What is Secret of the Kingdom in Mark's Gospel?

[@MythVisionPodcast]

This course was absolutely amazing! I can't wait to see you there March 5th Dr. Tabor.

[@kellydavid7408]

Started course 2 days ago, still on lecture 1. Reading and trying to absorb everything I can. Thank you for offering this course Dr. Tabor.

[@feeltheforce10]

What did you think to the course ?

[@shirleysmith9421]

If one is spiritually grown this person will understand personally this beautiful message! ❤❤❤😂

[@tayrowell]

Dr. Tabor and Derek at MythVision continue to bring the highest-level of critical scholarship that you can find - the type you'd get in graduate courses at our best universities. Thanks!!!!

[@KECarter]

I will bless you for being interested in the text and I will ask God to give you wisdom, knowledge, and peace.

[@MidlifeCrisis82]

Mark is definitely my favorite gospel.

[@gregproefrock4114]

So clear and darn interesting. Thank you

[@belieflibrary]

A verse that always confused me when I was a Christian! And now it makes sense. 😌

[@nicolawebb6025]

Signed up and really thrilled to be able to do this. Just need to set aside enough time. Can't wait for the Q&A

[@willemvo7296]

being lost is a part of the searching heart :)

[@svemory]

'Secrets' are a theme in Mark - I see an almost proto-gnostic emphasis upon Mystery in Mark...of the canonical gospels, Mark and John are the thing.

[@mongoharry]

After thinking and philosophizing about Christianity for most of my life, I went ahead and actually read Mark in one sitting. It's ridiculous that 2,000 years ago God came down and spent half his time on Earth casting out what he thought were "demons". This is clearly a literary product of an ancient world that has much less relevance for us today than it gets credit for.

[@joecurran2811]

100. It's quite a sick text too, everyone laughing at Jesus when he's dying.

[@praveenkumar-yo1xg]

Yeah because he has to save you from your sins. I pray Jesus to fill your heart

[@rscotthudson1959]

Regarding Dr. Tabor's comments at 5:23 ; Mathew 13:15 reads - "Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should a heal them." This seems to be the same message as in Mark 4:12. So, is it actually the case that Matthew "takes this out?"

[@tookie36]

And Jesus is quoting Isaiah. So he is definitely not saying “I don’t want to save people” 😂

[@marshalldarcy7423]

The Kingdom is within and the secret stays a secret until one finds or has had revealed the Kingdom within.

[@KECarter]

The kingdom is contained within your name.

[@marshalldarcy7423]

@@KECarter We assume you are talking about the "Unspeakable name of God".

[@lisabenoit5147]

@ Marshall D'Arcy ... please explain what you mean by the secret stays a secret UNTIL it's revealed.

[@marshalldarcy7423]

@@lisabenoit5147 The idea of a "Secret" is clearly not understood by "Tabor" or "Bart" or others. We all have a spark of divinity within. This is a secret from most of us as we look to externals for our "daily bread". This spark is "Knowable" ie direct experience however "Knowing" this secret is not very easy and may require much effort and discipline and even "40 days and 40 nights". "Knowing" this secret has been called "enlightenment."

[@lisabenoit5147]

@@marshalldarcy7423 - I appreciate the response. We all have an understanding of some kind and it's WHY I ask for clarifications. God entrusts revelation to each of [US] and we must go back to HIM, God in order to understand it. He reveals it to us in its proper [time]. God is Eternal and its all 'present' in His realm but to us, it FEELS [ timed]. There's a "readiness" that each of us need to have to be able to GRASP meaning. This is how I'd 'describe' [secret]. It's not yet ready to be revealed...until it's READY to be revealed. The question is [ who, what] is [IT]. GOD says, [ ASK, SEEK and Knock]. He will SEE when we are READY to understand more ...

[@mattandkim17]

Looking forward to March 5th!

[@Zulutime44]

Once the unwashed have "turned and forgiven", they will not only perceive the meaning of the Lord's parables, but because of their structure, they are tailormade for preservation via oral tradition.

[@russelldavis4938]

Whatever the meaning of Mark 4: 10-12, we know , by reading 4:1, Jesus did not seek to exclude any person who wanted to understand. Teaching in parables is a device used to teach those who cannot comprehend straight talk. Jesus tells the disciples they have been given the secret of the kingdom directly but how can they expect to teach the multitude, who can only learn in parables, if they don't understand themselves. Jesus says , if you disciples can't understand them (parables) how can you teach the multitudes through parables. If you (the disciples) cannot understand then the consequences are verse 12, that seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand, lest they may turn, and the sins may be forgiven them.’ Basically the disciples fail to convert people if they do not know the meaning of the parables through which verse 11 says, all things are done.

[@owenshaw7000]

I was NEVER notified of the date of the WEBINAR. Wasted my money.

[@russelldavis4938]

To answer Mark 4: 10-12, try Matthew 13:10-17. It does have the same story and goes on to explain what Mark says. Even if we take just Mark, we can't assume his story had a completely different answer than Matthew's.

[@peterhook2258]

Thats genius and also more applicable to daily life for the "pure in heart". Wow. It's like psychology but..only for the elite. Crazy

[@justajo2]

This is why Mark ends his Jesus story so abruptly with a short summary (compared to the other gospels) of what happened in the next few days after the resurrection. Mark is asking his readers, "OK... now, do YOU get it?" This explains to me why Paul went into Arabia soon after his encounter with the risen Jesus: he wanted to be taught by Jesus only. "No man taught me," Paul declares, so as to have the same experience that the original 12 had. And then to verify if he "got it", presented himself to Peter for examination. Peter was satisfied that Paul had indeed been taught these "secrets" by Jesus.

[@mattandkim17]

I suppose the secret of the kingdom is that Jesus is the messiah whose mission is to suffer and die, which would have been contrary to what first century Jews were expecting from the messiah.

[@honorahs.3262]

What if you are only hearing about this course afterwards and missed this course? Can you take it at a reduced cost as you are not able to be a part of the one of the main features, the live zoom?

[@zyxmyk]

that lest they be forgiven line reminds me of a line in the book of james where he says, "This is bad news for you rich." I think they may have wanted the selfish rich to be punished. i think that's just the way they were. they weren't modern people and they identified totally with the poor, the have-nots. i took the course and I don't remember this question ever being answered--why did he want some people to not be forgiven. i still don't know what the answer to that question was supposed to be.

[@steveallenmashburn8815]

I Signed up but have not gotten a invitation to the March 5 zoom meeting

[@Theprofessorator]

I still think that when Peter calls Jesus "good" and Jesus asks, "Why do you think I'm good...?" Jesus is referring to himself as a "bad rabbi," because his disciples clearly aren't learning anything in Mark. Even all the way to his grave, they're still asking him, "So who's the mightiest again?" I wouldn't feel like a very "good" teacher either.

[@ayanatetzlaff]

interesting take!

[@michellesmith5436]

Jesus then says there is none good but one, that is God. Pretty sure it doesn't have to do with him lacking teaching skills.

[@Theprofessorator]

@@michellesmith5436 is God a good teacher? If so it still fits fine.

[@davekearney1944]

If his parables were intended to be enigmatic, he wasn't much of a writer. They are about equal to the Aesop's fables we read and understood in public school. That is, unless I have some sort of spiritual power that grants me the power of understanding and that is highly unlikely.

[@iPUB_org]

Tabor’s analysis of the Isaiah quote in Mk 4 is fatally flawed in this instance: 1st, he’s wrong on facts: Matthew & John also include the forgiveness/healing clause from Isaiah 6, with Matthew actually presenting MORE of the entire quote than Mark. 2nd, On what basis does one conclude that Luke is denying the second half of a quote he could have excluded altogether? Why include it at all? 3rd, Mk 1.4 says JB’s baptism of repentance is “for forgiveness of sins.” This builds a way/road for Jesus to come to people, acc. to another Isaiah quote (40.3). 4th, Jesus himself personally forgives a man his sins in Mk 2.10 in response to faith. 5th, The Isaiah quote w/i Isaiah itself is describing a RESPONSE by God to those who have previously refused/rejected God. It’s not denying that God wants deliverance for people and Isaiah is clear that God laments Israel’s rejection of him. That’s why this quote is found in Mk 4 AFTER 2.7, 3.6, & 3.22. Be sure to read the text for yourself and scrutinize carefully even scholar's claims about it.

[@linnhudson4908]

I can tell you, it's historical. The other 3 are present active prophetic.

[@NotThibodaux]

Why are you assuming Matthew and Luke are using Mark's writings to build their writings? Each could have been writing their stories as each experienced and remembered their own accounts in their walk with Jesus.

[@tookie36]

Bc they have a word for word account for the same stories. That being said. Mathew and Luke have their own narratives and their own unique additions which shouldn’t discredit them from being taken seriously

[@ignacioperez7612]

Was it 2 chronicles 7;14

[@Gabriel-ServantOfGod]

I read this gospel the other day, and yeah this came out to me quite interestingly... People may think it's harsh, but they forget that if God had willed, he would have guided everyone to faith and paradise. Being logical then, that idea of "God is love" Christians all the time preach from John, is just nonsensical... To begin with, God is not a human emotion, as love is. Secondly, God is fair with the people, you will find all those who got their heart sealed, did something out of their own free will to deserve that punishment. In the OT God sends a "lying" spirit to Saul if i'm not mistaken, because he trangressed? Be coherent... I personally follow the Qur'an, and i see it coherent with what came before it, and Mark is a perfect example, i don't see it confirming Paul or the Trinitarian "God is love" theology modern Christians push... at all... they made that up!! Why would God confirm made up stuff? I mean, he may inspire ideas to common men, some could argue some philosofers either got ideas from scripture or were inspired by God directly, then it is no surprise that gets confirmed, and i do believe this, i do believe in a less "epic" if you will, form of inspiration, that can happen today to any of us, and does not make us prophets nor anything... Then if the books confirms that, i have no issue, i know some might, well that's then a matter of ambiguity and you should seek other ways to prove the scripture... Personally if i'm unsure about something, then i try to get back to what i'm sure about, to the basics. So to any believer researcher, that's my advice. Don't lose the rock, least your home falls when calamity strikes. And always seek the truth, that is what God ordained, he did not give us intellect for no reason, we are meant to use it ;) (just don't confuse assuming others are fooled and you aren't with being smart... as many atheists do...) Peace to the believers.

[@thomasrhodes5013]

"Antiquities of the Jews", by Flavius Josephus has made mention that Solomen also employed parable as an oratorical device. So, Jesus used this device as a secret club handshake. Is Jesus selecting his administrative cohort? If that is the case the fact may go a long way towards the gross inequity of life in the world and beyond. Fairness is such a cumbersome exercise.

[@subdrvr]

Why do you say it is forgotten?

[@ronashman8463]

Obviously, because the gospel of Mark got left out of the Bible 🙄. Oh wait... I just read it in my Bible. Tabor, you are confusing us.

[@Robert_L_Peters]

Interestingly, reading Paul you would have to assume that he either isn't familiar with Jesus' parables, or doesn't think they matter. Recently I actually heard the suggestion that the messages of Jesus and Paul were intentionally different, because Jesus was for the Jews and Paul was for everyone else. I think they were different because Paul was a charlatan

[@Robert_L_Peters]

@Viking Spirit while all of that is interesting, I'm more concerned with: Do Paul's writings/beliefs in any way reflect those of Jesus/his earliest followers? If not, why should we care about them? I might have missed something, but I think that's about it.

[@Robert_L_Peters]

@Viking Spirit I'm with you on the second part. Are you sure about the first part?

[@Robert_L_Peters]

@Viking Spirit that sounds right. My understanding, if it wasn't already clear, is that subsequent disciples of Paul ended up dominating the 'jesus' movement, eventually deciding which books made it into the canon. They were much more interested in 'paul's gospel' than 'the gospel.'

[@Robert_L_Peters]

@Viking SpiritI don't know so much about that, but one has to wonder where he got all that stuff...

[@donalddotson-cw5ll]

Whoever was the real author of mark, and all of the other gospels of the entire JUDEO-CHRISTIAN BIBLE definitely was in the many different types of pagan GODS Religious temples priesthoods, or Greek, Roman, Egyptian, persian, etc authorities governments heirarchical system. Because those were the only types of people that had the formal higher education training to be able to write the classical literary works at that time period in history. Education was expensive. And only for the well connected circles of the selected elites priesthood, and ruling families royal bloodlines, and their interconnected circle of the wealthiest banking/trading merchants.

[@evropej]

Jesus spoke in parables because people who seek the truth will look for answer for the parables which are all in the prophecies. He spoke in parables to find out who was using their head for divine things and who were brainwashed by religion. It was a test to see if they could actually hear what he was saying or were they blinded by religion. Isaac Newton says the same thing in his writings. So, basically, he was seeing who were under the curse or spell of religion and who were actually spiritually free. And the truth, when you seek it, will set you free! FYI the kingdom of God is those who walk in the commandments of God! They know who they are! They can see the light because they are from the light, the truth. In their spiritual city of jarusalem, aka your soul, reside the spirit of God and along with all those who have lived and have died.

[@jaredchilders3781]

If he knows the future but isn't the controller of it, he would say, don't tell them I'm the Christ because they are going to say he is, when he was never called by his name, Jesus, in the Old Testament. The Lord of Host, is named by his birthed name in Genesis. The son of God, Jesus, talks about the son of man, named by his name in Genesis, in the gospels.

[@goneprivate2714]

Turn again? I believe Jesus knows their repentance wasn't deep enough, even if they did repent. The key therefore is to turn again and keep on doing that until you get your breakthrough into the kingdom. The violent take it by force. I got the key revelation in His mention about the judges who would be raised up in the other gospel. Mark wasn't part of it, and I had to go back to Job, Jonah, Neh. 9 and Dan. 9 with the Hand of God and being baptized in the cloud on the lunar eclispe Turn again event found in Joel.

[@clarice1001nights]

Emanuel: el=God Emanu: Wiith (amoung) "us"=understood. The key to understanding Mark is in Yesuha's name. This can be very clearly understood as the principle of "self-evidence". The evidence is self-presenting or "self-evident". If you do not understand Jesus name and YHVH#s you can not understand "I am-that I am" either. God is self-evident.

[@donalddotson-cw5ll]

I love how Jesus supposedly loves everyone that is willing to follow his commandments. And follow in the way of his own supposedly blameless pure loving example footsteps. But according to the writers that actually wrote the books that are in the bible itself. Say that Jesus taught in parables because he didn't want us to be able to easily understand his parables teachings. Because it would allow us to be able to be saved. And be admitted into the new heavenly home. If Jesus and GOD really does love us so much, then why would Jesus and GOD not want us to clearly/easily understand how to get to go to heaven. Then inspires/leaves us a book called the bible that takes a highest college level of education thought processes/analytical skills prowess. AKA PhD holding professors. To be able to even start to psychiatrically scientifically analyze the bible to even be able to start to figure out its riddles. That contains 66 different specially selected, so called words inspired by the true GOD that created the very existence itself that we're existing in. But yet knowing that it wasn't even permitted for common people to be able to be taught how to be able to learn how to read or write in antiquity. And was punishable by death if you taught the mysteries schools teachings to anyone else that wasn't chosen to be initiated into the mysteries schools. Therefore meaning if you are poor, and can't read and fully understand everything about jesuses parables teachings as good as a professionally trained college teacher ourselves. Then we're not worthy of being saved at all. And being joyfully invited into the new heavenly peaceful blissful new Jerusalem eternity. In reality These PhD professors of the Divinity training programs can't even fully agree amongst themselves about the very diverse history of the bible. Let alone its eternal rewards or punishment programs. In essence, meaning that all of us naively uneducated poorest, greatly suffering people deserve to go to hell to be horribly punished for eternity. Even now if we poor people don't have enough $ to pay for the chances to be taught by professionally trained, licensed PhD divinity schools professors. Then us and all of our babies still deserve to be horribly punished, and sadisticly tortured for eternity. But yet " GOD AND JESUS LOVES US ". What kind of loving eternal GOD supposedly takes immense pleasure in non chalantly allowing, watching its beloved created creatures to not be able to easily figure out how to keep from going to hell for eternity. Who really wrote the books of the Judeo-Christian bible? What was their intentions? HOW COULD WE REPENT? IF WE COULDN'T, OR CAN'T EVEN READ VERY WELL? To at least be able to try to figure out what GOD wants us to do while we're alive. Apparently If us and our babies can't afford an education, then we're worthy of going to a terribly punishing flaming hell for eternity. The final versions of the English language bible that we have today, is a totally made up version of Jesuses true life and teachings. The bible doesn't even have the real stories about Jesuses actual family members. That knew him personally for all of his life. Or some of the other earliest closest associates that traveled with him on his teaching mission. Jesus was a Jew/Jewish rabbi/raboni spiritual teacher. The PhD scholars point out that jesuses own family members didn't think that Jesus was a GOD. They considered him to be a wise human teacher/councilor of how we should at least try to treat each other, and each others babies. Instead of the constant evilness and harm that he saw going on all around the various cultures in the world at that time. Humans were slaughtering each other over almost any types of reasons everywhere, at that time in history. And we still are. Christian believers are still currently addicted to the spiritual messages about the bible, that the major Christian church leaders in the world are still telling us what, how, who, which way that we must believe in. And how we're supposed to act in our lives. Unless Christians become brave enough to become inquisitively sceptically, critically, analytical evaluators of what the PhD trained bible scholars are saying about the bible. Then they'll continue to be easily mislead by the major churches pastors, Popes, preachers, etc. P. s. They want you to keep sending your $ to them. I wonder why?

[@tookie36]

Your criticisms are valid and stem from an internal source of truth. We humans try to line up that gifted internal truth to the “outside” world. The church surely has corrupted the message. As it does time after time in the Bible. But there is a danger in this knowledge. Mark wants people to know but is smart enough not to say it out loud. Jesus was crucified for it. Adam and Eve were driven out of the garden when they took this knowledge. But it’s undeniable. And we shouldn’t be caught up in false worlds for too long. We know temporary pleasures create more suffering than joy yet we trick ourselves into believing otherwise. I think Vedanta systematizes everything the best. Shout out Swami Sarvapriyananda. I don’t think atheists are malicious but they definitely are wrong and overstep their own use of logic and reason

[@Peter-gb5kr]

Why did these men all die these tragic deaths preaching Jesus as the Son of God. Are you going to say they were all in on a plot to promote Jesus that they would all be willing to die for Him.

[@k.arlanebel6732]

Mark does not say that the 'inner circle" never get it. He deliberately and brilliantly projects this question into the unrecorded future at Galilee where they will meet after the resurrection. The implication is that they can't or won't really get it until the reality of the resurrection is upon them because it is a reality that ordinary human consciousness can't process and is a reality into which they will have to follow him, that is, they too will have to lay down their lives for the Kingdom. And by the way, Mark does not say that everyone totally abandoned him. He says that Mary Magdalene and Mary, the mother of James (and Jesus), are watching the crucifixion. And they also go to the tomb. Mark, unlike James Tabor, is a believer and preacher of the Gospel. Mark's Gospel is as profound and apocalyptic and "mysterious" as that of John.

[@todradmaker4297]

Mark's Gospel may be as profound as John's, but the Jesus of Mark is very different from the Jesus of John.

[@jasond3885]

@@todradmaker4297 That is not a contradiction. Jesus gives many examples of what the Kingdom is "like" - because how else do you describe something of which you have no direct experience? The entire Bible is talking about Jesus, in one sense or another. And we still can't fathom it fully - because it is teaching us stuff beyond our ken. Soon the Key to understanding will come ...

[@k.arlanebel6732]

@@todradmaker4297 No, he is not. Do you want to discuss it or leave it as is? Are you a follower of Jesus or of James Tabor?

[@todradmaker4297]

@@jasond3885 I believe that one can find anything they want to see in the Bible. If you have found God through its words then that is a beautiful thing. I have the liberal view that there are multiple paths to the truth. However, if you should happen to lose faith in your holy book in the future, please remember not to blame it on God; far too many throw out the baby with the bath water. - peace & love

[@todradmaker4297]

@@k.arlanebel6732 Perhaps I should have said that Mark and John have a different perspective of Jesus. One example would be the nature of Jesus' divinity. Which also happened to be a question of the early church until they settled it at the 1st Counsil of Nicaea in 325 A.D. While John has Jesus as the Word from the beginning of time and Mathew & Luke have him born the saviour at his birth in Bethlehem, Mark starts him off after his baptism with a voice from heaven telling him " Thou art my beloved son". ...and to answer your last question: I listen and learn from both Jesus and James Tabor but I follow only one God.

[@anonymousbosch9692]

If Jesus didn't speak in parables and those responsible for the crucifixion turned to Him and repented instead of rejecting Him then the crucifixion doesn't happen. Jesus fled when an attempt was made to make Him king. Why would He do that? If He allowed Himself to become a king what are the odds He is still crucified? The crucifixion requires rejection. Repentance, redemption and kingship come after the cross. Everything in it's proper season.

[@noahheninger]

The secret is that Jesus is God incarnate.

[@stephenbastasch7893]

Not according to any Gospel, including John's, or any Pauline Epistle.

[@gailtriano1830]

JESUS IS NOT REAL!!

[@ohfft]

Definitely that name jesus is fake

[@noahheninger]

Mark was written as a summary of Matthew. This is all moot.

[@KendraAndTheLaw]

It's obvious that Matthew and Luke copied Mark.

[@Moe-xg6bu]

If you understood you would be proven before you born three times three times over three times seen self as the forth in heaven and five stand as one . If me isn't you said the man not men or when say trust in scholars educated guesser pretenders of understanding deceiving self and others pretenders of known to be All proclaimed three times over before you born

[@Moe-xg6bu]

They only knocked on door

[@Moe-xg6bu]

You play figured it out question none pretend to be known and fools speaking saying nothing impressing others pretend to understand

[@Moe-xg6bu]

Unknown ears deaf blind to what's before your face.