What Was Oliver's REAL Number? - RWS Research #6

[@TheUnluckyTug_official]

INCREDIBLE research here!

[@LazyEli5214]

Yoooo no way. Lol What's up Nic?

[@Joshsuevic]

Hi tug

[@ketelieappolon3617]

Hello Tug

[@AndrewtheLNERA1]

indeed. sodor island models has done some amazing research, also, happy 100k subs tug :D

[@cezarmihai5137]

Hello tug

[@_crankster]

The ammount of research which goes into these episodes is truly inspiring.

[@Baltic115]

I agree

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks guys

[@rhysdavies4615]

So glad I took those photos of the commentary for the Ffarquhar Branch (especially that bit about the Chalford Railcar) and shared them around - I'm really chuffed to have helped make this possible! Great Work SiM!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks mate!!

[@MrNoUsername]

Oh you took that photo? Do you have any more photos of the commentary?

[@lukechristmas3951]

I learn so much from this series! I would have never thought to use the crest, liveries and even boiler to be clues on what engine was Oliver before Escape. Neither would I have for the illustrations either and that includes the timeline. Goes to show how detail-oriented Awdry was. He had good reason to be a stickler because he hid so much in plain sight and most of us were none the wiser. The problem I now realize I had with all of the forms of Escape and the pre-Escape stories is that it felt like it took pace within a matter of weeks. Learning that Oliver could've have spent MONTHS hiding in one spot rather than just a two days and three nights makes so much more sense! I do love those small stories about No. 1453, having a wooden number plate after losing the original, and No. 1458 working alongside the real 1436 in the twilight days. Incredibly funny and leaving the option open on to which one is Oliver since Oliver's number is not legitimate.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers, I put all the evidence so oy can come to your own conclusion if I am right or not :)

[@LBSC70]

With this new information I'd like to think 1458 gave 1453 (Oliver) was given the 1436 number plates which the real engine was friends with 1458 which gave them to Oliver to help with the escape

[@eggsbenedictstudios]

That could work

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Very nice idea

[@46245RailVideos]

So Oliver would have technically made an unnamed cameo in the RWS with the Bincombe Tunnel incident being referenced, as early as book number 8?! Brilliantly researched video pal, and enjoyable to watch as always

[@rhysdavies4615]

It would be PERFECT if Oliver was the Bincombe Tunnel engine - and ties him into deeper RWS lore.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I think so, yeah!

[@6allmotivepowers363]

Just one small problem with that - this particular incident was in 1956, four years AFTER the "Leaves" incident would have taken place.

[@rhysdavies4615]

@@6allmotivepowers363 Dang - ah well, c'est la vie - Bincombe Tunnel was on a steep gradient, so I guess it had a history of these kind of events.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Ahh, interesting

[@EdwardsDayOut]

Your use of the smallest of details for your research is simply amazing and extremely commendable! Glad to see we now finally know just what Oliver’s life was like before sodor! Well done indeed!!!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks so much!

[@andydoms2001]

The kind of thing that this franchise inspires people to do like this, in-depth research of the locomotives characters are based on is very admirable! And it just keeps me baffling me why Mattel would rather stupidly distance itself from all that, for absolutely no good reason!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks so much!

[@phattrel6023]

Olivers Escape actually took 8 years to get to sodor, according to sif

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That was if Oliver was 1436 I think, and the Awdry's have said he wasn't

[@sodorssafetyrecord86]

Amazing research, your rws deep dives are always so engaging! That story of the Bulleid stalled in the tunnel could make a very interesting adaptation.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Glad you liked it :)

[@culdeefp4817]

I think its kinda funny that, if Oliver is an add-on member, his original number would’ve been the inverse of Duck’s current number

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Didn't think of that!

[@LBSC70]

20:56 Is this the general idea of what James' fireman was talking about when he mentioned bincombe Tunnel

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I think it may be

[@tobys_transport_videos]

Great stuff! You have put me onto more books that tell the stories behind the Reverend's stories! I've been a fan of these since I was about 10, in 1984. It is these stories that got this Aussie Railfan into British steam, and now I can't stop! 😍

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Great to hear!

[@NCNGRR05]

Incredible research done here, I don’t know half as much as the history of the locomotives I work on compared to the history you’ve been able to pull up from Oliver haha. Your narration is really relaxing and peaceful as well, you really should do some RWS book narrations. Good stuff, keep up the good work!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thank you very much!!

[@sashathetankengine]

The amount of research that went into this is astounding! You’ve really outdone yourself with this!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thank you!

[@6allmotivepowers363]

Awesome video - really cool to finally know Oliver's likely true identity! Can't wait for Duck!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks :)

[@fishpop]

19:12 That halt is gone now but its rail crossing still remains near Foxmoor School.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Nice :)

[@ConyeCannon-ExtraordinaryE2]

I love the research! I hope to see more in the future! Here are some options for future RWS Research! 1. Thomas 2. Edward 3. Mavis 4. Barry (once we get more info on him) 5. Duck 6. Possibly Daisy

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers, all of those are high up my list of engines to look at

[@danielsellers8707]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Daisy never had a BR number and Metro Cammell never made a single car version of the Class 101 / 102 in real life.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That's right

[@geocachingwomble]

@@danielsellers8707actually metrocammel made 15 first generation 1 car dmus. They were added to double coach bubble car units and refitted in the 1980’s and had their engines removed from them and they were used as trailer cars during the early 1980’s

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Uhhuh

[@christopherbellamy639]

I've just looked up the picture of Oliver and S.C.Ruffey in my Thomas the tank engine the complete collection book, and you are right. You can see 1420 slightly on Oliver's buffer beam

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

It's strange isn't it :)

[@MuhammadZakariyyaSandhu]

Love this video, for your next one you should try to find Pip & Emma's numbers.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks, yes I will look at the at some point :)

[@JBTEvans]

Fantastic research. I like that you researched that 1458 may have known 1436 and worn the plates as a tribute, very much outside the box thinking!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks :)

[@injunghugh9617]

Something interesting is that the Chalford Auto and the Golden Valley line served Stroud, where the Reverend lived from...1965 I believe to his passing in 1997. Although it was after the purge of 14xxs, what a coincidence. I'd also done some research on who Oliver exactly was, looks like I failed by disregarding the crest.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Research is interesting, I made many wrong turns in the past before I got to the most likely engine. Yes, he lived in the area :)

[@danielsellers8707]

As steam locomotives were still being used in the north west up to 1968 they could still obtain coal & water; even then diesels still had steam heating boilers into the 1970s so the water filling stations would still be around.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Still around sure, but harder to get access to

[@BrentSudric]

Ah so that was the Bitcombe Tunnel story referenced in 'Leaves'

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah I think so

[@6allmotivepowers363]

I'm not too sure about that. SIM, you said the event took place in 1956? I think Wilbert may have been referencing another previous incident, considering Gordon's book was published in '53.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Right

[@EC_Was_Here0]

Lovely video my man! I do believe the September arrival is more likely since Enterprising Engines takes place in late 1967 according to the Wiki, though that could be false. The Arlesdale Railway does open in Easter of 1967, which was in late March and may put both Small Railway Engines and Enterprising Engines too close to each other. But again, great video!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Okay

[@phattrel6023]

Actually it takes place around april 1967, i read it on sif ten years ago

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Wiki and sif may not be up to date, I'm not sure what was said on sif

[@ChrisMemphisBoy]

@@sodorislandmodels6332it might have been march 1967 since thats the same year D5701 was repainted in BR blue

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

D5701 didn't get br blue until later in the year

[@rhyusbrand8311]

21:07 HOL’ UP! Is that the incident which James’ fireman was talking about in _Leaves_ in Gordon the Big Engine? Edit: PS; this could give Oliver a cool character interaction with James if he ever found out about his incident.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah :D

[@MrNoUsername]

The timeline is a little skewed on the matter. The stories of Gordon the Big Engine happened around 1952-1953, while the incident with No.1453 happened in 1956. Unless the fireman is some secret time traveller, it could be that he was referring to another incident or it was Awdry blundering a little with the timeline. Our only clue is that it was specifically at Bincombe Tunnel

[@tonystrainsofrugby]

Great video, until around the 14 minute mark I was muttering "what about the top feed!"

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Haha!

[@midwesternperson5740]

As always, you fail to disappoint me.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers 😁

[@vincentmorris8431]

Fun fact, the irl lms 17646 was a Caledonian class 30. While Isabel seems punned of the bell name, that might attribute to Mirabel or even Clarabel...

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cool

[@eggsbenedictstudios]

I love this, great job, also I have an idea of which character should be next, why not do a video about Sixteen?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks, I will do sixteen at some point :)

[@eggsbenedictstudios]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 you're welcome

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

🙂

[@kingfisher1487]

I have a Hornby model of the 14xx and it is numbered 1436 with shed code 81C and the model is in BR green with the early crest

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Nice!

[@danielsellers8707]

The 14xx in "The Titfield Thunderbolt" is in wartime black livery...

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yes :)

[@cyberkidmfb]

Im going to lean towards 1458 because I don’t think Oliver would be as lighthearted as he was if he was in an accident that killed his driver. Also him working with the original 1436 helps with number plate theory. But great research ❤. 😊

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cool

[@geocachingwomble]

@sodorislandmodels thank you for finally completing your Oliver video as per my request. I made in your very early days. I am sorry that it took you so long to complete the research and held up your video making as a result. I would like to ask you if you are also able to cover toby and Mavis in more detail as very little information is known about both of them to this day.

[@geocachingwomble]

As both toby and Mavis being steam and diesel tram engines are quite unique in the grand scheme of things compared to what they started with. Also is it possible to determine which hst power cars and coaches combined into a set pip and Emma the hst set were? The books don’t specifically Cover the information. Sabrina

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Hey there, yes I want to do Toby and Mavis soon, pip and Emma are more tricky but still possible

[@geocachingwomble]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 thank you

[@geocachingwomble]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 can we have Annie, clarabel, henrietta as well please? Also I would love to find out which black 5 henry became post his rebuild after the flying kipper incident

[@danielsellers8707]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Not all HST power cars are identical! Pip & Emma can't be 43011 (scrapped after the Ladbroke Grove crash in 1999), 43019 (scrapped after the Ufton Nervet crash in 2004), 43030 or 140 (both scrapped after the Stonehaven incident in 2020) or 43173 (scrapped after the Southall crash in 1997). I had a Hornby model of 43011 as a child.

[@LucaandThomasProductions]

I love your content and work keep it up ☺️👍

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks :)

[@danielsellers8707]

Although Toad's number isn't mentioned, I imagine him being at Gloucester at the time Oliver was withdrawn.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah I'll be looking into that in my little western final video, after I have put out my duck research 🙂

[@Jayhsia1215]

Perfect research

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers!

[@jaanshersaeed4541]

Didn’t realize D5701 was only repainted BR Rail Blue by 1967 and just assumed it would be in 1965 when it came out though since it was allocated to Carlisle Upperby by 1965 surely Oliver would be somewhere on the last leg of his journey while hiding on the old quarry branch very close to Sodor likely around the North West of England part of the West Coast Main Line or Furness Line where D5701 along with a Class 08 shunter would be sent down to try and find the “mystery train”. Oliver’s journey would’ve definitely likely taken over the course of a few years with the long distance to Sodor, having to hide a lot in places for years and not just days only, needing to refuel with coal and water, and being only a small tank engine couldn’t just get there as fast as a big tender engine.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I think so yeah

[@henriquefernandesbreves6003]

Very impressive.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cheers!

[@davinsmith7543]

This is just purely my headcanon, but to simplify a few things, Oliver is 1436, and arrived in 1958 following his withdrawal from service earlier that year. I commend you for your research and building a strong case on why Oliver could either be 1453, 1458, or a fictional member entirely, but I just made 1436 Oliver's actual number since it gives other engines like Arthur, Barry, Murdoch, and Harvey time to arrive without their arrivals being squashed so close together.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Okay

[@railraider]

with the topfeed thing, i saw somone say online that it could have been another way to throw off BR with the cover, but not an actual topfeed

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah, maybe!

[@steamzilla95]

I like to think Oliver was the real 1436. 18. When Oliver was withdrawn in 1958, he ended up purchased by a private owner, until 9 year later: he died of lung cancer resulting Oliver to escape to Sodor.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Okay

[@gregoryandrews4956]

I always had the theory that Oliver is the real 1436, but his crew hid the number plates inside Isobel's guard/luggage compartment and stored as many sacks of coal inside Toad's guards compartment as they could possibly fit/was needed for the journey to Sodor but used slightly more coal than anticipated to start Oliver for the various legs of the journey and ended up going as far to Barrow-in-Furness and used up the remaining lumps of coal to grab Douglas's attention shortly he arrived at Barrow yard and I support your theory that they were at a rarely visited area of the yard. When Douglas arrived in the early Morning, fate was on Oliver's, Isobel's, Toad's, and Oliver' crews side.

[@fishpop]

5:00 Gloucester!? I LIVE IN THAT REGION 8D

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Cool 🙂

[@watershipfalls5520]

So when are you doing the AutoCoaches and Duck?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Hopefully have autocoaches up today! And duck maybe by Christmas?

[@lukewolsey]

Ha love the premier time!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

😁

[@Jetthehawk1994]

You made a slight error with the timeline. The events of Enterprising Engines take place in 1967 as Bear was purchased by the NWR the same year. And British Railways wasn't formed until 1948 so Oliver wouldn't have received BR black until at least that year. Yet you said 1946.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Ahh, checked my script and I didn't write that so must have misspoken and missed it :)

[@harrishyatt6283]

i wonder what oliver's life was like before the diesel invasion

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Any more I find I will put out 🙂

[@danielsellers8707]

As Oliver disliked diesels, do you think he could have met Bear (D7101) on the mainland before coming to Sodor. I imagine Glory (Diesel 10) was one of the diesels who tried to stop Oliver's escape.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That's interesting, yes he could have met bear but there wasn't a long time they were around together

[@danielsellers8707]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Yes because as the last built Hymek he would have been built in 1964, the year Oliver was withdrawn. I know the Hymeks visited Gloucester.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That's right

[@BDAThomas]

Great research. I think Duck could be next. The real 5741 never worked at Paddington. (I know you knew that; just saying)

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Thanks. Duck is coming but will not be the very next research video

[@danielsellers8707]

As D3236 spent most of its BR working life in Hull, the 08 in the Enterprising Engines can't be Diesel!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

True

[@awesome-xk8vj]

Can your next research episode be about Duck I really want to know which 5700 Duck is.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Coming soon, but it won't be my next research video :)

[@awesome-xk8vj]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 Alright.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

🙂

[@geocachingwomble]

Finally Oliver and which engine he was originally

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yep!

[@geocachingwomble]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 thank you. I really enjoy your history videos on the railway series. I have plenty of ideas for upcoming videos for you

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Great :)

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

Hold on! There's no D7101 in real life? Then why are companies like Hornby making Hymeks with that very number?!

[@aceproductions43]

really?

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Do they?

[@TobyOliverHenryFan]

@@sodorislandmodels6332 I'm pretty sure. I mean, I know an O-scale company also had their Hymek be D7101.

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Oh wow, not heard of that

[@geocachingwomble]

There was one before it scrapped

[@Baconman_PlayzYt]

Wow 22 hours

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yeah

[@CaliforniaCoastlineProductions]

They were numbered 1400-1474

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

I know

[@scotturry7165]

Finally sorry I'm late

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Hope you like it!

[@CaliforniaCoastlineProductions]

Oliver is a real 14xx

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Yes that's my most likely possibility

[@phattrel6023]

1453

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

That's it

[@javielalvarez5459]

Could it be that Oliver took the number 1436 number on purpose to bamboozle the diesels to avoid being scrapped! Possible theory there!

[@sodorislandmodels6332]

Maybe!