What is Actually WRONG With Goat Format?

[@JanjoZone]

Interested in buying cards on Whatnot? Use my link and first time purchases will get $15 to use! > whatnot.com/invite/janjozone

[@GLamb3895]

The Unholy Trinity of Pot, Charity, and Duo are backbreaking, but the only thing keeping them balanced is that you can open them just as often as your opponent can. I think there might be a better format if we dig deep enough, but this era, and the gameplay based on resource management and trading efficiently are the cores of it's gameplay, and how Yugioh is made to be played

[@shawnjavery]

Funny enough out of the cards I'd consider putting on the ban list those aren't on it. I find cards like dust shoot, trunade, judgment, ojama trio way more unhealthy for the game than the power cards every deck can benefit equally from. Even power cards like snatch steal and ring are bigger offenders just because there's a lot of game states where those cards steal games that are otherwise unwinnable.

[@Reluxthelegend]

"but the only thing keeping them balanced is that you can open them just as often as your opponent can" That can be said about every single format ever.

[@tonik8799]

@@Reluxthelegend I think he (op) makes a point here. In Tier 0 esk style formates thats kinda true or with some turnending handraps against said ones but I dont see that many formates where so many cards where in a deck for the same reason except handtraps or equalizer. Like one could argue, that during goat it was likely to see both Players use up to the same number and actually same cards with just some minor changes in sequencing so in a sense you had the same chance to open the same cards that where used against you. It also helps that goat was and is, most of the time, a slower format so recovery via cards drawn for turn is a much more common thing than today

[@jackcarraway4707]

Here's what I'd do to give Goat Format a tune-up: Ban: Cyber Jar Cyber-Stein Dark Magician of Chaos Delinquent Duo Last Turn Monster Gate Morphing Jar Pot of Greed Reasoning Rescue Cat Royal Magical Library Sinister Serpent Trap Dustshoot Restrict: Chaos Sorcerer Des Koala Limiter Removal Secret Barrel Wave-Motion Cannon With this you wipe out most of the toxic OTK decks (Empty Jar, Reasoning Gate, Cat, etc.), weaken Burn so it's not a guaranteed duel 1 win and get rid of objectively cheap cards (Duo, Dustshoot, etc.)

[@derrosenkavalier8890]

The Nightmare Troubadour deck edit BGM is much appreciated by this duelist. *So* nostalgic, one of my favorite tracks in any video game ever, and brings me to the verge of tears in conjuring memories of an era long gone.

[@JanjoZone]

Great soundtrack!

[@musvijajuzagrilariocara8583]

Ironically if someone went back in time and snuck into the upper deck office and changed the banlist to their liking, Janjo would still be making this video. Every format will have something to complain about, it’s really inevitable.

[@JanjoZone]

Yeah I agree with that. Format's are always bound to funnel into a certain meta game where X, Y, or Z are issues.

[@kheireddineattala1281]

So, here is the thing: Mirror force and heavy storm are cards you have SOME ability to play around, and they make the overall game more interesting (you can't set a lot of backrow, you can'e attack with many monsters, if you do, you're at risk) but POG and duo are just free advantage. If someone opens duo, it is just a matter of do you have snake ready to go (and should you do they go neutral which is fine). So I would only get rid of like greed, duo, ring, BLS and maaaaybe dustshoot+charity (charity needs at least some combo to go + and keeping one OP card may be fine enough) What I would like the community to do is not only change the banlist but add some cards from the future to buff less viable decks. The point would be to make an enhanced goat format that has a lot of variety and less problem cards. That could be the best YGO format ever made provided the top decks stay competitive (so we do not powercreep the format)

[@kindlingking]

Add Yajiro Invader. Bam, format fixed.

[@kheireddineattala1281]

@@kindlingking lmfao

[@Belgianidiot]

Good video. I would like to say hindsight is always more critical than the judgement of the moment. Just like evolution of combat in Runescape and Cataclysm in Wow weren't expected to be badly recieved. Both of these companies did do a second take on their old game and improved upon the original concept greatly. (Respecting powercreep, adding a few future updates, but scaled to the older format) Also, detrimental to power creep in yu-gi-oh was konami's corporate greed. They kept making their old cards useless to make more money. I'm pro changing goat format slightly to make it more enjoyable because we can all see what's overpowered and what wouldn't break to format if we added it.

[@MrBigNoodle]

Answer: Nothing.

[@icebergslim1872]

I think if Pot of Greed was at 3 instead of 1 it wouldn't be as much of a "blowout" since both players would have a better chance of seeing it throughout the game. Just a thought. Of course if other things were different also I mean. Like no Duo or Charity or stuff like that maybe.

[@gyroh6593]

I wouldn’t prefer banlists as much as I would prefer card changes. Physical card games can’t buff or nerf cards but digital card games do. There’s a lot of nerfs that could be applied to cards to make them more balanced. Like GK Spy having Bubonic Vermin stats, or maybe she can special summon a GK monster that isn’t another Spy. Or having BLS banish a dark/light to normal summon without tributing, and no additional text after that. Chaos Sorcerer requiring to discard 1 to use his effect, just like Dark Core. Ring of D: only Ring’s user takes the effect damage. And so on. My favorite change to a lot of underpowered cards is to change their effects from “When… you can” to “If… you can”, so that they don’t miss their timing anymore.

[@RenegadeGamer89]

As an avid Goat player I have to disagree with the idea of it being unfair, it's arguably the most balanced format in Yu-Gi-Oh's history. I get the argument about the sacky cards but you need to remember that all decks have access to them. I'm guessing it mainly comes from people who don't play the format much thinking every deck has to be Goat Control, which is definitely not the case. I have an Earth Beatdown deck and Zombie deck that I use to smack Chaos and Goat Control around all the time. Goat Format isn't about using your power cards to beat your opponent, it's about maintaining card advantage and playing around your opponent's plays, which can't be said about modern.

[@ElusiveMirror]

In a strict sense the factor of variance will ALWAYS make any TCG unfair at its core, even if one plays a mirror match with the exact same decklist, the most blatant example in older Yugioh formats is probably the advantage of getting to go first (due to the draw). So the question then becomes, how much is variance and how much is skill in a particular format?

[@gravethestampede3454]

All decks might be able to run all the crazy powerful cards, but you only have access to the random assortment in your starting hand, hence the sackiness of it all.

[@RenegadeGamer89]

@@ElusiveMirror If you are going to have success with your deck it's based on your skill with the deck, knowledge of it's strengths and weaknesses and your ability to play against what your opponent is doing. Just because you may have the "best" deck doesn't guarantee that you'll always beat someone, you need to know how to pilot it. For example, in Goat Format my Earth Beat down deck is inferior to Goat Control or Chaos Turbo on paper. However, since I'm so knowledgeable with the deck and know what cards those decks play that counter or overpower it I'm able to maneuver correctly. The great thing about Goat Format is that it's not Tier 0, yes there are more powerful decks but the card pool overall is relatively balanced and most strategies can hold their own against anything. The reason I brought up modern Yu-Gi-Oh is that the game is at a point where if I go first you either need to stop my plays (hand traps) or break my board on your turn or I win, and let's be honest with each other Konami is definitely making some strategies more powerful than others on purpose. I'm not saying modern is trash, I go in and out of it based on what's current, but to me it's not as much fun as the older formats were. I may have my nostalgia glasses on since I grew up in the DM era and I'm aware of that. I've actually convinced the group of friends that I played with to start looking into Edison Format because that's also another well balanced and fun era.

[@Vicman69Idrissi]

As you said, people that dont play the format enough cant really see why the Trinity isnt that big of a deal. The more you play, the more you realize that playing correctly, you can easily overcome the +1 of Pot or the -1 of Duo.

[@ThatGuyThai]

​@@gravethestampede3454that is every card game ever, what is this argument lol

[@quinkelly1441]

Curse of Anubis trap card was good in this format I played that card at 3 for the longest time change the battle position of all monsters on the feild to defence position

[@JanjoZone]

It's a fun card!

[@DonbotS]

I like Goat format for what it is...honestly. With all the common/iconic staples played, it sort of resembles chess in a way where you have the same "pieces" as your opponent (it's also much easier to introduce the game to friends since they don't have to learn too many new cards for every deck they play). Even then, look at some top decks like Turbo, Warrior or Goat Control. These are three decks with distinct styles of play with their own win conditions, yet they have a lot of shared staples between them. Knowing what your opponent likely has in their deck forces you to manage your resources for the current game state while also taking in consideration what your opponent might play as a followup based on cards you haven't seen yet. You end up playing more aggressive at times because you know you're on a clock or try to drag games out and bait out counters to set up a game shot. It ends up being a game within a game. Also, having all those staples makes it really easy to side a smokescreen, which I am all for.

[@JanjoZone]

I agree with that!

[@bocasuja22]

when i want to build a deck in goat i just go for the limited list and ad most of the card from there lol

[@JanjoZone]

Thats a way to do it!

[@Owl-yc2yu]

The ONLY problem cards I see are BLS and duo since they make chaos turbo just a bit too strong.

[@ChadKing69]

GOAT format is the best format

[@dylanramirez7274]

The complaints people have about goat format is actually what I love about android/joeypeagasus format. I love the crazy hay makers you and your opponent throw at each other with these busted ass cards

[@Skeeerttttt]

It's a community ran format, we should have a community voted banlist. It'll keep the format interesting

[@JanjoZone]

Except that Konami has ran Goat as part of their 3v3 back at ycs vegas

[@jakedemonaco1034]

I have a love hate relationship with goat. As a player that likes to get creative with decks it gets stale versing the same hyper tuned chaos or panda burn decks every game. I also feel like Dustshoot is a huge problem, the fact that your hand gets mapped out takes all the fun out of the game. One of the main appeals to me is the predicting and risk/reward of the decisions you make based on the cards that have been played and when you remove that it just feels bad. Even trying to play around it can sometimes just blow up in your face if you set S/Ts into heavy.

[@JanjoZone]

@@jakedemonaco1034 Yeah I feel that. It's a fair sentiment

[@ramihrduswi1646]

As much as I love goat, the format is so sacky. I played a 3 game match the other day (playing Gravekeepers), played a great game 2 but games 1 and 3 my opponent opened with DD and had Jinzo by turn 4. There was literally nothing I could do.

[@hangfire5944]

Dans mon esprit tout divague, je me perds dans tes yeux

[@billbosconovitch752]

When you realize goat format can't happen on master duel cause of card erratas 😢

[@JanjoZone]

Sadge

[@trueblueryu5713]

Ngl might be for the best. We already have FTK bots farming rewards, I’m sure plenty of people would just as easily set up the magical library FTK bots. Without a side deck in MD, it would basically necessitate main-decking as many negate/jammer cards as we can anyway.

[@beitno3029]

I have a complete list of all correct goat format texts in a Google spreadsheet. The info is publicly available.

[@jaredwilliams1031]

So, has GOAT Format been GOAT'd? 🤔

[@JanjoZone]

🤔

[@Morppadorp]

With all due respect, I don't know why this video was made. Goat Format's banlist doesn't need an update. The reason why people still play it to this day is because out of the various formats in Yugioh's history, it was regarded as one of the more enjoyable/tolerable ones. Using a custom banlist/card pool is the equivalent of making a custom format, and there is simply not a large demand or any real traction for fan-made formats to take off. It's been tried and done before in the Format Library circles; they all see play for a while and then people move on to other things. The people who play Goat, and all retro formats by extension, value the historical accuracy and it is imperative to out experience and engagement with the format. So, either you like the format and enjoy it for what it is, or you don't engage with it because it's not your cup of tea. Having tried Edison, I realized it wasn't for me, and that's totally okay! I also don't fault anybody for taking a liking to it. It's really that simple 🤷‍♂️ One final thing I'll add is that Yugioh's banlist philosophy of limiting/semi-limiting cards will always be problematic from a design perspective. Limiting/semi-limiting cards is an awful balance lever/decision 99% of the time because whatever powerful card gets put to 1 or 2 is still capable of affecting the game; it just happens less often, which increases variance. Boo, variance, the thing every competitive-minded player hates! There is no real solution here outside of doing what MTG does for all formats besides Vintage (cards are either banned or unlimited) or aggressively errata-ing cards (which is what digital card games do, except physical printings make this impractical). Regardless, this is very much a somewhat cursed problem in card game design and there's no clear way around it because, as humans, we are bound to make mistakes and print cards that "break the game" or are otherwise too strong for whatever reason. No card game (format) is perfect, and I think people need to come to terms with that. Goat comes *really* close to offering a play experience that is difficult to complain about though outside of generic "lol variance" moments, which are going to exist in every card game, period.

[@Morppadorp]

(I'll just really quickly add that the opening sentence isn't meant to discourage you from making more content; I watch your stuff and enjoy it! I just don't really resonate with the premise of the video at all.)

[@JanjoZone]

@@Morppadorp I never stated in the video that the list should be changed. In fact I explicitly stated that it should not be changed at 3:38. The video was made to explain the issues UDE saw in the format before and after, and issues that have appeared in hindsight. And that it was also a way to celebrate the format given all that. But thank you for the insight!

[@darkwyngraym]

🔥

[@JanjoZone]

Thank you for supporting the channel!

[@MaggotsOfDestruction]

My second favorite format to play. It used to be my favorite until they did Edison format I been enjoying Edison a lot more.

[@jennacalifornia8889]

Personally I also think Edison is better. A lot more variety.

[@MaggotsOfDestruction]

@@jennacalifornia8889 Amen I love playing frog hero it’s my go to just wish they would given us a holo substitoad finally I really hope rarity collection 2 gives it to us.

[@tonik8799]

@@jennacalifornia8889 I too first fell in love with Goat but discoverd Edison later via KZbin and Zuczids Cursed Techs which brought soo much fun back into the game for me personally that I got out of my way to buy like 3 or 4 Edison Decks. Alos a friend of mine wanted to play retro so we agreed on the march 2011 banlist and played a good bit of that foramt too. Its the high time of pure synchro before in September the first wave of xyz is introduced and stuff like Dragunity, T.G. Stun, Frognarch or Karakuri is viable which makes for objectivly cool duells

[@iamstarfox87]

This format is garbage honestly, idk why there's such a community for it. All decks are running the same 10-15 cards to start, trinity is absurdly broken, and so many blowout cards (BLS, RING, YATA, MIRROR FORCE, HEAVY, DARK HOLE) that swing games way too much.

[@tonik8799]

Well retro is certainly not for everyone but objectivly there are good reasons to play goat, even with your mentioned flaws. (just look at some of the other comments). One very overlooked fact I wanna point out and add to the many comments is: Its really great for an entrie format that is alive and thriving. The skillgap at the beginning might hinder you to have immediate success but once you understood a simple gameplan of your deck its way less frustrating than most of the later formats. Also there is just way less happening to grasp as a new Player. Yugioh shoul aim in this direction to gain more new Player who might or might not have an interest in advanced later down the line. Else I dont see the brightest future of Yugioh as a TCG

[@TheRedcoatWOL]

In advanced format almost all decks have the same staples aswell : ash, impermanece, Nibiru, TTT, veiler, evenly Match, and many more... it's like a common thing in competitive YGO (Any format) so I don't consider it as an issue the fact of having the 10-15 same cards in each deck.

[@ManosAlpha]

I want to add that people need to be careful with some statements. For example the person of this comment: Not all the mentioned cards are Goat-legal (Yata, Dark Hole). Mistakes like this can make opinions hard to trust. Also I don't disagree that the trinity is busted, however people can still win against someone who throws all of the three against them. Obviously it's harder than otherwise but it IS possible, which says a lot about this format compared to many others

[@ChadKing69]

Anyone saying GOAT format is bad just sucks at goat format lol go back to playing Special Ed Edison