Pronouns | ContraPoints

[@ContraPoints]

WELCOME TO THE FREE SPEECH ZONE

[@historyday9371]

Thanks

[@elronlavey5912]

LoL

[@Sheepyhead]

HIGHWAY TO THE FREE SPEECH ZONE

[@suides4810]

Reeeeeeeeeeeee

[@boleslawpetroski9681]

The notification was delayed for 6 minutes and I think KZbin wants to keep this knowledge from the commoner

[@jerylian7711]

As a cis woman with no trans acquaintances I find it hard to understand all this stuff sometimes, but the way you explain it answers a lot of questions I had. Please keep doing this. Thank you.

[@DarDarBinks1986]

@@checkbox197 It must have been a pain in the ass to clean up that bathtub afterwards.

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

Somehow I thought it said "as a giant woman" at first and I'm sad because Steven Universe is on hiatus.

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@SuviTuuliAllan Speaking of, are you excited about the movie?

[@SuviTuuliAllan]

@@sardonicsardonyx359 As excited as a depressed person can be, I suppose. You?

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@SuviTuuliAllan Unpopular opinion, but I think I'm going to be disappointed. SU is like Game Freak; they introduce something that's really cool like Mega Evolution but abandon it in the next generation. SU has cool characters but they take the back burner so often by the time they do develop characters they do so that instead of focusing on what's important. Do I wanna know about Peridot? Yes, but not when the world is at steak and you are taking time to relax in the sun and sing songs! I want to know more about Steven and Connie's relationship? Yes, but not when Lars could be dead in space! I feel like the gem is going to be a really good villain, then be redeemed by the end of the movie, and then never be developed or spoken about ever again.

[@brageok]

Why does Benjamin call himself "Ben", when his biological name is clearly Benjamin?

[@leafleafleaf9272]

Names are a social construct, being male or female in humans isnt

[@brageok]

​@@leafleafleaf9272 Regardless of how you feel about the difference between sex and gender, and the degree to which they are socially constructed, you have to realize that gendered pronouns are 100% socially constructed.

[@felipeurrego987]

@@brageok I'll one-up you: language as a whole is 100% socially constructed.

[@mauve2121]

@@leafleafleaf9272 except it is

[@darkstar2874]

@@leafleafleaf9272 actually the simplification/generalization that is binary sex IS a social construct, otherwise we’d have at least one umbrella role for when people don’t meet the checklist we made up for male and female (or if we were being really objective one for every kind of variance), but we don’t.

[@reignfire77]

shapiro's feelings doesn't care about your facts

[@lentilbonanza4163]

Radical

[@ryanthomas9306]

CP doesnt have facts, just feelings

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Here to comment/watch weird stuff . I actually do watch CPs stuff. Ever since he was a normal boy on the blaire interview or w.e., it's really interesting to see his alter ego. Heres my problem, he interchangeably uses transsexual and transgender, but it's clear which he is. At the end, he states his identity is based on societal support. For example, he gets said desired positive reinforcement from the environment (which is nurtured).

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Here to comment/watch weird stuff positive reinforcement is directly related to attention and feelings.... what are you talking about

[@ryanthomas9306]

@Here to comment/watch weird stuff ... just talking from a social standpoint, ignore gender/biology and all the bull shit. Instead replace those with social cliques at school aka demographically. Say cheerleader (erin) wants to be referred to as shaniqua, all of her friends cater to it and call her that "nickname". Why would I care about her nick name or the feelings of those who "feel" she should be called said nick name.

[@BLAAACKsheeepy]

ContraPoints DESTROYS conservative snowflake ben shapiro in EPIC video essay

[@joelbedulla4]

Part 69

[@gingertwerk472]

Very underrated comment

[@LowCountryMatt]

Mommy Feelings destroys 'Daddy' 'Logic'

[@azzv.kuskatan]

I don't think conservatives will agree because they use their own logic.

[@pauljohnson7548]

"You know, you don't become a woman the first time you put on a dress. You become a woman the first time an older female relative turns to you at a restaurant and says, 'You know, maybe you should order the salad, sweetie.'" I'm not a woman, but that is a brilliant observation and I believe it.

[@skyrasmus4760]

I fucking died at that.

[@user-qv2qf1jk5o]

I thought I was a cis woman, but it turns out I gotta find a judgy older female relative and get her in a restaurant asap

[@IamMissPronounced]

@@vids595 yes all women need an older female relative who body shames them. That's what we all need

[@elperry7733]

@@idkdk569 Nice false dilemma there. Or maybe you could just mind your business and not comment on what people order, as well as not make medical judgements about how much people should exercise based on as little info as what they're eating for one meal out. Do you always express your concern for the health of everyone you see eating processed sugar, imbibing large amounts of drugs, or spending the day on the couch, or does this imperative just apply to people who don't make your dick happy?

[@idkdk569]

@@elperry7733 after thinking about my comments for a while, i realized i was in the wrong, i apologize have a nice day

[@mileshill8773]

I am non-binary and use they/them pronouns and I shared this video with my family today to help them better understand me. My 70 year old aunt was really moved by it and wrote me a really thoughtful response. Thank you so much for all the work you put into your videos. They make a huge difference. Your videos make me hopeful ❤️

[@haggisa]

MC Hill Awwww. Go aunt!

[@localvenus_chic]

I’m happy for you. Your aunt is really cool.

[@mikuenjoyerXD]

Thats amazing! I would be terrified to show ContraPoints to my family because i know i would be judged and i know they wouldn't watch the whole video

[@beautyofcinema374]

Aww, that's so wholesome.

[@regalsteel7074]

You are not non binary. You are man or woman.

[@dlisetteb]

Pronouns are also respect. If someone ask you to call them as a she or as a he why the hell would you do the opposite on purpose??

[@inkheart2007]

Ikr just respect ppl it’s not hard.

[@psychinteresting727]

That’s EXACTLY how I explain it to some people!! It’s just respect! You don’t turn to someone who says their name is Randy and say “ok mike nice to meet you” like??? WHAT

[@cherrycola6736]

Because a lot of people think that it makes them look like a big smart intellectual. It's... Really fucking pathetic tbh

[@lordbuss]

For the same reason, for example, that people dislike actually showing respect in Japanese. Because it's another complicated thing you should do to be seen as respectful (though obviously, Japanese is far harder than pronouns). That's still mostly a factor of people thinking everything new is weird because they never think about familiar things, but from an "objective" outside perspective it's just the problem of human society and the fact you need to do things to be seen as respectful. You know how cool would it be if you didn't need to show respect in any (active) way, and people wouldn't be insulted, because they don't know they are supposed to be insulted? That's obviously impossible without a very long (couple centuries at least) social evolution, but essentially that is the idea people express (sometimes without knowing it) when they choose to not show respect in a new way they do not consider obvious and familiar.

[@baristaz8834]

For others it's like doing it is agreeing with the ppl from the community and their ideologies. Personally, I don't mind using he/she pronouns for anyone. But I'm not using they/them or any other kind, cuz it's weird for me to use that with a single person and I've never learnt of any other official pronouns so.

[@Cat-tastrophee]

I work with kids and a lot of what I do is explaining neurodivergence to neurotypical classmates. Kids are very accepting if you explain things in terms they can understand. It's adults who are the problem.

[@vilagistene2939]

Yes, children are easily brainwashed. Are you really that surprised?

[@daneboe]

I got your back. I'll fight like hell to make sure you get to be miserable and dysfunctional like everyone else! 😂❤️

[@kajipup7550]

Dane Boe same here partner

[@hekatebleble4800]

And you have an avatar to prove it! ;D

[@xereeto]

The Annoying Orange guy watches Contrapoints? Top 10 unexpected anime crossovers

[@merrittanimation7721]

Yes! We must fight for the day where all people's misery is created equal!

[@Tallon28819]

Knife

[@watermellie]

John Maclean is ethereal and deserves a special deity pronoun.

[@XenaBe25]

I don't follow makeup channels, so this was the first I'd heard of MacLean. When Natalie said he prefers to be called "he" I assumed he was a transman bc he looks so good. Damn. I'm still confused. And amazed. Dude is a drag queen? He looks better than I *ever* looked, even in my early 20s when I was smokin hot.

[@nelsonth]

@@XenaBe25 he doesn't call it drag, which is anyway usually something that is akin to performance. He seems to present himself like that all the time. He says he just expresses himself in a way that is stereotypically understood as feminine by society. I am not a makeup person myself and many of his subscribers watch him for his quaint turn of phrase, seemingly extensive vocabulary, soothing tone and manner and dry sense of humor. Of course his makeup is renowned for its ... SEAMLESSNESS.

[@XenaBe25]

@@nelsonth I watched a little of his stuff. He calls himself a god :D

[@Discordia5]

@@XenaBe25 John enjoys feminine fashion, but feels comfortable as a male. He is like a posh Jeffree Star.

[@Simsrockslol]

john maclean- sama

[@MaevieTheSongbird]

“ I am a woman in identity, and in expression I a m a m e s s “ Holy cow that is a mood

[@IamMissPronounced]

"Hi I'm Ben Shapiro" "Oh hi Benny" "Um actually its just Ben" "Well you look like a Benny to me so I'm calling you that lol" "Okay but that name feels infantilizing and personally degrading and I don't feel comfortable being addressed by that name" "Facts don't care about your feelings Benny, this is my freedom of speech"

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

Does he actually not like being called Benny?

[@GamePath]

This entire conversation is made up... Oh so transgenders are just playing make believe. I was confused.

[@sardonicsardonyx359]

@@GamePath That's not what I was saying.

[@GamePath]

@@sardonicsardonyx359 Oh so benny is a nickname... nicknames are made up. So trangenders are completely made up also. Thanks! Got it.

[@tomcotter4299]

Calling someone named Ben “Benny” is not the same as forcing people to deny biological realities. A more appropriate analogy would be if someone said their preferred pronoun was “Climate Change is a myth” and reprimanded you and called you phobic every time you protested using their preferred pronoun. Your analogy sucks and only works on this uncritical audience.

[@kissfan7]

11:00 "You'll say in shorthand that they're parents" Interesting. A shorthand you say? Like a shortened version of a noun? LIKE A PRONOUN?!

[@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice]

Right? This section made me laugh. It's like, parents are parents, whether biological or adoptive. Women are women, whether cis or trans. It's so easy.

[@Guitar4Eva100]

I'M A LINGUISTICS STUDENT AND THANK U FOR TYPING THIS AAAAAAAA THESE PEOPLE HAVE NEVER STUDIED GRAMMAR EVEN THOUGH THEY INVOKE IT CONSTANTLY

[@jbagger331]

Scot, Scotsmen, are all Scots men.

[@FelixMeister]

@@Guitar4Eva100 plus they tend to think far to proscriptively. As though the 'rules' are immutable and set in stone and that language isn't constantly changing.

[@Guitar4Eva100]

@@FelixMeister yeah exactly. It's infinitely more valuable to use a descriptive approach

[@Goodlordwhatshappeninginthere]

"Telling a child the option exists should they choose it to change gender is more harmful to their psyche than forcing them to live as a gender they don't want to, apparently." - Ben Shapiro, definite smart person.

[@Ixiah27]

Tell that to the 19 year old about to hang themself because the Body they got after their Child Hormone Therapy makes them sick now.

[@pridemoth_]

@@Ixiah27 Except that really doesn't happen

[@kaitlynbrady3017]

Fact: Trans people exist in the world, Ben. I have seen several videos of you speaking to them. Facts don't care about your daughter's feelings.

[@RyanStorey1231]

I really wish I knew how to argue against the "HOW DO I EXPLAIN THIS TO MY CHILD?!" crowd.

[@Jamie-kg8ig]

@@RyanStorey1231 I'd tell them that it's just something you tell your kid when they get old enough to understand. Of course you don't try to explain it to a 4 year old. It'd be like trying to explain sex to one. They can't get it yet so you tell them when they're more mature and can handle it.

[@TheSongwritingCat]

@@RyanStorey1231 Maybe if you aren't equipped to explain things to your child, you shouldn't be a parent. Or you should at least teach them to read a little more quickly so they can learn about things for themselves.

[@pandaking9000]

Jamie Ryan Storey “it’s not hard, children are very open to these things. Normalizing these ideas at a young age leads to a more unified society. It’s basically /hey these people exist and they’re the same as anyone else/ end of story. Children have enough of a relative sense of self to recognize themselves in such a description. If they do see themselves in it don’t run away from that. You should help them explore it, with knowledgeable help, so they end up with a greater sense of self trans or not.” That’s how I’d do it at least

[@KookiesNolly]

Jamthis i know a transgender girl who has a little brother, he’s 6 years old. To him she’s his sister, even though she’s not done transitioning. It’s just part of his « normal ». If you show positive and simple representations of the LGBTQ community to kids when they are young, it will just be part of the idea of normalcy and when they are older they won’t treat the community as something weird. They will be apathetic to it, it will feel natural to them that they exist. Waiting years to introduce kids to that concept as if it was particular damaging or dangerous only runs the risk of them being reactionary to the idea because it will feel « abnormal ». Homophobes don’t usually spend their lives surrounded by free happy gay people, they didn’t get a positive or neutral image of gay people when they were kids. They either inherited their community’s bigotry or constructed one when they got old (it’s usually a little bit of both). Don’t be afraid to tell your kids about the LGBTQ community and if they ask you « why are they like that? » just tell them « because that’s just how the world is, people are just different and the world is beautiful that way. ». (That’s what my mom told me when I asked her why white people had a fair skin when I saw one in real life for the first time).

[@calvindogwhistle-coqui3673]

Hey Ms. Points, I've watched a lot of your videos before but I think you've hit a milestone. I just had to watch this video for a college women's studies class. Congrats on making it into a syllabus.

[@useroffline9999]

woah, she’s come a long way, huh?

[@hypatiakovalevskayasklodow9195]

That's amazing!

[@GuiSmith]

She quit academia and then made it back in without even trying, what a glow-up of sorts

[@sarabenzari7717]

same, im here watching it for a university take home exam on sociolinguistics

[@soupi2105]

Refusing to use someones preferred pronouns because it's a "lie" is like refusing to use the shortened form of someones name because it's not the name on their birth certificate. No matter how ridiculous the pronouns are, refusing to be polite to make a political statement is just petty and gross.

[@soupi2105]

My parents surrounded me with deeply diverse people from a young age. So, sometimes it's very very difficult to understand why this stuff is so complicated for people.

[@malis9045]

Exactly. You know the Citroen-Paradox? So according to it, a company, a state, or any large social construct is an invention. It does not exist. It's purely in our minds, because we have been taught it exists since we were young. Moral of the story is, we live in a world dominated by lies

[@B1SpkTKD]

1917th BenisBrigade Not all social constructs are "lies", in the sense that they don't exist. Money is a social construct, because we as a society created it, and without us it wouldn't exist. But despite that, money exists in your wallet and we can physically touch it, can we?

[@SilverishKitten]

Point is that using the shortened form is optional... Not mandatory and it wont hurt the person if either is used. Your analogy doesnt work.

[@SilverishKitten]

1917th BenisBrigade Math is a social construct. But it's not a lie.

[@musicislove175]

Why does Ben go by he/him when he is clearly biologically an actual toddler.

[@sionnachmacbradaigh1010]

He's actually a squid 🐙

[@Luzonyoutube]

@@sionnachmacbradaigh1010 don’t insult squids like that

[@amb600cd0]

they go by ba/by

[@cosmo_junk]

@@amb600cd0 you mean to say "ba goes by ba/by" :))

[@amb600cd0]

@@cosmo_junk oops, really sorry Ben, i didnt mean to do that to ba

[@The_Rat_Bastard_69]

24:12 "I'm terrified of looking like a 3rd-rate drag queen, and I cope with that fear by looking like a 2nd-rate drag queen." 10/10 I actually laughed. Love and support.

[@SixtySecondYoga]

“I am a woman in identity, and in expression I am a mess!”

[@shmuels1383]

@@MrCholoPants3415 *she

[@MrCholoPants3415]

@@shmuels1383 One X and one Y chromosome. Contra is a man. He will always be a man, regardless of how attractive HE looks in drag. I love HIS videos. If I knew Contra in person then, yes, I would call HIM a SHE, because it would be polite. I do not know Contra in person, therefore I am calling HIM the rightful sex that they were born with. If I identified as William Rothschild would you call me William Rothschild and give me all of your money? If I identify as Elon Musk does that make my IQ 160??? Shut your mouth. People like you have no voice in real life because you're always hiding behind a bush.

[@mattjohnson380]

@@MrCholoPants3415 Way to chose the shit goblin option.

[@fireworks5462]

When I, as a German-speaker, refer to a table as "er" (German for "he") and to a lamp as "sie" (German for "she") do I pretend that the table has XY-chromosomes and the lamp has XX-chromosomes? No, I just follow the rules of the German language that some nouns are gramatically masculine (like "der Tisch") and some nouns are gramatically feminine (like "die Lampe"). Pronouns have never been used just to describe biological sex. But they have been used to describe grammatical gender and even things that have no chromosomes at all can have that.

[@lengarion]

Historically, women are not even "female" in this sense in the German language. Both "Mädchen" (girl) and "Weib" (obsolete for woman) are gender neutral. "Das Mädchen, es" (the girl, it) and "das Weib, es" (the woman, it) vs. "die Frau, sie" (the woman, she). And we just accept that. I have strong memories of German language class, where our teacher explained to us that no, we can't refer to a nameless character as "sie(she)" when she was only introduced as a girl. Because girls are neutral, and rules are rules, goddammit. I vaguely remember that someone tried to make the argument from biology, but that did not stand. German grammar > biology, it seems. But we made those rules ourselves, they are not God given.

[@everebus6982]

Is it just me or does that sound like archaïc german didn't consider women human beings unless they were married?

[@lengarion]

@@everebus6982 I thought so first, too. Our "Weib" seems to be related to the English "wife". However, that's not the case, as "Weib" is still gender neutral. Our modern "Frau" seems to take the place of "Lady" or "Dame", and those were people, maybe. Mann/Weib is the pair equivalent to man/woman, Herr/Frau would be Lord/Lady.

[@fireworks5462]

@@everebus6982 Historically, "Frau" (grammatically feminine) was used for noble women and "Weib" (grammatically neutral) was used for common women. "Mädchen" (girl) is a diminutive form and they are all neutral in German.

[@lengarion]

@@fireworks5462 I never even thought about that, but you're right. "Mädchen" is a diminutive of "Magd" (Magd > Mägdchen > Mädchen, as that "g" is annoying there), which would be a "maiden". And a "Magd/maiden" IS female, even in grammar.

[@sima4162]

The restaurant example is why I tend to laugh at anyone who deliberately refers to me as "she". Yes, you would be right in saying that I am biologically female, and if I were going to a new doctor, I wouldn't hesitate in telling them that I was born female because it is important to my general wellbeing that the doctor knows this. But if you needed to describe me to someone, it would be more trouble than it's worth to call me a woman since I look like one of the dwarfs from the Hobbit.

[@celesteh1]

I basically told my dad that if he kept wrong pronouning me, it was going to confuse everyone and they would think he was senile.

[@MegatronYES]

You’ve convinced me. My party needs a tank and you’re invited

[@melmelhodgepodge3800]

I am also a very unattractive female.

[@Aconitum_napellus]

@@melmelhodgepodge3800 They never said they were unattractive.

[@Arkayjiya]

@@melmelhodgepodge3800 Have you seen some of the dwarves in The Hobbit? They're bearded sculptural motherfuckers.

[@industrialalliance9905]

Contrapoints DESTROYS right wing snowflakes in a 30 minute video.

[@somethingdiscreet]

It's actually a 31 minute and 56 second video. Facts don't care about your feelings. /s

[@agnescoleman9556]

Josiah T. Wow rekt 🙄

[@vicapple6663]

Imagine referring to Ben Shapiro as "jew boy," and saying, "what? You're jewish. And you're a boy. So what I said is completely accurate. And facts don't care about your feelings."

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

Yeah this autistic "but I'm just being truthful here! Facts don't care about the feelings" conservatives like to parrot around is such a simplistic way of viewing human communication and language.

[@sananton2821]

"Jew boy" is never respectful. "Sir" and "he" almost always are.

[@ihsahnakerfeldt9280]

@@sananton2821 That's the point

[@sananton2821]

@@ihsahnakerfeldt9280 No. Being so mentally ill that you choose to be upset at traditional terms of respect is far different from accepting an intended insult that is only ever insulting. You can't even read.

[@vicapple6663]

@@sananton2821 "sir" and "he" are not respectful if you're addressing a woman

[@jason_man]

"I love it when people assume my gender, provided that they ASSUME IT CORRECTLY!!" Fantastic made me laugh so hard

[@shepsfield]

ben Shapiro's gonna be so mad when he finds out about the French language

[@cjmatzen3941]

I always knew cars were biologically male, tbh.

[@jonathanbowers8964]

CJ Matzen So Pixar lied to me when they had male and female cars in Cars? Next you are going to be telling me that toys don’t come alive when I leave the room.

[@NIHIL_EGO]

@@cjmatzen3941 Cars are female in French. "Une voiture", or "une automobile". Bikes are also female ("Une moto"), though planes and trucks are males ("un avion", "un camion"). And bicycles are genderfluid ("un vélo" or "une bicyclette").

[@mielpop2571]

He's gon freak out when he learns Spanish cause things have different gender depending in where you are

[@onetrickponysona2613]

don't tell him about russian language

[@octavemagescas3192]

~~A S A T R A N ZZ W O M A N~~ I've been laughing uncontrollably for 15mn straight, thank you for the endorphin rush, Lady Contra

[@travelsandbooks]

I spat all over my phone screen when she did this

[@aliebrubaker7473]

I legit use that voice any time I catch myself saying "As a trans woman" now... I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry. Haha.

[@delirium319]

i find myself also doing the same thing she does whenever i say the word 'problematic' and i giggle

[@octavemagescas3192]

Jo Jo gosh can’t wait, plz make it happen #daddydom

[@duckietheduck]

@Jo Jo what in the fuck lol

[@apocalyptosoldier5527]

Roses are red Violets are blue Singular they Predates singular you Late 13th century vs 16th century to be exact.

[@Cieln0va]

THANK YOU

[@novasnotvibing]

This was a bad idea to watch on shrooms

[@novasnotvibing]

I'm tripping balls but I still love you mama contra.

[@JesseColton]

@@novasnotvibing Mantra

[@novasnotvibing]

@@JesseColton dont break my head

[@danny.nedelk0]

Or on alcohol... The mouthfeel is too much.

[@novasnotvibing]

@@danny.nedelk0 gay

[@hugomarquez3189]

The fact that our culture considers Ben Shapiro a public intellectual says more about our culture than about Ben Shapiro. Same culture that elected Donald Trump as president. My platform for 2020 is “Bring back Philosophy to High Schools.”

[@CrusaderLogan]

Matt Smith generalizing all Republicans makes things worse.

[@ryanthomas9306]

He is a genius and I don't see many things wrong with his opinions besides gender and sex arent different, otherwise seems smart to me

[@mattsmith457]

Havel the Rock Yeah, I agree. Generally people will get more angry today if you attack them for an ideological difference than an attack on their race or gender.

[@artistfloor9]

Matt Smith - Ben Shapiro is intelligent in some ways and a complete fucking idiot in many others, which is more than I can say of his followers. The funny thing about intelligence is that it doesn’t actually determine whether or not someone is a good person. Ben Shapiro has made a career out of being a nasty, smarmy little shit who peddles his completely subjective opinions about everything as fact. He’s a stupid person’s idea of an intellectual.

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@artistfloor9 what did he say that's stupid ? Can you list a specific? 10 bucks you bring up his gender isnt malleable comment since you're a drone

[@kristalcampbell3650]

"Now, we need to address the genderqueer elephant in the room" she says as I look up guiltily from the tube of Pringles I am downing.

[@pottedaloe9160]

Kristal Campbell underrated 😂😂😂

[@Nerdcoresteve1]

Pringles are rad

[@mellow_mallow]

same tho

[@rotciv1486]

what is striking about Ben Shapiro is that he is a pretty religious man also. Following his "facts don't care about your feelings" deal to the logical conclusion, well, it's not really coherent right?

[@mathieuleader8601]

he's Jewish

[@rotciv1486]

@@mathieuleader8601 not only jewish, traditionalist observant jewish. he is pretty out there is my point.

[@mathieuleader8601]

a zionist perhaps if that's not too strong @@rotciv1486

[@NotReallyDB]

I‘m late to the party but not humiliating others and preserving the dignity of all people is a major thing in Judaism: rabbisacks.org/covenant-conversation-5770-vayeshev-on-not-humiliating/. Misgendering is exactly that. He should probably reach out to his rabbi.

[@omaralyafai2368]

Ben should take his own medicine. Facts don't care about his feelings and his bible contradicts itself hundreds of times and is historically inaccurate and uses recycled stories from other religions Judaism is just a cult by a group of semetic people who try to make their superiority nd justification of barbarity justified via a divine deity. Someone should debate him on religion with the same "facts don't care about your feelings" mantra and tell him 4th at people can call him even but not a new because most of the stories and fables in his book are recycled from other civilizations

[@seljukturk8627]

"your eminence", the only true pronoun

[@warptens5652]

yeah except "His Eminence" and "Her Eminence"

[@gumbly4174]

I’m kinda old school Italian, I also know that I’m not the sharpest tool in the shed but my mom taught me to give people a chance and to understand them and be kind. I recently met a coworker who’s a non binary, and they told me about it explained it to me(took a good 10 minutes) and I was honest yk. I told them that I would probably mess up the pronouns and stuff for like a week but I’d try my best. After a week calling them “they” was like second nature and I didn’t even think about it. Just cause I bothered to care and ask. Even a thick headed guy like me can figure it out, I would hope that a fancy lawyer like Ben could too.

[@bagelforks]

Benson

[@gumbly4174]

@@bagelforks that’s me

[@vilagistene2939]

And why? I would never do it because I think it's bullshit. Of course you can, but it's completely unnecessary.

[@gumbly4174]

⁠​⁠@@vilagistene2939Well, it comes down to respect. I was taught to be compassionate and respectful, you don’t know people’s story or what they got on their mind. Treat people the way you want to be treated. Ultimately you can have whatever opinion you want, it’s not your place for you to decide for them. Going out of your way to call them the wrong thing is just a plain rude thing to do. You can choose to do that, but remember that you reap what you sow. So if you act like that, don’t be shocked if people don’t think too highly of you.

[@vilagistene2939]

​@@gumbly4174Compassion and respect are one thing, being a brain dead droid is another. Surely you think it's a good thing to give up your own autonomy at the altar of other people's feelings? They feel a certain way, but it's not just about taking the other person's feelings into account and maybe not bringing up a topic or doing something, but they expect you to subordinate your own reality to theirs. As long as you feel transgender women are women, there is no problem, but if you don't feel that way and are still willing to treat them that way/talk about them that way, then you subordinate your own reality to their reality. The same is true for non-binaries. It goes quite strongly against individualism if your first reality is not your own, but someone else's. This could lead to a Black Mirror episode sooner or later. You can look at people, even with respect, and be considerate of their feelings, so that you don't give up your own autonomy and set boundaries! You can listen to other people's feelings up to a certain point, but only if it does not take away from your autonomy. Since it came across from your comment that you are only doing this because of their feelings, and not because you think so, you are giving away a small part of your own autonomy. In addition, respect is optional. If someone considers himself to be respectful and empathetic, he practices it even in situations where the other party is the opposite! If the other party does not behave in a way that suits him, he also loses respect and empathy. Selective empathy is not true empathy. Even the least empathic people can have some empathy, but someone can only call themselves empathic if their empathy is not selective. Regardless, it is a mistake to mix empathy with political issues.

[@SSSyndrome214]

That was so fucking fabulous. I was reluctant to use "them" or "they" in the singular sense, so I came here looking for a compelling argument to do so, and got schooled in like 2 sentences. Thank you, I owe you, and will do my best to pay it forward.

[@lucyla9947]

One thing when It comes to pronouns is: The only time it's okay to get someone's pronouns wrong is when you do it on mistake, for example if you meet a new person who looks like a man and acts like a man, but uses she/her pronouns, it's okay if you accidentally misgender her if she doesn't tell you right away, but as soon as she informs you "hey I go by she/her pronouns" you better put all of your effort into calling her those pronouns.

[@lucyla9947]

@- it is okay if it's an honest mistake but don't purposefully go around misgendering people that's wrong.

[@Meepersa]

Not quite. The other reason to do so is, even if you know the person's correct pronouns, they ask you to not use them so as to not out them. Similarly, people fuck up sometimes, and that's okay and expected, so long as they're making an effort.

[@vilagistene2939]

Dirty Nazi!! DON'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO!!!!!!!!!

[@kattykit139]

You’re the best for just carrying around tampons in case someone needs them you’re really out here for ciswomen and transmen

[@Rissa_1322]

Please write "trans men" and "cis women" as two words. It's not "tallperson" or "blueskirt" or "snowyweather". Trans is an adjective [which is why "a transgender" might sound viscerally wrong to you, because adjectives by themselves can't be preceded by articles] and you don't "glue" adjectives to the noun. They way it comes across by and large is as if they're fundamentally different from the core idea, rather than just being a perfectly valid TYPE of man/woman/person/skirt/weather. Thank you.

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@Rissa_1322 this is you tube snowflake

[@aryore2411]

@@ryanthomas9306 no u

[@owayasomething9295]

@@Rissa_1322 I say this as someone whose native language contains almost 3000 compound words...... It may just have been a spelling mistake....

[@downloadsdownloads5525]

@@ryanthomas9306 Calm down there my guy. It's a social platform where people are allowed to express ideas. It's a press of a space bar that OP may not have known makes quite a lot of philosophical and linguistic difference to how trans people are discussed - not a personal attack on them or you

[@comradegarrett1202]

"I was a yum-yum though" u still are though, just a girl yum-yum

[@alpaca8437]

an entirely valid type of yum-yum

[@taniaisabel9207]

I really want to witness Ben Shapiro meeting John Maclean, calling him *sir*, trying to get a rise out of him, saying he refuses to call him *a she*, having John tell him he identifies as a man and uses male pronouns, Ben having a meltdown when he realizes his stance won't be able to make someone whom he doesn't agree with uncomfortable

[@rosalielamont7890]

👏👏👏👏👏👏👏 John would smoke this child with class

[@taniaisabel9207]

@Hale Hardy literally what?

[@miriamwhite9688]

@Hale Hardy Why thank you, I AM a pervert! Keeps things fun ;) you're so mad it's adorable. And in modern English 'they' is not ALWAYS plural, and I promise, you don't even use it exclusively as plural. E.g. 'do you think they got the birthday card I posted yesterday' is common usage. You're wrong, and you come across like an idiot for dogmatically holding onto something that is plainly incorrect. But you do you, boo ;) mwah!

[@miriamwhite9688]

@Hale Hardy lmgtfy.com/?iie=1&q=when+is+%22they%22+singular

[@miriamwhite9688]

Thanks for playing babe x

[@szendeti]

in Hungarian we don't have gendered pronuns, so it was hard to get used to "she" and "he" now that I got so used to them, that I find using "they" harder, but I'm practising why can't languges only have gender neutral pronouns?

[@beremeansdancing7]

You'd die learning Spanish (my native language) or German (language I'm also fluent in).

[@shreyaadahall]

My native language(Nepali) doesn't just have gendered pronouns, it also has second person and third person pronouns based on degree of respect which is differs with age, class, position, relationship, etc.

[@thebridge1609]

tiptop F for you

[@lavenderhuman]

@@shreyaadahall that’s sounds awesome. Kinda sounds like Japanese where they have different words for “you” depending on the level of respect or lack there of

[@moonghosh2132]

Bengali doesn't have gendered pronouns. Only gender indicators are relations ( mother, father etc) and some professional ( optional now). It is possible for me to have a whole conversation about a person and not knowing their gender. What difference does it make

[@CeeBee781]

Revisiting this awesome video, and I wanted to point something out: It is VERY easy to avoid binary pronouns altogether if you aren’t sure. In my everyday life and at work, I have run into people whose presentation is ambiguous, or whose gender identity isn’t obvious to me, and in those situations I can easily avoid pronouns and still maintain a natural flow (“Hi there!” Or “How are you today? What can I do for you?”)No miss ma’am or sir required. If I find it necessary to use a pronoun, I go for them or they and I don’t think I’ve offended a single person yet. Even if it’s not their preferred pronoun, most gender ambiguous or fluid people are perfectly aware of how they present and that most strangers may not be able to deduce their preferred pronoun, and they appreciate the gender neutral fallback. My point is, this is a easy and courteous thing to do, and anyone who calls a person in a dress and makeup “sir” is either a jerk or truly ignorant. There’s no excuse these days. Using they/them is the safest and most respectful bet in everyday interactions with strangers.

[@vilagistene2939]

Is there no excuse these days? Exactly! There is no excuse for trying to tell anyone what pronouns to use! What pronouns do you have? But I'm going to call you with the opposite pronoun, whether you're cis or not... Filthy Nazi!

[@cogglan5269]

As a cis male that was really interesting and helpful, there was a lot about this that I never quite undestood, I always called trans people by the right pronoum to be polite, but now it makes a lot of sense.

[@QueenCloveroftheice]

You have tampons just in case someone asks? You are the true heroine we all need.

[@OatmealTheCrazy]

I also do this for the 0 people who ask me every year

[@elizabethm7163]

"Facts don't care about your feelings" but for some reason they care about his? It just doesn't make sense.

[@titanuranus3095]

I keep forgetting that Blair White isn't one of the characters.

[@oliviasimkinsbullock8421]

In the same way that the Golden One just feels like one of her characters. The over-the-top absurdity of those two feels perfectly at home in the Contrapoints universe.

[@demilembias2527]

Blair is very obviously the basis for Tiffany Tumbles though. And the Golden One sort of inspired Fritz/Freya, but he's still honestly way more absurd.

[@kbaby115]

I was assigned this video for my gender studies class:)

[@Mysocksaresour]

thats cool af

[@ledyagi7278]

You, know every contrapoints video I watch just validates my opinion that she is actually a wizard and has lived for several hundred years.

[@artemiswolf4508]

ProboscisMan Nah. If that was true the world would be a better place.

[@ledyagi7278]

Artemis Wolf don’t shit on my dreams

[@GINEP1G]

What I LOVE about your videos is that you can take opinions on different sides and accurately portray their points without being rude or dehumanizing. This kind of discussion is healthy. And it can change minds.

[@MegaShiney99]

HOW CAN ONE WOMAN BE SO GRAND SO PERFECT

[@mj81000]

MegaShiney99 O

[@odalicio]

As a doctor, it's a disservice to refer to a trans women as "man" - due to the social, psychologic and biological factors at work in their life. "Trans woman" is the objectively best way to practically convene the patients gender in this case. Language follow practicality, not the other way around

[@azzv.kuskatan]

How does the biological part influences the usage of the non-birth gender?

[@raeorion]

My boyfriend is made really uncomfortable by being identified as a cis male. I think he doesn't really identify as a gender and just happens to roll with more "masculine" rolls and aesthetics. He was long teased for being gay in school despite that he is attracted to women and many of his closest friends were bi or gender non-conforming. I guess I share this because when it comes to labeling others it is always better to clarify how they identify. My boyfriend might experience all the privileges of a cis man, but his identity has still caused him a lot of dysmorphia and there are sure to be many like him. I myself have always been called a "tomboy" and while I use the same pronouns I was assigned at birth, now identity as nonbinary because when it comes to ideas of gender I don't see myself through the lense of how people perceive women.

[@sandroselladore3506]

" I don't see myself through the lense of how people perceive women" is a concise way of stating how i feel about my gender, thank you id call myself gender nonconforming, and i guess i could call myself a girl. ive had multiple gender crises because of this earlier lol

[@raeorion]

@@sandroselladore3506 glad you feel that too! Not so alone 🥰 It's been kind of a struggle to fit into the world authentically, but it's been easier as more language and conversation developed around gender and the constructs we've been adapted to vs what's possible ❤️

[@sandroselladore3506]

@@raeorion i like how you say what's possible because my end goal is to present like an ominous conglomerate of geometric shapes, chanting about your estranged father's sins outside his window at 4am--

[@raeorion]

@@sandroselladore3506 🤣🤣🤣 excellent

[@sananton2821]

Your bf is gay.

[@20gdetitane]

I've been binge watching your content and you helped me (a - would I say boring ? - cis hetero male) understand transgender persons and what they are expressing (And I used to be mostly unconvinced). I think you're brave and smart and pretty good at explaining it. And funny, too. There's always a point where I just have to stop the video to drop a like under it because you just made my day with one snarky phrase and girl you just deserved it !

[@possumhead2812]

Thank you for being open minded :)

[@PBthesquirrel]

"How am I going to explain to my child blah blah blah" doesn't make sense. I'm not a trans person, but I'm pretty sure most trans people would probably have loved to be explained what trans means as a kid. Please correct me if I'm wrong. I know as a cis person who knew what trans was as a kid, I wasn't confused or "swayed to be trans."

[@lifeitself9440]

Agreed I have no problem explaining to my child. There is normal people and there is a crazy immoral people whose whole life is about sex. Nothing else. Instead to help them industries are making money out of them sterilizing them, because who the fuck needs lunatics to reproduce. None of them is happy or fulfilled, hundred percent of them are on some drugs or medication. Not only they do not know what is women fill like they do not know how the human being fill like, they are sad creatures. Never be one of them.

[@rustingoceans]

“And I identify as trash” me everyday

[@spaceowl5957]

Rusting_Oceans so relatable

[@angiepangie989]

Children are the most accepting people, hate is learned we're not born hateful.

[@felixargyle8444]

ContraPoints is great because her videos make me feel as if I've absorbed hours of information in 30 minutes.

[@eowynsalvador6664]

4:28 I notice you've refrained from calling him "daddy" as that word is strictly reserved for Jordan Peterson

[@cory9268]

Can't call a little boy "daddy" can you?

[@eowynsalvador6664]

@@cory9268 REKT BY FACTS AND LOGIC

[@OmotolaALawal]

Daddy as Jordan Peterson is not because he is attractive but because he acts as a father figure to his followers. "go clean your room"

[@cory9268]

@@OmotolaALawal That's literally the joke.....

[@theoneandonlymichaelmccormick]

Éowyn Salvador Please, how could Shapiro be a Daddy? He looks like he’s thirteen years old.

[@kushegga95]

Omg those 'as a trans woman' cuts

[@ZedAmadeus]

It's amazing how much work goes into giving each of these videos their own vibe and sets and costuming and music-- some of the best essays on this platform.

[@chrystalnyan-5285]

the funniest thing about all this is he is even wrong considering biology, using only facts, there are biologically for example intersex people, people u cannot just put into "oh their chromosome is xy so their gender is xy"

[@silverbirdie]

Sometimes I get distracted by all the beautiful hair and makeup and forget to listen to what you're saying, meaning I often have to re-watch whole minutes to pick up the thread of discussion again. That's my very long way of saying MY GOD that super colorful curly candy headpiece belongs in a museum of fashion extravagance.

[@djla2276]

You are a gentlewoman and a scholar. Your brand of self-depreciating humor is clever and funny, but in reality, I hope you feel good about yourself. You sure as hell ought to.

[@plvsvltra9892]

Gentleladies my name is HEY-PAUL-MAN

[@sasukekuniski1959]

trash humor

[@checkeredcheese]

Sasuke kuniski no... u.

[@skeetsmcgrew3282]

She doesn't, but few of us do. She's right, most of us are miserable, she just wants to be as un-miserable as possible by identifying as a woman and being treated as such

[@MiraHylian]

"After all these years, the result is still that I feel like shit. And I identify as trash." is the most relatable thing I've heard today.

[@annathiika5755]

MS. POINTS IS MY FAVORITE TEACHER

[@Tjstube32]

Perfectly articulated and delivered unfortunately Benny will never accept he is completely wrong...

[@sussybaka5322]

Ah Benny boy, facts sure didn't care about your feelings during your interview with Andrew Neil on BBC.

[@rowanhollingsworth5231]

"Why don't you just admit you're on the left!?"

[@Skepticalresident]

Ikr

[@antoinethename9064]

"Andrew Neil DEMOLISHED by Ben Shapiro with OPINIONS & FEELINGS"

[@zachmiller9175]

I'm not trans, I'm a 6ft hetero man built like a linebacker but my 2ft long naturally curly hair sometimes causes confusion from people who aren't really paying attention. I don't have any problem with that and honestly laugh it off. But if someone who could clearly tell I'm a man continued to refer to me as a woman things would become quite unpleasant. Not saying at all that I can really understand how trans people feel but I can relate in some small way to the pronoun frustration

[@XenaBe25]

You sound hot ;)

[@BullofCrete]

@Xena Be Smooth as sandpaper.

[@XenaBe25]

@@BullofCrete lol you haven't seen muh sandpaper, guy. You sound jelly xP kzbin.info/www/bejne/gnfSg3tji9l5hZY

[@yahellaghettortatataa9535]

What’s ur snap tbh

[@Queer_Nerd_For_Human_Justice]

Thank you Zach, this is really apt, actually. Trans people usually feel a great deal of difference between intentional vs unintentional misgendering. Actually, I sometimes argue that any cis person can have something akin to "the transgender experience"... socially, by people constantly misgendering them and otherwise depriving them of their gender; physically, by being given the wrong hormones, and surgeries counter to their gender. Essentially, I believe you can "make" and "unmake" trans experience. Drawing these similarities can help cis people understand our position as well. Thank you for sharing your experience. Many cis people get misgendered every day-- something we tend to forget, but can help contextualize things.

[@bjarnhedur]

natalie shows that you dont need to be a savvy suit-wearing pundit to own someone. i love it

[@AmandaStein-l5w]

When I saw "fascistas não passarão" I removed my like from the video just so I could SMASH THAT LIKE AGAIN SO HARD MY MOUSE BROKE. Eu te amo, obrigada

[@juliec5151]

FUCK YES. ele não.

[@ManiacalViolet]

Yo, Brasil....so sorry about Bolsonaro www.Braziliancenter.org

[@joaoclaudio9631]

Pois é... Eu quase senti um calafrio... Tô tentando falar isso pra ela no twitter hahah

[@circularly]

wait, i missed it. timestamp?

[@joaoclaudio9631]

@@circularly It is literally the last thing on this video

[@sophiehollis4415]

“FaCtS dOn’T CaRe AbOuT YoUr FeElInGs” Contra: “Sometimes, things that make you feel bad are true” PREACH.

[@ElTrolldego]

I wonder if Shapiro thinks the Finnish language is a lie.

[@Necrospunk]

TORILLA TAVATAAN!

[@TheAllAroundMan]

Tavatkaa keskenänne

[@edwardteach7425]

Gottmoerder toRILLE POJAT

[@malis9045]

Finland isn't real at all, duhhh. r/Finlandconspiracy

[@obamabiden]

he's right though Finland is not real

[@Charlie-hl7jr]

2:18 “So who is Ben Shapiro?” 2:20 *stares blinking at the screen* That part never fails to make burst out laughing 😂

[@jordansullivan5764]

I especially love that Ben Shapiro slips up and uses Laverne Cox's preferred pronoun in an attempt to quickly explain and bring someone up to speed with the person he's talking about....you know, like what pronouns are literally *for* in language.

[@nikibronson133]

Right

[@vinceknox4425]

I died when he “corrected” his use of she. Like, he has to make sure we all know he’s deliberately working to be asshole

[@amberblackwell7687]

I think he's just mad because we all know how sexy and beautiful Laverne is. That and Laverne is a transwoman with a decent amount of cultural clout. We just can't have that now can we?

[@amberblackwell7687]

Laverne is a transwoman with a decent amount of cultural clout and widespread recognition. We just can't have that now can we?/s

[@ryanthomas9306]

That shit happens. I have a few trans gamer friends, and we all use the preferred she pronouns. But I noticed even the women in our community still call the individuals he when they arent in the room

[@helenamirian908]

Ah, I see. Ben was "rewarding" Blaire for being what he considers attractive and feminine by not calling her "sir". 🙄

[@genera1013]

"How do I explain to my ChIlDrEn?!" As someone who's parent came out to them at age 7, you explain it calmly and as simply as possible. What they said went roughly, Parent- "I feel like a woman on the inside" Little me- "So a boy on the outside, but really a girl?" Parent- "yes" Little me- "can't you fix it?" Parent- "It takes a lot of money" Little me- "Guess I'll get a job so your outside matches your inside" That's what I remember anyway. I didn't know the word transgender then, but I understood the concept.

[@tula1433]

Ummm adorable. Marry me.

[@commenter-mz5ov]

you're right. when people use this argument, they're underestimating children's intelligence. most likely, they know that they can explain it to kids, but they just don't want to, so they pretend it's impossible.

[@sonorasgirl]

That and kids are learning about the world, and because everything is so new and not cemented into dumb rock yet, they are often more able to be flexible in their category ideas than adults

[@animposter4971]

That's really wholesome

[@LeGoodMusica23]

I was like 10 when I first saw an ftm person on the news and my only thoughts were "ewww he's a boy now"

[@abimon76]

he got the pronouns right BY ACCIDENT LMFAOOOO

[@hiruyabebaw807]

epic embed fail

[@ieatcheese4843]

task failed succesfully

[@neptune2266]

he’s such a dumbass why waste so much energy on misgendering people when you can just be respectful.

[@kertchu]

Really shows how much effort is needed just to misgender people

[@supakawaii69]

The key to this one is issa waste of energy 🔑

[@nothefabio]

"Biology is the nature of pronouns" *Calls a boat "she"*

[@ninanano]

DolphinsWIthIgloos English isn’t one of them

[@LisaBeergutHolst]

@DolphinsWIthIgloos The Spanish word _masculinidad_ ('masculinity') has feminine grammatical gender. In French, the masculine noun _cheval_ ('horse') applies equally whether the animal is male or female (as does just about every other name for an animal). Some languages have three grammatical genders instead of two. It all seems pretty arbitrary to me.

[@silvercheetah92]

Language has whatever meaning we assign it

[@edivimaro1975]

@DolphinsWIthIgloos So Language supercedees science? Let's call you a molecule!!

[@edivimaro1975]

@DolphinsWIthIgloos You just did

[@chrisgregoire1246]

I got teary eyed after hearing the analogy about adopted children and parents. The analogy is so on point that it shows how big of an asshole you'd have to be to consciously not call someone by their desired pronouns.

[@brentwalker3300]

Shapiro refuses to do it because by refusing to do so he is virtue signaling. Oh the irony.

[@yoji0]

I'm a cis dork trying to be a good and respectable little ally. But I still have troubles and make self corrections; stuff that gets caught before it ever comes close to leaving my head, but it feels bad. Like there's a fragment of learned transphobia stuck inside there still and I can't cut it out. I feel ashamed a lot because of it. The part about adoptive parents really helped with that. I'm not sure it fixes things completely, but I at least feel pointed in the right direction now.

[@cleo42]

​@@yoji0 don't be too ashamed, even trans people generally have to deal with their own transphobia. The same way it took time to learn it, it will take time to get over it, but I'm sure you'll manage that eventually

[@vilagistene2939]

​@@cleo42So then all normal non-brain dead droid persons are transphobic? Transphobia starts with hating transgender people, not with refusing to use their pronouns or considering them male/female. Everyone has the right to decide who they think is a man and who is a woman. A brain dead droid who accepts another's reality instead of his own. As a liberal, I would tell a trans woman to refer to herself as she feels, but equally, to someone who thinks trans women are not women, I would say to refer to them as feys and ignore their feelings. Everyone should be loyal to themselves!!

[@vilagistene2939]

Because you're a pathetic mind-dead Nazi... and you're still surprised that Donald Trump won for you... You deserved it, but unfortunately he's also a climate denier and an animal hater, so it wasn't just the idiot Nazi who caused harm to Americans... You're incredibly pathetic with this childish sentimentality and with your disgusting collectivism! You are the same as Trump just in a different way!!

[@tetsubo57]

Ben is going to be really upset when he discovers that all words are made-up.

[@concibar4267]

And so we meet again! ^^ Excellent taste you have

[@Silverwind87]

Word mines don't care about your facts.

[@tetsubo57]

@@concibar4267

[@antebagaric1970]

If I were contrapoints, I'd be embarrassed by the stupidity of my fans. Contra is much smarter than 99% of 'comments' like this. Yes, all words are 'made up'. No, it doesn't mean you can use them any way you like. If you have a barque, you CAN call it 'my war galleon', if it makes you happy. but if you go out on a limb and start insisting that EVERYONE calls your barque 'war galleon' - because you feel like that - and then 'justify' that demand by saying that 'all words are made up anyway - I'm gonna just call you 'dumb'. And you are even free to believe that this MADE-UP word 'dumb', actually means that you are 'highy intelligent'.

[@JC-jd1us]

@@antebagaric1970 words matter sure but you know what matters more? Being polite if someone is really adamant about calling their barque a 'war gallon' then why not? What's the harm in that?

[@in_99]

I always wonder what pronouns Ben Shapiro would refer to an intersexed person as since he’s so concerned about pronouns and chromosomes

[@leobigelow7021]

Shapiro isn't the one with a solid half-hour, produced video on the topic.

[@tlamelangmasemola]

@@leobigelow7021 yet here you are, watching it💀

[@in_99]

@@leobigelow7021 Natalie would probably refer to them by whatever pronouns they preferred. This comment doesn’t even make any sense 😂

[@in_99]

@@beachwasher6140 intersex is a term used to describe people who’s anatomy doesn’t fit the binary of male or female. Even if they are assigned a legal sex, according to Ben Shapiro that doesn’t matter because the only thing that defines male and female is sexual anatomy and chromosomes. According to his logic, intersex people are by definition neither male or female. This obviously doesn’t even account for gender identity and natural variation in humans.

[@suzbone]

Ben would freak out and privately refer to an intersex person as "it"

[@xPoemi]

I have a feeling that a discussion like this could only happen in a place, where a language like english is spoken. You couldn't make the same argument as Ben Shapiro (that pronouns are linked to chromosomes) in the German or French language for example, where female and male pronouns are assinged to objects at random. In German a bus is male, a candle is female and so on. His arguments would make NO SENSE in those languages. Edit: Grammar

[@eykyra]

I am Spanish and his argument sounds completely stupid to me, but not only because we assign gender to inanimate objects, but because he fails at sustaining that in a natural conversation. No one goes around asking people about their chromosomes to use pronouns, we automatically assume them. So his determination of not using for trans people the pronouns of their identified gender is impossible to successfully commit to, as he may find trans women he would automatically refer to as she, unless they say they are trans. So my point is even if your native language is English, the use of pronouns it's pretty obvious if you think a little. We designate something with a particular word according to how we perceive that something, so his use of pronouns, despite what he says, would depend not on the chromosomes but on how much the person in particular looks like a woman or a man. So it clearly shows up that he's not actually talking about pronouns and what they refer to, but defending the idea that if you are a trans woman then you are really a man, and vice versa. We have people who defend the same idea here (despite ourgrammar being different gender-wise), maybe they would not say something as absurd as "pronouns depend on chromosomes", but there are people who say "Oh, you know that (insert trans celebrity) is really a man?". So no, his reasoning is not justified by nor related to the particular use of gender in English language, it's just bigotry. He's just refusing to accept the fact that trans people exist by insisting they really are the gender they were assigned at birth.

[@aablanco48]

@@eykyra I'm also an Spanish speaker and the conversation about gender identity/pronoms and the heated reaction on either side are somewhat difficult for me to relate. In Spanish our entire language it's binary (He, She) from people, objects, actions and even emotions; so gender neutrality it's really not something that can be considered as easily as in English. Yet even with all that it's very clear for me that Shapiro's bigotry has absolutely nothing to do with "Facts" or linguistics or word's and their meaning and use; and more with erasing a group identity and experience.

[@jamiel6005]

It’s almost like his arguments about language are a cover for hating trans people /s 😂

[@andreas4137]

What makes this especially funny is that English only has gendered pronouns as leftovers from being a Germanic language in the first place. English just for whatever reason got rid of its grammatical noun class system everywhere else in its morphology but its pronouns (Some other languages like Afrikaans did the same thing). Many languages (Finnish for example) just have a generic agender 3rd person singular pronoun, no equivalent to he or she. (Note: this doesn't magically make people that speak a language like this more progressive or something, it's just interesting how things we place such importance on may not always have direct equivalents in other languages.)

[@fluffyllama4073]

I agree. I live in the Philippines and our pronouns are actually gender-neutral so when I found out about how important pronouns are actually, I noticed that conversation is much more important for English-speaking countries.

[@SunnyDragonfly]

Parents who have adopted children are "Adoptive parents" yeah, and women who are trans are "trans women." You did it Benny!

[@saltmomtmissad8384]

It's such a good comparison that it's funny to watch him try to use it as a negative

[@superlolgal555]

@@saltmomtmissad8384 yeah I love how a lot of the things he said kind of went against the point he was trying to make.

[@premanadi]

So his problem is that we can say "trans women" but we only have one one version of "she" to use for everyone who is female. OK, just say "T-her," "T-she" and "T-ma'am," and stop complaining, Shapiro.

[@ryanthomas9306]

@@premanadi yah that's so logical

[@typicalo7406]

i hate Benneth Sharpie

[@i.j.dragonfly3123]

"If we don't base our use of pronouns on biology, how will we distinguish between trans and cis women?" You use the words "trans" and "cis," ya goof.

[@pigeon1178]

@hugo zubiria .. what? Buddy. Dude. Oh my god. Pronouns have literally nothing to do with your sex. Also your gender is whatever. It can be as big or a small of a deal as you like it to be, and you clearly think it's huge deal. Just chill. Cis and trans people have different experiences, and those terms can be used to differentiate them. Trans women are women, just as much as tall women are women or black women are woman or fat women are women. It takes just about no effort to use the pronouns the person asks you to and it's just polite

[@gemavaliente7675]

@hugo zubiria why are guys like you so obsessed with other peoples bodies?

[@lokalcrow1470]

@hugo zubiria And how old did you say you were? I refuse to believe you are more than a very spoiled, self-centered and egoistical 7 year old. Your level of ignorance and lack of empathy are astonishing, hope you get to mature someday.

[@ise1441]

OR, and hear me out, OR you don’t bother determining because it doesn’t mean anything? Since they’re both women,l?

[@missingdev0948]

@hugo zubiria nice egoism there buddy

[@karmasauce2323]

"Otherwise I will throw you in imaginary Canadian pronoun jail." As a Canadian I find this particularly amusing considering our official second language is French and that language (among others) has the audacity to assign genders to inanimate objects.

[@darkstar2874]

As someone with Québécois heritage who’s anglophone I’m still not fully over that time at my family reunion where I said “le table” and it became a running joke. That said if I can survive misgendering a table other people can survive having to correct themselves when they misgender a *person.*

[@sandroselladore3506]

"has the audacity" XD

[@labistellaire3983]

I can proudly claim That i have the femininity of an axe!

[@tortis6342]

@@labistellaire3983 That just randomly reminded me of that one OKGO lyric where he sings: "She's got a body like a battleaxe."

[@labistellaire3983]

@@tortis6342 transition goals

[@ThreeArrows]

Its really something how everyone just quietly ignored that the Bill C16 stuff turned out to be a giant hoax.

[@Luisito45ful]

Exactly. I mentioned this a few people at a meetup when I met Natalie in Boston a couple of months ago. By the way love your channel!!! :)

[@nonemo138]

Hey Drei pfeile! I binge watched your videos today. You're easily one of the most educational channels around. Big ups!

[@AlexMaskill]

When pushed Peterson would always immediately start conflating the non-prison punishment for the C16 updates with the potentially prison-y punishment he'd face for Contempt of Court in not complying with the punishment for the C16 violations, and I never saw him called on this sudden massive goalpost-shifting or its consequent implications.

[@brewmastermonk9356]

Or the powers-that-be in Canada know that they got called out on their stupid shit and are waiting for the public to forget about JBP.

[@snek9353]

That's an illogical argument. There's no way to know what would have come of Bill C16 had Jordan Peterson not made it an issue. The law did have consequences written into it. There's no reason not to think it would have been enforced. It could be just as easily argued that Jordan effectively negated the bill with his resistance and that had he not resisted there would have been actions taken by now. In fact the Lindsay Shepard scandal nearly proves the later point true.

[@Silverwind87]

Ben Shapiro: Trans people shouldn't be asking others to use certain pronouns, they should be getting medical help. Trans Person: *takes HRT* Ben Shapiro: no not like that

[@undeniablySomeGuy]

only act the way I like, nooo

[@AddedSugar9]

he isnt wrong. We all want different things in life, you get over it and move on. Not chop your dick off and call yourself by a different name.,

[@regularnerd8957]

@@AddedSugar9 Since gender identity isn't something you can "get over and move on", your statement is non practical, useless and wrong.

[@ThePotatoSapien]

@PUNMPKIN what is this conversation XD

[@GoddoDoggo]

@@AddedSugar9 This is like saying, "We all want different things in life, you get over it and move on, not quit your job and move to LA to become a famous actor." SOME people do that, and are in fact very successful at it. It doesn't work for everyone, no, but, like... it does for some. Frankly it sounds like you gave up all of your dreams and ambitions to work in IT and now you're projecting that regret and depression onto everyone else.

[@madpoetsociety2917]

I actually kind of feel sorry for Shapiro's daughter. I was raised in a really weird way by my stereotypical militaristic, misogynist dad. When I acted girly (I am a cis woman) he would often patronize me (or just outright abuse me) but when I acted more masculine in order to please him (because that's what I do. I just want to be liked by everyone all the time.) his initial reaction would be approval until it hit him that I was still biologically female and then he accused me of being a lesbian (more than once). The point is, I guess, dads who are vehemently gender normative or who have veiled, misogynistic attitudes (like my dad) really are hell to live with. No matter what you do, you're still a just bitch. Needless to say, we don't speak anymore.

[@BlackSheepNara]

Mad Poet Society omfg same. All of it. Same. I'm sorry things were like that.

[@Blutzen]

Hey, you don't know me and I don't know you, but I'm sorry your dad is an asshole and I hope you have a good day.

[@Shinkada]

Their subconscious end goal is to train you to act like a woman but also train you to accept abuse and marginalization while doing so. I'm sorry you had to go through that.

[@thorsten8790]

I grew up in a traditional family and thrived meanwhile one girl i knew cut herself regurlarly because of her alcohol adddiction that she got because her parents wanted her to explore herself. Traditional gender roles Work for most people

[@TheEwqua]

Mad Poet Society Very much same. When you act girly, you're treated as inferior. When you act manly, you're told that you're not supposed to do that. As if you're supposed to act like the inferior human breed you apparently are.

[@shaniatreyu9303]

My 3yo niece: "Why is auntie an uncle now?" Me: "Because your auntie wanted to be a boy so he's uncle now." Niece: "Oh, ok."

[@brendan904]

Yeah because that's how it works

[@suzbone]

@@brendan904 that *is* how it works, actually, and you're just going to have to get over it.

[@danny98432]

Literally one of the easiest conversations to have with a young child I stg

[@falcon_arkaig]

​@@brendan904 My child cousin understood perfectly that I was a boy now (I'm ftm), she had no problem understanding when she was 5-6 years old. It's not confusing to toddlers, it's only confusing to close minded people

[@sealogic4552]

@@falcon_arkaig it’s only confusing specifically to people who choose to be confused

[@JadeDRail]

I think if people can call their boats "she" they can handle calling a trans woman "she".

[@husband-of-chinggis]

THAT'S SO INCREDIBLE I CAN'T--

[@Zohairshanteer]

Depends how womanly she looks. If I meet someone new and they look manly to me yet they personally identify as a woman. I'd call them he,his Because that's what we're used to. Not because I'm transphobic.

[@rajapromige8237]

@@Zohairshanteer this is ironic, right?

[@rg-ed5fr]

Zuhair shantir My dude, do you use the same logic on ships?

[@JadeDRail]

@@Zohairshanteer Yeah we were socially conditioned to call people based on their physical appearance, but it's not hard to change the way you call someone when they straight up tell you what they want. There are cis women who look very masculine. Would you call them he/him if they asked you to use she/her? Probably not. It's almost like it's not about appearance.

[@midnightsg]

A little personal but oh well I gotta write this... I just wanted to thank you for these videos. I'm a basic AF cis mom living in the deep south - still stuck in the 1950s. I was one of those 'southern liberals,' blissfully ignorant but thinking they are being super progressive. A year ago I didn't even know what cis meant until I stumbled on your videos. (KZbin recommended you after a Lindsay Ellis video.) It is so weird to describe, but, as deep and avant-garde you present your videos to be... you also lay everything out so.damn.well! You've really opened my eyes to horrible things I didn't even know were horrible. At first, I felt so ashamed of realizing there is this whole group of people I've never recognized and possibly offended. I almost started pulling away like people often do, but the presentation of your videos really keep me hooked and engaged with learning more. I guess I just wanted to thank you, as cheesy as it sounds, for all the work and effort you've dumped into these long video essays. I know how rare it is to change someone's opinion on the internet... while I still have a long way to go, I gotta admit, you really have opened my eyes. Also, like... did you make that hat? Because holy shit.

[@darrishawks6033]

Soon you'll join a Marxist-Leninist party and be calling for the overthrow of the bourgeoisie

[@Tremulantone]

Hell Yeah Dude @@darrishawks6033

[@lubu2960]

@@darrishawks6033 you can join too, dont be shy

[@su2471]

aw thanks @midnightsg for writing this--it made my night!

[@darrishawks6033]

@@lubu2960 I'm already in a marxist-leninist party lol PSL

[@edithsjoberg4643]

Contra: I am a woman in identity and in expression I am a mess Me, a cis woman: Same

[@sandroselladore3506]

me, a gender non conforming person: i am a mess

[@giasharie274]

Basically me when I saw that part

[@anascarlet]

Good. Being perfectly feminine is not realistic.

[@ctwofirst6635]

Contra, I'm a cis woman in my 60s. I have never felt at all feminine, even though that was the only option for cis women when I was young. You are a gem. I wish women like you existed when I was 20. My life would have been completely different. I feel more free to be more of who I am because you and people like you exist. xx

[@StellaTerraClemens]

Christine Jorgensen came out, very very publicly in 1952. It's not that trans-women weren't around, it's just been a fight that's been going on continuously since the '50s in the US.

[@unblorbosyourshows9635]

This is a beautiful comment :(

[@josh-oo]

Speaking of 60s, how were the 1960s for you? It's a pretty cool decade, just in terms of art and music, so I'm always interested in hearing more personal accounts. If you're willing to share.

[@ohijohnson4259]

Beautiful.

[@ctwofirst6635]

@@josh-oo I was a child of neglectful parents in the 60s. I grew up in San Francisco, so was exposed to lots of amazing music and art. But too young to fully participate, which is something that I regret even though there was nothing I could do about it. It *was* a pretty cool decade - even the 70s were pretty cool, especially compared to what we're dealing with now.

[@ewi6779]

in my native language i would call a book "a she", a table "a he", a chair "an it" etc. could ben shapiro explain how to check my computer's karyotype to be sure it is indeed a he??

[@notrod5341]

Even in English we call ships "she".

[@seretonindealer9440]

Suddenly, my book has an XY I wasn't made aware of. brilliant

[@ryanthomas9306]

My dumbass neighbor calls his car sheila / her. Does that mean I have to ?

[@attilabalint5776]

My native language doesn't have gender-specific pronouns at all.

[@CDexie]

@@ryanthomas9306 This comment is dismissing the notion that "biology is the nature of pronouns".

[@chrisjackson6149]

The "how do I explain this to my child" argument never made any sense to me. How do you explain to your children that at some point their parents will die? How do you explain to your children that they could die in a school shooting and they have to reharse and hold drills to prepare for such event? How do you explain to your children how sex works? Just because something is difficult to understand doesn't mean your child should be unaware of it. Learning about death did more to my psyche than realizing transgender people exist ever could, and yet they're things children simply have to learn at some point.

[@IAmNumber4000]

Ikr. Also there is an intense laziness to the whole thing. Keeping your child locked in Plato’s cave because you’re too lazy/dumb to explain things to them 😂

[@vilagistene2939]

He is a normal parent, he never talks to his child about sexuality and most children would not allow this to their parents. Most kids would probably slap their parents right away if they even started talking about such a topic. Transgender is different, but I think most kids don't care and it's not a problem.

[@mantistoboggan1503]

​@@vilagistene2939 explaining the birds and the bees to your children is so commonplace that we have multiple specific phrases for it in common parlance. Also like all schools have some kind of sex education program (as woeful as a lot of them can be) because it's, yknow, important.

[@lorisschirar6680]

Not to mention that there is a non zero chance that your child turns up being transgender / non-binary themselves, and hence would benefit from already having at least heard of the topic. Communicating your own acceptance of trans people early on can help them be more comfortable with it so they don’t stay in the closet and struggle with dysphoria / depression and so on when growing up. The very outdated rhetoric of « what if representation turns my children gay* » is harmful in more ways than one imo.

[@dean7301]

O great Ben Shapiro, please end the decades long German debate over the grammatical gender of Nutella and tell us the karyotype of this sweetened hazelnut coca spread

[@curtmacquarrie]

its full of nuts so its gotta be male. I have spoken.

[@MrCmon113]

Das Nutella. Die Butter.

[@jmns9595]

Here in Brazil we call it "A Nutella", "a" being the feminine article

[@dean7301]

@@jmns9595 That's cool, thank you for your input! As far as I understand the way the name came to be was the (italian) inventor using the english word "nut" and adding the italian diminutive suffix -ella, so it's interesting to see that carries over to Brazil :)

[@lavenderhuman]

Die Nutella Only valid answer

[@PhilosophyTube]

5:44 You just gonna quote me like that without attribution?

[@NeivGabay]

Turns out everybodys fave liberal communist is a patron

[@Tsukikorao]

She references you again at 27:44

[@NaomiGigi]

@@Tsukikorao xD

[@Jane-nu1gl]

@@Tsukikorao ouch hey!

[@anarchocompactdick]

God i know i love pda but damn olly yall are next level 😘

[@TehJaytius]

The clip where he accidentally uses Laverne Cox’s preferred pronoun and then has to hastily correct himself is the clearest example of how this talk of biology isn’t an ignorant interpretation of science or a sincere belief on Ben’s part. It’s performative cruelty that he has to actively make himself engage in. That he seems to derive a kind of pleasure from it would be almost pitiable if he didn’t make so much money from it.

[@Raketemensch-fl3sv]

Yeah i don't know what to make of that, or one time milo yanopa-whatever proudly indicated that he was 'deliberately mis-gendering' some person. At times i can get that, if someone believes trans people are just delusional or attention-seeking or, i dunno, gross or whatever objection they might have, that they'd bristle at being pressured to use a different pronoun*. And that's unfortunate. But yeah, ben shapiro and the like don't strike me that way, i think your 'performative' is spot on. 'Cruelty' though, i don't know... it's just the assholery posing as bravery that's his brand and gets his audience off. Although even that crowder guy who shares shapiro's audience and politics will still actually be civil and call people by the right pronoun from what i've seen. And that's a pretty fucked up editorial standard for a publication in any case.

[@TehJaytius]

Raketemensch 00000 I don’t know how useful it is to debate the semantics, but to me “assholery” is the kind of behaviour that you’d find in a typical episode of House MD or Sherlock. Ben actively lies about marginalised groups of people to promote his ideology, gets well paid to do it and seems to enjoy being nasty to people. If that’s not cruelty to you then perhaps my bar for that label is lower than yours. But I don’t think it’s defensible behaviour either way. Even if we grant that the way he acts is just his “brand” and he’s not actually a bad person in his heart, that just means he’s a mendacious coward who’ll say things he doesn’t believe for a quick buck.

[@account2871]

Cruelty? No it's the refusal to feed a delusion, but even then of course he accidentally used the wrong pronoun, because HE LOOKS LIKE A GIRL. You know who looks like girls? GIRLS DO. Real women typically look like girls, so of course the pronoun has connection to biology

[@CP-ll6qg]

Account: You can argue that it's wrong for biological males to dress and act as women (I disagree, but you could argue it), but the idea that pronoun use actually naturally comes from biology is pretty clearly false in any practical sense. In fact, in actual scientific contexts, pronouns are very rarely used to identify biological sex. We use "male" and "female" in research, and if you started calling, say, ginkgo trees, "girls," you'd be in some trouble with your editor. Often, "it" is actually used instead of "she/he" in plant and animal studies because it feels so damn strange to call a tree "she" (though people certainly do sometimes) even if its biological sex is known. When he/she pronouns are used, though, that alone is not enough for science-you have to specify "male" or "female," even in human medical trials sometimes. The idea that pronouns as a language tool come from biological or genetic sex is pretty easy to disprove. This argument doesn't really say anything about whether trans people are "real," but it does say something about Shapiro's argument. This particular point is outright illogical-it comes from political goals and personal views about trans people, not from a truth about language use. Coming from someone who so prides logic and facts, it becomes laughable.

[@Frogthroat1]

I think in Ben's case he wants to believe this because of his religion. And he is absolutely within his rights to do so. His aversion to preferred pronouns is justified. Justified by his religion, that is. We, as a society, give extra leeway to religions. Bigotry, close mindness, discrimination and cruelty are all fine, as long as you do it in the name of religion. Just remember to say your particular god is just and loving and you can pick up your pitchforks and torches with a clear conscience. And as long as we, as a society, keep giving religions exemptions, we can't really say anything against religion based bigotry. We enable it after all.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

"Look at that blonde girl over there" "Blonde? Where?" "The one with green hair" "Then why didn't you say 'green-haired girl' or something?" "Cause that is not her natural hair color" "Well I know it's pretty obvious but there is nothing blonde about her hair now." "Facts don't care about her dry ends. Blondie." EDIT: heeey this blew up unexpectedly lol So I’ve seen a few people in the comments who didn’t understand the use of this analogy so I decided to go a little further: First of all, this is just a joke for funsies. I would never say something like this if I was in a debate with Mr. Shapiro over there. And second of all, this analogy just applies to the situation of someone insisting on misgendering a trans person, usually binary, who passes, ending up confusing the people around them. If you point to a woman in the crowd and refer to her as a man, the other party won’t know who you’re talking about and you’ll just look stupid and petty. This is not a situation that can be applied to non-binary trans people or binary trans people who “don’t pass”, such as my own, because the misgendering happens in a different way in this case. By the way, my pronouns are he/him, if any of you need to refer to me in the replies. I wish all of you a very nice day and leave a friendly reminder for you to drink water and not skip your meals 💕

[@jmiddleton7518]

Don’t forget eyes, and people who need contacts to see may have contacts that change their eye color. You’d say their eye color is that of what the contact changed it to, but you can’t call a person with XX chromosomes a boy? Kinda confused.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

Taichi Fujisaki exactly. In the end it goes down to referring to anyone as being naked because they weren’t born with clothes.

[@epicman4208]

@Ali Arafat The person you replied to was making fun of transphobes, not being transphobic. They're implying that the whole situation they wrote is stupid, and that trans people should be called whatever pronouns they identify with.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

​@Ali Arafat ................ I'm a trans man.

[@NosebleeddeGroselha]

@Ali Arafat i was making a joke please don't yell at me i'm already sad enough these days 😢

[@theredshirts7245]

There is something that has yet to change my mind on this topic: Ben Shapiro was born as crying baby. And he still presents as one.

[@mad_8321]

PREACH 😭🤚

[@Iamhere829]

Ayooo 🤣🤣

[@CJ-nv6ju]

It's funny how Ben Shapiro realized he almost argued against himself when going from the adoptive parent example back to the dinner example. He says there's a difference between the biological fact of being a parent and then the social role of 'parent' which adoptive parents can fulfill. Next he says there's the biological fact of Blaire having been born male, but just before saying she fills the role of being a woman he stutters a bit and chooses instead to say Blaire is a man who looks like a woman. I guess he'll have to change his catchphrase to "facts don't care about your feelings, *they only care about mine.*"

[@phoenixdavida8987]

lol

[@lilacrain3283]

You should watch Some More News’ video on our boy Benjamin. He goes deep into that and does the best job I’ve seen of breaking down the flaws of Ben’s positions and arguments

[@curtmacquarrie]

His argument during that piece became "yes, it would clearly be more useful and expedient to just call you a woman, but then how would you know I don't respect you?"

[@user-ub9mm4vr5k]

Blaire said in one of her videos that she interacted with Ben in real life and that he called her by she/her pronouns. I think Ben would call trans people by their preferred pronouns, but he has a conservative audience, which he’d lose if he admitted that it is possible to use preferred pronouns for trans people.

[@lazyperfectionist3978]

@@user-ub9mm4vr5k That's honestly pretty sad. I mean I don't feel sorry for him specifically, but it is sad that his audience are the kinds of people who'd lynch his career if he showed an ounce of respect publically