What is Power Scaling? | Powerscaling 101

[@brandonontama2415]

The problem with A < B < C is that some characters are better suited to fight certain characters. A might beat B but C can beat A due to having an ability that counters A but C will still lose to B.

[@surfbone]

That is true, I probably should've brought this up. But it wasn't that necessary and I also didn't think about that at the time Lol

[@sleeexs]

@@surfbone power of friensdship & plot makes everything irrelevant

[@fiction9924]

9:43

[@fiction9924]

@@surfbone Thank you.

[@vegetacultkokushibo4392]

Like the world even if your scrawny and cant punch through walls like paper doesn't matter if you can freeze time and go up to them and stab them in there kidney and 💀

[@LeaderOfTheLostSouls]

First cuz I’ve got Irrelevant Speed

[@LeaderOfTheLostSouls]

Also Eww 13 Reasons Why is god awful lol Cuties is just asking for FBI Open Up Lol But great video overall 👌

[@Bigsmoke-tn3wf]

@@LeaderOfTheLostSouls I heavily agree with you

[@holyzenith2229]

My speed is irrelevant too: I'm so slow that my running capacity barely makes any diference.

[@lfc_szn4274]

That’s great *now prove that you’re omnipresent by replying on all comments in this video*

[@loercayt6146]

@@LeaderOfTheLostSouls my speed is irrelevant

[@crazedadventurer5717]

The subtitles in that seth vs vacheeto debate were needlessly funny lol

[@froger9973]

Came From Noodles's Bleach Hub Video. Glad you got you're name cleared up, Nobody has to go through that.

[@zalangyuricza8149]

Nice pfp my guy

[@blazeblitzx988]

Keep up the good work man. Hopefully this series helps people who don't know or want to learn more about power scaling either get into it or help them understand it.

[@nothingimportanthere2082]

Definitely thought this was very good for people who are new to power scaling. We need more content like this on KZbin for normie scalers. Please keep up the good work! 👍

[@blindt3279]

@@nothingimportanthere2082 nobody gives a fuck aboug power scaling 💀

[@nothingimportanthere2082]

@@blindt3279 You wouldn't be here if that were the case so here's your free duncecap. While we're at it, this is a 3 year old comment, you donut.

[@bradleywilliams548]

@@blindt3279 ur so wrong

[@blindt3279]

@@bradleywilliams548 im not lmao get a life

[@theprestonshow9520]

I'm just learning however there's 1 thing in powerscaling that I disagree with. That being the A>B>C argument. Because of different characters abilities. C could be able to beat A, but not B. Its very possible I've been in real life situations where this was the case. In terms of actual power it would hold up, but not in terms of who would win the fight.

[@reflex9238]

There are situations where this is true like Bleach as it’s very Hax based, however generally speaking the A > B > C argument holds up because abilities that other characters tend to have can only go so far to help them when they’re far inferior to someone where they can’t hurt them. Abilities really only work, when they tend to be relative to each other, as abilities wouldn’t matter if they can’t hurt the person they’re fighting.

[@rhysjonsmusic]

I'm glad to see that people are now more willing to accept statements in debates. I was at my wits end seeing these "feats>statements, I only want to see feats" elitist arguing that the dbz verse was only planet level.

[@xeli3046]

Don't forget the Naruto verse, so cancerous that the toxic fans in particular are always looking to win an arguement.

[@Kreepyhuh]

@@xeli3046 Ong ppl be like “give me feats” but never take context in for consideration

[@LegacyComics]

Thank you for educating the masses so we don't have to argue with newcomers on vocab and basic concepts of power scaling for an hour. Really helpful video!

[@yulverick]

Awesome shit man; can't wait for more "Lessons on" videos! It's great stuff.

[@nijimuraokuyasu8830]

Honestly this guy explains so well

[@Slayerofdoom168]

To people new to powerscalling, start with the Demon Slayer verse. The feats are not that hard to compare and understand. Things such as comparing two characters speed is quite easy

[@LUNA-zn7ep]

I came from Noodles’ video and I wasn’t disappointed. Amazing work, man!

[@T22Ade]

Thank you for this, I haven’t understood power scaling very well and this really helped me. Can’t wait for the video about hax :>

[@surfbone]

Glad to hear that this video helped you better properly understand the concept! Comments like these reassure me I'm doing my job well and I very much appreciate it. While a video concerning Hax won't be for a while. As I plan to have few more videos out before it that will most definitely make it a lot easier to understand when watched in order. But it is guaranteed to happen, so look forward to that!

[@yasu3312]

dude thank you sm this has helped me SOO much in debates and i want to see more like what universal power and stuff like that is still confusing to me lol

[@surfbone]

Glad to hear this video helped you out! I promise to continue bringing quality content that'll help you better understand power scaling

[@tarkeondomaster6314]

@@surfbone have u released it yet??

[@surfbone]

@@tarkeondomaster6314 Not yet Lol

[@joz.x1747]

It's not confusing, it's easy to do.

[@kulikevl5312]

This was awesome. I did not know what power scaling was, but now I understand exactly how someone could say power scaling is a cop out.

[@AntIzSo]

You're toooo underrated

[@bomboid]

I love how this works exactly like scientific field lol

[@EuphoricIntentions]

The funny thing is, quantifying things up to the speed of light through mass and energy. Though I would think that if you were to edge into the quantification of things that approach the speed of light, it would probably be more of a debate of the cannons ability to describe something. Then when we are comparing a characters/cannons ability to describe something, if there isn’t agreeance, then have they failed to describe light? I think though this may seem paradoxical, the ability to come to terms would exhibit a cannons ability to navigate the structure of things that are unchangeable, which would in turn be the other side of the equation of power scaling to balance itself out. Basically just using e=mc^2 because I find it fitting for most things in life if you can describe them as being three separate expressions.

[@endervanquish100]

am just getting into powerscaling and debating and this video is very informative. You deserve way more subs than u have. ^.^

[@TuesdaysArt]

I want to try powerscaling my characters for my story (I pride myself on being a good story architect), so this series will be pretty useful!

[@Balazs1102_]

What did you get, how strong are they?

[@shwingcrimson8202]

@@Balazs1102_ he might not be done even as im typing this. If he’s like cross scaling every character to make sure it’s completely consistent, it might take years depending on how specific he’s being with it

[@Balazs1102_]

@@shwingcrimson8202 That's gotta be way too much effort for a relatively minor thing. Doing it for years. You could have the best, most consistent powerscaling known to fiction, and nobody would read it if the story is crap Poin is, you have to know how much time is worth investing in a thing

[@berjoxhn5142]

powerscaling should be the last thing you think about for a story

[@lordcaprisunthe2nd]

@@berjoxhn5142I agree

[@TheHedgememe]

Friend sent me this video because I wanted to know how powerful a character I liked was Still not quite sure where I'd place him, but this video is great! Very informative!

[@Bigsmoke-tn3wf]

Great video,definitely informative and is overall a great start for people who want to get in powerscaling

[@mouslimjaber3016]

So basically what I understand from this is that you could only scale characters mainly throughout feats and statements by you have to be specific about what these "feats" or what these "statements" statements help give context to both of them and you HAVE to use inverse scaling for each other when comparing two from different verses

[@michaelkiker6912]

I’m so glad I found this I’ve been trying to start for a while

[@mikhaelgribkov4117]

Ey, hey there, Mineta's quirk is really decent and allows good speed boost and defense with staggering.

[@convergencechannel]

My issue with these arguments is that they depend on scaling rules that the authors themselves have inconsistently applied. You can't really scale a character where the author is just going to release a new issue where the scale no longer makes sense. Who wins just depends on what the author wants, usually.

[@sebastiansandoval4861]

This

[@reflex9238]

You can argue about inconsistencies all you want, that’s really just terrible writing on the author’s part, but has nothing to do with the scaling itself.

[@sebastiansandoval4861]

@@reflex9238 i agree but i would argue scaling inconsistent characters is a bit pointless. Maybe not but i personally find it boring

[@reflex9238]

@@sebastiansandoval4861 You can get around it via of course saying that its an outliner, and wouldn't be consistent with most of the feats shown, so normally people tend to use consistent feats, however of course you can give the hypothetical when using these sort of inconsistent feats if someone is deciding to use them.

[@bananamerchant6387]

@@reflex9238 Sorry but no. You can't separate the writer from their characters and extrapolate their power because you desperately powerscale.

[@datkingwukong6278]

This man spittin fact 🔥🔥🔥

[@dr4cula472]

Your quality is watt above your channel size.

[@anonsfunfactory6993]

That debate in the beginning is so aggressive for no reason 😂💀

[@Florian-r8v]

Best Explanation ever👑

[@princelamar1735]

About your point with kefla, her strength actually does make since in the context of the story. This is because dragon ball has shown numerous times that a mortal can surpass a god in power. Just because goku has god ki doesn't mean he should one shot any mortal he faces(nor has dbs tried to convey that). Plus we already know that fusion multiplies the power of two characters many times over their total output. So the fact that Kefla is made up of two characters that have showed strong abilities makes it so that she can contend with god goku.

[@surfbone]

You see, what you did just there is power scaling. You took the story and analyzed it to where Kefla being that strong can make sense in the context of the narrative. Which is why it's such a great form of narrative analysis. However the reason I brought Kefla specifically was because it was an popular instance where power scalers were being called apologists for the series.

[@princelamar1735]

Surfbone thanks for your reply. Btw I made a post on reddit recently that explains why Kale and Caulifla were great villians for goku in the tournament of power. The post itself is called "kale and caulifla are great antagonists" (you'll find it if you type the title in Google) if your interested please give it a read and tell me what you think (any critique will be appreciated).

[@huh8679]

nice i’ll be scaling myself to literally unkillable now

[@CDHBeastSage]

U need more subs tbh

[@thememorablenovelist5876]

damn I've been looking for a guide on power scalling

[@DS-po6zd]

Cool video and editing, keep it up :)

[@ForgottenWorlds100]

That Seth vid was gnarly. 😬

[@An_Average_Turkish]

Thank you a lot!

[@carloadams2611]

I'm subscribed to you now I hope you don't disappoint in the future cuz I like you're videos so far

[@surfbone]

Thanks a lot for the sub, I appreciate that very much! And I don't plan to disappoint considering the amount of videos I have already planned, some already scripted and have been working on the next upcoming video which will be coming soon. So look forward to that!

[@carloadams2611]

@@surfbone I'm excited already ☺🙂

[@lerona.martyr3811]

Nice video man. I would like you to make a video explaining about how to verify the validity statements.

[@surfbone]

I do talk about Statements and their validity a bit in this video in case you missed that. Although I do plan on making a whole video dedicated to that, mainly tackling Author Statements or statements made by people outside the story. So look forward to that!

[@lerona.martyr3811]

@@surfbone Thanks.

[@communitygamer117]

No bad Surfbome

[@Ricanandez420]

The part where you were debating the guy was funny af

[@princelamar1735]

That wasn't surfbone, that was Seth the programmer. Seth is also a power scaler you should check him out

[@morgantreeman4716]

I’ve already made 4 iPhone notes pages on this one video. I have so much to learn my brain is begging for mercy

[@TubeTAG]

I know this video is kind of old and what not. I am also not a part of this subculture, although I have dabbled in the debate of fictional characters here and there for funzies. However, it would seem to me that folks might just be using the term "Power Scaling" instead of "Power Creep" since they may not be aware of this subculture in the first place. "Bad Power Creep" is a critique of the writing, since Power Creep itself is a writing term. And considering "Scaling" and "Creep" both can mean to "progress" (scaling a mountain, for example) it seems like this is a way simpler answer to why folks use that term than them explicitly harshing on your specific subculture. I've noticed a fair amount of victimization and us-vs-them-ism that I guess I don't really understand.

[@novared103gaming3]

Thank you 40 year old man

[@kuphi1243]

I ain’t never watch the two people who debated but They ain’t gotta do my boy like that in the debate tho! 😂

[@cslamar7672]

Thx I’ve been trying to get into power scaling

[@willtaylor6828]

I'm going to binge all your videos to get better

[@THEBEST-yi2rs]

I’m gonna watch this bcuz I’m abt to have a argument with a jean grey stan and I’ve never debated and they seem rly experienced I rly hope this is gonna work

[@jasonlayman3258]

I don’t get how you would find the quantity of something to qualify it

[@rand0mtopg62]

is goji chronic reliable

[@Wanderer3639]

"Quantify reality warping" I would have said, "well we know Heaven and Hell is equal to the universe in size(idk I am pulling their size out of my ass) meaning he has at least universe size reality warping, because he didn't just change it but actively change their nature then we can say that he did a Law manipulation(or a conceptual manipulation?)" Idk if Broly has pulled a universe destruction feat.

[@connorstamps1298]

What I think about when I hear powerscaling: The classic “my dad can beat your dad” but with science, math, and an ungodly amount of toxicity leaking from the cracks in its structure

[@STazTR]

I watch anime for fun but debating seems fun

[@pyrolee17]

Oh yeah. This guy gets it

[@Johnnykugo]

old video, hopefully someone is still checking comments. how do you deal with a statement that introduces a contradiction, and you argue it is a contradiction. but, what if the other person argues it is a retcon?

[@Ichigo-gp9vq]

How to argue against characters with High godly regeneration.

[@hqTheToaster]

May the 4th be with you.

[@commenter232]

people who understood the technical definition better than the simple one ⬇

[@damagedtherock6673]

the way seth shut that dude down is the same way i do it, but they arent usally as calm as this dude is all ima say

[@mylesnya]

great video!

[@oreliic3987]

u see, when im debating i always pop in some jokes here in there so that when i get debunked or some shit i can just be like: “fuck- anyways-“

[@rkraiem100]

I appologize ahead of time for the long comment. I'd appriciate a response if you have a second. SOLID VIDEO!!! You basically took all the fundemental ideas of power scaling that I was already aware of from reading other's debates and string it together into a cohesive video that I can use as a reference when debating others. I have a question on a debate I'm active in. I debate sword art online kirito vs yuuki frequently. SAO is very tricky to scale bc most of the feats don't have easy paralels to anything in the real world, nor could they be compared against other canonical feats. Add to that an issue where the characters jump to different VR games frequently and it's been explicitly stated and even demonstrated canonically that each VR game operates under fundementally different balance and physics (a good paralel would be comparing a vs where the universe is the size of a planet to a vs where the universe is the size of our universe). The issue here is that because it's a video game, their avatars scale to their respective universe resulting in a character being able to react to bullets only with foresight of where they come from to that same character reacting to light speed with no indication on timing or direction. Am I wrong to say it's therefore impossible to directly compare characters between games because no scaling methodology can be used with any semblance of accuracy? In order to solve this I came up with something called OSS scaling which I think is pretty accurate in concept but the results seem too absurd to be accurate. In 1 of the games there is a game mechanic called OSSs which allows the characters to create a custom special move if they can perform a custom series of sword swings under very specific and difficult conditions. Because of said restrictions, the maximum combo of the OSS and the amount of grinding it takes to make it in my belief could be used to measure kirito against yuuki. To be brief, kirito made a 6 hit combo OSS in 2 months while Yuuki created an 11 hit combo OSS on her first attempt, and there is reason to believe she could have done better but was simply trying to make something impressive quickly to attract attention. It's also heavily implied that OSS difficulty scales exponentially and that a single hit combo increase represents an exponential increase in difficultly. After running the numbers, that would put Yuuki thousands of times faster and more consistent than kirito even without factoring exponential difficulty. Even a modest exponential curve would put it in the tens of thousands. Her strength is backed up by character and author statements and direct fights, and this idea of her being capable of system level attacks on demand is backed up in a fight with a feat of her's parrying a sword skill by the fastest player in the game in unfavorable conditions, however that number just seems absurd to me and I have no idea how to relay it to my viewers for the video I'm making in a way that they will actually take it seriously. What do you think? Thanks for your time.

[@anime_world6684]

I guess I also got crossverse scaling down

[@zionicc]

Amazing video but I won’t tolerate the mineta slander

[@surfbone]

LMAO

[@kingofkings9391]

@@surfbone bro can you explain gag characters in cross verses battles in detailed please 🙏

[@surfbone]

@@kingofkings9391 idk what there is to explain, you would just scale there abilities like you would any other character. Regardless if it's gag or not

[@kingofkings9391]

@@surfbone okay then what is a neutral verse?

[@princelamar1735]

19:30 I just thought about something about your ruler example. When people say that a series has bad power scaling they are talking about the inconsistent measurements of the house itself instead of blaming the "ruler". So if a series contradicts its own scaling rules then what's wrong with pointing out the bad " measurements" of the house itself(instead of blaming the ruler)? I think that's what the term "bad power scaling" should mean or am I mistaken?

[@surfbone]

What I'm getting at is that power scaling and writing are NOT the same thing; and a lot of people back then and some still today don't understand that. Because Power Scaling is a form of narrative analysis and not a form of writing. As author can use it to help him better write and establish a consistency within their series (heck, Toriyama literally says that about the Daizenshu) but it's often used by fans to help better interpret their work. "Bad Power Scaling" would mainly apply to a fan who misinterprets the scaling of a verse. Or in case of the ruler example, the man that uses the rule improperly or measures the house incorrectly while attempting to use the ruler. Because just like the Ruler, Power Scaling is a TOOL we use to help better interpret someone else's work. You should blame the MAN that used the ruler (a fan trying to power scale) and the ARCHITECT (the author) as they are fallible. So if you find something wrong with how a series is explaining the scaling of their own characters, you shouldn't just point fingers and say "It's because of Power scaling." You should point out what's wrong with the writing. Because as I said eariler, Power scaling is form of analyzing a narrative, and not a form of writing.

[@princelamar1735]

@@surfbone Now I get it, my bad.

[@robiihsan4788]

@@surfbone so powerscalling is so important right

[@thyholynoodle6282]

I mean if you compare two characters from different fictions, you have to have a setting if you want to get anywhere or else nothing you say matters because without those assertions you can write the story any way you want so the winner then become ambiguous.

[@rgbtato]

Great video.

[@DontCopyMyFlow337]

I’ve been trying to scale Ohio Final boss with his feats ty for this video

[@puppycide]

Chair level 🗿

[@TheKeyToLive]

hey how much power does a character have when he can destrpy over 3 million universes in one fully powered hit that he can do many times

[@surfbone]

The power to destroy 3 million universes in one shot Lol

[@cellomovious_former]

What is this question? if your talking about what tier that feat is, it would be multiversal.

[@TRSHLupe]

Underrated asf

[@anime_world6684]

I guess I got inverse scaling down

[@Yang.Destiny]

4:45 i swear this is my nightmare 😭 if someday im in debate and bug like this for seconds im gonna feel so ashamed

[@jshosho1250]

I was tryna see what's higher than stuff

[@Catchstrays]

Ok i understand a lot now

[@jeromelancashire3278]

8:25 So another example would be Applejack is faster than Rainbow Dash because she can keep pace with Pinkie Pie.

[@__B__L__A__N__K__]

please do a saitama vs goku power scaling vid

[@thigas2671]

Tell me some sites to search for scan/scale characters

[@Mr.Zilla2021]

The name vecheeto is absolutely hilarious to me

[@mohammedteladia312]

Great video , though when will you're what are haxes video come out ?

[@surfbone]

It might be a while due to a couple videos being scheduled to come before the "What are Hax?" video As those videos will help make it much easier to understand. But I'll do my best to get it out as soon as I can!

[@mohammedteladia312]

@@surfbone thanks , I really appreciate you replying, if its not too much trouble, what are you working on next ?

[@surfbone]

@@mohammedteladia312 I'm currently working at least 2 videos. One is delving into the differences between the different types of Speed such as Combat, Reaction and Travel Speed. The other is talking about Gag Characters and how they work in power scaling. Mainly tackling their supposed "I'm not capable of being beaten" trait.

[@mohammedteladia312]

@@surfbone thanks, good luck with your videos .

[@jyy.5x386]

What’s the name of a debate between Seth and Cheetos😂😂

[@youniques1316]

Great video! Only I didn't understand the part about inverse scaling. A > B > C wouldnt give us any information that is valid, because C can counter A.

[@tzhed5487]

what do you think of IdeaShock's scaling

[@jasomega2446]

3:47 I see.

[@jasomega2446]

6:04

[@jasomega2446]

6:42

[@jasomega2446]

10:14

[@jasomega2446]

11:13

[@jasomega2446]

11:59

[@billerpjc274]

This is nice .

[@shieldedgaming1589]

I need some explaining cause I wanna power scale the team fortress two characters

[@MrChief_223]

They are boundless they have no bounds they solo every verse in fiction In base with 0.001 power even the strongest scps

[@thezapher]

@@MrChief_223 gotta be joking

[@gloriawangui5669]

​@@MrChief_223 Stfú dum kid

[@DavidTheEpic871]

IM OMNIPRESENT

[@jirkavrana7789]

I'm more than omnipresent

[@biki_edits]

I had a question am I right in saying Thanos with ig >> Kratos as just one stone is complex multi or higher

[@otherpurpose7005]

I remember debating with a guy about Goku and Saitama where I was on Goku's side and the other guy was on Saitama's side and the guy was just using bad writing as an excuse to why Goku loses(Like Goku getting hit by a laser gun,Goku getting hurt while getting thrown on 100fts)And oh it was bloody frustrating so I just left and I still hate to debate with such people because they lack power scaling knowledge and just start hating and downplaying characters on the excuse of bad writing

[@surfbone]

I understand that pain, no worries man

[@otherpurpose7005]

@@surfbone Thanks man I really appreciate it

[@MrChief_223]

Fr I hate that too

[@shadowwe3345]

So where does Archie Sonic scale?

[@locdogg86]

That was a stupid debate tactic tho. If you can tear the fabric of reality then u shouldn’t have to quantify it. It’s like quantify how much force it took for frieza to blow up a planet to prove he can beat Donald trump.

[@WomanSlayer69420]

It's something that doesn't matter in most fictional settings.

[@JuwanBuchanan]

Bruh that Seth vs Vacheeto was so cringe. If he wanted to prove his point on Janemba being stronger than Broly he could had just went with the easier route of saying that he was stronger than SSJ3 Goku, who Goku in himself should be way stronger than Broly in his SSJ3 form at that point for Dragonball inverse standards.

[@princelamar1735]

Ah but seths argument in the “broly wars” video was that the movie’s don’t scale to each other or the anime. You should watch it mate, he brought up pretty convincing arguments for broly being the strongest(in regards to Z and the movies).

[@helioshd6794]

Nice vid.Do more videos about dc in the future please🙏

[@XueHuePiaoPiaoBeiFengXiaoXiao]

my Brain Exploded

[@disorderandregression9278]

While I'm not against the idea of powerscaling characters as it can both provide useful information to analyse a series' writing and also be fun sometimes (You have no idea how much I laughed when the calculations pointed out that Mercury from RWBY could withstand 100 times the gravitational force of the Sun without getting squashed by the force of his own legs pulling out of the way of a lightning), I do not really like the use of it for Versus debating, which is what most powerscalers tend to do with such information anyway. In fact, I don't like the idea of doing versus debates on itself. While in theory these might be fun, in reality they usually quickly devolve into statblock checks that result into one sided curbstomps. They are usually unfun to me because of that. "This character is ranked X. This other character is Y. The end". That's usually how it goes most of the time. Sometimes a bit of "outhaxing" here and there or taking into consideration just a few more stats, but that's about it. I have yet to see a "versus" debate that goes more for the side of strategy and explores how many scenarios could play out in different ways. Wouldn't be as much of a versus batle as much as a "what if" discussion, and it would be more common in war scenarios rather than 1v1s, but still...

[@Chikara_Ketsugo]

Came back so I could relearn, but why you got a cuties image for this video 😭

[@zen9923]

Learning how to power scale so I can powerscale my own OCs lmfao

[@manganerd_69]

Whats ur oc's name?

[@EM38101]

What is an outerverse?

[@surfbone]

Check out my Dimensional Tiering video for more info

[@mosanity]

If powerscaling = ruler then does that mean powerscaler = ruling?