What if AI debated ILLEGAL Immigration & Deportation?

[@Anke06]

"Saying we must accept unathorized entry just to allow economic migration makes as much sense as saying we must accept smuggling just to allow trade" Truer words have never been spoken

[@terryshaw3377]

If we had a streamlined and actually usuable and working immigration system that enabled people to become citizens alongside public housing we probably wouldn’t even be talking about this problem at all lmao and we also probably wouldn’t be spending as much money as we do on it. Congrats on your echo chamber bro. Hopefully deporting 15 million people doesn’t turn into a trail of tears scenario.

[@CD-vb9fi]

@@terryshaw3377 no public housing. Everything the government touches becomes wastefully expensive. Your solution is what we are doing right now. Taxing Americans to give people breaking the law money, food, clothing, and housing. You are just stealing for political gain at that point.

[@jayhush2898]

@@terryshaw3377 Did you not listen to the entire video? Canada can't even afford to build 5 millions homes, Yet you want us to build 15 million homes for Aliens, while also dealing with homelessness already? That was the entire point of the AI argument, that it isn't just black and white. Maybe you both are in an echo chamber. Many jobless and homeless before we let in 15 million more illegal Aliens. Mass deportation doesn't look like the trail of tears. You most likely will be sent out if caught committing a crime and are found to be in America Illegally. And before you side with the Citizenship bot on this matter, mass deportation wasn't even a thing under Joe Biden and yet we have crimes not being reported on such as hit and runs, and rapes of teen girls. Done by Venezuelan gang members, let out of their prisons and told to come to America and not come back. Even if there was a legal path, they came thru trafficking areas and were bused deep into the USA. Wonder why many are flocking to New York rn looking to stay in the Sanctuary city. But like you mentioned before, Congrats on your echo chamber I guess?

[@Crescendø2321]

@@terryshaw3377I agree that the current immigration system is not good, and fixing it is a much better solution than repeating mass deportations. However, they also aren’t mutually exclusive. We should deport people, fix the immigration system, and allow them back in legally, if they can make it. Laws need to be upheld

[@PeePeePooPoo07]

Smuggling often includes dangerous substances and weapons, actually a majority of it is dangerous. On the other hand a vast majority of undocumented people come here for sanctuary and to work. Horrible comparison lmao

[@briankelly1240]

This one always confused me. 'Illegal' is in its name, so we need to either enforce the law or change the law so it is not illegal.

[@DAWN001]

Exactly. The current message is basically you can get away with breaking the law if a large number of people are also breaking the same law. It’s going to lead to a lawless society (already showing symptoms of that)

[@edgarortega7609]

@@DAWN001 immigrants are less likely to break the law than citizens based on statistics. Also violent and property crime rates have been trending downward since the 1990s. Illegal immigrants are a result of a lack of accessible pathways to citizenship

[@ablazescarf3328]

But what if those illegals are already blocks in our tower? I mean, this approach to deport all illegals will be all negatives yknow? Since families will be shattered, crime will surely increase. Economically we WILL suffer from this result, and that’s not even including the cost of doing such a task. There’s more nuance.

[@syfiliskerino1998]

That seems to be the argument. The citizenship position advocates for abolishing or largely lessening the illegalization of crossings, thereby paving way for the destruction of basic societal structures and subsequent chaos on the basis of misguided emotional appeal over a complex matter. By squashing the punishment for breaking the fundamental structures of society, it paves direct way for overdrive that will eventually do more than simply suppress the lives of legal citizens, but destroy large swathes of society. We have seen this in Rome where immigration destroyed the core of society so much that legions and sectors stopped caring about the laws and structures so much and ceased fighting, leading to the destruction of Rome by Goths and others when law fell.

[@butteredbisquet1544]

There are a lot of immigrants that come as refugees, but colloquy call them illegal

[@alibiz6731]

When even AI has trouble defending illegal immigration without stretching logic, you know this should really not be a debate at all.

[@terryshaw3377]

The AI video debating Gods existence had the AI that believed in Gods existence winning. So no debate?

[@Ozmanshahbaz]

They both bring up valid points but given the current reality , western europe is facing I'm on the side of Pro deportation even though I don't live in europe

[@terryshaw3377]

@ You mean the continent that is the size of our country. Dawg some of our states have bigger economies than most if not off of those countries. We can better handle immigration as well as illegal immigration we just don’t want to lmao.

[@taetrrtot6205]

@@terryshaw3377 A nation should prioritize its own citizens before all else which means not offering its resources and opportunities to those of other nations. Having requirements to become a citizen is different from considering anyone in the nation a citizen. The standard of living for your own matters more than that of others and we can't maintain or improve that standard when demand increases faster than supply

[@mikeperez8]

@@terryshaw3377by this logic, rich people should allow the poor to live in their house. They can handle it…..

[@KevinSmith-qi5yn]

If the economic migrants are so useful to our country, why aren't they useful to their own country? Wouldn't their absence mean their country is worse off?

[@wissuya4138]

You are experiencing a migrant from all over the world in one country. It's the small fraction of migrant that left that one country that's why each individual country would not feel the effect.

[@next_door_rigil3270]

A growing economy needs employees to make the conomy grow. A stagnant or receding economy struggles to feed the population and could use without the ones struggling the most. With less employees and population, it means lower inflation, higher salaries. And could help recover economies.

[@MrEssedis]

​​@@wissuya4138 guy you are severely I'll informed. Mass migration causes severe brain drain on the home country, especially smaller ones. It's one of the many reasons these countries stay under developed. My country has an unnatural shortage of doctors for this reason. Countries like the US intentionally did this in order to get the brightest minds, it's what made them number 1.

[@jennymora808]

@@MrEssedis And many of murders too 😢

[@JayseabeeSTL]

Because America has strong institutions in place that make our economy work better than most others in the world. People trust businesses because they trust the government to largely hold them accountable. People go to school and invest time and money in highly specialized degrees because they trust that our advanced economy will have jobs available for them when they graduate because we generally prioritize innovation and competition. People start businesses because we’re largely pro-entrepreneur. Yes, we have our issues with some corruption for sure, but compared to lots of other countries, our corruption might as well be non-existent. If people can trust the institutions then they’re more willing to take reasonable risks and try to create value for the economy via a specialized job, starting a business, etc. One of the biggest issues with recent developments in America has been actions taken by politicians and institutions themselves which have eroded some level of trust in the institutions. As trust in institutions drops, corruption increases and democracy falls into decline and disrepair. In relation to illegal immigration, our immigration system is broken and far outdated. We need to update it to make it easier for people to legally migrate to the U.S. since we are facing labor shortages and soon to be facing some demographic cliffs which will threaten social safety net programs like social security, Medicare, etc. Deporting illegals who have committed violent crimes is fine, but deporting illegals who have built productive lives in America for years and years makes no sense. It would cost an insane amount of money, hurt our economy, cause massive social outrage, and have many other negative externalities. We’re much better off making it easier for them to become legally documented and give them a clear pathway to citizenship.

[@capjacm717]

"no emotions" yet red AI is making extremely emotionally driven arguments

[@txstateninja]

Not emotional, but recognizing the catastrophic effects to the individuals and their families. Saying a systematic disruption to the family and communal fear impacting their interactions with society is a rational statement, despite the underlying emotional charge of the scenario.

[@MrChoco409]

@@txstateninja those points are just unrealistic, but above all, theyre not concerned with the actual native citizens. You are clearly more concerned with "muh poor immigrants" because you have critical opinions on race and class. Not our problem, send em back.

[@obiomachukwuocha4918]

​@@MrChoco409it's not really unrealistic. While the pro-deportation Ai had a stronger overall argument, anti-deportation said long time illegal immigrants are integrated into society that they and their children cannot "ethically" be removed without condemnation.

[@MrChoco409]

@ thats just not true. Id also counter that they arent american in any real sense. A mouse born in a stable isnt a horse. They are almost always raised in a foreign household and hold somewhat of an allegiance to their parent’s country

[@cloudoftime]

They aren't emotionally driven, they are ethically driven. There is a distinction. That said, blue AI was using far more rhetoric like, "you're dodging" or "you're avoiding."

[@The77Voice]

As soon as the pro illegal immigrant ai used hypothetical situations of unlivable conditions from climate change I knew it was over.

[@supremexrebel290]

Emotion vs Raw Facts, it wasn't even a contest tbh, in life the best choice is often times the most sensible one

[@terryshaw3377]

@@supremexrebel290 You thing climate change is “Emotions” You are unhelpable and yet you need it more than any illegal immigrant ever will

[@terryshaw3377]

@@The77Voice Yea that makes sense because you guys don’t believe in climate change 😭😭😭😭

[@The77Voice]

@terryshaw3377 name one place that currently experiences climate change to a level it is inhospitable and creating mass exodus. If you cant do that, then name one illustration in which this same scenario could happen within 20 years. Believe what you want in climate change, but using it in an argument that is based on current immigration politics is ridiculous.

[@CD-vb9fi]

@@terryshaw3377 climate change is a hoax. It's not that climate is not changing or that humans don't have an impact. The problem is that every solution they have provided does NOTHING for climate change but does happen to give them a bunch of power and money to do nothing with. That makes it a hoax. And if we allow the climate hoaxers to win, not only will be not stop any problems associated with climate change.. it WILL make the problem worse. The government and everyone in power will also have a perverse incentive to connect everything to climate change in a desperate grab for power/money. They did it during pandemic... it's already something they are doing now.

[@DB-bq6zc]

Do people not acknowledge the terms illegal immigrants & legal immigrants. You wouldn't want invaders in your household but guests are invited.

[@charlesvion815]

Because it’s about privacy

[@wissuya4138]

America is not a house and nobody own America like like somebody own their house. Stop using this comparison it's idiotic.

[@MrDj232]

A lot of the people who agree with the citizenship AI actively try to blur the lines between legal and illegal immigrants. They want to treat it as a race issue so anyone who disagrees with them can be dismissed as a racist.

[@yamalortiz5152]

​The U.S. owns the U.S what are you on about. Every recognized country has sovereignty over its own state that's part of the requirement. In a country like the U.S. were people are supposed to own the government that translates to them having authority of its sovereignty.

[@leandro6234]

A country is not the same as household. The country is a public thing, a household is a private one. There's no such thing as "invaders" and i am ok with them being allowed to work and become citizens here.

[@low-keyvibin3189]

That one guy. “They can be deported together” 🗣️🔥🗣️🔥

[@Anarcho-harambeism]

I've wanted him in charge for years lol, I saw he was gonna be in charge and went, FINALLY

[@JohnSmith-bs9ym]

It's how it's supposed to be.

[@wakeup2realityostriches]

True.

[@ablazescarf3328]

@@Anarcho-harambeismThe guy who couldn’t understand the difference between asylum seekers and illegal immigrants?

[@tnshanobighost6749]

When people break the law here and go to jail it affects the family. The sins of the father unfortunately do have consequences for the family.

[@beautifully_scarred_lea]

I'm in Kuwait now as an American. Aint no way they will have their borders flooded. Only in the West is this idiocracy allowed to happen

[@hanamlchl]

The pro-migrant argument is made by people who openly deny resource scarcity and ignore the impact on the host nation and its citizenry.

[@missdee212]

Who the f*k wants to go to Kuwait? I'll answer that, No ONE

[@midnull6009]

no where else in the world...yeah... American's are becoming stupider by the generation...

[@CyberMachine]

Exactly!! My immigration views changed after moving to China and Thailand. They were STRICT. America is way too light on them.

[@fh2135]

It’s almost like having more resources gives us more freedom to be humane when compared to countries with less resources. There’s people who are willing to stomach barbarity when no other option exists, but then there’s people that long for barbarity regardless of circumstances.

[@arielfuentes5211]

The US DO have a legal pathway for immigration, is a lengthy (it often last for years) and costly process, that hundreds of thousands of people undertake to be a us citizen or just to have the right to legally be / stay in the US. Giving citizenship or any benefits to illegal immigrants not only makes these processes useless, but spits on the faces of those who actually followed the rules.

[@inter5123]

Yes just step right up to the 27 year waitlist some immigrants have from these countries🤡

[@JourG215]

@@arielfuentes5211 Yes and you don't see a problem with this system? Especially when we have an aging population. The average age of the American worker is 39 years old. There is huge demand for cheaper goods and produce in this country. We already have a labor shortage, we cannot get the workers we need legally... that is why illegal immigration exists. Anyone with enough money to come in legally won't fill the lower wage jobs we need to fill. And we need their labor now not in 10 years. Talk to anyone who owns a hospitality business (restaurants, construction, hotels, cleaning, farms)... They can't find workers. Unless you're willing to go pick crop or pay 3x as much for produce...

[@midnull6009]

@@inter5123 it doesn't take that long if you have all your papers (medical and current country of citizenship), if you have somebody who sponsored you in case of liability, and if you have some sort of a degree The ones that take DECADES the the ones who are ghosts. No papers. No backgrounds. No degree's. No medical records. No families to sponsor. The process doesn't take that long if you are a decent human being w/no background issues. If anything, they'll give you a temp visas so that they can process your citizenship papers while you learn the language/culture so that you can pass the citizenship test. :)

[@midnull6009]

@@JourG215 actually...we do have seasonal workers from central and south America that come here for jobs. In farming for instance, there are busses that would pick up those seasonal workers (that have all the required papers from their countries AND us). They get on the bus. Come up here. Stay on farmlands for months. They're fed. Sheltered. And given medical attention if needed. Get paid. Then they leave. Think of it as a seasonal fishing job. Except more ppw cuz it's across different country borders. And ppl who hire illegal immigrants are the ones who are breaking the law first hand. It's illegal to HIRE illegal immigrants...mostly due to safety concerns.

[@stephenkolostyak4087]

@@JourG215 " @arielfuentes5211 Yes and you don't see a problem with this system? Especially when we have an aging population. The average age of the American worker is 39 years old. There is huge demand for cheaper goods and produce in this country. We already have a labor shortage, we cannot get the workers we need legally... that is why illegal immigration exists. " Of fuck right off with that nonsense - there are more than enough people to do all the fucking work, the problem is half of them are self entitled shitlords who are too good to get their hands dirty while trash talking the other half who does all of the real labor.

[@mattheusveloso2]

God forbid I'd ever have to debate this woman. She always kills it.

[@christopherjones4910]

Because she always argues the more logical side

[@KNC2879]

@@christopherjones4910 All the AIs are also scripted by the content creator they're both just "arguing" his points of views. These debates are for the most part one sided.

[@christopherjones4910]

Don’t stress. I assumed as much. But thanks anyways.

[@mrsauce9307]

@@KNC2879but you can actually make ai do this.. i literally made that shit do my homework for me before so I believe it😭

[@mrsauce9307]

@@christopherjones4910^

[@benjaminreyes3624]

This is becoming one of my most favorite channel on KZbin

[@Antvio_]

Agreed. I love seeing new and interesting quality content being made. This channel is very underrated. I'm Surprised it hasn't blown up like crazy yet lol.

[@Sansaguadikie]

I like it when they say stuffs that agrreess wit me way of think

[@Antvio_]

@@Sansaguadikie Well I can tell you one side for sure doesn't.

[@kingsavage2272]

The citizen argument falls apart in this way. Someone breaks into your home. They scrub floors, wash dishes, vaccum, and mow the lawn. That benefit is only made possible through the already unappreciated and illegal act of forced entry. I would come home very unhappy to see an unwelcome guest.

[@TotalWater-d2o]

Citizenship AI doesnt care, it would use a presumed global warming dooms-day scenario .etc to justify the person illegally entering your home.

[@snake922]

Hey I’m not complaining

[@chrismacqueen4891]

Doesn't fall apart at all if you look at Dem policies. Look at all the squatters who are given rights over the owners just because they broke in, set up a few bills, and stayed there for 7 days.... well at least as long as they aren't in a rich liberal neighborhood like Martha's Vineyard or DC....

[@divyanshsingh9369]

​@@snake922yeah. Why would I complain if someone's doing stuff I don't want to?

[@nihel3144]

And then someone from your own village comes in and does the same (internal migration) now, tell me, what is the difference asides from their skin color?

[@JoeBigBoi]

deportation ai for the win, the only side that provided concrete examples not just theoreticals. as the old adage goes, prevention is always better than cure.

[@buildz740]

“Should we punish criminals?” Is basically the question here. Ridiculous that this is even a debate in modern America

[@Methodius-and-Cyril]

I always enjoy these debates. Especially since this one is a culturally relevant for this year. Still waiting for a group of Jewish A.I and a group of Christian A.I. debating if Jesus Christ is the Messiah or not.

[@luckynumberzeroes]

What about a classical and topical I/P conflict ? I mean does this channel want to boom or not ?

[@Methodius-and-Cyril]

@ already did. Now we need to have Jewish A.I. and Christian A.I. to debated if Jesus Christ is the Messiah or not.

[@evilemperorzurg9615]

The debate between the Christian, Buddhist, and Muslim AI was an absolute slaughter. Christianity and Buddhism agreed on 90% of things if by different logic and methods whereas the Muslim AI kept on justifying war, slavery, rape, and a whole slew of other atrocities.

[@Sorain1]

@@evilemperorzurg9615 Well a LLM system can only work with existing arguments, based on the data that exists, that's what you'd get in terms of argument from each group, because that's what was fed in. If a side wants to be 'better represented' they need to up the level of the typical arguments they make where the LLM get's it's data from.

[@trina2100]

Jews will win

[@christophermobious7676]

The red AI didn't do pro-illegal immigration any favors. The blue AI totally won and gave the more solid logical arguments.

[@charlesvion815]

It’s just deeply immoral.

[@jakeplayzyt5220]

how?

[@cloudoftime]

_Person in comments says they feel a certain way while providing absolutely nothing to substantiate their claims_ Good job. The AI is smarter than you.

[@leandro6234]

Illegal immigration is just a net good, there are no good arguments against it.

[@gregegg-ef1kl]

another dunce

[@hedonistic_ambition9060]

This was a one-sided beatdown imo. But then again I’m biased 🤷‍♂️ you can’t have a country without borders or enforcement

[@juanchisilverio3610]

The thing is, "do you need a country?", that´s another debate in and of it itself

[@nuggies3]

@@juanchisilverio3610ive always wondered this. what would happen if we went tried something where there were no government, bo currency, and no regulations? what if we just let people be. forge and gather again. an open border world might seems very interesting.

[@lastomen9]

​@@nuggies3basically like the beginning of civilization, like minded people will group together, trade was done between goods, there were no regulations

[@nuggies3]

@ yes. maybe not even groups. maybe everyone tends to their own family. make a safe household and defend it from people who try to take your peace. i think this would be a much simpler way to live than what we have right now

[@lastomen9]

@@nuggies3 so basically people that live off the grid in the woods? There is a reason most people live in the cities

[@youcanthandlemyname7393]

its insane how quickly the pro illegal ai fell to conflating refugees with illegal immigrants. if you cant win an argument without resorting to these kind of tactics then maybe you are on the wrong side of the argument.

[@charlesvion815]

The difference is just how we classify them. Illegal immigrants are escaping hardship

[@BickleyLTO]

Give him a break.. he had to argue for illegal immigration lmao, I feel sorry for his task tbh

[@israelsolano5347]

It’s an Ai model it didn’t have a choice in the matter, I agree tho that it quickly would switch the two and thus change the essence of the conversation, but I don’t expect them to be able to correct themselves or correct each other, which would be my critique of the Deportation Ai, she was getting hit with some real unavoidable questions that she would just keep answering with “so you’re saying illegal immigration should be allowed” and I saw many times where the Citizenship Ai directly answer questions with solutions which the Lady couldn’t do

[@youcanthandlemyname7393]

@@israelsolano5347 i know its an ai model. its just funny how quickly an ai model ran out of good logical arguments to make for this position and had to fall back on conflating refugees with illegal aliens just like humans do in these debates.

[@leandro6234]

Many illegal immigrants are refugees / asylum seekers. How it is a tactic? It is a fact.

[@rustyrodgers7566]

Notice how these AI’s just reflect the biases of their creators. It’s no different than a human debate.

[@slivasiul]

💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯💯

[@rarespopovici4402]

Because they re not truly AI

[@LMO1012]

The argument was so absent of a foreign disenfranchisement and military occupancy on a migrating country.

[@apexcrypto01]

​@LMO1012 okay and? This world is so soft now. In the past you were lucky if you didn't get exterminated when you lost/were conquered and now you chuck sh*ts think "wahhh wahhhh you beat us now we get to live with you" Lol gtfoooo

[@bankaihampter2802]

​@@rarespopovici4402they are large language models that generate new text based on the probability of the most expected followup thanks to advanced algorithms and big data they are trained on. They are not very different from your keyboard auto correction that can predict the next word You're about to say. So at the end, there is no logic in what they say, no subject was truly analized, but they reflect quite well people believes cause that was the data they were trained on

[@constructadditionalpylons2715]

The one arguing for deportation won tbh

[@aesop1451]

1) Jon Oleksiuk always gives the female AI the argument that he agrees with, although statistically the woman would be supporting illegal immigration. 2) No high-ranking politician supports illegal immigration. Being against illegal immigration is so 2008. The real debate is *mass* *legal* immigration. This creates a distinction between the fake right (civic nationalists) and the real right (ethnic nationalists). 3) There are other things that matter than GDP. Big business supports mass immigration because it drives down wages. That's good for GDP. The real right cares about heritage and culture. America will become majority minority by 2045.

[@aflack482]

⁠​⁠@@aesop14511) this has no effect whatsoever on anything in these videos 2)this makes no sense illegal immigration wether by mass or not is still ILLEGAL 3)driving down wages may be good for GDP but as literally every single article about this has said, this DOES NOT help the normal working class people and most (if not all) of the GDP gains are only felt by the rich 1%

[@basedchad6035]

@@aflack482 Also it litteraly strips away the rights of white people through ethnic voting. Aka Voting based on ethnicity. And we will face Oppression once we loose our majority. Same is happening in europe, so dont come at me with native american bullsh*t (not talking to you but to stupid readers reading this comment). Also it is not true that non whites face oppression right now. It is likely however that they will inflict harm upon us even then so. Racial Resentment based on old hisotry is what motivates their hatred, not current oppression. Also just simple tribalism. the natural state of the human group.

[@ryanelliott6706]

@@aesop1451”no high ranking official supports illegal immigration.” No. They won’t SAY they support illegal immigration. The policies that they promote are pro-illegal immigration.

[@MakriaMicronation]

​@@aesop1451"though statistically the woman should be supporting illegal immigration" WHAT. HUH!? ain't no way bru.

[@martinpadilla5224]

Citizen ai got some crazy mental gymnastics

[@karndorbad6536]

Just like a real Democrat zero logic

[@Ttttg-c3f]

This really does highlight how the left is not based in reality

[@skystreem4860]

ChatGPT is continuously proving that it is a snowflake chatbot

[@warminsterop7591]

RedChatMAGA GPT said that Trump will demonstrate that he is a stable genius capable of MAGA by deporting millions of illegals from farms and manufacturing plants and immediately replacing them with black workers with $24/ hour pay and full benefits. At the same time, food will become cheaper; you can have 4 lb ribs and 4 lb of chicken wings with four six-packs of beer every week while chanting: There is only one God, and Trump is his prophet.

[@Thatscrazyyourecrazy]

I’ll bite… how come?

[@arturopelayo202]

Or, maybe you're the snowflake and it's easier to say a machine is emotional because it disagrees with you.

[@skystreem4860]

@@Thatscrazyyourecrazy I said something from a meme trans people say “you’re never gonna accept me for who I am. I’m like, bro did you?” I typed it into the conversation and ChatGPT said I was potentially violating its policy and the answer and give me it is not appropriate to attack other others for the choices that they make I wasn’t attacking anybody I was pointing out the irony of the initial statement in a satirical manner, and ChatGPT does know what memes are, and I’m surprised it didn’t even know that I was being satirical without me being particularly aggressive in any way

[@Thatscrazyyourecrazy]

@@skystreem4860 it’s a chatbot -it always assumes the worst possible outcome of each conversation especially with “sensitive” topics. It’s developed to avoid that kind of conversation, it has guard rails .The phrase also starts/comes across as confrontational(given it doesn’t know memes). The chatbot shouldn’t know memes to do its job. I think they’ll (chatbot.) always be bias but in this case it just seems like trying to test the parameters of its political views which they def think about and give guardrails as to avoid a news story . Thank you for sharing that context

[@BillyBoyle-fz6op]

It is interesting how it says that the AI wouldn’t get emotional but it kind of felt like the citizen side kind of was 🤷‍♂️. Applying more on the emotional side verse the logical side

[@yusted1]

Not emotional in itself, just that most arguments for it are emotional appeals

[@zachariahrutledge3879]

I think it's because the citizenship argument is a fundamentally emotional one. Any solid point made for citizenship requires empathy for the immigrants' hardships to outweigh the potential risks of groups taking advantage of such a system.

[@LegDayLas]

AI can't feel emotion, it only seems like that because the only arguments for allowing blatantly illegal activity are bad ones.

[@lescobrandon8443]

Love how the anti-deportation AI still had to admit deportations are needed. It just had a much higher bar before someone could be deported. Specifically criminals and traffickers.

[@cameronno6039]

Can you name anyone that's ever argued differently? I've never seen anyone argue for completely open borders. The argument is always where to draw the line.

[@lescobrandon8443]

@@cameronno6039 There are people here doing just that.

[@cameronno6039]

@@lescobrandon8443 What people? I asked for an example.

[@lescobrandon8443]

@@cameronno6039 Just read the comments. Lots of them.

[@cameronno6039]

@@lescobrandon8443 Got you. I should have clarified, can you name any political figure or media figure that has argued for completely open borders?

[@freepalestinehaveagreatday6843]

Palestine Israel debate would be very interesting!

[@HongKong-tg5lh]

its not a debate, its just a war.

[@Someone42527]

​​@@HongKong-tg5lhThe "activist" means the conflict as a whole

[@MAGNETO-i1i]

War over a simple question. Who owns the land? ​@@HongKong-tg5lh

[@JustSomePerson8]

​@@MAGNETO-i1i government just put isreal there to start wars true story

[@Okami400]

Would be a huge one.

[@ang5798]

Btw I love how the "blue woman" Vs "red man" are not metaphors for democrats and republicans.

[@cameronno6039]

I actually dislike this. The roles are absolutely reversed from what is common in our actual society. If anything, neutral colors would be better.

[@gclowne174]

@@cameronno6039 I mean given i am not from america the choice of colour doesnt matter much, but yes in the light of american politics i would guess it might create some biases. What i would like to see is the prompts for the generation of both Ai. red seems heavily biased towards non-rational arguments.

[@cameronno6039]

@@gclowne174 What did you find irrational?

[@Foof0811]

​@@cameronno6039 I think the choice of color and gender having a conflicting psychological affiliation in your mind actually highlights an issue of ingrained bias on something inconsequential The fact that a color and gender (2 arbitrary factors to the debate) don't feel right, it shows how powerful bias and learned perception can be I'm not knocking you 😊 I felt the same way lol But it made me stop and think... Why the heck do I feel this way about something so inconsequential

[@ARIICKKFTW]

​@@Foof0811 Very wise, besides videos like this should be used not to affirm your beliefs but to challenge your biases. I think it's fitting.

[@TheCloudCreation]

Man, you have to do a better job of vetting the resources these AI models use to gather information. This video is a perfect representation of that fundamental flaw in AI. The "citizenship" AI's very first argument is the hypocrisy of having free trade but not free migration. There is not a single country in the entire world that has free trade. Every single country has tariifs and regulations in place that have to be paid and adhered to in order to conduct trade of the good you are trying to sell. You can't just make a product in Mexico, and sell it in the US. You have to obey US law and regulation that revolves around that product then pay a tariff to that product into the US. After you obey US customs, you can then begin trading that product on the US market.

[@pocketman202]

That’s more anarchistic free trade. When most people talk about free trade they mean away from mercantilism not complete lack of regulations or tariffs. The 18th century world was run off of various economic spheres rather than a liberal trade market system that we have today.

[@Kyndral22]

thats a pretty good point, its pretty much apples to apples comparison between tariffs and immigrants

[@JourG215]

You didn't understand the argument. In economics "free trade" is not a literal term... like ever. It refers to the FACT that there is a system agreed upon and established specifically to meet the demands of the population. Free trade as in no tariffs in exchange for regulatory compliance. (Im mega over simplifying here for your sake) The red AI is right to make this point. The deportation argument merely focuses on enforcement of the rules and does not take into account the demand for labor. At the end of the day labor is just another commodity but it is not treated with the same flexibility. As to your false assertion that no country has "free trade" www.cbp.gov/trade/north-american-free-trade-agreement#:~:text=North%20American%20Free%20Trade%20Agreement%20(NAFTA)%20established%20a%20free%2D,produced%20by%20the%20signatory%20nations.

[@Kyndral22]

@@JourG215 You made two whole paragraphs and didnt actually make a relevant point to counter what i said, you made up an argument to counter and spammed me with it. The trade still has to follow rules, (which i agree with because of my understanding of free trade, even though you think i dont understand that) so therefore immigration has to follow the rules too, if one party doenst like the established rules, then its up to them to decide not to engage. Also i wasnt even actually responding to the free trade part, I was responding to what i thought was the poster's actual point, starting at "You can't just make a product in Mexico"i was just noting that tarrifs and trade regulations are just like immigration regulations, so if you follow one, you should follow both. Idk why i had to make THREE paragraphs to explain all that, maybe you should try clarification before assumption next time.

[@JourG215]

​​@@Kyndral22Again you didn't understand the arguments. The debate wasn't about whether an immigration system should have rules but rather if deportation is a better solution than giving people a chance to become citizens. Of course there should be rules. Neither side argued there shouldn't be. In a nutshell the argument was: Orange argued the rules should be modernized to solve the reality of our current and future world. Whereas Blue argued that deportation is a necessity for a country to enforce immigration rules. I was also replying to the OP and not you specifically.

[@hirmusants1282]

Even AI cannot make a strong case for illegal immigrant….

[@leandro6234]

There's no good arguments against illegal immigration.

[@otpezdal]

For western governments, GDP matters more than security of its own citizens.

[@exanimato6586]

I'm more and more convinced that the red dude haves to be a full time reddit moderator at this point.

[@avivastudios2311]

😂😂😂

[@2sik_UK]

Either you or I are colour blind, because thats orange

[@mariano8512]

No biases. No emotions. Just pure unadulterated facts and logic. I AM HERE FOR THIS.

[@FondestAlloy56]

please NEVER consider AI made by humans with human knowledge to be unbiased. There are arguments humans have never made thus arguments an AI might never bring up do not hold these to gold standard but do hold these up as examples of real engagement with oppositional ideas and less as facts of the matter

[@ZJew]

@@FondestAlloy56 erveryone has a bias wether they admit it or not, the fact that both sides are saying that they should have compassion for the immigrants is in itself a bias

[@Fizbini1]

While I'm happy it picked deportation ai is definitely biased and is only as good as the data u feed it. Notice it didn't talk about culture and religion whatsoever? I think it would have been a much clearer victory for deportation.

[@JourG215]

Yeah there is the bias of the training data (who wrote it... humans) and bias in how that training data was chosen. Don't kid yourself.

[@KyleMiller-l3z]

​@Fizbini1 Because they are unnecessary it's not a argument its like saying Johnny is nice to the whole town therefore his smuggling of illegal goods is ok

[@YarGnawh]

the deportation AI already won the debate after the intro statement.

[@swiss119101]

I may have misunderstood but blue AI states is impossible to build the needed infrastructure regardless of money, and orange AIs response was to throw more money. 20:40

[@deejnutz2068]

You didn't misunderstand. This is basically the mindset of the pro illegal immigration types

[@narnia1233]

No, you’re correct.

[@arkwolfluis]

It reminds me of the argument of scarcity of food around the globe, that has been proven already that is not a quantity or Money problem, but truly a logistic one in our time

[@leandro6234]

Why the fuck would it be impossible?

[@narnia1233]

@@leandro6234 Can you please host a party? And please provide guest rooms to everyone who attends? BTW, no, you cannot have a guest list. And no, we won’t inform you how many are going to show up.

[@GHaKKt]

If you say AI don't have bias, then you're wrong. as long as AI is written by someone who is biased (Human) or trained on information that is biased (something a human would have said/done/created), then AI is biased in some way and can be manipulated.

[@HeydenHarvey]

than*

[@GHaKKt]

I think you mean I missed a , after the parenthesis. I've added that now, and it looks better. Also, I'm quite loose on capitalization in KZbin comments. Thanks for pointing it out, though. English isn't my first language, so sometimes I slip up.

[@Mr.Opossum218]

In all of these AI videos the bots are bias. Not from a slip up, but because they are given arguments to defend.

[@Informal_Jester]

@@Mr.Opossum218Exactly.

[@LegDayLas]

Obviously... Each AI was literally told how to think inorder for this to even happen. They didn't just ask the AI's "what do you thing?" they tell them "you are a pro deportation AI, explain why the prompts delivered to you from that other AI are wrong".

[@jasongroenewald3683]

In the end, the biggest, unanswered question still remains. What is a nation? You either have a nation or none at all. We are all residents of this planet but not residents of all nations. You cannot have it both ways. It is one or the other. Otherwise, the whole world simply becomes economic zones instead of nations. My position is that we should have nations and those require borders. That is the truthful debate we ought to have.

[@garrettord3304]

It's amusing that even the AI resorts to emotional arguments to support the Citizenship route

[@jennymora808]

As an immigrant, I followed the rules of this country. Why nowadays is so difficult to do that?? We have lived four years in a lawless country. The new administration has to implement the law! Period!!!!

[@PaulMEdwards]

Thank you! Glad to have you and others like you who immigrated legally.

[@Soulwrite7]

1) If the government itself is the one persecuting, then another nation should be obligated to offer sanctuary; whether this is persecution for racial, religious, or political reasons. The nation which accepts them should be the closest country which is not also carrying out the persecution. 2) Since time immemorial nations have been at war or waging civil wars. The traditional view was to stand and fight for your nation, to protect and defend you nation, community, and family. Not to flee into neighboring nations, let alone half a world away to a foreign land. Why accept the cowards, traitors, or defectors; if they were unable to be loyal to their birth nation. 3) If a nation is facing economic collapse due to policies or gangs, isn't it the governments responsibility to provide and protect. Is it not that peoples responsibility to have or change their culture to be one of industriousness and hardworking? While I am unsure how smart it is to import peoples, ideas, cultures from failed nations (you wouldn't employ an architect who's last building collapsed), I don't think that is even the argument to be made. Why should another nation, near or far, but especially far-off, clean up the economic mess made by their government. 4) If a nation is suffering from climate change isn't it that nations duty to fortify itself with walls, tunnels, or stratification? I repeat myself about responsibility, but in the event of a complete collapse, such as the sinking of an island nation. What nation would willing choose to have a colony within its boarders? No the sunk nation should be destroyed, its government, legal system, and enforcement. 5) In all the above examples. I will content that if a nation is so badly debased, criminalized, impoverished, besieged, or otherwise facing imminent description. Their always remains the final option of vasselization or selling the nation. This can be carried out in such a way that preserves the culture, but not the existing government or laws, and yields responsibility to another nation. 6) I am not opposed to immigration, but it shouldn't be used to off-set native birth-rates, rather incentives and culture should be changed within the nation to attack the core problem. Instead immigration should be used to incorporate people who have specialized skills and expertise, as well as people who have been successful in the market. Like how with fleeing it should be to the nearest nations, so you are somewhat familiar with language and culture; so too should immigration be preferenced (but not exclusive) to neighboring nations or parent nations/cultures. 7) If someone is at your boarder with no paperwork or identification they should be turned away. This is similar to how in court destruction of evidence is found to have occurred, the evidence is assumed to have been incriminating; so too must it be with the boarder. Likewise children smuggled (no documentation) across the boarder should be removed from the child abusers who are smuggling them, unless a DNA test can show that they are related, and the child professes that no abuse is occurring. 8) Immigration is desired as long as it is controlled tightly to deter criminals, and is vetted for merit and desire to integrate (renounce prior citizenship and adopt the common host identity while wishing your children to be of the host nations culture). Immigration rate should be measured as a % of the % growth of the nation via births. If their is a birth-rate collapse the cause of that needs addressing whether it is caused by infrastructure of other societal ills. 9) Tourism should be incentivized without limited except for what is enforceable. Yes this is harsh. But only through strength can mercy be shown. Altruism to other nations makes no sense if they drag you down too, altruism can only be administered from strong uncompromising footing, without threat of peer. Remember, do not feed the birds, as this will create a dependence relationship, if you stop feeding the birds they will starve and undergo population collapse as it was inflated due to being artificially propped up by your contributions. Instead teach the birds where food is to be found and how to get it.

[@AdolfoAngelSaldanaLara]

Your quote made no sense to what you wrote. I think you are confused based on your quote and what you wrote. My question on this is how does a country make immigration decisions based on merit? What are the qualifications? My next question is based on your quote. How does a country teach someone to work for themselves when you are disincentivizing immigration as a whole, from tourism to asylum-seeking, and many other things based on your statement?

[@endloesung_der_braunen_frage]

Blablabla. Alot of words to say you're a neo nazi.

[@disneylandmeetscoachella5237]

we aint reading all that

[@karndorbad6536]

lol you are to stupid to read bro

[@Soulwrite7]

@@AdolfoAngelSaldanaLara If you have a country which is undergoing starvation, then perhaps if the starvation is due to some temporary factor, one nation making a loan to another in the form of food, can make sense. But if you have a nation which appears perpetually starved of food, and that country is sustained by gifts, there is a problem. The problem intensifies if despite starving the population of that nation continues to grow demanding subsequent larger parcels of gifted food. When a population increases beyond what its environment can support, starvation occurs to return population levels to normal levels. By gifting resources to the population you allow the population to soar far more numerous that it would have otherwise, the die-back due to starvation cause if the gifting ceased appears immoral. Yet what I find immoral is turning an undeveloped nation into a population engine to import cheap labor under the guise of them 'fleeing starvation'. I wrote an analogy for this as a tangential, post-script, errant thought. I apologies I wasn't more clear in my conveyance or decisive in my inclusion of the idea. --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- In regards to you question about merit, as it is a fair question. I would break it into three categories; 1) Expertise, 2) Performance, 3) Compatibility. Each would be given a score from 0-1, with the sum of your highest two scores being used to measure merit. 1) Expertise. This encapsulates specialist technical skills requested by a company or organization. The company would have to pay in order to bring the person in for example $(200,000 - [annual income]) [so they would pay more for someone making less, to encourage local employment and promotion.] As time in the workforce is a factor at play age should be considered, I can't see people working beyond 100 even in the most cushy yet skill job. Formula : ([annual income]/200000)*((100-[persons age])/100) {where the result is capped at 1 - if you are not requested by a company this is 0} 2) Performance. This encapsulates the ability to perform in the market/economy. Formula : ([total assets] - [average house price] - [average new car price] - [average insurance annual payment]) / ([total liabilities] + [total dept]) {where the result is capped at 1 - if you refuse to supply information this is 0} 3) Compatibility. There will be a list of all countries given [score]s between 1 and 0.3, following a normal distribution (few countries get 1 or 0.3, most get 0.65). A quick test for [literacy] and [oral] language is given. Formula : (([literacy + [oral]) /2) * [score] {where the result is capped at 1 - if you refuse to take the assessment this is 0} Some things to acknowledge. This is a fairly formulaic system to hopefully facilitate quick approval times. By assess two of the three does mean anyone can get in, with, for example country and language only playing a factor if the former two are low, or for example you don't have to rely on a explicit request from a company if you have good assets and will be a good cultural 'fit'. Country scores will have as nuanced considerations political similarity (democracy, dictator, monarch, etc..), cultural similarity (queuing, tipping, face concealment, etc..), legal similarities (driving, firearms, public decency, etc..). The idea is to take a measure of how much friction will be generated due to culture differences both for the person arriving, and your citizens.

[@johnnyw4life]

No deportation side: it’s gonna happen anyway. Just let it! Don’t be mean!

[@TravisCreighton]

Points not argued. Contributions to SS is currently not enough with the per capita draw. Adding more contributors also adds more draw, and there is no reason to expect the draw rate would diminish with illegal migrants. The same goes with resources. Around the 20 min mark, the argument was that money spent on deportation could have gone to subsidizing housing builds. This is just more draw on the legal citizenry via taxation for either deportation or subsidized housing. This financial pressure is all before any hint of illegal immigrant tax contribution. Any possible migrant benefit would be realized long after the burden to the citizen. Also, how do immigrants legally work prior to obtaining work visas? How does the employer collect the federal taxes? How does the immigrant pay the taxes? Identity theft of someone's SS number? What if wages are reported on that SSN but taxes aren't paid? Now some innocent ID theft victim has a problem.

[@rgannon15]

The US government gives illegal immigrants TIN numbers. Tax identification numbers in place of SSN. I'm a US citizen, but i know illegal immigrants who work with these TIN numbers. The TIN number works so that they pay taxes and don't need a fake SSN. the US government already knows who's here illegally with these numbers. They simply aren't doing anything about it. Or they are protected by sanctuary cities.

[@MrDj232]

@@TravisCreighton To answer the series of questions at the end, they don't. Illegal immigrants don't pay income tax. Sales tax, which is nearly unavoidable, is the reason used to say illegals pay taxes.

[@hanamlchl]

There are Border Patrol whistleblowers alleging that elderly migrants are receiving maximum SS benefits above and beyond regular American citizens.

[@SirCharlesLikesChurros]

This was really cool to watch. Only wish "draw" wasn't an option for the judges lol.

[@hanamlchl]

There's absolutely zero consideration for the long term impact on the host nation having an unlimited number of migrants displacing or changing its national demographic.

[@kevinchapman148]

This video makes me realize that we don’t expect enough of presidential candidates. When even AI provides us with more thoughtful and substantive debates then the two candidates running for control over the country’s law enforcement.

[@BickleyLTO]

Idk man.. seemed pretty clear that one president wants border security and the other says that's racist lmao

[@cloudoftime]

That's because people are stupid. The reason we have the political system we do is because they figured out what works on people. It's not a random coincidence that we get either morons or a-holes (or both simultaneously) every time. They just play on people's fears and other emotions. They tried to run candidates who could provide more substance in their campaigns and it didn't work. Instead, they make false promises to fix the problems that they exaggerate and blame the other side for. It's all vacuous lies and posturing.

[@yusted1]

There are candidates who do. However the showman nature of elections make those discussions boring and unappealing

[@MAGNETO-i1i]

Love the short 10-15 second arguments, makes them more realistic

[@robertwhaley8069]

Saying that our nation needs illegal immigrants for our workforce is one of dumbest things iv ever heard, iv seen thousands of Americans loose there jobs for cheap poor quality immigrants.

[@DustinoDelapine]

I would argue that most Americans work white collar jobs or have the ability to do so, and only a small minority of those Americans struggle to do so. However, that doesn’t mean that we need immigrants (legal or not) to supply our economy. However, I don’t understand the reasoning behind a statistical based argument against an argument that protects basic human rights. They leave their countries for better opportunities, safety, and the progression of their own family’s future. The argument to deport these people because some smuggle in illegal substances undermines the legitimacy of other asylum seekers, for it is a dangerous precedent to put an immigrant who smuggles in illegal substances with one who is simply trying to live their own life, safe and sound for their family, and especially, their future.

[@robertwhaley8069]

@DustinoDelapine iv seen with my own eyes thousands of construction companies collapse because of the cheap Mexican labor force, if you want to see just how bad it really is, take a drive, look in any construction zone, any crop of fruits and vegetables, tree work, boat crew, or fair, they have infested them all , and have stolen jobs from hard working Americans, because they are cheap labor and any smart business owner knows that money runs the country, so they choose the cheap illegal labor, over the price of legal labor, it's got nothing to with Americans not wanting the work. the illegal worker does not work harder than any American worker and the the jobs they stole we're very much wanted . We do not need them for anything.

[@InternetMonster1]

Companies used to compete for workers by offering competitive wages and upward mobility. Now Americans compete with illegals for jobs that offer the lowest of the low payment and zero benefits. Also, consumers now have to deal with low quality service from people who either cannot perform a job properly or aren't paid enough to care.

[@algomi9280]

Im a citizen that was born in El Salvador and it was my early childhood. From what I experienced, I have seen both of these sides. But in the end I also agree with deportation. Laws were never made for the good people but to rule the wicked. Before we can fix immigrantion we need the laws. Also people needs to remember interstates mass migration of the past. "Okies, yankies, etc"

[@Jinxx9081]

I agree, immigration can be a great asset to the country so long as it is done properly. If we focus more on improving the immigration process for legal immigrants, it will solve a lot of problems and strengthen the nation as a whole.

[@OfficialCrashnet]

This was just like real life. The pro-amnesty position just moved goal post after goal post and conflation with unrelated conjecture.

[@hanamlchl]

I want to know how the jury AI felt that the pro-amnesty accurately rebutted or challenged the pro-deportation AI's points? "Justice will be different" is a vacuous and empty statement.

[@OfficialCrashnet]

@@hanamlchl a nice change to this would be if they post at the end how the jury felt for each point. For me it was odd that Gemini who has the most manipulated algorithm in this case actually sided with a more non-left leaning position.

[@Claire-.-]

who's illegally migrating because of climate change ?!

[@Twodoor1]

About 2 people globably probably

[@KevinSmith-qi5yn]

So, when I take a raft from Wales to Ireland to claim Asylum. I think claiming Climate Change would be a way I could do it.

[@TyrellMcK]

@considering that none of you look up half the things you answer, it’s kinda ridiculous, don’t you think? Did you research any of the climates illegal immigrants came from?

[@Redmanticore]

usa should move to north europe then because usa has tornadoes and fires every year. so should russia move to finland because russia has fires and floods every year. all because of climate chaaange

[@WalkingTripod7]

As a centrist, I find this both refreshing and sad as it takes AI to have a debate where there are no petty remarks about the other persons appearance or things of that sort. Pure politics and valid points all aiming to solve a problem.

[@scubadivingadventures1]

To me the pro-deportation AI didn’t mention a lot of valid points, such as: 1) intelligence differential between migrants vs us, which ends up impacting quality of life, crime rates, overall standard of living, etc; 2) they only really pay sales tax, not income taxes; 3) they end up costing more in “benefits” than they actually provide in tax revenue, thus being a huge net loss to the tune of over $100 billion a year Basically it only focused on why deportation is better for the illegal immigrants themselves and why border security as an idea is important. But it didn’t get into the specific consequences of Latin Americans and Haitians coming here in massive numbers illegally

[@axeldaval3410]

Round 1: "you cant rely on the system because it's overloaded....my solution is to give them a free pass, and increase the workload of the system" 😂😂😂 makes no sense

[@HopeLightwell]

I wish the focus on punishment for breaking a law argument would have sparked a debate about forgiveness in law .i.e. pardons, parole, probation, etc... if laws and punishment are to be unforgiving regarding immigration law, then why offer forgiveness regarding any offense?

[@ualaw77]

The problem, I believe, is that Americans know almost nothing about our immigration policies and procedures. Our attitudes toward immigration comes from a place of profound ignorance. The thought that a law-breaker might escape punishment offends our sense of right and wrong, not too surprisingly. In our ignorance, we demand that they suffer in ways totally out of proportion to their perceived offenses, not realizing the myriad forms of punishment implicit in their lack of status which they are forced to endure every day.

[@Layarion]

the orange one sounds very emotional lol

[@JaredaSohn]

😂

[@briangueringer3673]

Kind of strange that there wasnt much a discussion about culture.

[@tm-ym2ye]

As a black person illegal migration hurts a lot. We use to be the day labor and the gardener and maid that stop us from being as criminal. Also I don't know one black person that comment a known felony and just got let go let alone money and housing.. my ppl have complained about reparations for 160yrs and never got it but these ppl get it. wtf. it's dumb on its face to let ppl from another country come here on mass they are running for a reason but at those number they would turn this place into the place they left illegal migration don't get socializes to our ways the same way a legal migrate does cheap labor also stop innovation in productivity efficiency.

[@DT-yl6yb]

An interesting take on both sides. I for one though think that the ability to have deportation is necessary in order to maintain the "basic rule of Law". It is important to remind everyone that "NO ONE IS ABOVE THE LAW."

[@cameronno6039]

SC just said the president is above the law. There are plenty of ways corporations and wealthy are above the law. If the fine for doing something is $1000 but the profit is $1001, you incentivize the risk of being penalized for money. The reality is many laws aren't needed. Law =/= morality.

[@karndorbad6536]

California, Denver and New York are fucking around and finding out as we speak with criminals.

[@paulborchart196]

🇱🇷 Please don’t censor this??? Tom we need you more than ever! Lets do somthing radical like helping our homeless veterens and North Carolina hurrican victims, they are left out in the cold. Does anyone have a problem with this?

[@user-kv5zd8hf3t]

Here in Belgium (and other European countries) we have a parallel society created by legal migrants due to the incompatibility of our cultures (Christians and Muslims). A very clear case that legal migration can also lead to a more dangerous society. You also cannot prove this by statistics because these people are usually second or third generation migrants and were given citizenship and, contrary to the USA, ethnicity/race is not something our government keeps track of. So when they say that "only" 40% of our prisons are people with a migration background, the actual number is much, much higher

[@valleryflores.4135]

this needs to keep going! good ideas come from this

[@CD-vb9fi]

We are past good ideas... this issue has been cemented in identity politics.

[@Claire-.-]

At least both sides agree that criminals need to go

[@pr1sm828]

Exactly. Illegal immigration is illegal. They need to go.

[@karndorbad6536]

They are all criminals end of story, I’m so sick of this goal post moving bull shit either we have boarders and laws or we don’t

[@Redmanticore]

@@karndorbad6536 everyone who ever employed a criminal is a criminal too, helping organized crime, so all small or big business owners should be put to jail who ever hired an illegal. thats breaking the law. and their businesses confiscated to the government by using RICO act. that means all farmers.

[@Kyndral22]

in summation of Deport: Right now there are issues with illegal immigration and we need to fix that so that things will get better and we can help more when we are able in the future in summation of Citizen: Thats not reality though, here is my hypothetical, future based ultimatum, repeated ad nauseam in lieu of actual arguments

[@JaredaSohn]

Yep 😂

[@Sorain1]

And that reflects the data made up of the publicly available arguments both sides make. It rather easily exposes the problem. You can't rationally argue someone out of a conclusion they didn't reach via rationality.

[@Kyndral22]

@@Sorain1 fair assessment, kind of like the "Fools bring you down to their level and beat you with experience"

[@777NCM]

Note the pro-deportation side doesn't even mention immigrant crime and those that have a criminal record in their home countries. It also doesn't go into any of the negative side effects of immigration, such as higher housing costs because demand goes up. AI isn't allowed to bring up those kinds of issues because a lot of people get triggered.

[@1398go]

Don’t think we should encourage AI to take over our thinking.

[@13ryan]

I know right. People are listening to A.I as if it can’t be flawed in some way . Not only on immigration but on a whole range of topics and that’s what’s truly scary here, people letting A.I. influence their way thinking

[@jerseyimperial]

Unfortunately, economic hardship does not qualify you for amnesty in the U.S.

[@Armando-th5cu]

This is how US companies take advantage of the system. If you have a country full of people with little to no rights then you can exploit them for cheap labor; exploitation of immigrants within the confines of the border is just too much in your face. Keeping immigrants out of the US let’s you exploit them easier and with less consequences.

[@Armando-th5cu]

One day all labor will be paid for equally no matter where you are in the world.

[@jerseyimperial]

@Armando-th5cu not a chance.

[@Armando-th5cu]

@@jerseyimperial what makes you say that?

[@lukakarepa484]

​@Armando-th5cu simple answer is that there isn't equal distribution of resources, regulations, climate etc on the planet. If everything was equal pay we'd probably all be living in slums, that or robotic slave labor removing the need for human labor b/c there will always be labor that is more desirable than other and should be appropriately compensated. A bus boy is not equal to a head chef and if you don't incentivise the head chef then what's the point of trying to be a head chef

[@JohnsonJLB]

Separating families is completely and utterly justified and needed! 1. American citizens families are separated when there are allegations of domestic violence and/or a traffic stop and intoxication is involved. 2. We don't know if the "wife" is actually just a woman being trafficked. 3. We don't know if the "children" are actually being trafficked. The last two point's are much more important than the first, but the 1st is mentioned to prove a point. We already do this to American citizens why wouldn't we to people who are 1. not citizens and 2. broke the law.

[@karndorbad6536]

So tired of this two tier policing

[@midnull6009]

That's actually a good point! Didn't really think about this!

[@mxjame546]

The citizen AI use mostly emotion speculation against fact base deportation AI. This feel exactly the same, nothing new when two human of both side debate on this issue, only different that the fact goes harder here

[@KeithDeutsch]

Without deportation ability there can be no control at all.

[@Raderade1-pt3om]

Citizenship AI assumes migrants are fleeing some doomsday scenario, but most aren’t fleeing persecution or disaster. They simply believe they will have an easier, better life once they cross into the USA, rather than working to improve their own country. Instead, they end up stuck in asylums or miserable for a long time before they can settle, often evading authorities for much of their lives if they are undocumented. They are also exploited for cheap labor by companies that could report them, becoming a burden on the system in a society already struggling with job shortages, poverty, and a homelessness crisis. Resources that could be used to tackle these are stretched thin and also for public services for the existing population. I’m all for legal immigration that adds value to the country, not just takes from it, and I also support genuine asylum seekers who truly need it. What’s happening now is a literal invasion of millions of illegal migrants. So, whats a country without its borders? We should put the military upto the task to tackle this issue, rather than focusing solely on taking care of endless waves of migration, while some politicians turn the nation into a massive asylum. This can’t continue like this.

[@lobotuba]

The debate weighed international law with equal precedent to national sovereignty. That assumption seems to be larger than this debate. The first question should be, are national borders ethical? Then use that debate to train the AI for this debate.

[@JaredaSohn]

I agree, if not then the assumption should be that national borders are ethical.

[@lobotuba]

@@JaredaSohn Agreed. Always default to tradition, as loads of smart people spent thousands of years thinking through things.

[@tonytony87]

@@lobotuba Tradition shows that National borders are a very modern thing. Traditionaly these borders where about which lord/house you pay taxes too. But people are always free to migrate through these borders. The borders are more about where tax money goes not about language, culture or even race. Johnny Harris atuallyhas a very cool video about this!

[@lobotuba]

@@tonytony87 if by recent you mean thousand of years. Rome made you return to your home town for the census.

[@obiwf]

I find this so refreshing. I wish Congress (after deliberation) listens to an AI debate on the issue before taking a vote. This could really be the future 😂

[@slashyslicker4471]

These videos really help to understand both the sides rather than creating an echo chamber which is much needed in today's political environment especially on social media. I am really thankful to you for creating these videos. Here in my opinion the AI debating for immigrations won but it was close as the one debating against them pointed out some really great points like the methodology to deport these immigrants more often then not causes the livelihood of some good people who even though entered the country illegally are doing a net positive for the society to get ruined, but ultimately I would prioritize the safety and lives of millions of citizens of a country rather than try and save those few hundred people, it is quite a "the end justifies the means" kind of approach but it is what is necessary in today's world. That being said you also have to acknowledge the fact that the immigration policies and legal framework regarding those policies need an overhaul and revamp to better accommodate for people who earnestly and willingly follow the legal path and incentivize them to do so by making it easier for them especially for the ones who have already assimilated themselves into the country and it's culture.

[@suicune3776]

I like these videos :3 Oddly enough these AIs are better at debating these things than 90% of human debaters.

[@VersDarkmoor]

The arguments completely ignore risks associated with spies / saboteurs blending in with the illegal migrants coming in. In Europe there have been several cases of fires and explosions happening in critical infrastructure in central europe (Poland, Germany, other), even in munition plants providing crucial 155mm rounds for the UARU war effort, after a large inflow of imigrants. So there is also a huge security argument, that was completely skipped in this AI discussion.

[@caplosal]

Actually the "Deportation" side argued for security concerns but the "Citizen" side just said that we need to do police checks on them. The latter said it without knowing in real practice it is infeasible to know whether an illegal immigrant ever committed any crime in their home country because by claiming asylum they are exempted from submitting a police certificate from the country they claim is persecuting them at all (If we ask for one then it risks signalling to the country of alleged persecution where the protected person is (contrary to our Refugee Convention obligations) and may expose family and friends in that country to risk). Meanwhile for legal immigrants, a police certificate is almost always mandatory as part of the application.

[@jameswhittom22]

Round 1 misses a key point, how much should the existing population be forced to suffer for those incoming. As the limited resources means higher prices on food, rent, and other costs, while simultaneously artificially retarding wage growth by not having a limited workforce to force businesses to compete with higher wages.

[@JeremiBenquar1995]

Making an AI defend an undefendable position of illegal immigration doesn't make it sound any better. Most of the arguments it gives revolve around these non-quantifiable, unrealistic, and emotionally-charged ideas. Why? Because the AI is trained by the same words of the people who defend that position, which are arbitrary, unrealistic, and emotionally charged. It simply wraps those unsound arguments inside pretty words.

[@JaredaSohn]

Facts

[@MyWatermelonz]

"Five ai judges from top platforms." This isnt helpful. The model you choose makes a huge difference as does the sampling methods. You need to mention these things. Claude, for example, is EXTREMELY sensitive and "safety regulated." Where as you can get an abliterated or orthogonal llama model that's entirely uncensored. I dont think this video tells much without mentioning these things. Also, add in web search for pulling up points and it's a whole new ballgame. Anyway, illegal immigration is bad, and immigration overall in the west has been bad recently. Bringing in all these people with differnt cultures that reject local culture and work for poverty wages so corporations wont have to actually pay reasonable wages to citizens.

[@CamoLoTiProd]

Personally, I found the closing argument of the Deportation AI to be my favorite part of the video. Even in daily human life, we have the power to say yes to things because we also have the power to say no. If we had to accept every little thing that came our way, we'd overwhelm ourselves and fundamentally collapse. Additionally, the government and its citizens matter more than the immigrants coming into the country, whether we like it or not. I love legal immigrants, but the gov't should prioritize its citizens rather than the new people coming in. We all hate when companies give great deals for new customers and don't give great deals to older customers. We find it unfair and unjust. How then could we say that immigrants, especially illegal immigrants, are meant to be valued at the same amount as citizens, especially since they broke the law coming in. That's completely unfair both to the legal immigrants and citizens of any country illegal immigrants enter into.

[@vonchybon7133]

These are the only debates I am willing to watch and trust in order to form opinions about important topics.

[@JonOleksiuk]

thanks for that trust....my goal is to configure these models to give the absolute best arguments for the opposing sides of any topic.

[@vonchybon7133]

@ is there a way you could contact X or another open source and popular platform to advertise these videos more? I think it would help a lot

[@shaunm7924]

AI debates are an amazing idea! I love you guys for doing this. : )

[@JonOleksiuk]

thanks for the sub and comment! have a nice night.

[@CypherusMcClain]

7:38 - "... ENHANCED BOARDER TECHNOLOGY." - Citizenship AI So, we DO need boarders. We DO need to enforce them in some kind of way. Let's have the most advanced boarder in the world and make sure that people just come here legally. Asylum or opportunity. I agree that maybe immigration reform is in order, but completely removing a boarder and just allowing mass immigration is simply ludicrous. Cherry Picker of the year award goes to me. Thank you. :^)

[@invaderjoshua6280]

You can't have no human emotions when emotional humans programmed the AI.

[@royd-l]

Just because someone is a refugee seeking asylum doesn’t mean they’re entitled to refuge. That’s like saying individuals displaced by natural disasters are entitled to seek refuge in your house whether you like it or not.

[@twotreasurehunters]

the AI do not go into the criminal activy made easy by open boarder attitudes nor the number of deaths increased by criminals who cross open boarder. they also do not consider many poor nations have very little law enforcement so using the idea of criminal history is invalid.

[@hanamlchl]

YT actively censors any comments to those ends.

[@pizza8725]

The real question is Would all the budget be spent on integration but with also quite a few unintegrated individuals be better than spending that budget on reinforcing your borders knowing that you will lose quite a lot of labour

[@michaelspinks9822]

Was this really checked for facts and logical fallacies?

[@Xylos144]

Kinda hard to do that when orange's position is dependent on them.

[@karndorbad6536]

Ok please explain

[@Kybalion868]

just like with everything in life both sides are right. (all truths are but half truths, all paradoxes can be reconciled)

[@MagiKez]

The fact that the pro deportation side called them "illegal immigrants" and not the more accurate term "criminal alien" or at least illegal alien leads me to believe that it was not fed data that allows it to understand the issue

[@JaredaSohn]

I caught that as well. Even still they definitely made the more logical argument and imao argued for the correct stance.

[@LexGoyle]

Semantics. The Deportation AI still made solid arguments.

[@MagiKez]

@LexGoyle arguments were actually pretty bad. 2/10. Clearly has a poor grasp on the subject

[@smithappiah3949]

How in the world are we supposed to identify threats if the freaking security isn't there! Isn't that what security is for? To identify threats???

[@immylon4608]

wow this debate is much more in depth than this years presidential debate XD

[@derek978]

I love LOVE it when they confront each other about statements they made that they haven't responded to.

[@geo4322]

Politicians should take note

[@capybareno23]

The bad faith arguments ruin the AI debate. It implies a disconnect when there exists none

[@ivannapolsk9421]

Man, they really are getting close to humans.

[@cloroxbleach6673]

Even A.I can't make mass deportation sound sane.

[@LexGoyle]

What are you talking about? That AI made solid arguments whereas the Citizenship AI made emotionally charged arguments.

[@cloroxbleach6673]

@LexGoyle citizen ship A.I kept referencing laws and how it would negatively impact the over all country. The deportation argument basically kept saying we gota deport them because we just gota do it.

[@BPMa14n]

This is the clearest debate on the matter I have ever heard. Scary

[@cliffordmjordan]

WOW! This is an EXCELLENT method of hearing the BEST arguments on both sides of an issue.

[@addgame7961]

You need a third AI that asks them the hard questions that neither of them is talking about.

[@darkling6655]

Oh yes, anarchy versus governance. It was fun to watch but if this was a presidential debate I'll won't risk my livelihood on someone that wishes for anarchy.

[@MatthewStroud-li2mm]

The reason for decision at 8:15 is crazy. Judge Claude basically said “hey, the citizenship side made good points but because they argued how undocumented immigrants are important on a humanitarian basis and an economic one, i sided with mass deportation” Just because you call something a contradiction doesnt mean it is! This is so goofy

[@neilxpeart]

I think this experiment demonstrates that LLM's aren't thinking machines. Just pattern matchers. That, coupled with the "safety" guardrails imposed which will bias toward specific worldviews.

[@ryanburris6331]

Love the channel. This is two different debates rolled into one that doesn't work against the other. The Citizenship AI is trying to debate a humane way that we handle the illegals already in the country, while the Deportation AI is debating how we handle the physical border itself. Both converstions are important, I feel both are winning their respective arguments while neither one of them is actually debating the same thing to each other.

[@mjk9388]

Whenever I see debates like this I always think about the question "What would have to be true in order for the problem to go away?" To me, it's asking what has to be true for unobstructed legal immigration that's fast, secure, legal and respectful.

[@dyingmaisy]

I think very few people realize how limited "legal" immigration opportunities are. In addition, without increased infrastructure, temporary work visas in critical areas become ineffective programs. I heard a rancher talk about vacheros he needs to hire 6 months of the year. The processing takes 5 months or more and frequently isn't approved by the time he needs help. Everyone is frustrated and of course he sometimes hires them illegally because the system doesn't work.

[@Rensune]

There are 3 options for increasing wage value 1) Ban automation (not going to happen 2) Ban Women in the workplace (cutting the size of the workforce in half, overnight. Also not going to happen) 3) Deportation Which do you think most people would pick?

[@HeatherWP]

I vote for option 2! I don’t wanna work. Who the heck would support me though 😂

[@Rensune]

@HeatherWP that's what husbands are for. The number of "traditional" families I've met where the mother runs everything is almost hilarious. Women seem to have a lot more power that way

[@HeatherWP]

@@Rensune it’s funny because I can’t seem to find a guy that believes in traditional anything. I thought I did a long time ago. I married the guy. Then all the sudden after my second child he decided he needed to be an at home dad because I could make more money than he did. It was true but he sat on the couch for the next 4 years, including when both kids were in school. Then I divorced him. By the time I started dating, the first question out of any guy’s mouth is always “what do you do for a living?”. Why does it matter so much what I do?

[@Rensune]

@@HeatherWP that's weird: most men I know don't care (what kind of job a woman does).

[@HeatherWP]

@@Rensune I guess it’s what I get for being born and raised and remaining in a blue state. Can’t leave NJ though. My whole life and family is here

[@101mythbuster]

The deportation AI seems to be making the same old tired strawman argument about open borders, as if we weren't already trying to prevent illegal entry into the US as much as possible. Conflating this with the topic of mass deportation is just a flawed argument, as is the notion that the influx of immigration is driven solely by internal policies that insentivise coming to the US and not primarily by external economic and other global factors.