What I Like About Modern Fighting Games

[@shaneee3113]

Love it when modern fighting games tell you when something is a reversal or punish as a pop up on the side of the screen. Helps learn the game better and faster for new and old players.

[@ErrorGaming64]

Melty takes it a step further and lets you know when something has i frames

[@I_recommend_suicide]

Giving that information to players mid match also gives a lot of clarity to situations that would otherwise be opaque without looking at a replay. For example, when I'm playing with someone new at my local and I make them block Garuda, if I grab them and see "punish" on the screen, I immediately know what happened and can be like "hey man you can't press there, that's not one of the choices" and streamline the learning process around what might otherwise be a frustrating interaction.

[@imdabous1970]

I kinda wish I could set it to show up in the middle of the screen or between the characters since I never notice pop-ups on the sides of the screen. This is coming from someone that didn't pay fighting games much mind until strive so...

[@yoannsoh4009]

@@imdabous1970 i see what you mean but i'm not sure it would be better. because in the scramble (especially in strive) characters are so close sometimes (smaller screen) that you wouldnt see it OR they would be over characters which is bad for spectator perspective.

[@noboty4168]

It gets hate, but I very much appreciate the COUNTER noise and the zoom in on counterhits in Strive.

[@MH3Raiser]

I like Rollback. No seriously, that is easily the best thing about new fighting games. Those born already citizens of the great nation of Rollbackia might not know, but games like SF4, UMVC3 and the original Blazblue titles were borderline unplayable online. This essentially meant that as a kid you either had friends to play with or were stuck playing arcade and training mode. As someone who's friends never enjoyed my favourite fighter (BlazBlue) I spent easily 5-6 years just in training mode as a kid, and then 10 or so years desperately searching for events to get same room matches with people. The fact that I can jump online on BBCF TODAY 10 years after it's release and not only have people ALWAYS ready to play, but have every game feel like the guy is sitting next to me... I feel like I've died and gone to heaven. I genuinely feel blessed.

[@Sorioku]

beautiful

[@polar6066]

rest in pisserini

[@MistaOppritunity]

dude, I'm newer to the FGC, but I remember those times. Because the poor online was enough to deter me from playing other people and getting better at whatever game I was playing. Eventually I got into street fighter with a friend who was way better than me and I dipped my feet in, but after I lost touch with him, I fell off because the games I was interested in had poor online at the time. If I didn't hear strive had good netcode before I bought it, I wouldn't have bought it. That's why I play now.

[@noboty4168]

As someone who has spent their whole life living in the middle of nowhere, I very much agree.

[@Tremuoso]

The point about no truly BAD characters anymore is a really important one I think. When I was getting into fighting games, games like 3S and MVC had this alieanating mystique about them, like even if you managed to learn these games you weren't really a serious player unless you learned one of the 'proper characters'. Being able to say pick a character you think its very cool and just go with the flow from there as advice to someone wanting to get into FGs, and it actually being true and applicable in the modern era of games is good.

[@AllTheRooks]

Genuinely quite like that the slowmo counterhits are in both lists. I personally adore them, and they make the game actually playable for me, gives me a reasonable amount of time to hitconfirm something, as well as being able to actually do counterhit-specific combos without just guessing. BUT I can understand people not enjoying them

[@sunwiitch]

frankly as someone who plays es in BBCF with her really wonky 6B anti-air confirms where getting a counter hit could actually *ruin your combo* if you hadn't developed weird tech to account for it, i'm really glad that there's a system now that won't *punish* you with a system that's theoretically supposed to reward you by giving you a few frames to adapt

[@hmad898]

I think the worst counterhit system I've seen is in skullgirls. love the game, but I need at least an announcement for counterhits. its just a tiny heart breaking in half by their head.

[@ricniclas]

I like how modern games have more forgiving input buffers, I hate missing my inputs

[@graveaxel3607]

As many other FGC content creators have said, 'I just want to play the video game', being able to hop on Strive at like 2pm EST and there's usually 1 close to full 32 player lobby is amazing. Rollback and more accessible games are keeping more players, very healthy for the genre. lol now the lobby system on the other hand...

[@AkibanaZero]

This 1000 times. When you tack on cross-play you've got an even bigger pool of players who are online, showing that a game isn't actually completely dead (this was DNF Duel's biggest mistep, IMO). On top of that, people don't feel punished that they picked the wrong platform (Type Lumina on EU PSN is a literal ghost town).

[@keithsimpson2150]

Modern games feel WAY more intentionally designed. So much stuff in old games was "is this on purpose or did it slip through?

[@jasonslade6259]

IMO GGXX was the first FG that was designed by people who played FG's and knew what they were doing. Its not perfect by any means but you can tell character's moves have purpose and the characters are smartly designed around their unique mechanics.

[@lordknightfgc]

Very good point. I think for example, Capcom and NRS have been learning over time, but there are definitely a ton of examples of "why???" in older fgs lol.

[@juniperrodley9843]

A lot of that, I think, is just that the devs have had more time and now have more reference material. It's much easier to not make bottom-tiers when you have hundreds of characters to compare to find out what makes them unviable.

[@SomniaCE]

Honestly, I view that as both a positive and a negative. The shit that slips through the cracks can create tons of fun and unique interactions/styles of gameplay. One of the reason a lot of archetypes and characters tend to feel at least a little more homogeneous is because of how intentionally designed the games are. Again that had upsides for sure, but when I look at all the fucked up stuff that totally wouldn't fly in modern games I'm generally not viewing that as a positive unless the game on the whole is pretty ass.

[@soulfire67]

One of the things I love about newer games is when you do a ch or a punish or reversal, a message will pop up on screen letting you know that happened. Even as someone who plays a lot of fighters, its helpful to see if something was a punish or if my opponent just didn't block. It also helps me learn through playing, what my good reversal options are (I don't wanna just be reading dustloop pages I wanna play the game). The other thing, and its something you mentioned p much, is that characters feel way more designed. It goes back to your point of low tiers are still playable and usable; devs will work to make characters work and give their normals and specials uses. It does lead to some situations where multiple chars have a special that fills the same role, but its better than a special that just feels useless. This idea of intentional design makes the games easier to learn as well.

[@hunterdombrowski4393]

Love the callback to Bill Clinton reading that Guilty Gear ad in the 90's. I still die everytime I hear him say "Kill y'er friends, guilt free" in his iconic voice.

[@OccuredJakub12]

One thing you forget is that nowadays devs don't leave weak moves alone. Patches will often find what is any character's least used special or normal and will buff them to encourage people to use them. Ky's Dragon Install is a prime example.

[@pian-0g445]

But in most cases, that’s a good thing. Why spent resources creating something for it to not be used due to how ineffective it is. DI still isn’t used that much but at least now, it is a choice that isn’t done just for the lol. Now whether they do a good job with patching them is something else, but I believe in a perfect world, no character would have a useless move (unless done on purpose), and still have a purpose, even if extremely situational.

[@DoctorGalactor]

Now it's actually super dangerous for the opponent. It was already scary with the strong chip damage and combos, but now it activates much faster in neutral and doubles as a pressure reset.

[@Malacai087]

DRAGON INSTALL

[@somedude15231]

LMAO him scrolling over the games to talk about netcode and skipping straight over GBVS is mad funny. Like it's probably not intentional but the timing is hilarious to me

[@leithaziz2716]

Thing that stands out to me with modern fighters compared to old ones is the communication. A lot of people at times felt like they were talking to a wall and not really knowing what's going on behind the scenes of the game they're passionate for, or what the devs' intention is. Stuff like Guilty Gear's developer backyard and all the interviews Capcom has done about SF6 is refreshing. That talk at EVO where Daisuke's team sat down and shared concept art of Xrd and answered some questions was a lot of fun.

[@jscriber100]

Another cool video idea. I love how creative modern games have gotten with universal throws. Alien jumps on your torso to take a chunk of flesh out your shoulder, then sticks his tail in your stomach to send you flying (MKX). Menat jumps onto your shoulders and steps on your head, then flings you with a stomping kick (SFV). Omega Phyrra jumps onto your shoulders panties first to distract you, then twists her hips snapping your neck (SC5). Faust transports you (Strive). Let me stop before people get bored because I could go on forever.

[@leithaziz2716]

The fact that the camera also zooms in on the interaction dynamically is what I really like. Think how the camera is faced when Millia does hoe throw and spins around you. Cool shot. Helps the camera not stay static on one angle for too long, which is a personal gripe I've had with 2D sprite games specifically.

[@nemoisnobody]

3:04 I forgot to thank Bill Clinton. I wouldn't have even known that Guilty Gear even existed if it wasn't for his recommendation! Game ruled.

[@polarnyne]

Two things I really love about modern FGs are longer hit-stops and longer input-buffers. These two combine helps a lot with your combos and hit-confirms and gives a lot of consistency on basic combos. A counter-example would be C-Kohaku in Melty Blood. The most basic combo will destroy your fingers.

[@endresee]

Modern fighting games are great! I played a lot of fighting games as a kid but always bounced off them because the games did not teach you how to play (well), there was no one to play with, and playing against the computer was either too easy or felt hard in a cheap way. Now lots of games have full move lists and frame data, and there are tons of sources on the internet and KZbin that teach you how to play, and even some quality in-game tutorials. And then you can actually play against people around your skill level online. It actually gives you a reason to want to learn the games. So I got back into fighting games as an adult and it’s been a great time!

[@haughtygarbage5848]

The positive voice we all need these days

[@Franko_L_L]

Imput buffer my beloved

[@lech8873]

You aint slick with that doa volleyball lol

[@thisisntevenmyfinalform1773]

I remember watching Axeice do insane stuff at the house of chaos with Goku Black and 17 despite them both being called trash.

[@ZzigZaG00NIN]

Beerus the god of destruction starting off as low tier and 16 top tier is pretty funny to think about. I remember Knowkami talking about how one of the worse parts of 16 being top tier was that it didn't make any sense 😂

[@zenassenzee6126]

I never see your videos anymore. I had to look this up manually. I thought you stopped posting.

[@melleen629]

14:56 why do both Android 21s have level 3s that take 8 years

[@hmad898]

theres longer ones

[@elko4889]

Old or modern fighting game you can always mash button or wake up DP and i know this is dumb but it's so fun

[@deckbuildercassen]

What I personally like about modern fighting games: My Lord continues to thrive in them against all the odds, against all the negative-neutral, and against all forms of robbery. Like his hairline, his success shall continue to flourish in this new era of Fighting games. Let us pray.

[@asdasddas100]

I LOOOVE neutral. I hate games where it's a single player game for 10 seconds. I will play a game with 1 attack button for hours on end if it has good neutral (One strike). Interaction between players will always be my favorite aspect

[@AshepEli-YT]

Average footsies enjoyer

[@psychodad4434]

Good shit as usual LK. Been jamming some Teat alongside Axl as you suggested. So gonna take this question to the next level. All I play is Strive. I’m pumped for SF6. Do you think it’s worth branching out into SFV to “prep” for 6, or just keep jamming Strive since I’m not very good but enjoy it none the less? Thanks for all the great content

[@keithsimpson2150]

Vampire Savior is peak design. Art, direction, pace, fun. Broken but in a fun way. A few S tiers who are totally different.

[@javianbrown8627]

One of my friends wouldn't try GG strive because of the slowdowns/ bullet time in the game and another tried it but hates games that don't have a dedicated block button

[@jonnysac77]

Some people just aren't willing to get out of there comfort zone when it comes to things like that, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't more hesitant to play certain games because they have a block button

[@javianbrown8627]

@@jonnysac77 I get it, it's what he's used to from games like MK11 and even the Ninja storm series. It also means you don't have to worry about cross-ups or your inputs getting interrupted by the opponents sudden change in sides. It creates another guessing game or just forces you to react to things outside of just blocking high or low on defense which is actually what I like about it. Defence is just as engaging as offence

[@mrpinguimninja]

10:46 I actually don't mind having bad characters in a game 'cause on the other hand, you have less homogenized archetypes. I don't know if it's possible to make very distinct characters and at the same time having them all be mostly balanced. Also, the whole argument here seems to be about the fidelity of a character's representation in the game compared to his original depiction which IMO 1) it's not a rule that is (or should be) abided by the developers 2) make the game less interesting than if characters who weren't strong in the original media are suddenly very strong. I remember people memeing on kazunoko at summit of power for his yamcha and all of a sudden he was making 1v3 character comebacks with it. That made BDFZ WAY MORE INTERESTING than all the strong gokus/vegetas/fusions everybody was playing. It was way cooler to see borderline NPCS like Yamcha and Tien becoming relevant characters in the game than having the game balance follow the original universe canon

[@sinshenlong]

Rollback , in game notifications, new visual aesthetics, international and pc release. Twitch channels especially from players i admired for decades. And dustloop style info sites and discord servers

[@jesselee9223]

Persona 5 is top. Best vibes. Good attitude man

[@crimsonhead100]

Props to lord knight for not purchasing labcoat 21 😂

[@ChizeSOI]

Using Fighterz as an example of "more neutral based" is... an interesting choice.

[@BingusLover-yx7vf]

Fighterz is usually neutral based and the blocks things are absolutely hellish making those really long true blocks things isn't effective the game encourages you to drop blocks things for staggers which are more effective but create a risk on both sides making it awful at times but bearable

[@hmad898]

it actually is, probably doesnt always look like it though.

[@Sporkyz74]

Can't wait to read all the boomer ass takes about how none of these things matter because new fighting games are inherently bad and boring lmfao.

[@swarm232]

bro you literally called out the 2nd comment below you lmao

[@ggplayer1170]

I like that modern fighting games such as DNF Duel and Melty Blood Type Lumina have proven that player count matters more than rollback when it comes to matchmaking.

[@DonQuixe]

Didnt know that you knew Jamaican bad words 😂😂.. suprised the hell outta me lmao

[@hockey1973]

I'm super hyped that games now have rollback but I still sorta lol when I hear "modern fighting games have rollback" because I read it as 'modern' fighting games finally started using 20 year old technology to enable people to simply play online :D

[@2emo2function]

P sure doujin means self published not fan made

[@galiks3908]

Roy still our boy

[@jonnysac77]

Fighting games being so reliant on brand recognition does not make me feel good tbh, I like FGs based on my favourite anime as much as the next guy but it would be nice to see some new IPs succeed

[@cameronlile2931]

This is a great video! But want to point out that as a melee player that was on you. Bowser is generally considered the worst character in the game. Roy is also trash but not Bowser level trash.

[@lordknightfgc]

I dunno about modern tier lists, but that story was from when I was competing in ssbm. I switched to Marth a month after that lol. I basically thought he was bottom 5, dunno what the modern opinion is though.

[@neonknight5857]

I like having frame data in the game. Didn't like having to pay for it though.....fuckin tekken. The list of shit I don't like is longer. I'll wait for "What I Don't Like About Modern Fighting Games" for that though.

[@skiff3714]

I only know arcana hearts from will it kill, I fucking love will it kill, it fuels my gambling addiction while I’m away from the gacha hellhole

[@esnevip]

See DBFZ Videl, hit like, simple.

[@hijster479]

I disagree with the idea that modern fighting games are more neutral focused, it's more like the core gameplay is balanced better so everyone can compete. Neutral is supposed to be the state where neither player is at advantage, but it sure doesn't feel like that when some characters are almost impossible to get in or keep out. But as oxymoronic as it sounds I'd argue that having potentially rewarding interactions at most ranges doesn't make modern games neutral focused. How can it when you usually only need to win one interaction to end it for several seconds? Something like DBFZ just feels very swingy to me, although to be fair this is also a problem in some older anime games. It's somewhat common to score the first hit and snowball the rest of the game off of it. If anything, most modern games feel offense focused to me. To me, games like Samsho 2019 or Virtua Fighter 5 are more neutral focused. Most moves are minus on block (and some even on hit) and there aren't any crazy cancels, so combo/pressure opportunities are rarer and more committal. You usually have to take big risks or win multiple small interactions to earn big damage and strong pressure. And because offense is inherently risky, returning to neutral after cashing out is a much more viable strategy. The opponent won't be able to make up the life lead without taking a big risk or winning multiple interactions themselves. So It feels even better when you double down and make an offensive read that pays off. A lot of modern games don't have this nuance, instead they make offense low risk and easily accessible, and use negative feedback loops to force you to give the other player a turn.

[@Psx806]

That’s a ignorant opinion old games were actually easier sf2turdbo for instance is one example easiest fighting game ever

[@lordknightfgc]

Ngl my reply to this is too long to write out lmao. I understand how you feel, but the short hand is def that they try to minimize some classic strategies + there are forced neutral resets/it's harder to get big frame advantage compared to the past.

[@ItzTally]

early gang

[@KarmaSpaz12]

All these years later and still playing the Japanese though? LK respecting health and safety standards and not double dipping. As for fighting game franchises, I'd like a Deadman Wonderland fighting game.

[@ankoasmr2510]

LK is such a sweaty Baiken player.

[@Sorioku]

I like New fighting games visuals and intuitiveness to get into it, and the rollback. But it basically stops there. I just wish the games were not so streamlined where I feel like one character is just another version of another character but better or worse at it. Like older Tekkens. Every character felt so unique. Tekken still does this best but Strive man....

[@cain3958]

My favorite part about modern fighting games are the men taking the role of women to make up for the lack of feminine representation in the community! they prove that you don't have to be a man to on equal terms!

[@dojimakiryu1658]

Modern fighting games are boring

[@victornguyen1175]

While it's true for some people, most people just grew up and started to think more critically and harshly. Many grew to realize it's just a game so they focus on what they don't like about it, thinking it'll make things better, just like a lot of other things in our lives. We as children used to be less picky about the games they played because we were all happy we could even play games to begin with. Nobody growing up back in the day who had a passion for games (note that competitive gaming didn't exist for the most part) cared if something was balanced or toxic as long as cool shit was happening. If something really was unfair, we agreed to ban it. Games were for fun, and if they weren't fun we didn't play them. The bad games died out because of it and the good ones came through. We didn't have crowds of people complaining every patch about how their lives have to be made easier for them to have fun, and you don't see people swarming to go back to the "better" games.

[@ahmedibrahim4997]

I find 09ers and zoomers talking about "modern fighting games" to be very corny and disingenuous

[@Psx806]

@@victornguyen1175 nah that ain’t true about growing up people think that constantly but then they play a game they really like new or old then they realize that all the new stuff just sucks. Could be things going on in your life too that may affect your mood.

[@lordknightfgc]

Wait for the vid on what I don't like about modern fgs, you're too early.

[@jackstack2136]

It's too bad most of your points are mitigated by the fact that the executions and mechanics (in all fighting games) have been simplified over the last decade to ease casual players into the fighting game community which itself is inherently toxic due to this new massive divide in legacy skill vs casual, accessibility-oriented design. Fighting games feel 'easier' to play than they used to because they objectively are, and they're intentionally designed this way to boost the likelihood of e-sports tournament 'hype moments' generated from mid-round comebacks, which means the primary focus of fighting game design no longer revolves around the sport itself, but the spectatorship.

[@hmad898]

Fighting games are still fun, and the better player will still win. I dont really care if a new player can do a simple combo or an auto combo on me without practicing inputs for hours a day because they made inputs easier.

[@ananmaysahu4563]

You will still win 101 rounds out of a hundred against a new player in any modern fighting game. I don't really give a shit if newbies can actually do basic combos now instead of struggling to ever hit a BnB, all the stuff I play fighting games for is still there like the advanced mechanics, high level combos and incredible depth and layers of strategy and mindgames.