What if Japan Had Converted To Christianity?

[@AlternateHistoryHub]

Happy Fourth of July. If you want more content I have another channel where I talk about pointless stuff. Just released a video about Transformers 2. Thanks for the support! kzbin.info/www/bejne/f37EZmqVntl8grs

[@darklordmalthric3633]

What if japan won the imjin war

[@that1worldcitizen152]

Happy Fourth of July 🇺🇸

[@Afish8me2china]

Happy 4th, we’re talking about Japan

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

Well the Founding Fathers excluded Women, Black people, and oppressed gay people so who cares about their lukewarm accomplishments. Rebel Canadians had better policies. No joke.

[@ARandomHumanBein]

Im Italian, what's the 4th of July?

[@yankee3875]

Fun fact: One of the most famous Japanese Christians was Justo Takayama Ukon, a samurai and Daimyo who was baptized a Catholic at age 12 but really became pious around age 20. He eventually had to flee to the Philippines and died in 1615. He was beatified in 2017 which puts him one step away from officially being declared a Saint

[@MediumDSpeaks]

Justo isn't a traditionally Japanese name, was his name Spanish or Portugese influenced as well? That's really interesting if so

[@JJMHigner]

Interesting!

[@MediumDSpeaks]

I just looked it up, yes it was, his first name is written in Katakana, something I didn't realize they were doing in the 1500s and very early 1600s! Cool!

[@rimfire8217]

The Holyman of Japan

[@JosePineda-cy6om]

@@MediumDSpeaks Yes, "justo" literally means "just" or "fair". In the Spanish speaking world it's considered a very old-fashioned name so you won't find much people younger than 60 bearing it

[@KingsandGenerals]

Thank you for the shout-out, appreciate it!

[@Jahabbeez]

Loved the video man!

[@ashiwashi]

@Kurtis boo

[@jasonsantos3037]

That is a great video you made

[@angrymanwithsillymoustasche]

666 likes

[@scintillam_dei]

Ukraine is gay. I did a video proving that the NATO logo has a swastika in it.

[@imightbeaz]

The idea of a crusader samurai is actually pretty terrifying.

[@thehammurabichode7994]

And funny

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

They shall retake Nanking in the Name of God and Anime

[@1224chrisng]

I mean, wasn't there a samurai that went to Spanish Mexico and visited a descendant of the Aztecs?

[@NeostormXLMAX]

japan was closer to becoming muslim than christian

[@RhodesianSAS-gn4qp]

In visualisation yes, they would be still weaker than Templars or Teutons, the armor and swords were not practical

[@gamebawesome]

Kinda disappointed you didn’t mention Oda Nobunaga. He was actually pretty open to Westerners and Christians, allowing them to set up churches under his rule

[@ottovonjizzmark9864]

No video about Japan is complete without at least one mentioning of Oda Nobunaga

[@dyingearth]

And he was assassinated. He he not been assassinated, Japan would be a very different place.

[@desu8990]

I'd say the issue with that is while yes, he was open to Christians, he also wasn't open to potential dissenters. Look at what he did to the Ikko Ikki and you might get an idea of what would happen if Christians continued growing

[@eagle162]

I don't know his openness to Western stuff is greatly exaggerated you just got to look depictions of him wearing Western style armor even though there is no actual evidence for that whatsoever.

[@arjanzweers6542]

Which he only did for practical reasons, not out of sympathy for their cause. Like Tokugawa, did he find them to undermine his authority, the result would have been the same and westerners and Christians would have been purged from Japan

[@fishside_8757]

I like the idea that “Those that live by the Sword, die by the sword” would be interpreted entirely different by Samurai and would read it as a reference to seppuku

[@Player-re9mo]

Psalm 144 "Praise be to the LORD my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle. He is my loving God and my fortress, my stronghold and my deliverer, my shield, in whom I take refuge, who subdues peoples under me." A Christian Samurai would be quite terrifying indeed.

[@senorsombrero1275]

Samurai: this jesus guy really knows whats up

[@AudieHolland]

Death before Dishonour - How about a life after death?

[@warlordofbritannia]

They’d basically be Joshua Graham from Fallout New Vegas *We can’t expect for God to do all the work*

[@Player-re9mo]

@pyropulse Chill dude! I wasn't engaged in a debate in order to accuse me of misquoting scripture. It was just fun way of thinking what verses a Christian Samurai would use, that also align with his profession.

[@Godzeller3143]

“There was Christianity in Japan until there wasn’t” That is frighteningly accurate.

[@andrewpatton5114]

Not quite. There were a few Christians left when missionaries returned, having passed the faith from parent to child orally for 250 years.

[@braxtonjones6163]

@@andrewpatton5114Exactly thousands practiced in secret same in other countries where Christianity is persecuted

[@tlaloqq]

@@braxtonjones6163 funny how christians went from being persecuted to being the largest persecutors of all time

[@nodnarbleahcim5097]

If only all nations could be so lucky

[@some_nigerianguy]

​@@nodnarbleahcim5097wdym by that? Why do u hate Christianity?

[@Detahramet]

As an interesting aside, in Japan religion is a largely individual matter. To give an example, only around 3% of Japan is Christian, but around a fifth all marriage are Christian ceremonies. A lot of it comes down to ritual, but for just as many its simply a matter of personal experience. Basically, given that Shinto and Buddhism being largely decentralized and (some would argue) unorganized religions, stated belief is far more complicated than face value.

[@saldiven2009]

One correction. Less than 3% of Japan follows any Abrahamic religion (Judaism, Christianity, and Islam), with about 1% following Christianity. This is based on the Japanese Agency for Cultural Affairs 2022 report on religions in the country.

[@TheKalihiMan]

It seems to be common for people conditioned to conceptualize religion in a purely Abrahamic framework not to fully grasp how other traditions deal with things like faith and adherence. The video cites data that over 60% of respondants in Japan had no religious affiliation or were irreligious, but this only reflects affiliation with organized religion. This same survey also reports that only 3% of respondants identify with Shinto, and these are overwhelmingly members of the clergy. Other surveys indicate that 70% of respondants adhere to Shinto in some form, while 70% also adhere to Buddhism in some form. This obviously adds up to over 100%. It isn’t that the religions are “unorganized” (various Buddhist traditions in Japan have a long history of theological disputes, and Shinto was at one point co-opted and codified by the Imperial government to solidify their authority), but Eastern religions tend to be much more fluid in terms of adherence and identity than the Abrahamic faiths. What can be most confusing to a Western observer is that none of these survey results are mutually exclusive in the Japanese worldview. In Japan, it is extremely common for people who practice both Shinto and Buddhist rites on a regular basis and may also have had a Christian wedding to identify with none of them and even consider themselves completely irreligious. Often these practices are considered an extension of being Japanese without any explicitly religious connotations, which is why the Empire of Japan was officially a secular state, yet also declared the descent of the Emperor from the sun goddess Amaterasu as historical fact as official state policy, and also mandated certain state-sanctioned Shinto practices regardless of one’s stated religious affiliation.

[@fish5671]

@@TheKalihiManIf a state can straight bend an entire religion to their will and once the state colapses the religion goes back to what it was, i think this may have implications of this religion being unogarnized to say the least.

[@ethanetn]

There definitly would have been a unique aesthetic. Japanese christian artwork is some of my favority kinds of art so i cant imagine what japanese cathedrals would be like in their own right. Along with the fact that the posibility of a japanese pope is greater than 0%

[@Player-re9mo]

Maybe it would be similar to Eastern Orthodoxy artwork? Prioritizing symbolism over realism.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

"Japanese christian artwork is some of my favority kinds" - I've watched Evangelion so I can support this! (Even though Anno does not follow Christianity and mostly just thought Angel imagery looked cool and never expected the show to be seen by Westerners)

[@bustavonnutz]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 He took themes from the book of Revelation to write his plot; definitely directly inspired by Christianity, especially the ending.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@bustavonnutz He also said that if he knew Evangelion was going to be viewed by Westerners he probably would not have included Western religious imagery. Presumably because he didnt want to offende anyone?

[@sinoroman]

either japanese architecture or a mix of japanese and gothic

[@toyoashihara6242]

As a Japanese national, I was a bit skeptical before viewing the video, but overall that was an interesting work denoting good knowledge about my country

[@ALEX-fq7hh]

How would you react if faith in christianity suddently rises within your country?

[@_Sloppyham]

@@ALEX-fq7hh they’d probably find it strange

[@michaelman957]

I would imagine Japanese Catholicism becoming a new Eastern Rite (like Byzantine Catholicism). So, still Catholic, but much more local aesthetic. May even start a new category of rites (Western Rites, Eastern Rites, Far Eastern Rites)

[@adamkimara6919]

I think that'd be unlikely. When the Roman Catholics conducted their missions they tended to homogenize their churches. It wasn't until more recently with Vatican II that the Catholics have become more open to liturgical and cultural differences. The Eastern Rite churches really only exist because they rejoined the Catholic communion as already formed churches, not new ones.

[@sinoroman]

Pope would eventually have to decide if Japanese Christianity should be tolerated or not

[@ImTitan16]

I think it could became a different Branch of Christianity. Like Ethiopian Orthodox

[@adamkimara6919]

@@ImTitan16 theoretically, but that is different than pure aesthetic/cultural differences. That would likely mean the Japanese church would have to have an irreconcilable split in theology with the rest of the Catholic church

[@AlexanderCheff]

Be even more confusing when the Orthodox got to Japan. Japan has a rather sizable population of them and they're...certainly unique.

[@warrenlehmkuhleii8472]

Not to mention the fact that when nations accepted the Faith, they ideally had a missionary zeal of their own. So I could imagine Japanese Jesuits spreading the Faith across Asia, regardless of what the government’s foreign policy was.

[@jackyex]

So, maybe the Taiping rebellion would be started by Japanese Catholic missionaries in this time-line?

[@hachiman6585]

this is why christianity is a cancer

[@timothymclean]

That's not impossible, but Japan kinda has a history of syncretism. "Born Shinto, marry Christian, die Buddhist," as they say.

[@the_corvid97]

@@timothymclean To be fair so did the Romans, theoretically Japan would've just needed their own Theodosius to go full send into Christianity.

[@sinoroman]

sounds like piracy to the surrounding countries

[@vicenzostella1390]

Fun fact: Christianity in Japan never really died after the persecution. It evolved into underground sects, where there was always a leader that kept the Church Calendar to continue the practice. Our brothers and sisters even kept statues of the Buddha Mother Kannon as Mary statues (eventually becoming Maria Kannon). They were able to remain devout until 1853 when the US and other nations forced Japan to trade with the rest of the world. This opened the doors to the abolishment of the ban, first in 1858 in Nagasaki (where many cathedrals were built), then followed by an overall abolishment in 1873. Finally, underground Christians were able to come out of hiding and practice without fear. The faith was so strong that Akita received a Marian Apparition in 1973, where one of the nuns received visions from the Virgin Mary to pray for peace, which led to the nun and wooden Mary statue in Covent receiving the stigmata, a very powerful blessing (the wounds of Jesus). The statue also bled from the wound and cried 101 times, some of them even captured on national television. The blood and tears were tested and proven to be of human origin. This was confirmed to have been a real Marian Apparition. It's quite beautiful, actually.

[@rishavkumar1250]

Religious mumbo jumbo is always beautiful to the Ignorant

[@WallNutBreaker524]

I can't read "Sect" without thinking of Murim. 😂

[@manuelsanchezdeinigo3959]

La Conquistadora de Almas Ora Pro Nobis ☦️

[@CedarTree-h9f]

You mean atheists love ignorance*@@rishavkumar1250

[@Eodat]

​@@rishavkumar1250 Neckbeard

[@comixproviderftw_02]

Japan would literally have the power of God and Anime on their side.

[@tripod_boi2056]

Lmao

[@fun_police8011]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

[@andrewtodaro2874]

I doubt anime, as we know it, would even exist in an alternate Christian converted Japan.

[@paisleepunk]

@@andrewtodaro2874 Is this because of the differences in global conflict during the first half of the 20th century in this alternate timeline?

[@dragon_ninja_2186]

*screaming intensifies*

[@displacerkatsidhe]

There's a movie by Martin Scorsese called "Silence" staring Andrew Garfield and Adam Driver. It's about two Portuguese missionaries looking for their mentor in this time period and it really goes into detail in the post rebellion era. Amazing acting, and really just beautifully shot.

[@ErickeTR]

Unfortunately they did that same thing as in Kingdom of Heaven, where they put modern mindset and perspectives in characters from centuries ago.

[@mrpenis6969]

it was an amazing movie i watched it

[@displacerkatsidhe]

​@@ErickeTR No not really. Kingdom of Heaven is a historical hot mess that includes butchering and mixing up historical figures and mindsets. Silence really showed some deep zealotry levels the modern world really doesn't grasp. The way The Japanese shogunate targeted the believers instead of the missionaries was in fact true. And its well documented. As is how the average Japanese farmer's interpretation of Christianity. They took it fairly literal, and the Shogun did see it as a threat to their control over the population, and what the Europeans did to other places around the world, hence the near immediate cut off from the outside world.

[@kairos_fluent]

@@ErickeTR Interesting, I saw Silence as well. Could you give examples of the modern mindset/perspectives in that film ?

[@coleh9241]

It was a pretty good movie

[@mosesracal6758]

Japan-Philippines relations would really be strong in this. Spain had always had interests in Japan even before they fully pacified the Philippine archipelago even having plans to invade Japan once they expelled all Christians. Spanish missionaries based on the Philippines would have influence much stronger than the Portuguese could ever muster as it would have both the geographic and population advantage. Even before Japan shut itself off, many of the local Filipino missionaries trained by the Jesuits had their missions in Japan so much so that both of our saints are missionaries who went to Japan. The Manila Galleon route may have a stop to Japan if thats the case.

[@nidatantan8000]

Yes

[@eroslogan3514]

lorenzo ruiz died in japan also while on a mission

[@xechyugon2887]

Annnnd all of those did happen

[@exudeku]

@@xechyugon2887 we have a saint who got killed in Japan, a blessed(a non-canonized saint) Samurai Daimyo who was exiled to Manila died here, and various shenanigans like Murata Rifles showing up in the Philippines during our Revolution

[@thisasiankidistrashfordram374]

Tbh, I would Never wish what happened to my country(the PH) on Japan or any of our neighbors even if it made ties stronger. The world would be far less beautiful or interesting if Folk religions like that of Shintoism, Animism, Shamanism, Daoism, Buddhism, Islam, Hinduism & other religions, Histories & Cultures were wiped out by European & North American Christian Churches like what happened in the Philippines. Even if people all converted to the same religion & had more similarities, that has NEVER stopped conflicts or wars from breaking out between groups. I mean, the Europeans have mostly been Christians for at least a 1000 years & they Still fought each other endlessly. The reason they even came to the Americas, Asia & Africa was so they could compete over who had the most global colonies & dominance. The issue with Spanish Christianization was their constant drive to wipe out or twist other Populations' past "Idols" to wipe the slate clean & indoctrinate their own religion & heirarchy. A few priests saved the pre-Colonial information but the majority didn't. The Americans are just the British Empire reloaded & they Still fought with other super Christian nations.

[@Fengaroalepoú]

I remember reading a book on this topic "Christ's Samurai" by Jonathan Clements, if your're interested in this topic, I recommend it immensely.

[@orbrat212]

there's an alternate history novel for everything, huh?

[@Fengaroalepoú]

@@orbrat212 this one is not alternate history, it focuses on the shimabara rebellion in extreme detail. From build up, myths that showed up during the rebellion and international intervention in the conflict.

[@orbrat212]

@@Fengaroalepoú ah i see

[@TauGeneration]

@don't be surprised no?

[@patrickpmcbride]

Adding to this, for the Chinese experience of christian rebellion, read God' Chinese Son. The Taiping rebellion was nuts.

[@d.b.2215]

Portuguese influence was actually the exact thing that caused the Latin alphabet to take roots in Vietnam and eventually edge out the Chinese-based writing system. The Catholic population of Vietnam was ballooning as well, and they also had ties to the Philippines, until the monarchy stamped Christianity out and it has stuck at around 10% of the total population since then. So if you want to see an East Asian alternative history to Japan's conflict with the Christian faith, look South East.

[@xXxSkyViperxXx]

we do actually have a few christian japanese filipinos in the philippines...

[@tompatterson1548]

I'm guessing an alphabet of something like Aa /a/ Bb /ᵐb/ > /b/ Cc /k/ Ch ch /t͡ɕ/ Çç /s/ Dd /ⁿd/ > /d/ Dj dj /d͡ʑ/ > /ʑ/ (upon merger, is dropped in favour of ) Ee /e/ Ff /ɸ/ > /h/ (remaining /ɸ/ in loanwords is spelled either or ) Gg /ɰ/ (Portuguese /g/ lenites to something like [ɰ])' Gu gu /ᵑgw/ (gu is used over gü because Late Middle Japanese didn't have /gw/ before front vowels.) Ii /i/, /j/ Jj /ʑ/ (also sometimes used for /ç/ under influence from Spanish) Ll ll /rː/ Mm /m/ Nn /n/ Nh nh /ɲ/ (Introduced later) NG ng /ᵑɡ/ > /g/ ( is used for /Nɰ/ nrr [ɴ] (only at the end of words) Oo /o/ ÓÓ óó /ɔː/ ÔÔ ôô /oː/ Pp /p/ Qu qu /kw/ (likely to become more common because of loanwords) R r /r/ (possibly replaced with at one point) Rr rr /h/ (Introduced later) S s /ⁿz/ > /z/ (replaced with word initially after they merge) T t /t/ TÇ tç /t͡s/ Uu /u/ Xx /ɕ/ Zz /dz/ > /z/ Note: geminate /r/ is spelled sample words: Nifonrr (japan) > Nirronrr Porutongaru (Portugual) キリシタン Cirixitanrr (Christian) > Cilixitianrr ガラナ Guarana (Guarana) プリンシペ purinhxipe サウダージ saudaji トタン totanrr トタン panrr

[@forickgrimaldus8301]

What is it with the Iberian Peninsula and having random people live in there from different places, Portugal has the Successor of the Templars, the Religion of the Assassins and a Japanese Minority that came from an expedition by a Japanese Lord.

[@mistery7893]

Or look to East Timor

[@angquangnguyenthac2833]

Not really sure that it was actually the case as the biggest reason why Latin-Viet was used as a writing system is because it's easier to educate a large swathe of people on how to write than Nom-Viet so the left-wing government in Vietnam after the liberation wars just choose it. Catholic in Vietnam was constantly being overshadowed by folk-Buddhism and it's role on building the Vietnam national identity (which was built as a response towards the repressions by China during their 1000 years rule). So even if they got a better leg to stand on (a less repressive government for example), they would still have to contesting a literal national religion.

[@robertfrank16]

OK, imagine an Assassins Creed game, taking place during the Shimabara rebellion. The Templars would influence the rebels, obviously. The Shogunate would probably be intolerant like in Revelations, and the Assassins would have pretty free reign.

[@undeadzebra6016]

There is an assassins creed game in development right now that takes place in japan

[@TheStarcoMarco]

@@undeadzebra6016 Actually no. The Assassin's Creed Mirage was set to be taking place in the 9th century Baghdad. Yep, we going back to the Islamic Golden Age.

[@daisukidonuts]

@@TheStarcoMarco Assassins Creed Red is gonna be set in Japan though.

[@arx3516]

For me an AC game should take place during the bakumatsu period.

[@WallNutBreaker524]

You have an interesting idea. 😂

[@coolnut99]

The manga "Amakusa 1637" was pretty much about this, involving six time-travel teens going back in time to the titular date to take part in the Shimabara Rebellion.

[@MegaLucky0013]

Added to my list, thanks for the mention

[@folppki2256]

@@MegaLucky0013 silence a movie by Scorsese is much better

[@gregoryanderson832]

I, in fact, was not thinking about crusading samurai... NOW that is literally all I can think about. Please make a video 100/10 would watch

[@feliciaf8]

yeah it would be awesome

[@TheDolphinTuna]

Would have been interesting to hear how a Christian Japan might have impacted the adoption of Christianity in Korea.

[@davidford3115]

Indeed. Considering how big a role Christianity played with the Korean independence movement, it would probably have taken on elements of the Protestant-Catholic divide in Europe, depending on if Japan was Traditional Roman Catholic or if it was declared heretical for incorporating Shinto elements and hence Protestant.

[@thomasblanc3457]

If Japan followed the exact steps. Christianity wouldn't be in Korea anymore. Most Christians would've been banished to Japan or US.

[@nunyabiznes33]

Christianity in Korea would be more Catholic than Protestant

[@warcriminalgaming2359]

@@davidford3115 I doubt they would be considered heretics, one of the main reasons why early Christianity was so successful is that they still to an extent allowed the traditions of different people to coexist with Christianity

[@davidford3115]

@@warcriminalgaming2359 Depends. St. Nicholas, the patron Saint of Klingons was famous for punching out heretics at the council of Nicene. Now I agree that the Coptic Christian Chruch very much resembles the early church by incorporating elements of the ancient Egyptian faith and mysteries, such as the cult of Mother Isis, goddess of childbirth being adopted into practices honoring the Virgin Mary. Something to consider is that for the longest time, the Vatican held Chinese ancestor rites as pagan rituals incompatible with Christian doctrine. For centuries the Holy See has considered it "ancestor worship". It is only a recent development that those practices are view through the lens of "honor thy mother and father", the 5th of the 10 commandments.

[@GreasyBeasty]

I'd love a collaboration between alternate history and kings and generals. Both channels are amazing but I understand you both take widely different approaches to history

[@drangue9017]

One of the biggest reasons why Christians were persecuted was the Dutch. There was even a first Japanese "embassy" in Rome as Christianity grew very quickly. The problem, however, was that the Reformation was currently underway in Europe and it was a thorn in the side of the Protestants that the Catholic Church was growing rapidly in the new world and now also in East Asia, which is why the Dutch got involved and spread propaganda against the Catholics operated with the Japanese. The Portuguese were driven out but Japan retained trade with the Netherlands.

[@intellidunce]

Hey great video! You know, your channel has been so inspirational, you have encouraged me to start my own journey on the internet. Thanks!

[@xuanluu4873]

The world of “I have the power of God and Anime on my side” basically

[@enriqueperezarce5485]

Fun fact: There was a manga I read during my weeb times called Issak where a Japanese solider from the late sengkou/ early edo went to fight in the thirty years war check it out it’s pretty good and realistic (apart from him hitting targets with his musket from more then 100 meters)

[@abhijeetshrestha1502]

was he using a musket? - I was for sure he was using a rifle in that.

[@itcaboi1707]

@@abhijeetshrestha1502 could have been a rifled musket. Issak's musket was specially hand crafted my his master.

[@MotherGapshin12]

I don't see Japanese completely converting to christianity, Japan through history has been very diverse when it comes to faith. The idea of only embracing one religion would be a bit strange and foreign to Japanese. Perhaps Christianity becomes one of the religions in Japan like Shinto and Buddhism, never completely displacing these religions. Perhaps there would be some edicts and laws passed where Christians are allowed to live and exist in Japan but proselytizing and converting would be highly limited or banned. As of 1700s Christianity would still exist in Japan with a small but notable christian minority across Japan.

[@ShuajoX]

Yeah, like the occasional practices of syncretism done by the Kakure/Hidden Christians. I believe there is even a small Shinto shrine in their honor, but I can't remember the name of it.

[@donpollo3154]

I think Christianity would just be a bit more prevalent in Japan, particularly in the southern islands and cities like Nagasaki

[@yahnmahn9035]

Problem with that is that Christianity has historically been very intolerant of other religions. It’s either all Christian, or the Christians will strive to make it all Christian.

[@benvel3392]

I wonder how that society would view the Kami. As angels? Demons? Are Yokai Demons. Very interesting.

[@janevim11]

The thing is - syncretism and Christianity don't go well together. I cannot imagine a universe where a sizeable practicing Christian population exists in Japan and it isn't actively trying to destroy the other faiths present. Buddhism accepts gods or other supernatural beings so Kami are no problem. Shinto accepts Buddha as just another Kami to worship. And Confucianism is more of a philosophy, even the more religion-like Neoconfucianism is more focused on hot takes about the basic structure of the world than to pay attention to dieties. However for Christianity, there is only one God, one holy plan and one worldly structure, so all of the faiths listed above are a no-go.

[@marcello7781]

This video is bringing me back memories of James Clavel's "Shogun". I recommend both the book and the miniseries.

[@PeteTheWargamer]

Huh, maybe I should try this out in Victoria III

[@LuckyTux]

Now this is the kind of content I want on the 4th of July

[@themcadambrothers3184]

@peter who asked

[@EuanFoulis]

The other POD I can see happening is if Oda Nobunaga lived longer- he had a stronger military state and had significant conflicts with the Shinto powers in Japan. He was fairly friendly to Portugal- indeed he was one of the first daimyo’s to use firearms in his armies. Had he become shogun I can see Christianity growing stronger in Japan

[@00Rennah]

Hah! I was about to make a comment to this effect, i do believe if Nobunaga did not die, Japan would be Christian. He was a big reverse weeb and firmly anti-traditionalistic.

[@SeanHiruki]

Nobunaga was a straight up Westaboo. He wore western style armor, drank red wine and converted to Christianity. If the Honnouji Incident didn’t happen he could totally have spread Christianity

[@SeanHiruki]

@@00Rennah yeah same. I’m glad I wasn’t the only one to think of Nobunaga

[@mr.anderson2241]

@@SeanHiruki oda was a Christian?

[@fakeskyler2305]

@@mr.anderson2241 He wasn't a Christian himself, but Nobunaga was a huge weeb for the Portuguese. Everything they did, he wanted to appropriate in some way, turning a lot of western military traditions and technologies that the Portuguese brought with them into an early hybrid Euro-Japanese war machine. I agree that had he not died when he did, and the Oda clan became shogun, he and his successors might be a lot less hostile to the Christians than the Tokugawa were - leading to Christianity taking over the country not through force, but through the slow state-sponsored benign neglect of traditions

[@JimRFF]

Another possible divergence point: had Japan been Christianized in the 16-1700's, it may have been seen as a more viable partner state for European powers, and thus may have been perceived as a more favorable option than the United States of America when Russia was considering whom to sell Alaska to in 1867... interesting possibilities to imagine a Japanese-American conflict in the northern Rocky Mountains as a result of the inevitable Yukon Gold Rush (whenever someone eventually did find gold there)

[@zackposey4939]

Just wanted to say I've been subscribed for along while and you always entertain and inspire not only my imagination but my love history and with the gaining acceptance of our lost history I kinda think the scenarios that have actually played over the millennia are and the alternative history you so aptly describe are more and more likely in one form or another

[@unimportantaccount1095]

What if Brazil remained a monarchy?

[@GlizzyGoblin757]

USA would coup them until they werent

[@Tomboyspleaseheadpatme]

KING BOLSONAROO

[@zyanego3170]

It would be a first world country by now.

[@shafuimcoming5151]

superpower

[@pedrocesarsakihara1853]

Considering what the old republic (lasted untill the start of the 20 century) did, it may have become far more advanced

[@katieneubaum4284]

Kings and generals really is an awesome creator. I appreciate you shouting out one of my favorite creators in your video.

[@StephanusTavilrond]

I'm disappointed that you neglected to mention the fact, that Christianity had existed in Japan even before the Portuguese: Nestorian Christianity, which arrived to Japan even before Buddhism, but quickly died out. It was quite big in China too, before it got banned in the 9th century.

[@Dr.Frasier_Crane]

Boo hoo

[@criram2968]

You said it yourself, it died out quickly, therefore not really worth mentioning.

[@Atabanza]

I need a video of the history of the Nestorians those guys went to the end of the world preaching Jesus

[@maddogbasil]

Yh true The mongols had a sizeable population of nestorian Christian's Of course that ended later when most mongols ended up converting to islam

[@shoelessbandit1581]

There were also a lot of hidden Christians in Nagasaki but that kinda ended when you know, the nuke hit

[@reintaler6355]

Not-much-fun-fact: in 1932, students of the Jesuit Sophia University in Tokyo refused to offer reverence at the (in)famous Yakusuni Shrine due to contradiction with their Catholic Faith. This was one of very few instances of open disobedience in Fascist Japan, and I would love to learn more about local resistance during the war, especially Christian ones.

[@CausticSpace]

Japan wasn't Fascist??

[@kulabster8916]

@@CausticSpace what were they then?

[@CausticSpace]

@@kulabster8916 Constitutional Monarchy, they even had a house of representatives and parliament. The IRAA wasn't even fascist and had no elements of fascism. Simply because they were with the Axis doesn't mean they were fascist.

[@ErickeTR]

@@kulabster8916 Fascism is a system where the people is divided according to their sectors under State maintenance. Japan wasn't anything like this.

[@krunkle5136]

@@kulabster8916 fascism was more of a Europe thing. Japan was just playing the West's game in colonialism and adopted some fascist beliefs. They myth making part of fascism made more sense as Japan was older than Italy or Germany.

[@Rubycon99]

Another reason the shogunate tolerated Christianity was because they were unhappy with the power and influence Buddhist monks had. Interestingly they were reluctant to challenge them directly because they thought they'd be punished in the afterlife if they started killing monks, so they were happy this new religion was eroding their influence without them having to do anything directly. Another interesting thing is that Catholic/Protestant rivalry played a role in Christianity's decline in Japan. William Adams, the "English Samurai" played a notable role in convincing the shogunate that the Jesuits were up to no good. There would eventually be a rather brutal movement against Buddhism too during the Meiji Restoration where it was nearly wiped out in Japan.

[@WallNutBreaker524]

Sheesh.

[@the-dank-gatsby3413]

I love that history of Japan reference in the beginning lmao

[@houseplant1016]

Where

[@EbonySaints]

@@houseplant1016 0:39

[@houseplant1016]

@@EbonySaints Ah that, thanks! Legend!

[@erdrickcapet3945]

One of the reasons the Tokugawa considered Japanese Christians "sus", as it were, is the location. Most of the Christians were centered in the south (west as the Japanese at the time would have referred to it, Kansai, Kyushu, Chugoku areas). The west was were the vast majority of the daimyo who had fought against Tokugawa were also located. So the Tokugawa are already on alert for anything out of the western part of the country that could cause chaos or disrupt their rule, plus it provides an excuse to persecute loads of folks in the part of the country that had not sided with the Tokugawa clan. Particularly lower class folks as well (farmers, etc), which also solves another Tokugawa goal of reinstituting a rigid class structure that had somewhat loosened during the warring states period (peasants could own weapons and fight, possible to rise up to different social classes such as Toyotomi Hideyoshi did, etc. but the Tokugawa wanted to re entrench, as it were, a more rigid class structure where no, you were stuck in the class you were born in because they viewed that as more stable for society). Good video, just wanted to add in my two cents (used to live in Japan and have degrees focusing on East Asian history). In order to assume that the warring states period continues, which is necessary for your logic, you would need Nobunaga not to become such a badass. He's really the one who laid the groundwork for unification, Hideyoshi Toyotomi and later Tokugawa Ieyasu were just taking advantage of Obunaga's successes, since he was the one who had done 90% of the work on unifying the country.

[@WallNutBreaker524]

Knowledge.

[@grifftown]

After finishing my Bachelors of Commerce abroad in Japan in 2018 (omg its been over 6 years 🙃) a phrase I heard multiple times from multiple people was that the average Japanese are born Shinto, married Christian, and die Buddhist. Phrase has stuck with me since then and I'm not sure how accurate it is exactly, as I was only there for my last semester, but I did go see tons of shrines and also wedding advertisements that seemed very Christian in that aspect. I kind of respect the traditional aspects of culture and how they are able to blend such parts of religions peacefully together.. well in the 21st century anyways

[@mynameisntpatrick1476]

I saw the thumb and was like "hey was this from the Kings and Generals channel?" I love the way you guys inspire each other.

[@Yoopsen213]

I like how there’s essentially an unplanned sister video to this. I watched the first vid and it was actually so quality I was impressed. I get wanting and deeply respect having your own vid ideas, but being inspired by that vid is def not a sin I’m offended by

[@arcadiaberger9204]

A Spanish-Japanese-American War sounds interesting. It could even have become the Great War -- *_SOMETHING_* was going to become the Great War, after all, whether it was the Franco-Prussian War or the Russo-Japanese War.

[@lovestarlightgiver2402]

Even in our timeline, during the Meiji period (1868-1912), some Japanese scholars wanted to abolish the Japanese writing system for Nihon-Shiki Romaji, and several texts were published in Romani but it didn't catch on. If Japan became Catholic and saw Latin as the holy language of the church, I think it probably would've caught on. As for different Japanese words that sound the same, accent marks can be used over vowels. Both "chopsticks" and "bridge" are "hashi" in Japanese, but you can just distinguish between the rising or falling pitches of the two words with accent marks (hashí/hashì).

[@krunkle5136]

That would be such a loss. I'm convinced the spread of Christianity has made the world a much more boring place.

[@darken2417]

@@krunkle5136 Having a boring world is only a problem for people well off enough and safe enough to amuse themselves with the problems of other countries. Everyone else especially the most worst off are quite happy to live in a boring world where they don't have to worry about getting decapitated for looking directly at their ruler's face and at least getting treated with a base level of respect for being a fellow human.

[@AureliusLaurentius1099]

@@krunkle5136 The Japanese themselves complained how hard Kanji is and the Edo Period is pretty much the root cause of many of Japan's issues today(the Yakuza for example)

[@krunkle5136]

@@AureliusLaurentius1099 could you explain the latter part? I still see the idea of removing kanji as a bastardizing of the language. It's hard, but with that it necessitated a robust school system to educate kids successfully. I don't see what's bad with 'hard'. It's a space efficient and beautiful script when learned. Maybe something easy to look over in an era when anything can be replaced with an app, everything expedient.

[@darken2417]

@@krunkle5136 A language being hard no matter how pretty it looks just isn't preferable for efficiency. People in this era actually appreciate the aesthetic of things far more than in the past. Practicality was always extremely appealing hence why they were tempted to change their writing system. Ex: There is no way Japan would easily replace its writing system today due to cultural significance but back then it was a real possibility.

[@the1kezia]

I came across work from a Christian Metal group a few years ago named Imari Tones which opened my eyes to how little Christianity is represented in the Japanese population.

[@thefutureisnowoldman7653]

lol Christian mEtal

[@jackyex]

@@thefutureisnowoldman7653 I mean 9f you think about it Christianity is very metal, specially Catholicism and Orthodoxy, eating the meat and drinking the blood of its own God and placing the thing that killed its God everywhere, sometimes with the symbol of the dead God still in the torture object that killed the God. Very Metal.

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@jackyex Many Western Christians hated Metal and considered Satanic with no real evidence.

[@jackyex]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 and many protestants tought that Catholics were Satanic demon polytheistic worshipers, so yeah.

[@l.l.maja.l.l]

@@thefutureisnowoldman7653 I mean, Tony Iommi is a Catholic, and he invented Heavy Metal as we know it.

[@shaddup7106]

😭😭 kings and generals and u are like in the top ten of my favorite history channels its so cute to hear u shout them out 😭😭😭😭

[@RedScorpion92]

The way of the Holy warrior would no doubt have been an interesting read for Europeans 300 years ago. I can only imagine the reverse influence japan might have had on the west if it had interacted with it all that time like maybe a large minority of Japanese Christians living in Europe today.

[@davidford3115]

I have always wondered that too. How would the world be different if Eastern faiths such as Buddhism and Shintoism had made it to Europe in antiquity. Would the Jewish Carpenter from Nazareth have praised Confucius as one of the prophets or judges?

[@RedScorpion92]

Yeah I could certainly see where that could of had an influence which as a more Eastern styled Christianity under say shintoism could have taken god in every rock or animal a bit more literal. At least from by basic understanding of it or perhaps a more pro state Christianity fused with Confuciusism.

[@plaguedoktor3563]

I think Japan would influence East Asia even less because of the Christianity. The conservative ideologies in Ming and Joseon combined with already present anti-Japanese sentiment from the imjin wars would cause Korea and China to push Japan even further away. I could see Japan getting closer with western powers instead and maybe even taking up the mantle of colonization by colonizing Ryuku and Taiwan a century earlier.

[@aceclash]

It would be like Americas. Complete copy paste of Europe.

[@CAP198462]

Interesting idea, if the Otomo clan had spread Catholicism throughout Japan. Seems like no matter what, the Russo-Japanese war was going to happen at some point.

[@doncarlin9081]

Agreed. After all European powers were always at war even when they shared the Same denomination of religion.

[@jonathanwells223]

@@doncarlin9081such is the game of empire

[@timothymclean]

I think it would be more likely, interesting, and complicated if Japan syncretized to Christianity. That is, if their form of Christianity still had enough Shinto in its theology and practices for the Pope to consider them heathens.

[@Hortifox_the_gardener]

Perhaps a new sub sect. But there is historic precedent of the Pope (or the Khalifs) tolerating fringe traditions in far away recently converted regions.

[@US_AFC]

@@Hortifox_the_gardener It’s possible the Japanese Catholics could have become another branch of eastern Catholics like the Indian Catholic Church or byzantines

[@jmasters7515]

Similar to the Taiping rebellion in China

[@mr.anderson2241]

I’m not so sure about this, since clearly most Japanese converts were very zealous in their views and would probably be ardently Catholic, along with the fact the few remaining Christian’s after the suppression kept pretty close to basic Christian doctrines and when the Meiji period came about allowing religious freedom the majority of them returned back to mainstream Catholicism

[@desu8990]

I'd imagine they'd look a lot like the Celtic Christians of the early Middle Ages or Mexicans today: officially in communion with the Roman Catholics today, but keeping many native traditions

[@CloroxBleachCompany]

Even if Christianity in Japan had the same numbers/influence as Shintoism and Buddhism, the Japanese would still practice it for its aestheticism instead of ideology. Most Japanese use religion only for ceremonial/ritual purposes-weddings, funerals, retreats-and not really for guidance to daily life. The liberalization of Japanese society by the post-WWII constitution, which the United States had a significant hand in writing, in many ways dismantled idolization of supreme beings over the common people. Anyone who visits Japan during Christmas time would think the country is Christian for having so many lights and decorations, but it’s just for aesthetics at the end of the day. I’d even go as far as saying aestheticism IS Japan’s dominant “religion” 😆

[@Player-re9mo]

But Christianity is neither Shintoism nor Buddhism. Christianity has a doctrine system which is far more stricter than Shintoism for example. In order to be regarded as a Christian you must agree with it's teachings. It's not enough to just dress like a Christian, but to also believe its theology.

[@jackyex]

Also Christmas has a very different significa in Japan, beign considered a romantic Holiday, (the same thing happened with South Korea), it's because of the import of the very consumerism driven Christmas of the US.

[@desu8990]

They CURRENTLY use religion for mostly ceremonial reasons, which is in response to the nationalization of Shinto in the 20th century. It's unlikely this would be true in an alternate Japan that adopted Christianity 300 years before

[@Player-re9mo]

@@xunqianbaidu6917 The rituals are created by the theology, not the other way around. Christians drink the blood of their God because that's what their theology teaches.

[@Player-re9mo]

@@xunqianbaidu6917 But they do it because it's in the Bible, they wouldn't do it otherwise.

[@JusticeMildenberg]

Kings and generals is one of my favorite channels, so much detail in an easily digestible format

[@jamestaylor3623]

10/10 would recommend the Martin Scorsese movie Silence, it’s about Portuguese missionaries going to Japan during this time period and witnessing what the Shogun was doing to the converts and why he was doing it.

[@AureliusLaurentius1099]

EH the modernist aspects being added was kinda of a turn off(priests doing apostasy is super unlikely historically speaking)like how they added modernist aspects to Troy which end up butchering the Illiad's story

[@brianbarley9711]

You forgot about Daitenku Taro Jurai from the small mountainous village of Shingō in the Aomori Prefecture. He had a brother named Isukiri who was crucified by the Romans around the first week of April in 33 AD in place of Daitenku who them fled back to northern Japan, married a farmer's daughter named Miyuko, fathered three kids, lived a peaceful life farming garlic, and died at the ripe old age of 106.

[@jackkennedy98]

I'd love for you to do an alternate history on cultural movements like "what if modernism happened earlier" or if certain artistic movements never occurred or literary figures (or even works like the oddysey) never existed

[@waltercommunitycollege1615]

I love your videos. You are the one KZbinr that I love to see uploading. Your content is always top tier, please continue. I hope you have a great career in the future.

[@theshycryo]

Finally. The Templar Knight X Samurai crossover I've been looking for.

[@chrismccarver2734]

Fun fact there is a Russian orthodox cathedral in Japan, and it's stood sence the early 1800s I believe

[@belablanck]

Also a possibility in this scenario is that Japanese christianity diverges from catholicism and becomes its own thing due to their distance and lack of direct control by Europeans

[@Player-re9mo]

@Bosnia sucks There was also Eastern Orthodoxy coming from the Russian side.

[@jackyex]

The Phillipines is very close, I don't think it would diverge much.

[@AureliusLaurentius1099]

The Spanish Philippines is just a boat away

[@nunyabiznes33]

I would say trade would keep the influence going. The Philippines and Mexico had the Pacific between them but ended up with similar flavors of Catholicism.

[@tompatterson1548]

@@nunyabiznes33 Both had direct control from Spain. You cannot convince me that Quetzalcoatl wouldn't be turned into an Angel if the Aztec Empire had converted and kept its independence. I mean, they turned Brigid into a Saint, so, yeah.

[@danielcantoreanu]

Here is a different alternate history worth studying: What if Japan had converted to Orthodox Christianity? There have been some missions way before the catholic ones. Also, the first Orthodox mission to succeed was in 1861 which would make for 150 years if that would have succeeded. But if the smaller missions from before the XVth century had succeeded, it would have been even more interesting as there are vast differences from this scenario (most notably the one where Orthodox would not impose a Latin mass language, would have an import of Greek/Russian words in the Japanese vocabulary and so on).

[@wilsonriley1856]

I find this the most plausible scenario as well, as Catholicism's association with the Spanish Empire and fears of it being used to colonize the islands were what helped to spark the persecutions. Whereas Orthodoxy likely would have created the Japanese Orthodox Church had conversions been successful.

[@gabbo7101]

orthodox christianity had pretty much no presence in japan at the time. At this point it would justbe fan fiction

[@tompatterson1548]

OMG, and I'd imagine the Ainu would convert before the Sisam.

[@SuperPaez]

@@wilsonriley1856 I find it by far the most implausible. The only orthodox missionaries that will have enough presence to go to Japan will be Russians in the late 1700s, at which point Japan had a closer relationship with the Dutch (or if we go by this scenario, the Portuguese). Orthodox Christianity would offer no real alliance nor would her missionaries be able to out-influence other factions. The first Orthodox Church was made in Japan in 1891 when Tzaravich Nikolai II was visiting, that's far too little of a presence to be able to realistically change the country's entire demographic.

[@worldcollapse]

Japan would've become protestant way more likely than becoming orthodox lmaoo

[@kryptdude1337]

An amazing interpretation of history I loved this version of our time

[@DieJG]

I wonder if this would have happened. While it is a possibility remember another example of a new religion entering Japan: Chinese Buddhism. It became "accepted" after battles true and the goverment saying that they could adopt it, but at the end the relationship between Shinto and Buddhism is really interesting. Also, seeing you talked about Japan and Spain relationship, did you know that there was a population of japanese people in Spain? They were part of an embassy send by Hasekura Tsunenaga and 6 samurais decided to settle in Spain, and in that place at least 700 inhabitants conserve the surname of "Japón", which is how Japan is called in spanish.

[@TheKalihiMan]

What prevented Christianity from taking hold in the same way that other foreign religions like Buddhism did was how exclusivist and uncompromising it is by nature. Buddhism was initially viewed with similar suspicion, but it eventually found its niche by blending with existing Shinto traditions and adapting to the Japanese worldview. In some interpretations, buddhas and bodhisattvas were seen as foreign kami to be venerated just as the native ones, while others interpreted kami as beings that required guidance toward enlightenment just as any other, and Buddhist priests were known to travel to Shinto shrines to perform their services on behalf of kami. Interestingly a similar syncretism was reported to have taken place during the initial period of Jesuit missionary activity in Japan before it was discouraged as heresy. Francis Xavier initially used the name Dainichi to communicate the Catholic Church’s concept of the Christian God, since it was the closest word to describing a supremely powerful and wise being. However, Dainichi was already the name used for both Vairocana, the dharmakaya (essentially the “true form”) of the Gautama Buddha as well as the Shinto sun goddess Amaterasu. Because the name was already used syncretically to refer to multiple figures, early converts as well as Shinto and Buddhist clergy had assumed Francis Xavier was teaching a new version of Buddhism or similar religion, and that the Christian God he was attempting to preach about was yet another aspect of this existing concept. Once learning of the true nature of the word, however, Francis Xavier quickly dropped it in favor of Deus.

[@MaxwellAerialPhotography]

If any of y’all want to watch a good movie about Christians in the Edo period, I would recommend Silence, directed by Martin Scorsese. Beautiful movie, featuring great performances by Andrew Garfield, Adam Driver and Liam Nesson.

[@CausticSpace]

Also samurai champloo had a few good episodes on that

[@darken2417]

I really liked Silence. Only issue is that Scorsese couldn't help himself in adding modern themes. The Japanese Christians were quite angry over this since of course there is European priest apostacy which just didn't happen in this historical event. He even gives the priest an uncatholic theology toward the end where he adopts an extremely modern form of private practice.

[@theobuniel9643]

@@darken2417 So it's kinda like The Last Temptation of Christ, then.

[@darken2417]

@@theobuniel9643 Not really since that was just completely egregious, malicious and purposefully so. Its more like Scorsese wanted to make an artistic point toward the end but one that undermines the setting he was representing. I still think he gave a good amount of respect to the historical event. And to be fair the only people who would catch this stuff in Silence are historians, theologians, or Japanese Christians. I'm sure most people can watch it and never realize that something is a bit off.

[@TomPlantagenet]

The author of the book I believe was Catholic

[@Datan0de]

The timing here is bizarre. My wife and I started watching the box set of the 1980 miniseries "Shōgun" tonight. When we decided to call it a night and get ready for bed, I pulled up KZbin on my phone and THIS video was suggested.

[@unconscious1076]

What If Japanese or Chinese colonized Americas instead of Europeans ? will be an interesting video

[@elharvey5032]

How about what if East Asia colonized the world while Europe remained Isolated basically the reversal of what happened

[@sinoroman]

difficult WI but definitely interesting scenarios

[@user-pn3im5sm7k]

@@Zeerich-yx9po Exploration, just like Europeans did.

[@LB-py9ig]

I think the key problem is neither country would have even attempted that without *also* dramatically changing the situation at home for both countries. A China that colonizes the Americas for instance, would not have started in the Americas.

[@lerneanlion]

This video begs some questions. For example, does this mean Europe will eventually know how to use chopsticks and ramen might be invented a lot earlier? P.S: Kings and Generals' channel is now being recognized by basically everyone now. So congratulations to the team even if you guys are not here at the moment. But still, the fact that many peoples are now recognizing them is definitely something great!

[@desu8990]

No on both accounts Chopsticks would have no reason to be adopted by the West, as they already had tools that worked much better for their own specific diets. Ramen is also a Chinese invention, and only came to the island in the 1800's with Chinese immigrants.

[@plaguedoktor3563]

Ramen was brought to Japan from China in the 19th century, I don’t know how that would make ramen be invented earlier.

[@lerneanlion]

@@plaguedoktor3563 Okay, this is totally just caught me off guard. Ramen was Chinese invention?! I thought ramen was invented in the aftermath of World War II along with foods such as okonomiyaki!

[@plaguedoktor3563]

@@lerneanlion if it’s instant ramen you’re referring to, then yes it was invented in Japan due to a food shortage after WWII. However, actual ramen was brought over by Chinese immigrants in the 19th century

[@thenorthstarsamurai]

@@plaguedoktor3563 that's why it's written ラメン here in Japan rather than having its own kanji

[@ParasaurolophusEwan]

I want a story where there are multiple realities, and they combine, resulting in every available space in the habitable zone that isn't occupied by a planet being filled by an alternate earth, but only our earth has space travel.

[@BZAKether]

I don't know if it would changed a lot but Japan was more literate than other Nations before opening to the world, this helped them to adapt faster in our time line. A lot of that education was given in school-temples. Would had had been adapted to become church-schools or would it had blocked education without the Shogunate giving suport?

[@SEAZNDragon]

Interestingly Japan had seven Christian prime ministers since the Meiji Restoration. The most recent one, Taro Aso, was PM from 2007-2008.

[@robertgronewold3326]

Modern Christianity is quite unique in Japan, because they often still believe in the Shinto deities, as well as kami and yokai. To them, God is at the top, then Shinto gods, angels/kami, and so on. Rather interesting.

[@SEAZNDragon]

@@robertgronewold3326 I’m not surprised considering there’s something similar in indigenous and African communities in Latin America. Part of me wonders if has to do with how Catholicism has the saints which could interpreted as minor gods in other societies. I also remember during Japan’s isolation period there was an underground Christian community although when missionaries encounter them in the 1800s they found their grasp on Christian theology was somewhat shaky given it was passed down orally.

[@robertgronewold3326]

@@SEAZNDragon You should check out some angel lore. A lot of angels were indeed pagan gods from ancient societies that sort of got absorbed first into Judaism and then into Christianity.

[@Player-re9mo]

There is nothing in the Bible that denies the existence of other supernatural beings. But God is seen as the Supreme Entity which governs over all. Japanese can still believe in the existence of kami and be Christians, as long as they understand that they are to serve the only Supreme God.

[@ZippyzzzReal]

DUDE. This is one of your videos I decided to watch at a later date, and I happen to miss one of the plush sales. I've been a fan of your channel since like 2018 and I have not been able to get a single one of your amazing plushies, since I don't always watch videos the instant they are are released. I know you probably get this a lot, but I am begging you to either rerelease some of the plushies or release new ones for longer amounts of time and not just for a week or two.

[@GlamorousTitanic21]

I love that little Bill Wurtz Jesus moment

[@misterzygarde6431]

I personally wonder what would’ve happened if America annexed Japan, Germany, Italy, or all three after World War 2. Or just the Axis being annexed in general.

[@mapoleo]

@peter lmaoooooo

[@the-letter_s]

not sure why they would, the Philippines proved colonies and other foreign holdings don't work so well for America.

[@FishwicksREAL]

Hey, this is a really dumb idea. 1. Italy switched sides due to civil war, it couldn't have been annexed. 2. Germany was agreed to be split at the Yalta conference. 3. Japan is the only one that could have been annexed, and it technically was. It was a military government So the only one possible did actually happen. If you don't know this, you are very historically inept.

[@that1worldcitizen152]

That would have been hard to do, considering they weren’t strobes in manpower compared to the soviets and even then they were kinda stretched out

[@FishwicksREAL]

@@that1worldcitizen152 it's also impossible because this person doesn't know history enough to realize this scenario doesn't make any sense.

[@jonathanherring2113]

At 9:00 it talks about the possibility of the Latin alphabet being used in japan in this alternate history. I visited some churches in Taiwan and found that in addition to Chinese characters there were also many bibles written using the alphabet, one of the brothers told me about how early missionaries had created a romanized written script for Taiwanese which is in use to this day because at the time their was no written form of the local language in wide usage. (Taiwanese is fairly widely used minority language different from Taiwan's official language of Mandarin Chinese which uses Traditional Chinese characters) This is obviously a very different situation than Japan which already had a strongly established writing system at the time of this alternate history but it was interesting to see roman characters being used for taiwanese.

[@user-qm7jw]

There is another reason for Japan's isolation. According to the memoirs left by Yuko Omura, one of Hideyoshi Toyotomi's vassals many Japanese were taken away by Westerners, mainly Portuguese merchants. They were then sold overseas as slaves. At this time, Europeans were engaged in the slave trade all over the world, and Japan was no exception. It is said more than 50,000 Japanese were taken overseas. Tenshō embassy, who was visiting abroad during this period, testified that he saw Japanese women being forced into sex slavery in South America, Macau and Europe, where they should not have existed. Hideyoshi then ordered Coelho, the head of the Jesuits in Japan at the time, to return the Japanese who had been sold into slavery. Hideyoshi then issued a decree banning the slave trade in Japan. Hideyoshi realised that the Christian invasion of Japan was underway and predicted that if Christianity continued to spread in Japan, Japan would become a Western colony.

[@tacticalplayer6337]

Well i mean in a wired twisted way the u.s. kinda does control Japan in a way, sooo Japan did become a western vassal

[@witnesstochange1801]

Not many likes to this comment. 😅 Too much truth can be uncomfortable.

[@rogueascendant6611]

Thank god that Japan never falls prey to Christianity. While I love and doesn't dislike this religion. The way it was expanded in the past by force is not something I feel comfortable about it at all. God is not at fault here. It's the people spreading this and using it for their own benefits.

[@DEFC0NZER0]

Considering how conservative Japan is with its culture, I'd assume that in the modern day Japan would likely be one of the most christian countries in the world.

[@ThePsycoDolphin]

Similar to this, I wonder if you could ever do a video about what would have happened if the Taipang Rebellion succeeded, and China had a very eastern inflected, sycretic Christiniaty. Sever million people and a emperor/pope considered appointed by God, all with the belief of the cross behind them would have been a very scary prospect indeed.

[@nunyabiznes33]

Not really much a change since unlike the Japanese emperor that is a living god, the Chinese emperor simply have the Mandate of Heaven.

[@Shonendo]

A more interesting topic that I don't believe you have done is, "What if Japan had remained neutral in WW2?" or "What if Japan had been part of the Allies in WW2?" Would be really nice to watch.

[@DehydratedDarkness]

Well, Japan wouldn't have remained neutral, they literally wanted to conquer Asia. In the minimal scenario they go ahead with the original idea and strike at Soviets along with Poland somewhere in early 30s, perhaps quenching their imperialism for a while, Japanese had no common interests with the allies whatsoever, they had colonies that Japan wanted, the Axis didn't. Allies were careful with Soviets Japan was trying to either ensure permanent peace with them or dismantle the Soviet Union

[@Shonendo]

@@DehydratedDarkness I don't know why people have the need to say "it wouldn't happen". The vast majority of videos in this channel wouldn't happen. It's called Alternate History for a reason.

[@DehydratedDarkness]

@@Shonendo Okay, you win. They gain nothing and lose nothing, they probably don't get involved too much The end

[@skem9622]

For this too happen japans empire would have to be recognised by the western powers after ww1 or earlier, as this would have greatly improved relations

[@ThePhrog714]

@@DehydratedDarknesswhy do people like you have to ruin everything

[@SpriteStrumpor]

Video idea: What if Sweden won the great northern war?

[@RavenReach]

I've a more interesting idea. The Romans way back when they discovered Scandinavia thought it was an island instead of a peninsula. So, what if Scandinavia, or Fennoscandia was an island? That would make it like a giant, northern version of Britain.

[@SpriteStrumpor]

@@RavenReach That’s also a good idea

[@warlordofbritannia]

“Win” how? Like, Charles XII is able to destroy Russia? Or a more limited resolution?

[@metalextras]

The awkward thing is, Japanese empress Michiko Shōda is a Catholic and she met the emperor of the sun during his "tennis" outing in a resort which operated by a Protestant church...

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

Here is another interesting Japan-related scenario: What if Japan was split like Korea after WW2?

[@robertgronewold3326]

Very nearly happened. It was part of the reason that America bombed Japan with nuclear weapons. The Russians were planning on invading from the north, so you likely would have wound up with a communist north as a result if it had all been down to land combat. In a way, that was at least one benefit of the atomic atrocity, because it meant that Japan capitulated rapidly, and remained intact.

[@sinoroman]

that would have been great

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@robertgronewold3326 and if Japan was given the 'Korean Treatment' its possible that General Mcarthur's request to use Nukes during the actual Korean War might have happened!

[@warlordofbritannia]

@@jakespacepiratee3740 I don’t think so-if we assume Truman refused to use the atomic bombs in 1945 in this scenario, I can’t see how he’s more likely to do so in 1951/2

[@jakespacepiratee3740]

@@warlordofbritannia Well, because they havent used them yet and they might be in a rush to finish the War hot off of WW2's shoes? General Mcarthur requested use of a Nuke during the latter-half of the Korean war.

[@JimothyLahey]

I think what you said about the adoption of Latin and western language being interesting, as Katakana is an entire alphabet adopted to use loanwords from English and other languages

[@gabrielacosta2267]

As a Christian, if Japan had become Christian instead of killing if off. I feel that WW2 would have never happened. The Japanese form of Eastern racism and imperialism at the time would have never developed because they would have recognized how all human beings are crested in the image of God and therefore have the same worth and value. That mixed with the command of loving your neighbor as yourself and praying and loving your enemies would kind of made it hard to kick things off.

[@thelastdefenderofcamelot5623]

Jesus Christ would've done the same thing as the Japanese. I bet you would still crucify him today if he condemns this stupid expansionist shit.

[@ylondes9927]

Well, World War 2 was largely the German empire anyway. They might 've kept their distance though

[@michaelman957]

Ironically, they might have ended up more religious than a lot of European nations at the time. Also would have either skipped WWII or been on the other side.

[@darken2417]

@LocalShadow No, Japan still probably would have fought Russia. But in this timeline they would just not join the Axis. They'd probably not even end up in conflict with the Americans if they had settled their issues during the Spanish-American War and if the Philippines remains Spanish.

[@AureliusLaurentius1099]

@@darken2417 I doubt the Philippines will remain Spanish since a strong independence movement was already occuring at that time which the Japanese might support if they still took the mantle of "Beacon of Asian Independence"

[@darken2417]

@@AureliusLaurentius1099 The Philippines having had a strong independence movement is actually a myth. Before the Spanish-American war Aguinaldo (Revolutionary) was very unpopular even after independence. The Filipinos fought very loyally for Spain against the Americans, partially due to zealotry against American protestantism. The independence movement only really gained steam after American occupation but even then they didn't exactly fight fiercely for independence, it was all done through American law. Let me put this into perspective. Spanish-American war ended in 1902. Mostly religious insurgency was carried out till like 1913. And independence through a peaceful process only happened in 1934. So under occupation by the Americans who imposed a foreign language onto them and were protestant there was a bit of religious backlash which lasted for a decade before things cooled down then they just waited for two more decades until their proposal for independence was accepted. Now imagine the Philippines remaining under Spain; same language(Spanish used to be majority language), same culture (essentially), and the Philippines as the "Pearl of the Orient" had been receiving enormous investment by Spain for prestige and state of the art infrastructure projects. Look the Philippines just wouldn't have broken away without outside intervention. They couldn't even push out the Americans or the Japanese and wouldn't even be as motivated as they were against them.

[@nunyabiznes33]

@@AureliusLaurentius1099 The Philippines would probably still end up in American hands since nothing in this timeline is gonna prevent the Spanish-American War. It would be probably be an issue between America and Japan. You see your only other Catholic neighbor get invaded by these Protestants, are you gonna be friendly with those invaders? They'd probably not join the Axis later but they'd also likely not going to ally with America.

[@perry6660]

"What if China's warring state period never ended?" would be a great subject to talk about, what would Chinese society revolve around if there hadn't been a stability to enforce Confucius belief?

[@perry6660]

Would there even be a China? I wonder if the hypothetical modern "Chinese" would look to the Zhou dynasty like Europeans do to Rome.. Would the feudal system continue in China? How would these continuing warring states react to outside powers? I really hope someone would make a What If video about it..

[@notengocreatividadparaunno1419]

Which one

[@perry6660]

@@notengocreatividadparaunno1419 The one after Spring and Autumn Period

[@tompatterson1548]

There wouldn't be a China.

[@tompatterson1548]

@@perry6660 I mean, it would be at most a region of Asia.

[@suzerain_k]

Japan as a Christian state, would be a huge push for Christianization of Asia. The religion itself has a very persuasive vibe to the common people. Christian rebellions in China would come earlier, and much more effective than in our current timeline. While the common Japanese would be very religious, I doubt its leaders would be as well. They will most likely engage in wars and alliances with the European powers, and even join the Seven Years War, in which they'll most likely try to conquer the Spanish Philippines as a launchpad to engage in further planned wars against the other colonies and kingdoms in Southeast Asia. They will be updated in the Napoleonic wars, and have European powers seeking Japanese support or neutrality to protect their possessions in the east. Korea, due to the large influence of Christianity of their trade neighbor, will slowly became Christian in their own right. Southeast Asia would most likely be speaking Japanese as their second language, if Japan has managed to take a good chunk of the territories. And lastly, Japanese traditional culture will be very different to what it is now, Edo period of Japan has made its native culture richer when they locked themselves. But with the influence of Christianity and Europe, their culture will be half similar or mostly similar to their western counterparts. Yes, Kimonos and Festivals will be very different as well.

[@mikuso-iw6gj]

Portugese will be their master, japanise culture will replace with christian culture and japan will become portugesee colony and enslave them. When christian rebelion come they burn many shinto shrine and hindu temple coz opposite christian culture its make angry japanise ruler at that time.

[@WallNutBreaker524]

Why do the Philippines keep getting conquered. 😢

[@tsurugi5]

@@WallNutBreaker524because there is no filipino people, the filipino identity is literally formed from being conquered and subjucated

[@CrownedLime747]

I'd think that Japanese Christianity would more or less become its own denomination due to sheer distance much like the Coptic or Ethiopian Orthodox Churches. Maybe it will be a mix of Christianity and Shintoism/Buddhism.

[@davidford3115]

I tend to agree that it would blend Shinto traditions with Catholicism and be something similar to the Coptics who blend the Ancient Egyptian elements with Christian faith.

[@luizmatthew1019]

But that never really happened. Timor-Leste for example converted but never became its own denomination. What would be more likely is that they'd think they are regular Catholics. Say they are regular Catholics. And follow most of the basic doctorine. But like the Catholics of rural Africa and far out places like Timor, they'd mix local traditions and remnants of former religions into Catholicism unknowingly

[@CrownedLime747]

@@luizmatthew1019 That's because Timor Leste was colonized by the Portuguese, so their religion was much more strictly maintain as Catholic as opposed to Japan, which would convert independently of colonial expansion.

[@asurrealistworld4412]

I find the implication of there being much distance from the Coptic and Ethiopian Orthodox churches from the origins of Christianity very strange. It only seems distant to Westerners but in reality those are some of the oldest Christian churches there are in lands where Christianity was adopted much earlier and was far more prominent in than in so many of the European nations at that time that we call the "West" today.

[@davidford3115]

@@asurrealistworld4412 The reason for that is the Vatican. Look at the nominal "first divide" between the Eastern and Western Church. The leaders in Rome through the aged liked to think they have a certain absolutism with regards to what is the "correct" faith.

[@matthewmann8969]

What if Japan colonized New Zealand?

[@siddharthtripathi5806]

We would get to see a crossover involving Naruto's Shadow Clones and Jango Fett's clone army.

[@kilorenato3329]

10:35 ethiopia forgotem on the background be like 😔👍

[@Catperson123]

Jesus could walk on water, babies are 85% water, I can walk on babies I am In prison.

[@conserva-chan2735]

I would love a vid on if the Sino-Soviet split never happened or was patched up in the 70s. It would be so cool to see where you think it would go.

[@warlordofbritannia]

Why the ‘70s? Because that’s when Mao kicked the bucket and China started transitioning into a state capitalism economy? Or in connection to Nixon’s policy of detente?

[@conserva-chan2735]

@@warlordofbritannia it was when brezhnev took charge and was seen more favorably by the CCP leadership. Plus, a change in soviet leadership could be the reason why the two would rapproch due to Kosygin's proposed reforms being the model Xiaoping followed.

[@elduquedeotono8482]

I imagine that the emperor could become something like a hereditary bishop, despite the protests of the pope, and could perhaps claim to be descended from some saint or something similar to the Solomonic dynasty of Ethiopia

[@tompatterson1548]

Saint Amatarasu even!

[@MathMasterism]

Interesting to think about what if the Japan had been become Christain the way ancient Britian and Ireland did, with old traditions sticking around but being recolored to fit the new style. I wonder if any Japanese holidays or heroes and spirits turned saints and angels would have migrated back with the Portuguese to mix into the greater Catholic tradition.

[@FacterinoCommenterino]

Today's fact: You breathe on average about 5 million times a year.

[@that1worldcitizen152]

Time to make a streak

[@theshenpartei]

Cool

[@Exeggutor_Enjoyer]

That’s a lot of oxygen

[@Khorshel]

Tnx

[@REEEPROGRAM]

Thank you

[@joelkurowski7129]

10:47 that depiction of a steamship is absolutely wild. I love it

[@alex_zetsu]

Japan might be relatively slow pushing into Korea, after a long warring period followed by reunification. I suspect any push might be a slower gradual one that might assimilate locals, similar to the Shizumu's domain and Okinawa. Likewise, I think they'd be friends with the Spanish and Portuguese, if things got this far. Gettting to this point is a long shot, but the Roman Imperial Cult was strong in Augustus' time and several generations down the line it wasn't really a thing.

[@lolmeme69_]

I think it would be difficult if not impossible though. Korea had a history of nationalism going back as far as the 900's, almost a millennia before Europe had nationalism. I'm not so sure how receptive Koreans might be of Japanese culture, a nation they saw as backwards and only half-civilized. Plus, remember Joseon was a government, not a collection of tribes. The only way to divide and conquer these types of states is to destabilize them, which Korea during the 1700's was not. Even a slow Japanese push into Korea would be seen as an invasion by the central government, and retribution from the entire nation would be swift. The Joseon Dynasty was also having a second golden age, a renaissance during the 1700's as well, so unlike the sh*tfest of incompetence we see during the 16th and 19th centuries, the response would be pretty quick. Korea is also much larger than Okinawa, and the governmental response combined with a people that would be fiercely opposed to foreign incursions through some kind of proto-nationalism, it wouldn't be an uphill battle, it would be more like an up-sheer-cliff battle. That's another thing Cody gets wrong - if Korea was eventually conquered, I don't think Koreans would migrate north. Migrations are done by tribes, not by central governments of the early modern era. Joseon would stand it's ground and get destroyed as it desperately tried to starve off the assimilation. Again though, the complete destruction of a civilization that is as advanced and centralized as 18th century Korea would be difficult and I'd say it would end in failure.

[@obiwankenobi6871]

The most Based Version of Japan 🇯🇵 ✝️

[@nunyabiznes33]

The Spanish had sword and cross, the Japanese would have God and anime.

[@pyromaniacaloctoling5957]

Video idea: what if the Mechelen Incident didn’t happen and the original Fall Gelb (Case Yellow) and subsequent Dyle Plan went ahead.

[@ParmesanGoblin]

Could you do a video about whether the 1798 rebellion succeeded in Ireland?

[@warlordofbritannia]

I can see this being even worse for Ireland in the long run-Ireland probably replaces Scotland in an Auld Alliance type relationship, which means they’re Cromwell’d by the end of the Napoleonic Wars and Great Britain takes a more actively oppressive hold, rather than the malign neglect that caused the Great Potato Famine to be so devastating. Alternatively, assuming Ireland keeps its independence, the Emerald Isle becomes the European Haiti-an impoverished backwards island state, isolated from other nations due to its violent birth…