What is an Invertible Load Center?

[@stephenholland6328]

Lug protectors - good tip, especially because you explained why.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, for sure. Thanks Stephen!

[@bobolones6834]

Yeah I didnt get why inverting it would be such a deal until he explained it. Great stuff!!

[@SparkyChannel]

@@bobolones6834 Thanks!

[@meawreg]

20yrs in the electrical trade....I wish I had these types of videos when I started. subbed.

[@SparkyChannel]

Me too! Thanks Brian!

[@anthonyelectric6045]

Morning Bill!! Nice explanation. Im in favor of the bottom fed method. Save all the room on the top for the branch circuits etc. enjoy the weekend

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, it's much neater that way. Have a great weekend!

[@garbo8962]

Large place that I retired from had over 30 84 circuit 120/208 panels where they feed panels from the top and all circuits feed from top of panel. Was policy to use only #10 wire for every circuit on a 20 amp breaker to firstbjunction box and no shared nuetrals. Major jam having over 75 white wires 80 black red or blue wires and at least a dozen #10 ground wires at top of panel no matter how many cablevties you use.

[@SparkyChannel]

@@garbo8962 Interesting. So you guys ran #10 to the first junction box and then #12 from there?

[@davidgagnon2849]

I kept thinking that looks like an accident waiting to happen, then you mentioned and pictured the lug protectors. It would be nice to see those actually installed over the lugs.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, I'll see what I can do.

[@SparkyChannel]

I'll shown the lug protectors in my next video.

[@davidgagnon2849]

@@SparkyChannel Thanks Mr. Bill!

[@safetythirdified]

This was very informative.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Anthony!

[@kennylavay8492]

questin here sparky are you allowed to use wire nuts or pig tails inside the breaker box to lengthen the short wires to reach the breakers.

[@weimaraner3240]

Now I'll always be looking for lug protectors.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, me too!

[@Gruntled2001]

Bill, great job, good info - I installed one of those lately, and they are great to work with!

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent!

[@Bluesman57]

Another great video, Bill. Very well explained as usual.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Mark!

[@timdyer7692]

Good information and informative video! Thanks, Bill!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Tim, have a great day!

[@GerstBladeworks]

Hey sparky! I was wondering if you could do a video on your tool bag load out? I've been in the trade for 10 years now and I always go back to the age old conundrum of what strippers to use/do I enjoy using the most. I would also like to see what you use for your small gripping/tightening my boss is trying to get me to try out the new Milwaukee small sets of channel locks. Just a thought, I'd really appreciate it! I think we all would! I respect you a great deal and I watch your videos daily. Hope you have a great day !

[@jorgehuizarsr8519]

Thanks sparky thanks for ur great help There's just tooo many sections on the code and I just keep on forgetting the sections Thanks

[@SparkyChannel]

Glad I could help!

[@jorgehuizarsr8519]

@@SparkyChannel Hi once again from fountain Valley cal Happy holidays 2022 Got any help for switch gears services Thanks 🙏

[@AaronVillatoroLuna]

Great video Bill!

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Aaron!

[@Jeff-Lawrence]

Hi bill from sparky channel Very informative and some code to boot. Thanks for another great one Who knew electricity could travel inverted😜

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks for watching!

[@michaelmartin5995]

Bill: I used your Amazon link, from a previous video, to purchase a Fluke 117. It appears I'm getting back into the trade somewhat. It was one of the "WWBASCP" choices. And - good video also! :)

[@SparkyChannel]

LOL! I love the "WWBASCP"! I own several meters but that's the one I use the most as an electrician. I love the Auto-V LoZ feature. I know that they aren't cheap but you bought quality. Great to hear from you Michael!

[@hodesto]

Another great and informative video. I watch alot of TV DYI shows it seems like most are filmed in Canada. Up there they install most main breaker panels horizontal. Is that way allowed in the US ? Horizontal looks like a much better way to install with branch feeds going straight into breakers.

[@SparkyChannel]

All the breakers would have to be up for on and down for off and the enclosure would need to be listed for such an installation.

[@joeblow9180]

Siemens doesn’t offer lug protection covers for main lug panels. The assumption being that the upstream breaker should be switched off prior to removing the cover of the main lug panel.

[@SparkyChannel]

Good info, thanks!

[@Notpublished]

My electrician installed the plug in neutral main breaker 100amp 20 space PN2020B100C Siemens model in my garage. I need to add a couple more breakers. He put all the grounds and neutrals on one side leaving no additional holes. There are two additional ground(1) and neutral(1) bars on the other side. Can I just use those? Or do I have to run a jumper? It is not the first means of disconnect. Thks

[@bretgreen5314]

Thank you

[@SparkyChannel]

Welcome!

[@vince6829]

Thank you for your videos. Question: In this case, given that the first means of disconnect is upstream of the main load center, you would remove the green bonding screw, correct?

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, that is correct. Great thinking!

[@donl1410]

I've used them since they were available.

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Don! Why not, they save money on feeder wire and make a much neater panel.

[@josemancia3689]

I don’t understand why Siemens put only a 15 plugs for neutral on the sides when you use the main panel bounding for grounds you will have the problems “ no more screws for neutral or ground

[@SparkyChannel]

On my PN series 30 space 48 circuit load center (shown in the video) there are 24 neutral terminals on each side for a total of 48. I'm going to do a video on plug-on neutral so I'll show that at the same time. Thanks Jose!

[@andymartinez6299]

Very helpful info. But can you route the conduit so the bus will be on top and not have the extra wire inside?

[@andymartinez6299]

I meant the lugs not bus.

[@SparkyChannel]

@@andymartinez6299 It would mean lowering the load center which is probably not practical.

[@MrTooTechnical]

Where I am, the feeder / line side of the panel has another metal cover over the entire wires. So it is very difficult to ever touch there wires.

[@SparkyChannel]

It's called a dead front. This enclosure has one as well but I didn't show it.

[@garydudgeon]

Great video Sparky.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Gary, have a great weekend!

[@jessejohnson159]

Ditti with Bret Green! 👍

[@Moekeyloek]

So the Main Overcurrent Device is located on the meter base?

[@josephknapick5307]

In this installation, yes...

[@SparkyChannel]

Excellent and important question. Yes, in this case it is.

[@Nic7320]

Very good info, right to the point.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Nic!

[@javiera3120]

Yeah I agree, great information.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Javier!

[@jeffmcewan1]

So my question is whether while using the NEC code with a main disconnect outside, can you have a traditional panel with main disconnect inside also? I assume now the outside panel with the meter and disconnect is the "main panel" and the inside panel is now an un-bonded subpanel?

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, that is possible. Check out this video which shows back-to back meter can and load center: Student Apprentice Semi-finals IDEAL National Championship 2021 from Nashville: kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3yrh4acoLSWe8U

[@mickwalker9660]

Looks like the ground screw in in the loadcenter in the first picture.

[@SparkyChannel]

Yes, that bonding screw is left loose by the installer so it's not acting as a bonding screw.

[@scottcrain2269]

Might be a dumb question, but you showed the code for circuit breaker off should be down. If this one had a main breaker instead of lugs, would that limit the orientation of this invertible panel to whatever orientation keeps the main on up and main off down?

[@SparkyChannel]

No, see my video: What is a Convertible Load Center and How is it Converted?: kzbin.info/www/bejne/baDSfqN8oa51sKs The main breaker turns on and off sideways.

[@scottcrain2269]

I did see that one, but just wondering if one moved up and down as opposed to left and right, would that impact the invertibleness? Or are you telling me that the only main breakers for this panel will be side to side?

[@SparkyChannel]

@@scottcrain2269 Yes, all the main breakers available for this load center open and close side to side.

[@michaelstewart3315]

I would go lug up if I’m coming out of bottom with circuits. And lug down if I’m coming out of the top.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks Michael.

[@Guardducks]

Saturday morning electricians school . Lol

[@SparkyChannel]

Yep. LOL!

[@WalkingPrepper]

If power is distributed across the back of the enclosure regardless if inverted or not, why is this an topic of discussion about if the inbound power cables are at the top or bottom?

[@SparkyChannel]

I understand what you're saying.

[@josephknapick5307]

Nice video Sparky... I have been looking for Lug Protectors for an Eaton BR 200 panel, without success... Any leads?

[@SparkyChannel]

Is there a large sticker on the inside of the panel door? If there is, they frequently call out part numbers for various accessories.

[@kennylavay8492]

Personally i think the load center should be wired the correct way. not inverted. as far as safety i would think it easier and safer if the lines were coming in at the top. what would happen if something is dropped with the panel cover off and the power was not off. dropped a screw driver or wrench anything that could bounce up from the bottom of the inverted set up and start arcing. i dont know. some people install out lets with the ground up for some kind of safety reasons and some install with the ground hole down. it just does not seem normal for the inverted set up. and how much wire would you actually save by doing this inverted.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@rupe53]

... while I agree with the general safety aspect, this is just saying it's allowed by code. Some might use this exception for mounting a panel above a wire tray or in the case of an *R* (rainproof) panel where you want no penetrations from the top.

[@bnasty267]

One could make the argument that minimizing the amount of feeder wire in the panel is the safest thing to do. If those come in near the bottom and you mount it with the main lugs/breaker on top, you have to snake those feeder wires all the way up one of the side gutters. Those thick feeders take up valuable space (as said in the video), but they're also in an area where damage is possible when installing breakers and more branch circuits. One slip when punching a knockout could hit those feeders and damage them. They are always live (and have lots of juice), even if the main breaker for the panel is off, so they represent a huge hazard. Keep the areas of the panel that can't be deenergized as small as possible, including feeder wires.

[@kennylavay8492]

@@bnasty267 I dont know it seems the codes are changing yearly. maybe this is so more NEC books can be sold. to me there is one way to do things the so called correct way, why keep changing things. seems the NEC is just like everything else a scam to make more money.

[@gfunkkowboy]

Uep

[@randallthomas5207]

How far from the controlling breaker can the lug only load centers be located.

[@SparkyChannel]

Very close. I don't think they could touch each other because the doors have to operate freely but they could be quite close.

[@randallthomas5207]

@@SparkyChannel For mechanical devices, I’ve been taught to have a means of disconnect with in ten feet, and with line of site from the access panel to the device. Just wondering if the NEC has similar requirements. You wouldn’t want meter and primary disconnect on the exterior of a garage, and a load center on the inside. At, least I wouldn’t.

[@ricoludovici2825]

@@randallthomas5207 Hmmm. The 2020 NEC says that the main disconnect has to be at the meter. So if you have a remote [outside] meter and main lug load center inside, you got a problem. The main disconnect at the meter requirement is so that the fire department or whoever can disconnect the house from the line-in without going inside.

[@daletyler5344]

@@ricoludovici2825 Just had everything outside on my house replaced, new mast head and meter box and new wires to breaker box, a few days ago. They didn't put a main breaker outside. however there is a throw arm inside meter box that is sealed by Ameren. I live in Illinois 30 miles east of St Louis Mo.

[@daletyler5344]

@@SparkyChannel Just had everything outside on my house replaced, new mast head and meter box and new wires to breaker box, a few days ago. They didn't put a main breaker outside. however there is a throw arm inside meter box that is sealed by Ameren. I live in Illinois 30 miles east of St Louis Mo.

[@wasimedoo7994]

Never know that

[@SparkyChannel]

Hi Wasim! Now you know.

[@lgninjalo]

Every levante loadcenter is an invertible load center if you are brave enough.

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@satterfieldelectric5504]

SUB FED

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@aaron74]

Main Lug Only Load Center = Subpanel, with ground and neutral segregation

[@SparkyChannel]

Thanks!

[@lgninjalo]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. You can have sub panels that aren't loadcenters as well. It doesn't seem to have any bearing on anything here.

[@aaron74]

@@lgninjalo I made the observation that the "main lug only load center" demonstrated in this video is a subpanel. So it would be wired as one, with neutrals and grounds NOT bonded together. Sorry my initial post is cryptic.

[@chrisott4892]

I'm with Aaron on this one, I had to go back to watch the beginning but I saw the green screw bonding what should have been an unbonded subpanel

[@aaron74]

@@chrisott4892 Oh! I honestly didn't notice that green bonding screw. Yes, it absolutely seems incorrect to have that screw installed.