What is Grace Communion International?

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Күн бұрын

Formerly the Worldwide Church of God, GCI has experienced one of the largest changes in teaching of any Christian Denomination. In this video we examine their beliefs today.
00:00 Change in Beliefs
00:30 History of Grace Communion International
02:58 Core Teachings
03:12 God Family
03:45 Sacraments
04:23 Scripture
05:05 Creation & Evolution
06:41 Sin & Salvation
07:06 Predestination & Calvinism
07:43 Pentecostalism & Tongues, Word of Faith
08:35 Eschatology
09:07 Hell, Eternal Punishment, & Conditional Immortality
10:22 British Israelism
11:01 Marriage, Sexuality & Divorce
12:25 Abortion
12:55 Worship Style
13:37 Alcohol, Tithing
14:13 Sabbath
14:56 Festivals
15:32 Holidays
15:51 Food Laws
16:04 Day Christ Died, War, Voting
16:27 Church Government
17:06 Women in Ministry
17:19 Affiliations & Statistics

Пікірлер: 374

@krazykris9396 Жыл бұрын

It's amazing how much a denomination can change over time.

@iamdigory Жыл бұрын

This might be the most drastic/fastest change I've ever heard of.

@catholic4sure976 Жыл бұрын

@@iamdigory It's all about learning to be honest, rather than defending the indefensible.

@Mrz-sb1hw 5 ай бұрын

Coming from a non religious family l have to admit that bizarre events have happened the Bible appears to contradict itself and in the past l was in serious trouble and asked God for protection and he did protect me. I'm just baffled by past events.

@silver-en7kl 3 ай бұрын

This true church of God changed because when Mr. Armstrong died they rebelled against God and Satan became their father. These baptized ex members are screwed unless they turn to God and repent.

@adamkotter6174 Жыл бұрын

I really appreciate their willingness to recognize that different interpretations of the same passage of scripture are possible by equally faithful and educated believers. What matters most is having your heart and your faith in the right place.

@koppite9600 Жыл бұрын

What matters is being Catholic. After you've admitted that then come back to the Church people left when they looked for a perfect church

@joogabah 11 ай бұрын

The changes were intolerant and authoritarian. This was a crime committed against tens of thousands who did not want to switch to evangelical protestantism from the church they built for decades. It was a hostile takeover by an imperialistic religious tradition. The changes should not be celebrated. If you believe differently, don't go infiltrating other churches and forcing them to change. Just go to a church that supports what you believe. What happened to the WCG was a travesty to anyone who values freedom of religion. There were countless extant churches that taught the "new teachings" that the new leadership and members who no longer believed could have gone to. The arrogance of hijakcing a church that doesn't believe that and forcing everyone to change or leave is unchristian and ugly by any denomination's standards.

@tucktuckthetucker 11 ай бұрын

@@koppite9600people would probably come back if catholicism changed their errors and revert back to the 1st century church instead of being a puppet religion to the roman empire

@koppite9600 11 ай бұрын

@@tucktuckthetucker Jesus said the Church would persevere through the ages, how do you then say she has errors?

@tucktuckthetucker 11 ай бұрын

@@koppite9600 because again the catholic church split from the first century church with constantine. There is no scriptural evidence of popes and cardinals. Even if the scripture about peter being the rock is true then why wouldnt the bible say anything about popes and how to get a successor after peter. The bible does clearly say about choosing bishops and deacons. Fun fact until proabably the end of the dark ages the roman emperors were the main ones who chose the pope.

@Cdgaming4U Жыл бұрын

I know it would be a little different from your regular videos, but I'd love to see a dedicated video on the topic of foot washing. It was a practice I was personally unaware of prior to discovering your channel, and it seems to pop up in interesting places as the sort of "optional" third ordinance in every group that recognizes it. It would be very helpful to have a concise summary of its history as a sacrament and different groups' views on it.

@polycarpsmith1419 Жыл бұрын

*FOOT WASHING Another SDA and HEAtradition and doctrine of men goes down the drain* ONLY 1 PERSON WASHED FEET THE NIGHT OF THE PASSOVER. THE APOSTLES DID *NOT* WASH FEET! John 13 Now before the feast of the passover, when Jesus knew that his hour was come that he should depart out of this world unto the Father, having loved his own which were in the world, he loved them unto the end. 2 And supper being ended, the devil having now put into the *heart of Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, to betray him;* 3 Jesus knowing that the Father had given all things into his hands, and that he was come from God, and went to God; 4 *He riseth from supper,* and laid aside *his* garments; *and took a towel, and girded himself.* 5 After that he poureth water into a bason, and began to wash the disciples' feet, and to wipe them with the towel wherewith he was girded. *(it doesn't say the Apostles washed anyone's feet! Only Christ washed the feet of the disciples, NONE of the Apostles girded himself and washed feet.)* No one washed Christ's feet at al that night. Christ commanded them to wash the feet of their disciples, like He washed the feet of *his disciples" Adventist has totally misunderstood the entire act. From 6 Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? 7 Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. 8 Peter saith unto him, Thou shalt never wash my feet. Jesus answered him, If I wash thee not, thou hast no part with me. 9 Simon Peter saith unto him, Lord, not my feet only, but also my hands and my head. 10 Jesus saith to him, He that is washed needeth not save to wash his feet, but is clean every whit: and ye are clean, but not all. 11 For he knew who should betray him; therefore said he, Ye are not all clean. 12 So after he had washed their feet, and had taken his garments, and was set down again, he said unto them, Know ye what I have done to you? 13 *Ye call me Master and Lord: and ye say well; for so I am. 14 If I then, your Lord and Master, have washed your feet; ye also ought to wash one another's feet. 15 For I have given you an example, that ye should do as I have done to you. 16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. 17 If ye know these things, happy are ye if ye do them. *The entire point being made here, is that the MINISTERS should wash the feet of their disciples* not that 100's or thousands should get out a bucket and wash one each other's feet!* And, certainly NOT that the disciples were to was the feet of the MINISTER! The SDA can't get the simplest thing correct! The point of Christ story is that Christ, who is Lord and Master washed the feet of the disciples. So, should those who are ministers, pastors, priests, BISHOPS AND POPE should wash the feet of their followers. It wasn't that thousands of buckets of water should be used to have everyone wash feet. It was that the LEADERS should was feet, NOT THE DISCIPLES.

@lierox9 Жыл бұрын

Good idea, one vote from me too! Just done a sermon on the foot washing passage and I can see why people might think it's something to implement (although I do disagree)

@jnkelley42 Жыл бұрын

As an Episcopal church our priest washes feet on the Thursday of Holy Week. It is deeply moving.

@astutik8909 Жыл бұрын

We keep the footwashing ordinance. The traditions that were handed down were, The new passover, which included foot washing, Baptism. The Sabbath wasnt new of course, and was still kept by the early Christians.

@rrsafety Жыл бұрын

@@jnkelley42 Same with us Catholics, a Holy Thursday ritual.

@reginahay5211 Жыл бұрын

Back in the 60s I remember being very impressed by some of the literature put out by Armstrong. But being a teenager I didn’t fully read or understand or subscribe to it snd certainly didn’t understand there was controversy. But as I hear your explanation of their current beliefs I find myself identifying with a kind of evolution in my spiritual walk. As I get older I appreciate so much that I didn’t know in my younger years.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.

@Roufus55 Жыл бұрын

I came out of being heavily influenced by these teachings. It's heartening that others have been on the same journey, and are humble enough to admit it openly.

@AshTreeConsecrated Жыл бұрын

My mother had me baptized Catholic but left the Church to join World Wide Church of God when I was about a year old. Raised me in it until I was 13 years old. There were kind hearted, genuine people there, and she did what she thought was right, but it was not spiritually nourishing at best and traumatic at worst (please don't deny small children food and water all day). I don't dwell on it but I wish I was raised in the Church.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@morrigan0103 Жыл бұрын

Did you convert to Catholicism?

@AshTreeConsecrated Жыл бұрын

@@morrigan0103 I don't know that I need to convert, since I was baptized. However, I have not asked a Catholic priest. I'm currently attending an Anglican church and was informed by the priest there that I am Christian through baptism.

@St0rmcrash Жыл бұрын

@@AshTreeConsecrated Since you were baptized you're already Catholic, so you wouldn't do the usual RCIA but there are similar programs for adults who never received the sacraments of communion and confirmation. If you find a Catholic parish you want to join just speak with the priest about those programs. Like RCIA they tend to try and confirm/complete at the Easter vigil. FWIW the Catholic church also recognizes baptisms done by other denominations as having made you christian

@AshTreeConsecrated Жыл бұрын

@@St0rmcrash Thank you so much for the information, it's very edifying. I hope to return home one day if God wills it. 🙏

@ImCarolB Жыл бұрын

Well, this is encouraging that this cult recognized its vast number of errors and has begun following God in truth.

@NikoFinn Жыл бұрын

Amen

@wendyleeconnelly2939 Жыл бұрын

They just dropped everything they ever believed in, and real believers left to form other split off groups that still believe the same Armstrong teachings.

@copeandseethe9279 Жыл бұрын

they still hold to countless errors

@ImCarolB Жыл бұрын

@@copeandseethe9279 May God guide them!

@peggystoutemorin4529 Жыл бұрын

@@electrical_cord It is encouraging to see this. Usually they double down on their nonsense.

@katielouise3924 11 ай бұрын

Great video! I grew up in the WCG & attended their Ambassador College for a few semesters - until I found out it was unaccredited. Anyway, I stopped attending that church as a teen, but the splintering had my family in turmoil & in separate offshoots. I do feel the WCG focused too much on prophecy. I am impressed with the GCI website! They have many articles that explain their beliefs very thoroughly.

@mer9388 Жыл бұрын

Been there for 40 years and suffered a long time on the road to salvation. Now I live by the following - grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone. Jesus is my Lord and savior.

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

Is GCI a good church?

@mer9388 5 ай бұрын

Like most churches they get things right and sometimes wrong but they follow the bible as well as they can. It's a good church. @@jakedubin8219

@toranshaw4029 Жыл бұрын

It's rather interesting how a denomination can do a complete 180 on their belief structure!

@eltonron1558 Жыл бұрын

It's not really that interesting, considering the story of the Worldwide Church of God. The founder, who's doctrines were sound and valid, died in 1986. The back stabbing replacement immediately started moving doctrine to mainstream, as being offended that the church was reviled as a cult. The cult accusations were based on his opinions expressed in booklets and pamphlets published by the church. I thought the founder was the cult core, but never caught him in a lie, and was converted from casual Sunday Christian to fundamentalist scripture the authority Christian.

@drewrote Жыл бұрын

When God moves, it is always interesting and amazing

@eltonron1558 Жыл бұрын

@drewrote More interesting and amazing how Satan moved on the church long before our generations, with conclusions, arrived at, and widely accepted, which are not easily dislodged. The doctrine of the trinity, Sunday keeping, the gospel being about Christ, instead of according to Christ. Interesting and amazing.

@tonywiggins8073 2 ай бұрын

@@drewroteGod’s church! That was doing what God asks does a 180 - Nah, that wasn’t God! That was Satan - The Deceiver, the author of lies and Murderer from the beginning! Infiltrated his way and and deceived “THE” church! Scriptures says there’ll be a great falling away from God’s truth! That’s exactly what happened! 👍

@drewrote 2 ай бұрын

@@eltonron1558 You are right Jesus and HIs apostles have been teaching about the persons of God, the Gospel about Jesus as God (according to Jesus), Jesus as the Sabbath from the very beginning until Satan was able to deceived members and divided the Church.

@eddieboyky Жыл бұрын

Another really good and interesting video. You've been on a roll lately. Good job.

@andrewberkin5505 Жыл бұрын

I lived through this change from WCG to GCI. And it wasn't easy and I'm still impacted by the effects today

@polycarpsmith1419 Жыл бұрын

In the early 1970's I joined the WCG as a former Catholic. Within 5-6 years I learned that something was dreadfully wrong. HWA began declaring himself to be "God's Apostle for the end time" . As well, I had learned the habits of the WCG, in NOT actually keeping the Sabbath but pretending I did. We would often go out to eat after the Sabbath services where we would have others "serve" us who were laboring on the Sabbath to serve us, strictly forbidden by the 4th commandment. Then there was all the other things were supposed to do but didn't. It was all for show. The weight of hypocrisy starts to either harden your heart, or you become deeply disturbed in your conscience of all the façade until you can't take it anymore. All the tithes (2 or 3 of them) we were supposed to keep were financially draining to the point it became hopeless. Then comes the scripture which verifies all the suspicions that these men and their ministers and hustlers. It is one thing to sell broken used cars for a living as bad people will do, but entirely another to stoop so low as to abuse sacred scripture for one's own selfish ambitions. Once the person's eyes are open, they cannot bear the deception and they leave, or as in my case, I was "disfellowshipped" for being rebellious and not adhering to the Armstrong heretical theology. As soon as I openly questioned the ministry, they did to me, what they did to so many, *and like the Pharisees did to Christ and the Apostles, kicked me out from their synagogue* . Lesson learned. HWA in order to justify and strengthen his hold on the members of the WCG during the split between HWA and GTA, *Herbert became desperate and borrowed Catholic theology and taught that Peter was the "Chief Apostle" , so that no one could be greater than HWA* As a former Catholic, I become very interested in the study of the subject. In those days scholarly books were not easy to come by, so I saved to purchase many of the them. The most enlightening were the collection of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One could not read nearly chapter of them without coming across the condemnation of the Judaizers as is the case of the New Testament. And, most of all, the authority of the Church presented and preserved by the unity of the "Catholic Church" , the immortality of the soul, the worship of Christ regularly on the first day of the week and the Eucharist. This is just a small sampling: The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied. The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote "For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and nall the righteous)* Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things: 1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and 2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!*

@drewrote Жыл бұрын

I believe Jesus established a Catholic Church. The present-day Roman catholic church however doesn't resemble the Church Jesus established.

@brettweier9504 Жыл бұрын

Fascinating how quickly and drastically these guys changed their doctrine. Thanks for the video, Joshua!

@drewrote Жыл бұрын

Without God's grace and leading, the changes wouldn't happen. God's grace all the way.

@ChrisH-1952 Жыл бұрын

Like others, I came across the original sect in the 60s when here in the UK the spent heavily on programming on off-shore pop music radio stations and gave out very well produced books alongside their 'Plain Truth' magazine. At that time Garner Ted Armstrong (Herbert W's son) was the broadcaster. Fortunately, I was secure in my own evangelical faith and treated the material with curiosity, rather than acceptance. It is so good to hear this explanation of the transformation into a fellowship of mainstream beliefs. Thank you.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@wendyreis1233 Жыл бұрын

I left WCG in 1996. This is the best, most concise explanation of the doctrines I have ever heard, and I am more on the same page with you than I thought.

@jakedubin8219 9 ай бұрын

is WCG bad?

@rosajimenez7777 8 ай бұрын

Did you go to another COG group?

@joshuamatkin8306 Жыл бұрын

I really appreciate these videos as they are very informative

@brendaboykin3281 Жыл бұрын

Thank you,Joshua🌹🌹🌹🌹

@regionprince Жыл бұрын

I grew up in WCG. I used hear a lot about it being a cult and I used to believe that too. Until I met and become friends with someone who actually grew up in a cult and realized what a cult actually is. I think the idea of it being a cult is an unfair assessment and attempt at character assassination by other competitor evangelical denominations, rather than critiquing its doctrine. If it is a cult, then so is Roman Catholicism. The only "restrictions" I "suffered" was sabbath (not getting to socialize on Saturday) and otherwise keeping closer friendships with the church community rather than the wider society. Both of which are benign, and in the latter case somewhat beneficial.

@DeFyYing Жыл бұрын

A video on the Nordic and Baltic Lutheran state churches would be cool!

@jeffking4176 Жыл бұрын

Surprising, yes, but totally true. I’ve been attending one for several years. A total flip. And God has honored them. ✝️🙏🙂

@JasonGabler Жыл бұрын

GCI is sounding more theologically sane than most of the rest of US evangelicalism. That note about predestination sounds downright Barthian.

@derickrae Жыл бұрын

I had a friend in high school whose family were a part of this cult. My friend was blown away when confronted about the bad doctrine. She found Jesus in the 1990s. This is such an encouraging testimony. It gives me encouragement to pray for other pseudo Christian groups. I have friends who are LDS and JW.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

Is GCI a good church?

@derickrae 5 ай бұрын

@@jakedubin8219They have officially repented of their pseudo-Christian doctrine. But I do not know anything beyond this. I do not know where they stand on secondary issues or what their services look like.

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

@@derickrae what denomination would you reccomend?

@derickrae 5 ай бұрын

I am a Confessional Lutheran. Before that, I was in a good solid Baptist Church. I am kind of a denominational mutt. I was raised non-denominational Charismatic. My Paternal grandparents were Methodist. My Maternal grandparents were Church of Christ. My advice is to avoid Megachurches & Celebrity pastors. I have seen good churches in all of these denominations & bad churches in each of these denominations. It's a challenge to find a conservative church that still avoids fundamentalism. @@jakedubin8219

@drewrote Жыл бұрын

Born to WCG in the 80's. Experienced the changes as a teenager. Serving God through this denomination as an adult.

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

Is GCI a good church?

@gailwatson4927 Жыл бұрын

My grandparents liked Armstrong and his teachings.

@zekdom Жыл бұрын

I grew up in UCG, a branch of Armstrong’s Worldwide. Then you have LCG, another branch of Armstrong’s Worldwide. As I was growing up, there was division within UCG - resulting in CoGWA, making that three Armstrong branches that I’m aware of. (I remember my grandmother recalling and lamenting the original split that led to Grace Communion International.) Last I checked, these branches are thriving. You may even know some of the people without realizing their background. Typically, they don’t announce the specifics of their faith, except when questioned about taking time off work for the feast and holy days, or as to why they don’t celebrate Christmas. And when they do give an answer, people usually get bored and change the subject. (I know from experience as well.) Suffice it to say, Grace Communion International is just one group. It’s not that Armstrong’s denomination died upon the original split; it just splintered into even more groups.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@@lealex1165 the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.

@catholic4sure976 Жыл бұрын

In the early 1970's I joined the WCG as a former Catholic. Within 5-6 years I learned that something was dreadfully wrong. HWA began declaring himself to be "God's Apostle for the end time" . As well, I had learned the habits of the WCG, in NOT actually keeping the Sabbath but pretending I did. We would often go out to eat after the Sabbath services where we would have others "serve" us who were laboring on the Sabbath to serve us, strictly forbidden by the 4th commandment. Then there was all the other things were supposed to do but didn't. It was all for show. The weight of hypocrisy starts to either harden your heart, or you become deeply disturbed in your conscience of all the façade until you can't take it anymore. All the tithes (2 or 3 of them) we were supposed to keep were financially draining to the point it became hopeless. Then comes the scripture which verifies all the suspicions that these men and their ministers and hustlers. It is one thing to sell broken used cars for a living as bad people will do, but entirely another to stoop so low as to abuse sacred scripture for one's own selfish ambitions. Once the person's eyes are open, they cannot bear the deception and they leave, or as in my case, I was "disfellowshipped" for being rebellious and not adhering to the Armstrong heretical theology. As soon as I openly questioned the ministry, they did to me, what they did to so many, *and like the Pharisees did to Christ and the Apostles, kicked me out from their synagogue* . Lesson learned. HWA in order to justify and strengthen his hold on the members of the WCG during the split between HWA and GTA, *Herbert became desperate and borrowed Catholic theology and taught that Peter was the "Chief Apostle" , so that no one could be greater than HWA* As a former Catholic, I become very interested in the study of the subject. In those days scholarly books were not easy to come by, so I saved to purchase many of the them. The most enlightening were the collection of the Ante-Nicene Church Fathers. One could not read nearly chapter of them without coming across the condemnation of the Judaizers as is the case of the New Testament. And, most of all, the authority of the Church presented and preserved by the unity of the "Catholic Church" , the immortality of the soul, the worship of Christ regularly on the first day of the week and the Eucharist. This is just a small sampling: The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied. The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and all the righteous)* Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things: 1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and 2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!* >

@zekdom Жыл бұрын

@@catholic4sure976 Did you go back to being Catholic or some other denomination?

@catholic4sure976 Жыл бұрын

@@zekdom I returned to the Catholic Church after showing how incredibly wrong were the Adventist's, the Armstrong's and the Protestants. Notice the quote below from 117AD. The *CHURCH* of God which sojourns at *Smyrna* (Rev. 2) , to the *CHURCH* of God sojourning in Philomelium, and to ALL the congregations of *the Holy and CATHOLIC CHURCH* in every place: Mercy, peace, and love from God the Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, be multiplied. The Martyrdom of Polycarp (AD 117): Here's a direct quote: For, [Polycarp] having through patience overcome the unjust governor, and thus acquired the crown of immortality, *he NOW, with the apostles and all the righteous [in heaven], rejoicingly glorifies God, even the Father, and blesses our Lord Jesus Christ, the Saviour of our souls, the Governor of our bodies, and *the Shepherd of the *CATHOLIC CHURCH throughout the world* .[28] *(The placing of Polycarp's immortal soul in heaven after his martyrdom is exactly what we find in Revelation 18:20 with the Apostles and nall the righteous)* Notice how the author, says *Christ is the Shepherd of the Catholic Church THROUGHOUT THE WHOLE WORLD" In other words, the entire Christian world in 117 AD understood 2 things: 1.That Christ was the Shepherd of the Catholic Church and 2.The doctrine of the immortality of the soul and teaching of the righteous souls went to heaven after the death of the body was taught by Christ and the Church *throughout the whole world!* Another Adventist heresy on soul sleep and annihilationism bites the dust. If Mary named Yahshua (Jesus), the *proper* name: *"Rock"* , Christ's name would have been *"Cephas"* (John 1:42, 1Cor. 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, Gal. 2:9) in the Aramaic and *"Petros"* in the Greek, and "Peter" in the Greek to English. There is only ONE way to Say the *proper* name ROCK and that is CEPHAS in the Aramaic and PETROS in the Greek. If Mary had named Christ "Rock" we would all be calling Christ *"Cephas or Peter"*

@PShawtx Жыл бұрын

UCG is not a branch of WCG. UCG was started by people who left WCG, that does not make them a branch of WCG.

@gazoontight Жыл бұрын

I remember Herbert W. Armstrong having a television show on Sunday mornings. I never watched it but once. I remember him naming a bunch of denominations and religious and asking what happened to truth. Apparently he was the only person ever to understand the truth!

@nathaniellowry3861 Жыл бұрын

Absolutely! He actually got the truth from what the scripture says.

@rms-vp6hf 7 ай бұрын

⁠@@nathaniellowry3861no Mr Armstrong made it up. He was a false teacher and “apostle”. The Word is clear about what an Apostle or Prophet (both of which he proclaimed he was over the years). He waffled on eschatology, “the beast”, the elect, works, race, and on and on and on. I was raised in it, was baptized in it, took all the old membership courses from when my parents joined in 1964. Nothing he “revealed” is scripturally or historically accurate. If you want to go back to the Radio Church of God days Mr Armstrong told us the eastern European nations were the Beast of the book Revelation and said “If Christ doesn’t return within the decade the Bible is a lie!!!” in the booming voice of his. Then it was “the European Union”, and if he were alive today he’d probably falsely claim it is Islam. I know you want to be a part of “the one true Church” and be a part of that Millennial ruling class he espoused, just as we all did, but we will NOT be “as God is”. There is only one God. There was none before and there will be none after.

@theologic_us Жыл бұрын

Who are these fantastic people! God is kind and full of patience towards us. Praise be to God!

@dougmoore5252 Жыл бұрын

It is a amazing that all of us churches work and pray separately, perhaps we should make more efforts to work together in at least some area of Outreach and service. Catholic here…😊

@mikewilliams6025 Жыл бұрын

These guys sound great! Amazing that they came out of insanity.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@MBP1918 Жыл бұрын

Interesting

@Bawhoppen Жыл бұрын

A video idea I'd love to see is comparing denominations which use non-standard canons. Whether its different inclusions in just some books, or whole new additions like the Mormons, or even more out-there groups, it would be interesting. I don't know much about it so maybe that's a difficult request.

@user-zc5hv3pd4p Жыл бұрын

A step in the right direction imo

@Austin8thGenTexan Жыл бұрын

Once I saw Herbert W. Armstrong's picture, I knew exactly what this was. From my neck of the woods in East Texas. Then his son took over, then another break-away. Ugh. Another classic personality-driven church business dynasty. "Lord, don't ever let me join a church named after a man...". 🦊

@specialteams28 Жыл бұрын

Churches named after men is troubling, just as churches, doctrines, or denominations founded by men (Luther, Calvin, Wesley, King Henry 8th, etc…)

@Austin8thGenTexan Жыл бұрын

@@specialteams28 Henry VIII shook up a church that had been in England for a long time before he (and Saint Augustine) came along. Other than episcopal oversight and iconoclasm, it is still the Church in England, and does not bear his name nor his particular beliefs.

@wendyleeconnelly2939 Жыл бұрын

@@specialteams28 They were all founded by mankind, whatever they may claim. Everything is a mere remnant of first century churches and all have evolved widely and wildly.

@rexjamerson9316 Жыл бұрын

If you would really like a completely honest and middle-of-the-road opinion about the beliefs and structure of the worldwide Church of God before 1986, I would be willing to share everything I know, which is quite a bit. I was a member of wcg for 22 years, attended ambassador college for 4 years and was a song leader and speaker in church. There is quite a bit of misinformation out there about wcg under Herbert Armstrong and I would be pleased to straighten some of these things out. For example: self-appointed "Cult Watchers" have claimed that HWA taught you could be saved by keeping the Commandments and The Seventh-Day Sabbath. That statement was totally misleading and incorrect. I heard Mr Armstrong preach in person close to 50 times and had dinner in his home. I believe I can give you an accurate picture of the Worldwide Church of God during those years.

@donwelsh6164 3 ай бұрын

I would like to know more information!

@darlavance7074 Жыл бұрын

I grew up in WWCG & I'm still a Sabbatarian with Messianic leanings. But I have very mixed thoughts about those old days & old ways. There was so much good & so much bad, all mixed together. It's not fair to completely hate on it nor it is fair to turn a blind eye to the bad.

@Robert_Sparkman_01 11 ай бұрын

Joshua, I wasn't aware you created this video. It is very good. I am a former member of Worldwide Church of God. I left Worldwide Church of God about five years after the church changes for unrelated reasons. I am now a Particular Baptist. Obviously I disagree with GCI's disdain for Calvinism/Reformed theology. I would also have issues with ordained women leadership. I wouldn't be comfortable with open theism and the possibility of universalism either. If I understand correctly, church leadership was mentored by Fuller Theological Seminary staff and that led to acceptance of some unorthodox positions. They hold a position called "Trinitarian Theology" related to the teachings of Thomas Torrance and Karl Barth. This theology involves more than simple acceptance of the Trinity (I am a Trinitarian) but somehow affects their view of possible universalism. Anyways, my suspicion is that their theology emerging from the church changes was misguided by association with Fuller Theological seminary staff. Fuller is well known for liberal theology.

@DoIoannToKnow Жыл бұрын

pray for the conversion of the romans and protestants to Christianity. Let you all walk in the light

@hellojam100 4 ай бұрын

in other videos you talk of schisms and how these were often imperceptible to the regular churchgoers. I can imagine what a shock this change was to the WWCOG when the new leader started these massive retractions of what made this church unique

@notoneofthesheep Ай бұрын

Yes, it was a HUGE change. The WWCG was very conservative. GCI however is very liberal. From one ditch into the other.😏

@garanceadrosehn9691 Жыл бұрын

For me this is one of the most interesting videos that you've done so far on your channel. Back in the 1980's I used to watch some of the programs and read some of the material from the Worldwide Church of God. I liked that they seemed very studious and serious about reading the bible and applying it to our daily lives - and yet they ended up with some doctrines which I just could not find any biblical basis for. I found this very frustrating! I stopped paying attention to them. It looks like they've moved far away from the doctrines which seemed extremely non-biblical to me.

@RichardDCook Жыл бұрын

With the disclaimer that I'm Catholic, I should say that I've had a co-worker for 20 years who was raised in the Worldwide Church of God and in many conversations over the years my impression is of a devout Christian, extremely well-versed in the Bible, who follows certain Jewish practices such as food restrictions and holy days. The main distinction I feel is that my church emphasises the Gospels and Paul, while hers emphasises the Old Testament and Revelation. To me the main oddity is their narrative about the Lost Tribes of Israel, which to me, as a person with an interest in historical linguistics, the Human Genome diversity project, and anthropology, appears to fly in the face of everything known about the dispersal of peoples.

@sird2333 7 ай бұрын

Now if only the Catholics would be so humble

@vacantmemes 11 күн бұрын

I was the one thousandeth like

@PShawtx Жыл бұрын

Most of the GCI congregations in the United States are house churches. 75% of the people who attended WCG when the changes happened left not 50%. Some who were there at the time said that Joseph Tkach senior was not appointed by Herbert Armstrong to succeed him before he died. This is a case where this channel needed to go beyond what GCI says about themselves. That is a weakness in this channel not investigating a church beyond what they say about themselves. Love this channel keep it going. Over all good channel. The above is from more than one person who was there at the time. One of them I know. Don't ask me for sources. Please investigate for yourself.

@Gretla 10 ай бұрын

@RonJohn63 Жыл бұрын

What (besides polity) distinguishes GCI from non-Calvinist Baptists?

@hrhqueene Жыл бұрын

My family was caught up in WCG & its cultish ways. So much suffering & confusion, so many bitter memories

@bendav Жыл бұрын

Unfortunately, I was also a victim of this cult. Many bitter memories....

@hrhqueene Жыл бұрын

@@bendav Let’s let the truth & love of Christ heal us

@SpotterVideo Жыл бұрын

What the modern Church needs is a New Covenant Revival (Heb. 9:10) in which members of various denominations are willing to re-examine everything they believe and see if it agrees with the Bible, instead of the traditions of men. We need to be like the Bereans. It will be a battle between our flesh and the Holy Spirit. It will not be easy. If you get mad and upset when someone challenges your man-made Bible doctrines, that is your flesh resisting the truth found in God's Word. Nobody can completely understand the Bible unless they understand the relationship between the Old Covenant given to Moses at Mount Sinai and the New Covenant fulfilled in blood at Calvary. What brings all local churches together into one Body under the blood of Christ? The answer is found below. New Covenant Whole Gospel: Let us now share the Old Testament Gospel found below with the whole world. On the road to Emmaus He said the Old Testament is about Him. He is the very Word of God in John 1:1, 14. Awaken Church to this truth. Jer 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: Jer 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by husband unto them, saith the LORD: Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. Is the most important genealogy in the Bible found in Matthew 1:1 (Gal. 3:16)? Is God's Son the ultimate fulfillment of Israel (John 1:49)? Why has the modern Church done a pitiful job of sharing the Gospel with modern Orthodox Jews? Why would someone tell them they are God's chosen people and then fail to share the Gospel with them? Who is the seed of the woman promised in Genesis 3:15? What did Paul say about Genesis 12:3 in Galatians 3:8? Who is the "son" in Psalm 2? Who is the "suffering servant" of Isaiah 53? Who would fulfill the New Covenant promised in Jeremiah 31:31-34? Who would fulfill the timeline of Daniel chapter 9 before the second temple was destroyed? Why have we not heard this simple Old Testament Gospel preached on Christian television in the United States on a regular basis? Once a person comes to understand the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, which is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and specifically applied to the Church in 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, and Hebrews 12:22-24, man-made Bible doctrines fall apart. Let us now learn to preach the whole Gospel until He comes back. The King of Israel is risen from the dead! (John 1:49, Acts 2:36) We are not come to Mount Sinai in Hebrews 12:18. We are come instead to the New Covenant church of Mount Zion and the blood in Hebrews 12:22-24. 1Jn 3:22 And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 1Jn 3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 1Jn 3:24 And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us. Watch the KZbin videos “The New Covenant” by David Wilkerson, or Bob George, and David H.J. Gay.

@jakedubin8219 9 ай бұрын

@@bendav was armstrong a false prophet?

@jakedubin8219 9 ай бұрын

@@hrhqueene was armstrong a false prophet?

@CanadianAnglican Күн бұрын

Have never heard of them before. Would be interesting to see if they are here in Canada. Haven’t seen any.

@frankmckinley1254 Жыл бұрын

Depending on what history one listens to Herbert W. was dis-fellowshipped or left COG7-day. He had some teaching correct but others were seriously wrong. I have heard many sects claim to be the "true church" like Roman Catholic, Church of Christ, or IFB-baptist. So I have an overall problem with any group making the one true church claim. He however was correct in observing The feast of Yah. His, and many Sunday keeping churches that have a concept of the great pastor, pope, or leader are all cultish. People need to understand that following a man is prone to serious error. This goes for Rabbinical Judaism too. We should only follow the Messiah, 1 Cor. 11:1.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@reuenerio 7 ай бұрын

Growing up in WCG, I'm glad we found Christ in GCI and continue to reflect his love to everyone.

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

Is GCI a good church?

@reuenerio 5 ай бұрын

@@jakedubin8219 How do you define a good church? For me attending in GCI, is all about Christ and sharing his love to everyone. :)

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

@@reuenerio would you recommend it? And is it better than the old WWCG?

@rilosvideos877 8 ай бұрын

I know them from their 'Wordwide Church of God' time ruled unter Herbert W. Armstrong and the period after. They sent me lots of their magazines but they hardly had any churches in Germany to meet with. Do they still keep the sabbath? The bible clearly speaks of the sabbath as the 7.th day that should be hold holy cause God rested on that day after creating the world.

@intergalactichumanempire9759 Жыл бұрын

Very strange to see a church admit that they were wrong for the first chunk of their existence. I couldn't imagine any other church doing that without collapsing to pieces.

@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Жыл бұрын

Jehovah's Wittnesses did something kind of similar. To begin with we elebrated Christmas and Easter in the normal calculation. We also used to use the crucifix. Taze Russel also had some weird ideas about the prophetic importance of the great pyramid of Giza, which I think was kind of a fad back then, though I don't know how widespread that was. Though those changes were nothing compared to what these Armstrongists did.

@intergalactichumanempire9759 Жыл бұрын

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Wait, the JWs used to use the crucifix? Like, with Christ on the Cross?

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts the transforming of denomination because of churches (trinitarian) outside the Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons (Unitarian/binitarian) , are so great at suppressing psychologically and theologically intimidating/ verbally abusing the people of the Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons churches by calling them cultists. is it possible because they reject trinitarians so that the pressure is so strong. for rejecting the trinitarian means rejecting the ecumenical/movement. Is this part of the effort to plan a road map as a starting point for changing/roadmap for transforming denominational churches outside of the ecumenical church? or from the efforts of the ecumenical movement to punish churches that reject trinitarian/ecumenism so that they will accept trinitarian/ecumenism. for the seventh day Adventist church the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian . for the church of god the plan worked so they changed the doctrine from binitarian to be trinitarian and name of the to Grace Communion Internationali. this repeating the history of the trinitarians who suppressed marcion and arius/Unitarian in 100-300 centuries to label them heretical by the trinitarian council of nicea ecumenical 325 (with military/state helping) as if being a ecumenical trinitarian is a benchmark for mental health or a normal human being who is mentally healthy.

@boatrat Жыл бұрын

Well, to be fair... I think it could be said that for the 70-80 % of people who split away from this group upon their massive theological revision, THEIR notion of this church clearly DID "collapse to pieces".

@venomvandal5443 Жыл бұрын

1:20 how do i sign up?

@StreetsOfVancouverChannel Жыл бұрын

It would be interesting to have you do a deep dive into the Russian/Greek Orthodox Church concept of **'theosis'** in light of the comments made in your video at 3:25...

@highviewbarbell Жыл бұрын

as an Orthodox myself it would be interesting to hear his take on it. People really misunderstand the concept

@k-v-d1795 Жыл бұрын

There's a massive difference between becoming God and becoming like god (lower case g)

@danfsteeple Жыл бұрын

The Essence-Energy Distinction is important to understand Theosis

@EcclesiastesLiker-py5ts Жыл бұрын

@@highviewbarbell I absolutely can not get my head around theosis. I mean no offence, but it sounds worryingly Mormon. Could you explain it to me?

@polycarpsmith1419 Жыл бұрын

*DID YOU KNOW* If Mary named Yahshua (Jesus), the *proper* name: *"Rock"* , Christ's name would have been *"Cephas"* (John 1:42, 1Cor. 1:12, 3:22, 9:5, Gal. 2:9) in the Aramaic and *"Petros"* in the Greek, and "Peter" in the Greek to English. There is only ONE way to Say the *proper* name ROCK and that is CEPHAS in the Aramaic and PETROS in the Greek. If Mary had named Christ "Rock" we would all be calling Christ *"Cephas or Peter"*

@walterhelm8186 Жыл бұрын

GCI is the first Barthian denomination. Herbert W. Armstrong has pretty much been replaced by Karl Barth as their principal theologian.

@davided9881 Жыл бұрын

What on earth happens in the 19. Century, so many sects emerged in that time it’s really mind blowing

@MRizzio Жыл бұрын

Joshua, if you are open, I would love to share some insights with you. Garner Ted Armstrong... The Plain Truth...is there a connection?

@UsefulCharts Жыл бұрын

Yes. The Plain Truth was the magazine put out by the Worldwide Church of God. Herbert Armstrong was the founder and Garner Ted was his son. They had a falling out in the 70s though and Garner Ted went on to form his own breakaway church.

@MRizzio Жыл бұрын

@@UsefulCharts I guess you and Joshua are in collaboration and that is all good. I have to acknowledge that THe Plain Truth entered this Catholic family around 69-70 and was a presence in the bathroom reading stack til I left for West Point. It had an effect, especially since it was glossy in its day. As a revert in 1998 I have wondered as to how it showed seeds of doubt that might have contributed to my near 22 year estrangement from the Faith. Thank you for your expert, impartial analysis. Tell Joshua to drop me a line...what I have to offer (free of charge) may surprise him. Tell him that his analysis of degrees of separation from the RCC and the Pope Francis pop ups got me chuckling.

@ReadyToHarvest Жыл бұрын

@@MRizzio Mike, feel free to email me at joshua@readytoharvest.com

@Perktube1 6 ай бұрын

Is this connected to Grace Communion Seminary?

@PUAlum Жыл бұрын

Is this the only group to so own their various failings? I'm impressed by them.

@simonline1194 Жыл бұрын

The picture is of Herbert W. Armstrong so it must be The Worldwide Church of God (British Israelitism)?! Simonline🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿🤔

@ellensstory4429 Жыл бұрын

My Mom, Grandma and Uncle were involved in this when I was a child. My Dad would have nothing to do with them and subsequently I was half way raised normal. They loved too prophecy and of course the prophecy was terrifying to a kid. I am 65 years old and l think I am still affected by what I heard. In my opinion they were nuts and possibly evil.

@MaryamMaqdisi Жыл бұрын

Sorry you had to go through that, hope you can look back and be proud of yourself for getting to where you are now, bless you

@SantaFe19484 Жыл бұрын

You never run out of denominations

@michaellallo4437 Жыл бұрын

I was a member of WCG.When I understood our doctrins were cultish, I rejoiced in the new revelation.Now the leadership is over compensating and starting to accept evolution ect.Please, you are Saved by Grace through Faith, and that not of yourself,it is a gift of GOD.Seek the Holy Spirit without which you are not a christian and would not correctly understand Scriptures.

@jamielumm9583 Жыл бұрын

Now if every other church realized that they are also wrong we might have something to happy about.

@brianholly3555 Жыл бұрын

When I was a kid, I listened to “The World Tomorrow,” featuring Herbert’s son, Garner Ted Armstrong.

@odess4sd4d Жыл бұрын

What other denomination would they be closest to doctrinally now? It's good they persisted to make a point about rejecting Armstrongism, but I wonder what's distinctive enough to justify a separate movement.

@wendyleeconnelly2939 Жыл бұрын

It's not. They are just plain old evangelicals now. The splinter groups or the SDA are places for prior believers to go.

@rexjamerson9316 Жыл бұрын

Philadelphia Church of God and restored Church of God would be your answer.

@odess4sd4d Жыл бұрын

@@rexjamerson9316 I meant what denomination would Grace Communion international be most similar to. PCG and RCG both claim to be faithful to Armstrong's doctrine.

@drewrote Жыл бұрын

I don't believe GCI wants to be a separate movement but rather join the original triune God-established movement.

@Lorrainecats Жыл бұрын

I really like this church. Too bad there aren't any congregations in our area.

@belajarmusik1234 Жыл бұрын

@robertrendon7128 5 ай бұрын

God will venerate Mr Armstrong in the end and shame the wicked .

@stevey1597 23 күн бұрын

You just can't let go of your Idol, can you?

@thomasweston6266 Жыл бұрын

i remember Garner Ted Armstrong......he had some troubles

@Chuck44442 Жыл бұрын

I listened on the Radio to every program. Read Plain Truth ea page. Read all the booklets. I found it interesting he sooo much respect from world leaders.

@greggi47 Жыл бұрын

Well, I used to read some of the publications, and The World Tomorrow always had photos of HWA posing with world leaders. That doesn't mean they thought much of him and his church. They certainly must have enjoyed the Steuben Glass gifts that he gave them. The bills for those must have been enormous.

@anarchorepublican5954 Жыл бұрын

↩180° doctrinal turn around..

@wendyleeconnelly2939 Жыл бұрын

Yeah the main organization pretty much became apostate to its own teachings.

@slamdancer1720 Жыл бұрын

Better, but needs to keep reforming.

@romeovelasco4151 Жыл бұрын

To the owner of this video, may I ask, are you a member or somehow connected with GCI

@ReadyToHarvest Жыл бұрын

No, I make videos on various Christian denominations.

@happydon999 4 ай бұрын

@@ReadyToHarvest I was a member of Worldwide church for 9 years until '93. The post-'95 leaders who changed most of the doctrines were so wrong! WCG was a mixture of good and bad for decades but most of what it taught was biblical IMHO!! I believe there is no purpose for GCI's existence today!

@ellebell9139 Жыл бұрын

I grew up in this..... Yeesh...

@awequayzngs1780 Жыл бұрын

So you're part of this .

@esserman1603 Жыл бұрын

Hello.

@barriesmith3489 Жыл бұрын

Armstrong made may mistakes as with many of his followers but this is what happens with man’s teach of the scriptures I believe the bible word for word God made. The world and the creation of life in six actual days

@rainboweldor3730 Жыл бұрын

After watching dozens of your videos I finally found a mistake! At 11:47 you read "adulteress" but wrote "adulterous." 😊

@CalvinistEeyore Жыл бұрын

Grace Communion is an intresting case study I know those that Evanglize the LDS point to GCI as the example of what needs to happen if The LDS Church were ever to come over to Orthodoxy. Of the the loyalist groups that still follow Armstrong I've always found The Philadelphia Church of God the most interesting given what an odd individual it's founder Gerald R. Flurry is and all of the odd self-serveing prophecies he has made thruout the years to prop up the authority of his frankly cultic organization.

@highviewbarbell Жыл бұрын

how could LDS ever come over to Orthodoxy? They'd have to affirm the Nicene creed and renounce the Book of Mormon

@MAMoreno Жыл бұрын

@@highviewbarbell The Community of Christ was formerly the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, led by Joseph Smith's son and later descendants until 1996. It is now a Trinitarian denomination with mostly Mainline Protestant beliefs. It could happen to the main LDS church, too.

@highviewbarbell Жыл бұрын

@@MAMoreno ok but mainline protestantism isn't Orthodox by any stretch

@tessah6287 Жыл бұрын

@@highviewbarbellOrthodox has more than one meaning. It can mean the eastern church, or it can mean orthodox, mainstream Christianity. Look at G.K. Chesterton's book "Orthodoxy." It isn't about the eastern church.

@highviewbarbell Жыл бұрын

@@tessah6287 big O is always the Orthodox Church, the church that Christ founded

@menudobucket9837 Жыл бұрын

The name of Armstrong sounds familiar but it’s been a few decades since I last heard it; and at that time, it was a televangelist who taught that the ‘mark of the beast’ spoken of in the book of Revelation is manifest in today’s world as money. It’s entirely possible that I’ve confused the Armstrong of this video with the Armstrong of my past; but either way, with the eminent reality of dedollarization and the move of central banks to the use of programmable CBDCs, it would appear that a cashless society is a near horizon eventuality and fits rather squarely into the prophecy that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark.. (Revelation 13:17 KJV)

@johnmccadden7121 Жыл бұрын

You do amazingly thorough research--that's the way it appears to me though I don't speak professionally. I don't know if you have an affiliation but I'd think it difficult when the scope of your videos shows how denominational churches are so like corporations with very little service function and so many organizational flaws. I'd doubt a creator of the universe would have anything to do with any of them. This denomination is so unusual in that it admits it's made mistakes.

@sorenpx Жыл бұрын

He's Independent Fundamental Baptist (IFB).

@lisaeshleman754 Жыл бұрын

Great example of a denomination that should have just dissipated and absorbed into other denominations. Why would someone who believes these things want to be part of a denomination founded by someone who believed the opposite?

@drewrote Жыл бұрын

When a person accepts Jesus, he/she doesn't just publicly proclaim it then goes invisible afterwards.

@rms-vp6hf 7 ай бұрын

The Cult still exists. Those who have come to Christ have abandoned the “prophetic” teachings of HWA. The cults that have off shot still preach the same doctrines as “the one true church”.

@ericwolford5685 Жыл бұрын

Sounds similar to the Community of Christ (formerly known as the Reorganized Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints).

@zunir0a Ай бұрын

How does a denom go from “We’re the one true Church!!” to suddenly being fence-sitting on every doctrine possible

@jenkinsbrigade9862 Жыл бұрын

Wow. It is rather discouraging to see a former cult embrace much of what historical Protestantism believes and yet stumble badly on the question of origins. Contrary to whatever Mr. Morrison may write, young-earth creationism is neither an "extreme position" nor one possessing the "least evidence." Concordism (i.e., the various attempts made to reconcile deep time and evolution with the biblical account) is a relatively recent invention; throughout most of church history, Genesis 1-3 has been understood (rightly, in my view) as a historical narrative, since that is the plain reading of the text, and it is not written in the Hebrew conventions used for either poetry or allegory. Moreover, creationists have exactly the same amount of evidence as scientific naturalists; in fact, neither side can lay exclusive claim to any form of evidence -- both camps examine the same fossils, DNA sequences, anatomical structures, and other forms of evidence. Where we differ is in the interpretation of that evidence. Mr. Morrison's summation of the creationist position is exactly the sort of smear one expects to see from someone who most likely has never made any serious effort to grapple with the mountains of sound science done by young earth creationists and instead chooses to attack much less troublesome straw men.

@woody1320 Жыл бұрын

Still a group to stay clear of

@jakedubin8219 5 ай бұрын

Why?

@johnpeter1999 5 ай бұрын

A deceived person does not know he is deceived. It is the same with a church. Time will tell who currently is and is not deceived about the truths of the Bible.

@texaspineywoods3879 Жыл бұрын

The world is overflowing with wackadoo narcissists.

@alex21mu Жыл бұрын

That’s the old wcog

@theMOCmaster 8 ай бұрын

2:00 150,000

@drummerjbmybands46 19 күн бұрын

1 Corinthians 14:33 King James Version 33 "For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints." 1 Corinthians 1:10-17 King James Version 10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." All these churches with contradicting doctrines, disagreeing and speaking different things... That is confusion! The scripture is not subject to private interpretation. The holy scriptures agree, and they interpret themselves, when examined in the spirit of honesty and Truth. Christ said I will build my church, not many groups of disagreeing churches! The truth is the wcg under Christ , through his apostle Mr Armstrong taught the prophecy and doctrine of the scriptures without contradiction. And that's just the plain truth.

@user-qb4ri7wi8w 12 күн бұрын

The Church in Apostasy,GCI

@AmericanMephistopheles 7 күн бұрын

10:57 DAS RIIIIIIIIIITE

@janellestoermer5479 Жыл бұрын

I'm glad they're not a cult anymore, but they still don't take a stand on a lot of issues that are clearly spelled out in scripture. I don't like their splitting hairs between inspired and inerrant in regard to scripture.

@mistertommy Жыл бұрын

From the GCI members I know personally, I believe they are genuine Christians. It’s important to understand that while they correctly rejected prior teachings, it was traumatic for them. They lean heavily into grace and in some ways tread lightly. I kinda get it.

@giovanni545 10 ай бұрын

Revelation 12:17 17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

@sd-ch2cq Жыл бұрын

So much soul-searching and self-doubt makes me a bit suspicious tbh (about trying to lure in believers by making a big show of the pretense of self-doubt)

@Maranville Жыл бұрын

Two problems with this church in my experience: first, evangelicalism is not much of an improvement, and second, the members seem stuck on beating the dead horse of debunking Armstrongism, rather than moving on.

@notoneofthesheep Жыл бұрын

Great comments!!

@Maranville Жыл бұрын

@@notoneofthesheep thanks