What has G'Kar endured? (Babylon 5)

[@Jch79]

Its a crime that Sci Fi and Fantasy didn't get the recognition they do now in the 90's. Andreas and Peter would have been nominated for emmy's...

[@torlekjpec5708]

If the Emmys were giving out according to work performance and not child-rape-sacrifice-murdering. Probably yes.

[@BrightOranje]

Sci-Fi is popular today because they made it 50 times as violent and filled it with ridiculous, crude gags. Most of it is nothing but contemptible trash.

[@thomasb1889]

@@BrightOranje The Expanse which is also a darker future like B5 while somewhat violent which fits its universe doesn't do crude gags. Star Trek Discovery which might be a somewhat decent TV science fiction show if all the Trek was removed is terrible as Trek. Star Trek Picard is only slightly better because it does address a very Trek question of what is life.

[@CorsetLebelle]

Think about it this way they where the pathfinders for later generations of sci fi and fantasy actors

[@kellycochran6487]

@@Sonnabend00 Forget it, he's on a roll...

[@Lightsoul1987]

The great thing about this scene is that G'kar is essentially arguing with his younger self. At the beginning of Babylon 5, Gkar was just like this Narn here. Retaliation at any cost. Only over the years and after all the suffering has he begun to understand that this path leads the Narn into the same abyss in which the Centauri already find themselves. “Obsessed with each other’s death until death is the only thing we can see and the only thing we deserve.”

[@catsi563]

Agreed, that is so spot on, which makes the laughter all the more understandable i think as it hits him that, that is whats happening exactly he realizes this fundamental argument with his younger self and the realization of pure irony just hits him harder than the whip did.

[@tatianalyulkin410]

True. But they did kill G'Kar's father. And we know bubkes about that young Narn. It's so tempting to dismiss him as some ridiculous fanatic who drank too much Kool Aid. But maybe his parents were shot in front of him. Maybe his brother was tortured to death when he had nothing to do with the Resistance. JMS doesn't provide any hints to what HE had to endure.

[@catsi563]

@@tatianalyulkin410 Yes this is true but the thing is that what hes trying to get through to them is that. It DOESNT matter in that moment. what matter is the suffering of their people which msut be addressed. Not calls for vengance and retributution its analgous to a bunch of people whove had their village burned down and are now standing cold and hungry in the rain. Instead of calling for revenge on those who wronged them the focus should be on rebuilding tjheir homes and getting food first THEN seeking justice afrer everyones taken care of Older Gkar sees this and sees the memory of his younger self who had become distacted by the calls for revenge and retalitation and sees this being said to him again as he literally argues against what his yoinger slf would have been howling to the moon for.

[@tatianalyulkin410]

In a perfect world- yes. But we don't live in a perfect world- do we. We forgave the Banderites after the war, allowed them to live among us when we had nothing in common. And in 2014 they " came back " and now my parents and my brother are dead and I'm living in Hell. There are people in this world who misinterpret humanity and honor as being a loser and a doormat and everyone on this board knows that. You gotta make sure " they " don't come back before you start to rebuild.

[@stuartgrier5605]

Yes.

[@justanotherlikeyou]

Narn: "But the Centari..." G'Kar: "Are a lost people!" One of the most profound statements in all of television writing. And the delivery by Andreas Katsulas was so authentic as well. Thank you for this👍

[@trinitymplayers]

No doubt he heard rumors during his imprisonment of the Shadows' presence on Centauri Prime and of the Vorlon threat, or Londo told him during one of his secrets visits to G'Kar's cell.

[@davidsolomon7341]

Exactly.

[@rmsgrey]

@@trinitymplayers No need for him to know of the direct Vorlon threat to Centauri Prime. Anyone who knows the Centauri know that they are an empire in decline - living off their former glories. As Kosh put it some time before: "They are a dying people. We should let them pass." - though he didn't take his own advice. The hope for both Narn and Centauri is that they can both learn to accept the atrocities and indignities each side has now inflicted upon the other, and break free of the spiral of revenge - otherwise, like Londo and G'Kar, the two sides will go to their death with hands locked around each other's throats.

[@trinitymplayers]

@@rmsgrey So were the Narn with their obsession for revenge.

[@Foebane72]

@@rmsgrey Sinclair's conversation with Kosh actually went like this: "They are a dying people. We should let them pass." "Who? The Narn or the Centauri?" "Yes." Simple, yet extremely poignant.

[@robwalsh9843]

"We need strength to lead us. Fire to forge us. We saw that in the Centauri, learned that from them" "Then you have learned the wrong lessons..." So much wisdom in so few words.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

Take away the alien costumes and weird sets, just have the actors perform in street clothes and you will still see some of the best drama ever written and performed. Enjoy this, you'll never see anything this good made these days.

[@ediakaran]

I hope we learn the right lessons from the Russians today. A lost people. They are to be pitied.

[@Vristatos789]

What makes it better is that the Narn were in this situation after spending so much time being aggressive after winning independence the first time. And now they wanted to repeat it with new management. It’s just as bad as learning the wrong lessons. They’ve learned nothing.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

@@Vristatos789 G'Kar wants them to break the cycle, but they're so hurt and angry they can't see what they're doing.

[@freyamiles3718]

Actual racist rhetoric

[@FirstLast-cg2nk]

"Let's have another war with the Centauri!" "Didn't we just lose a war with the Centauri within the last three years?" "Things will be different this time!" "Didn't we say that last time?"

[@InfernosReaper]

It wasn't even 3 years. That happened like a year or 2 ago. They had like *one* major warship left, freaking *one*! It would've been the shortest war ever and *no one* could fault the Centauri for wiping the Narn out if they were stupid enough to try it.

[@girlgarde]

@@InfernosReaper Actually, the captain of the one Narn warship in question said in season 3 that they had 10 functioning warships and some others which they were trying to repair but I get what you're saying and I agree with you completely. The Narns were in no position to do anything to the Centauri at this point. They needed to focus on rebuilding their cities and infrastructure like G'Kar said.

[@marckrieger3277]

And in a span of one year the narn get their revenge laying waste on centauri prime, they never learn.

[@hagamapama]

@@marckrieger3277 They had a lot of help from a coalition of Drazi and other powers.

[@marckrieger3277]

@@hagamapama I know. Also centauri defence was sabotaged by the regent. My point was the narn did not learn from g'kar. They still wanted revenge

[@glowing571]

Andreas Katsula can go from dead fury, kill zone to laughing mania in seconds, in perfect timing with the mood of a scene. Truly one of the most underrated actors I've ever watched. RIP big Narn.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

Not underrated by any B5 fan.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

@@glowing571 Peter Jurasik said once he was in costume and makeup, you were talking to the character. What fun it would be, to buy G'Kar a plate of Swedish meatballs and talk about anything.

[@tatianalyulkin410]

I'm still a chef. I'll make my beloved G'Kar his Swedish Meatballs. From scratch.

[@t.sniffin3031]

​@@ninjabearpress2574Andreas apparently felt completely comfortable in the G'kar makeup and thought it made him "sexy", which he didn't see in himself. It's probably one of those cases where the makeup was completely freeing to an actor's performance

[@glowing571]

@@t.sniffin3031 He was a regular looking person, as most of us are but when he became G'kar, I can't help but agree with him. He looked taller, imposing, powerful. Combined with that magnificent voice, he owned every scene he was in on B5 (and co-owned some with Peter Jurasik).

[@Prime92]

I love how the guy immediately regrets saying "What have you endured?" He knew it was stupid as soon as it came out of his mouth.

[@LordZontar]

G'Lorn is then what G'Kar was three years earlier.

[@lanway13]

You're right. G'Kar and Londo have the best arcs and character development in the whole damn series.

[@dustinjones7458]

Even if his inflection is a deliberately callback to how G'kar used to speak.

[@girlgarde]

G'Kar must've thought to himself "Is this REALLY what I was once like? Hellbent on genocide and willing to become evil for the sake of revenge? Geez, no wonder no one helped me out when my people were attacked......"

[@hagamapama]

I think this is why G'Kar had such a hard time coping with him

[@biocapsule7311]

Not really, G'Kar was angry but there is a sense of restrain anger. He was part of the resistance when before the rise of the Narn Regime, which makes him experience in being patient, he knows the value of it even when he often seem clouded by anger. He is no youngling. Does that fool look like someone who can negotiate closer ties with Humans during the Minbari war? I don't think so, perhaps in time he will learn but he is no G'Kar even 3 years ago.

[@PassiveSmoking]

"What have you endured?", he asks the man with one eye

[@InfernosReaper]

@VHTesla First, aiding in the fight against the darkness that aided the Centauri in their crusade against the Narn. Then, suffered, bled, and lost his eye while forging the very bargain that saved his people. That last part is one they can never know. If word got out about it, Londo and Vir would be executed after watching their families be stripped naked and marched down the streets while being whipped. Afterwards, the Centauri would then come back and finish what Cartagia started.

[@mistermorden8840]

Yes

[@samsonguy10k]

One thing that sets Londo above those Narn who wanted only to loot and destroy. He would have never asked G'kar what he endured. He never doubted what G'kar went through, even when the animosity between them was at its highest. He never denied to himself what the Narn endured when they were under the Centauri boot the first time. What he wanted to prevent was the reprisal that was deserved. You really look at Londo through those five years, you see him afraid of losing his nation and himself. What he started, though, gained more momentum than what he had intended.

[@Relugus]

And yet it is the man with one who sees the truth, while he, with his two eyes, is blind.

[@oomusd]

'They are to be pitied" G'kar was again and again a joy to watch him to raise higher and higher. He was a true model of spirituality and wisdom. The character started from anger to sorrow until forgiveness in long years of development.

[@unlimitedrabbit]

oomusd /)

[@Thalanox]

@@unlimitedrabbit (\

[@dkupke]

He had seen first hand just how depraved the Centauri court was. And he knew about their involvement with the Shadows. Deal with the devil, there is a price to pay. He knew the debt collectors would come knocking for the Centauri eventually.

[@stevedixon921]

G'kar's character changed so much from the first season to the last season. Went from a petulant victim to a vengeful warrior to an exhausted leader and then finally let his baggage go and became someone of unparalleled integrity.

[@tatianalyulkin410]

He was never a " petulant victim ". He was a talented and ruthless Resistance commander hellbent on revenge.

[@ameier5570]

that broken, half insane laughter at the end gets me every time. "What have you endured?" I think the better question ist "For what have I endured it if you just start the cyrcle of revenge again."

[@kenohki3492]

+A Meier Excellent observation. I doubt people thought of it like that.

[@robertoleary5470]

A Meier love that

[@MassHystereo]

Another example of great writing. You think he's going to tear into G'lon but how could he possibly be more emphatic than the proclamation of "They are a lost people!" Instead, JMS wisely provides a different response that depends on the dramatic irony of the viewer. We know what he's endured. That's why you can have him burst into laughter at the unknowing idiocy of asking him "What have you endured, G'kar?" Brilliant!

[@ДмитрийКаганер]

"What have you endured?" You look at a man wuth one eye gauged, with clown's garments wrapped around him, and ask him this question. Do you really need your eyes if you make no use if them?..

[@3ggh3ad]

when G'kar became J'ker :P

[@SuperODST1]

"What have you endured?" "Oh, I'm sorry. Does suffering through two different occupations, one invasion, and extreme torture including the loss of an eye not count as enduring? Oh, surely you, the guy with no visible wounds, all major body parts and cognitive faculties(mostly) intact, have suffered far more."

[@majormononoke8958]

I dont think the question is who has suffered more , it never is... ( and i think you got that part really wrong, this is not about who has more) But why to wage war, celebrating on the suffering of your own people and spreading rewards and status symbols instead of trying to attend those who still suffer and walk the same way murderers did only to feed the illusion beast that those put into your mind ...

[@InfernosReaper]

@@majormononoke8958 You'd be surprised how many times it really is a pissing contest of "who suffered more"

[@khyronkravshera7774]

@@InfernosReaper That’s what the whole “Identity Politics” issue is. I’m more important than you because my group has been more oppressed than your group.

[@InfernosReaper]

@@khyronkravshera7774 And thus perpetuating the cycle. It's definitely quite sad.

[@DrJReefer]

@@khyronkravshera7774 Literally false but thanks for showing yourself up

[@Terminalsanity]

Literally asks the the guy that was tortured for weeks and had an eye ripped out: "What have you endured?" God JSM really caught the absurdity of real life cognitive dissonance.

[@pitmatix1457]

Then what G'Kar asks the question back you can see the visible "....ooops" moment on his face. :-)

[@daviddavies3637]

To be "stuffed in a UPS postal box," as Andreas Katsulas once described it and yet still be able to pull off scenes like this with such gravitas ... he was very much an underrated actor.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

Not by me, not by anyone who has seen him work.

[@JoshSweetvale]

Greatest "Screw you guys, I'm going home" ever.

[@azraelknightquest5754]

2:34 That narn's look of regret. That "Oh...oh, man. Oh man, I just made myself look such a fool, oh man I am so stupid..." That's why G'Kar didn't say anything more. He didn't need to. The bumbling, rageful fool just proved G'Kars point. He became his own worst enemy.

[@BillHallProductions]

I read it as that dude thinking "I'm about to die" and G'Kar pulling back just before killing him

[@Rapscallion2009]

Dude. You're talking to a man with one eye. And looking at him with both...

[@tatianalyulkin410]

It was as powerful as when Charles says to Erik " those men are just following orders ". The more we're talking about it the more I'm convinced that the young Narn has his own horror stories. The trauma that he can't deal with. Because you gotta be in agony to lash out at G'Kar after the Hell he's been through.

[@tatianalyulkin410]

You're being naive. There are tons of torture methods that leave no visible scars.

[@azraelknightquest5754]

@tatianalyulkin410 That is one stupid assumption with a lot of imagination making crap up to make yourself support it. There is no indication that young Narn has been tortured whatsoever and still doesn't negate that G'Kar is standing there with a bloody, bandaged eye socket as the idiot said "What have you suffered?". That has to be one of the stupidest, most desperate attempts to downplay an obvious situation I have ever heard. I don't even respect that idiot opinion.

[@thegreenmanofnorwich]

I loved that rather than taking offence or fighting, G'Kar just laughs, as he recognises that all this posturing, all these cycles of ruthless attacking, are not just pointless, but absurd

[@YouWillBeHappyOrElse]

The youngun giving him that look of "oh crap" when he turns around is enough to know, there's no need to lash out. This idiot already realized his mistake.

[@greanstreak04]

That laugh, it broke my heart. I've heard it once before. From a broken man. I'm reminded of a line from a book I once read. How do you hurt a man that has lost everything? You give him back something broken...

[@strangelee4400]

Stephen Donaldson.

[@kyndjal3118]

holy hells! i once wrote a story for school decades ago that adresses this! The story revolved around a billionaire and a demon that wanted his soul,and the billionaire bit by bit loses everything,even family and friends and he endures it all, something akin to Job. at the end the story there's only a table and a gun,and the demon,seemingly gives up and concedes that he will not be able to have him so,as a sort of prize,he returns his wife to him and leaves. But it so happens that his wife was returned as a mental vegetable,so the guy,overcomed with grief,ends up killing her as a mercy and commits suicide.And the demon laughs.

[@fyrestorme]

G'kar endured great unjust suffering, humiliation, torture, betrayal, loss, sorrow, disfigurement. He endured as much as the whole of his race did. Some insults are not enough to make us angry; Some are just enough to makes us angry; Some are enough to throw us into a rage.. and some are so truly outrageous that one simply has to laugh at the sheer obsurdity of it.

[@JamesTobiasStewart]

After what he'd gone through just to get to this point, G'kar doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. He has been through agonising pain both physical and emotional and he has survived it all.

[@marcinmalczewski310]

G'kar was last of kari member, senteced by centauri to vivisection, chained, mocked and tortured, lost his family end in rugs and with eye patch. Look at his acuser as he talking that He is sufer more his opresion was greater beacuse he obvisuly bleed and died for his pepole ulike to G'kar. I think G'kar shuld take leadership just to order his execution for shuch bold claim that He sufer for entire Narn popuation and then ask is there any body else wiling to put chains of his will upon him order free elections to kari and abdicate.

[@bthsr7113]

As a whole, the Narns and Centauri brought out the worst in each other. In stark contrast to the growth and betterment of Londo and G'kar. As they improved, their societies darkened. As G'kar learned restraint , his people were willing to respond too every "slight" in kind and escalate. As Mollari understood duty, sacrifice, and compassion, his government turned a blind eye to cruelty in the name of ambition. And both made sacrifices for the good of not only their people, but the galaxy. G'kar sacrificed his revenge. Mollari ultimately sacrificed his life. And many things were taken from both on top of those and more sacrifices.

[@bthsr7113]

@DEEPFOXJUDE I try.

[@CCB5er34]

G'Kar was incredible, Andreas Katsulas was incredible, and so was J. Michael Straczynski and B5 were incredible, so much truth. Love this so much.

[@michaeldreibelbis9529]

When you combine a great writer with great actors... the product is beyond description.... A great script can be absolutely destroyed by shitty actors.... Babylon 5 was the ultimate example of how great things can happen with that kind of combination...

[@tatianalyulkin410]

And let's not forget that JMS had predicted the Ukrainian civil war.

[@redshirt5126]

"I did not fight to lose one dictator just to became another one myself!" "But the Centari....." "ARE A LOST PEOPLE!!!!!!"

[@lanway13]

That line really shows how Kosh's lesson from his Dust-induced vision in season 3 has taken hold.

[@ReaverLordTonus]

Isn't that similar to a quote from George Washington?

[@wiseguy01]

replace Centari with Europeans/white people and it becomes very true to life.

[@tak178]

@@wiseguy01 And the one fool amongst many, rears his ugly head, and spouts ignorance and pablum...just like the Centauri.

[@wiseguy01]

@@tak178 not foolishness, just the truth. The rest of the world was not always the "third world" and defined by poverty. Europe did that, lol. Can't deny reality just because it upsets you.

[@ConnorLonergan]

"We suffered and died under their occupation what have you endured." "I was forced to watch you suffer and die, constantly being told how I was not able to save you. If you do not think that did not bring suffering and pain to me, then my friend, you are sorely mistaken."

[@bthsr7113]

He even wanted to turn himself over, but his people he'd reached told him no. One cut himself to keep G'kar there.

[@kenmazoch8499]

another fantastic scene that shows both how great the character was and even greater was the actor playing him. RIP Andreas, you left us far to soon.

[@LordZontar]

So many have left too soon. Barely twenty years or so after the series and nearly half the cast is already gone.

[@ninjabearpress2574]

I'm glad he's not here to see what Hollyweird has become.

[@cleanerben9636]

he died?!!! When?!!

[@TonyTylerDraws]

@@cleanerben9636 2006

[@clairestark9024]

You'll notice G'kar never suggests forgiving or being better than them. He just says he doesnt want to waste this chance to save his people.

[@blackbird4046]

0:49 The one-eyed man seeing better than a man with his eyes intact... The loss of G'Kar's eye is experience, and _"Experience outranks everything."_ -- CPT Rex (7567) 0:58 Trying to make him a cult leader... 1:21 A coup and vengeance-fueled dictatorship. 1:51 Ignoring his protests. Such disrespect. 2:09 A man with his eyes still functional, completely blinded by vengeance. 2:16 To insult when one cannot get their way... _"You didn't grow up, you grew old."_ 2:38 Asking a now-one-eyed man what he endured, seemingly oblivious to his injury. And that man then laughing...

[@xtzyshuadog]

*I never thought you a COWARD, G'Kar!* That sudden change in tone, emotion, thought to frustration and anger... and G'kar's reaction of "What have I endured?!" Are both very well done.

[@revkaelenelord]

This is one of my favorite G'kar moments. A war-torn leader, standing in a chiffon tutu, one length of material stretched over his forehead to cover a gaping hole where one eye had been savagely removed. His world was his soul, so much so, that he endured 40 lashes, destined to kill at strike 40. But a demented ruler demanded a scream from him... and he screamed only as that last strike was given him. The charecter of G'kar becomes naked in that moment, that showed exactly what he had given for his people. He leaves them with their own ignorances, bc he had his people to save. I offer a cup up, filled to the brim in living honor, in memory to a charecter bigger than life, who only wanted what we all want and need... Freedom, Respect, Honor and Love, ( we can't forget the deep love that drove this Being known as G'kar )

[@nickmalachai2227]

"(The Centauri) are to be pitied. They are already on a course for self-destruction, they do not need help from us." One could say that it no longer matters that the Centauri started it, only that people are suffering.

[@trinitymplayers]

abridgedfanboy wrote: "I find it interesting that the Narn were about repeat history, only this time G'Kar put an end to it." At least for a time, he did. But in season 5, the Narn did get back with the aid of the Drazi, and G'Kar was unable to do anything about it.

[@girlgarde]

It shows that the Narns had quite a ways to go but at least they had the Humans, Minbari and the Alliance to help guide them plus G'kar passed the reigns of Narn ambassador to Babylon 5 to a worthy successor who he knew personally. Also, G'Kar was ON Centari Prime at the time of the attack and was likely displeased when he learned what his people had done and gave his government a hard time about it. In any event, it took G'kar a while to come around and realize that revenge wasn't the answer, it likely took the Narns a while too to realize the same thing.

[@danroden830]

@@girlgarde i think in the end neither the centauri nor the narn became more or ascended like the humans and minbari would. both remained lost people squabbling over millenia old injustices just like the shadow and vorlons.

[@Hyunckel]

The laugh at the end is not a sign of madness but a sign that I understand more about myself and the fact that none among you what ever your faction , order , specie will know what I've been through and from what I was able to come back. Only those who support from behind the scene are aware of the struggle I have to go through and the sacrifice I had to make to prove I was into this for the greater good. You might not trust me based on my past history but know this , i'm constantly being judged based on the choice I make and action I do. I have to answer to a higher power that can see right through me and probably know me more than I even know myself. So if that day ever come where someone ask me what I endured , I shall just laugh and turn away like Gkar did.

[@altrocks]

His laughter at the end is perfect. That's the moment he begins realizing just how lost his own people are and how similar they are to the Centauri

[@WildCard0315]

Witnessing your own people become the very same thing that they hate was the final straw that made G'Kar laugh.

[@aryanstanley3529]

"What have you endured?" "I watched every Byron-centric episode of Season 5."

[@DrJReefer]

And now I remember Byron Thanks

[@davidtucker9498]

My GOD man...

[@michaeldreibelbis9529]

You... are the hero we need... not the hero we deserve. I feel your pain.

[@Justanotherknucklehead]

Byron.now that's funny. Me.i watched every Byron eps X25 AND have been married X2.I HAVE SUFFERED!!!

[@23Revan84]

"Where were you?, what have you endured?"!!!!!!Holy shit I would have gone ape shit G'Lorn. Lets see he had to watch and suffer as his people get reenslave, his planet reoccupied, his planet went back to the stone age with Centari mass drivers, his people killed and murdered, do everything in his power to get weapons for the resistance, deal with Londo, seek sanctuary in Babylon 5, kicked off the council, later get tortured and lose an eye from emperor catugia, now see his people want revenge, install a dictator, and now question him what has he endured????

[@KoshVader]

Yeah, when I first saw this I almost spat out my tea and screamed: 'What is with this guy?!" at the screen! Did he not notice that he was short on one eye or something?

[@kamenridernephilim]

23Revan84 Not to mention come face to face with alien Eldritch abominations.

[@YouWillBeHappyOrElse]

That's ego talking. G'Kar has outgrown ego at this point.

[@mysticwolf75]

I remember when I watched this episode with my Dad, and after G'Kar walked away laughing, he said "I guess that's better than tearing that guy's head off". 😂

[@Ruosteinenknight]

And only having one eye, G'kar saw better than anyone with two.

[@Bloodymir88]

In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is a king.

[@danroden830]

he gained odins wisdom

[@randyranderson690]

Having one good eye myself, I found that statement accurate.

[@planetdisco4821]

@@Bloodymir88 you beat me to it! 👍

[@miafillene4396]

G'kar was Odin. Gained knowledge for the sacrifice of an eye.

[@tonoornottono]

covered in muscle-obstructing makeup, with ONE VISIBLE EYE, 2:31 is one of the most harrowing glares i’ve ever seen in my life. absolute juggernaut of an actor.

[@YuriPRIMErpg]

When I watched first episodes with G'Kar in Season 1, I could not have expected him to be the one with deepest and most tragic arc in this story. My god, this character evolved to such extent! Amazing!

[@UchihaOokami2596]

That was one of the shocking things for me. I didnt quite remember the beginning of the show but i remembered Citizen G’Kar, the wise holy man. Revisiting the series i was kinda shocked abit at the shear petty angry man he started as and got to experience his beautiful, tragic and utterly mastercrafted ascension. Londo always had that sense of being alittle noble but choosing to hide it DEEP beneath the debauchery and excess oc his species but G’Kar had a true struggle. Both were excellent parts of such an amazing series.

[@kuribayashi84]

For a second, he was clearly going to rush the guy in a rage. Then it looks like he was about to embark on an epic rant about what exactly he endured. And *then* the absurdity of the question hit him.

[@biscuitninja]

Wonderful acting, better than most sci-fi today. I always say, "I don't need to work against them, they will do worse to themselves than I could ever do".

[@kineticdeath]

When G'kar said how he could see better, he wasnt lying. Those other Narns still have both their eyes but were completely blinded by bloodlust

[@AbuMaia01]

"A person with one eye can see more than a person with two eyes. The person with one eye can see the other person's two eyes, while the person with two eyes...." - Victor Borge

[@warhorse03826]

I am reminded of when Washington found out his troops were planning on moving against congress and making him emperor, just after the end of the revolution. “Gentlemen, you must pardon me. I have grown old in the service of my country and now find that I am growing blind.”

[@TheOneWhoMightBe]

"I did not fight George the Third just to become George the First" or something like that.

[@davidkelly4210]

@@TheOneWhoMightBe G'Kar ripped off Washington.

[@bidenistechnicallyadictato738]

@David Kelly *It is an **_homage._* 🙂

[@YouWillBeHappyOrElse]

@@davidkelly4210 There is no shame in lighting your candle at the hearth of a great man.

[@jalarasstudios414]

I get the feeling that G'Kar chose to laugh because the only other option was to curl up into a ball and weep at the seeming futility of it all.

[@majormononoke8958]

@Josh M Well, actually not... The narn read his book and many seem to enjoy it, some of those ideas will come into the politics and narn society ...

[@InfernosReaper]

@@majormononoke8958 The best part of his book is that mysterious sphere. Though, its profound significance will be lost on so many who read that text.

[@DrownedInExile]

@@InfernosReaper It's the best part of the book!

[@InfernosReaper]

@@DrownedInExile Yes, a great addon contribution by the most devout worshiper of the Egyptian God of Frustration

[@christopherbacon1077]

It was that, cry or rip the other guy to pieces with his bare hands

[@demarcusfaulkner7411]

you ask a man who had his eye pulled from its socket what has he endured. He went through as much hell as one person could stand and not die.torture war enslaved and watching his people broken. Their are something's that cannot be put into words. He did right to walk away.

[@mountainstartemple6041]

2:16 ~ "I never thought you were coward G'Kar!" ..... "What have you endured?!" ~ G'Kar ... turns ..."what have I endured?!!" ... baffled, with a mixture of unbelievable confusion/humour/disbelief he walks away ~ there is no other possible response!

[@TheSchlex]

G'Kar is the the best written character I've ever seen!

[@stevecampbell9670]

G'kar and Londo together. Both were so complex and you came to root for them both after maybe thinking that they both were bastards at the beginning.

[@origilina5933]

Probably my most favorite scene in the whole series and I quote it so often in modern political discourse atleast in my head because only a few know it.

[@julianbryantjb]

Not only did he lose an eye he was publicly lashed in front of the emperor the royal court and his people. London even suggested to him to give in to the emperor's whim and cry out in order to save himself and his people because londo needed him to provide the distraction he needed to assassinate the emperor

[@rmsgrey]

The whipping to the edge of death was in private - Cartagia, the torturer, Londo, G'Kar, and I forget whether Vir and another guard or two were there too. There were plenty of other humiliations in public, but that scene was in private.

[@roguishpaladin]

​@@rmsgrey It was reasonably public. Check out kzbin.info/www/bejne/hZyklaZvfq9_jck - Cartagia not only has Centauri coutiers in attendance but also several Narns as witnesses. Cartagia liked to do things in his throne room (probably for show budgetary reasons).

[@InfernosReaper]

@@roguishpaladin The whipping and give out a cry wasn't that scene, but a previous one, and it was a fairly private affair.

[@johnlach2199]

The point where you realize that arguing isn't going to get you anywhere. Just laugh and walk away

[@xxlCortez]

G'Kar pretty much sees at this point that even as victors, the Centauri are doomed for defeat. Even during their height of power, their own decadence and overreach resulted their loss of former glory, not an outside enemy. He's right, it's pointless to fight them. If anything, it just gives them focus.

[@samanthapatrick4345]

G'kar became a much wiser person and leader from season 3 onwards that's I love about him he becomes wiser after his spiritual encounter with ambassador Kosh

[@cgmoran91]

One of my favorite G'kar scenes. The best reply to a young one has no idea what he did for his people.

[@paulwonderley538]

Man what a fucking a part and what a actor they can never remake this classic due to the fact that the actors who made it so impactful are no longer with us

[@OOTurok]

Laughing in the face of ignorance... because what else is there left to say, to those unwilling to learn.

[@wumpusrat]

Knowing that nothing he can say is going to convince them, and knowing that he CAN'T say a lot of the things he's actually gone through. So he just laughs at the futility of trying, and staggers off. Every scene with G'kar in it is a gem. I really need to rewatch the series.

[@milosznonyabuisnes3054]

The whole dynamic between Centauri and Narns is a good metaphor for toxic relationships. Specifically the kind where both parties have an obsession to make the other feel like shit. G'kar broke the pointless cycle of one-upping each other.

[@williammorahan4907]

Makes me wonder if you could make the same argument about the Cardassians being a “lost people” to a Bajoran the same way G’Kar did to a fellow Narn about the Centauri here; 1:52 Did the Dominion just accelerate the inevitable when they laid waste to Cardassia Prime in Deep Space Nine? kzbin.info/www/bejne/amjYdoycbN2drposi=XyFx89Gw9H5IAxgO

[@AlexanderofThebes]

I just love that this guy's face went from anger to what did I just say in an instance 2:33 like he knew he just said the dumbest thing ever and is now ready to be chewed out by G'Kar only for him to laugh

[@davidking6750]

"I never thought you were coward G;Kar! We suffered and died during their occupation, where were you? What have you endured?!" .... ~ "What have I endured?!!" G'Kar is frst confronting but then leaves ... laughing hysterically ... excellent scene!

[@danroden830]

someone said the dialog is dated? jesus this is strong stuff 30 years later.

[@mousenomiatadpole6437]

Oh, no, not quite 30 years! Not yet, anyway. And dated?!? Great writing is timeless. Which this is. Was. Oh, you know what I mean! And I sincerely wish Andreas Katsulas was still with us. I am such an idiot, that it took me too late to pay attention. Amazing, amazing, amazing. G'Kar is and will always be the best character of this series.

[@YouWillBeHappyOrElse]

They feel the dialogue is, like, dated? Because, like, nobody they know? Has EVER, like, talked like that? And nobody is even asking for each other's pronouns?

[@qpwodkgh2010]

G'Kar and Londo are my two favorite characters in Sci-Fi.

[@saratoga376]

Great scene, good writing and great acting by Andreas. "They are lossed people" gets me every time.

[@cleanerben9636]

The laugh is not what I expected

[@SapphireCrusader1988]

When G'Lorn says that they must strike back, I wanted G'Kar to say "With what?! Our fleets are shattered, our armies decimated, our colonies are in ruins and our cities are piles of rubble! What shall we use to exact our vengeance?! Sticks? Rocks? Harsh words?! Tell me, G'Lorn, what shall we use?!"

[@rmsgrey]

That would miss the point - suppose there was an entire battle-fleet available and all G'Kar needed to do was say the word, and it could go destroy the Centauri fleets, G'Kar would still be against sending it. The point is that they have better things to do than seeking vengeance. Even if the homeworld were fully rebuilt, the economy running better than ever, the colonies thriving, and the Narn military fully armed and equipped, they would have better things to do.

[@girlgarde]

That's what I was thinking too when I first saw this scene.

[@JamaicanCastle]

The Narn would only see that as a challenge to rise to - "how can we do this without enough resources?" rather than a genuine problem.

[@michaelriddick7116]

When he screams that the Centauri are a lost people my heart just shatters. 💔💔💔😭😭😭

[@ganados0]

When G'kar leaves and laughs, I gather what he said of the Centauri applies to his own people and he sees that.

[@ditchdigger5477]

What has G'Kar endured? The burden of Truth. "If all are to be saved, some must be sacrificed." -Kosh

[@YouWillBeHappyOrElse]

Thing is, whom does one have the RIGHT to sacrifice? That's right, only oneself. And so he did.

[@paulstone3590]

What have you endured? Powerful words. A powerful scene. Such meaning here. Why people will continue to watch B5. And what can G'kar do but laugh and a crazy laugh at that. Unless you have lived another's life what does another know of the pain and misery they have gone through. Why his response is a laugh and not a screaming tell all. To be wise is to accept others ignorance and walk away.

[@hairyrichardson8921]

"What have you endured!?" at first the question annoys G'Kar and then the outlandish presumptuousness of the question hits him and the only reaction possible is to laugh at the ridiculousness of it!

[@cgmoran91]

For those who want to re-watch the series. HBO Max has just released all 5 seasons.

[@biscuitninja]

Andreas Katsulas, such an incredible actor.

[@PapaBear816]

That poor simple fool was so lucky that wasn't just a little bit more of the old J'kar.

[@breacat]

The G'kar from the first season would've taken the throne without hesitation. This was character growth.

[@elricengquist9989]

Always loved G'kar how noble he was, even in the beginning he held himself in such a way that even when he was seeking something like revenge he seemed very regal an noble . Yet also later on he became a example of what the Shadows an Vorlons were meant to be, as guides an mentors. In one episode he states that his race is dying an how he spoke knew his race would die out, but spoke of how his race even with that fate should shepherd an teach the younger races to not go down the route they had. You could even look at the Narns an the Centory as a fledgling mirrors of what the Shadows an Vorlons might have started as, and how things might have changed if they did not take the same path they had taken.

[@YouWillBeHappyOrElse]

His choice of language at all times elevates his character. You can hear the poet in him, even when he's being a thug.

[@mousenomiatadpole6437]

I have to admit - G'Kar's maniacal laughter at the end? I did not expect that reaction when I first saw this. Now it's chilling, haunting, heartbreaking, and a huge "f*ck you" to the overall ignorance of his own people! Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant!

[@ApokWow]

Literally missing an eye that a torturer pulled out "What have you endured?!"

[@LtDavidB312]

G'Kar had so many fine moments and this is one of my favorites.

[@FinalFirebrand]

"...What have *I* endured...?" [sardonic laughter evolves into full mania]

[@smof1]

Kosh once said both the narn and centauri were a dying race, Gkar proved him only half right, the Narn likely made it to ascension just like the humans did. I dont know if the Centauri can claim that.

[@Turtle1631991]

This is wonderfully written and acted. To G'Kar "what have you endured?" was a joke. It is one of those situations where laughter is only choice you have. It is too absurd a question for words. Other characters don¨t know that but we are in on the joke because we saw it all.

[@kyrridas1573]

I love the way he shouts "are a lost people". He doesn't say it gleefully, as if his enemies are doomed. He says it woefully, as if losing a dear friend.

[@clairestark9024]

He sounds more frustrated than anything to, he sees it as obvious that they should save their people and doesn't know why he's having to deal with this bull.

[@Kalenz1234]

He should have removed his eye patch. Went face to face almost touching their noses so he could get a good look into the empty eye socket and then ask slowly. "What do you think I endured?"

[@rmsgrey]

"Look me in the _eye_ and ask that question"

[@catwhowalksbyhimself]

He could have. The old G'Kar likely would have done something like this. But he's been through so much, he knows their challenge is meaningless and not worth his time or effort to refute.

[@Ugh-Fudge_Bwana]

@@catwhowalksbyhimself Yeah this G'Kar had absolutely nothing to prove to these delusion fools. Laughing at their absurdity was about all he could do.

[@kmarasin]

I mean, it's not like G'Lorn couldn't see the bloody bandage around his head. Removing it adds nothing that isn't already in plain view, other than visceral horror. It's an argument from pity, an fallacy I can't see this G'Kar ever resorting to.

[@frankmann1060]

"What have I endured?!" Pulls up bandage. "Why don't you tell me?"

[@MrPartisanhack]

"What have I endured?" "Look into my eye you little punk!"

[@owlsayssouth]

Best knight of the round table.

[@tenhirankei]

"What have you endured?" This will sound odd, but the moment G'Kar turned to face the idiot that said those words the look on his face reminded me so much of Steve "Patch" Johnson from Days of Our Lives.

[@Moardieb]

I love the character of Gkar and the arc he goes through, how arrogant and full of himself he is in the early seasons, a constant rivalry with the comic relief character of Lando, to becoming this humbled and wise bad ass while Lando grows more powerful but also broken.

[@R_SENAL]

Thank you for posting this. Its not what I was looking for but maybe its what I needed.

[@jefftappan3091]

They show us a side of ourselves that we don't want to admit exists.

[@EdricLysharae]

The ending of this scene sends chills up my spine.

[@jefftappan381]

The line between genius and madness is but a razor's edge .

[@jasonwhite7905]

A distant relative of mine (4th cousin) had a similar experience. He recognized the need for a higher spiritual power to keep one humble or risk becoming the monster he sought to fight off. I had to be in my late 30's before I understood his motivations. It's a difficult lesson to learn, and one so easily missed. How many men in history took the time to see themselves as the monsters they were instead of becoming dragons. My dear cousin, George Washington, wherever you are... you have quite the legacy to live up to.

[@Cirithungul]

I always wonder at people who need an invisible being looking at them at all times, to be decent. Why not just be good because it's nice?

[@jasonwhite7905]

@@Cirithungul kind of like how atheists treat science like a person, and blindly believe that science will prove their world views correct, despite the lack lack of probability (being larger than a googleplex)? I could be mistaken, but when has there been a human society that liked accountability?

[@Cirithungul]

@@jasonwhite7905 nope. Atheists don't "believe" things, just like scientists don't. Science knows and admits lack of knowledge and leaves anything open to being changed as new info comes in. Unlike theists who pronounce their unproven beliefs as fact with zero evidence and expect others to believe and in many historical and modern examples, are willing to torture and kill to make others believe. The God of the gaps is slowly losing as we fill in the gaps with scientific understandings.

[@jasonwhite7905]

@@Cirithungul right...

[@Cirithungul]

@@jasonwhite7905 yes, I am...

[@tricky2258]

Andrea Katsulas really shone in this scene. A great lesson about war and revenge....only leads to self destruction!!

[@thomasjones3508]

My favorite scene from B-5. The laugh at the end was chilling to me...

[@TaliaIGhul]

I actually laughed with him because that guy asked the dumbest question in the series. I mean he's was clearly scarred from being tortured and lost a freaking eye.

[@iamtenzin4409]

+Talia al Ghul And how sad that as he walks away that he knows the object of his scorn just simply does not get it. How oft has this been repeated in human history? I'd cry if I knew for sure.

[@jefftappan381]

Thomas Jones It's the Riddler from the 1966 Batman series.

[@ProperLogicalDebate]

His response was almost as affective as when Deelan said one word to the "reporters" and that word was "good bye".

[@flashtu]

That insane laughing...shiver my spine

[@ninjabearpress2574]

Peter Jurasik said once Andreas was in costume and makeup, you were talking to his character until the costume and makeup came off and this scene alone, makes me wish I could've bought G'Kar some Swedish meatballs. That would be one truly interesting dinner conversation.

[@sammessenger1170]

Overall I think DS9 has B5 beaten for best classic 90s/00s Sci-Fi series, but damn if B5 doesnt have higher peaks. I can hardly think of any moments from DS9 that beat out Katsulas's "Are a lost people!" for raw emotion and realism of delivery. What a great series.

[@Lightsoul1987]

The bad season 5 hurt the series a lot. Babylon 5 should have ended after season 4. That was an excellent ending.

[@Lorgar64]

Remember when G'Kar was willing to cook to death in an elevator if it meant a centauri would die too?

[@McRocket]

The most interesting - and sad part - of this scene to me was how quickly his follower turned from admiration of G'Kar to hatred/insult of him. This shows how fickle and weak 'people' like that character are. All they know is hate and anger. And if you are not with them - then you are against them (in their minds). There is no in between. Unfortunately, there are far, FAR too many human beings like that character. People who are loyal only to their weaknesses, pain and anger/hatred. It's not the number of people that follow you that matters...but the quality of the people that follow you that does.

[@vguyver2]

That's the difficulty of what a good leader has to face. You have to be skilled and honest enough that you they place faith in you, but also stern enough to push against them when they go towards a self destructive tendency. Unfortunately most leaders are not of that quality. They either lack the discipline to push back for the greater good, or are the type that give what the people want so they can gain more power. G'Kar has become the leader they need, but isn't the leader they want, they want a propped up strongman. Someone already pointed out George Washington's willingness to give power, and that's a great quality in a leader as it means they aren't try to assure or gain absolute power. It also showed he was indeed trying to look out for them when he pushed back against his his former troops and citizenry when the rebelled. He instead appealed to their good nature and won them over instead of causing the US to go in arnachey and possibly civil war on par with the French Revolution and it's bloodiness. This is sadly not something people appreciate. Even in the US, you have people who would rather elect strongmen and shallow individuals rather then men of integrity. Often enough they simply elect someone who starts off honest but becomes ineffective as the system corrupts their nature. In this case, it's the Centauri, they are a people long since corrupted and in decline because of the systems of government and bad rule for too long that have never been resolved which is what Spurns poor Lando into his terrible fate as everything built for the destruction of Centauri had all it's foundations laid long ago. I can't help but feel that the US is currently in that middle ground today. And please no mention of any specific politicians in any replies. No intention to bring actual politics here. I just want us to reflect on how B5 had been influenced by real world parallels and the similarities it's led up to.

[@LeChevalierduLys]

I Truly miss that show,even if i have it on DVD. Part of me would love a remake, most of me fears a remake ...

[@raenfox]

G'Kar was hands-down the best character in the series. Also the one with pretty much the most character development.

[@BlacKnightRising]

by far my favorite character...