What EXACT Kind of Toad is Toad? - RWS Research #5

[@Charmaster04]

12:44 More exciting? MORE EXCITING? You think a deep dive into every toad brake van in British history wasn't EXCITING?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

😀

[@UsefulEngine11]

This is an interesting video. It's funny because the Wooden Railway model of Toad has a 16 Jons on it and I never understood what that meant. Of course that's unrelated but still it's nice to know that there's a possibility of the real life Toad out there. Keep up the good work man.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers!

[@hartleymartin]

@@UsefulEngine11 Because Toad's TV Series model is based on a diagram AA2 16 ton Brake Van.

[@JBTEvans]

Excellent research! Never knew there were centre Toad brake vans or fully enclosed ones especially for Severn Tunnel! Thanks so much!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thank you!

[@tobys_transport_videos]

WOW!!! You have gone to a LOT of trouble here, just for a Toad van! I look forward to you finding out more about him, as well as Oliver and Isabelle.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thank you so much!

[@joshuaW5621]

I was just on my way to college when this streamed. It’s great to see this series again. I can’t wait for the next part.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Really glad you liked it!

[@SeanConnick-t9f]

So happy you are back! These research videos are brilliant!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Glad you enjoy them!

[@lukewolsey]

Really good to have these videos back. The music in the background is so relaxing too.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers, glad you like it 😀

[@benscott8782]

That was a brilliant show of Research! I never even realized there were so many types of GWR Toad Brakevans back then! As for the Oliver & Isabel Episodes, I'm already looking forward to seeing them eventually!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers man :)

[@EmpoweredbySteam7]

Won't be awake for the premiere but will tune in as soon as I wake up!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Hope you like it!

[@EmpoweredbySteam7]

@sodorislandmodels6332 I did! Great to see someone tackle Toad's basis. Whenever you do the Duck video, do you mind mentioning the chances of Duck having been built at Swindon, seeing as he and City of Truro had that conversation about Swindon fashion?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I will get on to Duck soon I hope, but he's 100% Swindon :)

[@EmpoweredbySteam7]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 I have an idea of which engine he might be then :)

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Great!

[@6allmotivepowers363]

He's back! Can't wait for the rest of the Little Western crew! I think one thing's for certain about Oliver - the real 1436 was withdrawn and scrapped WAY too early to realistically be him; I feel like he has to have been one of the few withdrawn in '64. Also, whenever you get to Duck, I'd be curious to know which 57xx's if any worked in both London and Wales during their career.

[@rhyusbrand8311]

The IoS book says that’s probably not his number, and he also mentions this in the video.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah he's not 1436, I'll get into that in his own video though :) Why Wles for duck?

[@6allmotivepowers363]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Because from what I understand, the real 5741 only ever worked in Wales and was never allocated to Paddington.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That's correct

[@trainboy04asmallfrye20]

Oliver is 1420

[@lukechristmas3951]

I never would have guessed that Toad would also be subject to a false identity like Oliver, Duck or Diesel. I found this very informative as I never knew there were so many different classes of Toad brake vans. Hey, American so I only can find so much on British rolling stock through the internet and pre-1970s out of print railway books are hard to come by. I think the biggest remarkable fact is that Toad had to have been built during the early years of WWII meaning he would be the youngest Steam Era member built on the Little Western and that makes scene why he refers to everyone with the title of "Mister."

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Glad you got a lot out of it 🙂

[@firstnamlastnam2141]

10:24 Unless he was repainted and I just forgot, does this mean Toad isn't actually grey?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

He was dark grey during gwr times, bauxite under br, and then back to gwr grey on Sodor :)

[@Mr.C_the_Artist]

No, he was painted BR Bruxite because he was vacuum fitted in the transition to br, unless you mean he wouldn't have been grey during The escape story, but before BR and After we went to sodor he would have been GWR Grey

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yes :)

[@Mr.C_the_Artist]

Oh i didn't know you replied as well, sorry man but glad we both tried to help out, and i hope this helps Firstnamlastnam2141

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

No worries, we were within a minute of each other, ta 😁

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

Whatever other 57xx Duck could’ve been, imagine just before coming to Sodor since it was 1955 when the BR modernization plan had been announced several steam engines likely knew their time would be up soon (especially the shunters since diesel shunters were already around, likely why Duck would be suspicious of Diesel) so possibly the actual 5741 decided to give Duck their number plates to carry out their legacy when going to Sodor just in case they didn’t make it so they swapped numbers where Duck has carried the number 5741 ever since. As for Oliver, if he also wasn’t 1436 maybe he took on the number plates of the actual 1436 which was scrapped in 1958 so he wouldn’t get caught while escaping (like when someone wears fake glasses and moustache) imagine while just getting close to Sodor Oliver would’ve casually passed a diesel and greeted them who then causally greeted him back before realizing how there was word about a 14xx escaping scrap and the actual 1436 was scrapped years ago so the diesel caught him Isabel and Toad and put them out in the siding at Barrow (like when Brian was wearing a fake moustache and Stewie started beating him up in Family Guy), I know Oliver simply ran out of coal at Barrow Yard but still.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Nice ideas!

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Imagine if while still on BR Oliver got into fights with other diesels either sometimes winning or losing against say Spamcan where the latter assaulted him really hard (for as verbally brutal as Spamcan along with Class 40 and Old Stuck Up have been shown to be they could also be quite physically brutal aggressive and violent though Class 40 maybe not as much since he seems a bit more quieter cool headed and composed)

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Tbh I don't know if any of those would have been near oliver but I like the idea of them arguing haha

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Bear’s class did work in the Western Region and Spamcan said they had the same controller so they could’ve operated in the same area which got me thinking Oliver could’ve easily ran into both. Donald and Douglas could’ve also possibly gotten into fights with diesels in Scotland and maybe Duck also got in fights with some diesel shunters before coming to Sodor though I don’t think him and Diesel ever met especially since you determined he likely worked in the North Eastern Region of British Railways.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah, true

[@jamesthomas5109]

I wish Gator ha more character development in the tv show, he's supposed to be from Colombia 🇨🇴 and he's a unique type of locomotive too. 😊

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Same, he was nice

[@Jetthehawk1994]

I have an idea for a character research video if you're up for it.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Sure, what's that?

[@Jetthehawk1994]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Molly. We know she's based on a d15/1, but we don't know which specific one. She has the specific features of the 15/1 such as sandboxes on her splashers and the Belphaire firebox but she does not have the extended smokebox.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I'm sure I'll look into her someday :)

[@hugothomas1199]

Okay so I looked at my Local steam railway website and they have a Toad AA21 ‘Toad’ 17391 built in 1939 at Swindon So could be a candidate could not be I’ll look into it

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Bristol harbour railway? Lovely!

[@hugothomas1199]

Ye

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Great stuff!

[@hugothomas1199]

Okay I’ve been looking about the Bristol harbour railway didn’t open until the 1970’s BUT the stock did nock about the western region the brake van in question could’ve been a railway that the good Reverend went to and was at the West Somerset railway (need to check) So could be as he did visit Bristol a few times

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That's so cool

[@Brony2T]

Friendship Express? (Nah that's just a generic train to transport the main characters along)

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

😁

[@Brony2T]

I'm just joking about the next research (which I forgot that you have plenty planned already)

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah I got loads haha

[@geocachingwomble]

Thank you for this video does this mean the Oliver video will be coming soon also. Isobel might be interesting. I get the feeling Oliver and toad escaped together and were old friends at the time when they did

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yes it does :)

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

They likely didn’t work with each other since the 1400s were passenger tanks but Toad was possibly one of some rolling stock allocated near the same place as Oliver at some point and they grew a strong bond, or maybe Oliver just so happened to meet Toad before or during his escape to Sodor where he was also withdrawn or about to be feeling bad for him so decided to take him along with Isabel as well (like in Sodor The Early Years).

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah could be :)

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

After Oliver’s arrival, it’s definitely possible Sir Charles Topham Hatt II would’ve been trying to get more steam engines to save and there were still a number of steam engines working on BR from late 1967-mid 1968 so maybe he could’ve acquired the likes of another Black 5 like Henry, a Standard 5MT, a 9F (where Murdoch could come into play in the RWS), and I could also see it he’d think about getting an 8F too but with WildnorWester’s Peter stored in Ballahoo Tunnel we could have him easily conveniently found there earlier and come into service. Sir Charles wasn’t kidding when he said steam engines were rare and hard to find since before late 1967, lots of engines were already cut up before then by even just a few months after being withdrawn but again it’s definitely possible lots more steam engines would’ve tried escaping (how Emily Molly Neville Rosie Ryan Rebecca etc. could come into play) though at the same time I think in the RWS canon post-late 1967 STH II would’ve had the easiest time when looking for steam engines either those still in service on BR by the end, some still in scrapyards yet to be cut up, or industrial engines.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yes, definitely a chance for more steam engines after Oliver is rescued!

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

Gotta wonder why Sir Charles wasn’t getting more steam engines during the earlier 1960s before Oliver’s arrival since that would’ve been the perfect time to start saving some with steam really starting to end then; it’s possible before 1967 he didn’t know if steam would actually end on Sodor so he didn’t want to risk much at the possibility of a new rescued steam engine ending up getting scrapped anyways but it was only by 1967 it was officially decided steam would still carry on for the North Western Region. Plus it could also be possible he didn’t want to interfere too much with BR and steam on The Mainland after the whole fiasco with Donald and Douglas in 1959 that possibly didn’t have much trust in him after that.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Had Wilbert kept writing I think there would have been more rescues/other steam engines introduced but I guess we'll never know!

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Well in the TIOS book it’s said there were 80 engines operating on the NWR (private and BR too) so it’s definitely possible some would be steam engines

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

My thoughts exactly

[@Mr.C_the_Artist]

Could you try to do an video on which locomotive gordon is? Like I don't like the idea of him being the prototype since that was great northern, and awdry did say the books tend to be inaccurate

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah I'll be doing Gordon :)

[@Mr.C_the_Artist]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 cool

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

🙂

[@kristiancutler6299]

Could you do more of these? Maybe the next will be Pug?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I'll be doing loads more of these! Next won't be Pug, but I really want to look into them, so someday 🙂

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

Isn't Toad GWR №56831 as all of his merch and model have that exact number?

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

Plus, GWR 56831 looks a lot how like you described what exact type of brake van Toad is. But in its only picture, it makes the illusions that its chimney isn't offset, but it is.

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

Also, Awdry would have told the crew of the TV series what exact number Toad is.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Nope, 56831 is a different design of brake van to toad - they look similar but the video details how they're different. It's not just the chimney position, but it's a good piece of evidence. The model used in the show isn't the correct basis for toad, nor is it the correct basis for the real 56831, but it looked good enough on the show for sure. There are plenty of things the TV Series made up that aren't in the books and toads number seems to be just that, there's no reason to think Wilbert told them that number. However, as with Duck and Oliver wearing fake numbers, there is no reason toad can't wear 56831 on Sodor, it just wouldn't have been the number he was built with

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Well it does make sense, but these fake numbers are starting to become a tad bit annoying.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

It's just Duck and Oliver, isn't it?

[@Damon_Drawings]

YES TS BACK

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

😁

[@Veggietalesfan2]

Alright. While you're on the research of Isabel and Oliver, can you do research on Emily and Murdoch?

[@gamerfan8445]

One problem with Murdoch, and Emily, both of their classes didn’t really change as much.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

What do you want to know about them?

[@Veggietalesfan2]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 I want to know what engines they are. Not their basis, their numbers.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I certainly want to look into tv series characters, but as there are no dates they arrived on Sodor or any real backstory for them in the show finding a likely number for them would be hard

[@gamerfan8445]

@@Veggietalesfan2 you realize that basically impossible