What if Roy was High Tier in Melee?

[@jesselitrell8359]

if enough of these mods are made i'm going to start running locals with these mods. melee 2 is here

[@taylorbee4010]

Mailey has similar problems to Marvel 2 and 3rd strike and that at the top level a lot of characters just aren't great or feel unfinished

[@illford]

@@taylorbee4010 Mailey lmao

[@nickyos8640]

I'm bout it

[@Alakadoof]

Hey! I'm one of the main PM Devs that worked on Roy. This is great! Just a few things I've noticed that are worth mentioning: Your current version of Dsmash double hits, instead of changing hitbox stats like it does in PM. It also has two swipe sounds instead of one heavier SFX. (Also, you gotta add flames. ;) ) Nair has the same SFX issue as Dsmash. Nothing game-changing, but worth a mention. Great work on this! Was fun to watch, and I'm glad to hear that people are still loving Roy's improved appearance in PM, even years down the road!

[@SunsetBear]

Hey thanks for the comment! I love Project M and Roy is by far my favorite character for reasons I'm sure you heard me explain in the video. I just want to express gratitude. Project M is the best game I've ever played. The community is the best I've ever interacted with online. Being able to contribute something meaningful to that community, like this mod, means a lot. It also means a lot that you took the time to try it yourself! And yeah, there are a couple things that need fixing that I'm aware of, but I've had this version nearly finished, gathering dust on my desktop, for about a month now, and I needed to polish it up the best I could and get it out there. I can and likely will make updates to the mod, and I'll edit the link in the video's description when that happens.

[@Alakadoof]

@@SunsetBear I understand the desire to push something out before you lose all motivation. :) Thanks for putting in the effort on this! If you end up getting too distracted, just let me know and I can take a crack at it! I haven't flexed those muscles in a few years, but it's always fun. Just curious, what other issues are there? I haven't given it a full spin yet - looking forward to some direct-matches with Slippi soon. :D

[@SunsetBear]

@@Alakadoof Here's a list of discrepancies: -Ledge grab box does not match Project + /PM 3.5 -UpB cannot grab ledge from behind -Tipper dash attack hitbox doesn't appear (this one fucking annoys me because I tried a lot of times to get it to appear and it doesn't. Kind of insulting too, considering the way it was in melee.) -Usmash's body hitbox is shifted slightly from where it should be positioned (this one also annoys me and should be fixed but isn't) -Since the down air animation is still melee's, landing spikes from the front is slightly easier. Less to do with the hitbox placement of the spike and more to do with the position of his sword on the first active frame. If you wanna talk more about this ever, just friend request me over on discord at sunsette#6429

[@Alakadoof]

@@SunsetBear Says you aren't accepting friend requests. :) Alakadoof#5404

[@Eltrotraw]

This is such a wholesome interaction. I'd love to see how this develops for any future changes

[@SunsetBear]

If both you and a friend both have this mod installed, you can play this mod online with Slippi's rollback netcode! Use direct connect. Edit as of 7/16/2020: Several inaccuracies and bugs were fixed thanks to Shadic, a former Project M Dev! Download link in the description updated. Changes: Dsmash - SFX adjusted. Fire GFX added. On-hit element changed to fire. Dash Attack - Tip hitbox fixed, given different on-hit SFX (THWACK). USmash - Crotch hitbox centered for repeating and final hit, to match PM. Nair - SFX adjusted to closer resemble PM. Neutral B - Uncharged damage increased from 6 to 10 to match PM. Side B - Aerial boost increased (using SD Remix's value).

[@SupaBubbaMusic]

Do you plan on doing this with other low tiers as well?

[@Vigilanteblade]

Oh hey, I was wondering if you has a ressource to help set this up. Since I worked on PM Roy, I'm very curious about your build.

[@master_productions]

The new and improved magicscrumpy

[@MultiMadgeek]

no :)

[@illford]

@@MultiMadgeek yes. He's like magic scrumpy but he actually credits his sources and does the work himself

[@cooldes4593]

I wonder what this would look like with Ultimate Roy in melee

[@HaydenTheEeeeeeeeevilEukaryote]

it’s funny how ult roy is the most melee esc character in ultimate - doesnt recover for free - pretty good momentum preservation - i guess aggro...well okay maybe it ends here, maybe there’s more to it like if his playstyle is melee like too

[@nicolascarter173]

This mod looks amazing, I'd love to see more like this in the future! I love Melee's engine but the PM character designs of previously low-tier characters are amazing. This complete redesign of Roy and shows that those two can go together well, and it'd be incredible to see more of that combination. I'm glad you went with making him into a high tier instead of just "viable" too, I've seen so many mods try to make a character to around the viability of Dr. Mario or that area when the most fun in melee comes from the insane options of top tiers, and I hope that continues if you decide to make another mod like this.

[@tenacity25]

imo, the ideal smash is balanced around high tiers.

[@Vigilanteblade]

Oh wow, I never saw this before. I was involved in Roy's developement alongside Shadic, who was the lead. I think this os pretty cool.

[@rubiconcrossing4480]

2:19 hey vsauce, michael here!

[@heythatsmypoo]

Awesome vid! Roy’s our boy.

[@ohnoonline]

I have been playing PM on and off since high school and I am just now learning in 2023 that PM Roy does GUNFLAME??????

[@PhantasticTruth]

Whay chu talking bout fool!? Roy is the true test, only the prophesized chosen one is meant to handle your boy. All others will fall from grace.

[@miiguel3550]

Love the vsauce music

[@scottmckibbin947]

So I feel like this could be the beginning of Melee+ or whatever you wanna call it. One of the biggest things I dislike about playing melee is the metashare of fox/falco/marth. I swear 90% of my slippi matches are just these 3 characters. If we were able to balance out more mid and low tier characters, and add more stages, I feel like the game would be even more amazing. If anything, PM/Project+, Slippi, 20xx, and now you show that improvement is possible and people will support it.

[@Reece8u]

I find if I start trolling with bowser or g&w my opponent will start playing characters like kirby, you just gotta show them you will also commit to playing low tiers

[@tenacity25]

honestly the ideal smash game imo would be balanced around high tiers

[@blazeneo7663]

As a Roy main in EVERY SMASH GAME HE'S IN I agree with every change EXCEPT for the animation changes there was no need for that yes it took time and they look very nice but it was not needed......but great vid tho :)

[@hildebluee]

they're necessary to make the visuals sync with the frame data though

[@SRM13]

Great video man! I enjoyed tf out of it

[@devoncampbell3607]

Roy might be a tad overturned as is, but I really like that you actually did the mod.

[@kalif2164]

*A skilled Roy can beat any player*

[@AB54099]

Now you got me curious if smash ultimate roy would work as well in melee's engine.

[@doobi6343]

I think it would be fantastic, depending on if Ult Roy’s base landing lag was kept the same, so that his L canceled aerials would be borderline busted. His jab having the same functionality of melee down tilt, but still giving him a poking tool in Ult downtilt is great for his safety. His upair lasting for so long would be a premiere juggling tool in the game. His side b being as busted as it is in melee might be fantastic if it keeps the opponent in as well as it does in ultimate, since it’s not technically a multihit And downair sending up on the sourspot but hitting through platforms would honestly make it work similar to Falcon stomp on the ground.

[@NormalPunch-]

Great video

[@Amaling]

When that vsauce music I knew shit was going down

[@landronsc]

They did our boi right

[@calebrobinson6406]

Not bad for a first video!

[@42rockjock]

Very interested to see how you handle Mewtwo and some of the other Melee low tiers

[@SunsetBear]

:)

[@kirbymontrey3897]

Could you do one of these for other low tiers?

[@MisterAutist]

I would LOVE to see one for Ness

[@jakezepeda1267]

Im casting my vote for Link.

[@tenacity25]

I'm voting for Ganon. He's viable, sure, but I'd like to see more characters balanced more around high tiers.

[@doobi6343]

God just imagine melee ness with ultimate magnet

[@nickyos8640]

I've been searching all over the internet and youtube for a dissection of Roy's hitboxes, I want to see how to spike consistently with Roy's down air. In vanilla melee not project m or anything

[@nickyos8640]

He actually mightve answered my question

[@SunsetBear]

@@nickyos8640 it's on his head and shoulders only, if your opponent touches any part of your sword it won't work

[@nickyos8640]

@@SunsetBear okay thanks sm brother

[@heythatsmypoo]

Hi I commented before, and I’d like to say you did a wonderful job with this mod; it’s a ton of fun to play with PM Roy in Melee and I think he fits in with the cast perfectly. I have no idea if you’ll see this or not but still, this is something that deserves a lot of praise! Especially since this is definitely not an easy task. I’m also curious though, how exactly did you make this? I know there was some help as noted in the video, but it seems like you did some animation work too. I’ve looked around for guides and some say you have to use Maya or something, Blender maybe? And I’m assuming Smash Forge is a big part of it too. Nowadays, with the Akaneia mod adding Wolf, and Beyond Melee adding even more characters and adding new animations, it seems like anything is possible, and despite the difficulty I’d want to give it a shot again (I tried stuff with the 3DS version of Smash 4 but there really wasn’t much to do) considering there’s no audience for that game, and I’m rather inexperienced. Coding and all that is very interesting to me and I’d like to learn how to do it with a Smash project, but it’s also worth considering if I’m too inexperienced? Sorry for the long comment and/or if you’re busy

[@SunsetBear]

I'm a lead dev for beyond melee, I can definitely help you and elaborate on any questions you might have. Add me on discord at sunsette#6429 and we can talk there

[@malbo-]

Hey i'm having some issues trying to install the mod. So I have two dat files, they're both named basically the same and I don't know if there's a difference, the tutorial by scrumpy doesn't clarify it either, it just runs the PIFe.dat file on crazy hand, I tried to do that with both dat files and it didn't work so I'm out of ideas. I know there's a big probability that I'm really stupid and confused, but any help is appreciated

[@SunsetBear]

You can’t use crazy hand to install this mod, you need to go to the time stamp, but idk if it’s clear exactly where that is, lol. If you still care about installing the mod, find the part of the video that talks about installing more than just PlFe.dat

[@archmelee]

@@SunsetBear there's no point in the video that states how to download it.

[@malbo-]

​​@@SunsetBear hey I randomly remembered this video and realized I never replied, I got it to work in the end, 3 years ago. I still enjoy the mod, pm character design rules

[@Johnny_Duster]

Why did Roy even have to get more end lag I mean what was gonna happen if he had the same amount of everything like Marth but the only difference was the sweet spots and him being heavier

[@SunsetBear]

I am sure that during playtesting his forward smash was a big point of concern for the devs haha

[@shnibbletron69]

Are you planning on doing this with other characters? This looks really interesting and would like to see more melee characters get a rework.

[@SunsetBear]

;)

[@gamesincharacter5106]

What slippi file do i put the moveset mod in.

[@SunsetBear]

@@gamesincharacter5106 No slippi files you’re modifying the melee rom using probably dat texture wizard

[@gamesincharacter5106]

@@SunsetBear oh okay thnx for the info much appreciated also is this safe on slippi?

[@michaelmayernik9448]

A Functional Roy can beat any Fox?

[@thepooroldsoul8179]

How do you set up the mod?

[@xSkwintz]

What if? Didn’t he just win two big tournament recently? Sounds high tier to me.

[@SunsetBear]

lol

[@jesselitrell8359]

this video is great. please denoise your microphone.

[@SunsetBear]

i gotta get a not trash one first, this is literally a mic that people would use at like a church

[@lycantubeves5992]

If Ultimate Roy where in melee, he would be mid tier or high tier?

[@SunsetBear]

high tier af imo. i mean youd have to tweak his hitboxes for his moves to make sense in the engine, but that character is blisteringly fast, super low shorthop, low landing lag, good kill power, sword character. He would be faster than Marth. That's a recipe for success right there.

[@lycantubeves5992]

@@SunsetBear but moves like dair can be meteor cancel, and dtilt maybe for tech situations, his recovery is almost the same, his throws in ultimate are great and if you put it in melee well, uair is better thanks that his hitbox cover the back hit now, and dash attack can kill. But I don't know, I want to read the opinion of others. Edit: Thanks for reading my comment :'D

[@potatostuffing5643]

He would probably be the best character in the game if used correctly and in the hands of a player who masters using him.

[@Ziggylata]

This looks completely broken.

[@Oh-Ben]

Being a long time Roy player (talking 2002 here) I don't think PM made Roy "work". It didnt feel like Roy and slapped random things until it worked. The problem is Roys moves dont work or connect until his opponents percents are at 120% or higher. But his main issue lies in the fact his tilts should be better than Marth. Roy was clearly supposed to be a better grounded character while Marth was better in the air, and we all know what Melee favors. They made his side b, dtilt and fsmash better, and upsmash is easier to use. But they didnt commit to the idea so Roy sucks lol. This is why I dont get making Roys upair and dair just like Marth because what's the point when that's Marth's strength to begin with. Fox and Falco use the same moves and tools with highly unique gameplay between the two while fixing Roy boils down to, give Roy Marth's aerials. Roys dair seems like it was supposed to be a combo/juggling move if done correctly, and does just that on Spacies. Roys ftilt is actually good (when it works) and sends opponents at a nasty angle, the problem being is its feels painfully slow so you might as well use fsmash instead, even if ftilt covers a wider area. PM Roys ftilt doesn't make sense given the characters design. Roy wasnt supposed to be a combo character like Marth but a mix up, 1-2/single hit character. Roys redesign in 4 saw through with this. I miss his dtilt but they understood its important and gave it to his jab instead. Now look at Roy in Ultimate which is the boy we all knew he could be.

[@ddurlon]

This^^^

[@EpicOdysseus]

I don't think Roy was "supposed to be a better grounded character." I think they took Marth and swapped some values around to make him different enough to pad out the roster. You can ASSUME that that was their intention with the grounded vs air thing, but with how Melee's clones were known to be developed (literal roster padding), I highly doubt that was actually the design philosophy. It's also very clear in this video that both PM and this mod here didn't just give Roy Marth's aerials. The use of both upair juggles and mixing in dairs functions entirely differently than Marth. Just because Roy isn't garbage in the air doesn't mean he's essentially Marth now; PM/Melee Marth and PM Roy play very differently. This is also ignoring the fact that Marth is still really good on the ground anyway, lol

[@SunsetBear]

They didn’t make dtilt or fsmash better. I literally didn’t edit them for this mod because they are exactly the same. They made ftilt and utilt much better, which are the tilts you wanted buffed- and I super disagree on ftilt not making sense or being too slow or not being useful- it has a longer reach, faster startup, and is less committal than fsmash. PM Roy is an excellent grounded character, dash attack and utilt actually working at low percents does so much for him, his new ftilt makes his neutral much more complex, and keeps him a lot more safe because of its range. He also still gets his excellent dashdance, grab range and throw game from melee. I don’t know what more he could be missing.

[@mehgamer467]

@@EpicOdysseus pretty much this. This post is just on a lot of assumption which is fine. But roy most likely wasn't really thought to be much to begin with.

[@Oh-Ben]

@@SunsetBear I should of clarfield, for that I was talking about the melee devs for that. I still disagree with ftilt completely. A far reaching move does not fit what Roy is.

[@Bexc_]

uwu whats this

[@SunsetBear]

owu

[@potatostuffing5643]

@@SunsetBear uwo

[@buffbear7890]

i feel like you went too far, now it seems like he can be degenerate specifically with his nair, especially if it auto cancels like marths, i could be completely wrong since i havent played this but i think this went just a bit overboard imo. But its not like im a professional lol

[@SunsetBear]

roy falls faster than marth and this nair is longer than his, so it could never auto cancel like that- all this does is make the 2 hits closer together

[@Giggles_iJest]

God meta mentality is lame