What is Grand Scale Railroading? | Railroad 101

[@gregr267]

Fantastic! Very well done! You really captured the "feel" of that event and of Grand Scale railroading.

[@Hyce777]

Thank you Greg!

[@SDE1994]

in the UK we call it Minimum gauge, a term coined from the father of the 15 inch, Sir Arthur Heywood, the minimum gauge that can be practically used for freight which he experimented with in the 1880's

[@lukemendel8197]

I like those. The Arlesdale Railway sends its regards.

[@Hyce777]

That's fun. Over here in the US (where everything's bigger, duh ;D) 24" / 2' is the "minimum" for what the folks want to regulate / consider full size. But you guys are right in that 15" is certainly doable!

[@turkeytrac1]

Hyce is right, this is model railroading in a really huge scale. Unlike 15" gauge Haywood, which is full sized narrow gauge (albit the apparent minimum) railroads, generally referred to as "estate railways". Btw, the woman at the start is wrong, there's a huge difference between these mega models than say a Porter narrow gauge 18" 0-4-0, which was a actual industrial locomotive.

[@SDE1994]

the idea was cemented in the 1920's by the Romney Hythe & Dymchurch rly being a full working mainline and the Ravenglass & Eskdale carrying iron ore

[@emj1989]

​@turkeytrac1 how is she wrong? the 19 in gauge 1/3 scale overfair railway witch is considered grand scale was built in 1913 and 14 for the san francisco world's fair the railroad was built as a people mover but the railroad was also used to construct its self and move some freight on the grounds

[@nielsleenknegt5839]

So Hyce thought; "Let's take the tallest man in 3 foot railroading, and have him running even smaller trains. This sounds fun."

[@turkeytrac1]

That verticle boilered loco is the only one shown that would encompass the term "minimal gauge" is truly awesome!

[@TheOneTrueDragonKing]

The Number 1, that cute little vertical-boiler steam engine... I love it!

[@WasatchWind]

Lol Kenosha playing at around 18:30 stressed me out xD

[@kenanjones3481]

omg I didn't notice that the first time! I haven't watched enough derail valley apparently :(

[@humblepinecone]

One of the pioneering Grand Scale railroads in the US is actually one that is largely forgotten, the Centerville & Southwestern in New Jersey. In the 1940s, this line (also on a farm) was doing what the Hillcrest & Wahtoke does today, with a 1-mile mainline of 9-7/16” gauge track and a fleet of exquisite equipment that included a 20-foot-long live steam Northern with a genuine ALCO boiler. The equipment still trundles in NJ today although in a much diminished capacity.

[@foellerd]

At full scale I’m more of a Diesel fanatic. However at these smaller scales I’m way more interested in the steam. At those smaller scales the steam is so similar to full scale with most of the same components. For whatever reason small scale diesels are basically never anything like their full scale counterparts. For example they usually aren’t diesel electric, they don’t have dynamic braking, they can’t run DPU’s, the exhaust isn’t as much fun to deal with since it’s now right in your face, the engines don’t sound like scale versions of the big ones, etc etc. It’s just funny to me that old school steam scales so nicely when it seems like it would be harder to do.

[@Hyce777]

Yeah it's interesting how that works, isn't it?

[@xenowreborn]

G R A N D E T R U N K Scale! all jokes aside, Seeing you Interact with, other Hobbyists, sharing your stories, and of course running the Things are always enjoyable to watch, Thank you for this this Experience

[@erikschiller7210]

I grew up around the Hillcrest and Wahtoke railroad and pumpkin patch. When I was 13 I was talking to engineer on the 2-8-0 while it was stopped at the station and he offered to let me ride in the cab next to him. Definitely a core memory for me. I haven’t been there since I moved to AK 5 years ago but I hope to go there again soon to see what they’ve added.

[@musiqtee]

Thanks for _consistently_ providing French revolutionary units top left. We’re not that imperial, except when measuring audio tape speeds, floppy disks, bike frames, wheel rims, TVs and PC monitors… Oh, and drum kit pieces, guitar gauge and loudspeakers… and lumber… and aircraft altitude & speed… 😅

[@Hyce777]

Lol! I forgot to do it last time and got hounded by the sane portion of the world that uses metric so I tried my best to get it all the way through for this one.

[@musiqtee]

@@Hyce777 It could’ve been worse; Neighboring country Sweden had their own ‘imperial units’, as “Swedish three foot gauge” was 891 mm. That’s 2’ 11.079” for real imperials, I think… (don’t push me for a /128 fraction, I’d never get it right… seventynine thou, that’ll do!) BTW, lovely presentation of the Grand Scale community! Heartfelt engagement and pleasure, thanks for conveying those good vibes so well… 👍

[@QuincyO5b]

these little engines are just so precious yet powerful, thanks for sharing! :]

[@Tvxgo-3642]

My dad and i bought a 5" Australian NSWGR 59 class that has a working air compressor, its probably smaller than the wheels shown at 1:05 lmao

[@LordoftheThings327]

Even as a Californian, there's so much wonderful railroading stuff and railroads big and small I've only just been learning about- even from your channel- now that I'm paying attention. I'm hoping to do more traveling here soon since I'm planning on finally getting my long overdue license this year, so I'm gonna try and go out to see it all for myself.

[@jamiesuejeffery]

One of my father’s local friends was a professional welder and metal worker. I met him several times. He built a a steam engine from the ground up. I don’t know what gauge it is. After several years of work, he finally got the boiler pressure tested and, of course it passed. Alas, he only got to run it half a dozen times before he passed as well. His family brought the steam engine to his funeral.

[@mafarnz]

I’d love to see a grand scale Rio Grande 2-8-2. Either a K-28 or K-37. Judging by the size of the locomotives there, that would be huge!

[@barryvandraiss6083]

The Billy Jone's Wildcat engine was a big part of my first job!

[@mountianguy108]

I died when you…. That Tractor is scaled to him!!! 😂 LMAO and that face!!!! 😅 I’m dying here lol

[@buckduane1991]

#1 is about as close to Tom Thumb as it gets, and might be the only locomotive like that running currently. It might be new, but it literally goes to the roots of the steam locomotive. It’s incredible to think that less then 20 years after the War of 1812, we steam engines driving locomotives on rails on land where you found Fort McHenry and ships at sea where you found USS Constitution. However, what is truly the most unbelievable is… that they let Layton run it knowing his track record with that SP locomotive! xD

[@leightonmoreland]

Decisions were made but mistakes were not!

[@dalecherne5377]

Wow, I haven't seen Scott Kennedy in years! He was probably barely 20 the last time I saw him. Did you guys talk to CJ Vargas at all? Another really skilled man thats ran multiple different steam engines at Niles Canyon, Roaring Camp, and Billy Jones Wildcat Railroad. We used to all hangout in Santa Clara, California many years ago. Good times!

[@Hyce777]

CJ was the gent who invited me out to the event. Wonderful human. :)

[@dalecherne5377]

@@Hyce777 Indeed! 😁

[@FuelFire]

Oh man, this is SO cool! I want to build a 5 inch gauge garden railroad on our property at some point in the near future. Plans will be in the works very soon :D

[@carsonarnsdorf7226]

I’m just waiting for Mark to make his own grandscale Huber tractor

[@milissathreatt8014]

I can see it now, hyce is going to make a mini ES&D

[@Zephyr_Silver]

That “steam jalopy” locomotive is like a delightfully Frankensteined “coffee pot” or vertical boiler steam engine. I love it 🤣

[@awildjared1396]

When I was 5 years old I saw these grand scale trains, I looked at my mother and said "how much does steel cost? I want some of these in the backyard." (for reference: a backyard not big enough to put an automobile anywhere)

[@shanelynch2218]

It crazy the power behind them

[@TheEpicDragonCat]

The little grasshopper lookalike is very cute.

[@lukemendel8197]

I like janky, made-from-whatever, locomotives. If it works, and it ain't broke, no need for anything more costly.

[@BMMEC6000]

You have no idea how high my anxiety started going when Smells Like Kenosha started playing while Hyce was operating the kettle

[@Pyrotrainthing]

Grande Scale is my favorite, small enough for the cab ride big enough to haul freight!

[@andrewreynolds4949]

I want one I’m fairly sure I’ve heard this called park gauge before. Its attractiveness seems to me small enough to not be too overwhelming and intimidating, and small enough to move around relatively easily, yet big enough to still feel “real”

[@samuelhayes5198]

If you're near LA go to the train museum at Griffith Park, they have a small ride on loop around it, around 7"ish gauge I think

[@jawharp1992]

Los Angeles Live Steamers! They also have the barn Walt Disney used in his back yard for his own backyard live steam railroad. And next to that is Travel Town, a free railroad museum with its own grand scale train ride that goes around the park. That grand scale train was also owned by Gene Autry on his ranch.

[@brillbusbootcamp2320]

Haha! Hyce, watching you cope with spring switches will never get old!

[@Hyce777]

You got to see it for the first time! Lol.

[@ReggieArford]

@@Hyce777 Do they have any stub switches? Those switchstands look mighty familiar.

[@connerhabib8328]

We have one three point stub switch at our car barn. The other 13 or 14 switches are all on harp stands as well, but are all spring switches. During "normal operations," with two trains hauling passengers at about 10 cars per train, the spring switches are a necessity because of the loops in each division and the bypass sections where trains pass each other on the inbound/outbound. ​@ReggieArford

[@catfish552]

Lovely video, Mark! I have fond memories of riding on 15-inch trains in the UK, the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway down in Kent. It is mostly a tourist operation today (though locals use it as well), and it also had a number of freight contracts over the years and even its own little armored train during WWII! They have some very pretty engines, and the southern end of the line at Dungeness is just stunning.

[@bwlyon]

Love anything steam, small or large. It will never cease to amaze me what can be done with water and a fire!

[@austinpeterson572]

Awesome video. I especially love the part when the caboose passes by and you say “It’s got authentic miniature flat spots. Gadododgug”. 🤣🤣🤣

[@matthewlemire]

Great video, Hyce!! I learned so much about Grand Scale Railroading, and I agree with everyone you interviewed, it has a special quality that attracts everyone to the hobby. It was a pleasure to meet you again, and keep up the great content!!

[@Mason58654]

The Romney, Hythe & Dymchurch Railway (15" gauge) sends its regards! 😊 👍

[@Hyce777]

An excellent railway, that I'd love to come visit sometime!

[@runnerman1424]

@@Hyce777 If you do you should go to the Ravenlass & Eskdale on the other side in the Lake District with it having the oldest still operating 15" Gauge Locomotive in the world.

[@garysprandel1817]

Hyce having all sorts of fun with big little trains lately.

[@Hyce777]

It's funny how timing works out, lol - the video from yesterday was filmed in October.

[@rgsrrofnc]

Tinytown there in Colorado is 15" gauge. Lakeside is 22" gauge. There were others but I believe they are closed or are private now. 7.5" scale was still my choice because there are far more 7.5" gauge railroads including Train Mountain. I had the opportunity to get a 15" gauge railroad (locomotive, hopper and a BUNCH of larger rails) donated to me but I didn't have the room for it here. It instead went to Illinois to hopefully help them out. In exchange, I got a bunch of aluminum rail I can some day use on my 7.5" gauge railroad.

[@Hyce777]

7.5" gauge is rad too. I'll do a special on it one of these days as well.

[@ChrisS-pr6hj]

3:54 Was my home railroad! The BJWRR! You should really visit. The #2 holds a special place in my heart but the #5 is their newer pacific steam loco.

[@AndreasSebayang]

Wow, Hyce, that’s good storytelling here. Especially the end was crafted really good. Could run as a TV show.

[@thetoontrain473]

The steam tractor looks like it was pulled right out of a cartoon with the first chuffs jerking the vehicle slowly forward. It’s just too funny and adorable!

[@MikeinUt]

The bell on the One Spot sounds like it came out of an old Carousel. That thing is eclectic.

[@zzyzx0069]

Such adorable super serious locos. Only thinh missing would have been a train that had soil, rocks, and hauling around actual tonnage chuffing away just show that they can indeed do real work.

[@cmw184]

I absolutely love your endings to the videos. Outstanding

[@darknut9696]

In the UK we have the RH&DR which is 13.5 mile railway in grand scale/ minimum gauge it has been in service since 1927 and runs day to day passenger and had done school services up until 2015, The RH&DR stands for Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway

[@Hyce777]

I want to go see that railway. It's so cool. They shot down a German plane in WWII with it.

[@SDE1994]

@@Hyce777 that story was not confirmed

[@davidty2006]

@@SDE1994 Well it did have the smallest armoured train armed with lewis guns and boys anti tank rifles. Why? well why not!

[@C.I...]

@@Hyce777 Allegedly it downed itself because it was trying to get closer to what the crew thought was a full-sized train. If you're ever in the UK, come to the Bure Valley Railway in Norfolk as well - same gauge as Romney but the engines are much bigger!

[@connerhabib8328]

Years ago, Eric Thomson and some of the Redwood Valley guys took one of their locos to Romney. It apparently kept up just fine! If Hillcrest or Redwood ​Valley ran at Romney speeds, we'd end up in the dirt, then the parking lot, and in the neighbor's vineyard. 😂😂 @@Hyce777

[@franciss.9803]

Not to get off track but I’m from Hawaii and it was nice to see the Hawaiian Islands on the world map in the background 🤣. Awesome channel btw. 🤙🏽

[@baileydevries4494]

The #5 and One Spot were both built at the now defunct Glenwood Southpark and Pacific Railroad in the Santa Cruz mountains. The #13 was built by Hillcrest for the GS&P but never delivered

[@VixessRin1702]

I too am guilty of calling these little engines adorable

[@himaro101]

We've got a duel gauge 5" & 7.25" railway down the road, run by enthusiasts on Sundays. They mostly run "diesel" looking electrics but have a few steamers as well on occasion.

[@DFX2KX]

so essentially, that's the scale of the train that was (last time I was there anyway, for context, Disaster Transport was still a thing) at Cedar point. And it's the closest thing to an actual train I've ever been on. That DIY, post-apocalyptic looking one is hilarious and honestly looks simple enough that I'd give it a whirl.

[@DFX2KX]

Thinking on it, if you wired a third rail or pantigraph wires up, you could almost get a decent working rail line in place for a collage town. those trains carry about the same number of people as a bus.

[@FinalLugiaGuardian]

20:45 That looks eerily similar to the reciprocating engines on a steamship from the early 1910s.

[@collinparks274]

that looks like so much fun, i wish there was a railroad like that around where i live, even a 7.25" would be cool, but i dont have any around me

[@osageorangegaming5128]

At 18:20 when I heard Smells like Kenosha start and as it went on playing I was "Uh oh! UH OH! We're gonna have an IRL Kenosha! What's gonna be wrecked?" We've seen it here, folks: Hyce has made his first Grand Scale dirtage! Also was that the mechanical lubricator at 20:50?

[@Hyce777]

Yup!

[@henningerhenningstone691]

I absolutely love these railroading documentaries of yours! Thanks for the great work Hyce and friends

[@captainkrazee7726]

Who made that art for the interviews? The 491 running animation is amazing!

[@Hyce777]

That's from Brett! He's a multi talented man.

[@Squidy-gx6eb]

You should come out to the Whyskey River Railway in Marshall WI. We have a few 16in gauge steam engines and even a 15in gauge 4-12-2 in the shops

[@kellhound7227]

It's not a Hyce video without "Smells Like Kenosha" playing at least once! Those were some gorgeous locomotives and rolling stock, and I'm grateful that I could at least get to see it through your video on KZbin, cause I doubt I'd ever have the funds to go see a quarter of the cool miniature railways like this that exist out there! Thank you for sharing!

[@teraris]

The Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway in the UK is worth a visit.

[@davidty2006]

theres alot of minature railway... Though yes the one with the tiny armoured train do be the one.

[@TrainMedia00]

It's so insane there were 1,000 scale gauge railways all over the world, and the largest one is Train Mountain 36 miles of rail tracks and 2,300 acres in southern Oregon. If I ever own a 15 inch gauge railroad I'll differently had more subscribers to build this insane rail line. Like I'm inside a huge model railroad layout.

[@patricksheary2219]

Hi Mark, what a beautiful 101 video about Grand Scale Railroading at the Hillcrest & Wahtoke Railroad. I admit I’ve not thought about this much (although I have friends who work with this scale equipment). Mark, this video opens up a new world for me and this is one of the reasons why I love your channel. I learn something new every time I tune in! Those choo choos are magnificent, so impressive. Rather like works of art created by talented and passionate preservationists. Again, the precision details make me scream! BTW, I absolutely loved that tractor! So amazingly fun to watch you, Brett and Leighton operate the Number 1! Too cool! Many, many thanks Professor for this stunning learning video and, as always, cheers to you! Finally, can’t wait to see Brett’s upcoming videos about his experience there!

[@Hyce777]

Cheers Patrick!

[@danielwyatt7928]

We need more videos like this!!! Loved it

[@hughmungas5462]

All these little custom builds are beautifully done. Would love to work on one of these little miniature lines.

[@Bobis32]

all these trips feels like research for hyce building the grand scale Montezuma :P

[@Dj3ndo]

Exquisite video quality. Never ceases to entertain and educate me!

[@Emerald_Night]

I love them ;~; perfect size for show piece that people can ride on without being overly large "in the dirt" is a state of mind. As long as you don't believe you put it in ther dirt it was never in the dirt

[@TheKurtsPlaceChannel]

Very nice video. Thanks for posting and have a nice day too.

[@craigtorso]

So hard to see that burned-over Overfair RR / Lazy SP. Really hope those folks find a home for that railroad. It’s easily one of the most historic grand scale railways.

[@theromanorder]

I hope to build one of these railroads one day.. if i can't have full size ill have this

[@bupbead2731]

This is absolutely amazing, nothing more and nothing less.

[@WildGames69-765]

is that the scale zuma will be

[@FuelFire]

Yes but no but yes but no

[@andrewmagosky7181]

The Zuma wouldn't be much bigger than one of those.

[@captainkrazee7726]

It won’t be much bigger but it will be set to 3 foot narrow gauge, which is the same size 491,346, and 20 are set to

[@TwinLitz2]

Zuma is going to be a standard narrow gauge

[@foellerd]

@@FuelFirethe most Hyce answer ever, it’s almost like he’s actually responding to this comment.

[@rollincoal4014]

I have a emd f7 I'm building for a 7.25/7.5 ing guage, and it looks awesome

[@FJX2000_Productions]

Scott! Love seeing his photos on Facebook when he is down there running trains!

[@hughwoatmeigh6999]

Believe it or not, quarter million dollar price tag for a starter engine. More than a plane. (Absolutely worth it.)

[@Isaiahstetson]

i work at redwood valley railway lmao 7 looked like she had fun

[@QuorkQTar]

Very nice video, making me a bit nostalgic of my 7.25" times - even though that was more in the "minimum gauge" mindset (i.e. doing proper operations with equipment specifically constructed for that size, *not* models of bigger equipment) than "grand scale". But they're very similar experiences and communities and have the same thrill to them. It has the heftiness and seriousness of the big thing and the responsibility is not to be underestimated; your mistake can absolutely kill people there. But in the same time it has a lightness and playfulness akin that of models. You can play around, build goofy equipment and just have fun. Much appreciated with all those SI conversions in the video 😊 However, now we gotcha, Hyce: You yourself posted video evidence of spring switches in narrow gauge railroading of the American West in the steam era, so … spring switches in CoS when? 😈😈😈 Again, really great thanks for this beautiful video and all the insights. I enjoyed it a lot.

[@Hyce777]

I'm glad you enjoyed mate! The D&RGW had a few spring switches, as did the EBT. You will get them...

[@arthurkallansrud1950]

When I was a kid there was a steam train that operated in Olsen Park in Fort Dodge ,Iowa.Forv10 cents could ride the 3/4 mile track . I think in 1965 or so the owner died and the train was taken out .

[@lancecluster]

I had not heard Grand Scale before. I had heard Park Gauge. Nice video. Thanks,

[@ReggieArford]

The "Stanley Steamer" engine on Locomotive #1 - Is that an actual 120 year old antique, or a ~modern reproduction? The Stanley brothers built very few of these chain-drive engines, and for an East Coast market.

[@hiena8511]

in catalonia we have some 10 inch tracks near barcelona like tren de loreneta in barcelona, holstal del fum in palau de plegamans, parc de cataluña in sabadell etc etc

[@zacksstuff]

Have you ever been out to Train Mountain in Chiloquin, Oregon? I believe it's the largest 7.5" gauge railroad in the world. Definitely worth a visit if you're ever in the area.

[@Hyce777]

I need to get out there! It's on the bucket list.

[@bluescrew3124]

Hyce ES & D! Also that firebox was adorable

[@warmstrong5612]

Up here in Canada where we have English & French as our two official languages, 'Large' & 'Grand' mean the same thing. So it was amusing to me to think of Grand scale as being bigger than Large scale.

[@Hyce777]

Lol, that's funny.

[@ColtonRMagby]

I love scale equipment, functional or not. At least you're not climbing a ladder to get at the controls of these locomotives, which means operating them is more accessible to the public because people who have to use a wheelchair or crutches can get in the steat and give it a whirl, unless their arms don't work. I'd love to see a video on the trains at Silver Dollar City eventually.

[@solarusthelonghaulerrailfa3226]

A interesting observation about the vertical boiler engine is that it has a certain look of a certain robot 😊

[@patrickmcneilly4293]

You can always get a Grand Scale Huber tractor if you can't get the real thing. Just put a trailer hitch on the GTO and embrace the 70s tradition of towing with a muscle car.

[@railwayjade]

I hope you visit Train Mountain one day - I want to visit the US just to witness that lol

[@MrGrumpyToast]

Now you need to find the time to go and see the whiskey river rail road, its 19 inch gauge

[@mollyengelmanmedia]

Looks like Whisky River is 16” gauge

[@ayayaybamba3445]

So you know how they make those magnets for the bumpers of cars....You should get 2 big ones for the ES&D and put them on 491's tender and see how long it takes somebody to notice...

[@wild_lee_coyote]

A Grand Scale RR would be fun as a Century of Steam DLC.

[@user-Duckmaster22]

More smol trains!

[@Dan_Gyros]

Incredibly cool!

[@pinecone01]

That #13 Consolidation is an absolute beauty!

[@Stefan_Boerjesson]

Big toys for big boys. Lots of work, for sure. Member on a veteran railroad since 52 years, now days a driver..

[@obscuresum51thegamer12]

This makes me want to build a layout like that and build my own Union Pacific bigboy to run on the layout

[@Cosmic_Tortoise]

10:15 A fully appropriate moment from an inner child.

[@Josiah100x]

died at 3:20 seeing that Shay and expecting a negative comment. need a Grand Scale 'Zuma with a Huber 6-Chime.

[@Texaskeykeeper]

I keep trying to convince my dad this is what we need for our vegetable farm/stand 😆

[@theredcaboose6702]

Damn, I had forgotten back in high-school I wanted to get into the Grand Scale of things (LOL). Perhaps I will once I have my own place and a decent piece of land. Untill then gotta learn my way up the GCR

[@KlaxontheImpailr]

This would be perfect for a kid summer program, like those soviet pioneer railways but america style.

[@kollinspencer847]

man this is cool! thanks for posting.