What Hath Tim Keller Wrought?

[@hellofromJudy]

I so appreciate these podcasts. My son has been following to Keller for years and I did not know what Keller was about. I could not understand what I was seeing in the changes of my son's beliefs. There was such an embracing of the world and the world's values. Now I get it.

[@jordancain6491]

When I was in college, I read through John MacArther’s classic, “A Tale of Two Sons,” and my friend encouraged me to read Keller’s work, “The Prodigal God,” so I did and I did not like it. For one thing, I didn’t like the title of the book! GOD isn’t Prodigal! Now, I understand the meaning behind the title but HE’s still just! I’m the rebel in need of Grace so why are we attaching this name to GOD himself? I also didn’t like how he conflated the people sitting in the pews as older brothers and the outcast and marginalized as younger brothers and I’m only paraphrasing but the assumption behind this line of reasoning is that those in the pews are nothing but a bunch of judgmental goodie two shoes that despise others but nothing could be further from the truth. Maybe, those folks are just hungry for the Word of GOD and longing to fellowship with the Saints!!! Some of us have walked a hard road due to our sin and we find much solace and peace within the house of the Lord but Mr. Keller seems to lump everyone together as a bunch of older brothers. Does he have the gift of reading people’s hearts? Well, some of that may be true but there are more Redeemed prodigals than he thinks... It almost seems that he’s actually defending unredeemed rebels by ironically defending the younger brother. First of all, the younger brother only came home, “when he came to himself (KJV).” I’m sure he would have love a bowl of soup and a bed to sleep on but sometimes sinners need to spend some time in the pig pen before they come to themselves honestly before GOD.

[@designbuild7128]

@@jordancain6491 thanks for sharing that. I haven't read Johnny Mac's book, but our church used the prodigal God book in a study. i had the same thoughts as you did (but didn't know much about Keller at that time) but felt that some of the book was redeemable. This leftist ideology creeping in is to pick the disenfranchised person and make them the lesser sinner: make them noble, which just inverses the pharisaical response and stone casting. Right judgment that Christ calls us to in Matt 7 and Jn 7 is very difficult for all of us, but we don't throw out the institutions in the process and replace them with the 'sick' culture in need of a physician.

[@brandonhartgraves5095]

Praying for your son. Lord give mercy and discernment. Wake him up as you did me

[@johntobey1558]

A better book is James Montgomery Boice's two Kingdom's

[@johntobey1558]

Or Francis Schaffer Sr.'s how then shall we live?

[@jeffwangsgaard8542]

One thing that always bothered me about that section of Keller’s book was that the father was NEVER criticizing the older brother for having remained home and staying obedient! The father told the older brother that he was always with him and that all that he has was his. He never said that the older brother was wrong for keeping his commands. Keller is so lost. It makes me very sad for all the people that follow him. Thanks for this, Jon!

[@peterchen16888]

I think people often forget history. When Tim Keller was in college feeling bad for his white guilt, and adopting his Marxist ideology, my great grandparent were dying of starvation under Mao. I do take issue with Keller on a theological level, but I really call him immoral on a personal level. It is immoral to adopt Marxism! I don’t care who these Marxist are. These supposed scholars have no excuse for their immoral playing with Marxism when my great grandparents starved under Communism. Over 50 to 100,000,000 Chinese people die under Mao’s Communism. There is no excuse for this evil ideology to rise again in our streets and these supposed scholars are arguing in behalf of it.

[@sheilasmith7779]

So true. Keller knows nothing of the evils of communism.

[@foxnod]

@@sheilasmith7779 He probably knows and is just fine with it.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@Richard A I agree. Tim Keller is the snake oil salesman. Sounds good, looks good, false promises offered, but rotten to the core. If christians read scripture there is NO social justice....only justice. And justice pertains to society, thus it is " social," which IS how we treat each other with fairness and kindness. If we do that we have justice.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@Kizito Kanu I dont know his intentions. Its hard to accept that his deception is deliberate and trying to determine that drives me nuts. What I must remind myself is that all of us have access to 1. Scripture and 2. The Holy Spirit. This includes Tim Keller. He is responsible for the state of his soul, but also carries even greater responsibility for teaching proper doctrine to the church. God have mercy on his soul, or not.

[@sheilasmith7779]

@Richard A What attracts christians to the prosperity gospel, word of faith gospel, and social justice gospel is worldly desire. Its the " feel good," nature of these teachings, rather than obedience to the God message of scripture. Its the creation of God's image according to our human desires. The simple truth is that none of these preachers would be successful if followers 1. Wanted truth, no matter how unattractive and 2. Read scripture to find the truth. I am astounded at how little many christians know of scripture; lazy? or just want some preacher to tell them what to believe. To them, I would say, "If you believe that scripture is the word of God, why are you not reading the word?" "Why are you relying on anyone to tell you what God says?" Then I've encountered christians that are ambivalent about the bible. They'll say, " We'll, some of the bible I agree with, but not all." These folks end up in Kellers church, instead of the church of Christ. I dont pray for Keller but do pray for the " christians," that follow him and other false teachers, like lap dogs.

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

It just occurred to me, and I don't think I mentioned it in the video, but the book Prodigal God is all about the parable of the Prodigal Son. So when Keller talks about older and younger brothers that's what he's referring to. He creates a category of person based off of the "older" and "younger" and applies it to modern times. Not that this makes anything better, but I should have mentioned that's the assumption he's arguing from.

[@johntobey1558]

My old Pastor left his Church in Buckingham, Pa and has started his own Church. . .Prodigal Church. It is literally named Prodigal Church. This man worshiped at the same Church in tge PCA in Philly. He had him as a professor at Westminster Seminary. The same one that had the liberation theologians you made reference to last year. Talk to me brother. This really happened in 2020. All true.

[@johntobey1558]

There are many people when they move to our State transfer membership from Redeemer Presbyterisn to Covenant.

[@DaveHG650]

This is the most enlightening podcast I have heard you do. The exposing of Tim Keller is what we experienced a year ago when trying to talk to our pastor about our issues with Tim Keller. Sadly Tim Keller is his spiritual hero and he does not see what we see. Thank you for naming names and bringing clarity and reassurance that what we saw was really truly what we saw and currently see in Tim Keller and the gospel coalition. Thank you for your commitment to the hospital and defending it You have been a lifeline for us!

[@DaveHG650]

Meant to say gospel and not hospital 😂

[@megofiachra3247]

I did notice years ago as a younger believer that the Jews missed the Messiah because they thought they knew what they were looking for and weren't willing to see the actual thing. I do take that as a warning for myself, and I pray to stay humble and not let my traditions replace Biblical truth.

[@dabhidhm4093]

I'm so tired of the self-hating weasel pastors of Big Eva. When you start saying that your faithful congregation are all Pharisees and unrepentant sinners are your preferred crowd, it's time to quit pretending and leave the ministry. Why even bother giving people the Gospel if it's just going to make them into Pharisees? Do they even realize that's what they are saying? Meanwhile they keep getting invited to write for The Atlantic and an entire generation goes happily to hell, thinking that the only sin is the believing that there is such a thing as sin.

[@rainking50]

Mathew 9:13: Go and learn what this means: ‘I desire mercy, and not sacrifice.’ For I came not to call the righteous, but sinners.

[@dabhidhm4093]

@@rainking50 Seems like a non-sequitur in this context. I'm saying that pastors should not characterize fellow Christians as "pharisees" and prefer the company of UNREPENTANT sinners. That's not saying that pastors shouldn't call sinners to repentance, or that pastors shouldn't associate with sinners.

[@ForHisGlory731]

The day I got saved, it wasn't because a church was nice to me, did some big show with fireworks. It was because the word was preached to me on the streets.

[@andrewcosta2760]

Bingo

[@daviddavis450]

Thank you Jon. I appreciate how you bring commonly arguments made by left leaning professing Christians to their logical conclusion. Please continue to glorify the Gospel of Jesus Christ while destroying the arguments and lofty opinions raised against the knowledge of God.

[@rosennahickman6511]

Enjoyed learning from you today. I have been in a church- The Vineyard, for the last 30 years of my 55 year walk with Christ and was not aware of where the undercurrent was leading until 2019. Thankful for you and ADs books which I am reading and rereading. As a side note, I saw a Facebook post which said if you want to find Jesus, look for the poor and he will be there. When I read the Bible I see that Jesus was attracted to the poor in spirit because some of his most beloved friends were wealthy people like Mary Martha and Lazarus.

[@beverlylewis3467]

Read Matthew 25. And nowhere does scripture say Lazarus was wealthy

[@sethbrickley4308]

Thank you Jon for being such a steady hand in a confusing time!

[@andrewduggan4836]

Labelling normal believers who endeavor to walk in the way of the Lord as Pharisees has been a tactic of the antinomians like Keller for a long time.

[@stephenfennell]

In answer to Jon Harris's question at 43:24 yes that was enlightening. Thank you.

[@sheilasmith7779]

Is " social justice," a sub category of justice, or is some unique justice category? Seems straight forward in scripture that justice applies to society. Could anyone make a case that there is a category called, " almost pregnant?" Isnt it as simple as justice or injustice?

[@tanks1945]

So would Tim Keller consider John the Baptist a prude and unloving for calling out King Herod's sin on how he married his wife? Keller wants the approval of the world but does not understand you don't water down the message of Christ to appeal to world. Keller has forgotten that Christ told us his message would be an offence to many.

[@craigchambers4183]

The Pharisees were not "Bible believing," they were Bible twisting, Bible readers looking only to justify themselves by making the Law mean what they wanted, not what is actually meant. So I don't pass over that remark. I'd say a lot more, but now I am just figuring out what some fellow pastors are really saying.

[@brandonhartgraves5095]

So true. John the Baptist exemplified 'Bible believing' but Keller doesn't want to go there

[@SerenityNow22]

The point at the end about Jesus not railing against the Pharisees until they openly rejected him is so spot on. He was teaching to them as much as anyone else. Just read through half of Luke and never thought of it that way before.

[@dubyag4124]

I saw a debate between Owen Strachan and a woke progressive pastor who said "I love Jesus, I tolerate Paul." and Strachan literally mouthed "wow" in response. That is exactly how Keller and so many of the progressives feel: "I just want to follow Jesus". Yet we are disciples in the context of the Church, the bride of Christ. How do we learn how the church is to work in this world? Primarily from Paul. In the epistles do we see the irreligious "constantly" being attracted to the church as Keller wishes? I don't think so. It's the gathering of believers, who were discipled and disciplined and put out if needed. Keller has a disconnect between the church and God's love and plan for the church - he definitely seems to have an axe to grind and goes out of his way to vilify the "religious". But what is a Pharisee really? One who loves praise of men and does not love God. Does that describe us conservative deplorables? I don't think so - imperfect? Certainly, but we certainly love God and want to love others in way that pleases God (not men).

[@megofiachra3247]

There is a (now open) attack on the Bible being the infallible Word of God And the attack is from within the church. What that man was intimating is that Paul’s words differ from God’s words (Jesus). He doesn’t believe the Bible is Truth.

[@orbyfan]

When the apostles wrote their epistles, they did so with plenipotentiary authority, i.e., with the fully delegated authority of Jesus Christ Himself. If He had been there addressing these topics, what's in the epistles is exactly what He would have said. We're to take the epistles as having the same authority as the words of Christ Himself.

[@roryhand6650]

I find it strange that folks would even say "I love Jesus and tolerate Paul", in reference to Jesus' "openess" and Paul's "conservativism" - since I would consider the things that our Lord says about hell, plucking sin out of your life, giving up your life, and how all secrets, good and bad, will be revealed one day, to be some of the most terrifying and sobering parts of scripture. But I guess people stop at "judge not".

[@KarinAllison]

I have a friend who ministers to women with porn addiction and she shares how many women, who look middle class, middle of the road in every way, come up to her after her talks (at churches) with tears in their eyes. They are broken! They just don't look all rough and tatted up or well-worn. How simplistic! Or women who carry shame from sexual abuse, very private pain, but their bougie Christmas sweater has you judging them. Edgy and cool with blue hair and a criminal past doesn't mean "better Christian" or "better suited for entry into the kingdom". This kind of reasoning Keller puts forth here makes me angry. It's surprisingly shallow. Stop looking at the outside.

[@johntobey1558]

Amen.

[@rosehammer9482]

I wonder what Tim Keller would think of Andrew Murray and his collection of writings in The Practice of Gods Presence. I stopped reading the books of these past 20 years and went back to reading Spurgeon RA Torrey Martin Lloyd Jones and George Mullers testimony to the greatness of the God he served. My main read is scripture verse by verse…book by book. Genesis to Revelation… then read it again. He speaks to us through His word and gives us understanding.

[@chrish5791]

It is the living Word of God, that is why it is fresh, and applicable to every aspect of your life, every time you read, and re-read it. It always amazes me how the Holy Spirit makes a portion of Scripture, that I have read many times, perfectly fitting and relevant to my current situation.

[@CraigStewart]

If you’re not reading the Holy scriptures for yourself, ministers like Tim Keller will preach the way, the truth and the life right out of you.

[@sheilasmith7779]

So true. The more we read, study and understand scripture for ourself, the less likely we will fall for false teaching or teachers. Just because something sounds good or virtuous doesnt mean it is good or virtuous. Just because some one claims that a problem exists doesnt mean it does. While there is and will always be injustices, there is NO SYSTEMIC racial injustice in America.

[@gwilson314]

Behind his Marxism and other heresies, Keller seeks to validate the feelings of unbelievers (about the church, "religion," the Bible) at the expense of the faithful. This is why the believer is compared to the Pharisees, whereas the unbeliever living in sin is one step away from being the woman at the well or prodigal son who returns. The fruit of this when coming from a well-known pastor is that it validates the scoffer's skepticism and weakens the faith of the Christian. The true irony is how he rightly sees how Christians of the first century were slandered by being called "atheists" because they believed in one God, were seen as non-pious because they had no physical temple, etc. but doesn't see how it might be that the slander against God's people has remained while the reasons have changed. Now Christians are seen as Pharisees by even Keller himself, apparently because we're against open displays of homosexuality or other sinful patterns that can take root in an apostatizing society. Similarly, his comparisons between 1st century Judea and Galilee and 21st century America are missing a lot of context. It isn't quite true that Jesus' teachings attracted the irreligious. For one, there was no large secular push for Jews of that day living in those regions, so "irreligious" doesn't mean what he wants you to think it does. But beyond this, it's clear that the dichotomies present in the passages he cites are those between humble and proud, of those who know they are sinners and need forgiveness against those who see their hearts as righteous because their exteriors are white-washed. To rebuff Keller's entire system, the gospel is not a social message. It is a personal one, meant to penetrate the heart and divide even soul and spirit. The thing is, all types of churches have been tried in recent years. Some churches have become so open to alternate lifestyles and outsiders that they've ceased to adhere to any sense of orthodox teaching or practice. The results have not been a coming to the Lord by "outsiders" or the "irreligious," but a loss of the faith in the West.

[@timbushong4387]

"Keller seeks to validate the feelings of unbelievers" THAT is a brilliant and focused insight - excellent point. Nailed it...

[@pilgrimonanarrowway2034]

Beautiful. You nailed it

[@transparentzwindows]

Thx for exploring Big Eva Woo. In becoming reformed I started attending a PCA church after reading a Tabletalk article from a pastor in Seattle. Turns out he despised R.C. Sproul and thought his contengency in the PCA needed to be confronted and told to repent. He eventually was defrocked over inappropriate attention towards the secretary even after he had her marginalized from community and fired from her job. (He's now a pastor in another denomination). Plenty of edgey, woke types slinging offenses towards those they thought of as pedestrian Christians.

[@CuriousGeorge13]

Ever get a sense that some Big Eva people like Keller are embarrassed to be Christians? Not because some Christians are hypocrites or anything like that, but because it does not receive the admiration from the intellectual elites that people like him desire. I wonder if they read verses like 1 Corinthians 1:26-27 and cringe at the thought of God choosing the unsophisticated, common person to shame the wise? Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

[@timoheule]

Right. He could just distance himself from the Benny Hinns and the Jim Bakers, Joel Osteens and Todd Whites and faithfully preach expository sermons twice every Sunday. But he doesn't. He want to be accepted by the "academics" or "the world". They only accept false teachers and prophets....

[@jackieroberts9180]

He’s finally reading his more Bible now that he has terminal pancreatic cancer. Praying that he will finally see Christ for who he said he is and his ministry. He considers his ministry as nothing compared to Christ. Pray that he becomes a Christ follower while God allows him time to do so.

[@johnforjesus2823]

Top 5 best podcast episodes of the year! Must listen.

[@heyitsyeh]

I break the stereotype, my older sibling lives in another state while I live 25 minutes away from my parents

[@whowhatwherewhy1434]

We are studying this book in our small Group and i have appreciated some of the illustration of the story but had some questions about some of the conclusions

[@chrstfllwr1]

Read his academic stuff from 30 years ago when he was at Westminster. His social justice worldview is apparent then.

[@TheOtherPaul]

That the Pharisees were the "Bible believing" religious ones as Keller says is so utterly detached from reality that I'm almost offended. As per Mark 7 and Matthew 15, Christ castigated the Pharisees precisely because they *didn't* follow holy scripture, instead preferring the "traditions of the elders". As Christ said, "You have nullified the word of God on account of your tradition." What a disgusting lie by Keller. Only a worldview as decrepit as progressivism could so casually make this lie.

[@markbrooks8623]

Correct. Therein lies the real deception at the heart of Keller's enterprise. He first lies about what the BIble says, and then draws a lesson from the lie that suits his purpose. That he wasn't called out for this years ago testifies to a certain rot in Reformed circles.

[@glassworks4850]

The irony is there are no "Bible believing pharisees". A sleight of hand to tickle the ears of the culture.

[@juliemayes2027]

I just pray that Tim is brought to his Salvation through his illness and repentance from his aberrant theology

[@elainelight9286]

In answer to the title of this broadcast, Tim Keller has wrought heresy and apostasy. Need I say more?

[@JonathanGrandt]

Tim Keller… craft, subtlety, repeat.

[@elizabethcochran3395]

The Prodigal God is the only book of Keller's that I have read. I read it in high school and thought it was pretty good. I think I really only took away the point he made about the elder brother being disconnected from the father too and trying to work to earn approval. I could relate to that as a youngster who always did what she was told and people who she respected generally liked. I thought the concept spoke rather well to your church-raised kid who thought she had her life all together because she was so "good" and lost track of how much she still needed Jesus. When I read the book 10 years ago, social justice wasn't the buzz it is today, so the allusions or nearness to that type of message I didn't pick up on either out of ignorance or inexperience. I kinda want to re-read the book and see if I can see signs now of where Keller was headed. I didn't follow him (social media or otherwise) outside of reading the book and didn't know his work went in this wish-washy, watered down, pro-sjw direction until guys like Jon pointed it out and started warning people.

[@Tmcgraw79q]

I read that book and thought it was pretty good along with Counterfeit God's and conversations with Jesus. Also, John macarthur wrote a book about the prodical story as well that's great.

[@glassworks4850]

@@Tmcgraw79q John MacArthur's treatment of the Prodigal Son parable, I think, is the best there is. It's called "The Tale of two Sons".

[@dear_totheheart]

Related to your question at 23:20, Tertium Quid actually means “third way” or a “middle course” or something that can’t be classified into either one group or another while maintaining similarities or shared aspects in Latin. It’s like suggesting that there is either a mediator or a different path and a better option above the fray of faction, bias, or corruption and is more of like “the true path” - you see it invoked by the Old Republicans/Jeffersonians tradition following after the Antifederalist legacy. Interesting to see how it’s being used in this context for Christianity, perhaps a good example of how Christianity bridged the divide between the Jews and gentiles as well as how it harmonizes, identifies truth, and brings out the best in all cultures, traditions, and even aspects of the secular world. Also intriguing to consider or reflect more on - one of the few things within this article that I think is accurate, yet he uses it improperly, only suggesting that one side (“the outcasts of the Church”) is attracted to and justified whereas the other (righteous and moral individuals striving after virtue and truth) is being demonized…when the concept of Tertium Quid is more of a shared or unifying factor between the two groups. More than anything Christianity should prove that ALL are called to holiness and refining one’s spirit and the society, culture, and world around them to replicate the character and heart of Jesus and the ideal of Heaven to the extent possible here on earth

[@Playlist849236]

Finally someone pointing out Tim Keller's misinterpretations.

[@bsmb2017]

Jesus did attract the irreligious however he never left them in their sin.

[@mary-janechambers3596]

Exactly! He said he didn’t call the (self) righteous but sinners to repentance.

[@jackieroberts9180]

What does it prophet a man to gain the whole world any yet lose his own soul? What can a man give in exchange for his soul?

[@marcyoverby3120]

I remember in 2020 in my neck of the woods Richfield Minnesota they started to change the names of some of our lakes. Name that have been there since I was a kid. Could never figure out why they wanted to change the name..That has been going on for a while...

[@hughmccann919]

Dude, good insights once you get to them! You need an editor or director, brother. You’re forever in rambling chatter to get to the point. This is said in love, Jon. And I appreciate what you do. I have been forwarding this video since I saw it on Jan.11, 2022. Keller knows what he’s doing.

[@janekrut2799]

Thank you.

[@SomeGuy-hr5og]

I've listened to many right wing and left wing atheists online, and the one who have been far more of "seekers" in regards to the Christian faith have easily been the right wing ones, hands down. And the "buttoned-up older brother" Christians have been very friendly and welcoming towards them in reaction. Why are progressive Christians not wanting to explore this far more fertile soil?

[@andrewcosta2760]

When I first read this book, I thought it was trash, and your comment is exactly the thought I had while reading it.

[@pilgrimonanarrowway2034]

Let the lying lips be mute, Which speak arrogantly against the righteous With pride and contempt- Psalms 31:18 I have to pray for strength to love TK and his friends. I'm struggling tbh. But obeying God is what I'll do, but these things are breaking my heart

[@kzuk9237]

What is the book that you reference written by a group of Presbyterian pastors?

[@regine3147]

Not a fan of TK. Read the Prodigal God - did the study with my house church. The heading alone was a warning sign to me. I can't put my finger on it but I cannot listen to him. 😕

[@matthewherren]

GTY, blogging about mysticism, dedicated some of their blogs to the issue between Jonathan Edwards and William DeArteaga during the time of the great awakening. DeArteaga accused Edwards and the other faithful Christians of Pharisaism. However, he wrongly defines Pharisaism which really was faithful biblical Christianity. Similarities with Tim?

[@Apeleutheros80]

tertium quid: 1. a middle course or an intermediate component 2 a third party of ambiguous status 3.something intermediate between two classifications I find Keller's assertion to be a bit off the mark here. It's almost like he is attempting to accuse the conservative church of being a bunch of out of touch, pharisaic, moralists, while presenting an ambiguous 'third way' that appeals to the younger generations through some kind of contextualization of the gospel. Even though I originally came from the demographic he seems to be trying to appeal to, I wasn't saved through some type of cultural contextualization. I was saved because the word of God in its purity hit me powerfully and changed me from the inside out. It was a complete shock to my whole being and it was a wonderful thing. Even though I admit I may have some struggles with churchianity and how starchy some of my fellow Presbyterians can be, I do understand that we are united by our mutual faith in Christ and not by the understanding of each others own personal superficial circumstances. Our motivation should not be to be heard, validated, and/or understood, but rather, through repentance and faith, to understand Him (as revealed in His word) and be transformed by the renewal of our minds.

[@BrotherHagfish]

"Tertium quid" means something like "the third what"... as in, the "third way" between two options

[@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast]

Oh that would be a very Keller concept!

[@whowhatwherewhy1434]

That was actually one of the few things I liked 8n the book…the term is a law term and it basically means a combination of two things.

[@Yesica1993]

What book was written about him?

[@kzuk9237]

I have always been uncomfortable with the philosophical approach of Keller and how people hang on his “wise” words when in reality, he is constantly twisting and re-writing verses to match his own spin on things. His tweets and writings are so vague that in the end, most people don’t really know what he is even talking about. He doesn’t preach the gospel, he preaches Kellerism. People are drawn to him for his “smarts”, his high talk, his philosophical ideas because he comes across in a way that he is above the common man and woman because of his educated approach.

[@dabhidhm4093]

Keller's boomer take on the prodigal son is total cringe. The point of the story is that God is of infinite mercy, extending even to narcissistic idiots who blow their inherited fortunes on pleasures and come home crying and empty-handed. It's not that the prodigal is somehow more acceptable to God than the elder brother who didn't squander his inheritance. The point is not "don't be the elder brother", it's "understand that even if you're the prodigal, you can come home to your Father." And parenthetically, "if you are the elder brother, don't despise sinners who return to God." The elder brother is a footnote.

[@gwilson314]

The prodigal son is also a picture of the Gentiles (who will come to faith in Christ and the God of Jacob), whereas the older son represents the Jews who respond in jealousy to the Father's forgiveness (see Romans 11:13-14).

[@benjamingallows]

The whole big brother/bohemian/bourgeois sounded like something you’d read in the Atlantic or NY Times, not a book by a Christian author. But I guess that’s the whole point of the book? Edit: Ted Talk, pretty much sums it up.

[@timoheule]

David Wilkerson was an effective minister in New York. (Whatever you think of him) Did he not prove the opposite of Kellers thesis? Jesus builded upon the work of John the Baptist, who called for repentance. When you grow up in the bad side of town, you struggle every moment of the day against immorality and sin because it is everywhere. The New Age people argue in the line of Keller. God is not like the God of the Church, but he is like the Spirit of New Age. When surrounded by "spiritual people", as a Christian you have to point to our foundation, the Scriptures.

[@aztec0112]

It is my understanding that Keller will have an opportunity to explain his take on Scripture to the Author soon enough.

[@pilgrimonanarrowway2034]

You are right.

[@a5dr3]

Great quote by Tim. He’s absolutely correct. And I’m as far right as you can get.

[@glassworks4850]

The best treatment on the Prodigal Son parable, I think, is John MacArthur's "Tale of the two Sons".

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

34:00 The analogy should be that the Gospel is a net! They fish with nets in the Bible and are made "fishers of men".

[@PrentissYeates]

I wonder, if Keller found himself at a homeless shelter, would he present the gospel or would he pine away the social injustice of poverty and how the government needed to do more?

[@jackuber7358]

This is such a testimony to the gross false teachings of Keller and his blatantly heretical pragmatism and social justice. It is such a tragedy how one man can cause so much evil and corruption in the body of Christ. What a winsomely evil man. Maranatha!

[@theodorejohnson3459]

The religious people of Jesus' time were not "Bible" believers just as the religious people of our time are not

[@johntobey1558]

At the time most of tge letters in the Canon of what would become the New Testament had not been written yet.

[@LittleBritchesAB75]

Excellent; thank you!!😁

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

So the Pharisees who rejected God and rather indulged the way of their own culture, they are equated to those today who are regenerate and love God; and those who accepted Jesus and changed their ways, they are equated to those today who have yet to accept the Gospel and are still indulging the way of their own culture. I sure feel smarter when I listen to Keller, but then I remind myself not to grade on a curve.

[@bobpaul4572]

I remember a Markist college professor I had many yrs ago. He asked the class: Does anyone know who Saul Alinisky is? I answered: he's a Radical. The professor pumped his fist with glee.....echoing the chant "Radical, Radical"! Im sure that Tim Keller can quote Alinsky, Marx and Lenin verbatim; and also shout with glee: Radical, Radical! Oye-Vai!

[@JerettOlson]

I will have to look at Kellers book again.

[@trouthunter555]

I would like to hear your thoughts concerning the missional church movement Tim Keller started. I think that the movement is a disguised seeker sensitive deceptive promotion.

[@leawilliams8476]

Pope changed the Lords Prayer in 2019. AMORC Rosicrucians lobbied for this in 1936.

[@loiscarteaux9389]

Love your work, but as we listened to this, it was very hard to follow. So please keep exposing false teachers but would find it more helpful if linked their errors in theology/doctrine with scripture that refutes the errors in a systematic fashion. That helps us share with church leaders who need to understand. Thanks

[@wjglll340]

or make your own podcast

[@loiscarteaux9389]

@@wjglll340 now that would really be confusing!🤪 As I'm old and thankful I can text. Jon normally does a great job but this was a little confusing.

[@brentbergman1738]

I offended some people when when I said we would not support Samaritan's purse shoeboxes in exporting cheap Americanism. Does that count Tim?

[@mary-janechambers3596]

Some of the comments suggest that Keller is not saved- I can’t believe that, otherwise all the social justice warriors (like many in the SBC) would be unsaved.

[@pilgrimonanarrowway2034]

TK is a SJW

[@orbyfan]

"For there are certain men crept in unawares..." Jude 4.

[@bigcalvin]

Keller is a false teacher at best. I have no idea whether he has saving faith… I struggle to think a person that hates and attempts to subvert all that is good is yet a lover of God.

[@chriskennedy8514]

What book was written against Tim Keller?

[@lindseyswinborne4985]

Engaging Keller

[@wk1810]

"The kind of outsiders Jesus attracted are not attracted to contemporary churches..." I would agree with this, because the church is either 1- ill-equipped to know what to say or how to help these people OR 2- they flat-out don't want to. The churches I've been to don't even like messy, hurting, questioning, searching CHRISTIANS (I know, because I was told to leave simply because my hurt was too much for them to handle, thus exposing their inadequacy as leaders) -- they'd definitely avoid messy, hurting, questioning, searching non-Christians!!

[@jammystarfish]

Jon you are the oldest child but when it comes to humor GORDY SANCHEZ, TGC EDITOR AT LARGE remains undefeated 🤣

[@trailtrs1]

He’s saying this about the Jewish believers (most of the church was Jewish at the time) of whom Peter told Paul that they all followed the law of Moses diligently. ? He doesn’t much read church history, does he?

[@cranmer1959]

24:04 Tertium quid is a 3rd way.

[@cranmer1959]

17:26 Yes. Charismatics this same attack.

[@sierragrey7910]

We can use what Keller has written and said since 2006 to better understand what he was writing in 2006, much in the same way that the NT reveals what is concealed in the OT. Knowing his affection for Marxism, now, we can understand his attraction to the word “bourgeois” in 2006, and can better understand his view of society. The end point of much of his teaching is a social gospel.

[@lchampag]

I started to listen to this until I realized this is a Tim Keller hit piece. Keller is a born again Christian and anyone who attacks a Christian so strongly, it says more about their faith or lack thereof.

[@heathermarie3820]

What's your rebuttal to his concerns? How is he wrong?

[@heathermarie3820]

Brother, it could say more about you if you regard him so highly that you won't finish a man's critique to see if he be right ...about Christ. It's not about what guy you like, but which leader/teacher is correct about God. That's it.

[@jerryhenson4395]

Keller's not entirely wrong but he does not seem to notice that Jesus attracted the outcasts by preaching a message of repentance (Luke 5:27-32). Keller seems intent on cutting out elements of the gospel that might offend the people he wants to attract. Also, Keller has his own outcasts that he refuses to touch.

[@NedFerguson]

Keller mentioned a number of things that changed or ceased while Judaism transitioned to its fulfillment in Christ. It was revolutionary, but with a specific end. Keller is trying to use this to say that there is no end. Christianity is to be forever in flux, forever progressing, forever revolutionary. What other familiar philosophy sounds like this, hmmm?

[@betty8173]

Random thought, at 4 minutes in, (sorry to be impatient) as I listened, now and yesterday, as I read his quote, part of it, and it makes me frustrated...the church fellowship is for the edification of the body, the feeding of the sheep, the reading of the Word...encouraging the lost should be done as you go, as you meet them, as you work, shop, play...and asking the Holy Spirit to convict sinners that they need a Saviour...yes, always speak the Gospel at church, but I believe there is no longer too much effort at feeding meat, as we are so concerned with membership...sigh, thank you... the statement is false...Jesus only offended the ones pretending to be so religious, while taking privileges, best seats, etc, and Jesus attracted the ones that the Father was drawing, through His Spirit, just as today! God bless you for your work, your platform, I will try to listen without more comment : ) it would be good for me.... P.S. he needs to read The Birth Order Book by Kevin Leeman, he makes gross generalizations, that are only true 1/2 the time!

[@NicholasproclaimerofMessiah]

What is a "white" Evangelical? It's past time we stop describing people based on skin-tone; it's an absurd categorization with no relevance. Any significant statistic is going to be based on a relevant category rather than an irrelevant. Whatever problems exist, they all transcend skin-tone, making skin tone 100% irrelevant. It may seem we should correct and compensate for what race-baiters are doing, but we should correct and compensate by refusing to apply skin-tone categories at all; otherwise, we are also race-baiting, even if we intend to be opposing it. The only strength race-baiters have is the strength we give them, so let's just laugh them off the stage for even bothering to mention skin-tone; the mainstream culture is ready for race to be laughed out of the room; this is our chance to leave racism in the past and acknowledge that there is only one race of humans. If they want to have a "white Evangelicals" category, then I will simply laugh at their absurdity, and I laugh at Pew Research for applying such a category; they made a mockery of themselves with this one. I know John's intentions are good, but, in war, we need to apply strict standards, or else the enemy will take full advantage.

[@cranmer1959]

32:19 If you're not offending the hypocrites like Keller!

[@trailtrs1]

Jesus didn’t say offend each other but to reach the lost. I’m going to guess Keller doesn’t go out the door of his church to the streets to reach the lost. He plies his trade inside of church doors and in religious conference centers. His mindset isn’t relevant on the streets where the lost are. The reason Jesus was attractive to the lost was because he took his message outside of the synagogue where the people are. The message is not to get the people to go to church but to take the church out into the world. Keller is greatly received among those elements of “liberal” Christianity that feels the government should be used to do “social Justice.”

[@brandonhartgraves5095]

“To what can I compare this generation? They are like children sitting in the marketplaces and calling out to others: “’We played the pipe for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.’ For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, ‘He has a demon.’ The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and sinners.’ But wisdom is proved right by her deeds.” Matthew 11:16-19. "Stop judging by mere appearances, but instead judge correctly.” John 7:24 Big Eva types like to point out that Nazi-supporting Christians of Hitler's day were conservative, anti-communist, nationalistic, and were reacting against the rapid secularization and growing sexual immorality of German culture, as if to discredit the conservative church of today that is rightly responding to many of the same evils. Somehow having concerns about the rapid breakdown of sexual values and Christian morality, the spread of Marxist thought and the judgement that it is bringing to "our people according to the flesh", puts us in the same category as the Nazis and discredits us as believers. If you're judging on appearances only, choosing to see all of these same issues as threats can look kinda suspicious, and having a desire for the righteousness and the blessing of the nation God has placed you in can look an awful lot like idolizing your national identity, but wisdom really is shown by her fruits. Wisdom is acting in accordance with our knowledge of the Person of God as He has revealed Himself (Proverbs 9:10) Does God's word lead us to be concerned about these things, and is our response in line with it? You see, unlike the faithful brothers in the conservative Christian circles I run with, Nazi-supporting 'Christians' knew that God's word did not support the villainization of the Jews, but were so wrapped up in the traditions of man that they actually went so far as to detach themselves from the Old Testament and from many of the Jewish influences of the faith in order to cement their Nazi identity. They were not 'Bible-believing conservatives' they were Bible twisting Pharisees. That's the key. All of the conservative voices I listen to have one thing in common, they treat God's word as the ultimate authority and they aim to call all who would name Christ as Lord to submit to it. Overwhelmingly Christians on the Left are ashamed of many parts of the Bible, some I have known to even admit never reading the Old Testament because "That's not Jesus" but "The Word became Flesh" (John 1:14). Looking on the surface means accusing all brothers who stay at home and choose to be faithful to their father's house, of being Pharisees who do not care for the younger brother. Going deeper means differentiating them from the humble, faithful brothers who work diligently for their Father and share His heart, and giving them their due praise, even when the rest of the church sees them as Nazis

[@Deacondan240]

The goal of the Tim Keller, post-modernist, social justice type is to encourage "flourishing" for the unbelieving/community which wins the praise of Man and is now the NEW GOSPEL. Not a gospel of repentance of sin and filling of the Spirit in power.

[@neosporran]

"Tertium quid" means "third thing."

[@kingjames3197]

You could take this much further. You should read the book. There is so much trash in that book. One thing you didn't mention is that Keller changes the NIV scripture at the beginning of the book from "older" brother to "elder" brother. Two chapters are devoted to "redefining" biblical terms:sin and hope. There is so much posturing against established church, calling them over and over again the "elder" brother. I hated this book!

[@charliethechainsaw]

People liked Jesus when he gave them free healing, food, and they thought he would rule the world. When he told them the cost to follow him they turned away and then demanded he be murdered. Nothing has changed in how we can expect the majority to respond with only a few choosing Him.

[@danielwarton5343]

Isn’t Keller completely missing the point of the parable. It’s about repentance, not about people groups

[@michaelbergman6441]

Keller is antinomian in sheep's clothing. We are not saved by law but saved unto the obedience of faith.

[@katherinecornette5315]

I wonder how Sermon on the Mount would be taken today? Jesus took what the Religious leaders taught and turned it on its head. He went to the heart of man. Probably wouldn’t go over well in this social justice church that Keller is a part of. And Pastor JD quotes him all the time. I now flinch when people quote Keller. Let’s quote scripture instead.

[@cavalier973]

“Unbelievers aren’t attracted to our churches.” Maybe it is because they’re unbelievers; they don’t have the Spirit of Almighty God dwelling within them and prompting them to seek fellowship with believers.

[@paigewells3678]

I’m glad I can now see what Tim Keller is about . But at the time I was listening to him I really did think he had the hidden keys to the kingdom.. so clever and attractive . Turns out he probably is a people pleaser and needs Christ. And to repent.

[@cranmer1959]

8:42. Duplicity in his answers.

[@conceptualclarity]

There is no scriptural data that allows us even to speculate what were the respective proportions of religious Jews and irreligious Jews who sought after Jesus in His earthly sojourn. We only know two things: there were thankfully utterly lost and undone "sinners" who sought Him, and the large majority of the religious authorities rejected Him. It is laughable to imagine that ordinary synagogue-observant Jews, the analogues of the present-day "conservative" churchmen Keller clearly despises, were not extremely well-represented in Christ's audiences. And yes, there are many irreligious "younger brother" types who find a place in today's conservative churches where the name of Foucault is never uttered, and we don't know that the proportions are any different than in Christ's day. Tim Keller is blowing smoke here, and he can readily mislead those who have not very carefully studied the Gospels on their own time.

[@MB-in9eu]

He is so wrong on so many things and has a patronizing manner! An enemy of the church! His stereotype of the older brother is created to fit his narrative! Certainly the opposite with every first born or older male I have ever know! Kudos to you and God’s strength for suffering through his false messages for the benefit of your listeners! I’m just too disgusted by them!

[@michaelclark2458]

I hate that argument it’s not a religion, it’s a relationship. There is a big issue today where the progressive Christians set up a straw man (ex. Religion/patriarchy) etc then tear it down and give us a new word we should strive to be like relationship/egalitarianism or complementarianism etc.

[@damarafriederich9190]

Talking to the House of Rabbi Shammai.

[@katiejulien8559]

Is it just me or does it seem that Tim Keller is bordering on (if not full-fledged over the line) Progressive Christianity? So much of that text, and when you were talking about Christians who want to be seen as cool, as no different from anyone else except that we have the comfort of God, reminded me of my time living in Belfast, Northern Ireland. I used to go sometimes to a “church in a pub” that Pete Rollins started and ran and I thought it was awesome how they were trying to reach people right where they are, and I could even drink my Baileys or Guinness during it. But there was a lot of swearing from the “pulpit” and a lot of irreverence toward God that made me uncomfortable and I stopped going. I didn’t realize at the time that Pete was a Progressive and had no idea what I was toying with. But what Tim Keller wrote in that excerpt smacks of the same attitude.

[@EPHESIANS_5..11__Lady]

He was dangerous and my pastor still lionizes him. 🙍

[@timcummiskey1178]

The Bible does not use the word “religion” as a pejorative!