What Happens if Women Start Dating Down?

Chris and William Costello discuss why female hypergamy appears to be on the decline but it’s not a good sign. Why are women dating down? Is female hypergamy really getting less intense? Why are successful women dating unsuccessful men?
#hypergamy #matingcrisis #evolutionarypsychology
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[@ChrisWillx]

Hello you beauties. Watch the full episode here - kzbin.info/www/bejne/lXmWi6iOoNGnqdU

[@ChronoNaut1000]

this is not a link to the full ep, unless youtube is playing with me

[@Alex-Bunin]

Hey Chris! Seems like the link is cycling back to this clip rather than the full episode.

[@sopark434]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/mpLCZqirhKh5sJo This is the full ep. : )

[@lawsen3719]

Chris you linked to this same video/clip.

[@RPRsChannel]

*_So odd that being rich isn't no.1 in male attributes anymore._*

[@jamesharlanjohnson6882]

Let's be clear, a a woman with a master's degree in the social sciences marrying a guy who works in the trades is not marrying down. He may not be a financial guy who works part-time as an Abercrombie & Fitch model, but America seems to uniquely devalue skilled trades. I am an eye surgeon who recently undertook a project to restore an old truck. I now have an immense respect for guys who work with stuff. I am reminded even years ago when President Obama in one of his speeches said he imagined a time when everybody could go to college. We do not need everyone going to college. Our society needs to value people working in the trades because you can have a bunch of phds but who's going to fix your air conditioning or repair your vehicle.

[@willb295]

I always thought the same thing. My next door neighbor comes from a very educated family and got his PhD from NYU in 18th century American History. All these decades later, he told me that if he had the chance to do it all over again he would become a plumber. A good way to gauge the value of something is to ask yourself what would happen if it suddenly disappeared. Would there be any notice of it? If our trades people were to suddenly disappear, the lights would go out everywhere, roads wouldn’t exist, buildings wouldn’t exist, the clothes on your back would disappear, and many of the consumer goods you treasure so much would also disappear. Instead of thinking of professions as being ranked on a hierarchy from superior to inferior, a better way to think of it is as an ecosystem where each worker occupies its ecological niche. A lion may be the apex predator of the African savannah, but best believe the world around him would crumble if the blades of grass beneath his feet were suddenly extinct.

[@sunnydlite-t8b]

You must not be getting it. Someone working a "trade" is considered "lower" than someone working some white collar job. Whether or not one is less than the other, what is PERCEIVED by woman to be better quality is what matters. Much like the saying, "The truth is whatever someone believes it is".

[@elizabethlebaron9545]

We need to appreciate and value all work including retail and service work. You may have a PhD but who is serving, cooking, cleaning and stocking your shelves? Who is driving your products cross country and moving them across seas? Who is farming your food and sewing your shoes together? Every job has value and contributes to society.

[@sandwich-breath]

In 1899, the well respected economist Thorstein Veblen published a book titled ‘The Theory of the Leisure Class’ in which he outlines how a college certificate is nothing more than a sign of excess wealth. This was in 1899, when higher education would have come at a fraction of the cost that it is today.

[@sacrilegeisrealworship409]

I would have liked the opportunity to go to college. I didn't because I was homeless and had to work 3 jobs. I tried to go but couldn't afford. I am a skilled trades person. But I would have liked the same opportunities the rich kids had. And I refused to join the military to kill Iraqis. I didn't know them. I got more beef wit our own govt than theirs. I know the Bush clan started that war to sell arms. I'm not fucking stupid. It was beyond obvious. I would join the forces today, but now I'm old. Stuck in my trade. Which pays well. My Euro cousins all went to university for free. They live easier lives. They won't break their bodies to pay their bills

[@Rhino11111111]

When I was a kid it was rare for a kid in my class to have parents separated but now when I pick my kids up from school it’s almost 50/50 it’s sad thing to see.

[@barmouthbridge8772]

my kids got teased for having monogamous married parents. same colour too got them more demerits.

[@elizabethroberts8270]

In my area it is rare to have married parents

[@joejoejoejoejoejoe4391]

A relation was a teacher from around 1970 to 2010, he said he could guarantee that a troublesome child would have a single mother ( on parents evening ).

[@bettycooper369]

My cousin is a teacher and told me there are throuples/open relationships among both kids parents and a teacher.

[@proudatheist2042]

@@bettycooper369 OMG! As a former teacher, I can't imagine ever getting into a sexual relationship with a child's parent! That transgresses professional ethics, too!

[@jichaelmorgan3796]

Masculinity is basically like rocket fuel. It needs to be properly contained, harnessed, and directed. If not, it can be a destructive force for chaos. If it is repressed it will be a self-destructive internal force leading to all kinds of personal problems like depression and addictions. The best way to learn to harness masculinity is to learn it from a healthy masculine father figure.

[@leonaj.5835]

Not everyone can have Khabib as their dad. Maybe there should be training camps set up by men like Jocko to make these simps grow a pair.

[@joshboston2323]

hahah okay. Honestly, I find this a bit too over-analytical. Just be a good person and don't be a creep.

[@markm0000]

You are right.

[@clownhands]

I read this in Jordan Peterson’s voice

[@keylanoslokj1806]

Good luck finding that today

[@Brass_Heathen]

Hypergamy is not in decline... their options are in decline.

[@whynonbelieversareidiots8543]

100%

[@mutsamaks7379]

You nailed it

[@Abcabc-rg1mq]

@Souven Tudu less men go to college than women.

[@QueerdoLoc]

INCEL wins again

[@TNJ-gn2gv]

​@@Abcabc-rg1mq making men undesirable, right?

[@japethspeaketh7034]

My God, the absolute state of modern relationships. God help those new generation of children being raised by their miserable parent.

[@joaquin67]

You’re the first comment to recognize future children and their parents. It’s already happening, a mother having several children with different fathers and after the women get to a certain age they’re left without a man

[@elinope4745]

@@joaquin67 There are people who love to give children all the love and attention they could ever want. The future won't find such people to be so horrible as they are framed in today's highly censored Overton Window.

[@stevenclouds]

You mean Single Mother?

[@barmouthbridge8772]

ciserable

[@joshKozak]

Thank you.

[@MrBananajoePL]

"As hypergamy is in decline, female infidelity goes up". Guys, if you ever have the inkling of a feeling that your partner settled/dated down for you. Run, RUN LIKE THE WIND!!!

[@zabumbaman1828]

Truth has been spoken here.

[@m.d4375]

The issue I suppose is that if you don't meet the criteria for the ideal man: Good looking, tall, wealthy/successful, intelligent, charismatic, funny, emotionally unreactive, immensely confident, fearless, I can go on and on then there will always be men who are 'higher' than you. In that sense the only way you have a woman who isn't dating down is by getting a woman on your same level or below you, which many people don't want to do, but that's life.

[@yol_n]

I dont know man. Doesn't everyone settle down? Wouldnt women prefer marrying the top 1%?

[@JT-rx1eo]

Hypergamy is not going down. SOME female behavior COUNTER to hypergamy may be rising, but hypergamy is an innate evolved biological/psychological instinct. The instinctual pressure is still as strong as ever.

[@williamlevy6964]

You're always number 2 or below in her eyes. Their celebrity fantasies are number 1. Don't marry them. She never wanted you. She settled for you. So don't hang out with them or get to know then. Let them chase their celebrities by themselves.

[@davidpetersen3778]

My grandmother told me a man of quality needs to be loving, loyal and dependable. Money is a bonus. And that's from a woman who grew uo during the Great Depression. She also said a man with money who treats you like crap, is still a piece of crap. When they started dating my grandfather made less money than she did. She and her sister's ran a beauty salon. She also said it helps that he is really handy.

[@dan7359]

I am just glad I was depressed and anxious in my 20s and got into Buddhist Philosophy for 10+ years and have a balance stability and happiness of mind to the point where I can enjoy a relationship with a woman but don’t require one at all. Trying to gain happiness from the current state of relationships in this society and dynamics, good luck.

[@Wong-Jack-Man]

We think attaining things will bring us happiness and contentment whether it’s relationships or material goods. Contentment comes from understanding self, higher sense of awareness and control of self.

[@zeno2501]

Good for you. I have done the same. I might enjoy a relationship, but I enjoy life already. Happiness is now. Peace is irreplaceable.

[@daydreamer4855]

🙌🏻

[@PolishBehemoth]

Good luck = fuck that

[@chanze555]

Fuck that, I'm a fighter and don't have to take this crap. I focused on school, landed a sweet remote job, and keeping my ass in the Philippines now. From here on out, i'm only staying in true patriarchy's where women are humble and know their place.

[@ClaraBowInThisLight]

I think a lot of the problems with modern dating is people don’t know what they actually want in a long term relationship and are led into something based solely on physical attraction for as long as that feeling of lust is there. Obviously you want a partner you find attractive but when looking for a husband you should be looking for the kind of man you’d want your son to grow up to be and vice versa if you’re looking for a wife. A long term relationship or marriage should be centered around love, mutual respect and emotional support. It has to be a give-give situation and if one partner isn’t willing to take care of the other, the relationship will crumble. Most of your daily needs (someone to gossip with, someone who loves the same music as you, someone to help you heal) can be outsourced to different friends or a good therapist. Don’t put all your needs on one person and be sad if they don’t fulfill them. Our expectations will crush us in the end. If you’ve got someone who has your back as much as you have theirs and is willing to work through things with you, never let them go.

[@bryanhawkins9418]

I’d agree with you on everything except outsourcing your faith. If you and your mate have different faiths it will make raising your kids difficult. And I’m not sure about other faiths but Christianity forbids it.

[@nauxsi]

Yup totally agree. Guys look confused because they don't know what's important to them.

[@SweatyFatGuy]

nah, the girls just don't realize that flipping through the channels isn't going to help them. They always think they can do better, and having watched girls for the last 40 years I have been 'dating' or married, they usually trade off good men for dregs. They also think they DESERVE the absolute best men, rather than men who are closer to their own level.. e.g. fat chicks wanting the top men and thinking they deserve them. Most men were culled in the past, war, disease, accidents, etc. Now we have millions of men who would have otherwise been zeroed out that can't get laid. They address it in the video. Just a worldwide population crash, followed by a huge number of conflicts. You guys under 30 will get to enjoy it the most, those of us above 50 had the good years. Y'all are screwed.

[@arhabersham]

This should be pinned as top comment😃! I don’t think that faith can be outsourceable (because values really matter) but other than that, there is so much wisdom here❤. Thanks for sharing 🙏🏾

[@blantant]

Well said

[@DaHobbitification]

Nobody talking about how impressive the interviewee is as a talker. He get entangled a bit at one time, but very good articulation and very knowledgeable. Maybe a bit of working on his confidence, but im impressed.

[@TrippyLiberty]

Hypergamy is in decline, Only in the sense that it's being satisfied through stable marriage less frequently. Female infidelity, divorce, perpetual singleness, etc. are all still the result of the hypergamous instinct

[@freedomdude5420]

Instinct you say that’s interesting huh that’s like saying we should act violent as men and you wonder why, I think any woman who goes and thinks through hypergamy is an idiot and I’m not talking about just bimbos either that or the bimbos need to be reminded as well. I guarantee you they’re not thinking in the frontal lobe.

[@ineedhoez]

No, they're just a result of men refusing to increase their status in order to attract women. Men refused to evolve. You can't raise a family with the average salary. You damn sure can't buy a house. Women have always worked. Now they have to work. You can't put in 40 hours, come home and expect your partner to cook grandma take care of the kids and make you dinner, after she's been at work for 40 hours too.

[@darbyohara]

It’s NOT on the decline. It’s stronger than ever due to the internet making the dating pool world wide

[@umichgal1]

No one owes anyone sex or companionship. If you’re a crappy person with nothing to offer, then don’t be surprised if you can’t attract a good mate. The human race cannot survive from men getting pity sex.

[@dadwisdom25]

As an immigrant who came to the UK 17 years ago from Poland, I have seen countless Polish couples divorce and spilt up. Funny thing I've noticed over almost two decades is that Polish women almost always mate up after a break up from their Polish partner. What I mean is they never dated another Polish guy and almost always ended up with a British guy. Presumably because of status and earning potential of someone who was born in this country. Often, a British man might have his own house, while a Polish immigrant will be forever renting and so on. Dating after break up is not the same for Polish men. Their status and often inability to speak English on a good enough level to "woo" an English girl, put them at disadvantage on the dating market. Both, the fact that Polish women date up and that English women refuse to date down prove that women don't want to date down or that it will tak a very long time for it to change. This is just my observation

[@l.r.8662]

Nothing new under the sun. My Italian grandfather was sent to the war in Greece, stayed prisoner for years there. Prisoner of the german army and after the english army. The english solders were for him the worst human beings he never had to deal with to survive. They injured him strongly, and he had to deal all his life with a weak health, due to them. He had a cousin, who was in her mind a sister, she decided to marry with an english solder, when he was still prisoner in Greece. They have never talked anymore during all their life. He was never eager to accept such betrayal from his "sister". He died in France 25 years ago, and never give her his pardon. I notice the same in germany, a lot of foreigners want to be in couple with a german guy, despite the fact that they complain all about the german mentality, but they have all always found the exception. But it often end with a divorce, though, because the young western german guy are emotionally handicapped and very often incapable of any typ of empathy. They feel too wealthy and are too entitled to consider any other human being as their egal in humanity.

[@di3486]

This happens also a lot with Latin Americans that move overseas.

[@dadwisdom25]

@di3486 I can speak to that as well. My wife is Brazilian and, the majority of her female friends are married British or European men, many of whom are well off.

[@sofypi7493]

“and never give her his pardon.” as if she ever need ed it, in HIS modo she was a sister for gel he was most likely just one of her 12 cousin. It was all in his head this apparent respect that she owed him. Delusional italian man just like they are now

[@amy7sara7nina]

As someone who loves her whole life in Germany I can just agree. 100% right about the Germans, I just ask myself are they so emotional handicaped ? German women as well though …

[@99drums54]

The thumbnail is showing HYPERGAMY, Shrek is a STUD

[@sthp9214]

Exactly. And he owns land, his own house, could protect and provide, and is emotionally intelligent. Shrek is a wrong thumbnail to use.

[@dances_with_incels]

And very territorial. I don't even want him to ask me what am I doing in his swamp.

[@Charlie-br8wp]

Came here to say this

[@jamesholster5323]

"Handsome" is one of women's many (and growing) requirements

[@Meelan72]

I have a PhD and my husband is a taxi driver. I couldn’t be happier and more proud of him. Everyday I’m grateful for how amazing and caring he is. Wouldn’t change a thing about him or our lives.

[@xXAquarangXx]

That's cool but I wonder if there is physical attraction towards him. No hate but curious

[@antalpoti]

You know you're one of a kind, right? I know plenty of couples and there is only one which is remotely similar to your situation: a school teacher and a bricklayer.

[@omnomnom4356]

Similar situation, I have a science degree and am in a management position, husband is a trades man. 😊

[@blondscientist]

Similar situation here. For us the "secret" is we are both confident in what we are and do. Nobody is trying to impress anybody and no one is dependent on anybody. It helps we are both immigrants so our respective families' opinions and meddling is kept at bay (aka 5 and 20 thousands km away to be precise, lol). Someone made a similar comment about not being influenced by the community/society.@ Areeb - physical attraction is fleeting for everyone I imagine. Once you get stable and have kids and start worrying how you are going to pay bills with the increasing gas prices, you want a partner not an object of desire. Mature people give it less importance as life progresses and life goals become important. It's a factor for young people in my estimation. My cheating womanizer father showed me really well what not to look for in a man. I will tell you that much. And with all that said - the old adage remains true in my case - there is nothing more attractive than a man on a mission - and the mission does not need to be a "well paid" one but one I too believe in e.g. being a male role model to marginalized boys, being supportive and helpful to both of our families (he/we took my brother in to live with us for a period of time for example), etc.

[@davidclayton.1511]

@@antalpoti my friend is a gangster. His girlfriend is a lawyer(eastern European) He brings home the $$. You have a Slavic name, so it's maybe fair to assume the couple you mentioned live there too. Also, a teacher is not a high paying job.

[@ChrisHolman]

Hypergamy is not in decline and infidelity is part of hypergamy.

[@nattypatty3667]

Hypergamy is on the decline to a certain degree. 40% of women are now the bread winner in their relationship. Some of these women are not happy they are the bread winner, but if hypergamy was still full blown still the percentage of women being bread winners would be much lower. The problem with women having equal opportunity is they will earn as much if not more in many cases. Nature never intended on women having this amount of opportunity to attain resources. Historically, only the strongest and fittest did, and it was never women. Women are going to have to overrides their biological desire because the reality is they're unlikely to find a partner who earns significantly more. Conversely, men are having to accept their partner is probably not going to be young and pure. The dating marketplace is not optimal for each gender's mating goals.

[@kingoverlord8503]

I agree infidelity is also part of hypergamy they just have the beta bucks on the side while searching for the alpha

[@musse5448]

@@nattypatty3667 Should she take a paycut to make her poor husband feel better? Maybe he should step up work harder. Men can´t say that they want the dominant role and respect without the work. You won´t get that by masturbating and feeling sorry for yourself

[@Kirby5413]

@@nattypatty3667 Wait? So what Chris Williamson is saying is true? That men my age (27) might have to date and marry women older than us now?

[@sisigs4820]

I agree hypergamy is actually a big reason why we are here now in the first place. Everyone's trying to chase that 1% of the population and that hurts society more than people would like to admit. Social Media has destroyed people's standards and now everyone is chasing super models and don't want to settle for anything else.

[@WanderingHusk]

I think that most men would rather be alone than waste his time and resources on a woman who will cheat on him. Especially when all of the legal apparatus is geared against men. I think the game is lost. Whoever started this shit has won, they've fucked men and women for good. And they didn't even have the decency of giving us a reach around.

[@daydreamer4855]

So it's either being alone or being cheated on since ALL women are cheaters? More men cheat.

[@WanderingHusk]

@@daydreamer4855 Wow, way to read what you wanted to read. Typical woman.

[@ineedhoez]

Well, how do you think women feel? Getting cheated on in having to stay was literally the expectation.

[@mvs9122]

I agree but i think women are begining to wise up to the fact that they got screwed. They work hard, go through bunch of men but can't hold on to one, can't have children or have to raise them by themselves. Femenism was the worst deal for women.

[@jones2277]

that's just what men tell themselves when they can't get the attention of the women they want.

[@truxpratt3306]

His definition of hypergamy is a revisionist one. It's not mate selection once; it's continued evaluation and selection of mates for a better future as opportunities arise.

[@selohcin]

He's using the academic definition of hypergamy from evolutionary biology. He's not revising anything.

[@anuragpradhan7500]

​@@selohcinDude academia does revise definitions, a lot. They have redefined what is 1 kg, at least 4 fucking times. The definition of 1m has changed at least once. I can only quote these because I am a STEM graduate. Surely they must have had some revision done too. The only difference is that politics hasn't proliferated STEM as much as it has done in the humanities

[@BlackFoxInc]

What happens if a woman starts dating on her actual level? Families...

[@dannydeboer8821]

Amazing!

[@BlackFoxInc]

@@dannydeboer8821 mind blown, right? Read it in a government funded research the other day.

[@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986]

@@BlackFoxInc taxpayer money being well spent on groundbreaking research then

[@caralho5237]

What about dating your own family?

[@BlackFoxInc]

@@caralho5237 dude, get the hell out of Alabama...

[@consummatebachelor7327]

Social/Media is a major factor in this issue. Women, many with egos already running amuck, perceive themselves as all "tens" and "queens" as more-and-more low value men give them attention (Likes). Therefore they see nearly all men as 'below them', at least from a SMV perspective. Women WILL NOT date down, at least to their self-perceived value. Hypergamy, however we wish to define it, is too deeply ingrained in women's biological make-up to be ignored or overridden.

[@xkben90]

I’ve learned to despise the word Queen.

[@Cam-fs4jf]

Lizzo or whatever her name is?

[@Gothicc_senpai]

@@Lizxmichele no women dates down

[@deklares1]

@@Lizxmichele we dont need to ask you've been screaming it on chik tok

[@Esthie229]

This is so true

[@Carfalog]

The title says “dating down,” but the thumbnail CLEARLY shows dating up😂

[@ramozj6997]

Here in Australia women go after tradesmen ..Suits are seen as less mssculine . The tradie is seen as more masculine and makes alot of money . Here women talk about hot tradies and get bragging rights for scoring one .. The trades are seen as honourable work here .

[@Tyler_W]

That's probably going to happen at some point in the US too. With the breakdown of globalized systems, the US needs to build itself back up in order to sustain itself, and that process of bringing trades and manufacturing back home or closer to home to Mexico or Canada, in combination with more people finding college degrees more of a burden than they're worth, is probably going to result in an explosion of high value, well-paid blue collar work.

[@adaoraumeh4513]

@@Tyler_W You know damn well that the corporations will just turn to automation. If the companies lose cheap over-seas labor they'll jump to automation way before paying blue-collars more.

[@Nah-ah]

As an Aussie, I concur! My husband is a carpenter 👍🏽

[@K3r0411]

I think it depends on the people in the relationship. They might not mind their different status, but most people don’t live in a bubble. You have to be mature to withstand outside interference.

[@mrs.americanpie2079]

Fair point.

[@kaytwo_]

Shrek is not dating down. Dude had his own land, purpose, was the best fighter in the entire kingdom. And was feared by everyone. Fiona was just pretty and born into wealth lol

[@GS-pi6iz]

I mean, it really is not fair but pretty privilege could get it all.

[@user-mt2co8ip4u]

I can't believe you think a literal princess marrying a commoner isn't dating down. Being a good fighter doesn't make you a prince

[@kaytwo_]

@@user-mt2co8ip4u it doesn't but the best gladiator in a kingdom has far more respect then some kings son that did nothing but be born into his position. She married a self made king

[@paulwary]

Innate hypergamy really is a thing, but women are also influenced more than men by their parents, and by their peers, who may say “he’s not good enough for you”.

[@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986]

Women are well known to be most attracted to men their parents hate the most😆

[@enemyofthestatewearein7945]

Something I've frequently observed is that young women especially, can be fiercely competitive with their peers, in terms of having a good boyfriend (i.e. attractive, successful or ascendant) and they often compare theirs to others, perhaps because to a certain extent, their social status among female peers derives from it. Men are a bit different, because they have to build some level of social status (or at least show potential) before they can even get good women interested, and while guys may get a little admiration for securing a 'trophy' partner, this is pretty superficial and they are generally less judged for being with someone more ordinary.

[@Jesei1211]

This whole comment section is men saying women will cheat, women won’t settle with someone who’s not the 1%, etc. it’s all bs. They’re black pilling themselves. There are normal women out there who want to be in a healthy loving relationship. They just pull back to look for it cuz if bad experiences and constant bombarding of black pills

[@Napalm6b]

Effectively dating down means women would have to practice what they preach, and honestly evaluate men on their intrinsic qualities. It probably won't happen 😂

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

They will find that those men will have next to no intrinsic qualities

[@Napalm6b]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 I've known plenty of guys that are loyal, kind, hard working, and relatively intelligent who do service work like restaurants, grocery stores, or even call centers. They have personality and interesting hobbies but we know because they don't have status they are invisible in the dating world. You're full of it.

[@bluevelvet2]

@@Napalm6b Evolutionarily speaking men are valued based on their ability to provide. The issue is that now that women can work, it is more difficult for men to stand out based on this ability.

[@AliMacAzz]

Not only that, but professional women are becoming less attractive to a growing number of men….the traditional feminine qualities (kindness, compassion, modesty, etc.) are in short supply among (many) young women.

[@ineedhoez]

Men have none. That is the real problem. They have only been required to be protectors and providers. They cant provide and guns protect. They are utterly useless unless the bring something else to the table. They're not emotionally available. They don't wanna help with the domestic duties or child rearing. There is literally no benefit to a woman to engage in a relationship with a low value man. Women have been begging men to go to therapy, work on their trauma, be emotionally present, help share in the domestic duties and help raise the children. They have quite literally been begging for this for years. But the men don't see those things as valuable so they don't want to engage in it. The one thing that you could do to make yourself an attractive mate, outside of money, they just won't do.

[@joeswanson733]

3 options 1.) they mate down (very unlikely) 2.) they share a top quality fellow.. what determines top quality i'll leave it to you to fill in the blanks. 3.) they maintain their status quo - very likely

[@travis3430]

Check out David Haye (ex boxer) & his 2 lookers he's got going on. You'll see more of that probably

[@mrs.americanpie2079]

Dating for money and status as a woman makes sense especially if you are lower class to upper middle class. If you are going to have children you are going to rely more or completely on your husband for a time. No matter how high-flying your career if you are going to be a hands on mother (particularly of the attachment-parenting variety) you must shift a large part or even all of the time, attention and energy you gave your career onto your children. You'd be irresponsible to choose a father for your children that couldn't provide a decent home in a safe area and a reasonable standard of living. The higher the status of your husband the more people will think twice about mis-treating you and your children. Again, this is simply good sense. In the same way a man would be smart to consider if a prospective wife is generally patient and agreeable. You don't want someone with a hair trigger as the mother of your tiny helpless baby. It would be smart to consider if a prospective wife has healthy habits. You don't want a woman who is happy to live on doritos and soda to be the one growing your baby. It's also a good idea to pick an intelligent woman who enjoys mental stimulation and challenge, lest the mother of your children be eating doritos and watching reality tv instead of reading to your children and and taking them to the local children's museum. And on and on.

[@lightworker2956]

Thanks for the honesty.

[@psychotate3788]

Yea men don’t care about all that. It’s smart for men to pick a woman who is young, attractive and has good motherly qualities. All the other things you mention are a bonus but not required or necessary.

[@mrs.americanpie2079]

@@psychotate3788 ​ @Psycho In this comment I am including intelligence and health consciousness as qualities important in a mother. Since you think these are mere bonuses I'd be interested to read what attributes are required "motherly qualities."

[@irisdogma8174]

@@psychotate3788 Exactly. Caring, young, attractive, fun, healthy, and ideally some emotional maturity. Nothing else is important. Unless you are rich, then MAYBE also - wealthy family, or high status peer group. But education/job don't mean shit.

[@irisdogma8174]

@@mrs.americanpie2079 If you can impart intelligence to your child, there's no need for the mother to do so as well. Good health is obvious tho

[@christopherrivera1673]

A lot of them are already dating down. “Dating down”, hypergamy, and value is subjective. When that happens the husband is treated like Will Smith, Johnny Depp, Johnny Sins, or much worse (perhaps polyandry, thru deception or compliance). Those men are higher than their women on paper but the woman perceives herself to be worth as much or more, or able to attain/retain a similar or higher value man.

[@gyozop]

Today for a woman who is a 7, dating a guy wo is a 4 it is dating down because she wanted the no1.

[@bmg6107]

What happened to johnny sins

[@requiem-ph5xx]

@@bmg6107 lmao Jonny sins, what is this guy on about

[@granddefectus4602]

This is just proof that women can date literally anyone they want.

[@RhetoricalMuse]

Those are poor examples. The women in question are all mentally disorded in some way i.e. makes them abusive.

[@akjessicad]

I can't help but feel like some of these issues men/women experience stems from people overthinking themselves and self importance., As opposed to being fulfilled by helping others or making the world a better place.

[@tempuramonster]

Girl, your naivety is showing.

[@pianosonata5029]

"feel" Women always feel this and that...

[@akjessicad]

I think some girls are driven to be independent to avoid abusive marriages. To have a say. Money = Choices. Choice is not to blame though. How messed up is it when the male role models in your life seem to use/abuse women and abandon the whole family to start over with a new person, nevermind the lives they messed up.

[@akjessicad]

I feel slightly sexist but it seems it started with male selfishness, which led to female selfishness and big surprise the selfish aren't happy.

[@soniadeebee6391]

Optimism is an assets. I like your thinking.

[@johnjjarhead5721]

Mating up, Mating down, either way a woman is unhappy, happiness doesn't come from without, it comes from within.

[@Josh-dp6iu]

It seems like every day there is another reason for young people, particularly young men, to lose hope in regards to modern dating and the current dynamics at play. For me personally, I learn something new almost every week that makes it seem like finding a decent partner will be an impossible task. So for those in the same situation as me the only advise I can give is keep working hard, be optimistic, live in ignorant bliss, and try to stay young at heart.

[@musse5448]

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, go out there and find a woman. This is the problem with young, uneducated, unfit, lowearning men. Instead of working to better themself they blame the women who just want a partner of a respectble standard. Don´t be an incel Josh, you can do it.

[@Razor-gx2dq]

@@musse5448 I have no reason to try, for many years I have artificially conditioned mussel into believing that it can't or won't happen, therefore if the opportunity came to me I wouldn't take it.

[@musse5448]

@@Razor-gx2dq I respect your choices. But don't blame the women for not wanting you. You have yourself to blame! You have failed! Only you, no one else

[@sreyas7000]

@@musse5448 enough white knighting for today

[@musse5448]

@@sreyas7000 Don´t shoot the messenger

[@zeno2501]

We seem to have forgotten that children are the most important people. Children are the future, and children are innocent. The only way to safeguard our future is to do everything we possibly can to protect and educate and raise the healthiest children. That requires an unwavering sense of duty and sacrifice from adults. Sadly, modern adults are more interested in themselves and their Instagram following. The idea that why "won't somebody think of the children?" has been ridiculed for decades. But they're right, nobody is thinking of the children. So here we are today, while adults argue on TikTok about body counts and pay gaps, our families collapse and our children cut themselves. If our children are fucked, our future is fucked. The only solution to this problem is to prioritise children again. We've lost God.

[@danzjz3923]

Well if the children are [edit:get] fucked people go insane

[@the_moo000oon]

problem is in the payoffs. it makes more sense to be a mercenary right now than to care about the future of your community. we wont face the consequences of our actions, the next generation will

[@nauxsi]

We need people with character.

[@kknumber20]

You can’t raise children the way you should if you have them with someone you don’t love or who doesn’t love you. People are struggling to fall in love. Instead it’s lust and social agreements. We’ve lost love, another word for god.

[@y0gokvlt]

BASED, RED PILL-ed

[@lavienestpasunlongfleuvetr2559]

It may be the case that better-educated women are more likely to REPORT abuse, because they're more aware of it and they have more confidence and more resources to deal with it.

[@steph6109]

Poor women fill the domestic abuse shelter centres.

[@brandoniskewlig]

Yes because going to college helps you recognize what's abuse and what's not wtf are you saying??

[@Seamannon]

​@@steph6109Experiencing abuse and reporting abuse are very different statistics. Only a fraction of abuse gets reported. Most abuse happens without the result of official reports.

[@Brainjoy01]

@@steph6109 DV doesn’t discriminate against class, wealthy women will go stay with family or get another apartment

[@RR-xm9iu]

@@Brainjoy01 spot on. Dv shelters are a hell hole. Many women invite the bfs/husbands that batter them to the shelter

[@memastarful]

Just because someone doesn't see your value, doesn't mean you're valueless. Know your worth. You are precious in God's eyes. Don't allow hate or others with issues to tare you down. Press onward, heal and shine. You are cherishable even if you don't know it yet. I hope this speaks to whomever needs to hear this. Sending kindness and love ❤

[@ammolator]

That's actually really nice thing to say.

[@memastarful]

@@ammolator most welcome. I just hope it helps whoever needs it

[@ab-jc8nv]

Hey age is important?

[@BTCanti-scam]

😂

[@vklnew9824]

F*** all that, watch Wheat Waffles

[@vrajaram]

Chris, it would be great if you can share links to the research articles he alluded to.

[@csx6910]

Given the undesirability of many women today, I don't know if it's possible for them to 'date down'. Most are average at best but view themselves as being much greater than they are.

[@lightworker2956]

Yep. It's like: most guys today are like a 5/10 and women want at least a 7/10, which is sort of understandable in a vacuum. Most men today aren't really masculine or driven or have something going on in their life. However, most women today are like 3.5 / 10. And when 3.5 / 10 women demand 7/10 men, it becomes a bit ridiculous.

[@Grandmaster_Vic]

I am all for skilled trades. Having the skill to actually do a certain trade (to me atleast) is very rewarding and can do to someone’s confidence. Not so much in a sense of finances (don’t get me wrong you can make good money doing trades) but having the ability to know how to solve and fix society’s essentials like water, electricity, mechanical, IT, Nursing, wielding, etc. Feels good in a way where your efforts are really beneficial to society even if not a lot of people would thank you.

[@C783H]

I have a trade as a carpenter joiner and multiple diplomas and degree. My trade career was the much more complex and difficult of the two I have had. People who look down on trades have no idea. Yes there are some idiots in the trades, especially in the brickie and plastering trades. But come Carpentry, Electrical, Plumbing and a number of others. I don't think 90% of Bachelor or Master degree holders could hack these trades and that is the honest truth!

[@freedomfight1933]

Great video

[@Danishruyu1]

It’s definitely happening. I work in a lab where I have many decently attractive female coworkers making 6 figures while their husbands are working blue collared jobs making half that. I’ve had this conversation with an ex before, as long as a man can make a decent living above a threshold, there’ll be plenty of women that are happy with that - they’re looking for more than just money and status. Those are the kinda women you want. If you don’t have a college degree, learn a trade and you’ll still get it.

[@DatAsianGuy]

And how exactly do you know they are honest with you? People lie more often than you think, mate. the only plausible "easy" way to find out if it works out in the end, is how the relationship ends. and guess what, the folk you talk about... they probably still have years left to fuck it all up.

[@CordeliaWagner]

But collar workers often aren't as educated as people who studied. I have talked to many men, they consider me as looking attractive. A lot of them can't even speak proper german and have nothing interesting to say. They ask about trash TV and if I want children. Urgh. I get better along with guys who have higher education.

[@DatAsianGuy]

@@CordeliaWagner it sounds like you talk to literal trailer trash. What kind of men do you meet? Also your generalization of men who don't have a college/uni education is pretty fucking rude. Also why do you have a problem with them asking about your desire to have children? That's a pretty big deal to start a relationship for people. why do you seem annoyed at the question?

[@diehardernxgt2161]

If you dont mund me asking - How many of them have children?

[@ismt9390]

Exactly, i'm personally not that interested in how much money a man is making, but a man that has a stable job that he takes seriously shows that he has a bit of discipline and stability in his life. If a guy is affectionate, smart and we vibe well, i wouldn't care if i made more money than him.

[@jermaineflowers1538]

Women are NOT dating down. It's their own fault if they consider men on their level not good enough. Income is not a determining factor on the woman's side of the relationship and many of the determining factors like ability/willingness to cook, manage the home, be cooperative, and play her role without thinking she's a powerless slave, is missing. MEN are dating down because what men want is frowned on by today's women.

[@naviifra2374]

Its evolution just like how men look for a woman who earns less. Its not a fault thing

[@nattypatty3667]

Facts. Men like fit and healthy women. 75% of women are overweight. Most men are not getting what they biologically desire due the shortage of fit and healthy women.

[@irisdogma8174]

@@naviifra2374 There's no evolution that says that a woman who earns a lot, or has education has any more value in the dating marketplace. That's simply never been valued in women.

[@naviifra2374]

@@irisdogma8174 you’re agreeing with me

[@Trazynn]

@@naviifra2374 men aren't looking for women who earn less. It's simply not a relevant factor. If a chick is hot we'll date her if she's homeless or if she's a billionaire monarch.

[@baron_von_brunk]

Quick technical question: what's your camera model and lighting setup?

[@Melian07]

Has it occured to people who creat this kind of content that relationships need a compatibility of personalities, worldview, values, beliefs, common interests... these things are much more important than social class.

[@littlestav98]

Lack of traditional values are leading to serious problems

[@Kirby5413]

That's EXACTLY what the root of this problem stems from.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

The traditional 'values' was the problem

[@Kirby5413]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 Not really. Liberalism led to this by giving people too much freedom and inevitably turning people into feral animals in the long run.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

@@Kirby5413 You can never have too much freedom

[@joeoloughlin2245]

Great to watch Chris' journey over the years. He's become one of the best in the business.

[@darbyohara]

😂 no

[@parallaxview6770]

Best what ?

[@st0a]

Best at what?

[@darrenorubor2629]

Can you put links for the research ?

[@everything5797]

I dated down once.......I was miserable so I ended things instead of dragging it along

[@ssj3hi]

Blaming the incels again I see

[@dawnelder9046]

One of the best marriages I knew was a woman with a master degree married to a man with a high school degree. Married over 60 years. He was a wonderful husband and father.

[@emilyearl1858]

❤

[@samanthaporter6662]

Thank God I scored a real man when I was 18 and I am still with him 18 years later..... I can't imagine having to find a solid man in this age!!

[@cmo5807]

Plenty of decent men left but when women chose to not date down aka maybe dude is a bit uglier than her it takes most of the possible prospects out of the equation. It goes both ways these days its hard to find a decent woman these days that will not cheat or leave you because your lower than them either physically or your status. Women tend to date up thats the point of this video. But hey its great you found you a good man I aint hating just saying lol.

[@Christian---]

Let's just say the demand for good men isn't in the stars, most women looking for a "good man" means a simp who will pay their every expense while they go get railed on cuckbands permission and emotional support.

[@toddjohnson271]

There are plenty of solid guys out there. Female hypergamy is out of wack wanting a millionaire, tall, handsome man. Nothing else will do.

[@keylanoslokj1806]

But you do contemplate it due to hypergamy. You just know he is your ceiling at this point in your life

[@kompanjonac]

@@toddjohnson271 Most of them dont even deserve them. I mean just because you're hot doesnt mean you deserve someone who 's succesfull

[@alistairbest3622]

In the old days, during the Roman empire, low status men didn’t have right to have a wife or access to women, only high status men had access to women; it appears nowadays, the history comes around full circle, as many low status men have no choice but live in celibacy, yet high status men could be dating multiple women simultaneously.

[@cyph3r461]

Excellent concise breakdown

[@RPMentorTokyoChannel]

I wrote a short eBook on this subject and I actually sent it to Mr. Costello titled The "Where Have All the Good Men Gone" Hypothesis which details hypergyny (female-specific hypergamy) in relation to factors such as the gender-academic gaps we now find cross-culturally. What has been found for some years is that although women may date down in education (education hypogamy), they're still prioritizing men that earn a higher income than themselves (income hypergamy). Of course, even this group of men is limited, and therefore, other women will either have to engage in a completely hypogamous mating strategy, or, go without. In the event they go with the former, I think factors such as the corollaries to Briffaults Law will become more pronounced, and the relationship will not be a healthy one in that it will not be an environment conducive to raising children, but her resentment. In these cases, she may even elect to not have the man's children.

[@AliMacAzz]

I’ve seen this work both ways….there are some men who want nothing to do with high earning professional women….they see these women as unfeminine & not fit to be a good wife.

[@godkingoftoxicity7037]

I forgot about your channel since I got unsubscribed from all RP channels

[@lovejunkie490]

@@AliMacAzz it depends what you mean by « high earning women ». If we think about CEO of very big companies then maybe. These women don’t have children in general because unlike men , they can’t have both a family and a career, they have to sacrifice one of these two things. But if you are talking about middle position like manager for instance, many are married with kids.

[@davidlenz9902]

I truly believe that women are going to go without rather than engage in hypogamous relationships. If this was just a natural progression of our society, i could agree, but presently there is just too much resentment and bitterness in the air. Women feel aggrieved, despite becoming essentially fully liberated in regards to sexuality, and they are beginning to monetize their sexuality (IG, only fans, et al) without ever having to commit to the creation of a nuclear family. They could be lonely for the rest of their lives, but nothing could drag them back to the boring life of being a wife/mother to an average man, albeit honorable and respected man. Sadly, this is why hypergamy, where essentially all women are crowded at the top, is a vice for women.

[@James_36]

@@lovejunkie490 Yes that is true, hypergamy is false, it is just culturally some entitled women think it is acceptable to demand a certain lifestyle. In reality a lot of middle earning women are not trying to date up. How many women date across also and are more than happy to date across ways? Christ I dated my long term partner when I was unemployed, I only earn more than her due to my own drive that she could not have possibly foresaw. Hypergamy is so overblown

[@Imhotep.inwords]

OMFG, you guys are going to hyper-analyze your way into extinction. Stop over-analyzing what people you've never met may or may not be doing and live your f*cking life. And for you men out there who are worried about your dating prospects: Did you ask anyone out today? Do you even know what you want from a relationship? Do you even know what you want from yourself? Get off social media, go touch some grass and start taking some chances in your miserable lives. I guarantee you it'll do infinitely more for your life than this online circle-jerk that seems to be going-on on youtube.

[@Nah-ah]

I agree! Women have become test subjects and study cases in the Manosphere and RP community! Interesting times we live in

[@Imhotep.inwords]

@@Nah-ah Seriously! And the lack of self-awareness is astonishing. They don't realize that this sh*t is literally getting in their way.

[@Nah-ah]

@@Imhotep.inwords I think I’ve gone past that stage of being shocked at some of the comments… I just either roll my eyes or laugh! Even Chris mentioned it himself on his recent 500K subscription podcast, something along the lines of “women are not robots and I’ve met thousands of them while working as a club promoter” when asked what he thought about Red Pill in reference to female nature! I’m like, thanks man! About fkn time someone said something positive. Red Pill echo chambers will be their own downfall!

[@rohilthomson]

@@Nah-ah And the downfall of society, unless women are willing to get into relationships with men that are already engaged with 3-4 other women. Then we can go back to the 1500s.

[@Gothicc_senpai]

@@Nah-ah the problem is men are not meeting humble women anymore.

[@cap10newport95]

Weird thumbnail since Fiona is dating way up there

[@99drums54]

no cap

[@center1581]

RNS

[@crosses101]

I like your channel man👍🏾

[@RasKalevthesouljourner]

*Correction What would happen if women started dating on their own level?

[@garljr]

They’d be unhappy and divorce rates skyrocket because the grass is always greener lol.

[@ineedhoez]

The men would need to level up economically And emotionally. Men don't want to do that.

[@AliMacAzz]

Another aspect of this is that a number of men I know (& possibly a growing number generally) have stopped dating (mostly) because they didn’t like how so many women (esp. professional women) don’t have the feminine qualities they want in a wife….so it may (increasingly) work both ways - both sexes not being satisfied with the selection of partner/spouse material currently.

[@gmikes5184]

everyone has stopped dating period. nothing but hoes or mental cases or lames left IF they even open to more beyond just being eff friends. ppl suck and not worth it.

[@yepitsme7237]

You put shrek for the cover… Lmao. Haha 😂😂💀 Savage

[@matthewcourtney8683]

4:25 you mean “docile”. Great and very interesting chat!

[@Diego-Designs]

They are dating down in a way, because real men just stopped chasing altogether. So women are stuck with soyboys, but they still want a real man.

[@youyoua988]

Agreed!!

[@baileys6346]

Hang on, is that an anime profile picture I see?

[@iiiiiiiiiiii90000000]

I "dated down" and ended up with a real man. Use a bit of Janusian thinking and you will discover a huge blind spot in this discourse from both the female and male perspective.

[@eliahelfenbein4731]

They never stop chasing. Just looking for the right one.

[@johnw574]

Do we still have "real women"?

[@Krelian4400]

They aren't dating "down" more like across to their looksmatch. The smarter ones eventually get tired of being burned and used up by Chad. This still doesn't happen until well into their 30's though and the relationships are usually of the betabuxx type, especially if she needs money to take care of any children Chad left her with or just to help pay the outrageous cost of rent.

[@Zop_]

bingo

[@Saberdud]

This is why you don’t date leftover women, they’re damaged goods and will not stick around if mister betabuxx happens to fall on hard times, even if they made kids together. Reminds me of a story this guy told me in a KZbin comment section of this restaurant owner falling on hard times during the lockdown and then his wife of 10 years abandoning him, that’s all it took

[@daydreamer4855]

@@Saberdud damaged goods? Are you talking about property or women?

[@Zop_]

@@Saberdud very true, they will always consider you a second option and something they had settle for because tera chad only gave them the zinc

[@therealscot2491]

@@daydreamer4855 woman, which he stated was true after 30 you are leftover woman.

[@lhurst9550]

That is a whole lot of truth in a very short time.

[@australian2]

“These chicks be for everybody” - Chris Brown.

[@memastarful]

I personally don't mate at all been celibate for 13 years. I've gotten sick and tired of the foolish roller-coaster rides dating often brings. I find the quality of men with integrity is very rare. Plus alot more men are gay or bisexuality so that's a big no thank you to dating a man. It's hard enough to compete with other women but to have to compete with men too is way to much for my taste. I simply rather not date and wait to meet a truly good man.

[@tempuramonster]

Good luck spending the rest of your life alone then.

[@memastarful]

@@tempuramonster I'm not lonely quite the opposite. Being with a negative toxic partner is much worse than being alone

[@memastarful]

@@torachan23 the right man will respect and value me not being a easy like many are. Holding my self with dignity confidence and self respect is a beautiful treasure to find. I pray more women value there bodies. I don't disdain men I've just observed it's not so great out there that doesn't mean they're aren't good quality of guys still. They are just hard to find and rare. I'm just not into clowns 🤡🤡🤡

[@memastarful]

@@aqmohra4 wow that's quite the assumption 🙄

[@memastarful]

@@aqmohra4 by the way.....we all have options.

[@rathernotdisclose8064]

Even dating their equals is considered "dating down" for women these days tho lol

[@gipgap4]

Settling to women = less than instead of equal to.

[@vklnew9824]

Wheat Waffles was right

[@patrickphelan3676]

I've seen some cultures that have struck a balance between perfect partner & sexual desire. They employ the "major" & "minor" partner dynamic; but like ghost busters, the streams must never cross. Sure it costs double of a regular union, but that is a perk of success. It works very well, as long a all parties understand their roles, & stick to their lanes.

[@MrLazini]

At 6:00 is where the gold is !! Thanks Chris !!

[@ddraigtribe8768]

All I'll say is, as an average income guy who used to be engaged to a millionaire (it didn't work out) all I can say is that dating up as a guy is fucking stressful

[@zeno2501]

I think I disagree with the idea that as hypergamy declines infidelity increases. I think female infidelity is just hypergamy without access to high status. Unless William is saying that women who are unable to secure a high status man would rather have multiple low status men. That seems unlikely to me. I think it's more likely that female infidelity of this kind occurs when a woman knows she is unhappy with her partner so scrambles around sleeping with multiple other men hoping to discover that one of them is of higher status than her partner, but because she doesn't have access to the high status men it doesn't quite work. It's more a tragic spiral of hypergamy-driven infidelity rather than a sexual choice for multiple low status men.

[@deklares1]

Its the dual mating strategy. The woman grasps the man that can be the provider as she ages, but still yearns for the dude/s who kept her single for her 20's.

[@Trazynn]

Infidelity is merely informal hypergamy.

[@MichelleAntonia]

You assume women think and act like men, sleeping around to find something "better" based on their superficial "value." Women do not do this. Women cheat because they feel neglected and disrespected. They're looking for an emotional need that's not filled, not some on-paper status.

[@deklares1]

@@MichelleAntonia 🧢

[@daydreamer4855]

Nice critique. I want to add not every woman can practice hypergamy. Disabled women, fat women, some non-white women, many single mothers cannot practice hypergamy. Many date down which I don't think is a bad thing if he adds to their life. I think men focus on the attractive, educated women (the model type women) which most men won't have access to them. The generalizations help to explain points but it is damaging to women who don't practice hypergamy.

[@janeproctor5542]

One thing that worries me about peoples' use of the internet as an alternative to "real life relating" is that it may be locking them into a state or states of denial. One familiar form of denial often accompanies loss but there are many different form of loss, and it can be a stumbling block along the path to feeling; feeling ones own feelings, for instance, and hence gaining relevent self knowledge to help move out of a rut; other unhelpful perceptions that may impact mental health and health in general.

[@karma7478]

Every time I "mate down" I ultimately get dumped because I am "too good", "too smart" or "too accomplished" for them. It simply does not work for guys. They don't like dating up.

[@krismm17]

I just wish I had friends that liked to talk about these kinds of things 😅😂

[@OPbob]

Women think because they date down they can dominate their partners that leads to more problems in the relationship

[@sthp9214]

Isnt that the reason why men are always willing to date down with women (in terms of not caring what a woman has to offer outside her looks).

[@OPbob]

@@sthp9214 men dominating their partners leads to problems aswell

[@sthp9214]

@@OPbob Agreed for both.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Better than women bring dominated by the man

[@Anymonous246]

Good fkin content man

[@-optimist-2697]

Men that women dating are reflection of who they are. If they date down, they feel resentful since they often rate themselves higher than men who might actaully on their level. And women compare themselves to other women a lot like in almost everything.

[@sleepconcentrationmeditation]

Dating down is dangerous no matter if it's the women or men. That do it.

[@owenarnold7611]

I'll speak as objectively as possible. My wife married down. She is very very wealthy (via her dad), I do okay (earn a GP/lawyer type wage). I'm nowhere near her wealth bracket (not many people in the world are). We do NOT have children for MEDICAL reasons (surrogacy is also ruled out). We are thinking about adoption....but that has its problems when you do your research and realise the likelihood of adopting a child with MAJOR behavioural problems (understandably). We are happy with our current situation, and we do lots for charity and have a dog. My point is, I technically fit into the "wife married down and don't have kids" conversation....but ours was medically forced on us....so that's why you can't always take these statistics at first hand.

[@lunalou8888]

👏🏻 thank you. I love reading comments where people actually are realistic, honest and objective. There is alot of grey areas and it's not always black and white which people seem to do here ive noticed. Wishing you and your wife a wonderful marriage, I can tell you two are wonderful together

[@thirdagegames1605]

So much wisdoms here. Can you link the studies mentioned?

[@Reply-who-me]

I, as a degree holding woman, do not for a moment feel I married remotely down with my blue collar husband. As I see it and it was made plainly clear to me by my employer upon completion of my degree that due to the proliferation of degreed people in the market and the dumbing down of many degrees, even technical ones, my bachelors degree is the equivalent of a high school diploma to many employers. While I enjoyed my degree, it was simply not worth the time , money, or effort as I’ve learned more from on-the-job activities than anything my degree offered.

[@DoctorEstoico]

If female infidelity is raising but male is not, then the conclusion most be that some women are sharing a man.

[@lightworker2956]

I think throughout history, the average woman has had these priorities (obviously individual women may differ): 1) Make sure that I'm okay. 2) Once the previous points are satisfied: get impregnated by a guy with good genes (aka a hot guy or a guy on top of the dominance hierarchy) 3) Once the previous points are satisfied: get a stable provider (ideally a man, but in a pinch big daddy government will do). Back when monogamy was enforced and women didn't work, they needed to settle down with any reasonable guy, hence most women married. In either tribal times or in 2022, women don't need to be married to be okay. So now they're playing out their old script of: get impregnated by a hot guy aka a guy with good genes, then get either a provider guy or the government to support them. So that's how you get all the 20-something women trying to get banged by the 10/10 guy via Tinder, and once they're single moms, they either try to get Tom the accountant to settle down with them, or they become leftists and try to get the government to play the role of provider.

[@crazytown1146]

@@lightworker2956 that's the best summary of this situation I have ever heard

[@Mist3rEM]

@@lightworker2956 it's actually a bit frightening how accurate that is.

[@steph6109]

It just means that more women are not being faithful. And the same number of men are not being faithful

[@enemyofthestatewearein7945]

@@lightworker2956 People often talk about female duplicity but essentially this is a fallback strategy, pursued only by women who have, by definition, failed to retain an ideal mate - the most successful and secure outcome for a woman to fulfill her hypergamous instincts is still to get the good genes AND the provider in the same guy. The woman who either cheats paternity, or takes a provider stepdad for her existing kids, is by definition settling for a less hypergamous outcome, because women won't cheat on a desirable mate, and most guys won't choose single mothers, when they have better options. Equally living off the state is not something any woman aspires to, it's usually the result of failing to retain a sufficient man. I have even seen women (with children) stick with deadbeat husbands much longer than they should have, to avoid such situations.

[@peacedreamerable]

The pill has caused a lot of problem hormones, and pheramones giving out wrong signals casuing high levels of miss matches has a part to play .

[@rgonzalo511]

Does anybody know who the Evo psychologists William is referencing in the beginning, the ones that say there's no mating crisis?

[@HansensUniverseT-A]

Hypergamy here in Norway is sky high, if you go to any pub or club, anywhere frankly, you see clusters of men together and cluster of women, neither wanting to interact with the other. I'm a millennial and every guy i know is single, some by choice as they have given up on women, i think in the long run men are adapting while women will struggle.

[@whitebroccoli694]

“Women aren’t happy about mating down” , lol I don’t think they were very happy mating up either. Women just want better always.

[@wyleecoyotee4252]

Doesn't everyone want better everything?

[@ngpdreamteam2k4]

@@wyleecoyotee4252 no. Hence why women initiate 80% of divorce. Men tend to be content with their situations. Not all but most.

[@Nah-ah]

There is a sub-topic I’ve noticed… a lot of men’s perception and/or evidence-based findings tells me that women need men, but they do not want them! Would that be a fair statement?

[@ngpdreamteam2k4]

@@Nah-ah Yes and no. No one needs anyone, but we all want someone. Women refuse to settle for what they perceive as a bad deal, unlike men who can easily value any reasonable women who’s interested. This is not all men and women, but it’s definitely most. Neither is bad or good, it just is what it is.

[@Nah-ah]

@@ngpdreamteam2k4 right, got it!

[@emptysoul5057]

I did that married him too.... we're happy with our kid in a house which I bought outright cash... I made way more money than he did and I got everything together we would need to live our lives. Seven years later we married had our kid and I now stay at home with our kid. He feels it's fair because I did all the working in the beginning.

[@pianosonata5029]

Even if you had not worked, us men we want to provide.

[@emptysoul5057]

Not really we were friends when we were little kids. His mother was a single mom serial dating over eating screaming type. Needless to say when it came time for us to be adults he had barely graduated highschool with C's and D's and he could barely keep down a fast food Job. I was a tech school graduate and even though I knew he would not be able to provide the life I was used to, I liked him for the person he was. I did all the providing and encouraged him and made him feel like he was the greatest man ever. He quit drinking and drugs in time. And when he began acting like he was the greatest man ever, the man I knew he was inside, we married. I quit being a truck driver who paid for everything and became the Mom who cared for my family. And he provided for us now as a cattle man. Sometimes past circumstances mean you just gotta wait for the right person to get better then you can start a life with them. We had played trucks together since 5th grade and even though he had no life skills or money I just liked him. No woke no feminism just love.

[@xkben90]

Good on you. It’s never black and white on whose role it is to do what. What matters is that you work as a team and understand one another. My wife made more than I did the first two years of our marriage. I now make more than double what she makes, but we never compared with each other based on our financial status because when you marry, everything is seen as one bank account. It’s about teamwork towards a single goal.

[@trinasmith4326]

You're the exception. Not the rule. Usually the guy feels emasculated, cheats or splits up after they become successful. A lot of ex wifes were just stepping stones. That's a dangerous and long game for a woman to play. Better to give and ask for nothing in return or not give at all in that circumstance.

[@emptysoul5057]

Yes. I feared that very thing. That's why I wouldn't be together with him until he shaped up. I told him I had plans and ambitions and he could get on board or stay right where he was. But I have never once insulted his masculinity. In my opinion earning power has absolutely no say in how masculine a person is. I compliment him every day at least once. Guys aren't like girls they wanna be gassed up. That's why so many beautiful critical women lose their men to loose, low class but encouraging women. But any pick is a gamble. On the other hand picking an upper class man can also result in the woman being discard by age 30 because many wealthy men only want perfection. So it's all a gamble.

[@exposingproxystalkingorgan4164]

Relationships have degenerated into a societal shit show of danger abd hassles.

[@truthprevails4386]

so, i had a first date. guy and i met when we were all with a friend group. two out of three phone conversations he was drunk/extremely open and forthcoming with a lot of information, and some red flags that popped up, but i gave it a shot. so we settled on a date. he didn't know what to do so i suggested a place to meet that would be fun regardless of if we were compatible or not. after i asked him where he suggested for food... he didn't know. i said i knew a texas roadhouse nearby and we settled on that. so texas roadhouse has tasty rolls. i had torn some off of my roll and ate it, and then asked my date to pass me the cinnamon butter. he had the butter but decided that he would rather reach over and take my roll from the plate and stick it into the container with the cinnamon butter. i smacked the back of his hand and asked him what the hell he was doing, he said "oh, i thought we were closer than that." i wasn't angry, i was just shocked and strangely amused that someone actually would think that it's ok to touch someone's food without an invitation. needless to say, the date continued and the guy got the hint that he'd finally blown it a 3rd time. (the phone conversations were a doozy and i was his therapist. plus he expected me to be as forthcoming with information as he was, and i'm just not that person) so sadly, i don't date up, i don't date down. i would love to meet someone and fall in love, but i'm also just fine if i'm alone in my own company.. it's not settling to not want to be in a relationship, just so i'm not alone, but according to society i'm already a spinster anyhow.

[@SnowofLight]

If he doesn't know what to do then I don't go. My next sentence would have been "Let me know if you think of something" then slowly ghost. Although I would have also dropped the phone call on the drunk conversations! Learnt my lessons lol

[@justiceforjoggers2897]

@@SnowofLight "Slowly Ghost" Cut the fucking cord, jesus christm

[@SnowofLight]

@@justiceforjoggers2897 It's better to leave the ball in the other person's court. Whether they decide to come through with a plan or not is up to them, meanwhile there's no stress on my side. If he doesn't, then that likely means he had other options he was pursuing at the same time - so no one looses!

[@chewdoom8415]

You let him cross boundaries from the start, and she showed a clear disregard for boundaries, as well as a lack of understanding that it was inappropriatene to divulge so much with someone

[@chewdoom8415]

@@SnowofLight Sometimes it is best just to cut the cord. If you slowly ghost and then they do have a plan and they convince you to come back in, you could just end up deciding to give it another shot and experience the same bullshit. Nothing wrong with just being straight up about someone you aren't that interested in.

[@Wong-Jack-Man]

It’s easy to conflate hypergamy on the decline with settling. Very hard to measure which is which and what you are trying to differentiate. If you think there is a trend where prime 20 something’s are going for lower smv guys than I’ll empathetically say no. If it’s older 20s to 30s that’s traditionally settling.

[@zephaniahmcdaniels]

My thoughts exactly. Biology will always win. Marriage doesn't mean they aren't still fucking the guy they really want

[@davidclayton.1511]

@@impudentdomain it's hardwired!!!

[@Kirby5413]

Older 20s as in any woman over 24 years old? I don't see either them or women ages 30-34 settling.

[@artofaries1113]

If women date down, the quality of people go down.

[@ChrisKSP]

holy crap. 1:30 to 2:30 was amazing insight into game theory of relationships.

[@zeynand4039]

I never cared about dating up, I just wanted someone who wanted kids, and thst part is expensive, to have a home and stable income is a hurdle. I've heard many men say they don't want kids ever.m because of the responsibility. So anyone confident enough to see the value in procreation even if we live in a small apartment, that person becomes very interesting to me. That's not dating up or down, it's almost like surviving and reaching your main goals in life.

[@dnbjedi]

I can't truly speak for women but I will say that I am noticing that men don't seem to care how good looking a girl is? We will of course deify sexy women, but I don't think the majority of men are like "ew shes an uggo. I don't even want to interact with her." Now I know that women are very intensely concerned with their own level of attraction and are hyper aware of the other womens levels, so I'm guessing its a big deal for them period. Of course physical attraction is a form of money in a way, its genetically pleasing and there are 'signs of fertility and verility". Anyway I think guys, They just want a girl that isn't crazy. Am I wrong guys? I mean of course nobody wants someone overweight, and with bad hygiene, but if it is a woman that you can get along with and have the benefit of having a family with, intimacy, and all that? I don't know one single guy who would trade that for Barbie Boss. I think we need the male remix to "Where have all the cowboys gone?"

[@henningbackhaus6268]

​@@TuscanBrick I would agree. When you've been playing the gender games for a while as a man, you just get bored, especially with Insta-women. I would sit on the edge of my chair if a woman told me she was reading Slavoj Žižek, but that almost never happens. ^^

[@dnbjedi]

@@henningbackhaus6268 SO true. :/

[@caralho5237]

I cant try anything with a girl i consider ugly, but i find most of them to be acceptable at least

[@eneveasi]

I’m infinitely grateful to have met such an amazing partner in this crazy crazy world haha

[@whynonbelieversareidiots8543]

sure lol

[@therealscot2491]

I hope for your sake thats true, here's my advice never let a woman know how long you'll be away, always get a lawyer involved in matter of money, keep your pension in hard assets you can hide and don't have children she can't steal from you!

[@filthycasual9381]

Interesting how 'egalitarianism' demands that the things that make men sexually valuable are equally distributed while female sexual value is allowed to become heavily consolidated by dismissing 'non-egalitarian' sexual norms. That's probably why women hold stronger 'egalitarian' attitudes.

[@jmr9856]

It's good to follow/understand these societal trends, but it boils down to both men and women's self worth. If you have that, you'll realize you don't have to marry someone who is going to look down on you, in either direction. Team effort & mutual respect are key, not career choices. My cousin didn't go to college, but did start a contractor business from scratch. He supported his wife, who finished college to become a teacher. They have great kids and a lovely house that my cousin renovated. A real power couple as far as I'm concerned.

[@JapseyeSpecs]

We need to stop choosing partners based on shallow societal values which give no indication on whether or not you could become soulmates.

[@ineedhoez]

Soulmates don't exist. Their economic realities when it comes to children. The cost of living is too damn high.

[@caralho5237]

What if men also stop dating down? I have seen many families get ruined because the guy couldn't keep it in his pants and would fuck around with women he didn't really admire or even like. Result: Child support, broken up family and everyone is unhappy.

[@Ninebreak999]

I love the thumbnail

[@blindoutlaw]

“High numbers of childless men” Military: you mean potential recruits

[@reignz6968]

lol