What If Rome Industrialized? | Alternate History

[@MonsieurDean]

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[@ottovonjizzmark9864]

Was this video a whatifalthist response?

[@MonsieurDean]

Nah, it's just a remake.

[@jonathanjdv4327]

Hi

[@incrediblemr.e8765]

Awesome flag design. And we can see that you love Rome very very much. Again thank you for all the videos that you do. They're always well made.

[@ottovonjizzmark9864]

@@MonsieurDean oh... That makes more sense.

[@antfruit]

This seems like a good setting for a fiction novel, especially with the Roman Steam tanks without guns.

[@CMAzeriah]

Oh hell yeah

[@masonwilder]

Novels based on the concept exist

[@kristiankepley5944]

I can see the steam tank being like the Warhammer fantasy version.

[@rogermon3s141]

Corrosive76 I’m picturing a kind of battery ram that can spew men into a breach- a Steel Vomenterium if you will

[@IONATVS]

I believe the basic setting concept/aesthetic is called “sandalpunk” and has been used in the occasional novel, tho admittedly not as many as it probably deserves.

[@Grymbaldknight]

I've heard it said that the Greeks were akin to theoretical scientists, whereas the Romans were more like engineers. This is why the Greeks are hailed as the "intellectuals" - philosophers, astronomers, inventors - whereas the Romans were "builders" - architects, legislators, and mechanics. There was overlap, of course, but Greek and Roman "thinkers" were two sides of the same coin.

[@carso1500]

Yeah, theres a reason why they are both the creators of modern society, greece gave us great scientifical advancements that have lead the scientific revolution we are enjoying today while the romans created many of the governing and infrastructural systems that are still on use

[@xlvrstl]

hmm... i dont know if thats true, the greeks buildet some exeptional stuff aswell, colos of rhodos or the temple of zeus for example. and given the fact romans knew greek legislation before there was a rome, as the south of italy was settlet mostly by greeks at the time, id say they are not two sides of the same coin, they are the same side of one coin with three to sevenhundret years inbetween. as in, not overlap, but continuation. thought the greeks got much of their advancements from the minoans, who probably didnt lived in a bubble either, given their large trade network, so even if both of them made great advancement in all fields you called, none of them is the sole inventor of any of them, or civilisation as a whole.

[@snowfrosty1]

Hence Greco-Roman

[@christiandauz3742]

Imagine the Ancient Sumerians jumpstarting the Industrial Revolution Colonizing the stars and inventing immortality by 2600 BCE!

[@sadiqahmed4143]

So in somewhere else Rome+ Greece Equals Industrial revolution

[@rokball4892]

Next Roman Series: 1. What if the Roman discover gunpowder(Remake) 2. What if the Roman Empire war with Han Dynasty?

[@MajesticSkywhale]

What if the Romans ALLY with Han?

[@williamm1014]

The Nova renaissance jup

[@J4R0D]

What if Rome DIDN'T invent Bacon?!

[@pierresihite8854]

@@MajesticSkywhale Oh god thats a power move right there

[@TheNivek95]

3. What if the Roman Empire used steamships to discover (and settel) the America’s?

[@afrikayt]

then there would be a different saying: "all trains lead to rome"

[@WhittyWhitts]

All planes lead to Rome

[@yeeyee5057]

@MitchTheYoshi oh noes

[@vitaurea]

All Universes lead to Rome

[@NguyenMinh-vs1vm]

IMPERIUM OF MAN!!!

[@gamingchamp6728]

And eventually Rome just becomes an SCP

[@ahel4523]

Ah that Monte Python meme just got funnier. "What have the Romans ever done for us?" "Everything." "Aside from that what have they done for us recently?"

[@ecafssot]

🤚 _Brought peace..._ ❓

[@briishperson5166]

The aqueduct?

[@Deridus]

Public health?

[@falah6398]

Education?

[@12halo3]

@@ecafssot oh fuck no

[@Electru522]

I'd say that if the Romans somehow industrialized, we would easily be a space faring civilization right now. We've had just over 100 years of industrialization, and the world doesn't look like anything it did back during the turn of the 20th century. Think of what we would achieve with 20 times that amount of time.

[@AleXcsGaming]

yes 1500 years worth of industrialization would mean that right now we would probably do missions on solar energy harvesting in near-sun orbits by deconstructing mercury and energy distribution trough giant lasers along solar system collectors combined with galactic colonies with greater-lightspeed ships and neural implants that make us semi cyborgs. that is only if things go wrong and romans continue inovating , which i doubt because of their slave system. they would probably only innovate on how to enslave more people to put them in the factory rather than make them automated. something like 18th and 19th century england with their 0.1 pound wage ahaha. but their greatest invention would be 100% the telegraph , allowing instant communication with provinces would create centralization unwitnessed before and that would allow them to advance and conquer other nations by organization. the machinegun would come next for the chinese war haha

[@FilosSofo]

Just maybe. Because real, fundamental progress has been stalling for about 40 years now. And the philosophical underpinnings of that progress has been completely eroded. The same thing may happen several times in a bigger timeframe.

[@stanislavdaganov574]

You wouldn't speak in the English language, as a matter of fact, if this was even hypothetically possible. Most of almost 200 countries and culture in the world wouldn't exist. There would be a global Latin language Roman civilization, of militaristic citizen-soldiers. Think twice, before opting for that.

[@ninjastomp1]

@@stanislavdaganov574 You put that very well.😂😂😂😂

[@AleXcsGaming]

@@stanislavdaganov574 i already speak a latin based language and i don't see a problem >_

[@ynk1611]

Next up: What if Rome set up a self-sufficient moon colony?

[@GavTatu]

ROMANS ON MARS !!!!

[@fatalshore5068]

@@GavTatu In a sense that can still happen. I am sure one day a citizen of Rome will go to Mars.

[@persimmon93]

@@GavTatu Romans on Uranus.

[@_caracalla_]

Imperium Galacticus Romanus

[@_caracalla_]

Roman Soviet Socialist Miner Union fhahdhahahadhafg sdfgpsadkfasdfpaskjsapgkjsadga

[@Volvith]

Rome: **industrializes** Barbarian Tribes: "Why do i hear boss music?"

[@jimboonie9885]

Guerrilla warfare is a bitch

[@mondaysinsanity8193]

@@jimboonie9885 romans were actually uniquely effective at fighting guerrillas by using basically the same tactics we've discovered over the last few decades. By developing and building up the region, training locals, installing vassals, focusing on civilians and security, using field fortifications etc.

[@Swan_River_Cowboy]

@@mondaysinsanity8193 laughs in Roman chainsaw that screams at you in Latin.

[@UnholyWrath3277]

@@mondaysinsanity8193 they would also put populations to death lol. If the most troublesome tribes cease to exist it sends a powerful message to the others but that was also a lot of earlier rome tho

[@al-oq7ob]

They need the invention of gunpowder for guerilla warfare to be more effective

[@andrewstrongman305]

The British Empire begs to differ; had the Romans industrialised 1,000 years ago and pioneered steam-power and firearms, etc, they might have become the first global superpower. Even a simple telegraph system would have negated the need to split the empire into East and West.

[@worldcomicsreview354]

You don't really even need telegraphs. Beacons existed for hundreds of years, but could only mean one thing. There are, though, semaphore and other "within sight" means of transmitting coded messages that the Romans (or anyone, really, since the invention of complex language and writing) could have invented. I once saw a model of a system of huts with huge shutters on top, which can be either open or closed. You could space these out like beacons and send a morse-like code over great distances quite easily. You'd need to have people stationed in them round the clock, though.

[@illdeletethismusic]

the british empire worked for as long as its colonies were largely independent trade partners, built by businesses and homesteaders for their own advantage, once britain tried to make it an empire politically, taking control over the lives of people within the colonies and demanding taxes beyond what was accepted it started to crumble. whether the roman system, essentially having every province as a temporary monarchy handed out as a political favour, would have lasted longer than an attempt at one central state remains to be seen

[@andrewstrongman305]

@@worldcomicsreview354 Terry Pratchett introduced such a system in his Discworld. A telegraph would still be key, though as the signals can travel great distances as fast as they can be tapped out, and without suffering from conditions of poor visibility.

[@mattmammone2338]

And to think in reality my family came from the same city as Archimedes. It would be awesome to have him as an ancestor. But from DNA testing, my DNA largely originated from Scandinavia, so my ancestors were Nordic conquerors. Heck I could have had an ancestor who just liked her some Thor hammer lol.

[@mrmanceres7653]

A steam powered Rail system would keep the empire together alone, As it would allow faster troop movement and make a more cohesive empire instead of distance provinces. Add in a long distance communication system and Rome would Control all of Europe and may never splinter.

[@Kronos098]

"What If Rome Industrialized?" THE IMPERIUM OF MAN INTENSIFIES

[@marsar1775]

By the Emperor!

[@trevormceuen6216]

THE EMPEROR PROTECTS

[@alphariusfuze8089]

*The Emperor Protects!*

[@Butter_Warrior99]

FOR THE EMPEROR

[@deeznutz3712]

BY THE EMPEROR!

[@Flynn01979]

They were so close to industrialization. They had the basic concept of a steam engine. It's unfortunate the technology wasn't developed further. The Romans just weren't able to see the potential of the technology. But, that was in large part due to their society being so reliant on slaves.

[@christiandauz3742]

I had this idea for a Time travel story A Gene-Enhanced Cyborg Teenager from 2070 AD ends up in 2600 BC Ancient Sumeria! The Sumerian cities do fight each other so Industrialization is more appealing to them Futuristic Cyborg unites Sumeria and the rest of the world and brings it to the Modern Age!

[@johnhall7215]

@@christiandauz3742 wtf

[@funtimefredboi3877]

@@christiandauz3742 very unlikely

[@christiandauz3742]

@@funtimefredboi3877 The Sumerians were divided into various competing cities like the Ancient Greeks. Plenty of incentive to accept and utilize new knowledge and technology to give an edge over other Sumerians and the nearby Hindus Valley and Ancient Egyptians The Ancient Sumerians relied on crappy Bronze weapons and armor. If one Sumeriam city had access to make better iron or steel equipment in greater numbers it would have a huge militaty and economic advantages They also believe in divine right to rule so either killing city-kings or forcing them to submit is a huge thing for the population. Easy to unify Sumerians to form the FIRST EMPIRE! Advanced Sumerian Empire then assimilates the Ancient Egyptians, Indus Valley India and all of the tribal and steppe nomad peoples in a few decades! Ancient Sumerians live forever and colonize space!

[@kw4584]

Romans had one opportunity. They had one job!

[@bruxstrux6437]

I firmly believe that 40k is essentially what would've happened had rome gotten to our tech era on their own.

[@jasminelove4180]

I want a big Rome does everything video, where we take a potential timeline where we follow Rome throughout its history, even if it isn't completely realistic I would enjoy watching it.

[@tuckermeachem5195]

Yes that would be enjoyable

[@Rothope]

team-up with alternate history hub

[@deadchannelwithbadopinonsi9077]

Rome takes over the omniverse

[@jasminelove4180]

@@e.m.p.3394 I was thinking a mega episode, just from start to finish, everything goes good for Rome.

[@nerobernardino88]

@@jasminelove4180 Map of the galaxy, 2020: *R O M E*

[@TheLukas135]

Imagine steamengines were invented in an intact roman empire in 500AD. The solar System would be fully colonized now.

[@mikicerise6250]

Imagine Ancient Egypt industrialized. Solar system would be fully colonized by 500AD. ;)

[@Crassus_Auratus]

@@mikicerise6250 or maybe just post apocalyptic.

[@mikicerise6250]

@@Crassus_Auratus Maybe. Although Bronze Age Collapse and the Middle Ages were pretty apocalyptic. :p

[@Crassus_Auratus]

@@mikicerise6250 yea, I meant it by causing climate change, would be found a solution? And what if we run out of fresh water or something like?

[@caniblmolstr4503]

Guys no need to get excited. Yes the Steam engine was discovered by the Romans. But they hadn't found out stainless steel. So trains are out. And to discover stainless steel Rome would have to found out how the Wootz steel (also called Damascus steel) was made. They would have found out that it requires a special type of coal not there in Europe. Anyways Until the Romans could have found out a reliable way of making a foundry that could produce stainless sell in vast quantities trains are out

[@jamesmoran7391]

Love how dovahhatty is in this video a more unbiased roman there has never been.

[@FakeSchrodingersCat]

The main problem with Rome that prevented it from achieving an industrial revolution was the disconnect between the classes as well as those between urban and rural. You have to look at the Roman class structure and the pattern of industrialization. It is easy to fall into the trap of looking back and connecting the pieces of knowledge but books were expensive, and the rich had servants who had underlings who were still self important enough to delegate the running of the estates. It is all well that combining the principles in Heron's Pneumatica with his Mechanica and Baroulcus gives you almost all of the knowledge necessary to build a engine and pump almost equivalent to Watt's, but each of those books were extremely hard to find and cost more then what an artisan who could use that knowledge earns in his lifetime, while the majority of those who did have a copy viewed them as pure status symbols and never read them. Things like the flour mill mentioned in the video was probably the work of someone in the senatorial class with mechanisms as a hobby, they probably did it just to see if they could, but it would never even occur to them to spread the knowledge outside of their class circle who for the most part didn't care any more then the average person of today cares about a 1000 square foot model train diorama.

[@Voo504Doo]

they did its called the vatican with pope and black pope as the emperor who pretty much controls the world today .Rome splintered and the church took over. Nowadays, all world policies through the UN, bilderberg, commitee of 300, club of rome, etc ALL are influenced by the Vatican and royal ancient bloodlines some of who are related to the popes and ancient emperors of Rome. If your interested research Black Nobility (Venecian Oligarch), Bavarian Illuminati by Adam Weishaupt and also the Spanish Illuminati called the Alhambra i believe. They are all blood related as is EVERY royal in most countries. Rome never fell, they rebranded. Also, NAZIS never lost the war, they rebranded as well. Still all alive and kicking today... wake up peeps, Rome is not ancient history. Did you know Washington DC was originally named ROME???? Did you know we still use the symbol of fascism, the Fasci in our senate hall etc? This Fascist symbol comes from Rome. Most of United States is inspired by Rome, because we were set up by the Same families, and co opted over time.

[@thewildcardperson]

@@Voo504Doo lol none of that is true

[@Voo504Doo]

@@thewildcardperson Ignorance is bliss.

[@Voo504Doo]

@@thewildcardperson Wish i believed Rockefeller's history books too life would be easier.HISTORY = HIS STORY. His= Victor of war. Keep believing what the demons tell you is real and you will continue living a blissfully blind life. Everything can be checked by taking a small amount of research time. Since you dont want to engage in real discourse I wont enlighten you, learn on your own sheep. BAAA

[@mrgiskard]

@@Voo504Doo Delusion even more so

[@thescotsman2071]

What? an unbiased crossover episode?! A surprise to be sure but a welcome one, Hail Dovahhatty

[@reinforced9084]

fuck scotland

[@anamoose1724]

@@reinforced9084 mate chill the fuck out

[@yeahyeah8434]

@@reinforced9084 id like to see you try

[@thescotsman2071]

@@reinforced9084 can I ask why?

[@the-letter_s]

@@thescotsman2071 mayhaps its a reference to the picture painted of the highlands by dovahhatty

[@toddlithgow]

The level of industrialisation you mention almost certainly wouldn’t have happened without coal, using wood would require the use of so much land that the population would have to shrink (although this would still be a plausible outcome). So in needing coal (if we imagine that the Romans discovered it’s use), they would likely have put a lot more effort into romanising or at least controlling Britannia, and the Ruhr valley and Saar basin, which would’ve been on the edge of the empire, so would require a heavy military presence. If anything I think the need for such coal would force the Romans to go further into Germania to secure the coal fields.

[@Voo504Doo]

they did its called the vatican with pope and black pope as the emperor who pretty much controls the world today .Rome splintered and the church took over. Nowadays, all world policies through the UN, bilderberg, commitee of 300, club of rome, etc ALL are influenced by the Vatican and royal ancient bloodlines some of who are related to the popes and ancient emperors of Rome. If your interested research Black Nobility (Venecian Oligarch), Bavarian Illuminati by Adam Weishaupt and also the Spanish Illuminati called the Alhambra i believe. They are all blood related as is EVERY royal in most countries. Rome never fell, they rebranded. Also, NAZIS never lost the war, they rebranded as well. Still all alive and kicking today... wake up peeps, Rome is not ancient history. Did you know Washington DC was originally named ROME???? Did you know we still use the symbol of fascism, the Fasci in our senate hall etc? This Fascist symbol comes from Rome. Most of United States is inspired by Rome, because we were set up by the Same families, and co opted over time.

[@itcaboi1707]

@@Voo504Doo what the hell are on about? Like, genuine question cause this is nuts, man

[@keltongillanders5736]

@@itcaboi1707 I'm gonna be honest, I know exactly what hes talking about and I have to look into the last half of what he said because that's where it gets crazy to me is basically from nazis never lost the war onward. But up to that point, I would call it more of a theory of what's going on in the world behind the scenes, but that being said if you go down the rabbit hole and look into what hes talking about on your own time, i think you'll find it is plausible.

[@itcaboi1707]

@@keltongillanders5736 I think I'm going to find it insane if I do that

[@Voo504Doo]

@@itcaboi1707 You must be a child and never explored alternative history other than what your rockefeller history books teach you

[@chevster9772]

I kinda geeked out when I heard Dovah's voice.

[@user-es5gx2di7h]

The British Museum has a Roman water pump from 300AD. The quality of the cast and machined brass piping, fittings, cylinders and so on make it clear to me that they could have done steam power with a little more experimentation.

[@Verm1n]

YO, I DID NOT EXPECT TO HEAR DOVAH'S VOICE. CARTHAGO DELENDA EST

[@braggarmybrat]

Ok Julius, settle your ass down. Give me that bag of salt and why not sit down for a little parley? Competition does everyone a little good. :D

[@antthegord9411]

@@braggarmybrat lol

[@Bigjongdonglongrong]

Ceterum censeo carthaginem esse delendam

[@byzantineboi8345]

And he never collaborated with anyone ever again or hasn’t bothered

[@gamingchamp6728]

May you provide a timestamp

[@JakeBaldwin1]

Romans with just railroads and wire communications is extremely powerful.

[@DrumToTheBassWoop]

Romans with a early form of MBT on the battlefield. No stopping them.

[@ivans.5959]

They'd only one of those things to conquer half of the world

[@HiturMan-nn5pc]

ayyy dovahatty's here,truly an epic crossover

[@SFCKNZSD]

Yes

[@lukewilliams7027]

Based

[@magneticweasel1960]

Truly and unbiased cross over

[@MewxPro]

toooootally unbiased

[@gutar5675]

Did not expect such a based collaboration

[@tarvoc746]

Monsieur Z, a modern pleb: "What if Rome industrialized?" Me, a Roman patrician: "Why would we? We have slaves!"

[@christiandauz3742]

But slaves revolt and can be problematic Besides, Rome wants more bang for its buck

[@kerbodynamicx472]

You get more work out of machines than slaves... you got to feed these slaves or they die, and they need to rest as well. Machines can work 24 hours a day if you give them electricity and proper maintenance.

[@peytondailey6108]

@@kerbodynamicx472 why have these slaves if they will revolt? Why don’t we use those machines that the Greek Egyptian engineers built?

[@pierren___]

Thats litterally why Europe & US didnt robotize

[@tarvoc746]

@@pierren___ Yeah, the wage labor system is the biggest cultural barrier to robotization that exists today, just like slavery was the biggest cultural barrier to industrialization back then.

[@CMAzeriah]

Is it me, or does developing a cult of worshipping industrialization seem like it might become steam punkish. Heck this is interesting and I would love to try introducing this to my dungeons and dragons group. Keep up the great work!

[@rogermon3s141]

Adept Macanicus

[@commissarvincentdaltrevely8269]

welcome to the adeptus mechanicus

[@IONATVS]

The word you’re looking for is sandalpunk. It’s a TINY subgenre, but it has been used before.

[@bomba1905]

Praise the Omnissiah!

[@the-letter_s]

RUSTS CULTISTS

[@jmvt3]

You did a great job finding the most unbiased Roman historian around.

[@ottovonjizzmark9864]

I really like the ancient timelines, but I'd like to see some more medieval timelines.

[@neathizar9743]

I'd like to see one if Roman culture remained dominant in some place in the West, say Hispana/Iberia due to the natural Pyrennes mountains as a protective barrier maybe with walls similar to Hadrian's wall, also since Iberia was known for being very Romanized and producing good soldiers and emperors

[@bruhtonbruhkkinson6848]

Neath Izar North Africa or Italia could be options also. The sea is a highway for trade but also a barrier for large amounts of people - it'd be interesting to see the Berbers maintain a large population alongside the Romans and be Christian. A Carthage of sorts which has to hold against Iberia and Arabia. Italia could've potentially held at the Alps or around Rome and kept Sicily. Might see the Byzantines sponsoring the West Romans to push back to the alp, reintegrate with much less resistance and keep the West a stable front for the Byzantines to focus Eastwards instead.

[@neathizar9743]

@@bruhtonbruhkkinson6848 I would say potential places being North Africa, Iberia, the West Med islands (Corsica, Sardinia, Sicily, and Balearics) maybe Britannia, Italy could as well but given that it has Rome I feel is too much of a prime target for sacking

[@bruhtonbruhkkinson6848]

​@@neathizar9743 Iberia would probably be the most likely option, second to Italia proper. The sack of Rome didn't cause the already evident decay and weakening of the Empire, it's not like Rome hasn't ever been sacked before the Visigoths. Sacking is the least of their issues, a city can rebuild - generations of young men castrating themselves to escape service, bureaucratic corruption and a worsening economic situation. Italia has excellent geography to keeping out, outsiders. Rivers, mountains and then another set of rivers and mountains East of Rome. A rump state based around the Western Mediterranean islands would inevitably just be occupied and destroyed by a land-based power investing into a navy to dominate the Mediterranean. Something that would certainly happen if the Ottomans were to destroy the Byzantines. Britannia was being reconquista'd by native Germano-Celts and there's little trade opportunity in comparison to the Mediterranean (No new world or France yet). North Africa like I mentioned could be possible, only assuming that the Byzantines either never fall and retain control over this Berber Rome or they're able to hold the Caliphates back at Sinai.

[@isthisoptional3351]

I want to see a "what if Rome discovers gunpowder"

[@Robbie-pc1dl]

he took that idea lol *sussy*

[@marcostenorio496]

DOVAH LOOOOL That was hype. He's been my favorite KZbinr by far these past few months (unbiased history 🔥🔥🔥) and to see him here was hype lol If I already loved your channel, now I do more. AVE MONSIEVR X

[@pierresihite8854]

AVE IMPERATOR

[@Stefanism]

Traian’s Bridge, held the title “the longest arch bridge ever built”, for more than 1,000 years.

[@Crassus_Auratus]

being surrounded by noobs is no capability. hehehe.

[@russk1ng128]

1:40 Ah yes, my favorite unbiased historian.

[@itzdatloser7598]

The guy who taught us the empire's history (true history)

[@vulpura]

Is this sarcasm? I've never heard of the guest so I can't tell

[@thefedoraguy7575]

Yes he is the best

[@pierresihite8854]

@@vulpura yes he tells nothing but the truth

[@alexandrub8786]

@@vulpurahere is how he described the jewish revolt,have fun: kzbin.info/www/bejne/q3LIpnajn5l4qas

[@decus9544]

Europe in the time of Rome didn't really have the population density to warrant industrialization. So long as there is more land to expand into and more suitable locations along rivers to make water-mills, that will always be the far cheaper option than creating the machinery to make better use of the land you're already using. That Rome was also a slave state just further compounded this. Had Rome lasted another millennium it would still not have industrialized. The Greeks by contrast would have been more likely to industrialize, had they not be absorbed by Rome. Greece is much more constricted in available land, and they were constantly at the upper limit of the maximum achievable population density for their level of technology for over 1000 years, it was this that led them both to create colonies all around the Mediterranean and to seek to innovate. These are the same factors that later caused Britain to both create colonies and to industrialize, and when Britain's main colony of the U.S. declared independence Britain was forced to redouble its efforts to make better use of the land it had. That the industrial revolution got started at almost exactly the same time as the U.S. declared independence is no coincidence. TL;DR: It seems to me that everything happened, on the largest scale, pretty much the only way it was ever going to.

[@watch50er]

It sounds like Rome would have had to change internally(socially) to cause increased population density to incentivize innovation for Roman industrialization to have a chance at viability. I’m not certain if Romans ever became complacent enough to stagnate population wise to warrant the idea that if they survived another 1000 years longer than they did that they still would never hit population density to tip the focus to industrialization….

[@williambatley3411]

Well, besides an even more grimdark timeline where a plague or what gave you wiped us out entirely. It could always be worse.

[@josephquinnswolin3500]

Ancient Time in a nutshell. Greeks: philosopher Bois Romans:Smart soldier and Engineer Bois

[@josephquinnswolin3500]

@Luca Nicholas Balestra Persians: Chariot Bois Germanian: Angry Bois

[@benedictjajo]

Nerds and Jocks.

[@KLanio-lr8yv]

Phoenetians, trade ship boiz

[@twanbrinkman742]

@@josephquinnswolin3500 we're not angry bois :o the vandals and goths were not the old dutch people:)

[@rp0rige194]

Judeans: merchant bois

[@f9658]

Damn. We’d be like hundreds of years ahead in technology than we are today if the industrialization period started that far back.

[@edeliteedelite1961]

thank god it did not.

[@Спирт-ъ3й]

​@@edeliteedelite1961but we probably will have more steampunk kind of tech. Its better

[@EvilParagon4]

It's weird how much time can be shaved off human history, assuming a perfect guiding force. Like, imagine if human existence was a video game. What do the speedruns look like? We definitely aren't in one of the fast timelines, but maybe we're average? There's a lot of stuff that could have slowed us down yet it didn't, or maybe this is the slowest timeline. Huh. You never really think of _slower_ scenarios. To stop Industrial Revolution, you need to stop the Enlightenment, and to stop the Enlightenment you need to stop the Renaissance. The Renaissance likely happened as a result of Byzantine scholars fleeing Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade. And that looks like where you'd have to put the PoD for a slower scenario. Maybe the Fourth Crusade never happens. Maybe the Byzantines have money to pay the armies to go away, maybe the deposed Prince doesn't even ask them to show up. Maybe Andronikos I doesn't kill catholics or the catholics don't take large offense to it for some reason.

[@christiandauz3742]

Had the Ancient Sumerians started the Industrial Revolution things would be much better Most people would be Atheist by 2020 BC and all of our problems will be gone as mankind colonizes space

[@danshakuimo]

I thought we were pretty fast, but that is relative to nothing. But maybe if the climate was different, like most of the world being steppes or desert, we would have more nomads and fewer settled civilizations that had the potential to industrialize. But is industrialization even possible as a nomad and our conceptualization of industrialization only one version of how it could've happened?

[@blackjak4185]

What’s so “perfect” about everyone being atheist?

[@Daandar]

@@blackjak4185 In theory religion could hold progress back, if your religion tells you the earth is a cube then you're not going to check if thats actually the case, you just assume its true because your religion says so

[@Daandar]

actually, thats exactly what happend during medieval times (+ the church prosecuting inventors because the stuff they discovered didn't match with what the bible said)

[@davidlindsey6111]

Actually lol, improvements in armor, helmets, and shields would prove decisive in the conquest of both germania and Dacia. It also significantly lessens the effects of horse archers on Roman legionnaires in Parthia. It increases access to armor for Roman cavalry, possibly leading to a rise in the use of Heavy cavalry as armor becomes both stronger and more available. Longer swords also become more practical to produce and use as they could be longer without increasing weight too much and cavalry could have longer swords.

[@terrorcop101]

This is one of my favorite historical possibilities to consider. I agree with much of your scenario, thinking that if a Roman industrialization were to occur, it'd start with transportation, with agriculture either at the same time or not far behind. Steamships alone would be enough to get the attention of both the Emperor and the Senate as grain could now be shipped from Egypt to the rest of the empire in half the time or less than was tradition. I feel like everything else would start falling into place after that. New solutions to practical problems, like troop transportation and agriculture would emerge. The big question is whether or not slavery would actually be replaced by mechanized production or if former field slaves would be transferred to factories. The other question is whether it would stave off Rome's collapse, prevent it entirely, or, as you suggested, result in prolonged fragmentation and reunification.

[@kokofan50]

I think you’re underestimating how much more effective the Romans would be. Even a relatively minor advantage in the ability to move troops has created crushing victories in wars. With the advantage of railroads to move whole armies from across the empire in a few days, Rome would just hammer anyone they came in contact with. Also, with a larger population, the losses they did take would be proprietary smaller, and the Romans are know for their ability to raise armies even after devastating losses. Furthermore, with a greater need for skilled labor, Rome would likely have under gone many of the social changes that happened in the West during the industrial revolution, everything from the abolition of slavery to public schools.

[@k_aesar]

I've watched so much Dovahhatty I can almost imagine his characters whenever he talks

[@bcvetkov8534]

Hearing Dovah talk about the empire again brought back so many joyful memories from his series.

[@이동연-c6d]

OMG! Dovahatty is here!!! >_

[@-haclong2366]

01:15 To be fair, "ancient Greece" continued under Rome. Greek philosophers didn't stop inventing under Rome.

[@docreverb]

Did a double take when I heard Dovah lmao. Wasn't expected, but I welcome it wholeheartedly

[@katied.l.elliott7181]

As someone writing about a space age Roman Empire, this is really nice to know for how to make "primitive" history for them.

[@maxwelljw8400]

What if Rome survived long enough to face off against the mongols?

[@erickrasniewski567]

Battle of the ages

[@falco2474]

They actualy did face of against the mongolians since eastern roman empire survived until 1444

[@lfcmike12]

If they did survive in some powerful form long enough, surely they'd have learned throughout their history how to deal with the steppe tactics, after facing the Parthians, the Sassanids, Scythians the Huns etc. I think they'd of been repelled if Rome could still muster Legions in the theoretical situation

[@xptaco2298]

@@falco2474 Not the Byzantine empire the Roman Empire

[@chestakamal6391]

the huns where mongol and turk tribes

[@milobem4458]

In our timeline, main triggers for industrialization were a loom (textile industry), steel (metallurgy) and steam (steam boat). Textile was always one of the main industries, but it is often neglected by historians because before industrialization it was done by unpaid housewives. Majority of women were spinning, knitting, sewing in their "spare" time, to dress their husbands and children. Introduction of an efficient loom had a massive effect on women's lives. Loom doesn't require any exotic materials or power source. Rome was perfectly capable of achieving this and increasing its economy in order of magnitude. Steel is what everyone is talking about so I have nothing to add. You mentioned steam but not it's main use - steam boat. Yes, steam power can be used in mines or cars. But the biggest effect would be in the navy. If Romans managed to improve their steam toys and install them in their ships they would rule the seas. They could improve communications across Mare Nostrum. They could expand into Mare Scythicum, sail up the Danapris and Danubius. Maybe even conquer Hibernia and sail far west out of curiosity.

[@brandonbonett6416]

Who would win Roman steampunk airships or some small Teddy bears

[@yohanbeck8172]

I would never say: "The Romands didn't contribute much for development of society". Nope, wont say it even under threat from a knife.

[@P7777-u7r]

Im a huge believer that Rome was on the brink of industrialization and it was just stopped by societal problems. They had all the components needed to make a piston steam engine they just needed someone to figure out how to put them together I dont know if Rome would have had access to much coal though if they kept north africa theyd have had plenty of oil

[@LanMandragon1720]

Britannica has massive amounts of coal.

[@miguelpereira9859]

The Greeks and Romans had steam engines, they were SO CLOSE to industrialisation but it never materialised. Just goes to show how important a person with a vision can be

[@nestoreleuteriopaivabendo5415]

The piercing radiant moon... The storming of poor June... All the life running through her hair... Approaching guiding light... Our shallow years in sight... Dreams are made winding through my head! Before you now awake!

[@aceofspadesguy4913]

So this is the early lore of that one episode of Star Trek where they find a 20th century Roman Empire. In seriousness, in this scenario I think it’s unlikely that the empire would dissolve into our modern states because of one simple fact: those self propelled vehicles. You have to understand how much of an effect cutting travel time like that has. Europe has so many culturally distinct regions because it was difficult to travel, but if there are already proto-automobiles on Rome’s famous roads travel time has been cut significantly, meaning the empire would feel more connected as a whole. You aren’t just someone in a far flung province that barely hears from the Eternal City, you’re a roman, part of a vast empire, receiving regular news from across the world.

[@537monster]

What the romans were truly effective at, above all else, was organization. They made it so their government and military could run autonomously without the other, and had a system of clear lines of succession and organizational structure that guaranteed that no matter who was in charge, the empire would survive. They had a professional army, primitive corporations, trade companies, they even had a postal service. Their government system was just insanely advanced for their time. They had plenty of other achievements in philosophy, military expansion, and engineering, but their government system was where they truly shined.

[@theintellectualgamer7778]

Bruh you've done 4 Rome videos in a row.... We get it, you're a Romeaboo xD

[@pizzatime1107]

Why the fuck aren’t you a Roneaboo?

[@oofy_emma1072]

Who wouldn't be a Romeaboo

[@dariobarboni9276]

Join us. You pleb.

[@imperialguardsman5929]

@Nik Liwanag nah just a salty american

[@Cagliostro81]

@@dariobarboni9276 Pleb? If he’s not a Romeaboo wouldn’t he technically be something even lower, like a member of the Headcount?

[@mentormaximus9499]

Nice video! This has long been one of my favorite alternate history scenarios and ideas for a movie: Roman Railroads

[@Die_the_Friendly]

When I heard Dovan, I knew this’ll be a great video

[@TheDavid2222]

"The slave population shrank dramatically" because of lack of expansion but mostly because free peasants became largely SERFS who were exploited massively by the Roman state. It was so bad that the masses of serfs hardly had many good feelings toward their overlords by the end of the empire.

[@keptir7551]

next alt-history series 1. what if the aksumite empire never fell 2. what if the ming dynasty survived 3. what if the oromo and bantu migration never happened 4. what if the Seleucid Empire never fell and managed to unify Alexander empire and survives

[@AggelosKyriou]

I'd like to see 1 and 4 myself.

[@randommemesweekly4417]

I can imagine legions using steam trains to get around their empire quickly

[@bjornsmasher66]

Glad to see Dovah here assisting with the production of roman history videos. Your a hard working guy, keep it up.

[@johnkane1800]

I’m loving these Rome videos keep it up

[@spiderlime]

considering the vast size of the empire, a luddite movement is somewhat unlikely, because people who would otherwise be luddites would migrate within the empire or be sent as the core labor force to previously unsettled lands, where traditional labor could still be useful. the descendants of these settlers would be more used to new technologies.

[@achistorian6978]

What if The Warsaw Uprising succeeded ?

[@dajjukunrama5695]

I’ll phrase this as eloquently as I can: why have people, some I won’t mention, some I don’t remember, told me to boycott this channel? Something about ideology

[@ianhooper3921]

The main reason Rome did not develop industrialisation is the lack of coal in Italy and most of their empire, especially around the Mediterranean. Places like the UK were on the fringes of the empire.

[@jakubchalupa8510]

One of the main issues that prevents early industrial revolution is ironmaking. Roman and medieval europe produced only bloomery iron. Romans admitedly did prouduce is on a high scale, but it was still an inefective method given the massive needs for industrialization. This would require the early invention of a blast furnace, or geting the technology from contemporary China.

[@sorcererberoll4641]

Hey was that unbiased history guy I don’t know the channel name but I’m sure it’s him

[@MonsieurDean]

Yep, that's him.

[@anonym12r25]

I knewed

[@ronjayrose9706]

Man I Love That Guy(No Homo)

[@thekingofthisworld2154]

There was an original Star Trek episode about this. The Enterprise crew visited a clone of earth where then Roman Empire never fell.

[@MsLegacy999]

What i find more fascinating about the Romans was their ability to create and identity that despite being roman was adopted by pretty much all the population in the empire, being a roman was as a certain point much more than simple being a citizen of the city of Rome, Rome became much more than the city itself, it became and idea, a nationality, an identity. The downfall of Rome if it were to happen it that timeline would have to happen during the same period that it did in our world, the climate was changing, possibly major plague outbrakes hapanned that led to population decreasing, more so the eastern nomads would only feel more compelled to attack rome due to their even bigger wealth. Internal strife would still be a problem, however with better comunications the distances between the empire would shorten and centralization would happen, also the roman identity and the romanization would be allot more efective in this timeline. Just my 2 cents on the mather. Great video!!!

[@dmitritelvanni4068]

3:00 in and i just realized im not on dovahattys channel. Lol nice. One of the best narrators on youtube.

[@presidentandroid]

Cool video 👌🏻

[@MonsieurDean]

Thanks, pally.

[@presidentandroid]

Who pally 🤔

[@AntonioBrandao]

Great to see the little clip from Dovahhatty!! 👌

[@nerobernardino88]

Rome: *slaps autocart* This badboy can fill so many snowballs... China, Persia, India and etc: Snowballs? Rome: I'm snowballing so hard you can call my next move the Roman Avalanche!

[@christiandauz3742]

If Rome Industrialized so would China and India Han China conquers Mongolia with its muskets and cannons! Rome and India divide Persia between them

[@warlordofbars9074]

Dunno if you guys like this kind of stuff, but there's a Dungeons and Dragons Kickstarter that's going on right now called Age Of Antiquity, and it pretty much sets up a scenario where you play during Caesar's rule of Rome (with real gods and actual mythical beasts sprinkled in) and I'm pretty sure you could have your own industrialized Rome session in there. Just so ya know. Romani Ite Domum

[@mydogsbutler]

Not to dismiss Roman's own achievements but from scientific standpoint they were a distant second to ancient Greeks. A more interesting alternate history video would be what if Rome hadn't conquered Greece? Would Greece have continued producing science millennia ahead of its time?

[@pipikaka3886]

Sooner or later, even without Rome’s conquest of Greece, Mongol tribes would push hard against the Greek city states. Would the acquired new technology be enough to repel the conquering tribes from the Far East? Who knows…

[@mydogsbutler]

@@pipikaka3886 You make a good point. Whether it was the Romans, Mogols, Celts, or someone else every civilization eventually falls. That said, considering how far ahead of everyone else ancient Greeks were even a few more centuries of sovereignty invites the question could an industrial revolution have happened in antiquity? Ancient Greeks were pretty close to it from science perspective. They created the foundations of mathematics and physics. They also had impressive engineering skills (Antikythera mechanism comes to mind) I sometime wonder the same question with Rome and Christianity. Had not Christians oppressed pagan thought would it have been enough to avoid the dark ages? Would we be ahead athousand years ahead technologically today? These what-if scenarios although unprovable aren't entirely without usefulness. IMO by considering the failures of past civilizations it can shed some light on behaviors we should probably avoid ourselves..

[@b-tags]

"And bacon, because it's good." 🤣😂🤣 Spit my coffee out when I heard that!

[@badgamemaster]

By Sol Invictus.... Legate Dovahhatty..... now Monsueur Z has to watch out for the Praetorian Guard.... rip Aurelian

[@jmoreland4]

oh hey Dovahatty, i wasn't expecting that

[@이동연-c6d]

What if Japan won the Battle of khalkhin gol and What if the Korean Empire survives?

[@kampilandelacruz4925]

@Thelondonbadger No. Japan is very lucky that USA forced them to open.

[@thijsbergman2424]

Vocal fry combined with a crude Schwarzenegger impression

[@kuzev]

If the Romans were able to industrialise that early I would expect they tackle one of the biggest problems of governing such a huge empire - communication. Industrialisation inevitably leads to faster transport and electricity. That would allow for a more centralised and unified state. But even if it broke down to provinces some kind of a commonwealth would still be in place.

[@reindeerflrp9041]

Nobody: History channel in 3 am: what of rome industrialized?

[@TheAzureNightmare]

When will you make a guest spot in Dovahhatty's work? Seeing you do voices would be cool.

[@MonsieurDean]

I brought up helping out for his possible series on American History, but if it happens, it's still a while away.

[@AsbestosMuffins]

the funny thing is the romans were just on the cusp of industrialized but they never really made that intuitive leap, but then europeans only made the leap because they needed to make better cannons. the need for iron drove the invention of a steam water pump, cannon boring techniques were used directly for creating a better steam engine, and in turn the industrial revolution began blackpowder really was such a paradigm shift in human power, in that it put engineering and science out front

[@princekalender2154]

The Romans were superior on engineering, the Greeks on thought. The empire was good for economy yet rather bland regarding thinkers.

[@TesterAnimal1]

Antikythera Mechanism begs to differ.

[@princekalender2154]

@@TesterAnimal1 no. As with the automata in Alexandria, Greek technology had no practical aplication. Romans on the other hand, concreted their way to empire.

[@jacobogonzalez6383]

love to hear from dovah once again

[@studentofhistory718]

AVE DOVAHHATTY

[@imnotchilla9482]

dont u mean A V E D O V A H H A T T Y

[@pierresihite8854]

AVE IMPERATOR

[@DerDudelino]

It's fascinating how power shifted over the centuries. Rome and Egypt used to be the most powerful nations on earth, now they are barely getting an invitation to G20 summits. Just read a book trilogy called Ramses that details in a fascinating way how perfectly managed Egypt was. Their harbors were as efficient as ours today and they were huge fans of rules for everything. Like the Romans.

[@daxasd3270]

I think one of the main issues with this scenario is the possibility of romes end. Just like the later seperation in east and west rome, the differences between different regions drifting away would've lead to even more splintering. I think this could've lead to the empires end.

[@ryankroeger3264]

I'm working the night shift and its 4:00am I hear Dovhatty's voice in a video not expecting it at all and it gives me... idk...hope

[@codieomeallain6635]

His name is not Caligula it’s Gaius. As in properly Gaius, not just Gaius as a family thing. And depending on which advancements are made he might never have gotten sick and gone mad which would lead to quite a large change from him being a caricature of cruelty and a shadow of his former self to one of the greatest Emperors and battle commanders.

[@andrewconte9094]

Dovhatty good to see you!

[@Arturius_Rex_8]

Rome was averse to naval power development. They sailed within sight of the coast as much as possible. They turned ship-to-ship combat into infantry battles through deployment of boarding planks.

[@TesterAnimal1]

The Corvus? That didn’t last long.

[@vazak11]

That was quite solid and engaging, kudos! I do feel Parthia might try and keep and eye on these developments and match them though.

[@monarchblue4280]

Attempt 2: What if Japan became Christian in the 1600s? What if Canada adopted Social credit during the great depression? What if the USSR and India became one country somehow ? What if Russia won the Crimean war? Or Austria helped ? What if The Aztecs had beaten the Spanish and acquired horses. What if The Holy Roman Empire actually united into one country and became an actual empire What if the Soviets reached the Moon first?

[@이동연-c6d]

I love it!

[@Azoth86730]

India joining USSR sounds interesting.

[@JohnJBrowne11209]

Love the tone of this.

[@ReasonableRadio]

We also have to take into account how fast roman technology would be copied and improved upon by nearby peoples, depending on their contact and ability to actually apply them, plus how much of a threat they would seem to the romans.

[@garrettrice4885]

The concrete and the corpse bit bought my undying patronage 🤣🤣🤣

[@emperor_ra]

I feel like I've seen this title before but hey cool.

[@aidanciesinski8174]

Whatifalthist made a video about this a few weeks ago, I don’t know if Monsieur Z copied him or if he also had this idea in his head beforehand.

[@matiasmendes8528]

I definitively didn’t expect dovahatty here