What if you try to free Orpheus while the Emperor is watching

#baldursgate3
After failing to dominate the Elderbrain, with the hammer at hand, trying to break out Orpheus without discussing it with the Emperor first results in this mini cutscene.

[@a_peridox]

The only illithid that I would trust with my life is Omeluum

[@quackduckquack]

True... He is a real homie Emperor on the other hand has a history of killing his friends and allies

[@Plutonium292]

In my 2nd play, I let Karlach became illithid and hope that she would hang out with Omeluum later, I think it's my best ending

[@kumo9033]

Wouldn't it have been great if Larian had allowed Omeluum to take on this role if you successfully rescue him earlier in the story.

[@quackduckquack]

@@kumo9033 Yeah I wish there was an option to do so

[@meris8486]

Omeluum is the real chad Mindflayer

[@aidinis50]

He really hits you with the "don't speak to me or my son ever again" lmao

[@ethanyork1058]

I was always kinda shifty on the Emperor, but what really tipped the scales for me was when I saw his romance scene. Now, a shirtless mind flayer in front of me, I'm already of a mind to tell him to piss off, I'm already taken, and no way in hell would I want to do that with you in the first place. What really got me was what he showed me. He showed me how duke stelmane never actually had autonomy: He used his mind flayer powers to dominate her. That's why if you ask Wyll what duke Stelmane is like, he'll say that at one point she was fine, but later, she was glassy eyed and staring off into space. What was once Balduran is now a menace that needs to be wiped from the planes.

[@nathanfivecoate5848]

Same! All I had to say when I saw the Emperor shirtless is that I wanted nothing more than to get a good night's sleep without it barging into my dreams or anyone elses, especially because I was thoroughly commited to Shadowheart. Not once, not twice, but three times, and he was strictly monogamous with her. No drow, no druid that wanted to fuck my Ranger/Rogue while wildshaped into a *BEAR*, no incubus. He (my Ranger/Rogue) didn't want to have any sort of sexual/romantic relationship with anyone but his sweet Selûnite gf and soon-to-be post-credits wife. He didn't trust the Emperor from the beginning, and was especially against the idea of infesting his brain with even more tadpoles. Nobody used them except Lae'zel before bringing her along for the final battle because I realized how the zaithiisk fucked up her stats. I was all too relieved when Orpheus agreed to make the ultimate sacrifice for his people and the worlds, because again, my character's future was all-too spoken for.

[@GeorgeWashingtonLaserMusket]

The cool thing is if you kill the Ilithid you could then use True Resurrection to bring Balduran back as an actual person. I mean depending on the lore we're going with it'll work.

[@rubixium]

becoming ilithid destroys the soul, true res wont work

[@broom3302]

Another funny thing about mindflayers is that they absorb the memories of the brains they eat right, like karlach in her mindflayer epilogue. Well the emperor was doing the "morally correct" thing by eating criminal brains (it's what he said but he is a liar, so who knows). Wouldn't filling his brain with criminal memories slowly "corrupt" him so to speak. Skew his moral compass ever so gently in the wrong direction

[@AyaWetts]

@@rubixium I haven't heard it destroys the soul... any more than having your corpse raised as undead does. You just die, your soul moves on, and your body turns into the mindflayer. Its not you any more, just what happened to your dead body.

[@SSjSylar]

"Don't call me, don't come by my house, we're done." Energy

[@Vedrine41]

so poorly written, I hope they will revamp that part in the future

[@Jamelon]

I think despite helping us he's still a dick and freeing orpheus is the most positive final

[@ThatTCG]

Orpheus is a racist who would be content enslaving the races he sees as lesser

[@scw55]

He's very manipulative. His writing nearer the end drips of narcissism with threads of gaslighting. And if you challenge him, he begins to threaten you. I think this is in part to heavily suggest who he was initially isn't actually there anymore. He's a mind flayer who has inherited his host's memories. He never lies to you but only tells you what he wants you to know to help him fulfil his plan. His agenda is purely self-serving. And he guilts you when you call him out.

[@Jamelon]

@@scw55 yeah. You pointers EVERYTHING out. And instead of being neutral he tries to stop us

[@ktkr5273]

Yeah man free the son of space Hitler what could go wrong ?

[@Medatreeme]

The biggest red flag for me is how he pressured you to evolve to half ilithid, I failed all the checks so I was forced to evolve. (Chose not to reload the save for rp reasons.) But after that, made me not want to take his side.

[@biffin1123]

0:18 POV: she had a dream about you cheating on her.

[@kidprince8578]

LOL

[@unbreakablelag]

Yes. I will live with the consequences of my actions.

[@adrianfohrer2466]

Every important NPC try manipulates you in this game...

[@HodajuciParadoks]

Emperor hides too much, manipulates too..talks in half truths....in one moments he does show you who he is and how little he cares, he just says what you want to hear so he can use you. IT is his way or HIS way...no compromises ...all he does is leading the player to do everything his way. He may not be main villain, but he is not good...neutral and selfish, manipulative too. He does say he fights with mind not swords ...when you do turn him down, and start pushing him to tell you stuff, once he does see that he can not manipulate you and you do not trust him, he show what he could have done to you , the same he did with women he "loved". He faked it, the love and friendship with the women before you, he mind controlled her, so he can have power in the city. Even his name is the big clue about his personality.

[@Norinia]

I think he prides too much in his former namesake being the name of a well known city.

[@scw55]

I did enjoy that in BG3 there were multiple antagonists, and they all had their own agenda and were in conflict with each other. It felt like an actual power grab from multiple people. It made for an interesting play-driven story. If you were hyper-good, you were trying to discern who was sincere and if it was even possible to succeed without having to compromise your morals. If you were evil, you had options of what kind of evil you wanted to be and who aligned best with that. If you were in between, you had rich options to navigate.

[@HodajuciParadoks]

That is the beauty of this game, you can play it in so many ways, so many times and never gets boring@@scw55

[@IceWinder]

I had a different interpretation. The Emperor does not lie to you. He omits details he thinks are irrelevant, which is not the same thing. He isn't a nice sweet guy but he's not evil either. He tells you he wants netherbrain gone, and that's exactly what his agenda is. Says Orpheus will kill us/him, and he believes this 100%. He fights with you and leaves you in peace afterwards just as he said. He genuinely thinks being a mind flayer is a superior choice and wants to share the power with you. If you romance him + become mind flayer, you stay together with no indication of any BS. Many characters are ambiguous in this way. Astarion is also a mean + deceptive person who you can also drive to extreme antagonism, or you can choose to be loyal and he is loyal in return.

[@Leddderz2TheEdditerz]

@@IceWinder Omissions are lies. Not telling the whole truth is deception, which, again... Lies. He actively and passively lies to you.

[@BruceWayne-fj9bm]

I did it right in front of him and he just dipped 🤷🏻‍♂️ I didn’t really like him after he spent ALL act 1 tricking me, ALL act 2 not telling me he was Baldur, and then act 3 trying to seduce me when he’s a squid man 🤢🤢🤢

[@ivche13]

you don't like squid tentacle up your ass?

[@csguak]

But you like tentacles!

[@montizima]

No shit he would lie to you. You wouldn’t have trusted him at all if you knew he was a mind flayer. Also, no shit he wouldn’t tell you he was Balduran. If someone you work with comes up to you and says, “Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I’m actually Genghis Khan.” You wouldn’t believe them. Finally, in the romance scene, he gives you the option of doing it with the Guardian instead.

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

​@@montizima Counterpoints! 1-Omeluum exists. Get a better excuse. 2-I'm kinda OK on the Balduran thing for a bit. But he's way too secretive and vague until the dragon rugpulls him. There's a difference between not telling you he's Balduran and actively lying to you. Not to mention if ge was gonna appear as a dream guardian he might as well have appeared as Balduran from the start! 3-I don't care he's willing to disguise himself. He's still trying to seduce you when firstly, this is a greatly unequal power dynamic and therefore incredibly wrong and secondly, when you reject him he immediately shows his true colors. He's a manipulative control freak with at best dark grey morality and unlike Omeluum he hasn't even tried to be honest and form a moral compass.

[@owens945]

@@montizima Might just be narrative limitations on Larian's part but if the Emperor was being one hundred percent straight with us, he could have trusted us as he so often asked us to trust him, and let us free Orpheus without turning on us. The Orpheus route and the Emperor's aren't incompatible. Orpheus agrees with the Emperor's assessment of what's needed to stop the brain, and all that's needed is a willing illithid: well they have one right there lol. Maybe the Emperor genuinely believed Orpheus would just murder them all immediately but I seriously doubt it given he could just read his mind. We didn't even need to talk Orpheus into not killing us, or talk him into becoming illithid: he simply reaches those conclusions quickly alone. His hatred for illithid might be great, but it isn't one bit blinding. I think the Emperor just can't stand Orpheus's power being in the hands of a non-illithid. He may be 'good' in some ways but he's bought in entirely to illithid supremacy, he doesn't want someone around whose very existence calls that into question.

[@1SaG]

In the end, the Emperor is, after all, a Mind Flayer and not your friend. He will manipulate you and he does so during the entire game. Saving you from falling is not done out of kindness, but because he sees you as a tool. I was honestly surprised that there was no scene of "surprise betrayal" at the very end if you decide to stick with him through the end-game. AFAIK, there's only an opportunity for the player to do that to him if you've become a Mind Flayer yourself. Anyway: Initially, I was reluctant to even consider using the hammer, but I think I'll do it this run. Not just to get a different ending, but because I think there's a good case to be made to take that route. The genius of this conundrum is that there is no good or bad choice here ... at least not between those two options. There is quite a bit that could be said in favor of sticking with the Emperor. He saved your life on multiple occasions, he was kinda, sorta honest with you (his initial deception was necessary, IMO, considering *what* he is). OTOH, he never went completely honest with you. Take Ansur for example and how you have to piece that story together yourself. And I don't think the Emperor didn't tell you because he didn't think the story relevant. I'd rather suspect he kept that one to himself because it showed more of what/who he really is: A pretty ruthless being, willing to maim or kill his allies if it's in his best interest. Add to that the whole story about Stelmane and I think it's pretty clear that siding with the Gith is not an "evil" choice. Plus his way of kinda, sorta trying to goad you into sex while still in his "Guardian" form - and then trying to follow up on that later even if you are in a relationship. Dude... put on a shirt when you drag me from my sleep into your home. Since I don't really care about the Gith one way or the other, what did it for me, probably, was his attempt at trying to push Tav into "evolution" with that special tadpole. I just didn't like his "A-haaaa! I felt that..!"-line and the fact that I get a ton of dialogue options that all seem to lead towards accepting the tadpole and just one that lets me stomp on the thing. And just to add another few sentences to an already way too long comment: As someone pointed out Omeluum in the comments, I think he's not just a trustworthy Mind Flayer but also a prime example that there can be folks of his race that aren't egotistical assholes. The Emperor is probably a lot too ambitious and too full of ..err.. itself. Omeluum seems trustworthy through and through - the Emperor does not.

[@maksymisaiev1828]

Well, in the end, if you choose Emperor side instead of Orpheus but keep stones to yourself (in my gameplay it was Karlach, who wanted to sacrificed herself) Emperor still do his part of the bargain. Netherbrain is dead, crown is nowhere (in my case Gale wanted to find it anyway), Emperor is running in the sunset and Karlach in illithid form continue life. So how Emperor ends in the end depends on your choice. But I agree that Gith may be not "evil" choice. I just don't like their attitude.

[@rayclay3249]

"Take Ansur for example and how you have to piece that story together yourself. And I don't think the Emperor didn't tell you because he didn't think the story relevant." Why would he bring up the story of Ansur to you in the first place though? Your party don't even know of Ansur's existence until Duke Ravengard is freed and mentioned it to you and Emperor already know Ansur is dead and would not be of help to your quest of stopping the Brain so the story really WAS irrelevant in his perspective. "I'd rather suspect he kept that one to himself because it showed more of what/who he really is: A pretty ruthless being, willing to maim or kill his allies if it's in his best interest." I think this is only half true. Piecing together the story from both Ansur's and Emperor's account, him killing Ansur wasn't even done out of malice but out of necessity and self-preservation. Like, his letter to Ansur had him imploring Ansur to just leave him be and forget him but Ansur wanted to free his friend from his fate which lead to the fight and Ansur's eventual demise. Most people usually present the story of Ansur and his death as if Emperor killed him for malice and not out of self-defence. Now I'm not saying that Emperor is a goody two-shoes but people often leave out details in events in order to make him out to be more evil than he actually is (the scene with Stelmane is another example of people taking the scene out of context just to prove a point even though it's a disingenuous point to make since you have to actively INSULT him in order to get him to call you a "tool" for him but people usually leave that detail out)

[@arcanefire7511]

mind flayers are not inherently evil. And dont tell me you think Ansur was in the right.

[@TheEmpireMaster]

​@@rayclay3249the thing about Ansur...how could a single mindflayer kill that dragon? That doesn't make any sense unless he prepared a trap and planed to kill Andur. Also you did see where Ansur was laying, right? In his cave. Emperors story is that Ansur tried to kill him in his sleep and thus he had to defend himself. But I highly doubt that Emperor was sleeping in that cave.

[@rayclay3249]

​@@TheEmpireMaster "how could a single mindflayer kill that dragon?" Balduran was a very experienced adventurer and he became a mind flayer. Mind flayers in lore are pretty powerful, aren't they? (I'm not sure how powerful illithids are exactly since I'm not well-versed in the lore but they certainly aren't pushovers). Not to mention that Balduran and Ansur were extremely close which meant they would know each other's weaknesses. "That doesn't make any sense unless he prepared a trap and planed to kill Andur." If that's the case then how come Ansur never brought up that fact when he confronts Emperor? Sounds like you're using headcannon to fill in the missing gap there tbh. Ansur's words regarding their fight were "I offered you merciful death. You chose to fight" which supports the idea that Ansur was the first one to attack. "Also you did see where Ansur was laying, right? In his cave. Emperors story is that Ansur tried to kill him in his sleep and thus he had to defend himself. But I highly doubt that Emperor was sleeping in that cave." I'm gonna raise a question in that how could we know for sure that the cave was the ONLY location that the fight started and ended? It could've just as easily been the last battle ground while the first half of the battle took place elsewhere. Tbh, your argument and my argument are gonna end up being a conjecture since we truly won't know the full circumstance of what happened (unless a writer decided to clear that up or the Definitive Edition expands on their confrontation).

[@vitorh3568]

AUHaHUhuAuha this was LoL Probably gonna it in my run.

[@magnus5747]

I find it quite laughable and childish that he just change sides like that, there should at least be some kind of persuasion check to keep him on your side. After all you've been through he just throws it all away like he has done countless times.

[@humanintelegence]

pls let me romance Omeluum

[@themarkktv]

So you can't convince him and Orpheus to work together? Damn.

[@kidprince8578]

Ikr

[@Youshallbeeatenbyme]

The emperor is a giant bitch. He would never work wit orpheus because he knows orpheus would not benefit him in the slightest.

[@FishAndKid]

The emperor is soley focused on his own survival. He does not care what he has to do if it means he has the best chance of surviving. He enthralled Duke Stelmane, a former ally and close friend to get himself power and a steady supply of criminal brains. People that would not be missed, and no one would look into it, so he was safe. He allied himself with you and saved you because it was the best chance for him to survive and get away from the chosen 3. Orpheus wants the eradication of all mind flayers. So even if him alliying himself with Orpheus against the elder brain means a greater chance of winning that fight, he has a lower chance of surviving in the long run. Orpheus would most likely not allow him to live at the end. He lets you live if you turn into a mind flayer because he sees you sacrificing yourself to become a mind flayer and respects that. The emperor did no such thing so would probably be killed, but even if Orpheus did allow him to live for now at some point in the future he would be hunted down. He has escaped the elder brain twice before and could probably do so again later, so there's a greater chance for him to survive by joining the netherbrain than allowing Orpheus to live.

[@mikdan8813]

Holy shit he breaks up with you

[@kittidoux]

Oh well

[@stranger6822]

IMO best ending is free Orpheus then let Gale finish the brain. No mind flayers, Orpheus going to war with vlakith, and no Gale having delusions of godhood or looking for more ultra powerful artifacts.

[@67Lich]

How do you let Gale finish the brain?

[@nolp2898]

It really is the only option. Dont forget, "Becoming" a mindflayer is just you being consumed by the parasite and having a mindflayer walking around thinking it is you. Someone dies no matter what, Let it be the foolhardy mage who put himself in his shit situation so that he has a chance at redemption eh?

[@Korvilon]

Nah I prefer having Karlach becoming the mind flayer so that she doesn't have to leave our world AND gets to live. I had her turn into a mind flayer and I kept gale alive and convinced him to just fulfil his task and return the crown to his goddess.

[@stranger6822]

@@67Lich free Orpheus, tell him you'll make decision later, get to place to climb up to the brain, tell Gale to go ahead and do it, gg.

[@stranger6822]

@@Korvilon may be spoiler but, assuming you've finished the game, maybe not. Mind flayers don't have souls. They think they're still the people that they were, but they are not. They lose all morality and feeling in the process of becoming mind flayers. There seems to be an indefinite window of time during which a person who's just become a mind flayer still has enough of themself left over to end their own life. But, eventually, the new mind flayer starts acting exactly like a mind flayer. Logical, calculating, efficient, but also totally self serving and ruthless. Perfectly psychopathic. Faerun cannot tolerate such creatures to exist.

[@theredeft5319]

He’s an idiot. After everything he saw us do he really thought he was better off throwing in with the absolute to be a slave again? I was mosty on his side for awhile. I suspected that the dream guardian was either my illithad tadpole trying to get me to give in or Orpheus, then when it was revealed as the Emperor I thought okay it kinda makes sense why he was like that. I wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt, even though I even read in game books talking about mindflayer manipulation. The friendly mindflayer in the underdark gave me pause. Thought it was cool he seemed like a vigilante. Went half illithad, ran into his romance scene and said fuck it why not? However even then I was starting to suspect he was just manipulating Tav, not unlike Astarion had tried whom my Tav was romancing. His line Sun response to are you flirting with me, was would you like that? Which made me think he was manipulating you and not at all really feeling anything. Then as act 3 goes on he tries to gaslight Tav with Ansur being a myth so we don’t find out who he was and how he killed his former friend/lover(which my Tav was a dragon born so that was a funny coincidence). He gets quite huffy about it when the duke is devastated to hear the truth. Then he refuses to free Minsc for some reason(because he’s kinda dumb?) unless Jaheria threatens him. Finally he gets mad when I go to Avernus to get the hammer, because I figured we should free Orpheus once we didn’t need his protection anymore. At this point I’m really getting sick of his shit. Then I go to fight the absolute and he starts going on about trusting him, that they should kill Orpheus, and I really don’t see why? Did he refuse to stay in the prism this time and keep the protection going? Maybe he didn’t want us to free him because he figured Orpheus would kill him(which was probably a good chance of), but I would have waited until the absolute was done first. So I refused to kill Orpheus and he goes to become a slave of the absolute. He kept talking about trust but didn’t get us any trust in return. I killed that loser first turn in combat and don’t regret it. Sucks that Orpheus had to become a mindflayer in my playthrough though cause I wasn’t gonna do it. Must really suck if you are romancing Lae’zel. Like you gotta ruin yourself or let her prince ruin himself. Also I was horrified to find out what he did to the duke after the game was over. He made it out like she willing was involved with him. Absolutely terrible.

[@Gunz3r]

What happens if you kill the emperor at this point? With one attack, for example.

[@kidprince8578]

That's actually a very good question, and I originally intended to make a video about that instead of this one, but I wasn't able to one shot him, and he leaves the second you hit him

[@aetheratomicyt8708]

ur tav look like leon from re4

[@kidprince8578]

I get that a lot ;D

[@rikora22]

Leon can’t catch a break

[@RB.23Raven]

What if you put him in shadow then try?

[@kidprince8578]

He still leaves, and any attempt to harm the Emepror results in the same outcome as freeing Orpheus

[@sorvex9]

Does he join the elder brain if you do this?

[@marlo_oO]

yup.

[@kidprince8578]

he's either with you or with the Brain, sadly

[@duraluminiumalloy9248]

When he opted to rather join Netherbrain instead of trying to survive out there on his own and give Orpheus and me a chance to liberate both Baldurians and Githyanki, I was reassured that I made the right decision not to trust him on my first, "lawful good" playthrough. Who knows what he'd do with the Crown had he the chance to use it. Mindflayer through and through till the bitter end.

[@Delver639]

​@@duraluminiumalloy9248yep, it implies you're choosing one illithid brain over another. On dialogs prior to this tip point in the game, he lets you know that he was manipulating you to gain your allegiance, the illithid puppeteer and you/us the puppet. When you contest his orders during this very scene before releasing Orpheus, he confesses he manipulated you and that it is in his very nature, that is the way of illithids (deceit and manipulate others). During one of the last scenes he says his goal is to control the brain, not kill it; and by suggesting that second choice (control the brain) while he's with you, he will control the brain and you will be puppet along with everyone else (every mindflayer and the infected).

[@codyvandal2860]

@@Delver639When he hands the sword to you in dream guardian form and "submits" to you if you go ahead and stab him it proves to just be an illusion and an effort just to trick you

[@CrimsonBae]

how'd you get that hammer so early?

[@kidprince8578]

Got it by making the deal with Raphael, but then tore it to pieces in his House of Hope. What makes you think it came early?

[@SalamiCellar]

@@kidprince8578doesn’t this bit happen right after you leave act2? It forces you into a long rest and then the gith attack while you sleep, that’s when you hop into the portal, it happens before you even get the chance to take Raphael’s deal, at least that’s how my playthrough went, both times

[@kidprince8578]

@@SalamiCellar oh no no, this is my second time in the Astral Prism, not the first. There IS a way to get the hammer early by using mods, but i don't wanna test what happens if I try to break out Orpheus that way

[@Jonatron101]

@@kidprince8578 Ahhh, I didn't know you could destroy the contract!!

[@nathanfivecoate5848]

​@@Jonatron101You never tried busting down Raphael's door for a bit of good old fashioned burglary?

[@TLDelapore]

I don't envy the dating and home life of whoever wrote for this video game. There's like a dozen different toxic exploitative relationships that seem like very very thinly veiled metaphors for real experience.

[@CreativeUsernameEh]

That’s kinda why I only go for the Wyll romance. Like a fairy tale The rest have drama but I wouldn’t go so far as to imply the writers are projecting anything. They’re writing drama. Conflict.

[@Jordan-wc6nh]

It’s almost like everyone in this game is traumatized to hell and doesn’t know how to interact with their fellow sapient beings in a healthy way 🙂

[@MultiZernez]

@@Jordan-wc6nhah yes, heumnan.

[@eyeballpapercut4400]

By your logic, there is a lot of wrong in stuff like Lord of the Rings and The Last Airbender. Even when the former is not a metaphor/allegory of anything in the real world.

[@ChielScape]

Bruh stories where everyone just gets along are fucking boring.

[@Rahdwiin]

Did we even play the same game ...? How can someone consider the Emperor a villain? They are literally the most important character in this game and the main reason we were able to even fight back to begin with. Granted, they did it for their own interests, so what? They became a mind-flayer, and doesn't wants to become a thrall by the hands of the Absolute, and that is FOR SURE reason enough for them to want to fight already, even if it's not something noble like saving the world. They don't "betrays" you if you decide to free Orpheus, they just firmly believes that this is tantamount to suicide, and if you still do it despite their many pleads for you to not do it, then they see themselves forced to leave your side in order to survive, and nothing more. The proof that they are not evil, nor a mind-flayer beast obsessed with power, is that they don't lie to you about how YOU can become a mind-flayer yourself and use the gems yourself if you prefer, they don't try to keep the gems for themselves, and if you really don't want to give them the gems, you can keep them yourself without problems, as long as you do "what you must" in order for everyone to succeed, because that was all they wanted. Even if you give them the gems, after you defeat the Absolute you have to PERSUADE them to keep the brain alive and use it for evil purposes, because even if the thought crossed their mind, they don't do it by themselves.

[@kidprince8578]

The Emperor is a pretty gray character, but what people don't like about him is that he manipulates and speaks in half truths, hence the trust for him dies quickly. I myself really like the guy, but if I have to choose, I'd go with Orpheus.

[@Dagroth]

If the Emperor lives and takes control of the Netherbrain, he quickly makes the party his slaves. There's your villain. (granted, he only does it, if you suggest he does and you share power over people etc, so that doesn't make your character any better, but he's still a villain in that scenario)

[@damienjohnson3450]

He mind controlled Duke Stehlmane and basically made her have strokes while doing his bidding. If you continue to question him and not trust him he reveals this to you himself as a threat. Basically saying "I can turn you into a a meat puppet so do what I tell you to do or else." He lies to you every step of the way as well, not just about him being a mind flayer either. 1st he say's that he can prevent you from becoming one, then he wants you to become one. 2nd he say's he has no idea what's behind the cult, but it was him the cult sent after the prism. 3rd he claims not to know what's under moonrise towers, only to reveal that's where he was turned. He's morally grey at best and evil at worst. But if you're into tentacle hentai, you don't gotta make up reasons to go for it.

[@Rahdwiin]

Exactly, you have to CONVINCE them to do that. PERSUADE them, because normally they wouldn't do so, and would simply destroy the Netherbrain despite the thoughts of absolute power crossing their mind, because it would indeed cross anyone's mind to have such opportunity. How can someone say that they are an evil being when it's literally YOU who need to persuade them to become a villain in this scenario? However, I agree with both of you that they are a gray character, and I don't argue against it (it's easy to see that when they suggest the colder and more efficient approaches such as killing Jaheira's partner, rather than an heroic emotional decision). In fact, it was my whole argument, that as many others characters in this game, the Emperor is very gray, they have their own interests, and is not fighting to save the world, but to save themselves. For me, that is a valid reason, and calling them an evil villain when in the end the things that they did were all win-win and contributed immenselly to save the world too, is kinda reducing his character. They are by no means a great person, but they are not evil either, they were just trying to survive and not becoming a thrall.

[@Rahdwiin]

I particularly trusted on them until the almost end, because my character was a Oath of Revenge Paladin with strong morals, and while he refused to follow many of the Emperor suggestions, like killing people that could be a risk for us, the Emperor still gave no reason for me to turn against them, since all of their actions one way or another would indeed turn out to be helpful. That, of course, with a hint of suspicion that they could have their own agenda that I would have to prepare myself, hence why I went after the Orphic Hammer, to not depend on their power entirely if they were to turn against me. They even said "that is not my definition of trust", but for me, it was big enough trust, just not blindly, and I when they asked for the gems, that was when I found it very fishy and got prepared to use the hammer. Ultimately, however, the fact that they don't really wanted the gems, and not only tell you of the possibility of you becoming a mind-flayer and holding the gems yourself, but also support it, convinced me that they were an ally for sure, and I decided to trust and follow them one last time, which did not disappoint me.

[@corporateturtle6005]

"Amazing" Larian storytelling, ladies and gentlemen. 🤣😂🤣

[@damienjohnson3450]

Just write your own Emperor and Orphious fanfic bro. The rest of us are good.

[@corporateturtle6005]

@@damienjohnson3450 OK? Not sure where that came from but ok.