What Is Going on With Star Citizen? (SaltEMike, Morphologis, TheAstroPub, Tree 0311)

We have been on the road to 4.0 for a few years, now. 2023 is looking less and less likely to be that year. The flow of information has slowed, and the player feels meaningful changes are slow due to PES slowing down deliveries. Is it really that bad? How does this compare to the pre-3.0 drought? What can we expect for the rest of the year? All this and more today on Citizen Central with a few of the longest-running Star Citizen content creators on KZbin.
‪@SaltEMike‬
KZbin: / @saltemike
Twitch: / saltemike
‪@TheAstroHistorian‬
KZbin: / @theastrohistorian
Twitch: / theastropub
‪@Morphologis‬
Twitch: ⁠ / morphologis
KZbin: ⁠⁠⁠⁠ / @morphologis
‪@tree0311‬
KZbin: / @tree0311
Twitch:⁠ / tree0311
ToC:
00:00 Introductions
14:45 Star Citizen 3.20
37:00 Are We in a Content Drought?
55:00 The Rest of The Year
01:17:13 Star Citizen 4.0
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#starcitizen #spacetomato #podcast

[@nd6886]

[Deleted by Nightrider-CIG]

[@bsquaredbundles]

He's just doing his job.

[@Spike.SpiegeI]

Love everything about this. Long deep dive conversation and all star cast. Please create more of these!!

[@TastyChickenLegs]

Never ceases to amaze me of the quality of content and quality of content providers in the Star Citizen community. The intelligence, level of understanding, researching of topics and articulation of the facts and issues is just awesome. Props to you Tomato and your cast for another incredible production.

[@SeniorCritizen]

Baby introduced...only Space Tomato smiles.

[@tree0311]

Boone has met "Uncle Paul" LOL.

[@BigWinn]

I see you, Tree! Good podcast!

[@tree0311]

Thanks! It was fun and just luck that I was able to be on hahaha

[@vorpalrobot]

​@@tree0311

[@tree0311]

@@vorpalrobot Yeah we're definitely going to need to do a predictions episode and then a recap when I get back!

[@moondogg_monte]

Some heavy hitters on this roster! Weeooo!

[@DasBullWy]

I'd say this is one of the best discussions around the current state of the game out there. I really hope CIG sees this, but even if they do, will the marketing team care? 😅

[@Joseph-wh5of]

This is probably the best podcast I've seen so far. Good job, tomato and everyone else.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it

[@DamonCzanik]

I disagree. There's no substance here. Just some content creators whining that probably need to step away from the game for a while. Sure, call CIG out but nobody needs 75 minutes straight of bitching. It was depressing.Nobody offered a different point of view. It was a content creator circle jerk. Bring some people with different opinions and make it interesting.

[@Joseph-wh5of]

@DamonCzanik You, my friend, are a lost cause. This was a different perspective. All for these content creators makes some of the best, most comprehensive, and high-quality positive star citizen content. Unfortunately, for star citizen, it's been a decade of development, and the game is still a buggy Alpha tech demo. Moreover, this has been a really bad year for star citizen over all. Many people have dropped off the game because it simply isn't interesting. And nothing's going on. It's only logical that these four people who dedicate hours of their lives to this game and make a living off of it. These individuals who have been backing the game for 10 years now and still have an alpha product are allowed to voice their discontent.

[@moonfly1]

59:00 - not everyone is OK with bad news, but even so, bad news when delivered appropriately is better than no news at all.

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Indeed!

[@Ocmersh]

Before even watching. I'm glad SaltEMike is here to balance out the... optimism 😀

[@benthomson1132]

I'm 30 minutes in, it looks like you didn't have anything to worry about.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Yes, my favourite part is always when he goes *REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE* And makes the entire project about his feelings Oh, and when he literally makes shit up that's always completely wrong Must be hard whining about literally everything from behind a keyboard

[@ryanmitchell4044]

⁠@@Uncanny_MountainI mean… you’d know. You are crying about people criticizing star citizen every time you’re in the comments. Even the slightest criticism is too much for you to bear.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

@@ryanmitchell4044 criticism hurts his facts' feelings.

[@robertocanales1201]

Good talk, kind of cathartic though 😁. I don’t have any expectations, I just enjoy what’s there whenever I can. Life is too short. I always laugh when that guy starts to sing in Tomato’s streams 😅

[@unobtanium]

Imo, something that doesnt seem to be on peoples radar much: Once DSM is released, CIG will likely work on improving the OCS networking rules for years. While we have everything functional at that point, it might not be very optimized yet. And I wouldnt be surprised if it takes them another 7 years to get DSM into a very mature state. Especially when it comes to scenario-specific networking rules. Such as large scale space and ground battles, or certain events, or the splitting of large and capital ship interiors across multiple game servers. While this also effects the game servers (less loaded and networked), the game client is still going to be the Final Frontier. CIG will have to make sure that the game runs well for the player. And there needs to be a lot of networking tricks involved to make that run well and still have it look as good as possible.

[@unobtanium]

1:04:43 This is a good point by Tree. CIG indeed said they want to move the RL out of the DGS and onto its own server before releasing SM. But from a development/business perspective, it would also make sense to just develop the RL separation internally, then test it a few times in Evo/PTU, then wait till Server Meshing is done internally, then roll out both (plus Pyro) to the PTU and PU. Because as tree said, having the RL run on a separate server might be great for CIG for testing that the separation works (and maybe for slight performance improvement on the DGSs), but I think it will also increase server cost for CIG. If it takes half a year between RL separation and SM, then CIG might think twice to spend that money already (especially when the benefits may still be minimal). And thus, only testing in Evo/PTU might be enough. Is that something we want? Well, I for one would like to see how a separted RL performs on the PU before SM is added. However, one argument that I can think of that would go against this is that each shard might not initially consist of one DGS and an "actual RL server". Maybe a RL server can handle multiple shards/DGSs. Meaning that shards would only be logically separated from each other. All shards and their data would still be independent, but data from multiple shards might go through the same RL server (like one RL server for 10 shards). All this would depend on the load on the RL servers and cost of such servers or even how CIG decide how shards are being setup. If the number of RL serverd is low then it might not be that much of an increase in server cost. Of course, this too isnt how CIG explained it to the public. Each shard is supposed to have its own RL server/Hybrid Service alongside a single DGS. CIG not mentioning this could be explained away by this being already complicated enough. So adding such a technical cloud infrastructure detail (on how shards/RL are not actually separated but only logically separated from each other) wont necessarily help the layman understand any of this or whats going on. It just makes it unncessarily confusing. And with how there are still a few people who dont understand the difference between shard and DGS, I would understand CIG leaving such details out and keeping it simple :D

[@tree0311]

You make several good points I hadn't even considered, thanks for your input, love your Unofficial Roadmap! Thanks for your service to the community.

[@unobtanium]

@@tree0311 Thanks, glad you like it :) I remember watching a couple of your and Nazeris videos. Good stuff 👍

[@moonfly1]

Good points but I can't help reminded that every single time things are going wrong for CIG, they typically go silent on that subject. I feel like this is happening right now with meshing and the road to pyro. They're busy struggling with PES and getting that out of the woods, and little is happening beyond that, at least this is how it feels to me.

[@tree0311]

@@moonfly1 to be fair, they almost never tell us much of anything about networking and backend development. We get vague mentions surrounding it, like we've had for Server Meshing in the Monthly Reports, but that's it. We're also in the Summer content drought before CitizenCon, and we can see what teams are working on Server Meshing. The Entity Tech System is supporting Server Meshing Development, and I doubt we're going go hear anything until the 3.18 branch post mortem at most, and probably not until CitizenCon.

[@moonfly1]

@@tree0311 they have produced multiple long detailed videos on all these things, but they're all hype videos talking about what they've been working on in the context of "possibilities". When the work comes together they set the hype train alight, but when the going gets tough they go silent.

[@teemos2732]

Holy sh*t - what a line-up ;o)

[@Wind_Lord]

A small point on what Paul said. Static server meshing isn’t “functionally the same as dynamic server meshing”. Static servers have to be predetermined as to what they cover in game, so there would be a massive difference again between static and dynamic in terms of all the things that it frees up. If static allows for an extension to the game area and better server performance on those servers, then dynamic is the reactionary system which spins up those extra servers where the server performance dictates it is needed. For example having two static servers for Stanton and Pyro will alleviate the load only insofar what we have to stream in is shared between those two. The same issues will remain if everyone is in one of those servers. Yea you can place a server per planet etc… but static servers won’t be in place to cover an impromptu org battle with many ships for example as it would be predetermined by whichever server it happened to be in and will still load whatever else was in it’s designated area.

[@Warius5]

I agree with Mike, They dont tell us their game designs for loops, what the game will actually BE. THey need to do that

[@maverik19671]

excellent video,more please

[@alyxander8897]

Good crew for this one

[@alexandrep4913]

Except Astropub

[@alyxander8897]

@@alexandrep4913 the Lord of Lore shall forgive your insult

[@alexandrep4913]

​@alyxander8897 could care less about his opinions, they are worthless. The fool tried inserting his political leanings into the game and got mad when people were like "no".

[@alyxander8897]

@@alexandrep4913 lol k

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Yes! I love Mike's screeching voice and Morph pretending he's a Princess Two of my favourite edgelords who get literally everything wrong 😂

[@unobtanium]

1:29:28 No more Jesus Patch anymore? Petition for calling it the Brian Patch :D

[@vagabondprime1691]

Great talk, thanks everyone!

[@TheGlassSword]

From what I understand 30:00 the A1 Bombay’s were already modeled

[@unobtanium]

1:25:15 This is also my understanding/hope. The changes that have to be made for dynamic SM are going to be far less invasive to the game engine than any of the previous engine reworks that got us OCS, PES and Static SM. My hope is that - with the Entity Authority implementation from 2021 and now PES, the RL and its separation - large scale engine reworks are soon going to be behind us. And thus gameplay and content creation can be looked at as something to stay, since they will have to reworked those less often. Which might have been one big reason why CIG hold off with introducing all the professions and gameplay (imo we have seen nothing yet) which would have had to be touched each time as well. Which, btw, is also a form of preemtively avoiding unnecessary tech debt. So, on that front I am not opposed to them having it done this way. But it sure does not paint SC in a good light in regards to the seemingly little progress on gameplay being made (especially relative to what has been planned).

[@eartheater3956]

Unfortunately I don't think the lack of professions and other features are being held back by the main tech per se. I have a feeling they still haven't nailed down what and how these things will even work in a gameplay sense. The recent show on hull munching illustrates this in my opinion.

[@tree0311]

@@eartheater3956 That's the point, they couldn't start prototyping this until the foundation these things would be built upon was in. Doing so beforehand would be a waste of time and effort because you wouldn't know what the limitations of the tech are, how it would and wouldn't be able to function, etc. This is why they've been telling us this for years. Sure they can draw pictures, but you don't start working on a system until the foundational tech it is built upon is in.

[@martinhirsch128]

we currently do not have Static SM in game though. I agree that figuring out the RL separation and static SM are the big "under the hood" operations. honestly, especially the RL separation was mentioned as reason for the lackluster NPC performance.

[@tree0311]

@@martinhirsch128 When was that mentioned? NPC performance is dictated by Server Tick rate, and while we can theorize that moving the Replication Layer off the server may improve that, I haven't seen that said.

[@martinhirsch128]

​@@tree0311 I believe it was during an ISC conversation on AI behaviors, some time after last Citcon I believe, topic was behaviors on Orison platforms. The point was that they are "fudging" the AI behaviours for both high and low server tick rates at the moment. The gist was that separating the RL will help stabilize tick rate as it is a task that - while now running as separate process - is still being handled by the physical server the shard runs on. Definitely, 100% not a cure for all server tick issues, didnt meant to imply that

[@titansquirrel4408]

I have a feeling that us not being in pyro is very good for development of pyro, i actually hope this process continues through every system where they develop it as close to final as possible on a closed environment without having to make it all playable and bug free as they go

[@checkfortunnels]

Watching this in the future, on the topic of things not existing if there isn't a card for it or CIG isn't talking about it, several things have been added in 3.20 PTU that didn't have cards and were not being talked about prior to them being introduced.

[@CitizenScott]

44:04 Just wait guys, S42 features will transfer to PU with ease and the flood gates will open soon… haha

[@Joseph-wh5of]

Hahaha

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

Nice animated background. Did you create this yourself?

[@Libertas_P77]

Some feedback, Tomato, would be to publish concise 10min clips on some of the highlights of a podcast like this. I simply don’t have the time to watch a 1hr 45min talk, although doubtless will find a lot of the commentary very interesting with a group like this. I think you’d find clips will do well as a follow up.

[@northendtrooper]

Would recommend to download the podcast. Great for doing chores/driving/etc.

[@Jervis1938]

I'd also say we can do with a lot less intro, especially when the guests are regulars - it was 9:30 before we got into the first question.

[@EiriUesugiKun]

Hey, these are short. Mooler and gang does 8 hour podcasts. Great to listen while binge-playing. :D

[@Libertas_P77]

@@EiriUesugiKun I’m sure it’s great for some, but for anybody busy in life, the prospect of listening to them for that length of time even when I’m doing other things isn’t appealing. Clips with concise topics covered off and the best insights are what I think a number of us would like.

[@techscw]

He clips out portions of the long form podcast into shorter videos already, it might be several days after the initial release though

[@Jared_Throw]

Honestly, I feel they should have developed the original game within scope and delivered that, and take that money and tech base and build up from there to what they've been (supposedly) working on currently.

[@SolarWindsRider]

To be honest, I think people are tired of "this will test out things for PU". Yes, SQ42 or AC are nice testing grounds. But it's about time to actually have things IN the PU itself. How many more decades of testing do you need?

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

False Assumption Fallacy Your opinions have zero relevance to the project

[@eartheater3956]

​@@Uncanny_Mountain what is the false assumption in that person's statement?

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@eartheater3956 "to be honest, I think people are tired of this will test out things for the PU" "But it's about time to actually have things in the PU How many more decades of testing do you need Three False Assumption Fallacies

[@ryanmitchell4044]

⁠@@Uncanny_Mountainnone of those were assumptions. Two were opinions, and one was a question. You don’t know what an assumption is. This MFer cries in the comments every day when people criticize SC even in the slightest he’ll accuse them of logical fallacies to avoid an argument.

[@ryanmitchell4044]

@@eartheater3956if you are unfortunate enough to hang around comments sections for SC long enough you’ll see this guy accusing people of fallacies in every comments section for any reason under the sun. There is no fallacy. He’s just mad when someone is critical of the game.

[@splooshnoonley5620]

Mike really captures how I/the community feel(s) about production and has done that for years. When the community is optimistic Mike captures it and now that we're frustrated and feeling burnt out he captures that too. Great video please do more

[@moppin]

Are we going to be able to pirate the Hull-C? If only the Hull-C can fit 32-SCU boxes then pirates will need a Hull-C too (lame). Then, where will there be a NQA terminal where we can sell 32-SCU boxes? There are so many unknowns with the Hull-C introduction I cannot get hyped for it. CIG is setting themselves up for even more backer disappointment IMO.

[@forcommenting1017]

I think it's a good time for Star Citizen, the game performance is up, and hopefully there's a good citcon on the horizon. While SC development is a painful thing to be a part of, I really do believe in their vision. I just hope the faith in the project rebounds after the ICACHE thing, there will be more patches that blow up the game to come.

[@luke5g230]

Great show and conversations thanks everyone

[@erb34]

SQ42 starring John Wayne and Gene Kelly

[@theadventuresofjimmycrapol8827]

Sure, the Hull C will be out before the gameplay for it is ready... but you could say the same about a lot of other ships in game, especially The Carrack, where the Map room is a waste of space right now, no other systems to "explore" and the cargo doors still don't open - so you can even use it for the new cargo play. How many times has the Carrack been voted "best ship"?

[@aksimel]

Simple reason no Q4 patch and current patches are light - all hands on deck to get SQ42 launched by whatever date they announce at Citizen Con.

[@Agent-yc2ii]

What a great cast.

[@thibni_]

Damn, the one time I've decided to listen to your Podcast and Astro didn't want to present himself 🤣. He ended up doing it, but... loolll

[@criticalchai]

Ever since they had private servers in the list of stuff you can purchase I had hoped that at some point they would reveal that outside of the core star systems all the others would be player owned. Then have some kind of system to either pick from planets/nebulas/features to build a custom system from or just a catalog of systems. since the jump points can fluxuate it would be easy to open and close them as people purchase them or dropped subscription or what ever the reason. Or it could be the end goal to purchase star systems or worlds. But that's kinda pie in the sky thinking and wouldn't hold my breath for the feature but something to suggest to them

[@Kev-A]

I’m looking forward to multi crew pirate swarm. Just want to coop and kill waves of enemies with my buddies.

[@talifurn]

I'm so sorry for all the content creators related to Star Citizen that struggle because there's not so much content to be made due to the content drought... :/ Awesome talking tho !

[@austinismorbid4182]

Server meshing has to be done before we get Pyro correct?

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

Yes, but mainly only because CIG want to use Server Meshing for handing of players off between the Pyro and Stanton servers. Early on it was planned for SM to split solar systems (Stanton) so we could have gotten SM without Pyro. But since loading more locations is so demanding on the game servers, CIG seems to have prioritized jumppoints and Pyro before introducing those inner solar system splits and handoffs.

[@eartheater3956]

​@@SETHthegodofchaos I'm a layman as far as this stuff goes, and not that it bothers me, but why do they need SM to put in pyro? Could it not just be on a different server/servers?

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

@@eartheater3956 I mean, on some sense the two solar systems will be on their own separate servers. But I guess what you mean is choosing the solar system from the PU main menu. If I remember correctly it comes down to two things: 1) CIG is of the opinion that Pyro works best with/needs Stanton. They want us to prepare in Stanton and then move out to do adventures in Pyro. For this you need those seamless loading and transitions. This is indeed more of a design/gameplay decision made by CIG rather than a hard technical dependency. 2) Another point is that Pyro and SM were always planned to release together as Alpha 4.0. With how long Persistence with iCache and PES has taken, CIG are now prioritizing Jumppoints and Authority Transfers within those jumppoints, so that they can deliver Pyro asap (because supposedly it is done). The Authority Transfers within a solarsystem will therefore likely follow afterwards. Which is where I expect gains to be made, as a single solar system is still too large to be run well by a single server.

[@ArokhXIII]

SaltE is really difficult in this discussions. Dont get me wrong, I think its important that there are critical dissenting voices. But you can tell with every sentence that hes just done with CIG and that makes for a very uncomfortable atmosphere. Even though he raised a few important points

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Sick of his whining lady voice He sounds like a Trust Fund baby 😂

[@ryanmitchell4044]

Thought he did great. Seemed to give a really unbiased opinion.

[@nathannix7540]

a gathering of titans

[@OnZeeAir]

SPOILER Alert! @1:37:45 here’s the only one around who will see the final game LOL Sorry just trolling :-) Real life, lovely baby, this is what helps balancing frustration and other emotions

[@tree0311]

He's a good kid, and has literally been raised listening to AstroPub and Space Tomato in the background, to the point that when I put them on the living room TV while I'm cooking or picking up around the house, he comes running.

[@pvtspartan]

Road to 3.99.9

[@SpeedFragger]

o7

[@Swedishfishtank]

How about this... How about they make the game as other MMO sandbox games with multiple servers that is functional and then start working on the server meshing in the back ground MSCGA(make star citizen great again)

[@JundraGaming]

Watching this podcast and something was said that made my head tilt. Is it true that the ARGO RAFT is unable to pirate? Could you address this and how is that possible?

[@SpaceTomatoToo]

Since the cargo is stored in bespoke boxes that can't be accessed, you can't just board the ship and tractor beam the cargo away.

[@JundraGaming]

@SpaceTomatoToo that's good to know... might be my way of hauling Quant to market. Thank you for answering my question.

[@benhill8454]

I think with Starfield, we might start to see SC hemorrhaging players.

[@johnmazzone]

I'm at the Praetorian level and getting ready to sell my ships if CIG get going by 4.0.

[@FEVB]

WDYM "get going"

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Good for you Have a medal 🥇

[@StarCitizenSpeakeasy]

Yeah I'm calling it quits with 3.19. Doors won't open, buttons don't work. Server lag makes playing impossible for me.

[@FoxVelox222]

Believe the A2 cluster bombs are s3 according to the info pamphlet deal. The a1 uses s5 which are unique to it.

[@Cozzyhane]

I haven't touch or follow the game since the start of 2023. I have been enjoying other games.

[@gamerboicentral5469]

Lol the A2 may not have a direct mission loop but there are plenty of uses, for one the new public enemy missions and the platforms when they come back plus u can take out turrets at bunkers and there's ghost hallow now. There's plenty of uses

[@john.flick.c4512]

I think they are holding back a lot that’s the hope right ? I mean it’s weirdly up in the air and at the end of the day in CIGs case bad news is good news make it honest

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

False Assumption Fallacy

[@john.flick.c4512]

@@Uncanny_Mountain I’m 1000% coping and they keep saying they are holding back stuff so I hope it’s one of the major features I guess

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@john.flick.c4512 tbh I don't understand what you're talking about, (I thought you were being sarcastic) what are they holding back? Also it's not cope, 42 is DONE, Meshing is DONE, we know they have a mountain of features to port from 42 and we know most of the stuff remaining is all but done too. They've gone quiet because A: big reveal at CC B: even they don't know what is going to finish when and make it into what patch, there's never been more moving parts, but it seems they're doing their best to get us to Beta by year's end, or early next year

[@eartheater3956]

​@@Uncanny_Mountain how are you going to state to anyone "false assumption fallacy" after that comment. I thought you were a white knight after seeing your comments over the past year or so. Now I'm just wondering if you're a troll. I don't have any ill will towards you either way, it's good fun banter. I just wonder if you're insane or just taking the piss.

[@eartheater3956]

​@@Uncanny_Mountain❤

[@mactan_sc]

server meshing at least another year away as usual

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Actually it's done Shows what a cult you've become doesn't it

[@_Kaurus]

I honestly don't think that Robert's is a competent leader to have teams that are competent enough to release functional content. Let's get real. There is a PTU and a Production public realm. Everything that is pushed to public realm is for all tense and purposes, a "production" release. Love how "elevator" is on the list of releases for 2023. What a joke; Where is pyro? Aside from there where is this and that, where is the respect from CIG to the community? I've a lot of gaming experience so my expectations around Promises versus Deliverables is pretty laxed, though I don't accept being straight up abused and lied to by developers.

[@wanzhaf932]

we support the pledge....but we dont see the outcome...

[@derjadebaum9159]

Thanks for this video. Astro said 10 years is far-fetcehd, but as many peoplein the chat said "4.0 is just the highway to 5.0" We are at tier 0 for so many features + so many features are still not in the game, it is so obvious 4.0 is the final tech-demo branch to finally begin to start developing the actual game. It is so important for them becuase it is the final version to cash out a lot of money. They couldn't care less what happens afterwards. They then have "the proof of concept" what definitely makes people belief they can do it.... they just need money for it to make it happen ;) The still left optimism in this round is scary cuz it makes you look like you are supporting such marketing tactics. Will laugh my ass of at citizencon peace out. soon™

[@hollywoodguy70]

Tech demo was pre-3.0 . Post-3.0 has been a full demo that's just lacking most of the profession gameplay loops/progression

[@derjadebaum9159]

@@hollywoodguy70 Just in case you haven't heard they just BEGAN coding for 4.0 THIS year. xD lmfao In the end we all could have just waited for the big companies/engines to get to that point. Only difference is a bunch of people made bank on our backs

[@MikePhilbin1966]

S42 1, 2, 3 sigh... it's really not looking good for 4.0 any time soon.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Well you've been wrong about literally everything so not putting much stock in your unsupported claims

[@teemos2732]

If I was a CIG Community Team member and I watched this, my main takeaways would be that 1) We badly need much more content, 2) Communication must be drastically improved. CIG, please please hear this. We know development is not easy but this has just become ridiculous and damaging.

[@MersageSW]

Around 1:30:00 > Not sharing someone's spiritual beliefs is understandable, however making someone's beliefs a punchline in a joke because you don't share them is very hateful and disrespectful.

[@eartheater3956]

Do you know what an analogy is? Who was being hateful or disrespectful and how?

[@ryanmitchell4044]

It’s not hateful unless it comes from a place of hatred. It might be disrespectful, but hateful? Not true.

[@Rgraceful1]

GTA 6 Started planning in 2012 then went into full development in around 2015 and has no release date as of yet just like Star Citizen . Difference is GTA had already made 5 games so they have a ton of assets already and a highly experienced Dev team . Cig on the other hand started with 12 employees and a blank slate . Another difference is GTA 6 is one game CIG is working on two and also CIG pretty much wrote /rewrote their own engine . Budget as per online guesses for GTA 6 is between 1 and 2 BILLION dollars . CIG has $690 million so far for two games . I really can't see why so many say GTA 6 is on track and at the same time say CR and CIG are mismanaging SC . On September 17, 2013, Rockstar Games released GTA V.

[@EiriUesugiKun]

Huffing too much copium there buddy. :D

[@Rgraceful1]

@@EiriUesugiKun Your feelings are wonderful but they don't refute the facts .

[@Libertas_P77]

Keep making excuses. Rockstar also haven’t taken $600m in pledges from their community in that time without delivering a working game. GTA5 continues to be successful to this day, and should we not mention they delivered Red Dead Redemption 2 during this period, so unlike CIG they delivered another (incredible) game as their next, and only now are turning full attention to GTA6? Talk about a CIG fanboy unable to critically think.

[@SETHthegodofchaos]

Then why were they promising a AAA experience even in 2012? This makes no sense...

[@Rgraceful1]

@@Libertas_P77 Fact : Rock Star had 1000 employees in 2013 and now have 2000 . CIG had 58 in 2013 , 464 in 2017 , and now 1100 . As you say they RS had a lot of money from being successful all those years . We all knew the plan for funding SC in advance . As far as a great game we will see how good SQ 42 will be . I've invested a lot (as many others have ) because CR's past tract record . If you don't believe , don't put any money in or just $45 for two games if you were early enough .Your money ,your call .

[@sly567]

Shows like this exhibits why game studios don’t share their development progress. Love the comment saying this was a balanced show. All I see is nothing but negativity dominating the conversation from Salty and Morph and real expectations from Astro and Tree. If a game is causing you to stress out this much, you need go and touch the grass. It’s just a game…

[@FEVB]

Everyone except for tree was pessimistic to realistic. Tree is the only one huffing the hopium

[@tree0311]

@@FEVB I live in a world of citations and where accurate information is king, so that's just how my brain works. Like I said, I set my expectations based on what was said, and if that that doesn't prove out, it's on CIG, not me, so I don't get upset about it. That's what I critique CIG on. Got way more important IRL things to worry about to let game development make me upset beyond bad marketing decisions.

[@sly567]

@@FEVB I don't think he was huffing, at the end of each comment Tree made, he said it was speculation, what might happen and the reaction from Morph and Salty reflected that by playing the negativity card. The best quote of the show was. "People hear only what they want to hear".

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

​@@FEVB notice how you're pretending everyone has to agree with your Cult ideology Like in a Cult 😂

[@FEVB]

@@Uncanny_Mountain replying to the wrong person

[@piggdsbest333]

Imagine still thinking this game is not a scam.

[@FEVB]

Imagine being a pepega

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

Imagine going to SC videos to play Princess

[@FEVB]

@@Uncanny_Mountain 🤣🤣🤣

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@FEVB yes, just like that

[@FEVB]

@@Uncanny_Mountain Go back to your 67 kids and $500 jpgs

[@redicanprime1181]

No. SalteMike is just a toxic emotional vampire. He just sucks the life out of the room. Every single little thing done in this game is surrounded by tech being invented like server meshing. That's why it doesn't run good right now. Guess what? No game can do what this game does.

[@eartheater3956]

You seem pretty emotional about this. It might not be bad if someone drained a little bit of it.

[@redicanprime1181]

@@eartheater3956 nooooooooo nooooooo

[@jamesgale9722]

Been over 10 years developing tech. Feature creep at its worst. There is zero Project Management. Very concerning now revenue is dropping....

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

@@jamesgale9722 False assumption fallacy, everything you just memed is wrong *2012 staff: 10* Kickstarter launched October 18 (6 weeks left in the year) goal is $500k SC is a single single player game with no procedural planets and no physicalised ships. 42 is a game MODE where you can fight the Vanduul with friends in Multiplayer (not MMO). 100 systems makes it very similar to Starfield, basically pitches the same mechanics. *2013 staff: 75* June: Kickstarter passes $15 million Stretch goals are later added as funding explodes. Preproduction begins. *2014 staff: 150* *Citizencon: PU demonstration* Kickstarter ends, funding passes $40 million NMS releases featuring the first procedural planets in a massive galaxy. SC also sees the potential for using Procedural Planets, something that was not considered possible until now. *2015 staff: 220* *$100 million* *ACTIVE DEVELOPMENT BEGINS* *Citizencon: Squadron 42 CIG _Invents_ Object Container Streaming, which makes it possible to build a scale model of a Solar System with a high degree of fidelity, demanding physicalised ships and all the procedural tech needed for buildings, NPCs, fauna, and flora. This changes the Crytek /Lumberyard engine into the Star Engine. A vote is taken for an expanded scope: 42 becomes it's own single player game (what was intitally pitched as Star Citizen) Star Citizen becomes an MMO Patch 1.0 launches in March December 12 SC 2.0 goes live, Olisar, Yela asteroid belt, EVA, Quantum travel, FPS combat, Mobiglass, Party system, Comm system, Retaliator, Warlock, Constellation Andromeda August: 1.2 Arcorp, Area 18 *2016 staff: 360* First "real" Citizencon: tech demo features Sandworm, Dune issues Cease and desist 2.2 : March. Sabre released, 24 player cap Squadron 42 is launched as its own game marking the commercial launch of SC the MMO and 42 the single player campaign. as do the first ships like the Freelancer, Constellation, Aurora, etc Chris floats idea of releasing elements of 42 to backers for testing, many claim this to be a release date, it was not. Pirate Swarm, Star Marine, Caterpillar, Hornet, Gladius, Titan, Vanguard, Herald Grim Hex added *2017 staff: 460* *$150 million* *Citizencon: tech demo for Hurston* Progress is painfully slow as work begins on the new engine, an adaption of Lumberyard. This content drought ends with 3.0 launching in October, 4 years after Kickstarter launched, 2 years into active development 3.0 brings first Planets, Moons, Outposts, Derelicts, player cap increases to 65 Also Dragonfly, Rover, Cutlass Black, Prospector, Raven, Ship rental and purchase *2018: staff: 500* *$200 million raised* *Citizencon attempts to charge for livestream, Lorville walk through* *Land claims sales* Plus $46 million private investment Crytek files lawsuit SC begins to gain popularity as the game starts to grow. SDF shields and flight mechanic improvements Quantum dampening and emp charges added, Reclaimer 3.3: VoIP, Foip, Asteroid mining, Network entity streaming, Object Container streaming Phoenix, Valkyrie, Cyclone, Hammerhead *2019 staff: 600* *Fourth Citizencon: new planet tech V4, Satellite mission, Prisons, Pyro cliffhanger* 3.6 Final moons added, Gasclouds, 890, Ballista, Archimedes. Chris suggests 42 should enter Beta testing and Pyro by end of 2020 3.7 Microtech, storms, Cutlass Red, Valkyrie *2020 staff: 700* *$300 million* *COVID hits* *Citizencon cancelled* Crytek lawsuit withdrawn 3.10: Klescher Prison, Crusader, Medical, Docking, SDF shields, C2, Cutlass Blue, Prowler, Talon, Bengal and Javelin first appear at Fleetweek, Reputation, Bartender AI, Cargo Decks *2021 staff: 750* *Digital Citizencon Pyro Demo* 3.15 Mercury Starunner, 400i, Expo halls, Jumptown 2.0, First demo of Pyro, Docking, Ground vehicles, Hand tractor, Orison platforms, Bombs, Levski removed. *2022 staff: 800* *$400 million* *Digital Citizencon: Pyro Planet tech* Roadmap removed 3.17; Reputation, Refineries, Player cap 100+ Orison platforms, Xenothreat, C2, Hull A, Settlements, NPC pilots, Refueling, Looting, Tonk, Ballista, Pyro Demo, *Icache fails setting server meshing back one year.* *2023 staff: 840* *$500 million* *Citizencon returns* More players have joined since Covid than all the years before SC averages 70k+ players a day PES is implemented 3.19: Salvage 1.0, Cargo refractor, Rivers, Racing, Settlements, Ghist Hollow, Jumptown 2.0, Attack on Orison, Arena Commander rework, Hull C 42 is finished, moves to polishing Gen 12 formated to Vulkan, DLSS, Global illumination and Ray tracing Linux support, testing 200 player cap *2024 staff: 1100* (?) Squadron 42 launches in October: 11 years after the Kickstarter, and 9 years of active development, Cyberpunk, Rust, Starfield, and RDR2 also took about this long. There will be a break between episodes 1 and 2 of Squadron 42. All staff now focus on PU, porting over all the features finalised and polished for 42 including 3 more systems, making a total of 6. Odin, Bremer, Vega, Stanton, Pyro, Nyx. Their main focus now is Procedural Bunkers, Roads, Bounty hunting, Engineering, Exploration, and E warfare. Almost everything else is already done and waiting for when the game is optimised enough to be able to handle all the moving parts, that takes time. Habs will come once all the above is finished.

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

But that's what you get when you watch Salty Ballbag

[@user-hz6zi6qu9c]

Mt guess is they will make pes a product they will sell so they don't go bankrupt, the pes most likely won't be stable and be removed. Were just testing pes for cig.

[@noideas439]

Then why make a whole ass game around it and not sell it to one of the other massive studios

[@Uncanny_Mountain]

"My guess" In other words a story you invented and cannot prove 😂

[@eartheater3956]

Maybe I'm just completely naive, and don't completely understand PES, but I play games that have The same kind of mechanic already? One example is scum. It's an online multiplayer game. There is crafting (You can cut up your shirt to make rags put a tree to make rope out of the bark, combine them to make an improvised backpack), PVP, vehicles and all the rest. If you die your gear drops. If the server crashes, which rarely happens, your stuff is still there. If you leave something somewhere, someone can come pick it up. This is a genuine question. What is the difference?