Why America Failed In Afghanistan | Sarah Paine

[@KWBuck]

Thank you for exposing me to the brilliance of Sarah Paine! This educator makes her lessons so understandable. Priceless

[@erikrungemadsen2081]

Like listening to my fathers cousin. She could go on for hours on medieval writing and the origins of Scandinavian literature it was a pure joy to listen to, when we picking fruits in the orchard.

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

But why does she wear a garbage bag? 🤔

[@garyspence2128]

It's functional....were you expecting a fashion model? There's always one student who cannot pay attention to the lecture.

[@melamineflorentine8134]

She's really amazing...I run into her videos every few months and I watch them from end to end everything she says is like a new cogent description of the issues!

[@amg5656]

@@PauloAdriano-zo2ng whatever

[@limen7679]

I think she made some very interesting points, but she left out one major factor that contributes to Afghanistan's failure, debilitating levels of oppressive corruption, which is what allowed the Taliban to gain control in the first place. Corruption still threatens wealthy developed nations like the US. What chance do impoverished countries with a culture of abusive corruption have? I hear people arguing over Socialism versus Capitalism, but the thing most failed states have in common is corruption.

[@j.dunlop8295]

Absolutely, friends I know observed, police on streets extorting the same businessman three times on the same day! No economy can survive that, ask 1980s Russians? This and wage disparity, difference between rich and poor!

[@diegopena4773]

I remember this explanation from an Afghan: the taliban would extortion you on the road but they would give you a recipt to show the talibans ahead that you were already extorted, but the US backed soldiers would extortion you at every chance given

[@limen7679]

@@diegopena4773 I've never heard of US soldiers extorting locals. The high levels of corruption pre-date the US invading Afghanistan. Read Sarah Chayes, "Thieves of State". The US had plans to address corrupt Afghan politicians, but backed off because they received blowback from local officials who were either corrupt or connected to corrupt Afghan officials.The US military opted to try a purely military solution, which was doomed to failure, because it lacked support of the populace who preferred the lower levels of corruption under the Taliban.

[@diegopena4773]

@@limen7679 never said us soldiers, i said us backed soldiers, meaning the afghan soldiers of the islamic republic od afghanistan (the ones that were overthrowed). But maybe i shoud have phrased myself better

[@joythought]

Good discussion and absolutely true.

[@drhenceforth]

I love these Sarah Paine videos. Keep posting them.

[@hagestad]

she is talking nonsens. Rebuilding is easy? Really have you done it? I case of Japan and Germany it was not easy. Those people were used to build huge amounts of stuff rapidly. For example during first 6 months of invasion of Poland they build the same amount of railroads Poland has total today (in anticipation of war with Russia). They did the same in Russia in first 6 months of an invasion. None of other euro countries ever did the same. Also in Germany some main cities were destroyed rest was pretty intact just robbed by Allies. Poland, Ukraine and such - not only was there a genocide there performed by Germans and in some cases Russians as well. They also destroyed what they could not steal.

[@amg5656]

@@hagestad No, her point is very clearly that rebuilding was easier in Germany and Japan IN COMPARISON WITH Afghanistan and Iraq. You are distorting what she said.

[@AntonySimkin]

I agree with amg5656, you are distoring what she said. Easy doesn't mean "meh, easy". Drilling 2km into Earth's crust is easy compared to drilling 5km, but drilling more than 200m is already very difficult and drilling 2km involves a LOT of effort and infrastructure, but still being easy comparing to 5km. I hope you understand the example.

[@joemancini2988]

I much appreciate these bite-size pieces of Dr. Paine’s analyses. I am thrilled she is educating a generation of US Navy officers.

[@harnessriscallous7466]

She's a coward who will never have an adversarial interview in her life. The Republican version of dei.

[@namastezen3300]

*interested observers+active/peripheral participants

[@practicaliching2311]

She is leaving out the elephant in the room. That the US didn't outlaw Islam and allowed them back into the government. It is the equivalent of the US defeating Germany in 1945 then putting the Nazi's back in power. Guaranteed to fail.

[@Svensk7119]

Only for about one lifetime did Afghanistan have a united, peaceful country. The exiled king was popular with his once-subjects, but George B the II didn't want to re-establish the monarchy. Biggest mistake we made there.

[@steelcrown7130]

Absolutely right. Madeleine Albright with her snappy, glib one-liner "we don't do kings" condemned several East European countries to a future without a future. Bush just had the same attitude in Afghanistan - which has been the standard State Department line since they fluked the success of Japan - by keeping the Emperor.

[@jonathanbowers8964]

​@@steelcrown7130to be fair, most of Eastern Europe was doing fine, it is just one giant nation that still thinks it is the 18th century that is causing the current chaos. Russia would act almost exactly the same as it is currently acting if you were to restore the Romanov dynasty as Putin's regime is very much modeled after Imperial 18th century Russia. Yes Yugoslavia failed, but they have had peace for over 20 years now and are by and large doing alright. Besides that notable exception, the former communist nations of Eastern Europe who joined NATO and the EU are quite successful. I argue that while monarchy can help build the institutions necessary for Democracy, in Eastern Europe, those institutions for the most part already existed. While reform was needed to democratize those institutions, you really didn't need to do nation building in most of Eastern Europe after the Cold War.

[@lucasquintanilla1673]

Actually, the notion that he didn’t want to restore the monarchy is somewhat incorrect. After 2001 there was the consideration of restoring the monarchy, and apparently Bush was actually not opposed to the idea, and neither were a lot of afghans. The former monarch himself had said that he would accept any role that was given to him. The only reason it didn’t happen was because Pakistan was afraid that a restoration of the Afghan monarchy would hurt their interests. You can blame Pakistan not bush for that one.

[@Svensk7119]

@@lucasquintanilla1673 Okay. I just seem to remember Pr. B. was opposed. Or at least not that enthusiastic for it. You might be right.

[@lucasquintanilla1673]

@@Svensk7119 you can disagree with Bush the younger on a lot of things, but I really hate it That people question almost everything about him at this point. I have opinions that a lot of people would disagree on, but I honestly think that a lot of the problems he had wasn’t necessarily what things he did, but why he did them, and how he went about doing them. honestly, I would take George W. Bush any day over some other people in the last decade or so. On another note, one of the best things he may have done that people don’t normally think about is he helped to pass a humanitarian effort in Congress to combat aids in sub-Saharan Africa. It’s believed he may have saved millions of lives doing this.

[@siddharth-gandhi]

imma be honest - keep posting clips! generally don't have time for multi-hour podcasts in one go so small bits of it which cover one/two interesting questions is great! and i'd say keep doing it on main channel only, clips channel hard to gain traction! all in all - keep going! best podcaster i've had the pleasure of listening!

[@cdjhyoung]

I also enjoy this shorten clips. I'll admit, i seem to have the attention span of a gnat, in part because of my endless diet of You Tube videos. That said. these snippets are just enough for me to digest. Plus, I'm hearing things from her I have never been exposed to before.

[@1234TokyoJohn]

After World War II, Japan and Germany reverted to their basic cultures which were still intact. Their basic cultures were modern, educated, scientific, and industrial. It was easy to rise from the ashes. Afghanistan, on the other hand, has a tribal, medieval culture, with no real rules of law. How could you expect Afghanistan to change when the underlying culture does not change? Answer: it does not.

[@palarious]

They were also a Islamic republic rife with the most extreme violence that religion endorses. She skipped around that issue, like all polite westerners, which is also part of why we failed.

[@Withnail1969]

There is no reason for the culture to change. It works just fine, as repellent as it may seem to us.

[@youbetternotplaythatnashee898]

​@@palarious Islamic republic?? Hahahhhahaha. As if such a thing could exist. What's next, viking samurais? Vegan meathouse? You hired the local heretical druggies and you showered money on them; and the mujahideen kicked both them and you out. You humiliated your own war effort by trting to call it an "islamic republic" instead of being openly atheistic like all other republics are. Make all the excuses you want for why you failed. I know. It's really difficult for cultured, elite, "civilized", "advanced" people such as yourself to loose to a buch of men in sandals who never went to school or held a book.😢

[@hagestad]

What are you talking about? Germany today kzbin.infovMtDoEN88zY

[@publiusthefederalist6843]

This is a myth built on racism. The idea that afghans are a bunch of stupid Arabs throwing rocks at each other. Afghanistan fell because we did not aid the government. Do you know how many other countries would fall into chaos without support from western countries? The reality is that it can take decades for a country to develop. We were just not willing to provide that for them like we have for other countries like South Korea or Taiwan.

[@burtvhulberthyhbn7583]

Wow this woman really knows her stuff.

[@user_7239]

Why is that surprising?

[@FuNkYTiMeS001]

She knows nothing but she's good at propagating the picture of muslim world that fits Western narrative. Propagandist

[@TheAnthraxBiology]

She absolutely does not. she straight up said she is not an expert on the middle east and talked out her arse about it. she called iraq an undeveloped country when really it was developed and in the words of a UN report on the Gulf War was "bombed back into a pre-industrial era." She is a racist and a US state department asset, nothing more. Don't believe a word out of her mouth.

[@dksharron]

Afghanistan is a Western idea. It is actually four or five groups of people and subgroups within those groups. The average Afghani is 90% closer to a Taliban view of the world and 10% Western view of the world. It is very difficult to create a national system and very easy to destroy one, of any type. The terrain of Afghanistan makes it unconquerable. , , , , , Many knowledgeable people about the area told the US, it is impossible to change the place. . . . . No one listened.

[@dmacarthur5356]

Agreed. Two Afghanistan leaders in the past tried to implement western ideals and a strong centralized government. One was chased out into exile and the other was killed. They are tribal people who do not accept a big centralized government or western style democracy. If anyone in the State Department would have read one of the 20 or so books on the history of Afghanistan they would realize it was a project doomed from the start. Even the mighty British Army got slaughtered and chased out in the 1840s. The British learned the lesson that Afghanistan is easy to invade but impossible to hold during the second Anglo-Afghan war and got out as soon as possible after a decisive victory. Exactly what the US should have done; invade, install a strong warlord, then leave.

[@Lif-k9j]

The Pashtuns rebelled against Iran when Iran converted to Shiism cos Pashtuns are obsessed sunnis. In their rebellion they managed to steal a portion of Persian speaking cities like Herat and Mazar-e-Sharif.

[@dksharron]

@@Lif-k9j Thank you. My high school 1977-1980, in West LA was 50% Iranians. They never told me this story.

[@publiusthefederalist6843]

That’s actually not true because they had elections and the people overwhelmingly did not support Taliban backed candidates. Afghans are not actually stupid people, they just don’t have money to fight people like the Taliban

[@publiusthefederalist6843]

Like I’m pretty sure the people grabbing onto planes and falling to their death when the US was leaving didn’t support the Taliban

[@frankmcgowan3371]

This person makes way too much sense. Love listening to her.

[@albertgrant1017]

Well stated !

[@kreek22]

She wants to prosecute Russian businessmen because thinks all of them are war criminals. She sounds like a Democrat to me.

[@lastword8783]

One other thing that needs to be mentioned is that there was a huge incentive for the United States to rebuild those countries because there was a large tangible near peer adversary like the Soviet Union which they were competing with. If they didn't rebuilt those countries, Communism would've became more popular because its propaganda appeals to poor people. As an Afghan I think one of the reasons why the US failed was that the alternative that they presented to the Taliban were people that were warlords and corrupt politicians that the Taliban were popular for driving out before the US invasion. These warlords and corrupt men backed by Western armies and funds laundered the money while the occupation forces imposed those people on the country and employed increasingly harsh and brutal counterinsurgency methods. Then there is the whole other factor of Western governments assuming that western secular democracy is a universal aspiration of all people. It isn't.

[@karldehaut]

Sorry it is an universal aspiration. Your analysis about Afghanistan is incomplete but accurate. Can I add. For Germany and especially for Japan the USA has accomplished an enormous amount of sociological, historical and cultural understanding of the two countries. This was not the case in Iraq and Afghanistan, where the American administration tried to impose its own cultural point of view. This was all run by incompetent fools.

[@DSan-kl2yc]

The last thing you said might have some truth to it. But afghans were dumb if they choose oppression. If they didn't see that They didn't have to keep a secular anything. You can have a democracy with a state religion if they wanted. I'm sure the women of Afghanistan would much prefer a democracy where they had some rights with a chance to improve.

[@Waldemarvonanhalt]

IMO they should've brought the king of Afghanistan back rather than trying to play at making a parliament.

[@lucone2937]

@@DSan-kl2yc I think most men in Afghanistanian countryside and villages are very conservative and they want to keep things the way there have always been. It is easy for them to support Taliban when it comes to women's rights. The Afganistan army without active American support was nothing but a paper tiger, and they didn't have a real motivation to fight against Taliban. Even the South Vietnamese Army was more capable to fight in 1973-1975.

[@youbetternotplaythatnashee898]

​@@DSan-kl2ycafghans were dumb because "muh oppression"? Hahahhahhaha. You wish you had the purity these people have in your own life. They prevented the daughters from becoming westernized prostitutes. When you catch something you don't like in your wife's phone, or when your daughter brings to her room someone who has no respect for you, remember that these are issue an afghan man will never even have to grasp. Fix your own mess. It sinks.

[@animaxima8302]

Sarah Paine needs her own channel

[@moiseshuerta3984]

She's a hack

[@dasdrifter12]

​@@moiseshuerta3984you're braindead

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

Like Philomena Cunk? 🤔

[@victorgalloway9770]

Yes agreed. I love listening to her!

[@feonor26]

@@moiseshuerta3984 (sigh) there's always one isn't there?

[@e.a.p3174]

I remember a friend of mine who was a retired engineer living in Thailand for 6 months of the year when the war with Afghanistan started that it was a total waste of time. My friend had been in Afghanistan before the war and described the society as a 6th century mentality, very tribal, and very backward.. He was scoffing at Bush idea that you ever could turn those people into democratic societies. 24 years later my friend Graeme was proven right.

[@burtvhulberthyhbn7583]

In the military basically most moslems are thought to be "cavemen with cellphones"

[@kevinlatham5661]

neither the afghan government, army or people , basically tribes, resisted the taliban. they did not see themselves as belonging to a single country. the vietcong had the jungle and north vietnam, the taliban had the mountains and pakistan.

[@Vignesh.99]

Classic Islamists

[@or6144]

​@@kevinlatham5661 states lost cause whatever the reason may be environment or social bottom line nobody wanted you there in the first place with the exception of whoever was receiving dollars in the form of Aid or whatever.

[@ABCantonese]

Which Afghan War? 2001 or 1979?

[@rickwrites2612]

Ppl saying she doesnt mention corruption-- she is talking about Rule of Law (ie the law is applicable tonall equally, not any one is above it, the personal is largely irrelevent.) Not having it implies corruption, nepotism, tribalism, etc

[@user_7239]

Exactly.

[@insertnamehere5809]

"You have all the clocks, but we have all the time"

[@DH-vt3ql]

They can have all time they want, if you’re not investing it for the betterment of the nation, whats the point? Being oppressive and backwards thinking will keep you in the dirt. To each their own, i guess. Sucks for the little people.

[@zachdave2994]

Why would the Pentagon want to win? Forever wars are the most profitable business model

[@hagestad]

also lol @ 0:01 rooting out ideologies in Germany. Is he joking? kzbin.infovMtDoEN88zY

[@centercannothold]

@@DH-vt3ql Afghan and Iraq have not been really nation period. They were tribal society keep in check by brutal military dictatorship.

[@zipperpillow]

@@centercannothold Sargon of Akkad?

[@richgweil]

As Sarah Paine mentioned, I also think it's a matter of troops on the ground. We had hundreds of thousands of troops in Germany and Japan and a very well-built-out military and civilian logistical structures. You can't throw a few thousand troops into a country and expect to totally change it quickly.

[@daniels.3062]

We were in Afghanistan for twenty years. How much time do we give them?

[@richgweil]

@@daniels.3062 I wasn't clear. I didn't mean that I thought it would ever have changed like German and Japan did. My point (which I did not express clearly) was that I think one of the reasons that the occupation and reconstruction of Germany and Japan worked is because there was a critical mass of troops. Which we never even tried to do in Afghanistan. It was always a shoestring war, even before we took folks out to invade Iraq. We were never going to be able to foster fundamental change in Afghanistan with so few troops, even at the peak levels.

[@lontongstroong]

Valid point. This was also the same way how the Brits pacified South African Boers where there were even more British troops than the _entire_ Boer population at the time, albeit at some untold brutalities (e.g., Boer concentration camps). The problem is that how to convince the average 'Murican population to enlist en masse, as well as the cost of running such bloated army.

[@TheTibetyak]

Hearts and minds....hearts and minds.

[@GuzzarAwan]

The more troops Americans had thrown the more casualty they wud have suffered and the more enmity wud have emerged. Let me tell u why?? Its due to PAKISTAN. isi provided various Safe heavens to afghans. It was milking Money resources Mil bases to US for giving way to landlocked Afghanistan. As Taliban was created by JV of CIA ISI Against USSR. CIA did it to hurt USSR. But ISI did it to destroy afghan Nation and establish strategic hold over that nation. Why ? Bocz pakistan is very narrow elongated area. When Indian army has attacked they have crossed whole pakistan within a day. All cities and BASES r in target of smaller Indian missiles, some even under artillery range. So for Pakistani army to retreat and get safe heaven for Long war they want to make Afghanistan as their 5th Province. Pakistan also has big chunk of Afghan area which was bigger created by brits but pakistan retained it. Afghanistan don't recognise it and want that area back. After USSR defeat , war on terror US wanted to establish Afghanistan as a Nation again where terrorism doesn't thrive. But it was Against Pakistan interest. That's why US cud never win or establish Afghanistan as a Nation. The infra created to create Afghan fighters in pakistan BY CIA ISI. Kept running. It kept churning out Suicide Bomers. It kept brainwashing Afghans that US is their enemy. That's why more US wud have put men , pak wud have used that more to instigate anti US feelings in Afghanistan. US was STUCK as it can't even destroy the SHURA which were safe heaven for talibs in pakistan . Same for OSAMA BIN LADEN Where US did one operation for which Pak army got huge deal too. Afghanistan will become a nation Now. When US has left it. Social media , a core of modern atheist rational Afghan have emerged, they have started to learn abt nationalism and their history. Infact new gen Talibs themslves have become pashtun Nationalist. Earlier one hated nationalism and talked abt Ummah.

[@HavNCDy]

It also doesn’t help when Paul Bremer summarily kicked out of a job everyone that had any connection to the Baathist party and the Iraqi army. This meant that anyone that had any skills in running the state was effectively pushed towards the insurgents as after 20 years in power everyone with any administrative competence would be tainted by the previous regime. He completely ignored any lesson learnt from WW2.

[@pcopeland15]

I have always been sympathetic to this argument. That was never the case in post war Germany, Japan, or most of Europe and South Korea for that matter. We kept a functioning civil administration and industries and simply replaced leadership. These decisions were not always popular. People at the time wanted to restructure some of those countries as well.

[@mikloscsuvar6097]

This is Afghanistan, but Baath is in Iraq.

[@GreenCanvasInteriorscape]

No one noticed that for 4 months, two debacles two countries zero victories

[@dumptrump3788]

Why did the Taliban take over Afghanistan? When Russia invaded with tanks, bombers & machine guns, a Taliban fighter, with his worn out bolt action rifle, was interviewed by a TV journalist & asked him "How do you think you can win?" The Talib looked at him & said "Because, it is always the same, one day they will be gone & we will still be here."

[@99Michael]

The man was correct. America is a sprinter. In the first 100 yards, we are unbeatable, but in the marathon, we come up short and out of breath.

[@dmacarthur5356]

The USSR fought against the Mujahideen. The USSR pulled out of Afghanistan in 1989, the Taliban wasn't formed until 1994. USSR never fought against the Taliban.

[@robertdickson9319]

@@99Michael I think we went a little more than 100 yds in WW2. The North went more than 100 yds in the Civil War. Both wars ended with the main enemies crushed and lying prostrate on the ground. The main difference in the wars America has won vs those they "lost" was public enthusiasm and buy-in; the US can certainly go the distance if the public rallies behind the cause.

[@99Michael]

@@robertdickson9319 Different men in a different time. I believe the Korean War was the last great effort. Vietnam was a rock and roll war, with the majority of fighters drafted for a two-year tour of service and then back home thousands of miles from the conflict. Since Vietnam, there has been an endless series of interventions followed by a quick withdrawal of forces with little change in the nations. Lebanon, Nicaragua, the Somalian pirates, Iraq and Afghanistan. It was Egyptian president Anwar Sadat who noted the USA was short of breath and would soon lose interest.

[@Methne555]

No. The Soviets did not fight the Taliban; they fought the U.S. backed mujahideen and eventually left as it was a very unpopular war at home. The U.S. came in thinking that their mujahideen friends would welcome them with open arms. Thing is no one wins in Afghanistan. It was the site of the largest loss in British military history in the 1800s. And why, Afghan is Persian for “rebel”.

[@stc2828]

Definitely doesn’t take centuries to become developed. South Korea, Singapore, etc basically started from scratch

[@MFM230]

This is not my field but merely an opinion. I do believe that Chines culture permeated Asia and some of the Pacific Island nations. Confuscianism is highly bureaucratic, a positive quality, that allowed these nations to have the social structure to develop.

[@lontongstroong]

Post-war South Korea (and ROC) was playing an easy mode development game (with sheer backing of the entire NATO + Japan). Singapore had a head start of being already a cosmopolitan logistic center of Asian British Empire - by the time of the Malaysian Federation independence it constituted 30-40% of its GDP despite only having 10% of the federation's population. Having a _relatively_ peaceful (compared to their neighbors) colonial and post-colonial histories also helped immensely - no violent retribution and deep distrust against former colonizers and outsiders, which allowed a lot of foreign investment.

[@FelonyVideos]

You are missing the point. Centuries means a long time. BTW, Skorea has a below zero population replacement rate. Over the timespan of centuries, South Korea never even existed.

[@PauloAdriano-zo2ng]

​@@FelonyVideos And that's okay. 😮

[@OnlineEnglish-wl5rp]

Nothing to do with Chinese culture, the Koreans and Japanese are just part of a competent race

[@bobyoung1698]

I continue to be awed by the knowledge, confidence, and presentation skills of this woman.

[@gregfeldman6818]

Great Video, Thanks!

[@erikswanson5753]

These videos are really interesting. An educated person who knows what she's talking about, speaking in full sentences without resorting to profanity. Amazing!

[@dswynne]

The reason is simpler: different cultural perspectives. Germany is Western-oriented, like the rest of Europe, while Japan adapted many Western ideas during the Meiji Restoration Era. Iraq and Afghanistan have a different culture built on the tenets of Islam, which does not embrace democratic ideas.

[@MikeGrant-zt7uo]

Not to mention their tribalism

[@ivanbrezina7632]

Yes. As one journalist who spent 10 years in Afghanistan and got married there described: "They do not understand government, they despise government because government is always corrupt. The more they get something for free from government the more they despise it, because they never got anything for free. They value wide family ties over government and any family member is more respected than any government representative".

[@charsikhan9753]

What a load of BS. Typical western cluelessness about Islam. As for tribalism, there’s tribalism everywhere, your lot just like to disguise it. Democrats vs republicans, right vs left, liberals vs conservative. The ONLY reason the west failed in Afghanistan and Iraq, was they backed corrupt governments whom they could control. As long as they could control them, the west couldn’t give two shits about the normal people. Thankfully the west is in decline due to its own “civilised corruption” and the era of western dominance is coming to an end. Would be interesting to see which nation/peoples gain hegemony next

[@iche9373]

But isn’t your answer actually over-simplified, reductionist and based on cultural racism?

[@iche9373]

Attributing the failure of democracy in Afghanistan solely to culture and Islam is an oversimplification. While cultural and religious factors can certainly influence politics and governance, there are many other complex factors at play. These include historical context, foreign intervention, corruption, economic challenges, tribal dynamics, and the legacy of conflict. Understanding the full spectrum of these factors is crucial for a more comprehensive analysis of Afghanistan's democratic struggles.

[@mikestaub]

Don't overthink it. America may have failed, but the defense contractors and their investors succeeded wildly.

[@DannyPoet]

soo true

[@AhmedHussein-sp9tq]

%100 true

[@Ea-pb2tu]

Don’t think too much. It might burst your bubble.

[@adamhall5298]

This is just lazy thinking.

[@martyyoung3611]

Exactly! The CIA made billions with the opium trade and we mined all the lithium. Unfortunately, a lot of good people were killed and maimed.

[@julienotsmith7068]

Dr Paine is amazing.

[@alfavulcan4518]

I never heard of Sarah Paine before about a week ago. I am a fan now

[@MrTdg2112]

I really wish this woman's books had audio editions, read by her.

[@ceebee23]

Trying to impose a western democracy on a society that is tribal and clan based and then refusing, as the US did, to allow the Afghanis to recall their monarch immediately doomed this adventure. Just as the US failed in Iraq.

[@carlbyronrodgers]

Ms Paine’s clarity is refreshing.

[@user_7239]

Doctor Sarah Paine, PhD.

[@greggpaul8053]

I'm so glad I found these clips from Sarah Paine, what a treasure!

[@peterl5804]

The Allies were well prepared for rebuilding German democratic institutions after WW2, largely aided by exiled Germans who had helped them throughout the war.

[@jonathanbowers8964]

Yeah. Both Germany and Japan had past experiences with democratic institutions and also had centuries of strong civic institutions (courts, civil service, police forces, etc.) and nation building that made the transition back to Liberal Democracy relatively easy. This is much harder in a society without a strong national (or even regional) identity. Where "rule of law" has often meant that the powerful crush the weak. While Iraq at least had some institutions from Hussein's rule (although kicking out all of the old bureaucrats under the guise of "de-baathification" really undermined those institutions), Afghanistan had not been a stable nation since the 1970s and even then that national identity was tenuous at best.

[@jdestefa1]

Excellent perspective on these difficult subjects.

[@BobfromSydney]

I think Iraq never having a developed state is debatable, in the main cities they had an education system and middle class, before Saddam invaded Kuwait. But the occupation forces did not have effective plans for how to establish a non-volatile political structure and engage the necessary stakeholders in the governance of the country. I think the rest of what she said makes very good sense.

[@Username9182736451]

I agree. Baghdad had reliable electricity, and was at least partially developed. They do have groups that hate it each other. The problem is America thinks everybody is Germany or Japan and we just need new leaders and everything will be great. But then we break it even worse, and now we own it.

[@FormerPessitheRobberfan]

This video was about Afghanistan. Not Iraq.

[@BobfromSydney]

@@FormerPessitheRobberfan She goes into discussion about Iraq as well if you actually watch the full video...

[@paulmcgrath552]

Mideast countries like Iran and Afghanistan are basically British Administrative Zones left over from the 19th & 20th century colonial eras. They have arbitrary borders drawn up on maps with little regard for who lived there or the politics involved.

[@1furious]

Not one word of that actually applies to Afghanistan. They were never a colony and their borders are the result of the conquests by Afghan empires.

[@GCarty80]

One big reason why the lands of the former Arab caliphates (roughly the lands from Morocco to Pakistan inclusive) are so screwed up is because of the custom of marrying one's father's-brother's-daughter: the Arabic language even has a special phrase "bint al-'amm" to describe such a preferred wife. This custom is believed to have originated in the Levant about a century before the birth of Muhammad, but was spread over a wide area by the 7th-century Muslim conquests. This type of cousin marriage isn't just genetically harmful (and more so than the globally more common mother's-brother's-daughter variety of cousin marriage) but also splinters society into self-contained clans that hinder nation-building. It is notable (for example) that most of the personnel of Saddam Hussein's regime in Iraq were drawn from his own clan from the city of Tikrit. And one of the reasons why fundamentalist religion is so popular in these territories, is because religion is one of the few forces that can transcend clan loyalties.

[@FormerPessitheRobberfan]

Yeah. This clan ordering of society used to permeate Europe and cause roughly the same problems. Until the premier religious institution, The Catholic Church outlawed cousing marriage and marrying your cousin stayed a discouraged practice throughout Europe even after the split in Christianity.

[@GCarty80]

@@FormerPessitheRobberfan I strongly expect that surnames were introduced throughout most of Europe as part of the effort to combat cousin marriage.

[@triplexlongueuil6106]

I like that this video wasn’t edited as much as the others. It’s good to hear everything the speaker has to say sometimes.

[@oldhillbillybuckkowalski]

I think the biggest reasons for the difference in how the occupations of the Axis powers and the occupations of Afghanistan and Iraq are largely due to cultural and ethnic causes. While not every German was a Nazi they were all Germans, and with a relatively small number of exceptions were tired of the war, realized they had lost, realized that cooperation with the Allied occupation forces was in the best interest of their nation, and that what was in the best interest of their nation would also be in the best interest of themselves and their descendants. Japanese culture revolved around a view of their Emporor as a Deity to whom obedience was ingrained. Japanese culture also has historically frowned upon acting or speaking in a manner that calls attention to oneself as it is considered boastful and rude. So if your society is told by the Emperor who is viewed as a Diety and must be obeyed, that they must not fight against the Americans who are going to occupy, and that society will probably reject anybody trying to instigate a resistance because anybody trying to instigate a resistance is behaving in a manner that calls attention onto themselves then it's not likely that many people are going to be eager to try resisting the Americans. In Afghanistan and Iraq however the societal structures are not as homogenous. Loyalties are based on tribal, then ethnic, and then possibly nationalist lines with religious faith playing a varying role as one tribal group may be more or less devout than another or of a different sect. Both Iraq and Afghanistan are populated by tribal clans who have alliances and fewds with other tribal clans. So if your tribal clan has a longstanding grievance against a tribal clan that seems to be cooperating with the occupation forces you will most likely find yourself resisting them. Add to that a religious component that calls the occupation of "The Holy Lands" as a call to Jihad, and especially in Afghanistan a culture that has been at war for 40 years continuously and a history of resisting Empires attempting to occupy their lands and It would have been an absolute shock to me if they hadn't resisted. Yes, in both Iraq and Afghanistan when the regimes in charge were toppled (or partially toppled in Afghanistan) the people were initially grateful, their oppressive nature made those regimes unpopular. But in both nations a small number of people loyal to the old regimes lashed out. They were in both nations then joined by foreign fighters that met the call for Jihad. The Jihadists also knew that as long as most of the population supports and cooperates with the occupatoon forces the Jihad will not succeed and the way to end that support and cooperation is to use violence against the population to create chaos and instability. That chaos and instability will quickly be blamed upon the occupying forces regardless of who is committing the violence that causes it because the population is led to believe if the occupiers leave the violence will end and since they aren't leaving they are responsible for the continuing violence. In Germany and Japan the occupations brought order and peace. Without anyone standing to resist that order, with no foreign influence coming in to agitate against it, and a homogenous culture based on a society built on order they were ot likely to resist occupation forces that were going to rebiild them. Iraq and Afghanistan, having heterogeneous cultures and a society built on violence were all but certain to be ready and willing to destroy themselves resisting the occupation forces.

[@HavNCDy]

It also helped that in both Germany and Japan you had the spectre of the Soviets looming over their waiting for an opportunity to swoop in

[@pcopeland15]

Or at least that was what we believed. And true also.

[@Hawk619]

@@pcopeland15 There were communists with direct ties with the Soviets within Japan attempting to take advantage of the postwar chaos. They were shut down in order for a a market-oriented democracy to take root. A great book to read is called, "Embracing Defeat: Japan in the Wake of World War II. Different from the German postwar experience because America (MacArthur) called all the shots.

[@pcopeland15]

@@Hawk619 I don't disagree.

[@garyguyton7373]

"Fixing" Afghanistan would have required a generational occupation, total US control of all institutions of government. When Afghani kids had grown up with a western education, inculcating a sense of nation, then, after two or three generations at least, success might have been possible, IMHO. Given the different ethnicities in the "country", I think something along the lines of the Swiss Confederation would be necessary, We just weren't willing to pay the price.

[@PMMagro]

Afganistan was a very well know laust cause. When the Talibans offered peace talks early and the US said no it was game over. This was now for them "until the end" which for the Taliban/Afganuistan is litteral. She is very right about needing existing institutions to build on though. Removing them in Iraq was another ... not to bright example :)

[@anthonygerace8926]

She is brilliant. I hadn't heard of her before a couple of weeks ago,

[@CascadiaCalvert]

I really enjoy her dissertations on current events, thanks for posting these.

[@Димитрије-ч4б]

Iraq absolutely has and had a sense of nationhood and nationality. Conflating Afghan and Iraq as "the same type of place" is insanely ignorant.

[@kabirkumar5815]

America

[@philipmann5317]

iraq is still clan-based, just like afghanistan. All arab countries are like that, and that's why they'll never get anywhere.

[@bluetown2017]

Kurds voted to become independent just a couple years ago. So much for sense of nationality.

[@Brotherken1234]

It's NOT "ignorant". What she said is true. Please do some more research. 💡

[@strigoiu13]

we are sorry we do not raise up to your FSB level troll

[@michaelk5825]

Always appreciate everything Sarah Paine says. Great insight!

[@ZzaphodD]

A good analysis

[@Tanker4202]

I've listened to this woman a number of times, and her view of history is astounding. She is well worth listening to, agree or disagree.

[@jhwheuer]

Afghanistan isn’t a country, it’s lines on a map.

[@dhrichardson5798]

Never heard of Sarah Paine before I stumbled on this but will be checking her out. Great interview.

[@ianshaver8954]

The brutal truth is that the fundamental components of what make an effective fascist empire, such a strong sense of country, and the fundamental components of what make up a thriving capitalist democracy are very similar.

[@crhu319]

A distinction without a difference.

[@darklord220]

Empire existed long before fascism or Democracy.

[@ace448]

The US also had a FAR larger occupation force in both Japan and Germany. The US only ever had 100K soldiers in Afghanistan and 160K troops. In the occupied nations post world war 2 you were looking at millions in occupation. Furthermore both the Taliban and Saddam Regime never surrendered. All the Axis nations surrendered, turning over most of their arms and personnel.

[@jonathanjacob5453]

3:47 “I am no expert on this part of the world”. The should have been the beginning and end of her answer. The blind leading the blind.

[@big8611]

20 years Afghanistan and Iraq were the top foreign policy topic in USA and she managed not to learn anything. Not blaming here none of her colleagues did

[@jenshappel2209]

Sarah Paine is such a clear thinker and can explain it in easy words. Great. Great Channel, too.

[@natedogg890]

My cousin did two combat tours in Kandahar province with the Canadian Forces, he told me he knew within 3 weeks of his first tour that NATO would never be able to win this conflict or succed in any "Nation Building". His squad "liberated" a village from the Taliban, and he gave a bottle of clean water to one of the village kids because they were all malnourished and had no working well. This 10 year old kid opened the bottle of water, stared right into my cousin's eyes and poured the bottle out into the dirt, and he didn't blink ONCE They don't want western democracy, they don't want liberal values, they don't want McDonalds or Uber. Man for man, they are stronger than us, more determined than us, and, honestly, care about their freedom and way of life more than we care about ours. We were never going to win, my cousin's friends, thousands of NATO troops died for nothing, and you are a fool if you think otherwise. How about we just live our lives and stop trying to police the world?

[@frankmueller25]

This woman is very enlightening.

[@RoosterFloyd]

The west sending armies to the middle east has been notoriously successful in the past. What did we do wrong this time? Well, at least our withdrawal was very green. Not only did we pollute less by leaving all our advanced weaponry but we also saved countless greenbacks that would have had to be spent on shipping. Besides, those guys seemed really happy to get all that stuff. Can you really say we failed? Is giving a smile to countless people a failure? That's what I call helping your fellow man.

[@jgw9990]

In the past western armies would just kill everyone. Insurgency depends on the invader valuing the lives of civilians and thus holds back, allowing them to hide in civilian populations. No such weakness existed in pre WW2 invasions. The British put down an Iraqi insurrection in the 1930s by shelling every rebelling settlement until they surrendered.

[@joythought]

Irony at its most cynical and accurate.

[@barbarapaige4587]

This woman is so brilliant, and explains things so well. Patel also asks good questions, and I learn so much from these videos.

[@jacobdarling1524]

I think also a big factor was the length of the conflict and who started it. Japan attacked us first and Germany declared war on us. Then the war dragged on for years and got millions of their people killed. It really gave those regimes ample opportunity to discredit themselves in the eyes of their own citizens. By the end of the war a peaceful occupation and help rebuilding into a democratic state must have been like a dream. With Iraq and Afghanistan it was the total opposite. The average citizen just woke up to find American bombs falling on them while having little to no understanding of why. The average person this time had much more will and cause to resist the occupation. Our own corruption and embezzlement among military and political leaders is also to blame, no doubt.

[@LeftysLefty]

Ecxcellent Idea and execution of your Channel. I def will be back!

[@carrdoug99]

Great analysis by this woman. The sad truth is that America didn't fail in Afghanistan. We provided the Afghans with a nearly 20 year window of safety to create a nation opposed to the beliefs of the Taliban. The Afghans failed to create a strong coalition in favor of that change. The US was a ruling entity in Germany 11 years, and in Japan, 7 years.

[@opdator84]

US still rules germany and japan . The foreign policy of these nations are basically slavery to America

[@tauhidershadKUFNAFLORAN]

😂😂😂

[@sieteocho]

Alaexander the Great couldn't The British couldn't tame Afghanistan. The Soviets tried to invade Afghanistan and that was the beginning of the end of the USSR. And the Americans fancied their chances in Afghanistan? I know they had to do something after 9/11, but they went in cos they were dumb as shit. They failed, because they made a dumb move to go in.

[@carrdoug99]

@sieteocho your mistake is your assumption that America's mission was to "conquer" Afghanistan. America succeeded at both of its initial missions. Send a message to the Taliban, and hunt down Osama bin laden. Check on both counts. The mistake American leadership made was thinking America somehow "broke" Afghanistan and that they had any responsibility to fix it.

[@pcopeland15]

Too much money and not enough respect for civil society? Well intended grandiosity?

[@maxl8012]

She is awesome. Intelligent, precise, straight to the point. Love her!

[@kennychad2821]

America didn't fail in Afghanistan, we walked away. Democracy has to he earned it cannot be given to a people, they have to want it and fight for it, and they tried. We gave them a 20 year window of opportunity to prosper and grow into a democracy, but it just wasn't enough time and money. I for one am glad we left, we should have left long ago after the Taliban fell. "Nation building" can only work in certain regions, with certain people. Europe and Japan yes. Middle East, Central Asia, Africa, obviously not.

[@mrq6270]

Yeah, you’re probably right. But the US didn’t want to look like it would go in, bust up the place and leave behind a mess. But they were far too optimistic about what could be done.

[@maxpower7130]

Pretty much similar to what happened in Vietnam. Technically , we didn't lose , we withdrew .

[@kennychad2821]

@@maxpower7130 Technically, I'd say we lost Vietnam. We were pushed back to the capital of Saigon by opposing military forces, then had a chaotic evacuation from the US Embassy. In Afghanistan, we retracted our forces by choice over time, and controlled the main airport also for an extended period of time. At the end of Afghanistan our forces were still flying around picking up Americans and allies, to point the Taliban did not even engage us in country or in the capitol of Kabul. We could not do that at the end of Vietnam and we were heavily engaged in Saigon by the North Vietnamese troops and Vietcong forces. I feel we lost that one, so do my two uncles who each did two tours there. In Afghanistan, we walked away by choice, because we could do so. The Afghanis weren't ready for a "democracy," far from it, where the South Vietnamese kind of already had one in place. Idk, my 2 cents on it.

[@iche9373]

Sorry, Sir. But your explanation why some nations failed is cultural racist. Don’t you think your answer is oversimplificated?

[@kennychad2821]

@@iche9373 Typical, make it about me and not the topic at hand. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and don't be sorry.

[@dominicpacoe5439]

She’s so great. Love these videos.

[@joythought]

Sarah Paine is brilliant but I disagree with her broad statement that Iraq had never been developed. Back in the 1960s the only place you could be a doctor outside of the UK and then step into the UK and immediately begin practice was Iraq. Why? Because the Iraqi medical training was first rate. Saddam Hussein did terrible things to his country. The wars between Iraq and Iran word disastrous for Iraq. But even when the Americans went in the second time there were institutions. The Americans chose to ignore those institutions because they did not want to work with the Saddam Hussein regime. They didn't want to work with his army. But they absolutely should have done so. Not doing so turned many of the officers and soldiers into an insurgency. So the Americans delegitimize themselves essentially right from the start by not finding a way to work with the structures that were there to build something back. They were arrogant. They trust up men and put bags over their heads and then treated them despicably. They fail to understand the culture. They failed to respect the religion. They didn't understand the differences between the Shiite and Sunni groups. They didn't work effectively with the Kurds. America committed so many failures in policy and leadership right from the beginning of that invasion which set them up for long-term failure no matter what good work they did after that. The west is still paying the moral price for the failures of the invasion of Iraq. George Bush senior had done so well to not try to do regime change but simply to help liberate Kuwait from the Iraqi invasion. His son George W bush was a fool to trust Rumsfeld and Cheney. Today many do not trust American foreign policy because of the Iraq invasion. Ukraine is suffering from a lack of us support despite them being a perfect example similar to Kuwait of an ally needing help and I think that is largely because people don't trust the American foreign policy to do more than cause more problems. Almost 5 million Ukrainians live under occupation in terrible circumstances and under threat of torture because the Americans went into Iraq and created a complete mess. We can also blame Biden's terrible exit from Afghanistan. It is ironic that Biden has armed the taliban' better than his armed Ukraine in terms of some vehicle types. Anyway, rant over.

[@ExaltedHermit]

I watched the whole interview, she sneaks in some subtle lies like that here and there. Basically in every topic that can cast the US in a bad light she invents some embellishment. This is likely the skill she developed on her job, having to converse with "us patriot" nutheads all the time. This is unbecoming of a scientist though.

[@crhu319]

You are correct about why the US public can't trust the US military to do any good where it conquers or to create any lasting solution. You are an idiot if you think the people under worse torture, forced conscription or ethnic cleansing are the ones under Russia.

[@caeruleusvm7621]

I have no doubt that Biden's administration made some mistakes, but as an outsider it is very clear to me that the whole disaster was set up by Trump, who was clueless about what was involved. He wanted only glory for himself, and had no idea who or what he was dealing with. I'm certain he ignored the counsel of many professionals in the military and in his own government. To lay the major blame at Biden's feet is ridiculous.

[@yousifD_L]

Thank you! I absolutely hate the pretentious comments she made about Iraq and even Afghanistan. Remember that communist Afghanistan survived longer than the USSR itself? Yes, it’s possible to bring democracy even to Afghanistan if the USA had put in the effort like the Soviets did. As for Iraq-I am Iraqi. Many people don’t remember or know this, but the USA literally handed power to an Iranian agent in Iraq (Ahmed Chalabi) while allowing their soldiers to commit acts of torture with no consequences (Abu Ghraib). Every time I learn more about the USA’s invasion of Iraq, it’s just heartbreaking. The USA let Iran take control of Iraq when Iraq was their chance to prove they were morally superior to authoritarian governments! But no-they completely fuck it up.

[@geraldfreibrun3041]

@@yousifD_Ldo you think us actions were malicious? Or simply incompetent?

[@aalvarado280]

Love to listen to her, clear thinking.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

Also, Middle East scholars state that Islam is a world-domination political and military movement that the West incorrectly views as the 'religion of peace'. The West does so to excuse itself for having exorcised the religion of Christianity, which it views as an impediment to hedonism and self-worship, not understanding that Islam is many times worse to live under. To these scholars, the disconnect between what the West thinks Islam is and what it actually is is both horrifying and unbridgeable.

[@mrq6270]

Islam is neither a religion “of peace” or of “world domination”. Religion is always about how to worship God. What the followers of any religion do after the fact is a whole different story. If you look at the history of the Christian world, from the crusades to colonialism, then you would have to conclude that Christianity is a religion of conquest and world domination. Neither the Quran or the teachings of Muhammad call for the conquest of anyone or anything other than your own sinful desires. “Middle East scholars” who paint Islam as a religion of aggression are only displaying their own biases. I assure you that there are just as many “Middle East scholars” who would disagree.

[@ryleighloughty3307]

@@mrq6270 As the pagan West flushes out Christian values and institutions and embraces Islam, it is collapsing at a rate that is both alarming and unrecoverable.

[@Aksarallah]

@@mrq6270 Islam requires there to be no divided nations among muslims but one single Nation with a single Ruler. Nationalism, democracy etc are anti-islamic. There are simply ideas made by ancient ignorant ones who had no knowledge of unity through God.

[@groundzero5708]

@@mrq6270 lol look at afghansitan

[@mrq6270]

@@groundzero5708 yes, look at Afghanistan. Perfect example of what I mean. Take for example how they are opposed to educating girls. There’s nothing Islamic about that. That comes from their own deep rooted misogyny. In fact prophet Muhammad promoted education for all. Like I said, it’s not the religion, it’s what people do with the religion. Using Afghanistan to represent Islam is like using the Westboro Baptist Church to represent Christianity.

[@DuckyQSimmons]

Dr Paine has an extraordinary wealth of fascinating information. Thank you!

[@jeffreywilliams7028]

Dr. Paine listed important reasons as to why our efforts in Afghanistan failed but I cannot help but wonder how we could have done better too. I felt that a New Deal style infrastructure &/or mass hiring of the population could have solved a lot of our problems in Afghanistan. For example: Afghanistan's population is 40 million. What if the occupation authority direct hired 5 million of that population, for a guaranteed 36 months, for a good not great wage. To start you put these people to work building infrastructure, manually if needed just to keep them busy. As you get more organized, you offer members of this labor pool other opportunities like joining the army, technical training, and basic primary education for others. If you keep this system going for the length of a 20yr occupation I image that something good & lasting would have grown out of it. If these efforts are focused in and around the cities the local economies in those areas would be stimulated. In the short to medium term, this would have drawn in young men from the countryside looking for well-paid work. These young men would be working in the cities instead of fighting in the countryside. Some of the money would have been sent home to the villages, which would have improved the lives of the people in the countryside. The tribal leaders would be less likely to take action to upset a bottom-up benefit.

[@strigoiu13]

there is nothing you can do in XXI-th century with a massive illiterate population...and no afghan population really, just a bunch of different tribes and local chiefs controlling different areas with no submission or connection to the central government...

[@jgw9990]

​@strigoiu13 the best way to unite Afghanistan is religious fanaticism, which the Taleban monopolised. Honestly the best Western strategy mightve been to go the opposite way by divide and rule. Get all the clans infighting with each other to such a degree that the Taleban cannot establish control.

[@atlanticrf]

You assume that these young would rather work than prance around with AK-47's

[@PaulsBees]

I really enjoy listening to her speak. She's an excellent communicator and storyteller.

[@hjvdb6829]

Think religion plays a big role too

[@backstabber3537]

pretty much

[@Lilchina-kh3tf]

Absolutely. I watched the entire podcast and she didn't really mention religion.

[@garyaraoz4574]

I can listen to her for hours! She is well informed.

[@rationalpear1816]

So basically we the west didn’t impose western civilization. They had lots of suffering from war, but that’s not enough to turn away from war. A constitution should have been imposed upon them. There should have been an national conscription which mixed the tribes across the “nation”. The rule of law should have been impose. No more religious courts. Go after the culture of corruption. But alas, the western world is so uncertain about their civilizational superiority (in terms of human flourishing) that they couldn’t do what was best for Afghanistan. And now the women suffer, and the men too in other ways.

[@mrq6270]

I really don’t think it would’ve worked. It’s a big country with a widely dispersed population in difficult terrain. Trying to root out the corruption would be like playing ping pong against multiple opponents each with their own table. You’d never be able to run from table to table fast enough. The problem with that level of corruption is that when you replace the guy who gets caught with his hand in the cookie jar, the next guy just thinks it’s his turn to grab as many cookies as he can. Especially since there are people who will want to get rid of you if you’re NOT corrupt.

[@karldehaut]

For Iraq you're absolutely wromg. Iraq have a constitution who can have been changed. Nope. Iraq was a nation... the US brought in its baggage “Iraqi allies” who looted the national museums while the oil ministry was secured. Iraq was a secular country and Iraqis considered themselves Iraqi. It was the Americans who, under the influence of the White House evangelists, imposed the mention of religious affiliation on the new identity cards... In fact, it was the Americans who introduced tribalism through complete ignorance of sociology, anthropology, Iraqi culture. Do you know that one of the best books on Japanese culture was written during World War II for American army officers. For Iraq, nothing, no American academic specializing in Iraqi society, literature, culture, history was consulted. 0, Nada, nothing. Le us pray and God will bring democracy in Irak🤦‍♂️ This happens when the self-confident West forgets its own critical approach based on data and expertise.

[@lauterunvollkommenheit4344]

Just one important correction to 2:19 ("the Imperial Japanese Army had so disgraced itself that their strategy had led to the firebombing of the home Islands"): the plans for “general incendiary attacks to burn up the wood and paper structures of the densely populated Japanese cities”, as Chief of Staff General George C. Marshall put it, were started to be prepared before Pearl Harbor. See "The Pacific War" by John Costello.

[@MiguelGomezMountainRunner]

America didn’t fail in Afghanistan, the Afghan people failed in Afghanistan by not rejecting the Taliban and defending their own country. We gave them everything they needed, they just chose not to use it.

[@Sagar-vv9gd]

No one likes colonial forces in their territory.

[@Evemeister12]

Because the taliban were a persistent and effective guerilla army, and the USA was unable to impose its will on an independently minded people.

[@sH-ed5yf]

Independend minded people. You mean radical idlamists who now basicly established a dystopian khalifat with mass excecutions and literly no freedoms for woman at all

[@BBC42618]

I would have to mention the ideology differences between our enemies as the most important factor. The Germans and Japanese were completely genocidal and imperialistic trying to invade and conquer other countries because they believed they were superior. The Afganistan fighters were protecting their lands and believe they are holy fighters withstanding against an unholy imperialist empire trying to invade them. It's basically the same as what happened in Vietnam. They see the US military as conquerors trying to control their country and resources. You would fight like hell too if China or Russia invaded the USA.

[@joythought]

Yes, Afghanistan has been deadly ground for many empires

[@bertiballermann5812]

Why did Afghanistan then give home to the people who went out to destroy America and the Western world? Why is Afghanistan home to the largest producers of opium which is sold to the whole world then? If they are, as you say, just defending themselves against invaders, they should stop giving others good reasons to invade and punish them for their deeds.

[@wandaholmes7125]

The people of Afghanistan is being left out. They didn't even try to fight for their own future.

[@laughinggiraffe9176]

They fought for their future, but their future is tribal identity and Islam.

[@quattordicimontenapoleone3113]

For Afghanistan to have had any chance of success, the US should've armed and trained the women. They were the ones who had something to lose and something to fight for.

[@joythought]

If only it was that simple. You must work with the existing institutions and incentivise them to embed the changes you hope to see but don't push past the point where a resistance gains power. That isn't something America knows how to do. America is transactional and has a short timeframe to get changes made. Not going to work out if you don't stick around for 100+ years.

[@atlanticrf]

Woman do not fight, only in Hollywood movies.

[@Darksnider05]

@@atlanticrf Kurdish warfighters.

[@Aksarallah]

@@Darksnider05 barely 1% and they are losing cause they brought in women, now their population is also declining cause women are dying instead of giving birth

[@opdator84]

The women of afghanistan love islam unlike the fake women of America and west where they can’t even define a women

[@DennisMSulliva]

I remember saying that factions in Iraq , and Afghanistan need to learn to accept electoral defeat' I never thought that would be a big issue in America..

[@jasonscott5791]

It isn't. In almost every election there are a few people who deny the validity of the results, but most people move on with their lives. It's been a very long time since election results have created an existential threat in the US.

[@DennisMSulliva]

@@jasonscott5791 Trump and his fans won't accept the reality that he lost the last election.

[@williamlloyd3769]

Tribalism at its best.

[@jlt759]

My take on her talk..don't be an a**hole state join the world-base order and MAKE MONEY

[@diegomagellan]

Mmmhmm

[@opdator84]

Join the zionist bankers empire ?

[@sogerc1]

I've never really thought of this before, it is indeed easier rebuild buildings than institutions.

[@joekerr8037]

Hindsight is 20/20. I rather listened to the late Lee Kuan Yew. He was spot on when he predicted about US bringing democrazy to the cave men !

[@tabithan2978]

She is excellent. 🙏🏼

[@cameltanker1286]

The Afghanis thought of the U.S. as conquers. However, the U.S. did not act like conquers and that was the mistake.

[@Mr.MaWe.]

I could just listen to her for hours. Greetings from germany.

[@BallyBoy95]

Got to say, I didn't take Sarah CM Paine for a politician. Few claims of hers in this clip that I'd like to counter: 1) "Iraq and Afghanistan have never been developed countries" - depends on the era. Many countries that are not developed today, may have been considered developed countries at some point in their history. In the case of Iraq, Iraq would satisfy the criteria of developed if we were looking at the days of the Abbasid Caliphate (see the 'Round City'), where they would have been the most developed country on the planet from the sound of it. Perhaps she means to say industrialised instead, which of course Iraq could not be, as the steam engine was only invented in 1698 by Thomas Savery in England. Every industrialised nation had to learn the value of industrialisation the hard way, because of the English. Indians and Irish would understand this better than most. 2) "Russia should come join Europe and the rest of the rules-based order" - this part, I'm convinced she does understand. Russia did join the rules-based order, and you guys were very happy with them. Until Russia proposed to setup their own EU army and union (between France, Germany and Russia), leaving out the US, after the EU were all disgusted with the US Invasion of Iraq. The American elite were furious beyond belief, and did a "no, you!" and have flipped the table. Russia is now being ex-communicated from the EU, a US-led effort. And of course they're going to join Asia (via SCO and BRICS). The EU is the biggest loser in all this. The US elite are just being wreckless.

[@MrYarik04]

Where did you have your education ob the matter, may I ask? I rarely see such good of an understanding of why things are what they are on the Western part of the Internet, I wonder how you came to those conclusions. Even here in Russia not many people know about the EU army proposal

[@gregfeldman6818]

Interesting. Looking forward to studying this more. Thanks !

[@strigoiu13]

1.iraq is an invented british/french country made from their pens to appease their interests. 100 years laters, iraq is the same failed country imagined by their founders, the brits and the french. there were no iraqis then and even today they they did not progress on that, they say "we are from iraq", usually you will not get "we are iraqis". 2. is utter nonsense, so basically you have just said to us "I am a FSB paid troll" :)

[@313gazi]

She said the truth in one sentence, I don't know much about those countries. When US and its agencies knew shit all about Afghanistan or Iraq why invade and tried to change the society, let them grow naturally? It is all about Hubris and imperialism. The failure lies also in empirical overstretch, fighting two wars at the same time. These failures have put an end any future intervention definitely in case of Afghanistan. American were advised on the time by very reliable allies that do not bother to change the society, you are not ideologically driven like soviets, they failed too. 19th century British were hardly defeated anywhere but in Afghanistan. However, American thinking actually believed in their exceptionalism. So after twenty years and trillion dollars down, they left. It is extremely stupid to compare occupation of Germany and Japan in ww2 to Afghanistan and Iraq.

[@oaktowndaddyg]

She’s living in the past trapped by nostalgia for our last “good war.” I know. I served as a medical corpsman in Vietnam. Those days are long gone. We no longer are the military empire we were back in the Second World War. She’s a neocon ideologue with a rigid, myopic view, clueless to how much the world has changed in the intervening decades since the end of the Second World War.

[@MseeBMe]

I never get tired of listening to her.

[@ddc163264]

She left out a major issue. Beyond corruption, which all places have to different degrees, The European countries had a Judaeo-Christian basis to work from. Japan had started one but mostly had a code of HONOR to follow. Afghanistan and Iran and Iraq have NONE of those things to build from. They're still fighting a war within themselves over who's the true Muslims as well as tribal fighting. On top of the fact that these places pride themselves on always fighting. They've NEVER had a peaceful century. What makes ANYBODY think that will ever change?

[@rogerioprabello2536]

Amazingly interesting lady. Clear thinking.

[@DannyPoet]

Germany & Japan rebuild .. was not just structural. hospitals and healthcare was built into an industrial rebuild. Iraq could have been given that.. but I get the feeling the Bush Jr was not interested in things like that .. just the oil. Good point about the inner tribal problems tho. Afghanistan could have been sooo much better resolved tho.. but the problem with the Taliban & huge corruption over there was never resolved.

[@lotcam4046]

Huge corruption problem has been solved under the Taliban, unlike the air dropped govt of US which was corrupt to the extent to write about ghost soldiers

In fact. Harry Truman, a man who killed more people in a matter of seconds than anyone in the history of the human race, and not to mention every American president after Truman, from the Korean War to Vietnam to the first and second Wars in Iraq, Somalia, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria. I don't think that the United States has had a single decade in it's history when it wasn't slaughtering some people somewhere in the world. Put that in American Sarah Paine, Professor of History.

[@sarthakrastogi8622]

Such a typical American propaganda. If you say Afghanistan was not developed at that point so do India. As India has grown that much Afghanistan would have also been. Your intent should be to create 100 percent literacy rate and equality for all genders and rest they will take care on their own. Current technological advancements would have done that in very money and in less time ( not in centuries)

[@bluetown2017]

As if creating 100 percent literacy and gender equality are easily achievable. The two things that Taliban fought 20 years to make sure never happens (killing girls who would go to school).

[@BallyBoy95]

Could not agree more. I'm glad you commented, good to see critical thinking is alive and well.

[@DannyPoet]

Yep.. education & healthcare .. employment of women to promote equality would have helped. the main problem was the differences between urban & rural areas.. rural areas remaining a lot harder to manage ... i think likely one of the biggest problems was corruption. the money given to the Afhgani government just disappeared into suitcases

[@MrYarik04]

This is just propaganda for educated people, exactly

[@tobiasrietveld3819]

India has a wealth of natural resources, a beneficial geography, the massive benefits of being a former British colony and a very large population that has enough sense of shared nationality and religion to act as a whole. Afghanistan has none of these things. The notion that Afghanistan and India are comparable is ridiculous.

[@howlingwolf028]

I think she needs to revisit her books. Saying Iraq has never been a developed country is a total lie. Iraq existed and was developed long before both US and the west.

[@icysaracen3054]

My friend who is a former British marine commando who in the Siege of Sangin said that the US soldiers were fucking up. The Afghan loved the British troops and did not want to deal with the Americans.

[@therallyguy1]

Wow. She is so great at explaining history

[@Lilchina-kh3tf]

Eh, her argument assumes the objective of the war was to win. I'm not convinced that is the case. Rather, i think the evidence shows that Afghanistan was a "never ending war" by design. A means to suck the American taxpayer dry and put that money into the pockets of defense contractors (and anyone else that stands to benefit financially). We spent TRILLIONS of dollars on that war. If you asked the average American where they would like TRILLIONS of their money to be spent, i can GUARANTEE they wouldn't say afghanistan. The whole thing was a corrupt scheme from day 1.

[@Maltlicky50]

EXACTLY 💯

[@zinyang8213]

We need monthly Sarah Paine interviews 😁

[@daffidkane8350]

Institutions are critical. Sarah misses one additional point: the Americans were corrupt and saw Iraq and Afghanistan as troughs into which the military-industrial complex could dip their snouts. I also disagree about Russia. There are neocons in the west who want to dismantle Russia. NATO can also be a destabilizing neighbour.