What if the Third Reich survived WW2?

[@bunnyhop1017]

Sarah Paine has to be the most interesting speaker ever. I love these posts with her answering questions. I could listen to her all day.

[@johnhardiman8192]

She is great, I agree.

[@giovannir1422]

Glad this came up in my feed. She is so engaging and informative. Thanks for doing this interview and posting

[@OrnumCR]

I agree entirely with her viewpoint. WW1 was the absolute catalyst for the consequences of what followed. In essence, a part one, then a pause, then a part two to really finalise things….awful.

[@fredjackson8408]

Who funded WW1? Dont worry, you don't have to say it out loud if you're afraid.

[@EIfric]

nope. jewish behavior was the catalyst. always has been.

[@Sully2001]

@@fredjackson8408*asks a question but already has a predetermined answer*

[@jameslane3841]

Churchill, originally articulated this as the 30 yrs war. The history channel did a documentary on this touching on it at a 30k feet view.

[@tinman3586]

That was Stephen Ambrose who said that many years ago when he did the World at War documentary. He said World War I and II were essentially one European Civil War with a long armistice in between.

[@DannyPoet]

Really interesting point on WW1 being the cause of what happened after.. makes u kind of wonder what world wed be living in if WW1 never started ..

[@planderlinde1969]

If WW1 never started the world would be radically different from the one we know today. However given the situation Europe found itself in by the 1910s a major global conflict was inevitable.

[@M1tjakaramazov]

Literally every educated European, at least outside the UK, knows this. What's really interesting is that it was African colonialism that largely caused WW1. The European rush to divide the continent led to military treaties to assure peace between the competing nations. These treaties were then instrumental in drawing every country into war once some of them started fighting in Europe. So in a way everything from African colonisation to the end of the cold war is just one continuous link of events in European history. WW1 was the first time the white man's hubris really bit him in the ass, leading to the systematic death of his own kind; but the seeds were laid 30 years earlier, and the devastation only ended 75 years later.

[@iche9373]

Pax Europea would occur based on multilateralism

[@rainbowodysseybyjonlion]

but WW1 was a accumulation of napoleon wars, war of 1870, even the american revolution had a part of it. So many different things led up to and built up to WW1 and 2. You cant put it all on one event as history ignorant people tend to do.

[@rainbowodysseybyjonlion]

@@planderlinde1969 if WW1 never started a majority of the world would have been stuck in dictatorships for a very long time. WW1 and 2 got rid of european dictatorships once and for all.

[@chadwhitman1811]

She had a good point about Britain being a maritime power rather than a Continental power. In many of Continental wars including the Napoleonic Wars her role in the land battles was secondary to her maritime roles ,even in the Peninsular wars she had the somewhat ineffectual Spanish allies both regular army and Guerrilla forces tying down many French troops and winning some battles. In the seven years wars her main contribution was monetary to the hard pressed Prussia but she reaped huge rewards in India and America by virtue of her naval strength. The First world War changed all that.

[@RidleyScottOwnsFailedDictators]

Don't forget that Napoleon invaded Spain with a JUGGERNAUT military. The most powerful army in the world, by far, that Napoleon used and abused. So it was not so much that the Spanish were ineffectual, especially since they won the Peninsular War together with Britain, they were facing vast military resources which Napoleon was willing to us up all of it. So give the Spanish a little more credit in victory.

[@stxfdt1240]

You didn't do anything

[@chadwhitman1811]

@@stxfdt1240( ?)

[@RidleyScottOwnsFailedDictators]

@@stxfdt1240 Talk about being "ineffective", who was the one who ran a once juggernaut French military into the ground in total defeat? Who left a generation's worth of French boys in mass graves as enemy troops marched down the streets of Paris, leaving France under military occupation? If you want to talk about "ineffective", no one beats the incompetent wasteful Napoleon and how he wasted away the juggernaut military that he seized from a lost and confused France. But of course that is not the way 19th Century European history framed it. So to the speaker's point, the British were so delusional in thinking that they had fought so great on the Continent during the Napoleonic Wars and won it for Europe, when it was Napoleon's massive blunders and lack of foresight in military incompetence that led to Napoleon's defeat, way before Waterloo. That is why the British thought they were such a great continental army, but got punished in both WW1 and WW2 continental campaigns, delusional and dishonest storytelling to themselves about how they won the Napoleonic Wars.

[@stxfdt1240]

@RidleyScottOwnsFailedDictators britain is nothing but just another fraud power whose days disappeared just like that....Roman Empire is the real deal and perhaps the ottomans a 2nd....

[@ericofthewest24]

This talking point about grand strategy gives you far more appreciation for General Grant during the US Civil War. He understood logistics, communication and the necessity to achieve long-term goals vs tactical gains. The Confederacy came close to crushing the Union fighting spirit multiple times but Grant plotted carefully on how to break their capacity to fight.

[@MrGchiasson]

This woman is brilliant and interesting at the same time. I could sit and listen to her for hours.

[@psycho8927]

Nope

[@experience5988]

She talks a lot of lies and shit.

[@iuliuslovin37]

@@experience5988 like what? lol

[@ragnarok283]

Cuck

[@genericscout5408]

@@iuliuslovin37 if I recall she perpetuates myths, and hides major statistics, glossing over events like the massive loss of life of Natives during colonialsm, or glossing over black oppression. At least those were what I saw in the youtube short comments. Despite all of that I'm not educated enough to know if she's lying, misinformed, or if the comments were wrong. After all the shorts aren't in context so she could have spoken at length on the topics but just not in the clip.

[@thedailywin537]

These interviews would be perfect if Patel's rambling, stream-of-consciousness inquiries were ruthlessly edited down into single questions that didn't require more than 5-7 seconds each. Better yet, just have him read from a prepared script...off camera, if necessary. We know he means well, and his interest in the subject is admirable, but...just put him on a verbal diet. Please. Prof. Paine's replies, on the other hand, shouldn't be touched. Every sentence, every thought, every suggestion...they can all stand on their own.

[@fikretpajalic1224]

Patel is absolutely terrible; he struggles to fully pronounce words and often swallows them as he rushes to speak, cramming too much into just a few seconds. As a result, his questions are frequently unintelligible.

[@224dot0dot0dot10]

​@@fikretpajalic1224Patel's questions are better than her replies. Sarah Paine might be ignorant of the actual details of World War 2 history : How does Sarah Paine explain the fact that the commander of Hitler's SS bodyguard unit, Erich Kempka is a Slavic ethnic Polish person with 4 Slavic grandparents from Poland? What does Sarah Paine say about Bandera and the Banderites or Konstantin Voskoboinik or Vlasov or Pyotr Krasnov or Bronislav Kaminski? There are more than a hundred thousand Polish and Czechoslovakian soldiers in the German Wehrmacht in World War 2 and there are more than a million Soviet Union citizens (including Russians and Ukrainians) who collaborated with Germany in WW2 (as Hiwis or soldiers) and yet Sarah Paine believes that Hitler wanted to murder all Slavic people, when in reality Hitler was an anti-Jewish anti-Semite and not an anti-Czech or anti-Poleite or anti-Ukrainian

[@craiggillett5985]

Completely agree, but doesn’t she manage his verbosity well! She even defines his questions for him.

[@JM-ct9mx]

He does those long ramblings, because these "debates" are scripted to spread a false narrative that supports the US endless wars. The thing is that the level of idiocy is beyond imagination.

[@billwatkins8227]

I enjoyed her response

[@hunflovescandid]

General Patton: "We defeated the wrong enemy."

[@Squash101]

Did you not listen to the clip? The Germans were competent with their destruction. Russians, not as much.

[@machovalkarie7896]

He is right. We should have fought the flies instead of the ussr and nazi germany

[@gary6576]

Same general who didn't give a damn about his men and was extremely egotistical.

[@Spillers72]

We could have just let the Nazis and Soviets weaken each other down. My fear is though, millions more would have died in the Holocaust.

[@SpectacularDisaster]

Patton was wrong, the Nazis had to be erraticed.

[@danzwku]

Looking forward to the full episode!

[@LCCWPresents]

I took a class in college in ww1 history and this reason alone was enough to ruin the central powers. With the except of u boat raids and a couple small successes in Indian Ocean piracy, Germany never could level with the uk in ww1 when they had a navy and even less so in ww2. Also (more so in ww2), Germany had less resources and poor mismanagement of the stuff they had (which was almost nothing). Even if Germany won ww2, Germany would’ve run fry on supplies because their policies were isolating comparatively to the countries they were fighting.

[@georges.7683]

Germany's economic philosophy of autarky was not sustainable. Autarky demanded that the Germans conquest the Slavic lands to the east to maintain self-sufficiency. Stopping with the annexation of adjacent German-speaking lands would have led to the collapse of the German economy.

[@casimirgroeck]

Horace Greeley Hjalmar Schacht would agree.

[@turplexx233]

They should have chosen technocrats and corporatist solidarists then😂

[@texasqzacharymiller626]

You’re outta your mind. You obviously took the main stream narrative without looking into it yourself. The economy was back by the German worker (aka cars, technology, etc….). It was the strongest economy in the world and did so during the Great Depression. And if you take that “war manufacturing” narrative is what got them out of it, then you’ve been caught in their trap twice. Hell the American economy is built on the 3rd Reich model. What we produce determines our dollars value. Exports…….

[@stoneruler]

They would have changed to a different policy if the economy stagnates. Every country does this. No one is foolish enough to just follow the same path until the end.

[@terminalimpact2771]

It could be replaced with national capitalism as one they either lose war and receive mounting losses or run out of countries to conquer, and have to rely on a market economy to sustain itself. Similar to Maoist and Post-Maoist China throughout the early 60s to mid 80s.

[@DJ_Force]

WWII was just the second half of WWI. Germany took a breather, rearmed, and went after France, Russia and Britain again.

[@thomasjames9678]

The Great War was so influential to today's geopolitics and economic powerhouses. The gunshot that killed Franz Ferdinand began a chain reaction that we still see today.

[@russellandrews1177]

Sarah Paine is amazing, and her patience in the face of your ridiculously leading questions is amazing.

[@lhaley9873]

Looking back the entire 20th century could be seen as a continuous war, from the Balkin wars to the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[@mixlllllll]

The Yugoslav wars continued long after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

[@jactre3]

Thanks!

[@Nick-r7u7u]

General Patton said we fought wrong people

[@kurtvonfricken6829]

He loved war.

[@michaelarmstrong5065]

And Patton was the first casualty of the cold war for saying that

[@randycampbell6307]

Patton was wrong in that in WWII in Europe we were fighting an ideology not a people. Patton was even more wrong about the ideology he wanted to fight next since he saw Communism as a future threat but he didn't see the bigger picture of what an attack on a now prepared and united USSR that had grown from the German invasion. As she says in another clip, prior to the German invasion Russia and the USSR itself were not really a united or coherent "nation". After the invasion and occupation they were much more united and ready for a war. Nobody really wanted to start that "next" war and hence we got the Cold War.

[@dreamawake2670]

We sure did. Look at the west today.

[@zivaradlovacki2666]

Oh you did, and also made sure fascism and nazism live on. Nothing changed to this day.

[@AliAbdullah042]

Where to get full video?

[@tygressblade]

Got the creator page.

[@weirdshibainu]

While WW1 undoubtedly held a catalyst for WW2, the prime directive for Britain's policy toward the Continent has always been living in fear of a continental superpower, no matter the nation, nor the ideology. Britain has played the role of agitator on the continent for centuries in order to keep the various nations in check. They simply cannot afford to live in the shadow of unified continent, no matter how tenuous.

[@TheTimdoyle]

Something many people miss entirely. It is not in the interest of Britain to have a United Europe.

[@nonono9194]

Britain didn't want to get involved in a war with Germany, chamberlain repeated fought against that. It was only because Churchill and various other politicians were bribed by the usual suspects to push for a war with Germany at all costs

[@andrijapfc]

Funny thing that's exactly what they got know with Brexit (living in the shadow of a unified continent)

[@weirdshibainu]

@@andrijapfc Not really. The E.U. doesn't have military designs on England.

[@andrijapfc]

@@weirdshibainu Military designs are not the only threat

[@christopherphillip9506]

Really like your content. You ask the right questions and get great structured answers.

[@johngalt3940]

If they didn’t invade Russia, and called it quits, they could have negotiated trade with Soviet Union and built defences in east Poland and Romania instead of taking on the largest country on earth.

[@kevingrem1364]

it was kill or be killed. Soviets plan to invade at some point! plus part of the German objective was to reunify all German speaking people of which Soviet union had 4 mil!

[@jeopardyfan122]

I mean sure, if Stalin is cool with that and has no ambitions of expansion into Europe. But he did have imperial ambitions over Europe.

[@Scott3717]

The Soviets had already invaded Romania a year before Operation Barbarossa, the Romanians begged for help from Germany and Italy to put a stop to it.

[@marketingIdeaslol]

@@jeopardyfan122u guys are acting like hitler did invade Poland, Belguim, France, and Russia. A lot of just either people who really like hitler or dudes who don’t like “communism” so they want Stalin to be worse

[@chavitacanta008]

Russia may have been largest in land area but 90% of people lived in western Russia ! Even today they only have a few million more people than Mexico !

[@anthonygerace8926]

Brilliant woman. A family anecdote that supports her point about the cultural differences between Germans and Russians: A branch of my extended family are Jews whose ancestors were in Poland until World War Two. In 1939, Poland, of course, was JOINTLY invaded by Germans from the west and Soviets from the east. The family members who were in western Poland were mostly wiped out by the Nazis, with only a few surviving. The family members who were in eastern Poland were deported to Soviet forced-labor camps in Russia. Plenty of hardships, but most of them survived. At least for them, Stalin was the lesser of two evils.

[@TheTimdoyle]

If you think the Soviets were inefficient then you need to read “the gulag archipelago”.

[@jody6851]

Don't forget that other Jews who were in the Soviet-occupied part of Poland joined the Soviet Red Army, as well. I have a friend whose father -- a Polish Jew -- made it to the Soviet lines and eventually became a tank commander in the Red Army. He immigrated to the US after the war. Many Polish and Russian Jews served with distinction in the Red Army, many highly decorated, many even reaching high rank. In Netanya, Israel, just north of Tel Aviv, a war memorial was erected honoring the Red Army for its role in defeating Nazi Germany during WWII. It is the only war memorial to the Red Army to be erected in any country not either a present or former Soviet bloc/Russian aligned country. Putin even traveled to Israel to attend the unveiling in 2012. A number of surviving Jewish Israeli Red Army veterans were there to attend, as well, some wearing their old uniforms and medals.

[@MarekDohojda]

@@TheTimdoyle I have read it, great book, should be on everyone shelf. However, if you think about it, it really showed in Spade just how truly inefficient Russians were. Yeah not caring, and millions died, but at the same time, zero care about function.

[@TheTimdoyle]

@@MarekDohojda Whilst the war effort at the start of the conflict was extremely inefficient and ineffective (probably the same for most countries) the Soviets did rally and out produced the Germans. It was known that they captured German tanks and copied elements of them. However whilst the Germans were manufacturing their armaments to precise measurements in underground factories the Soviets understood (as they always fought) that this is another war of attrition and their armaments were crude but effective. The war in Ukraine is another war of attrition. The Russians are not suffering. They have prepared for this war for over a decade. The west is now ill prepared and suffering because of it. Now with a new front in Israel the majority of munitions are leaving the US for Ukraine and Israel. The US are leaving themselves at serious disadvantage.

[@MarekDohojda]

@@TheTimdoyle Not quite sure your response in terms of OP. That said, it's all good. Russians are exceptionally inefficient and horrible at producing things. Back in the old country Russian made products were always a joke, and today is no different. Russia did outproduce Germany but it is important to note that they had Land Lease which was incredibly useful, especially because it allowed them to focus on weapons; and Germans were bombed, and attacked on all sides; while having inefficient economy themselves. Bottom line is that Ukraine showed just how bad Russia is, and how bad it's manufacture process is; the corruption, the failure , the great deal of waste, is all visible and in spotlight. That said, Ukraine was a corrupt nation before hand, was hardly a nation before hand, primarily due to what Soviet's have done to it. It is also far smaller nation in terms of people, with very weak manufacturing base. Therefore it is possible that Russia may pull this off, as Russians never cared about their own losses. Their people die? OK, So? They sure don't care. SO while it's possible that Russia may win the war of attrition they will loose the war, and will not get back their Empire, that much is certain.

[@oliverstianhugaas7493]

"Not a happy ending" That's reality.

[@samuelspiel8855]

This chick is just wrong. If Germany had stopped after Czechoslovakia, like this guy's question implies, it absolutely would have been better than the war exploding like it did IRL. In fact, we have a bunch of examples of more moderate ring-wing dictators during the actual historical war that turned out great. Franco led Spain to the "Spanish economic Miracle" and had a peaceful transition to democracy after his death. This chick is clueless and shouldn't be teaching this subject.

[@christopherkalble4373]

The German's tried to negotiate with Great Britain the placement of the Jews in British Palestine. Then in Madagascar and even allowed the Jews to leave Germany and go to America on a steam ship. All were rebuffed by the "Allies". Resulting in Hitler's promise of riding the Jews from Germany and Europe. No matter what the cost to the Jew. Churchill didn't want them. Roosevelt didn't want them.

[@leonardstadler9399]

@@samuelspiel8855 As a historian, I concur with what you say in part, I'm not sure where this woman is getting her answers from.... but I disagree with her full assessment.

[@ragnarok283]

@@samuelspiel8855 Germany didn’t start the war. The Jews did.

[@RedStarRogue]

​@@samuelspiel8855I mean yes, Franco is a legitimate example, but then again Franco didn't have a massive industrialized killing program like the Holocaust in his country. I feel the Nazis are a unique example of a dictatorship that physically couldn't transition into a less radicalized government. That's just me though.

[@flammenjc]

Very true that WW1 is the pivot point and not WW2. Further more WW2 showcased how to actually fire with firearms effectively. WW1 only showed how little we actually understood about the tactical use of firearms in modern warfare.

[@MaloPiloto]

True!

[@MrJpc1234]

The thing I find interesting/sad about WW1 is that no great generals arose to take advantage of the new forms of warfare like had happend with previous tech revolutions in war

[@roadent217]

@@MrJpc1234 _What_ new forms of warfare? Deep Trench networks? Super-heavy artillery? Machine Guns? Trucks? Tanks? Chemical agents? SMGs? Airplanes? Strategic bombers? Radio? All of those forms of warfare were used - none of them could break the trench stalemate. It's not about generals - it's about the very technology itself. It led to fundamentally static warfare. There was nothing anyone could have done.

[@roadent217]

"WW1 only showed how little we actually understood about the tactical use of firearms in modern warfare." Firearms? You mean small arms? Rifles? SMGs? They're all trivial - useful additions that increase soldier efficiency, to be sure, but they pale in weight to the role of artillery in warfare. Firearms could _never_ solve the trench warfare.

[@MrJpc1234]

@roadent217 Well those are technologies which obviously affect but are not in and of themselves forms of warfare......what I am criticising was the lack of Generals that managed to adapt to how these technologies should be used quick enough.....if the technology meant that defensive operations had an advantage so be it don't waste the number of lives they had on failed offensive operations.....this wasn't the first or last time warfare went through a technological revolution the interesting part about this one was the lack of Strategists that managed to successfully adapt to the new tech leading to levels of waste unheard of

[@williamherbert7938]

WW1 accelerated fascism and communism; it also accelerated anti-semitism, particularly in Germany.

[@sturmman100]

Boomer?

[@williamherbert7938]

@@sturmman100 what?

[@RonSilver-l8e]

The time difference was about 21 years ? ! The worldly Universe changed countless times between those two non connected events ? World War One should never have happened .

[@RonSilver-l8e]

Is it possible to be an Israelite & not a Jew ? No I am not suggesting Arabs either.

[@williamherbert7938]

@@RonSilver-l8e what’s your point?

[@mcd3379]

These are brilliant! Please make more!!!! Sara Paine is just wonderful with her intelligence and incisiveness.

[@M1tjakaramazov]

This is also the fundamental reason why the British insistence on actively blaming the Germans for WW1 is erroneous. The problem with WW1 was not that it happened, but HOW it happened; and all sides have equal fault in that. WW2 had a far greater death toll, but it didn't murder an entire generation of young men as senselessly as WW1. The fact that eminent historians like Max Hasings have gone back to aggressively calling for re-blaming the Germans is quite shocking.

[@johnpederson5873]

Nah your just incorrect, germany had multiple opportunities to stop the intensifying of ww1. 1) they gave the Austrians full support when the triple alliance pact didn’t force them to do so. 2) they invaded a neutral country in belgium which calls for others to enter the war. 3) it kept going and invaded france. A small scale conflict could of carried out between serbia and austria but german aggression prevented that.

[@karlvnshwp6407]

@@johnpederson5873what about french aggression? The french, after getting humiliated in a war they started in 1871, went on a 40 year smear campaign on Germany ensuring that they’ll be diplomatically isolated except for Austria, how is Germany standing up for his only ally any different from today’s US and Israel? What about russian aggression? They were the first to escalate the conflict by mobilizing their army and threatening war with Austria, if anything they turn the regional conflict between Austria and Serbia into a major european conflict. And also Belgium was only neutral on paper, they operated in tandem with Britain and France since the beginning violating the spirit of their permanent neutrality (unlike the Netherlands or Spain who were genuinely neutral), and Britain also had the opportunity to mediate the conflict but Lloyd George (a known germaphobe) wanted an excuse to get into the war. Now although in my opinion Austria is the real culprit of this horrific conflict, Germany had plenty to do with it’s escalation, however trying to blame the germans for the whole thing is both ludicrous and bias towards the entente

[@jordizee]

Everyone knows that ww1 started because of a duke killing an ostrich.

[@karlvnshwp6407]

@@jordizee because he was hungry

[@renaatsenechal]

There was plenty of senseless generation killing on the eastern front

[@AllanGonzalez-i3p]

General Patton once said a famous quote and later died after the war ended in Germany.

[@Ozzy4555]

How does this only have 207 likes? These videos should be viewed by ALL!

[@holyn8]

thats why its very important to make friends with your enemies after a war.

[@mikehallrealestate]

Ww1 strategy really was pure insanity

[@krisius1]

The Germans tried deporting the Jewish people, but the other countries sent them back. They had plans drawn up to ship them to Madagascar, but it became logistically impossible once the war broke out. I’m curious if they had the option to deport and displace, if they would have bothered killing people. The amount of work that went into killing and disposing of people was a tremendous effort. Housing them, feeding them, sorting them, guarding them, etc.. From an efficiency point of view, it would have been easier to load them up on ships and make them someone else’s problem. It would be (morbidly) interesting to have seen how things would have played out.

[@karlheinzvonkroemann2217]

Yes, the told to leave they weren't welcome anymore in Germany for a few reasons that are NEVER EVER discussed by these half-baked court modern court historians. I don't think there to know. About two-thirds of German Jews had migrated out of Germany to the west or to the Soviet Union by 1939. The Soviet Union was a far bigger menace to the world than MS Germany ever was.

[@ddewittfulton]

The Spanish American War, the Russo-Japanese War, and WW1 - everything in the 20th century emanated from those three conflicts.

[@leolinguini260]

I think there's one more layer that explored, post ww1 the western democracies did a terrible job of contained the nazis. They had the chance to end it early when Germany started breaking treaties. They did this in the mistaken assumption that they could arm faster than Germany did, but Germany was far more efficient at rearmament in the 2 years leading to ww2. On top of that they allowed the massive Czech armory to fall into German hands, as well as it's industrial base. There were rebellious elements in Germany at the time, ready to overthrow Hitler, but these fell in line as Hitlers diplomatic strategy started to pay off.

[@johnfoster2584]

Bankers won

[@stevencooper4422]

The Focus got what they wanted from Churchill.

[@johnfoster2584]

@theimistocles.. thanks for the intelligent response

[@jacquesshellac2099]

@@johnfoster2584 I second the motion.

[@Notlilithsbitch]

Capitalist’s and fascists won* look at which industries reign in Europe and East Asia (Germany and Japan)

[@Mike-kc5ew]

Except for bankers in Germany or Russia, right? 😉 That said, I'd say that the US won the most from the world wars. You look at the US prior to 1914, and then post 1945, and it's like an entirely different country. Now would the US production capabilities have eventually transformed the US into what it is now? It may have, but nowhere near as the accelerated time span that the world wars helped to foster.

[@Halbared]

Fatherland was a good programme that dealt on this topic.

[@Melvorgazh]

The NASA had a Sturmbann-führer as chief engineer. His name was Werner

[@MrGchiasson]

NASA buried the fact that Werner had been an SS officer.

[@Melvorgazh]

@@MrGchiasson I am not surprised at all

[@kreb12]

Better than letting the Soviets have him.

[@3baxcb]

​@kreb12 They didn't need him to take them into space, did they?

[@finnfisu]

*Wernher

[@elizabethtischler686]

WW1 was so nasty purely because there were no rules of engagement and no direction was forbidden nothing was "off the table" for consideration and was THE war to burgeon in modern warfare. SURE the civil was as well as any war or battle before it is and was nasty but without the ability for mass casualties and with such horrible effect, trench warfare and nerve gas is a nasty hellscape to be sure.

[@tomhamilton7726]

The Nat Zees did not loose WWII. The German people did. The Nat Zees merely went underground. Many moved to the US where they were esteemed. Many moved to South America.

[@reserva120]

Nazi :)

[@michaelgross7016]

there was a 4th Reich in Argentina and Paraguay etc. they kept their extreme views, but it fizzled out. they did do very very well financially and most escaped justice.

[@Brandon-fz9xk]

Man In the high castle

[@jadeolin8514]

That damn show had such promise... Ended up being a huge disappointment unfortunately.

[@user-pn3im5sm7k]

That book and definitely the show portray that world unrealistically. Truth is if these two empires continued to live they would not have conquered the world, like the US, USSR, Britain, and France already did that. These were nationalistic societies that were driven by their native blood spheres of influence; Germany for Europe, Japan for East/Southeast Asia. These two were, and by some metrics, are still the cultural and technological drivers of their respective regions. Humanity would accelerate to greater degree without the global degradation of culture and society like in our timeline - as a result of empty hypercapitalism and communism. This world would only be possible if two things did not happen: The 1914 Federal Reserve Act. And the assassination of Huey Long. If these two actions failed then we would be living decades in advance with world peace.

[@Bigpapaidadwag]

That show is very inaccurate

[@t.s.adrian8785]

A fellow student once ask our history professor, "What is the difference between fascism and communism?" The student was confused as on the surface they look so alike. The professor answered, "In fascism they line you up against the wall and shoot for the good of the state. In communism they line you up against the wall and shoot you for the good of the people."

[@cwalenta656]

I could theoretically envision a scenario where Hitler sticks it to Stalin and the Allies develop the bomb and then win with that. In that scenario both would lose, but conventionally? Yeah, 2/3 of Wehrmacht faces the Red Army so Normandy would be pretty tough if Germans not busy on Eastern Front.

[@weirdshibainu]

Without the bomb and Germany not facing the Russians, I think Normandy would have ended at the waters edge for the Allies.

[@DominionSorcerer]

@@weirdshibainu no, not really. Without Germany facing the Russians they might frankly lose even quicker than they did historically because they were utterly reliant on conquering Soviet territory to fuel their war effort.

[@weirdshibainu]

@@DominionSorcerer That's my point. Stalin detested the West..to the point he trusted Hitler and was legitimately shocked (reports of him locking himself in his room for days after the invasion) and would have supplied Hitler with everything he needed, in fact, Germany and Russia had robust trade under the Trade and Credit agreement in August of 1939

[@jeopardyfan122]

@@weirdshibainu the story of Stalin freaking out and locking himself in his room has been debunked. Stalin's War by Sean McMeekin goes over this exact point. He was actively involved and meeting with staff for countermeasures and dealing with the task at hand.

[@weirdshibainu]

@@jeopardyfan122 I don't believe you

[@7john7able]

There was a brief period after world war two when only the USA had a nuclear bomb. Winston Churchill suggested to the American's they should drop a nuclear bomb on Moscow to free Eastern Europe. The Americans refused. I think that was a mistake.

[@Musique986]

Can you please show me a quote of AH talking about “annihilating whole peoples.”

[@AP-ui7oi]

Talk is cheap. Look what he did. Are you crazy?

[@Musique986]

@@AP-ui7oi history is written by the victors, apparently the Germans kept impeccable records of everything other than that one thing. Show me the quote or shut up.

[@DelGTAGrndrs]

@@Musique986W

[@mikejones9702]

No they can’t, it doesn’t exist

[@yougeay]

​@@AP-ui7oiin wartime every side did crazy things. Look at the years between 33-38 Germany did a great job in those years

[@williamsimmons2095]

It did survive. It is now in South America, and called the WEF.

[@tijluilenspiegel6029]

Lol not gonna risk my account saying how Europe would have looked 😅

[@LvanderM]

I jusy did. LOL

[@MrGchiasson]

If all those soldiers of WWI & WWII could have gotten a glimpse of this "Twilight Zone" insane betrayal we have today...they would have pointed their guns at their leaders..to protect a common Europa brotherhood.

[@sevatar5762]

Heaven is how it would have looked

[@NB_Strikers]

@@LvanderMwhat did you say?

[@NB_Strikers]

@@sevatar5762 because everyone would be dead or because everyone would look like an inbred family from “The Hills Have Eyes”- but with more blonde hair?

[@rejean2744]

Thank you Winston, thank you Franklin.

[@jameshiler7830]

chad beard.

[@guillemedina7908]

looks like the czech president

[@nicholasgodleman7520]

@@guillemedina7908 Oh yes, he definitely looks like a typical Czech.

[@jayr7890]

To hide his weak chin lol

[@kalekkakmdkekjaakwkmdb8506]

@@nicholasgodleman7520just like how the scottish prime minister looks scottish, or how the british prime minister looks british.

[@kreb12]

Little boy questions. "What if Hitler won though?" is something you'd hear in high school social studies.

[@nikolavuksan2029]

She's missing 2 totally important inconvenient truths. Also, fascism was adopted in most non-communist European countries at that time. Especially in Romania, Hungary Croatia, Ukraine, Belarus, Lithuania, and Latvia. England, and even Canada and the United States had organically grown "Fascist" parties. During the fall of Berlin, you literally had Serbians, Croatians, Romanians, Spanish, English, and French soldiers fighting with Germans till the very end against soviet forces, because they believed in National Socialism. Facsim was literally an answer to the dangerous rise of communism. Where Christian Europeans wanted to protect their faith, assets, and families. Watch Occupy by Stew Peters, The Greatest Story Never Told, and Europa the Final Battle. Fascism is literally the most misunderstood ideology and Hitler the most misunderstood figure of the 20th century.

[@David-ns4ym]

They did survive ww2. Many escaped to Brazil and Argentina and other places. There is a town of twins in Brazil that are more than anywhere in the world. A certain doctor rumored to live there for a while

[@ooonyxxx]

They no longer govern Germany, they explicitly said the REICH not members of the NSDAP. Your "gotcha" comment is useless

[@224dot0dot0dot10]

There were Russian and Ukrainian Hiwi soldiers who worked as Trawniki concentration camp guards living in the USA after World War 2 was over : en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiwi_(volunteer)

[@thebitcher01]

Thye went massively to the US with the American governments help under false identities

[@Ifoldforweed]

you missed the U.S.A.

[@brandont2690]

And the bolsheviks came to America

[@J5858Jack]

This dudes beard is PHENOMENAL

[@markvoelker6620]

We’d have some guy like Klaus Schwab ruling the world, telling us to eat bugs and be happy.

[@garyorourke4524]

Wrong, he's one of the people ze Germans wanted rid of. Best do some digging, they pop up quite often in over reaching government control. Not quite the victims you've been told!

[@johnfoster2584]

You're living under corporate marxism so bankers won.

[@Oliver9402]

Don't forget that the wall street crash and the depression of the 30s really opened the door to these ideologies.

[@gdcapra]

This woman really is brilliant

[@RedStarRogue]

Realistically the book Fatherland is as close as we will get to that dark alternate reality.

[@Epichistory463]

Biggest what if in history

[@AlexLee-dc2vb]

based on the title and "uploaded 7 months ago" I was CERTAIN that this had been in the context of discussions about a ceasefire to allow Hamas to survive... but then I saw that it came out before October 7th

[@A_friend_of_Aristotle]

It's kind of a silly question, my respect to her for her patience. "What if" questions are typically implausible, and this one is not unique in that respect. The survival of Nazism would have meant the total destruction of the Soviet Union, the surrender or annihilation of the English. Much of Europe would have been exterminated, too...including the Spanish and Italians. Ten's of millions more would have died. Entire nations would have been...liquidated. Nazi Germany was *_doomed to fail_* because it was a totalitarian dictatorship led by a genocidal maniac. Believe it or not, at any given time, there are more people who *_love_* than *_hate._* This fact dooms the "them-or-us" ideas - like Nazism - to failure. The Soviet Union was doomed to failure because it was a totalitarian dictatorship led by homicidal and suicidal maniacs. Believe it or not, at any given time, there are more people who respect *_reason_* than those who respect *_irrationality._* This fact dooms the "do-gooder" Socialists from convincing enough young people to accept their logical absurdities. It prevents a lot of really, really dumb things from happening.

[@kevingrem1364]

the Germans requested a peace treaty over 15 x with the British (and other European powers), before the war, during the war, when they were winning the war and when they were losing the war, their objective was never to destroy England. also Spain and Italy were German allies. not sure where you are getting your perceptive from? BTW most European countries were allies with germany!

[@balazsszekely2132]

People hate to read these days just reading all your bs about ww2 and the toothbrush moustache having austrian man

[@humpteedumptee8629]

Yea when I say they would chill out and reform. I’ve never said they would chill out before the work was done. I’ve said the opposite. They the working being done ends the the ability to maintain control. Cause the control comes from a willing group. And the work is the motivator to trade freedom for security.

[@aleshandsome3705]

After 45 secs of phrasing the question...... So what's the question?

[@thedailywin537]

Agreed. The interviewer, while meaning well, does struggle with verbal overrun when attempting to ask whatever it is he actually intends to ask.

[@fikretpajalic1224]

Patel is absolutely terrible; he struggles to fully pronounce words and often swallows them as he rushes to speak, cramming too much into just a few seconds. As a result, his questions are frequently unintelligible.

[@3baxcb]

​@fikretpajalic1224 It was a terribly worded, revisionist history-filled question at best and very easy to pick apart.

[@hotmic5051]

What I find ironic is both the parties she mentioned run rampant undetected currently.... And essentially, id say, this is the actual reality of what happened without it having to happen.

[@anthonygerace8926]

There are two important points about the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany: 1) If Stalin had not chosen to be a de-facto ally of Nazi Germany from August of 1939 to June of of 1941, Germany would not have been able to initiate World War Two. 2) Once Germany invaded the Soviet Union in Operation Barbarossa in June of 1941, it was the Soviet Union that suffered the most from Nazi Germany and that inflicted most of the damage on Nazi Germany. Without the Soviet Union inflicting massive destruction on the German military, D Day would never have succeeded and might never have been attempted. So, in effect, Stalin caused the Second World War but then insured Germany's defeat in that war. By the way -- it is the opinion of some historians that it was the August, 1945 Soviet invasion of Manchuria -- more than the atomic bombs-- that convinced Japan to surrender.

[@CultureCrossed64]

The soviets couldn't even put boots on their soldiers feet. They provided bodies. A necessary thing, but not the deciding factor. And no intelligent historian believes that the Soviet invasion of a Japanese puppet caused them to surrender. Japan was preparing for a literal fight to the death. Look up "the glorious death of the 100 million"

[@jonathancummings3807]

Yes. The USSR is the most important country regarding WW2, they also benefitted the most. With that huge, incredibly powerful army they dominated all of Eastern Europe, and along with the USA replaced the British Empire in "Superpower" role. In 1938, the British Empire is huge and literally "SUPERPOWERFUL", in 1946, permanently weakened, unable to maintain control over the vast lands and peoples of the Empire, as the USA and USSR aren't going to help and instead increase their influence and hegemony over the entire World. Here's a truth no one seems to put forth, there was a moment when Humanity could have been united, but instead, the USSR on one side, and USA/Britain on the other chose to be adversaries. Together, just as they overpowered the Axis, they could have overpowered and united the world as the Axis had desired. Literally they had the forces mobilized, no one could have stood against the same troops that had just pulverized Germany and intimidated Japan into surrender. Not Civil War China, not any South America, nor any other places not still under colonial rule. Nope, they wanted enemies so became each other's enemy, since their enemies were crushed.

[@joe6142]

Very knowledgeable about history .

[@Spillers72]

Fascism did survive till 1970 in Spain but it was more like Italian fascism without the overtly racial component. Yes, i do believe nazism would have crumbled. Likely by first weakening and watering it down first.

[@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese]

Franco was a papist royalist, not a fascist

[@HighwayStar71]

Those freaky German men would have been getting down with African women by 1960.

[@icemanire5467]

I don't think fascist is the right term for Franco. I know many refer him as such he differed quite a bit from the rest.

[@StagAtLarge]

I always learn from her. She’s no lightweight regarding history, that’s for sure.

[@derekireland1460]

If you think these vile people with all the money and power simply went away... You are a special kind of nieve.

[@Kwisatz-Chaderach]

NASA and CIA : We're going to ignore this.

[@Jstebb97]

We fought the wrong enemy - George Patton.

[@netaosofakenews]

Fascist above

[@zivaradlovacki2666]

Well, you made sure fascism and nazism live on.

[@shkodranalbi]

You quote someone word for word and they blame you for what that person said. That is how it works now

[@Charles-t6r]

No we didn’t. Patton was anti-Semitic douche bag! Any cheated on his wife all the time which means he lacks character. I lost a lot of respect for him when I found that out. I also read his personal diaries. He was blaming the Jews for the concentration camps like it was their fault for letting it happen so yeah yeah that’s the type of “great” man that Patton was

[@raybar7360]

@@shkodranalbi well, ...whats the context?.....1.help the Germans and continue the "right" path .......2. "Patton said this, he was wrong in thinking this"....these types of comments are just titillating to those who have fascist , dictatorial tendencies or dreams....your "dumb" comment at least is honest ans direct. ...

[@MelvinNewcomb-m3g]

Wilson campaigned that he would keep us out of the war (WW1). We got war, federal reserve, IRS, and debt leading to the Great Depression,WPA etc, and the need for Rosevelt to push Japan and Germany into WW2, with the Belford Declaration. And the current situation.

[@mr.o8539]

End of the British Empire was the horrific cost? Not as horrific as the empire itself

[@INLIGHTOFHISTORTYANDOTHE-px7mf]

True

[@augustoliver2779]

They did survive. The evil of the past still persist today.

[@casimirgroeck]

wait what is her point here? The Brits shouldn’t have sent soldier to fight on the continent? The key to British grand strategy is to never let one power dominate the continent. How does she square that?

[@sovelissskirata8105]

She's saying they didn't commit to a large army until Much later and struggled to do it as a result of their policies. Their policy was to be a small force that tipped the scales, when they flat didn't have the numbers in WWI

[@johncullen9115]

I think she is pointing to Fishers "Baltic Strategy" to cut off the Germans from Swedish Iron Ore. Very little of this was ever implemented, but the few submarines that were sent in the Baltic were very successful. Despite Churchill's criticism of it in retrospect post WW1, his whole Norway campaign in 1940 looks like a poorly executed similar approach.

[@silencemeviolateme6076]

Use the navy to weaken them. Let them spin their wheels in trench warfare. Drawing from the colonies elevated the colonies. It gave them a military victory they were directly involved in. The US gained freedom shortly after the French and indian/7 years war. Colonies must stay dependent.

[@waichui2988]

Suppose you have another fantasy. Suppose you fantasize that you win the lottery ten times in a row.

[@claydogg234]

The interviewer was missing the inherent full on genocidal nature of Nazism vs Soviet Communism. Yes stalinism mirrored many aspects of the Nazi regime but it didn't have the grand visions and well thought out doctrine of racialized scientific antisemitism, racialized socities, and genocidal imperialism like with Nazism. Keep in mind the USSR wasn't just Stalin. The post-Stalin Soviet leaders, while corrupt and dictatorial, were not totalitarian like Stalin as communism, unlike Nazism, is not inherently totalitarian and genocidal. Communism can be genocidal ie Pol Pot (although many of Pol Pot's racial ideas went well beyond Communism) but it doesn't have the same automatic disposition towards racial conquest and genocide like Nazism. This is why I'm always a little cautious when I see Communism and Nazism brought up in the same breath and especially so when discussing WWII. I find Eastern Europeans given their harsh experiences with Communism understandably have a difficult time grasping this and often lend themselves to clumsy historical equivocations between Nazism and Communism. It's also absurd to imagine defeating Hitler and Stalin at the same time when Hitler had been primary enemy of the allies for years by that point and had now made himself an enemy of a mighty country like the USSR. What attack the enemy of your enemy as opposed to teaming up with them? That's ridiculous. They didn't even have the means for that. Besides Nazism's longterm plans were so horrific they went well beyond any evil dictator like Stalin.

[@Jake-gw9cj]

killing tens of millions of their own people isn't genocidal 😅 no way these people actually exist

[@jeopardyfan122]

The Soviet Union had liquidated 10 million people by the time WW2 kicked off, I don't want to hear whitewashing of that regime of excuses why they had to be supported.

[@tomfrombrunswick7571]

it was originally thought that the Soviet Union grew at 4-5% in the 30s. This has now been downgraded to 3.5% a year. However it appears that the real issues for the Soviet Union started to occur in the early sixties. If we look at Germany in the 30s it's growth rate was similar to the Soviets but it's rearmament program distorted the economy causing a foreign exchange crisis. This is one of the main reasons they started the war.

[@JL-XrtaMayoNoCheese]

They war was started to prevent Germany from destroying Bolshevism

[@EF-fc4du]

Europe would be in much better shape.

[@Grimloxz]

Does anyone know where I can find the full length interview?

[@SeamHead33]

WW2 was Man vs. Evil and Man lost

[@madjake3732]

Yeah, evil is is fighting defender country and Man is killing people because they have disabilities and they’re not pure Aryan

[@DominicMazoch]

The UK, and the US, should have stayed out of WW1, and then help put the pieces back together.

[@michaellynes3540]

The Third Reich did continue a little on after the May 8 surrendered. They continued until they were dissolved on May 23 de facto and then on June 5 de jure.

[@MrGchiasson]

I wonder how many nazis with faked passports & documents later infiltrated corporations, banks and companies..everywhere.. Remember the movie, 'The Odessa File'. Fiction with some truth?

[@billyccall5774]

Operation unthinkable resolves this issue.

[@shredblue8536]

World would be a better place that’s why more people are turning to fascism each year

[@dreamawake2670]

Yes. For European man and his spirit/soul not capital or consumerism- degeneration.

[@DominionSorcerer]

It probably wouldn't have been better for you, or this Dream Awake fellow.

[@brandont2690]

Mustache man was right

[@jdee8407]

They were both Socialists.

[@Whateverxo56]

If you were of Aryan origin, straight, supporter of the dictatorship, then yeah you’d probably be living a good life. But for the rest of us, we wouldn’t exist. Hundreds of millions of lives ended. The world is chaotic today but I’d still take chaos over chains. Not sure what is so alluring about not being able to express yourself and live freely . It must be some sadistic thinking. But if you want to live under a dictatorship, just go to Saudi Arabia!

[@arnbrandy]

I watched the entire podcast (great stuff BTW, Sarah Paine is really smart and didactic) and Dwarkesh asked some three times what would happen if the Third Reich didn't fall, even fantasizing a bit about the possibilities. Dude, don't. WTF haha

[@chrisahead]

Well would be interesting to see different outcome scenarios... Because in our time line human civilization has completely doomed itself and ti's too late now to escape collapse

[@uptoncriddington6939]

The great failure at the end of World War II was that of Truman who failed to threaten the Soviet leadership with nuclear weapons during the brief period when the United States was the sole nuclear power unless they agreed to withdraw from Eastern and Central Europe, and to disarm. Instead he honoured the shameful terms of the Yalta Conference, and with that destined much of Europe and indeed the developing world with the sinister Soviet system and its emulators elsewhere. Had he tackled Soviet Communism, he could then have been ready to deal with Mao’s Communist takeover of China. The world would have been much freer. Also, the Democratic Party, but other American politicians as well, supported the idea of actively seeking the further demise of the British Empire which led to great destabilisation in the Third World and the inheritance of world power status and responsibility by the United States, a country ill-suited to and ill-prepared for dealing with developing societies other than itself. The American idea that one could just export capitalism and democracy was a naive and ultimately deadly one. The whole world suffers as a consequence.

[@RobertRobinson-dy3rj]

Germany had a high standard of living

[@johnhoney657]

It was lower than Britain, and massively predicated on a government spending binge and debt.

[@NB_Strikers]

They were on borrowed time and borrowed money. The amount of financial shenanigans the Nazi’s accountants worked up to hide the massive unserviceable debt in order to deflate the interest forced the Germans to look beyond their borders.

[@NB_Strikers]

@@johnhoney657 and it’s a bit easier when they confiscate all businesses, money, and houses from their own citizens just bc they happen to be a Jew, a Gypsy, gay, from an opposition political party, or writing truth to power.

[@lyntwo]

If Poland had not stopped the invasion of Poland and the intended invasion of Germany by the Soviets at the "The Miracle on the Vistula" in August 1920 Bolshevism may have dominated Germany and left our present history far different.

[@mazs1123]

Surprised to see so many Fascist apologists in the comments.

[@DelGTAGrndrs]

It the same way with communist videos. “That wasn’t real communism” apologists.

[@Maza675]

You shouldn't be. The world is a complete shit show now

[@EIfric]

of course i know him. he's me.

[@eiavops4576]

Don’t be suprised, there’s alot of us now.

[@JEJAK5396]

I’m surprised there are still communists brave or stupid enough to reveal their idealogy.

[@azoniarnl3362]

The moment she said fascists I knew she isnt that knowledgeable.. National Socialists and Fascists are completely seperate from eachother. The Pact of Steel was not a political alliance but a diplomatic one.

[@epicphailure88]

They are different but they have a lot of similarities.

[@chrisavolare1420]

It would have been paradise

[@dontcomply3976]

LOL, for you, at best, a slave on an estate on the east peovinces of the reich

[@dontcomply3976]

LOL, for you at best, a slave on an estate in the Eastern provinces of the reich

[@goldenxboi]

Peaky Blinders showed exactly what she’s talking about

[@abelnicolaebaritone]

Get this woman and Jordan Peterson in the same room, please.

[@3baxcb]

Why disrespect her by putting her beside a word salad spewing, drug abusing narcissist who flushed away his academic career?

[@daviddavis7710]

I find Sarah Paine's contributions most interesting. However, where I depart from her views is in her summary of the great losses of WW1 being the fault of the generals. Once the trench system had been established on the Western Front there was no alternative to pounding the German positions with artillery and then sending the infantry over the top. Besides there were innovations such as the 106 fuse, wire-cutting artillery and the creeping barrage which made the attacks in the last two years of the war lees costly in mens lives than the first half of the war. If there had been an alternative to the artillery barrage followed by a frontal assault, someone would have discovered it. By 1939 tanks and ground attack aircraft had made trench warfare obsolete. They did not exist in 1914 and though they were introduced later in the war they were pretty ineffective compared to their WW2 counterparts. Where I DO agree with Sarah is that there seemed to be no coherent strategy on the part of Allied governments once Germany had been defeated.

[@s.k.6616]

Grand strategy for who? The elite class? Shouldn’t a nation have the right to determine their own future?

[@allancheesman4354]

😮 the Catholic Church hierarchy would have benefited as fascist ideology is merely the extension of the far right of the Catholic Church

[@JoeysClones]

No one tell this channel about Von Braun and Walt Disney with G.E.C. RCA and NBC..don't tell them about the post credit scenes to ww2

[@adwaitnaravane5285]

What is up with GenZ turning into Hitler youth.

[@chrisivan_yt]

Nazis 😅

[@Sully2001]

As a History teacher, it frightens me…and they’re only 6-7 years younger than me

[@Mike-mz8dl]

They are ANTIFA, BLM, and LGBTQ followers. All are being trained in universities.

[@sumitsingh2349]

​@@Sully2001 We are waking up whats so frightening in it?

[@dogman17]

The pendulum swings ....

[@lafayettemoreira4423]

In Rwanda? We know they could have tried. In Paraguay, Chile, Argentina? Well if you speak of the fuehrer, he could have survived there (argentina) protected by the german house of Lippenburg (berhard zu lippe, german king of holland).

[@JimLahey_and_Blulian]

I'd be alive. Can't say Israel would be...

[@allananderson949]

Wouldn't be an Israel to begin with

[@musthaveacamel2157]

Europe would have Moon Bases by now