What is Gender? | Philosophy Tube

[@rayflyers]

It can't be a coincidence that KZbin recommended this to me just now after Abigail came out.

[@grandunification]

I just came to the comments section to see if this was happening, because I also got it in my recommended feed!!

[@harpersmith1400]

SAME

[@msjeanjacket]

Sameeee

[@gingealex99999]

omg same

[@AzraelXJM]

I assume a lot of existing subscribers rewatching her old material has caused it to recommend them to other subscribers even if they've seen them. Hence why the ones about LGBTQ issues are popping up to the top. That Abi is "trending" and probably got a bunch of new viewers is probably lifting the rest too.

[@yuvalne]

She really did give us a lot of foreshadowing over the years, didn't she?

[@annieinwonderland]

Yes and it really hits differently now.

[@ciaotiziocaius4899]

she DEFINITELY did

[@thathalak7243]

He *

[@Amy-dq2lg]

@@thathalak7243 Wrong

[@thathalak7243]

@@Amy-dq2lg Maybe from your point of view it is wrong, however I use pronouns based on sex, not gender, and it's my right to do so, so neither of us are wrong

[@SnowCat-nu7gj]

The pause at 6:02 feels different now. So happy Abby is finally comfortable being herself. I may be an anti monarchist but I Stan the trans princess of terf island so hard

[@miratarnish6316]

Oh wow, that hit hard.

[@spmcdill]

Oof!!! Yeah!

[@ciaotiziocaius4899]

You can actually tell all her discomfort from her face in that second

[@jonesjermaine4387]

Guys have meatsticks and women have cockpockets that's gender explained.

[@liranpiade4499]

I'm pretty sure said trans princess of TERF island is also an anti monarchist.

[@hunterkelley3814]

As someone who is transgender, but still struggles to understand "why" , I really appreciate this video being put out here. Thank you!

[@PhilosophyTube]

my pleasure!

[@epistte]

I am also MtF trans' and there is no reason why we are trans. Science just doesn't know and it doesn't matter. Just be who you are, don't let others try to control you, and stop looking for a reason why to give yourself validation to be who you are.

[@na.meless]

Oh hi, i know this coment was 3 years ago, but i think i can help if you still need it! Even tho im cis, and it´s not my place of discussion, my best friend is trans (and some of my friends are too) and as such i have studied a lot so as to help her when some transphobe try to invalidate her and at the same time im studying psychology wich further made me interested in the subject so i can direct you to some readings But she "epistte" did offer some good advice: Be who you are and stuff

[@juliamay8580]

Same. I've spent years trying to figure out exactly what's going on with me.

[@cynthiaculiner9]

U r stupid, and I am a Jewish trans woman and I can proudly say god Hates you. He doesn’t not want to meet you.... I’m for real god is a bully and when you are trans you will be called crazy. And when you are called crazy because you are trans..... just remember that the fear of god is not real.... but it is very real.... and you can(not) hurt people with it

[@robins7730]

"What's your experience with gender?" Uhh, mostly just confusion

[@KimPlantsArt]

SAMEEEEE

[@jayphailey]

Same

[@richjuin9504]

Peanutbudda there’s a difference between the names not having any meaning, and acknowledging the complexity that had always existed.

[@richjuin9504]

@@jeff86ingThat would depend on what time period or society you want to go off of. Gender has been applied in so many different ways in the past. In the 15th century, children were called “girls” regardless of their sexual characteristics. Many societies have had 3 genders or more. “Man” used to be a gender neutral term in the past. Also, the terms “men” and “women” came about before we knew what chromosomes even were, so being a man or a woman never had any original bases in biology, it was terms used by the society, and applied in many different ways in the past. It merely served a social utility. Hell, there have been many people who have had XY chromosomes but have not developed what we would call male sexual characteristics. Due to all of this, being a women or a man is solely dependent on if that person wants, and presents themselves, to be a women or a man. Using any other criteria can be contradicted by pointing to past applications and what we currently know about how complicated sex can be in organisms, humans included.

[@mixstardust429]

@@jeff86ing Abstract: "Humans are weird fickle creatures, elaborately uncontrollable, and often indistinguishable; it is hard to define the most basic core concepts of what makes a man or woman" Sorry to crash into this... but the thing that defines a man in our modern society is not clear (not because of trans people), but there are some key factors: 1. They would go by he/him pronouns 2. They generally have more testosterone (and some other male hormones) than their counterpart [women] 3. They usually act "masculine" however that term is getting more vague by the second (again, not because of trans people) Actually thinking about it, there's not a lot of things that you know, differ from men and women, sure some slight physiological and psychological, but not really a lot. An example of how odd and ridiculous the statement: "what is a man?", is to use a different species: "what makes a male hyena?" You won't really find a lot of things about that, I mean they don't even have dicks, at least in the same way humans have anyway. In all honesty being human is also hard to dissect and prove, instead of defining undefinable things like: "what is a man/woman?" We should probably try to just improve the world we live in. Instead of doing the shit you and I are doing right now, and argue about things in a comment section, we should try to actually make change (both towards the left, the right, the state, and the individual) we don't live in a black and white world. ; we should treat one another with diginity

[@emmanuelmaury7843]

Anyone else come back here after her latest video?

[@rickardkaufman3988]

Me.

[@arecus54]

Sup

[@amygroark3704]

"the repeated, stylized actions that make up your gender are taught to you and enforced" ain't that the truth

[@Frommerman]

My immediate thought was "Wow, that title sure has changed in meaning lately, hasn't it?"

[@mackenziesexton6990]

KZbin decided to post this throwback gem on my recommends

[@lessevilnyarlathotep1595]

In my case, gender is an eldritch writhing, wiggling mass of pain that i can't examine for too long lest i succumb to madness. I am so tired all the goddamn time, so if someone ever asks me what my gender is i'll respond 'idk man i just work here'.

[@aynaasif1766]

I'm pretty sure that's just you trying to find out who you are mate. You can stay as either gender but express yourself differently and be a whole different personality at the same time.

[@brendanmccabe8373]

Sprite Pepsi damn shorty ok

[@evansageser6943]

That's certainly not an unheard of phenomenon. Some people are agendered, in that they don't particularly feel like any gender, some are non-binary, wherein they typically identify with something outside of male or female, there are gender fluid people who identify with different genders at different points and times. And there are gender casual people who don't particularly have issues with the gender they've been assigned but also don't really have any strong feelings towards being something else and it's mostly just easier to be what you are now than changing things if you're happy. Any and all of the above, as well as tons of other possibilities not mentioned are perfectly acceptable ways to express yourself and there's also no time limit to figure out what to call oneself, if one even wishes to label oneself at all.

[@sinzones3909]

god i feel this comment in my soul

[@therealgooseman2358]

I IDENTITY AS AN ELDRITCH DEITY WHO FEEDS ON HUMAN SUFFERING /s

[@vanya536]

I am nonbinary. People often ask me how do I know. Thr anwser is quite simple: I tried calling myself a guy and felt like shit. I tried calling myself a girl and felt a bit less like shit. Tried calling myself an enby and felt the least like shit.

[@usernamecreationgivesmeanx8148]

pft i love that, imma steal that now~

[@digitalperson3126]

Yea do it be like that

[@vinylwubs6987]

well it depends on what gender you were BORN with and thats your gender. i have solved it for you you are welcome

[@usernamecreationgivesmeanx8148]

@@vinylwubs6987 imma hope ur being sarcastic lol

[@vinylwubs6987]

@@usernamecreationgivesmeanx8148 it depends on your beliefs. That was sarcasim.

[@Deantrey]

I grew up in a very masculine type environment where masculinity and being tough were highly important. I remember reading Butler's book in college and just thinking about all the little performances I do on a daily basis, the manly man actions that make me who I am. Everything from the clothes I wear, the way I sit and stand, the way I walk, talk, gesture, the media I consume, the kinds of beer I drink, the list goes on and on. So that book actually motivated me to try different things I never would have, just because I'm naturally a rebellious person and I like any opportunity to rebel against the status quo (as long as it doesn't harm other people). So I just have been trying different things out over the years and I've learned a lot about myself and feel I have much greater freedom to grow into the type of person I feel comfortable being. Don't get me wrong, my masculinity is still very important to me, and I still catch myself saying shit like "real men don't X" But, I think those little acts of rebellion, rather than change me into something else, allow me, if only a little bit, to define what it means to be a man in my own terms.

[@SoSoKayla]

@300bpm Being a porno fraud doesn't make Judith Butler wrong, either. How embarrassing for you.

[@SoSoKayla]

@300bpm My apologies, I misread that. Now the sentence makes even less sense. So...thanks, I guess?

[@sin2pi974]

I love this and want this for all men. I hope some day we realize as a species that the gender binary is just regulated expression of the self. There are 7 billion people there should be 7 billion genders, each one new and wonderful. That’s the world I hope for. (Sorry for brushing the dust off the old post btw)

[@isitsweet9567]

@@sin2pi974 But there's nothing restrictive or regulatory about our bodies, or anyway there shouldn't be: the restrictive part is the overcomplication and social significance society has attached to gender in many different ways over the millennia, eventually leading to our society's assertion that gender is above biology. If we would just accept that our bodies are either male, female or occasionally hermaphrodites and then get on with life and being who we were, it would achieve that with much less hassle.

[@rimut230]

@@isitsweet9567 so you advocate for transphobia for the sake of simplicity? seriously?

[@negativespace261]

the youtube algorithm is officially sentient

[@DANGJOS]

This guy is way better than many of those Anti-SJW channels on KZbin, in my opinion. He doesn't shout some black and white "there are only two genders" crap. He actually analyzes it critically and talks about the philosophical aspects in these topics. That is more skeptical

[@arcticmog8517]

Welcome to the left, not the straw man left , the actual left

[@davidmb1595]

art에반, no there literally aren't only two. That's just a simple scientific fact, regardless your hurt feelings.

[@thisismyname9569]

Daum - What are they? List them. Literally and as a simple scientific fact, that is.

[@davidmb1595]

Well, I'm not an expert in genders, but I can surely name a few. There the Hijras and the Sādhin in India, we also have the Bacha posh in Pakistan, Fa'afafine in Polynesia, the Fakaleiti in Tonga, the Mahu in Hawaii, the Muxes in Mexican zapotecas, the Two-spirited among many nativa American tribes. And here in tHe wEzt" we have agender, bigender and others, but as I've said I'm not an expert. I hope that helps.

[@thisismyname9569]

Daum - All this amounts to is a redefinition of the word "gender". That's ok, words are used in new ways all the time, but it is wrong to say "there literally aren't two" genders or "it's a simple scientific fact" but only "under certain definitions of the word 'gender' there are more than two genders". Under the older meaning, where gender=biological sex, there are two genders, The guy that made this video fancies himself to be telling us what "gender" IS ( "gender is something ... more" ) but all he does is talk about various ways people have redefined the word. He, like you, aren't informing us of any scientific facts, but advocating the word be redefined in certain ways. This is semantics, not scientific fact. Regardless your hurt feelings. ;)

[@Xidnaf]

I'm unsure about a lot of this, but I've personally found these to be useful working definitions: "Gendering" is the mental act of subconsciously categorizing someone as "male" or "female." It is mostly reflexive and involuntary, the same way we look at a fruit and might immediately mentally categorize it as "apple" or "orange." Importantly, this might not line up with what you consciously know to be their biological sex. We don't do it for everyone we see, and not everyone might do it, but it's definitely something some of us do for some people. "Gender Identity" is simply how you feel about how other people gender you. I think this can describe a lot of different behavior pretty well. There are people who unambiguously really want to be identified men and want to talk and act and dress like men, and there are also men who want to be identified as men entirely for the sake of convenience and consistency, and both of them are equally "men" with regard to their gender identity. Likewise, "agender" people are people who don't want to be gendered either way, "bigender" people want to be gendered both ways, "gender-fluid" people want to be gendered different ways under different circumstances, et cetera. Importantly, this don't say why someone might want to be gendered one way or another. Because honestly I don't know. That's why I find this definition so useful: it's a way of thinking about gender that doesn't get into the nitty-gritty about where gender "comes from."

[@rorythewriter]

+Xidnaf Go back to making videos, linguistic brony!!

[@mattnelson9010]

This actually swell thought out take on gender

[@amiiboacid4785]

Woah!! I had nearly the same idea of gender that I developed a few months ago. So interesting to hear someone else say it all this time ago

[@benshaw5382]

Interesting idea. I feel this is far too simplistic a view on gender, though. Why would trans people, for instance, feel the need to be gendered as opposite from the gender typically associated with their biological sex? It surely isn't practical. What gives people the drive to express themselves in a certain ways such that their gender is identifiable (or not)? Your theory doesn't really explain the why of gender much. And also, gender is much more than performative. A male (i.e. XY, has a penis, identifies as male) who dresses up as a drag queen, and thus appears female, is not, in fact, a female or gender-fluid. There are psychological and maybe even biological aspects of gender, as well as the mere performative aspects.

[@jethomas5]

@@benshaw5382 Have you ever felt like your life had reached a point that you just couldn't live it any more? Did you drop everything and buy a ticket to Rio and start a new life in Brazil? Changing your gender is like moving to Brazil, but it's less drastic. Everybody who thinks they know you, has to look at you differently. But you don't have to break off all contact with them. If you REALLY want to change your life, then learn a new language, move to Brazil, AND change your gender.

[@SpideyDee]

First Race, then Marx, now Gender. You're a brave man, Olly. I hope many of the affective dislikers at least watch these videos till the end.

[@XenaBe25]

Olly doesn't seem to have many haters. Probably bc he expresses his views politely and eloquently, and thanks people for arguing with him when their arguments are reasonably well thought out. He's good, and not just bc I agree with him 70% of the time. (20% of the time, he's talking over my head ;D)

[@nicholas3354]

@@XenaBe25 He probably doesn't have many haters because his agenda agrees with the mass media mind control machine. I'd say if he is over your head 20% of the time he is fooling you 100% of the time. Seek to be over his head, seek Light.

[@Zymru]

nobody cares about your bogus religion mate go take a walk

[@jerrodshack7610]

@@nicholas3354 Oh yes, what a woke little boy you are for criticizing the media.

[@nicholas3354]

@@jerrodshack7610 Much love to you Jerrod ♥️. Reality is what it is; has nothing to do with what kind of little boy I am.

[@ZoeBateman]

this hits different now huh

at ​@​ when Abigail says "gender is... hm" I felt that.

[@sophiedufresne7459]

same

[@RedTailedSmeargle]

To be fair, so did she.

[@samwoodburn8810]

I'm so happy that Philosophy Tube exists.

[@PhilosophyTube]

+Sam Woodburn Me too

[@MeisterHaar]

+Philosophy Tube some very intreresting points, thank you!

[@seraphinduvolzairo5938]

@Free HongKong For example?

[@zealferal]

@Free HongKong We're waiting... 🍿

[@reeekid3631]

@@zealferal damn they're making us wait

[@The23PRNCSS23]

I was born female but I never felt female, but I also had no desire to become male either. It just about drove me crazy when I was younger. fortunately later in my life I realized I was agender/gender-neutral. it took me a long time to come to this realization because it's often more difficult to identify a lack of gender than an alternative one. Great video.

[@art-oq1pi]

Gender isn’t a decision It is not chosen There is only male and female And it has nothing to do with how you feel And gender is definitly not a social construct

[@IIxIxIv]

good job on coming to this video just to be fucking nitwit art에반

[@JamEngulfer]

@@art-oq1pi I'm confused as to why you'd leave this reply in response to someone talking about the gender identity they were stuck with. It's like you're just randomly posting your non-sequiter opinions.

[@nonoctoro4933]

Hey madam

[@trorisk]

don't confuse. Female is a sex not a gender. You can change you apparence all you want you will never produce spermatozoïds. And to born men (or to born women) can't make a baby even if one want to be the other sex/gender. If you think that your just a bigot. A believer like others religous people.

[@genesisfrog]

This hits different. Hope you're having a good day.

[@relearnalanguage]

Thank you Abigail-of-2016 for making this, and thank you Abigail-of-2021 for keeping all your old videos up! This is by far the best and most helpful video I've seen on this question and I'm so thankful to be seeing it 4 years into the future :)

[@jonesjermaine4387]

Guys have meatsticks and women have cockpockets that's gender explained.

[@liranpiade4499]

Her decision to keep her history public, and the value of her older videos has been inspirational. When I realised I'm a woman myself, I decided to keep my old stuff up too. My past is my past. I shouldn't hide it, I shouldn't be ashamed of it.

[@Fluffkitscripts]

“What’s my gender?” Nominally, male. But when I ask the question, I never get anywhere. I’m comfortable living as who I am, body and all. When I ask myself, nothing ever really elicits any strong emotions. Whether that’s because I’m just comfortable as a man or some other answer remains to be seen. Someone else in the comments section compared their gender to an eldritch creature that instills madness if examined for too long. Mine, I suppose, is more like a shiftless gray thing that sort of shrugs if you poke it but really doesn’t do much. I suppose if it doesn’t matter, there’s no harm in continuing to identify as a guy. Privilege is nice and explaining...whatever to everyone just seems like more trouble than it’s worth.

[@dirklamb3711]

Thanks, I feel this

[@innersalad]

you just verbalized the way i feel about my gender identity.

[@SoularSlothesk]

Nonbinary here! I have an odd dissonance with the performativity of gender. I tend to still present as feminine not because I am trying to fall in line with my afab status, just because I look more traditionally feminine as I exist. I don't often feel the need to perform or present my gender where it is visible to others, but don't mind if it is visible. My gender experience is a personal one and I've learned that it doesn't matter how others view me, it's how I view myself. No one's perception, except my own, truly applies to my own existence or being. They cannot see my internal world as a nonbinary individual so they have no authority on what that means.

[@Lukas-gr8cg]

What does that even mean? Nobody with a brain in their head just looked at the statement “I don’t often feel the need to perform or present my gender” and thought it made sense so could you please explain your delusional thought process

[@egodreas]

@@Lukas-gr8cg It made perfect sense to me. Their situation seems to be the exact same as mine, except I default to presenting as male. I'm large and hairy and have a deep voice and masculine mannerisms. I wear traditionally male clothing, because that is what I grew up wearing, and it raises fewer questions. But I don't necessarily feel much more masculine than feminine. I mostly feel that the distinction is rather unimportant, really, so I tend to just leave things as they are.

[@yeet6363]

Can u guys look in between ur legs if ur confused by such nonsense

[@egodreas]

@@yeet6363 You are talking about biological sex. We are talking about socially constructed gender. But don't worry too much if you don't understand the difference. It's quite common for stupid people to get these things wrong, and we forgive you.

[@yeet6363]

@@egodreas this "social construction" is usually based on biological sex, now people are trying to change that based on feeling. I believe that's not a good idea because how do we know those feelings are objective, or if they're based in delusion. In my opinion, gender should be based on biological sex. Also there's no need to put yourself on a pedestal of arrogance and insult those who disagree with u. No need to get high and mighty with me

[@OlleLindestad]

Thank you SO MUCH for including that dual bell curve graph (and the comparison to height)! This kind of statistical thinking is absolutely key to understanding sex differences. Everyone is familiar with the idea that *most* men are taller than *most* women, yet when discussion turns to sex differences that have more to do with neurology or endocrinology (i.e. hormones), people so often make the mistake of thinking not in terms of a *bimodal* distribution (overlapping bell curves) but in terms of a *binomial* distribution (all men are more aggressive than all women, etc). This problem includes people on both sides of the nature/nurture debate, so you also get a lot of people claiming that their friend who is a very aggressive woman single-handedly disproves biological sex differences. Statistical thinking in general is so valuable for understanding the world, so unintuitive a lot of the time (or at least not the way our brains naturally like to think), and something that I think schools should emphasize a lot more.

[@MrDanielZie]

Only that he does a really poor job at explaining the graph.

[@MrDanielZie]

Even ignoring the fact that his description of the axes is complete bullocks, how are there two bell-curves when physical sex is a spectrum?

[@oaxacachaka]

MrDanielZie physical sex is not really a spectrum. It depends how you define sex. It you get into things like body hair and musculature then sure. If you are talking about genitalia there are a limited number of options. Male female and both. There may be a neither but that would be less frequent than a both.

[@TarDeisa]

@@oaxacachaka Physical sex can not realistically be broken down to only genitals, as that is not how we ourselves percieve our own sex and it isnt how others would percieve it. Not to mention, that on a biological level there are many aspect governing sex beyond just genitals, in forms of hormones, body structure etc. This is why it is very much a spectrum, even genitals alone are very much a spectrum. The way you describe it, there would only be four options, but that is not the case. There is a spectrum from penis to vagina, with the vast majority of people falling into either end but there is still about 2% of the population that have genitals, that can neither be described as a vagina nor as a penis, even if retaining similarities to both, an intersex person being born with "both" is extremely rare. And if you add to that secondary physical sex attributes, you get a huge spectrum of possibilities, where still most people will fit on or around male and female but with a lot of people also having attributes, that make them differ significantly from these idealised extremes. Its not useful to just dismiss this as insignificant :P

[@oaxacachaka]

Xardian Noxus it’s not a really spectrum when the variation is limited to 2% of the population. Since this refers to people it really a matter of opinion at that point... so believe whatever you want.

[@phyphor]

This video hits a little differently these days. Thanks for making this, Abigail, and being true to yourself.

[@alexbroadie7314]

Anyone else back to watch it with fresh eyes after her recent powerful "Identity" video and announcement?

[@Mrs.Sardonicus]

People will take the time out to comment essays on what they think is Biology and other things they don't actively study to try to discredit something proven by neuroscience, but cannot take the one step to call someone by their preferred pronouns.

[@GoPieman]

pronouns (communication) and conscious self identity are social things, and as anything social/cultural, built wholly or partly upon, but one step removed from, direct biological traits. How would you argue biology has a monopoly on the definition of gender, to the point that it justifies telling people that their experience of themselves is "objectively wrong"?

[@anthonynorman7545]

@@GoPieman +

[@gjigaqaquj]

All trans people understand biological gender. But gender identity is a separate and very real thing.

[@gjigaqaquj]

Think about this for a second. Imagine a trans woman, she looks just like a woman sounds like a woman dresses like a woman, nobody can tell she is biologically male except the people that see her penis. You refer to her as she, you see her as she until, she tells you she has a penis and now suddenly, she can't possibly be a female, even though everything about her except the chomosomes and the dick prove otherwise. How on Earth does this sound reasonable?

[@nicolemartelli9033]

why is transgenderism any more of a mental illness than religion?

[@booksandbigideas8720]

“Some ways of speaking are performative” 4 years later: comes out as trans and is so glad she doesn’t have to TALK LIKE THIS anymore

[@danteezy945]

this hits different now.

[@linguaphilly]

I love how any video with "gender" in the title already gets 8 dislikes after 30 minutes. Who are these people?

[@bangboom123]

+George Whitehead Seeing some of your comments around the place. I am wondering what you think you are adding to this discussion.

[@daviddcain]

+George Whitehead Ollie gave several views on gender, one of which was performativism. No need to downvote the video if you disagree with one of them.

[@CCeR-jh3wn]

+jortjuuuuuh People who don't agree.

[@CCeR-jh3wn]

Kent Kerr You don't get to decide who should or should not be here. Nor do you decide the motivation of others.

[@CCeR-jh3wn]

Kent Kerr What a victim complex you must have to think that all disagreement should be banned. I thumbed down because i dislike the butchering of the english language just to push through an ideological agenda. I would love to have a discussion about transgender and all kinds of identities. When we start to speak the same language i will.

[@bubblegum-uo5pf]

funny that youtube is only now recommending this video to me, huh.

[@madolinwade8621]

I like the KZbin recommended this to me after she came out cause this video fully explains how she hid her transition. On camera, she was performing a male gender role but off camera she was settling into her life as a woman.

[@StarWarsMeg]

blink-182 for life! :D and I agree, I'm very happy for her.

[@Phase4TheProphet]

This is from the perspective of a cis male, so take with a grain of salt, but I've always wondered what it would be like if we stopped associating actions and modes of expression with gender. As a crude example, imagine that playing with a Barbie doll vs. playing with G.I. Joes there is no "gendered option". Do you think gender dysphoria would still exist? I've had a lot of trans friends tell me that there's a feeling of being "trapped in the wrong body", but I always wonder if that would happen if there were no gendered activities expected of that body. Maybe it's not relevant since we do still have gender roles, but seeing as how one of the larger goals of feminism is to eliminate gender restriction on particular actions I still think it's interesting to think about.

[@MrCmon113]

Perhaps in that environment, transgender people would just be perceived, by themselves and others, as especially effeminite men / masculine women.

[@thimblepunk7359]

Andrew Cartwright hi as a trans person I'd like to offer my two cents. Although unnecessarily gendering things and actions (ie toys) is undoubtedly damaging and can exhasabate dysphoria it is not the entirety of the thing. Many people now refer to two different models of dysphoria - social - or how ones gender is perceived or forcibly performed causing dissonance and distress and physical - or how ones body, sex characteristics and perceptions of cause a similar dissonance. Although removing gendered associations from things could debatably nullify social dysphoria is it unlikely to do anything to aid pyschical dysphoria. The youtuber kat blaque has a really good and better constructed video on this concept too, titled "if gender didn't exist would trans people"

[@CarbonUnitX]

Andrew Cartwright Trans people would still exist, at least those with body dysphoria. For example, I was always allowed to express myself freely and play with whatever toys and with whomever I wanted etc. My assigned gender didn't limit that and I always rebelled against gender expectations. Gender in general still doesn't actually mean that much to me or to a great deal of the people in my environment - human beings are human beings. I couldn't care less if someone says otherwise. So my sex, name and pronouns shouldn't be a problem. But it is - I'm still trans. Still needing hormones and surgery because of dysphoria that will not go away no matter what role women or men take in society. To be honest if I went by expectations I'd probably fit my assigned gender slightly better. Expectations were a big part of the closet.

[@ryptoll4801]

Andrew Cartwright I'm a trans person and I was raised in a very gender neutral way. Was never told I couldn't do something cause it was for the other gender, or told I had to do anything cause of my expected gender role. I still got gender dysphoria in my teens that stuck around until I transitioned. The way I viewed me being trans has always been very focused on my body and I how I perceive myself rather than how society at large or other people near me perceive me (meaning "passing"). As I was raised the way I was, I never really had that kind of thinking that certain objects or roles in society are gendered but saw them more as personal preferences. I was born a girl, played with barbies, liked pink, played with legos, liked drawing, had short hair and mostly wore boy's clothes. No one batted an eye at me. But as I still got the dysphoria and saw myself as male (still do), it's very focused on my body parts, that which really is gendered, and it was never really focused on gender roles for me. For the most part, I still prefer to take on female gender roles, but I want to be a guy doing so cause that's what's not causing me distress.

[@alvinrubik]

Andrew Cartwright wow so fucked up of you to say that just because your a straight cic male means you can't have an opinion, this is why I hate feminism, because it makes you feel like you have to apologise for who you are.

[@SynthieFlowers]

This hits different in 2021. Congrats, Abby!

[@anomienormie8126]

well this hits different now, don't it lads?

[@SoularSlothesk]

Just a touch!

[@harpersmith1400]

Perhaps a tad

[@ellenorbjornsdottir1166]

we're all lasses now:o

[@SuperTonyony]

Every human being has the right to decide WHO they are and what their life MEANS. Period.

[@lpforever1854]

@Anthrop illogical Your comment is far more fitting to yourself. Is there a reason as to why you are so easily offended?

[@sophiejornstein7845]

In this comments section, I've seen a lot of "there are only two genders" which is pretty much ignoring the larger topic set out by this video, that being what gender even is. If you're just here to stir the pot instead of having a legitimate conversation on this topic, I can't stop you, but I don't think it's greatly appreciated by the people here opening their minds to different definitions or sharing their experiences.

[@wyattguilliams9472]

It's not the gender people are arguing it's sex You are born male or female there's no changing that The video stated that Gender is self expression and your actions A girl trying to be a boy was once labeled as a tomboy A boy trying to be a girl was called a cross dresser LGB was a relationship PREFERENCE and everything following T as far as I can't tell is a Fetish or preferred life style The arguments being made is saying that genders are a sex not the other way around for the most part If a person identifys as a dog dresses up as a dog and acts like a dog are they a dog?

[@adamadam367]

Wyatt Guilliams, what does a dog have to do with self expression? What does a penis have to do self expression? The point is that words like man or woman, boy or girl aren’t just words to describe whether the person has a penis or not. There are already words for that: male/female. But when we say “be a man” we don’t mean “get a penis”. These words have connotations pertaining to archetypal behavior and values of the respective gender. So if being a man means more than just having a penis, then why should we define sex and gender as the same thing, when that is simply not how we use those words?

[@wyattguilliams9472]

@@adamadam367 I didn't say sex and gender were the same thing I said people make that argument

[@wyattguilliams9472]

@@adamadam367 And to answer your question I wasn't talking about an actual Dog so let me rephrase If a man or woman say they identify as a dog dress up as a dog and act like a dog Are they a dog?

[@adamadam367]

Wyatt Guilliams oh okay, I’m sorry for misunderstanding what you’re saying. I think you’re raising an interesting question here. If someone were to be more mature for his age and acts in a way that would make said person seem much older, then, could that person identify with an older age? Of course that wouldn’t change anyone’s age but rather the behavior associated with the maturity and wisdom commonly associated with the elderly. I honestly don’t know how identity works in these instances but I would be glad if you or anybody else is willing to give their opinion about this topic.

[@TalysAlankil]

I'd never heard of that bell curve model, and I think it's incredibly powerful in how it moves the language away from a "norm" and "deviation from the norm" model. (I also love playing the game of "Spot the TERF talking points" in the comment…)

[@desu38]

It's interesting watching this in 2021. She gives all these other people's opinions, but she never actually says what _she_ thinks.

[@russelljohnson7004]

Ain't it neat how the style of the channel moved away from dry lectures to more cinematic, expressive compositions, and all relatively recently!

[@fromthehills814]

I'm back after she came out. Love you Abigail!!

[@Rycluse]

"Yeah I'm just a really big ally"

[@SeymourDisapproves]

Revisiting this gem in light of recent events. Hello, Abby! 😃

[@yummyfrostboro2934]

This video makes me happy. Not only because I express myself as something and someone that others don't see, but also because I'm learning about myself being transgendered and society. Hooray for me being brought to this channel by Bird Keeper Toby.

[@Eon2641]

+Yummy Frostboro Welcome to the channel, hope you enjoy some more of Ollie's work :) There's a lot of thought provoking videos here, I learn something every time I tune in.

[@yummyfrostboro2934]

+Eon2641 I've enjoyed what I've seen so far! Thank you for the welcoming.

[@grubert3535]

+Yummy Frostboro At least you're not mayo.

[@XBLspartanx170]

pervert.

[@phthalo7401]

Here after Abi's transition :)

[@jali4000]

Great video. It's really actually not that difficult of a concept to grasp if you aren't unwilling to because of personal bias. When I took biology in high school many moons ago, the difference between sex and gender was a totally uncontroversial fact, like the mitochondria being the powerhouse of the cell. No one challenged it, everyone just wrote it in their notes and moved on. Fast forward a decade and you have the world we live in now. Unfortunately, I can't escape my biology, so I have to become an expert in this shit just to justify my existence. Even then, most people who talk shit don't want to listen. The difference between sex and gender is a fact universally agreed upon by biologists, psychologists, and sociologists around the world. The people who say "facts don't care about your feelings" are the most likely to be basing their entire worldview on what their gut tells them. They feel some innate revulsion towards us because of how society programmed them, and instead of deal with that, they decide to ignore reality.

[@celinak5062]

It's easier to scapegoat

[@skyes9146]

Was that really in your biology class? That's interesting

[@jali4000]

@@skyes9146 Yep! It was part of the curriculum at least. Very tiny section in AP biology and nothing about it was on the exam, so a teacher could have easily just skipped it for ideological reasons, but mine wasn't the kind to do that. Incidentally, it's heartening to see that just in the year and a half since I made this comment we've made some considerable strides in terms of acceptance and with the upcoming administration things don't look quite so bleak. Maybe my outlook has just changed as things have gotten a hell of a lot better for me personally since, but I do genuinely feel like things have gotten better overall, at least in America, we've just become more polarized, like the transphobes are fiercer but there's a lot less of them, and the average person is coming around to look at them the same way they look at racists and homophobes, like it's becoming slightly less socially acceptable to be that way.

[@skyes9146]

@@jali4000 ah I see, it's really never been a part of the curriculum in my country, though education here in general is pretty bad off in my opinion. If you really want to know something here you're better off researching it yourself Still, it's good to see improvement no matter where it may be in the world. While polarisation in America does seem pretty bad hopefully something good will come of it like you mentioned

[@clizbot]

I don’t know. I think I have a pretty good grasp on the subject as do many other people antagonizing gender. I don’t get how it isn’t a personality if it ultimately has little to do with biology or why gender is even a thing in the first place. It makes more sense to me to let male and female mean nothing more then biology and gender to be trashed. That way we just let people be. I’d be curious to know what happens. Thought? Yea I know this is old but this is still a question I have.

[@JoshuaLorian]

My experience with gender is weird... I feel 100% like a woman, but when I transitioned, I felt stifled by even female clothing norms. I jumped between thinking of myself as completely female and non-binary, but after more time spent among more accepting people, I realised that I was doing it wholly wrong. I don't need to dress like a woman to be or feel like a woman. I present myself as female in general, and still identify as such, but I've stopped caring about binary clothing norms and now I just wear whatever I want. If I wanna wear over the top lolita fashion, I will. If I wanna present myself androgynously, I will. For me, tying any clothing, music, media, etc to a specific binary (WOAH CHECK OUT THESES EAR PLUGS BUT THESE ONES ARE FOR WOMEN SO THEY'RE PINK DESPITE FUNCTIONING IDENTICALLY) is silly, there's nothing intrinsically female about pink, or or cute stuff, or dresses, etc etc. and these things are most definitely social constructs.

[@heartache5742]

i think that gendering stuff is helpful personally, it's another facet of "taught" gender performance - if you think about what you do and don't like/feer like, you can make conclusions and those are for fighting against gatekeeping

[@ladyqueenorchidbug3754]

Thank you for this. Even in a UNIVERSE of gender realities, your experience seems to be one of the very, very few that resembles my own. Of course I enjoy being girly. But that takes work for anyone, trans or cis. EVERYONE dresses down. Are we going to be policed for HOW we dress down? Or how often? As you say, we know ourselves; we know WHO we are. Hopefully, if enough of us live our own realities, society will get bored, and stop making a fuss. It can be done. Live who you are. And it isn't weird. It's just a little uncommon.

[@mathildavere8966]

@@ladyqueenorchidbug3754 I don't know that there are any women who are comfortable with all of the norms deemed feminine.

[@AM-ne4uo]

So what makes you 'nonbinary'?

[@leilahassani2988]

i love that this was recommended to me now lmaooo congrats abigail♥️

[@Frahamen]

That Man Who Isn't There character sure has a lot of backstory.

[@BirdKeeperToby]

Learned something ^_^

[@alvinrubik]

Bird Keeper Toby I love your videos, so I feel the need to correct you. Gender and personally are different, if you go for personality over looks, that doesn't make you pansexual or whatever, it makes you different. Some people look for that, in some cases even I care about personality over looks, but it doesn't make me anything different than male, I believe in a binary system because people that are gay are not gay gender, assigned genders are not norms, people are naturally attracted to different things based on your sex/gender, for all of human history we have had 2 genders only, it is the truth.

[@milascave2]

alvin: you are both wrong and completely incoherent.

[@DANGJOS]

Alvin Rubik What the hell are you talking about??

[@BlackReshiram]

Oh my god its toby! :D Same though

[@fuzzbone]

BIRD KEEPER TOBY SAYS TRANS RIGHTS

[@theraggingscorpion]

I have come to a similar conclusion as Serano. I discussed this with my genderfluid partner, actually. She felt for the longest time that gender as a concept was a load of hokum, and she came to be less sure of that upon meeting me and other trans people. Similarly, I’ve generally been a constructivist, but I always felt there had to be a biological component to it because all we are is limited by our bodies. I racked my brain about this conundrum because, for me, my gender was certainly not up to others who had tried to call me a boy. I was certain I wasn’t, but I couldn’t figure out why I wasn’t. I eventually decided that gender must be influenced by the body, maybe when it only comes to the basics (I do/do not feel comfortable with parts x, y, z of my body), and performativity determined the rest. I am in favour of both changing societal views of gender/abolishing it altogether as well as “looking the part” for myself because I do believe that gender is a social construction, and “social” implies a two way street. I can never be comfortable in my own body if nobody recognizes me as I believe myself to be, and others should loosen or destroy their conceptions of gender in favour of a view which allows for the flourishing of the diversity of lived experiences.

[@lisee123]

I got this recommended to me, and it’s interesting to see pre-transition Abigail break down gender so well, albeit in a much plainer format than her more modern videos.

[@AndesMints94]

As an autistic afab person, I say that I never really understood gender and I'm not about to start now. lol

[@amalofoto]

Saaaaaaameeee

[@jackriver8385]

honestly, same. Being trans I get asked all the time to explain what a gender is and... idfk??

[@Tues48]

That's why I'm enby

[@nesser52]

Same 🌈

[@etherealradar]

DAMN RIGHT, constructs are something we pick up to help ourself or others. If it dont help, you dont need to pick it up, and you can surely drop it!

[@ilinfestissumam3232]

This is a great video that so many people need to watch. I’ve had to explain the difference between gender and sex to so many people in my personal life and they almost always change their mind on transgender folks. I admit as a Cisgender man to being woefully ignorant and downright abusive on this issue. in the past. I just didn’t know, and I am so sorry for perpetuating transphobia out of sheer ignorance.

[@8Rincewind]

I wonder why this is in my recommendations again :D

[@ryba4439]

EPIC EGG MOMENT

[@1a2b3c4d_]

Philosophy tube is full of them. She completely foreshadowed her coming out like the drama queen she is and I stan

[@justajackal3574]

My problem is the "Don't shove or put people into boxes and stereotypes"-ideology or movement, has gone from just that to "look, now you can choose from way more boxes". Be yourself. Don't try to feed your need for a feeling of belonging by putting yourself into groups or by assigning tags to your being/identity. *You are more than checkboxes. You are you.* Premade terms will never be enough to describe you in all your facets. Language is our limit right now. Unless we can communicate by sending impressions, feelings, and experiences we will never come close to understanding each other completely. The security and absoluteness that those tags and groups give are false friends and will be obstacles in your way to growing. At least that is what I think.

[@stevenclark5173]

@@jeff86ing Please cite the exact law and text where they are making this a crime. (Hint: If you say C16 then we all know your an idiot who hasn't read that bill).

[@lordtullus9942]

@@jeff86ing I just want to know the truth.

[@skyes9146]

I think labels can help to describe our experiences to others, but I agree that they can be limiting especially when taken to an extreme

[@cipherrephicsamplename554]

this sure did age didnt it

[@lulua6203]

What a fun one to be watching in 2022. So proud of you, Abigail :)

[@Jane-oz7pp]

This hits real different after her latest video

[@torrinmaag5331]

This hits different now. Love your work, from 2016 to now :)

[@ColossalRay]

this video just saved my ass because i finally understand what Butler was on about and my exam is today. Thank you good sir.

[@lorddelrenarthwipeiii1546]

I've never been sure why the concept of gender is one that is inherantly related to who we are as individuals. I at no point during my younger years felt any inclination to perform certain actions or behaviors based upon gender- outside of instances where "Manly" behaviors were simply the practical ones, or "feminine" behaviors were a more tactfull way of handling a problem. Nor have I to this day used gender as a form of expression. It's always struck me as a rather odd and crude cognitive social tool than people use to help understand each other- and that it is often misused.

[@Ian-ei3jy]

because feminists are obsessed with gender and you as a normal person aren't.

[@paradigmarson9586]

I think biological sex-correlated mental events and behaviours and the biological sex-related system that reinforces them are significant. The degree significance can be over-estimated. It can also be determined by speech and other social acts.

[@gravastar333]

@r timimi so just because you have an experience about yourself, anyone with a different experience is wrong or crazy or irrational? By your logic I can disregard your experience on the same grounds, and we are no closer to understanding each other. Enjoy your life only communing with people who share your worldview, experiences and opinions. Quite a "safe space" you have constructed there. I hope it is comfortable.

[@hayk3000]

@@gravastar333 you sound rather aggressive friend

[@gravastar333]

@@hayk3000 quite the contrary friend. I am merely pointing out the issue that if we only respect the people that are just like ourselves we are no closer to understanding each other. I want to understand you, and be understood by you. The only way we can start this exchange is on a foundation of trust that each of us knows ourselves and is qualified to speak authoritatively about our own lives. Questioning someones authoritative voice in their own life destroys that foundation, and with it any chance at mutual respect and understanding.

[@Xanaklusmos]

This synthesis holds up so well. The relationship between gender, the object, and gender, the subject, is dialectical. I used to agonize over the difference between gender identity and gender expression for myself, but the answer is that identifying is just one, albeit essential, component of performativist expression that contextualizes ones performance and how one engages with societal norms. I wonder if Abigail would say anything differently today, or what she would add.

[@stephaniehight2771]

I really appreciated the overlapping bell curve description for gender identity vs biological sex. For me, it was a simple illustration which helps to clarify a complex issue. The video overall was thought provoking. Well done.

[@userin2963]

As someone who's been intensely following feminist discourse the past couple years, I've had a feeling before that a vast part of the community misinterpreted Butler.

[@anweshakar146]

How?

[@saffodils]

@@anweshakar146 I assume in the way Olly mentions in the video: thinking that performativity is about playacting gender rather than about reinforcing the system of gender through repeated actions. I've seen that misconception a lot too. It's a lot more fun to think that gender is like drag, but it's a lot more motivating to see it as a system of oppression that we make each other complicit in through our everyday actions. The latter identifies and describes a problem that we can address, while the former just allows for more choice within the oppressive system.

[@anweshakar146]

@@saffodils Yes, of course. I also think it's a very positive and hopeful way to see it. I had no idea it was being misinterpreted.

[@sircory1337]

Serano’s “Whipping Girl” really helped me understand and come to terms with my gender identity.

[@fignewton7968]

After discovering this channel just a few days ago, I've learned almost as much about the hard-headedness of people, particularly on the internet, from the comments as I've learned about Kantian philosophy and metaethics (and yesterday I didn't even know metaethics was even a word). I recall planning on putting some well thought out theories here, but after reading the comments I've forgotten all of that and merely feel a barely resistible urge to shout at my computer screen.

[@PhilosophyTube]

Yeah, sometimes the comments are a little dodgier than usual. This episode in particular suffered because someone made an angry reply video to it without watching the whole thing and all their followers came over to make the same errors.

[@fignewton7968]

I suppose it's to be expected with such a controversial and misunderstood subject, I'm just happy to see that these kinds of comments are rare on this channel and most videos have very insightful and thought-provoking comment sections. I look forward to being a part of this community, after catching up on a rather dizzying number of interesting videos to watch!

[@PhilosophyTube]

Yeah, welcome to the channel!

[@alexanderyoakum308]

Great video! However, I think you are glossing over some important aspects of Butler's theory and oversimplifying at times. As a poststructuralist, Butler is deeply skeptical of any idea of a stable self (or even, a self at all). In fact, she states in Gender Trouble that we are tricked into thinking that gender has some internal core (substance) by this reiterative structure of acting. In her analysis of drag, she reveals that performativity isn't merely a descriptive way of understanding gender, but is also a means of revealing that gender, at its core, is a fabrication because it has the possibility of being imitated. Another thing that you may have missed in Butler's theory is the unique function of sex, and what role that plays in relation to gender. She is deeply skeptical of the notion that something can be "pre-discursive" so she also submits sex to a similar paradigm (check out the Introduction of Bodies That Matter, specifically, the concept of citationality).

[@FirstRoyceMusic]

Alexander Yoakum hi, I know this comment is very old, but I have a question, if you have the time. You said that butler claims that because gender can be imitated by drag, it isn't as "real" as we think it is. But does this truly mean the gender is being imitated? I, as a man, can choose to have sex with other men, but I am still attracted to women, and that would not change regardless of my choice of who to sleep with. In the same sense, even if a person is in drag, I would presume most of them do not feel as if they genuinely are the gender they are in drag as-- compared to actual trans people, who do feel that they are the gender they perform. Doesn't this difference disprove her point? (Or perhaps maybe I misunderstood her point?) thanks!

[@cynicalchemist8477]

Aged very well, Abigail, aged very well.

[@jonathanewen7585]

In the comments: people who can't handle the truth of this video lash out with anything they can.

[@paradigmarson9586]

I haven't noticed any lashing out. Some disagreement, not everything argued at Philosophy degree level (most likely my own comments included), but everything attempting to be meaningful, true and relevant statements.

[@ninamimi6622]

What truth? There's nothing concrete.

[@trevormillin506]

So how can your statement "There's nothing concrete?" be concrete in and of itself?

[@ninamimi6622]

Oh I wasn't meaning in general. Just this video says people can identify with whatever they want, so it's purely subjective and so I don't see what's mean by truth in this context.

[@Oldstalk]

You cannot call it truth, when it is theory.

[@obligatecarnivore6774]

Ah, vintage Ollie. Gender is performance. As well I love kilts and recognize that high heels historically are masculine. The world would be a lot more colorful if normal gender roles were cast off

[@Autospiral]

Serano's model feels the most intuitively right to me. It explains my own experience and it resonates with my intuition that trans-ness has at least some biological components while acknowledging that gender is socially constructed.

[@sebastianr9101]

KZbin recommended gets it

[@aModernDandy]

Your summary of Julia Serano’s work sounds like she’s articulating something I’ve been struggling to put into words/ find in someone else’s writing for a long time! Thank you very much for bringing this to my attention!

[@AutumnForHire]

Guys I think she figured it out

[@ernstthalmann4306]

This is just a prequel film at this point.

[@ernstthalmann4306]

@@jpbart1390 you're not as smart as you think you are

[@ernstthalmann4306]

@jpbart1390 who's asking you to pander to anything? Seems to me you just relish conformity and can't stand people who are different than you out of fear of your fragile sense of masculinity.

[@whatifiputsomethingsilly]

I clicked on this video and I immediately got an ad for Trump's reelection campaign. YT really isn't good at targeted ads, are they?

[@omp199]

Very good, from the sounds of it. They know to target unbelievably gullible people who will lap up anything that they are told.

[@omp199]

@Comrade Braithwaite Who said anything about "gender traditionalism"?

[@whatifiputsomethingsilly]

@Comrade Braithwaite? I didn't mention anything about "Gender traditionalism".

[@omp199]

@Comrade Braithwaite I assumed that by "gender traditionalism" you meant supporting the idea of distinct social roles for men and women. Feel free to clarify, if you want. But nothing in my comment referred to that subject. I was just referring to the fact that despite their smug self-confidence and baffling popularity, Messrs. Trump and Thorn have all the intelligence, knowledge, and insight of a pair of flatworms. They might be poles apart politically, but at heart they are the same: empty-headed buffoons driven by an inflated sense of their own importance. And I'm happy to insult anyone who takes either of them seriously.

[@sophiedufresne7459]

5:39 "and, therefore, [cis people] don't experience that very painful gender dissonance" - damn, i can see the pain behind your eyes now, can't believe you lived so long as a closeted trans woman :( I'm really happy you can live your truth now

[@IanJAGreen]

This has aged exceptionally well 💚💚💚

[@egotisticEgg]

Top 10 Videos That Predicted The Future

[@actualgamerowned]

Anyone here after the reveal?

[@WhichDoctor1]

As an enby who’s only come out, only even come to the realisation that there was something to come out as, in my 30s I totally agree with the idea that gender is in some form inherent to the person. I spent 30 odd years performing maleness but it always felt like I was playing a part with a script where some of the pages were missing and others had been translated from Korean via Zulu in google translate. The more I act and dress the way I want to the less like an act it feels. But I would go further. I believe that we all have an idea of ourselves in our own head with details far more granular than gender. As a couple of examples I would pout out the KZbiner jessica kellgren fozard. She dresses like a 1950s pin up model all the time. She has ever since she’s had the capability to do so and even though no one she knew growing up looked remotely like that. She has described not dressing like that as feeling profoundly uncomfortable. I would also point to the dissociative identity disorder community. People with DID have many different separate alternate personalities who can often have radically different and very definite ideas of their physical appearance, styles of dress, gender, race, even species. They are artefacts of things that were going on in the brain when this alters were created, usually in moments of extreme trauma. But I would suggest that they demonstrate that the brain is able to hold specific templates of that the personality looks like that are not necessarily in any way related to the body that brain in carried around in. Like with the bell curves discussed in this video It would seem that most people’s internal identity is roughly the same as their body but I would argue that is just the middle of a very complex bell curve

[@goblindude4242]

hits different now, huh?

[@trashgoon]

getting this re recommended since i watched her coming out video lol

[@pluspiping]

HELLO, I am a Nonbinary "enby"! And yes, I learned about the term "nonbinary" on tumblr in 2015. However, I had been wishing since 2002 that there was a way I could just "not do gender". And lo and behold! There it is! So I live my life just sorta. Vibin'. Do I wish my body was different? Nah, I have one that works okay. Every type of body has its pros and cons. But gender? No thank you. You go ahead and enjoy having it. I'm gonna enjoy not having it. And that's it!

[@drflaggstaff9008]

Emphasis on "intrinsic inclination" I can say I'm not sad. I can say I'm not consious. I can say "I don't gender". That doesn't mean I don't.

[@pluspiping]

@@drflaggstaff9008 honestly I don't know what you're trying to say and I don't think I really care?

[@pluspiping]

ANYWAY I found my old comment on this video and I'm just going to copy and paste it here again because this is STILL what I was trying to convey with my brief comment above. This video helped me clear up my understanding of what different people have said about gender, even though I've been decidedly nonbinary for over 20 years. Thank you. From my experience, and my conversations with my other trans friends, gender is not a choice, it's not biology, and it's not just a 'sex', even if you call it "subconscious sex". Personally, my gender (ie. the kinds of things I'm comfortable identifying with) has never had anything to do with my body. Which is why Sarano's argument that "your gender is your subconscious idea of what your body should look like" makes me uncomfortable. While many trans people have wanted to change their bodies, and doing so has been a benefit to them, in my case I'm fine with my body and don't feel like changing it. When it comes to gendered presentations, I dress up my body like however I'm comfortable and I do whatever feels most natural to me. You could argue that my lack of specialty in performing one set of gendered acts is what makes me nonbinary, but the truth is simply that I don't feel comfortable identifying as a woman, nor do I feel comfortable identifying as a man. That's enough for me to identify as nonbinary EVEN IF I seem to be matching a binary gender performance. So to answer "what the hell is gender", my answer is closest to Sarano's, except that I'd say it's not a subconscious sex, but a subconscious identity. Sometimes that identity has a different body than your current body. Sometimes your body is irrelevant to your identity. I'll admit my attachment to gender is so weak that I don't personally know what it's like to Identify As A Gender, but from my observations, it seems kind of like having a very strong personal connection to an aesthetic. If we recall some high-school-esque categories of people like the punks, the preps, the goths, etc, you'd get a lot of different identities and some very strong attachments to those identities/aesthetics. If you forced goths to dress like preps, and vice versa, they'd probably react with disgust at being forced into a different aesthetic. That forced wardrobe change is not one they identify with, it doesn't match their understanding of themselves, and it's not how they want to express who they are. It's not necessarily biological, but it is something very personal to them that they can express their natural self with THIS SPECIFIC aesthetic. That's honestly what gender sounds like to me. A very broad aesthetic, and one that comes with a lot of social ideas about what people in that category should be like and what they should do. And allegiances to aesthetics can change. It doesn't mean your previous expression was fake, if you were expressing yourself genuinely. I've gone through a couple aesthetics since childhood, from prep to goth to... skater?? I guess?? The point is I was looking for a way to express myself. I wasn't faking, I was trying out identities and aesthetics. I've pretty much settled into a plain-but-practical look, and a "yeah ok whatever" feeling about gender in general, so I can sum it up this way: If that's what you're comfortable doing, then that is a hint - but not a determination - of your identity. And you are the only one who can determine what your identity is.

[@ilexdiapason]

thanks for repping the older nonbinary community! i was born in 2002 and a lot of the time i feel like the whole community's young like me but it's nice to hear from nonbinary people who already knew how they felt before i even knew what gender was :)

[@pluspiping]

@@ilexdiapason Sure! I'm glad to be here, and I'm glad you're here, too! I hope you'll get to see nonbinary people of all ages. I know of many who are even older than me! And I'm definitely grateful to all the young (and old) people who've been creating this community online in the last decade. It's wonderful!

[@anweshakar146]

The only video ever that paints the clearest, most complete picture and takes into account everything. I keep coming back to this whenever I get caught in the tug war between the two types of theories, it helped me reconclie them after years of confusion. Could never thank you enough.

[@anweshakar146]

@@jeff86ing Deconstruct them. They mean a lot of different things for different people across time and space.

[@anweshakar146]

@@jeff86ing Of course not. That is the whole point, gendered categories are fiction.

[@anweshakar146]

@@jeff86ing Because as I said, the definition of it or how they feel about it is different for everyone personally and you should respect that.

[@anweshakar146]

There is mo universal definition of "man" or "woman" or any other gender category.

[@ethanmagnuson2988]

RELEVANT AGAIN

[@veronikavarakova3927]

am i the only one who's here after she came out?

[@franticranter]

That intrinsic inclinations model is the most nuanced approach it's great

[@sorahatumna1095]

So

[@leopillows3246]

So

[@givemeeoriwilldestroygov]

so

[@Physigist]

so

[@synchro4309]

So

[@whatcanidooo]

So

[@emisunflowers]

Watching this after the big announcement :)

[@MalinFluff]

One of my profs is using this video in their lecture! Which made me a whole lot more motivated for that course as a whole!

[@emmasayers7576]

I am a mostly heterosexual CIS woman who has often been misgendered as either male or trans female. I feel solidarity with trans women in the sense that, growing up, I would often be disappointed by my tall frame when looking in the mirror and would prefer to be seen like the pretty blonde girls in my class. Maybe that was more because I wanted to be admired and even desired as they were, rather than that was who I was inside. I remember telling myself every day to try harder to be girly... and then found myself boisterously playing tig in the playground with the boys by breaktime. As a teenager and young adult, I found myself fancying effeminate men, who (disappointingly for me) would turn out to be gay. I wasn't masculine enough for them, and I was too masculine for a lot of hetero men, who would be intimidated or somewhat put out by my masculine physical presence and non submissive personality (some would even try to get me to wear flats shoes so they didn't feel emasculated because they were a bit shorter than me).These days, I have grown to appreciate my somewhat masculine womanliness. The love of a beautiful trans woman has helped. We're like both sides of a mirror that got a mishmash of masc and fem traits!

[@geenadasilva9287]

i find Butler really opaque. i tried to read Gender Trouble but couldn’t understand it at all. thanks for making it accessible to idiots like me x

[@Tarragonable]

I'm a non-binary person and my boyfriend is transgender, he did his entire dissertation on Judith Butler, gender performativism and social constrictivism, so I knew a lot of this already. Even so, you presented it in a really clear and understandable way! Thank you for making this ^^

[@TheCh1212]

As a Christian i find this video particularly fascinating, as it challenges me to understand my own view clearly, for i have always believed that one's gender was constituted by their physical makeup. Those mentioned in the video bring up great points. Its not just that you choose what you are, you are you are, truly adding a pinch of objectivism the case. There is also the argument of the subconscious: that one is somewhat aware that they are a different gender, yet there is also overlap for what they were born physically. Again, as a Christian, this makes me ask alot of questions. Like, why and how does God connect gender to physical make up? The spiel on subconscious identity seems to me to be another word for moral decision making, as moral decision making is made up of conscious awareness of the actions one takes, as well as a making deep subconscious decisions rooted in ones moral nature. As far as the first viewpoint, however, it seems impossible if the second one is also true.

[@pluspiping]

This video helped me clear up my understanding of what different people have said about gender, even though I've been decidedly nonbinary for over 20 years. Thank you. From my experience, and my conversations with my other trans friends, gender is not a choice, it's not biology, and it's not just a 'sex', even if you call it "subconscious sex". Personally, my gender (ie. the kinds of things I'm comfortable identifying with) has never had anything to do with my body. Which is why Sarano's argument that "your gender is your subconscious idea of what your body should look like" makes me uncomfortable. While many trans people have wanted to change their bodies, and doing so has been a benefit to them, in my case I'm fine with my body and don't feel like changing it. When it comes to gendered presentations, I dress up my body like however I'm comfortable and I do whatever feels most natural to me. You could argue that my lack of specialty in performing one set of gendered acts is what makes me nonbinary, but the truth is simply that I don't feel comfortable identifying as a woman, nor do I feel comfortable identifying as a man. That's enough for me to identify as nonbinary EVEN IF I seem to be matching a binary gender performance. So to answer "what the hell is gender", my answer is closest to Sarano's, except that I'd say it's not a subconscious sex, but a subconscious identity. Sometimes that identity has a different body than your current body. Sometimes your body is irrelevant to your identity. I'll admit my attachment to gender is so weak that I don't personally know what it's like to Identify As A Gender, but from my observations, it seems kind of like having a very strong personal connection to an aesthetic. If we recall some high-school-esque categories of people like the punks, the preps, the goths, etc, you'd get a lot of different identities and some very strong attachments to those identities/aesthetics. If you forced goths to dress like preps, and vice versa, they'd probably react with disgust at being forced into a different aesthetic. That forced wardrobe change is not one they identify with, it doesn't match their understanding of themselves, and it's not how they want to express who they are. It's not necessarily biological, but it is something very personal to them that they can express their natural self with THIS SPECIFIC aesthetic. That's honestly what gender sounds like to me. A very broad aesthetic, and one that comes with a lot of social ideas about what people in that category should be like and what they should do. And allegiances to aesthetics can change. It doesn't mean your previous expression was fake, if you were expressing yourself genuinely. I've gone through a couple aesthetics since childhood, from prep to goth to... skater?? I guess?? The point is I was looking for a way to express myself. I wasn't faking, I was trying out identities and aesthetics. I've pretty much settled into a plain-but-practical look, and a "yeah ok whatever" feeling about gender in general, so I can sum it up this way: If that's what you're comfortable doing, then that is a hint - but not a determination - of your identity. And you are the only one who can determine what your identity is.

[@jessicak.7814]

if we put people on a bell curve with feminine on one end and masculine on the other don't we need to define what those things are? what does it really mean to be masculine or feminine?

[@AM-ne4uo]

Femininity and masculinity are sex stereotypes. That's what 'gender' is all about. This ideology is so backward.

[@soumelee5661]

@@AM-ne4uo that was a great way to define it and put it into words. ive never really believed in these terms "masculine" or "feminine" and ur sentence made it very clear why... thanks

[@krissingleton4292]

It sounds like "gender" is just your "personality' in relation to a) your own biological sex; and b) the typical personality traits exhibited by those of the same biological sex.

[@TheLoneBit]

EXACTLY! THANK YOU! The reason there can be an infinite amount of "genders" is that there are an infinite amount of PERSONALITIES! BECAUSE THERE CAN BE A NEAR INFINITE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE WITH INFINITE COMBINATION OF PERSONALITY TRAITS! Yet somehow in order to justify chemical castration and people acting nuts... you add in a dash of: "Well science says there is no difference between males and females... but wait this female has male-like brain structures... also what about intersex people... surely that small demographic of people (who can't have children) accounts for something when it comes to healthy fertile people who need completely different medical treatments... AND LET'S NOT FORGET GENDER IS A SOCIAL CONSTRUCT! Look... it is just personality... The word they are looking for is personality... As for trans people if it is based entirely on (AND I HAVE TALKED TO TRANS PEOPLE, THEY HAVE CONFIRMED, I HAVE TRANS FRIENDS) how you feel male or female shapes how they feel they present. (EVEN IF ALL OF THEIR "*PERSONALITY*" TRAITS ALIGN TO THAT OF THEIR SEX'S AVERAGE TENDENCY TO DISPLAY THOSE "PRESENTING" ACTIONS) In other words to claim that you are male when literally everything about you contradicts that down to your personality... the term male no longer has meaning anymore... and vice versa. But literally, every trans person I have met wants to either chop off their penis or build one from the ground up to change their "SEX" AND IF THEY DON'T WANT TO DO THAT THEY TRY TO EMULATE THE OPPOSITE SEX WITH HORMONES. And they have the nerve to not deem it a mental illness when people are out here taking drugs to grow breast and facial hair or removing and adding body parts with bioengineered pumps so they can get a none functioning impotent boner hard or a dry fake hole... Best believe If I wanted to turn myself into a horse or a car or a doll people would call me mentally ill... Some person in this comment section said that gender terms have never been concrete throughout history. And to that I say... "Did they have sperm or at least could have produced sperm? Yes? Male/Man." then "Did they have eggs or at least could they have made eggs and beared a child? Yes? Female/Woman." THEN "If neither then they are most likely intersex or just born barren and are anomalies. Other than that, the way you behave, the way you dress, the way you act is your PERSONALITY! No need for modifications to your body... No need to take hormones... no need to demand people call you a man or a woman or some other weird-ass thing. OR GET UPSET WHEN SOMEONE DOESN'T CALL YOU BY YOUR PREFER "GENDER" Otherwise trying to modify your body and deem that your "PERSONALITY" is your gender and append it to a sex, is a mental illness. FIGHT ME! TL;DR: Personallity* There, fixed that for them...

[@pluspiping]

As a nonbinary person, I can GUARANTEE you that my 'gender' has nothing to do with my biology, or my body. AND it has nothing to do with seeing other people do it, because for over a decade as a kid I thought I was the only one. It really is just who you are, set into the context of the culture you live in.

[@Daniel-cz9gt]

@@pluspiping Then you are using the word "gender" in an entirely different way than most people do.

[@pluspiping]

@@Daniel-cz9gt it's two simple concepts, Daniel, it's okay, lots of people already get it. 1) gender is a cultural idea and 2) biology is more complicated than the simplified biology textbook you read in school at 9 years old If you still can't read that, I'm sorry, I wish I could have been there in your first grade class to teach you how to read. Education problems start early. :(

[@Daniel-cz9gt]

@@pluspiping I have no idea why do you think any of what you said is a response of my comment or that it is insightful enough to justify the smugness.

[@OrdkaMarlSkirata]

So where is the difference between gender and personality?

[@the1exnay]

that is a good summary of the main problem with this video

[@themisanthropechannel8052]

+Firaro Lol. He didn't communicate well at all, but that's how university teaches you to talk.

[@ShadowRnotmyrealname]

+OrdkaMarlSkirata why does gender and personality have to have a mutually exclusive state? He says gender is not totally objective and has subjective components. And isn't subjectivity in a way what personality is?

[@ShadowRnotmyrealname]

+Rtkts imo, yes. but also that doesn't it any less real.

[@rebellucy5098]

But calling something subjective doesn't make it true. We are turning everything into a 'subjective' idea and thats a cancerous line of thought. It pollutes the waters of discussion and prevents realistic ideals from moving to the front.

[@jonathandeeter]

What is gender and how do I get rid of it

[@Blaineworld]

Philosophy Tube before 2020: trans trans trans. Still cis tho.

[@projectsanctuary7944]

egg moment o.o