What If Lupin NEVER Became A Werewolf? | Harry Potter Film Theory

[@laurenbrinsfield2614]

I don't think the Marauder's map would be made in this case. The make it after they spend all their nights wandering the castle at the full moon, and if Lupin isn't a werewolf, they wouldn't necessarily spend so much time out of bed after hours, wouldn't know as much about the castle, and therefore wouldn't make the map. Which would have a pretty big impact on the story by itself

[@matthewpelletier6900]

I think they got a few things wrong in this video and I did consider the map, but I think it's plausible that the map still gets made. Sure they wouldn't have been running around as animals, but James and Sirius would likely still be the troublemaking sort, and Remus might even encourage them instead of just not stopping them.

[@laurenbrinsfield2614]

@@matthewpelletier6900 yeah I don't know for sure if the map would still be made but I know that them becoming animagi was a big part of why they snuck out so much, and that most of their night time wandering happened at the full moon. Lupin even said that they planned their monthly adventures in advance. I just think it would have been a fun avenue to explore

[@jeffscott5684]

I thought this same thing. I think the map would still be made. James still had the invisibility cloak. The question really is, what would their nicknames have been? If they just used their names, anyone that saw the map(Filch. Weasleys, Snape) would know who created it, so would it have been destroyed? Would Dumbledore have confiscated it? Would Weasleysbhad it all, and thus Harry never got it.....I think there is another "What If" episode here. What if, the marauders map was never made?

[@AspasiaB]

@@jeffscott5684 Maybe the forms we know as their animagus would just be the form their Patronuses take and they based their nicknames off of that.

[@ShirleySenpei]

Agree

[@coolnerdlll6053]

I am absolutely here for these one-off What If episodes. I'm curious about what would happen if Cedric beat Harry to the Triwizard Cup and he was the only one in the graveyard. EDIT: Called it.

[@SgtSupaman]

That seems short. Cedric would have been instantly killed (per usual), but his body never returns, so no one knows what happened to him. Then Voldemort has to come up with a different plan to get Harry's blood and takes longer to return.

[@coolnerdlll6053]

@@SgtSupaman But what would his new plan for returning be? It could go in a bunch of different directions.

[@matthewpelletier6900]

According to the nonsense explanation surrounding Lily's sacrifice, it basically means Harry dies for real. There would likely be a number of minor effects, but that's the major one.

[@SgtSupaman]

@@coolnerdlll6053 , the problem with how many directions it can go from there is that those directions are basically infinite. It would be virtually impossible to speculate what Voldemort's next plan would be because we don't ever see him in that weakened state again after the Tri Wizard Tournament. Even if you just try to theorize what life would be like at school, you wouldn't get very far, because you can't say when, or if, Voldemort succeeds to get Harry's blood. If he gets it quickly, the story gets right back on track and is hardly any different from the books. If he takes another decade, Harry's already graduated from Hogwarts and life is very different by that point. There are too many possibilities to try and narrow anything down to what would probably happen.

[@Mildly_crazy]

I think that one easy peter would bring the key back get out side of Hogwarts apperate to graveyard

[@thorthewolf8801]

If Lupin was just like Sirius or James in this alternative timeline, then he would have surely been on the plan, as not only would Sirius be an obvious secret keeper, but Lupin too! Therefore Sirius would probably tell him the plan, thus he could vouch for him when he kills or fails to capture Peter.

[@100Fleur100]

I was thinking the same thing. Sirius assumed Remus was a spy and him being stuck with undercover werewolf missions probably didnt help that either. With him not being a werewolf there wouldnt be any undercover missions for him to go on, thus making it easier to trust him as he would be able to be around more. Edit to add to my comment, in this world Remus would have also been auror, so why wouldnt they trust him in the first place? Hes literally a man of the law xD.

[@thorthewolf8801]

@@100Fleur100 This is the problem with what if stories. There are so many little details to consider that its almost impossible to do them right. I had the same problem with their other videos too, which is weird because they know Harry Potter better than me, but they still ignore crucial details.

[@100Fleur100]

@@thorthewolf8801 Yea, its why I typically avoid these types of videos but I couldnt help but be curious seeing that Remus is one of my favorite characters. No hate to them, doing videos like this must be extremely difficult, I just get too bothered when little details like that are missed.

[@magica3526]

@@thorthewolf8801 could you name any details they missed in their previous what if series?

[@magica3526]

@@100Fleur100 sirius thought no less of lupin for him being a werewolf. As auror he'd also be on other confidential missions, just other ones. And voldemort had many members of the government on his side. Lupin would be LESS trustworthy in this timeline, not more.

[@matthewpatrick7263]

I think that if Lupin were not a werewolf: (A) He would've visited Sirius in Azkaban to confront him (finding out the truth) and (B) He would've insisted on being part of Harry's life either by raising him or visiting him often (which the Dursleys wouldn't like, but would've had no choice). By the way, even if they still made the Marauder's Map, it wouldn't have had the makers' nicknames on it. I honestly believe that Remus didn't get involved with Harry's young life because he was a werewolf and felt he was dangerous and wouldn't be good for Harry.

[@kekenaniwilson6138]

The only reason he was in the dark at all about who the secret keeper was to begin with was due to him being a werewolf. Sirius not believing Lupin would fight against a better life for his kind. I don't c y Lupin would still b in the dark or not already know Peter was the secret keeper.

[@JuanMataCFC]

if Lupin wasn't a werewolf, i don't think the Marauders would've made the Map at all. the reason they were able to discover all those secret passages is that they roamed around the grounds a lot in their Animagus forms, which they wouldn't have been able to do otherwise.

[@BlueAvocado3]

​@@JuanMataCFCsource? There's nothing on the book that implies that

[@mbronson2466]

He was in the dark because they thought he was the spy. Its stated very clearly in the third book when lupin and sirius confront pettigrew about lily and james deaths. "Wouldn't you have known about the swap" "not if they believed I was the spy, I assume that is why I was not told" - Lupin "Forgive me" - Sirus@@kekenaniwilson6138

[@indiaclear1544]

@@BlueAvocado3Lupin says it in prisoner when he’s explaining to Harry what happened in the shrieking shack. I don’t have the book on me so I can’t find the quote exactly, but it’s something like “then they did something to make my transformations not only bearable, but the best times of my lives. They became animagus. They weren’t able to keep me company as humans, so stayed with me as animals. After a while we started to explore outside the shrieking shack. I doubt any other Hogwarts student ever learnt as much as we did about the hogwarts and hogs Meade. That’s how we came to make the marauders map”

[@WistfulDread]

It’s actually a pretty big change, making all his coworkers personalities different enough they they accepted his decision. A much easier change would be simply to have Fender not overhear Lupin’s opinion. Rather than go out of his way for revenge, he just gets away.

[@lahlybird895]

That's what I'm saying I don't have him not here or have lile not say it

[@FairbrookWingates]

Fully agree. Keep it simple, don't take the more convoluted route that requires unexplained change. It would also simplify the story later, at least in part, because you wouldn't have a void due to Fenrier's death.

[@einflinkeswiesel2695]

It doesn't really make a difference here, since Harry dies before Greyback appears in his story

[@jasoncrownover8947]

Even if you assume everything stays so close to the same, I'm pretty sure this whole story would take a fairly dramatic twist at your depiction of Sirius going after Peter. If he killed Peter, they could just check Peter's wand with Prior Incantato. Peter's body would also literally have a dark mark scar on his arm. Even if he somehow still ended up in Azkaban, there'd be no real reason for Sirius' friends to doubt his version of events.

[@haileym5912]

my huge problem is veritaserum and pensieves--like...why they never look back at memories or use literal truth potion on these people

[@lahlybird895]

@@haileym5912 oh that's because barty Junior was kind of trigger happy and paranoid Also there's only one pencil in existence people can change their memories and there are keys to the truth potion

[@MordechaiHershoffyoutube]

@@haileym5912 Memories can be changed like Slughorn, and they could do a better job at it, as for Veritiserum I think you can by pass it if you are good at occlumency

[@maxwell9211]

I don't think Peter ever got the Mark and if Peter's curse blew up the street, killing 20 passers-by, it's reasonable to assume that it would have also blown up his wand. So I think it's perfectly reasonable to still assume Sirius's guilt

[@lahlybird895]

@@maxwell9211 yeah Peter definitely never had the mark the dark lord definitely did not summon all the death eaters in full book for by touching Peter's mark

[@md.shakifferdous3805]

The only reason Lupin never knew of the secret keeper switch is because both James and Sirius actually started to believe that Lupin might be the spy working for Voldemort (as stated on the third book in the shirking shack). If Lupin was never a werewolf, James and Sirius would probably trust him more - as he is now a confident wizard and not a person who's mostly hiding from the wizarding world due to its bias against werewolves. That means Lupin would probably know that Peter was the secret keeper, and even if Sirius ends up killing Peter Lupin would be able to vouch for him then. And who knows, if the marauders didn't spend most of their time in becoming animagus, they might be the ones to actually solve the chamber of secrets case. That would mean Harry and Ron would never have to go into the forest to clear Hagrid's name to begin with. It's amazing to think how a small and personal experience such as a werewolf bite could have changed so much of the story.

[@skourpi142]

It’s the butterfly effect man. Because such a small thing happened it changed so much.

[@kiminimuchu__]

Er... I'm suprised you didn't mention Lockhart. If Harry and Ron don't crash onto the Whomping Willow, Ron's wand doesn't break, which means Lockhart's spell would not backfire, and Harry and Ron would have actually lost their memories in the Chamber. That's a massive change you didn't even notice...

[@matthewpelletier6900]

They might not crash into the willow, but they still probably crash. This might be the movies interfering with my memory, but I'm pretty sure something goes wrong with the car which causes them to lose control and crash; the willow is just the thing they happened to hit.

[@kiminimuchu__]

@@matthewpelletier6900 It's possible, but they should have at least acknowledged how it happens, otherwise it looks like they just missed it, and it's kind of a big deal... Yeah, in the movie it shows the wand breaking when he was repeatedly hitting it on the car wheel telling the car to stop, but in the book it breaks the moment they crash on the willow.

[@magica3526]

they definitely still would have crashed the car and broke the wand - they're not trained pilots

[@magica3526]

@@meganmisura1858 watch the video. He effectively ddisowned lupin

[@lahlybird895]

They didn't know Snape either I'm crazy thank you for Facebook might be a tiny bit different if he doesn't have a license to dream

[@_monomoon]

Personally, I think there would be a much bigger change very early in the story - if you factor in the psychological distress being a werewolf would have on Lupin growing up. Having no friends and being an outcast, this would affect his personality in a big way, and having his father working in such a dangerous field, he might grow up to be much more confident and maybe even kind of snobbish, similar to James. If I remember correctly, it was Lupin who considered/insisted on adding Pettigrew to the friend group, as he was a lonely outcast, and Lupin resonated with that. So, if he grew up without the said challenges, he might have behaved either entirely differently towards Pettigrew, or be indifferent towards him, similar like the Golden Trio was towards Neville in the beginning. Peter, however, not being like Neville at all, would then not grow in the Marauder's respect, and he'd stay a side character at best, in their story. And Pettigrew not being friends with James and Lilly in the first place, changes the story from the ground up.

[@edopronk1303]

Wow. That are indeed big changes. And I agree with them. This influences far more than we think.

[@katholmes7112]

If Lupin hadn't been bitten, Sirius wouldn't have pressured the Potters into making Peter the secret keeper. Lupton was kept out of the loop and considered untrustworthy for being a werewolf. But, Lupin also might not have sided with Sirius, James and Peter in school either, instead doing his job as a prefect and reporting their bullying. He wouldn't have been desperate for friends like he was in the books.

[@mbronson2466]

Thats not true. He was not considered untrustworthy because he was a werewolf he was considered untrustworthy because for a year before the potters deaths someone in the order was passing secrets to the death eaters. James, and Sirus thought it was Lupin because no one suspected Peter because he was so weak they didn't think he would be useful to them. Because of how smart Lupin was they assumed he would be the most useful to the death eaters and would have been sought out by them to join.

[@lucypreece7581]

Loving these What If videos. I am all for re-writing existing stories and looking at alternate perspectives and endings and stuff

[@kellysouter4381]

How do you like the idea of time turning Snape's death, polyjuicing a Death Eater to die in his place and vanishing off to the Middle East somewhere? Surely Snape had a friend somewhere?

[@lucypreece7581]

@@kellysouter4381 i need motive, context, practicilities.

[@rocker9793]

Lupin might have gotten sorted into a different house if he wasn't a werewolf because his personality could have developed differently

[@kekenaniwilson6138]

I don't c it🤷🏾‍♀️ if Lupin was going to b in Ravenclaw it would hav been the case in the OG story. He is still him. The hat reads u, not ur experiences

[@kekenaniwilson6138]

Could argue the same that assault victims in general don't change personalities tho thy may still change after the assault.

[@johnballard7775]

@@kekenaniwilson6138yeah or soldiers with ptsd, i dont think general paranoia and anxiety would necessarily push you towards any specific house. but i guess it might depend on how you cope with it, which would be dependent on who you already were before the ptsd so i dont think it would change your house.

[@Machtyn]

But wouldn't Sirius get off from killing Peter, because Peter - a dark wizard - was not being a willing captured suspect. Sirius would not ever have been in Azkaban. What he likely would have been was one of Dumbledore's operatives keeping an eye and ear to wind for any whisper of Voldemort coming back. Instead of Hagrid picking up Harry, it would have been Sirius. And Hagrid would have been able to pick up the Sorceror's Stone unencumbered.

[@sebastiankraus7284]

My thoughts exactly!

[@thatonepossum5766]

I think the idea there is that nobody was there to see what really happened. Since there were no witnesses, no one could prove that Sirius didn’t just murder 14 people.

[@Cailus3542]

Murder is still murder. During the wars (and ONLY the wars, with rare exceptions), Aurors were the only people with the legal authority to kill. Nobody else could, not even Dumbledore and the Order of the Phoenix. Remember: use of Avada Kevadra on another human is an automatic life sentence. Sirius might get leniency, perhaps a commuted sentence or imprisonment somewhere other than Azkhaban, but he's still a murderer. If you're curious: Harry didn't technically kill Voldemort, so he gets off scot-free. Harry cast to disarm only, even if he knew exactly what would happen and fully intended to kill Voldemort with his spell.

[@ramblingrynamight5164]

And also as we learn in the 4th book they can examine the wand and see what spells it last casted clearing Sirius of the muggle murders leaving peter as the only option

[@Morgyborgyblob]

It's still pretty much the same as the main story, the only difference is that Peter really is dead this time. Everyone still thinks that Sirius was the Secret Keeper who betrayed the Potters, and then killed 12 Muggles when confronted by Peter.

[@giraffes86]

I'm actually curious on if he would get the chance to kill Peter due to the fact that we know that the aurors quickly appeared right after Peter scammed off if Peter stayed alive long enough for him and serious to battle I wonder if the aurors would have arrived

[@honeybadgertheshield8157]

I’m eagerly awaiting the What if Neville was the chosen one video(s). I can only imagine what would have happened and would love to hear Ben and J’s take on it.

[@yourfavoritenothing3.0]

Neville the boy who lived….with his grandma

[@nigelwoolsey155]

yasss me to

[@andromeda7758]

I need a whole 7 part series

[@joelgustavsson5971]

That's probably very hard know it basically changes the whole story

[@honeybadgertheshield8157]

@@joelgustavsson5971 I’d say it’s only a little more difficult than if Harry was in Slytherin myself but either way I trust the brothers would come up with a fascinating storyline.

[@thomasyoung5323]

A what-if I would like to see a series made is "What if Hermione was killed by the troll in Philosopher's Stone?" It is plausible and it makes you think how would Harry and Ron get on without Hermione especially in year with no crookshanks to go after scabbers.

[@leventebardossy5962]

They wouldn't have lived that long. Without Hermione, they would have died at year one, by the Devil's Snare. But, even if they paid more attention on Herbology, and Harry could somehow get through Snape's potion puzzle, they would have died. Without Hermione, they would have never known what monster is in the Chamber of Secrets. Harry wouldn't have known not to look at his enemy. Eye contact with the Basilisk, and that's it.

[@olirothers]

@@leventebardossy5962 dont forget the potion obstacle that comes before the mirror in year one

[@anandsankar4179]

he will die in his first quidditch match . quirrel would have jinxed him off even if snape was muttering a counter curse

[@jtyler9130]

No Snape would have 100% have beaten Quirell. Dumbledore would also have known Harry was going into the trap door. If Harry failed test 1, Dumbledore would have saved them but realised Harry does not have the knowledge or friend group to support him and directed Harry towards those that could teach him

[@edopronk1303]

The SCB argued that the Devil's snare was supposed to be Neville's obstacle, Dumbledore calculating that Neville might come as well. In a no Hermione timeline he might have? But this would be a How it could have ended with a lot of dead ends possible.

[@b0kkeee]

I don't think they would find Sirius in the explosion, laughing like crazy but very sad and able to explain himself.

[@littlefoot5013]

I'm actually mystified as to why Sirius was laughing in that situation at all in the original timeline.

[@sweep_swoop]

@@littlefoot5013 Iirc, Peter cast a spell on him to make him do that

[@littlebluewolfie]

I was hit by a car once and in the ambulance I started laughing and crying because I imagined how dumb I looked flying away from that car hood. Shock does weird things to the brain

[@thedragonwarrior5861]

@@littlefoot5013 I thought it was because he had had an extreme emotional upheaval and was glad to have avenged his friends

[@MordechaiHershoffyoutube]

@@littlefoot5013 I'm pretty sure he was laughing because the situation was so bad that he had nothing else to do it's his type of personality, and he was just bested by Peter twice and knew he had no chance out, and Peter was the one that no one thought about, where as in this timeline he would have bested Peter and been able to get himself a hearing.

[@theeniebean]

I suspect Sirius wouldn't have gone to Azkaban in the first place, which might change way more stuff, but otherwise good theorycrafting!

[@T101G]

Because there’s no whomping willow Ron’s wand never gets broken. When Lockhart attempts to erase Harry and Rons memories, it works

[@coolnerdlll6053]

I was wondering about that.

[@kiminimuchu__]

Yep, my mind immediately went to that. Surprised they didn't even try to come up with an excuse for this one...

[@SRVaris]

They still crash they probably just hit the ground(causing them to be a bit more battered) instead of a tree

[@ESparkAster]

@@kiminimuchu__ This theory presents the theory that they die before this when aragog and the other spiders eat ron and harry.

[@jorgecarbajal8076]

0:40-0:42 Regarding the “also famously… not in the prisoner movie” note, Harry’s Patronus does appear as a stag when the Dementors are attacking him and Sirius. 3:29 & 8:40 Nice touch here.

[@GavinKey]

I actually think it goes back further than the night after the Potters death. Peter was the secret keeper because they thought Sirius was too obvious. The reason it wasn’t Remus is because he was down pretty bad, not being able to find a job and everything, and they figured of all of them he might be most likely to turn to the dark. If he was never a werewolf to begin with he probably wouldn’t be so depressed/suspicious, and would most likely be the secret keeper. So I’d actually go as far as saying that the Potters wouldn’t have been killed if Remus was never a werewolf.

[@celestecarson8335]

We need more of these “what if’s” they are amazing!!! Also, am I the only one waiting for more Kingkiller Chronicle videos?? I literally started the series because of this channel and have been dying to see more videos😭

[@sarahkridenoff3293]

Me, too!

[@smokeyninja9920]

6:48 I'm not sure Sirius would go to Azkaban. The Ministy would be able to track the explosion back to Peter's wand, since he wouldn't escape in this storyline. Also, With Peter dead, everybody who knew the potters secret would become secret keepers So the story would be that Sirius sought Peter out for betraying the Potters and getting them killed, Peter blew up a bunch of people trying to escape, Sirius killed Peter while trying to stop him causing more death and mayhem. So, what I'm saying is, Sirius would've raised Harry.

[@bsv103]

If Sirius raised Harry the blood protection that's the whole reason he's at the Dursley's wouldn't be in effect. Maybe he visits Harry, or vice versa, but he wouldn't raise him.

[@MordechaiHershoffyoutube]

Dumbledore wouldn't let Sirius raise him, and being part of the order Sirius would listen to him.

[@And-lj5gb]

This has potentially huge implications. For a start, I don't think the Maraurders' map ever gets created without Peter's ability to sneak into places in his rat form. But with Lupin's childhood experience being completely different, who's to say he even becomes best friends with James and Sirius? And who knows, maybe it's the more confident and sociable version of Remus who actually ends up dating Lily instead of James in this timeline? One thing I'm certain of, the divergence from the original story would've been bigger than you described and frankly speaking, impossible to predict.

[@SabsWhyTho]

and much more entertaining. There's no good reason to edge so close to canon other than not wanting to make the effort. It didn't happen like this in canon so why try and align so closely.

[@haileym5912]

I feel like he would still be friends with them because they'd be three roommates that are all from wizarding families and their parents are all well known or respected in some way or form, and they're the brightest students in their year (along with others like Lily obviously, but James and Sirius were considered to be incredibly smart and Lupin was, from all thats been implied, may have had less raw talent but was smarter than them and worked harder). They probably would've still been friends regardless of Lupin being quiet and more sheltered vs more open and outgoing. Peter would be the same really, just following them around because they're the cooler ones. I imagine he would've idolized the son of a big auror as much as James and Sirius

[@lahlybird895]

I agree about the map but I definitely don't think you'd be the one doing due to the fact that James was one lesson after her since the very beginning What's not far away characters and what we know about them in Canon just because of certain point elementary is different

[@lahlybird895]

@@SabsWhyTho is that kind of the whole point of a what is theory The change of have to make sense if it's not affected then it shouldn't change the Canon still exist the theory is just to see what would happen if this one aspect changed It's not about not wanting to put in the effort it's about trying to make sure the story still work without getting drastic relays that don't need to be there If anything trying to make it line up this morning as much as possible is more effort due to offer little tiny things that can change it's a lot easier to just say well we change this one thing so now everything can be different who cares it's a lot harder to follow every individual change track it and make sure you know what you're doing

[@SabsWhyTho]

No a what if theory is to follow WHAT happens IF something changes, which they did, sure, but they also did it in easy mode.

[@maryann4451]

These "what if" videos are so good! It's clear you think them through really well

[@sophiaromanow622]

This Marauders stan is very much here for this video!!

[@azure_lioness3370]

I love this! I think another thing to consider here is that Harry might be closer to Lupin than he is to Sirius in this timeline, as he wouldn’t have had the experience first-hand of finding out that Sirius did not cause the death of his parents (does he even find this out in this timeline? Would Lupin tell him?), and therefore might not even meet him until Book 5. Lupin and Harry’s relationship has always been one of my favorites, and I think it would be fun to see him take on the confidante role that Sirius takes in Book 4, him being the one to provide Harry with advice for the Triwizard Tournament, etc. That might even change how Harry goes about the Tasks. Of course, Harry and Sirius’ personalities just mesh really well, and Sirius still sees a lot of James in him, so it’s possible that their relationship develops during Book 5-just maybe not to the same degree or in the same way as in the original timeline. Would Sirius still die in the Department of Mysteries in this timeline? Would it be Lupin instead? Also, I’m not really sure about Lupin surviving the Battle of Hogwarts. If he’s not a werewolf, he doesn’t throw himself quite as hard into his work for the Order trying to avoid Tonks, and he doesn’t have the episode where he tries to leave her when she tells him she’s pregnant, which might mean he’s not as sharp on his DA skills as he is in the original timeline-but I’m not entirely convinced.

[@lahlybird895]

Harry would have overheard the conversation according to the video so he would know but I also agree that he probably wouldn't meet until book 5 But with the two of them on the run together if possible they both become that character for heroes The confidant like later Then they meet in book 5 or even in before if they're hiding in the mountain caves like in the original timeline Although there might still be dementorseverywhere

[@carmencastillo8110]

that moment with harry and ron dying made me laugh soo hard🤣🤣 keep up the good work

[@ozyssah]

The more I think about the marauders the more I wish we had a series of hogwarts during their time there

[@AbstractlyDelen]

I think we need- What if Snape and Lily got together What happened if Lupin and Lily got together What happened if Neville had been the Chosen one (a full series for that one probably!)

[@mabibarros]

You forgot just one piece of information: the Marauders Map doesn’t show the “Junior” part of Barty Crouch’s name - that’s exactly what tricks Harry in Goblet of Fire

[@anvos658]

I honestly feel like this one could change far more than you think. Remus having a different childhood could very well end up switching enough social dynamics at Hogwarts, from him having a different personality that the outcomes are different. Peter very likely does end up the odd man out and drifts away from the other three, rather than feeling like the group loser, so probably isn't there to be secret keeper. Remus not having his own internal trauma from being isolated and having a dark secret, likely leads to far less conflict between him and Snape or at least Remus not being as into it, and if Snape isn't bullied as hard were in a Snape potentially finds the courage to reject the other Slytherin kid's wizard racism, which puts us in one of those time lines James and Lilly ending up together isn't a given. . Even if you assume the childhood goes the same there would be far more evidence, while guilty of murdering him Peter was a servant of the Dark Lord and Remus likely would have known about the Secret Keeper. Honestly he may have even been the alternative to Sirius, since being an auror he would be the natural pick to have the resolve to die before betraying Lilly and James, though I see this one ending with an institutionalized Remus, whose crippled from Peter using the crucio curse on him, but in timeline irony Peter ends up killed by Sirius. Even if we some how get to the same death of Voldermort, James, and Lilly, Auror Remus would naturally be the one to assign to protect the Dursley's, which likely gets us to another Harry is exposed to magic far sooner scenario.

[@AlexAnderson-kb6pc]

Absolutely here for these analytical, fanfiction-esq episodes, they provide so much more context for the overall plot

[@IslarfPokemon]

But what if the weasley's don't win the lottery? Sirius never sees Peter in the newspaper and doesn't try to leave Azkaban. So much doesn't happen.

[@otaca1317]

He already wouldn't see him, there, would he? If he wasn't an animagus, he would never take the role of Scabbers

[@IslarfPokemon]

@@otaca1317 Sirius seeing Scabbers in the newspaper is how he found out he was still alive

[@kristinmartin2899]

Interesting because without Sirius after him peter wouldn’t of run to help Voldemort maybe. It depends on how scared of lupin he was.

[@IslarfPokemon]

@@kristinmartin2899 would have to see if lupin would recognize him. Because I doubt krookshanks would care about the rat if it never met sirius

[@ESparkAster]

@@IslarfPokemon But this what if assumes that lupin never was a werewolf which doesnt promt the marauders to become animagi so scabbers wouldnt be their pet anyway

[@ARedJoker]

I think snape definitely should have been brought up more, he was angry that he almost died by one of James’ pranks and was suspicious of them because they knew lupins secret and were helping him out the entire time. Which we know Snape was on their tail constantly. That never happens in this story, and that final little bit of resentment never gets to be applied to lupin and Sirius and with Lupin not desperate for friends, he actually stands up for snape and tells both James and Sirius off for their behavior. Which in turn gives Lily the chance to talk to James more and maybe they get together sooner or maybe that’s enough to bring lily and Snape together. Still worth investigating. I felt like Snape was robbed.

[@shaun3457]

My question is would Peter still become the secret keeper? Sirius suggested the last minute change because they knew someone was feeding information to Voldemort and they thought it might be Lupin due to the bad rep werewolf's get and that most of them were siding with Voldemort. So if Lupin never became a werewolf I reckon Sirius would have recommended Lupin to James and Lily

[@Jadzia1387]

I have actualy been wondering for decades I think as to why James hadn’t been their own secret keeper - they do it in the 7th book when Bill is the one for Shell Cottage and Arthur for the Burrow

[@dovasvariakojis6934]

These episodes are always so much fun! I did have one fantasy that I always wanted to see develop but never had the chance to: What if Voldemort never went after Harry or Neville to prevent the prophecy?

[@lahlybird895]

Interesting, how would that work exactly

[@robinacosta8815]

When Voldemort went to the potters and sent his followers to the longbottoms he triggered the prophecy and caused the series to happen, if he didn’t than harry and Neville would have normal lives and Voldemort would be immortal and make his seventh horcrux griffindors sword

[@MordechaiHershoffyoutube]

@@robinacosta8815 He didn't send his followers to the Longbottom's, they went after Frank when Voldemort fell, because they thought he knew where Voldemort was.

[@shinobi6497]

It’s kind of plausible for Lupin to be the secret keep, given the fact that the three of them would be equals as kids.

[@hi-five4960]

I love these "What If?" videos, they're such a fun way to re-entice fun into Harry Potter theories!

[@ethexreql]

PLEASE make more what if videos that ben narrates 🙏🏼

[@annapurnamehra898]

I love this theory. My favourite thing about this is it takes out the problem with time turners. They never introduced them and the story goes pretty smoothly. Also, Lupin and Sirius are on the run together which means Sirius didn't spend his last years alone.

[@MordechaiHershoffyoutube]

You know we could solve the time turners problem anyway, simply make Harry save Buckbeak after they leave for that minute they had then after the ministry members left have Sirius tackle Ron and Wormtail, then have that go down, and have Harry simply succeed at the Patronus later that evening but still faint from exhuastin, then have Harry and Hermione with a little more time go down to the Forrest pick up Buckbeack and fly up to Sirius

[@ESparkAster]

@@MordechaiHershoffyoutube Would have made things so much smoother, you know what I always wondered, why didnt they ever use veritaserum on Sirius or smth, would have made things so much easier for the orer and the ministry.

[@tiffanysingletary7984]

I feel like the Mauraders Map couldn't exist, because they made it with the knowledge they had from exploring the school as Anamagi.

[@thefusingcookie]

There should be a what-if Sirius, James, Lily, Pettigrew and Lupin survived. This could also translate to what-if Neville was the chosen one, since it is likely Pettigrew never gave away his friends in that version. It'd be fun to see Harry with his parents, and just be a normal wizard kid for once.

[@Melodic076]

If James and Lily had survived then there wouldn't be a story. Lily wouldn't have sacrificed herself so Harry would've died.

[@thefusingcookie]

@@Melodic076 That's sort of the point-And there would still be a story. Neville would likely be the chosen one, and Harry would be the bystander.

[@MaddieFLevine]

@@thefusingcookie but, Lilly’s sacrifice only enacted the love magic because she was given the chance to live (“step aside!”) because Snape begged Voldy to do so. I have no doubt Alice would sacrifice herself for Neville, but she wouldn’t have been given the option to live because Snape wasn’t in love with her.

[@thefusingcookie]

@@MaddieFLevine The magic is more or less a plot point for the Dursleys and for Voldemort not to kill Harry. Dumbledore would be much more protective of the chosen one if said charm didn't apply, leaving the main character more or less alive.

[@thefusingcookie]

@@Melodic076Snape asked Voldemort for the protection of Lily and the Potters, and they would likely remain safe at Snape's request if Voldemort went after Neville. I don't see him actively giving up Snape and killing possible allies.

[@Percy_PotterEdits21]

Remus is one of my fave characters :)

[@rensvg888]

You forgot something: the reason Lupin has the map in the first place is because Harry took it looking for Peter. He then got caught by Snape, by which Lupin shows up and confiscates the map. If Harry never sees Peter on the map and doesn't go out during the night to look for him, Lupin will never get the map.

[@KyuSpectrum]

0:29 my favorite book

[@karenvattiat93]

I love these “what if vids”!! I think if Lupin wasn’t a wearwolf he actually would have been sorted into Ravenclaw. I feel like he would not have valued bravery the way he does in the normal timeline.

[@Zamzamthegreat]

This is a great idea and will be an amazing series!! May I propose "What if Dobby wasn't there?" Not merely what if he didn't exist, because the answer to that is "The Malfoys buy a different elf". But instead: What if there was no heroic Elf to solidify barriers, explode puddings, get emancipated, catalyze S.P.E.W., etc.

[@rockk3y413]

Love y’all so much! Keep up the outstandingly great work!

[@idminister]

Real question: why didnt the wizards just use an item like the pensive to extract Sirius's memories and see if he was telling the truth by watching them. Also if remus is alive and not a werewolf, then he would either raise Harry or constantly visit him regardless of any dursley protests.

[@Mourne.]

I don't think Barty Jr would have had a moment of hesitation. Wormtail was just interested in surviving. I don't think he was wholly evil, but Barty Jr definitely was.

[@BamaG33]

There wouldn’t be a marauders map tho because the reason they were able to make the map was because they went around in their animagus forms

[@jasminesolo-granger5940]

I love these videos so much! I filled out the survey and I would be sooo excited to see some Wings Of Fire content. Like is Sky, Peril's Lost Twin? What if the Dragonets never escaped? I love the series soooo much and I'm sure I'm not the only fan.

[@lahlybird895]

Hold up are they considering doing wings of fire contact now

[@dwinters6291]

Feels like you rushed through years 4-7. I would love to know more of what could've been in those years.

[@lahlybird895]

Just wolfstar chilling in the background whileee the plot happens 😼

[@FS71625]

I was hooked on this. I love the What If scenarios. Keep them coming guys!

[@jacobswenson8607]

In this situation, couldn’t Lupin appeal to Dumbledore on Sirius’ behalf (in addition to his own status as Auror)? Dumbledore has still has sway within the Ministry at this point…

[@steventaylor4798]

Lupin could easily get Sirius an interview and get truth done that way . He can free him better then to show ministry somehow

[@TheStinkyGhost69]

Here's one for another long form what if Siri's what if Draco was sorted into Gryffindor

[@coolnerdlll6053]

I second, third and fourth this.

[@mightworth3735]

One thing I would love to add is the fact James saved Snape from Lupin in their school years which is the only reason why Snape felt compelled to cast a counterspell during Harry's Quidditch match in the first book. That could have ended deadly, as well

[@MordechaiHershoffyoutube]

That's not true, he did it not for James, he did it for Lily, to protect her boy like he promised Dumbledore, and Dumbledore just had to say that so as not to reveal Snape.

[@biancadawson4302]

Could y'all do a video explaining patronuses in depth

[@somethinunameit637]

Omg you got me. I legitimately was shook that the video ended after year too before the rest of the video played

[@l393ndjean]

Haven't watched yet but holy moly this is going to change soooooooooooo much!

[@LoonyTonks]

So if they aren’t animagus, they can’t make the map which helped Harry a lot, quite important plot

[@matilda4833]

You absolutely had me with the fake-out 😂 Love these "what if" videos - keep it up!

[@caileanm2009]

Lupin being a wearwolf actually has a bigger impact than you would expect But that just proves that messing with time will always result in unknown ways

[@NorinnRichard]

So a thought. We know Sirius thought Lupin was the spy for Voldemort. That is why he didn't tell Lupin he switched places with Peter. Would he have suspected Lupin if no bite happened? I don't think so. Which means Lupin might well have been secret keeper instead of Peter, and things go even more differently.

[@magica3526]

sirius didn't think less of lupin for his lycanthropy. He didn't trust anyone fully but himself

[@JahanMisra]

do the books mention that he mistrusted lupin because so many werewolves were siding with voldemort? i can’t tell if i’m misremembering

[@rasmuspetersen7181]

Exactly my thoughts

[@LonerOnTheField]

Im pretty sure you got the part about sirius being in azkaban wrong. He thought he had killed peter up untill just before he escaped. He only attempted to escape because he recognised peter in the picture of rons family and understood that he was alive. Sirius was content being in azkaban because he knew he did the right thing. If anything knowing you were wrongfully imprisoned would be more detrimental to your mind. Not to mention in this scenario if he had actually managed to kill peter there would likely be a body left and they would probably do a more detailed investigation on the matter, leading to sirius probably not being imprisoned his whole life.

[@Percy_PotterEdits21]

I feel like because of this, (Remus being an auror) he would be able to survive being attacked by a death eater in the Battle Of Hogwarts, also, Sirius might be there, cause Bella is in Azkaban and can't kill him so he would help.

[@ellsebells1]

Bellatrix was in Azkaban anyway... She just got out

[@Percy_PotterEdits21]

@@ellsebells1 didn't know that, haven't read in a few years so I must've forgot.

[@ellsebells1]

Hey no problem haha

[@jessicastar433]

I wasn’t watching the screen and you really got me there with thinking it was over half way through! My heart jumped lol

[@slurpeekyler]

I love these what if episodes so much!

[@GBunnyG]

I've started trying to anticipate what quote could replace "Hey brother." The anticipation of what it could (or could not) be is killer.

[@FrenchToastin_]

We need more Harry Potter What If’s! They’re amazing!

[@The8BitNerd]

14:37 If the Marauders didn’t learn how to become animaji, then shouldn’t they have not been able to wander around the castle enough to have the knowledge to create the map in the first place?

[@SRVaris]

They could just use James cloak instead it might just take longer

[@Stepbrohelp]

For a long time you guys have been sponsored by better help and I just want to point out that in case you aren’t aware they have been under some controversy for a little while now.

[@imbluedubbadee]

I'm starting to wonder if they're in some sort of lock in contract. I've commented similar things a few times to no response, as I think others have too, and they also have another sponsor on this video so why would they need betterhelp too? Probably just giving the benefit of the doubt there but still seems weird

[@orangeinkius7257]

you should do "what if Snape was sorted into Gryffindor" because besides the conception of Voldemort that seems to be where all the plot conflict in the story leads back to to me. Snape gets sorted into Slytherin, gets in with the wrong crowd, loses his crush and only friend, becomes a death eater, overhears the prophecy for Voldemort, becomes Dumbledore's second most important piece on the board (besides litterally the chosen one), and Voldemort kills the potters causing the entire plot of the series

[@MaatsScale]

Question: How do the others ride thestrals if they can't see them? Also how does Nagini keep up the polyjuice potion intake in Godrick's Hollow? Unrelated to this vid but this is the place for these questions so cheers Potter Heads

[@leventebardossy5962]

They can ride the Thestrals even if they can't see them. It's like a blind person sitting down on a chair. Just because they can't see it, it's still there. With the Thestrals, it would just feel much more sick. For Nagini, she wasn't transformed through potion, so she didn't need to keep up anything. Probably it was a transfiguration spell from Voldemort, with a conditional command to return her into her original form when she finally met Harry.

[@MaatsScale]

@@leventebardossy5962 Yeah but don't you have to know how to step up on it and where to put your leg and where to hold on and how to guide it? Unless Harry and Luna used magic to place them on the thestrals then everything else was just blind faith ...I didn't know that they could skin walk without the potion...animals into objects with the wand but not people...then again this is Voldemort so he probably did some kind of blood magic after the murder...Thank you for your response :) ...it's given me somethings to think about for sure

[@leventebardossy5962]

@@MaatsScale It was blind faith. Harry and Luna helped everyone to get a grab of it. In Nagini's case, my guess is, the corpse of Bathilda was used. It was conservated by Voldemort so it wouldn't rot off of Nagini, and turned into a vessel for her. As a Horcrux, she knew how to control it as it came from Voldemort's mind. Then the spell had a trigger to cancel. My guess is, it cancelled upon the alarm Nagini sent to Voldemort.

[@herculesismymiddlename7919]

Ive always wondered why Lupin needed to take the train in the first place, couldn't he just apparate to hogsmeade and then walk to the school?

[@naomi_falk]

Ok next: what if Voldemort had a nose

[@hollynixon9570]

If there was no whomping willow, would Ron’s wand have been broken? Because that would change a lot of things too like lockhart’s memory charm not backfiring and Ron not getting a new wand that is more loyal to him.

[@sarahglover3286]

Sorry? If Lupin wasn't a werewolf Sirius would have killed Peter? Do you mean they'd never have suspected Lupin so he'd have been the keeper not Pettigrew or something else?

[@SgtSupaman]

Sirius always knew Peter was the keeper, because it was his idea. That part doesn't change.

[@Blixthand]

Well, Since Sirius was the one who convinced James to use Peter as the secret keeper instead of himself it would have been obvious who to go after, just as in the real story, but even if he couldn't have turned into a rat I don't think Peter would have let himself be found so easy if he didn't think he could get out of the situation, preferably framing Sirius like in the original.

[@sarahkridenoff3293]

I love these "what if" videos. I want to see "what if Snape didn't leave his potions book behind?" Also, I love the amazing appearing dragon during the ad read. It's cool to see the new art on the walls.

[@andynd99]

You really got me when you said the story ends after Aragog attacked them in Chamber of Secrets. I love these What If...? episodes and I love the channel!

[@mr.moonthegoon4178]

I really love your Hey Brother intros... My own brother is not a very good person, so it feels nice to have two cool brothers out there somewhere

[@maiamaola6143]

Albus Percival Wulfirc Brian Dumbledore perfectly encapsulates all 4 Hogwarts Houses: Gryffindor: He is brave, noble, chivalric and self-sacrificing for the entire wizarding world, even planning his own death at the hands of an ally. He is also fiercely determined to protect Harry at every chance and ensure that he can accomplish his quest even after his (Dumbledore's) death. And, he has the sword of Gryffindor from the Sorting Hat and may even be related ot the famous wizard himself. Ravenclaw: Dumbledore is seen as invariably eccentric even amongst other wizards, thanks to his nonconformist views (pro-Muggle borns) and strange habits (penchant for Muggle sweets, socks and knitting patterns). His rare phoenix Patronus (and keeping Fawkes as a pet) also symbolizes his inability to hide his "secret self". He's also smart enough to clue in Harry and his friends and allow them the chance to gain the information themselves rather than just tell them directly, as he knows it's a more effective teaching method. He also has high emotional intelligence and empathy for marginalized wizards like Lupin, choosing to see them as people before any other condition. Slytherin: As a young man, Dumbledore is praised for his natural gifts and talents and indeed lusts after the Deathly Hallows in a quest of ambition. But he also keeps secrets in an effort to preserve either his image or a loved one's view of him: he never told anyone about Arianna or Aberforth. He also never seeks a position of government for authority like Minister for Magic; choosing instead to pursue the headmaster position at Hogwarts. Later in life, he is still resourceful and cunning in retrieving the Horcruxes and collecting different memories from Voldemtor's past. Like a true Slythern, Dumbledore is using all of this for a greater purpose: defeating the Dark Lord through Harry. Hufflepuff: He is loyal to a fault; he trusts Hagrid with his life, and he also implicitly trusts Snape, the ultimate triple agent. He also declares he will have only ever left the school when none there are loyal to him. He is also comitted to justice, making sure an innocent Buckbeak is saved and the students know the truth of Voldemort's return so they are ready to face it. He's also patient, waiting until the right moment to tell Harry the truth of the night Voldemort tried to murder him. Dumbledore also ensures Hogwarts is a school for everyone, saying "help will always be given at Hogwarts for those who ask for it/deserve it." Even his name puts the houses together: Albus means white: Hufflepuff's colors are black and white. White also means puirty and the innocence he is always trying to protect. Percival was the name of a brave warrior of the Round Table. - Gryffindor Wulfric means "half wolf" and "ric" (rich, powerful) - Slytherin Brian means noble - Ravenclaw, who came from nobility and was often proud and aloof Dumbledore: a bee buzzing about the school The old, white haired, protective, brave, powerful noble wizard always wanted the 4 houses to exist united beause their traits already worked so well together within himself.

[@georgelloydgonzalez]

Wait, but doesn't the Marauders Maps not distinguish between Barty Crouch Sr & Jr? I seem to remember that the map displays both men as "Bartemius Crouch", which is why Harry was suspect about Mr. Crouch, and none-the-wiser about the Death Eater

[@markbrown2640]

At 7:36 if Sirius killed Peter, the aurors would have Peters wand and one of them would be Lupin. Sirius would tell Lupin the real story. Priori Incantetum (apparently the only reliable forensic capability that they have) would confirm that Peter blew up the street. Why would he do that unless he was a dark wizard? If they had any way of testing for a Dark Mark, they did not use it effectively, otherwise Lucius Malfoy, Mac Psychopath the beast killer and others would not have been at large in 1991. Sirius would get a trial and Dumbledore would judge it.

[@FutureRailProductions]

I'm sorry but I don't think that Remus would break Sirius out. One because you have to keep in mind with Remus not being a werewolf and an auror, on top of capturing Barty Crouch Jr Bellatrix Lestrange and everyone else makes him pretty respectable in the eyes the Wizarding World despite him being a half blood. So with that in mind I'm sure he could use Veritaserum to prove to everyone that Sirius was innocent, aside from murdering Peter but I'm sure Remus could convince the court that it was a temporary moment of insanity and could get him out.

[@dr.adamrego5795]

How does the map exist if they never became Animagus?

[@RJnottheraccoon]

The fake ending totally got me 😂😂😂 I was laughing out loud thinking that the video was actually over!

[@Cat_Woods]

I appreciate how cleverly you maintain "fate" in the universe. That's still just self-fulfilling, though. Personally, I think if Wormtail weren't an animagus, Voldemort wouldn''t come back to power, at least not then. The prophecy was mistaken. I also think Sirius would have been given a trial, and he would have had a chance to convince at least Lupin and Dumbledore that he was not guilty of blowing up Muggles, only of killing the person who betrayed the Potters. I think it would have gone differently than in the books, can't really know exactly how, of course.

[@lewismcintyre7639]

Great idea and a proper interesting concept, but if the marauders don’t become animagi then would the map have been made as they discover a lot of the secrets of the castle while in animal form??

[@lizreeves5913]

I love you making Sirius voice at 11:57 Peter! Peter what is the secret keeper! Peter! Peter!

[@autumnleaf2263]

These are very fun fanfictions. Point that was missed though is Crouch Sn wouldn't have told anyone Barty was talking in his sleep or that he was even missing because he would have to admit to breaking his son out of Azkaban and using an unforgivable on him. He would have been sent to Azkaban himself. So he either says nothing about Barty being missing like in cannon, which is most likely, and therefore no dementors at Hogwarts or he would be in Azkaban for admitting his crimes. Either way, he is then not involved in the Tri-wizard tournament and cannot be used to put Harry in against his will. Plus he was the main proponent of the Tournament being brought back to try to revive his political career after his son being a Death Eater ruin his push for Minister of Magic. So the Tournament likely wouldn't even happen. So that one detail of Mr. Crouch not telling others Barty is missing, just like in cannon, means no Dementors and no Tri-wizard Tournament.

[@thegamedevcave]

sweet video but... and i'm not sure how long it's been there but do I see a FIRE BENDING katara in the background?! that's kind of awesome not gonna lie

[@AssemblyWizard]

14:47 But we know the Marauders map only shows "Barty Crouch" without the suffix, according to Goblet of Fire

[@carlrood4457]

After just watching the intro, I see the issue that we don't know how their animagus forms helped during the first Wizarding War. We know they managed to keep it secret from most, but they probably made use of them at some point. James' stag form probably wasn't all that useful, but a dog or rat could have tremendous use in spying and the like.

[@magica3526]

wizards can turn themselves invisible pretty easily. And if dumbledore didn't know that they were animagii then the fact couldn't have been particularly impactful

[@little-wytch]

I see one potential flaw in this theory as you've presented it. Perhaps I'm remembering the books wrong, but wasn't Remus being a werewolf and thus thought to possibly be the spy in the Order the only reason that he wasn't told about the change in Secret Keeper? I can see Remus not being made secret keeper for the same reason as Sirius tho, he'd be too out in the open and potentially captured in a fight. I also thought that Sirius was only trying to capture Peter and thus would only kill him in self defence, but I could be wrong about that too.

[@davidburris2420]

If the marauders aren't animagi, are they even marauders? They'd have no need to make the map if Lupin isn't a werewolf. And even if they did still make the map, what names would be on it. No animagi, no nicknames.

[@SabsWhyTho]

Not gonna deny the validity of most takes but I don't think the fact Sirius is "actually" guilty will actually affect him cause it's more about "guilt" than legal guilt, and I think Sirius only regrets the fact he didn't get his point out better, much the same as in the original universe. Though I'm sure not being able to change form does indeed cause him significantly more problems. The problem with videos like this is they rarely diverge from canon because then it'd just be a good fanfiction, but it'd also be more entertaining then inching along the same plot as always with the most minor of changes to keep along the same path.

[@javanknox8360]

Would there even been a Marauder's Map? Didn't they create it in part because they could explore the castle as animals?

[@noahnas1587]

9:06 Ben giving off some V-sauce vibes here