what is she hiding on her phone?! r/AITA

how would you feel if your partner wouldn't let you see their phone? one of the biggest questions in this week's Am I The A**hole, let me know your thoughts x
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[@SLYKM]

"I would charge my daughter full rent plus utilities, that I don't need, and am okay with her living with 3 people a bedroom for now. She should know better than to be homeless. I don't know, I think this strained my relationship with her." That one is wild, and Shaaba didn't even have to consider it, that was one of the fastest "ytah" badge I have ever seen.

[@kiraphobia222]

Yea, imagine asking your daugther, not to pay a third of the rent like she offered, but to pay the whole rent so you can sit back and just make money

[@VelvetVolcano]

Gosh, that second one… why did you even have children? It’s so bizarre to me when parents think they don’t need to play any helpful part in their kids lives just because they’re “adults” now. So shitty. How are they not at all concerned that she’s living in a bad (if she feels a bit unsafe / doesn’t seem to have much space) environment?

[@PensiveOmen]

My mind goes straight to 'how would this mum feel if things went badly?" How would she feel if her daughter was assaulted? Stolen from? Killed? Can't manage to save up and goes from this situation to even worse over time? Was that worth not getting your market value rent? Feel good about denying your child safety now? Gross.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

Most people have children as a result of birth control/sex protection not working. Those parents probably wanted to hook up at a young age, and they had to deal with the consequences.

[@Him_He_Me]

My heart just sank when l heard this one. l think my kids would be heart broken if l didnt try to help them out in some way. Saying no fend for yourself is confirming you dont love or care about them. l would be devastated if my parent said that.

[@RiveroftheWither]

A lot of boomers have this mentality that you have children because it's expected of you and you need someone to take care of you when you're old. Having children for selfish reasons. This is why so many millennials have parental trauma and struggle with life skills. A lot of us were unloved and unwanted, made with the intention of being mini me's that'll care for them in their old age. Having our actual selves constantly disregarded and insulted because we aren't like them. Not taught anything like how to write a resume or how to properly use a knife because "That's the schools job" and then further derided when school didn't teach us, Obviously I'm not saying this is everyone but this is when a lot of the contention from the boomers and millennials come from.

[@amywonderland9297]

2nd one. Your daughter tells you she feels the 5 strangers she’s now forced to live with are “sketchy” and you go “ah well tough shit” then have the nerve to say “I think I’ve impacted my relationship…” DUHHH!!! That “mother” better hope her daughter wasn’t assaulted or something by these sketchy roommates….

[@fandombat3074]

Murdered too. It’s so dangerous. If she living in sketchy neighbourhood there could be a shoot out if your in America

[@angel-ke9vs]

My mother would come and fetch me herself. As soon as I used the word sketchy. 🤣🤣🤣 every time something happens to someone on the news she calls to tell me to be careful.

[@KristiChan1]

There would be no way in hell that my mom or dad would let me stay in a sketchy place like that. They'd be driving over so fast to pick me up, and bring me home with them. What is wrong with some of these parents?

[@Him_He_Me]

😢😢😢

[@KierstenMB]

I love how strongly Shaaba came out against the mum not letting her daughter move home. One thing I like about these videos is how generous she is in her assumptions and how willing she is to look at things from different perspectives. So its really powerful when she comes out and is like NO YOU ARE THE ARSEHOLE

[@maem7462]

Right I was thinking if Shaaba is that quick with the results then you know one of the ppl majorly messed up

[@KierstenMB]

@@maem7462I'm going to go back and watch her other videos to see if any other scenarios provoke such a strong reaction

[@princesskatarina351]

I don't think I've ever seen her react so... hard? Decisively. The mom definitely deserves that large blue ribbon. I couldn't believe what I was hearing Shaaba say. I wouldn't be on speaking terms with my mother either, if she treated me that way.

[@maem7462]

@@KierstenMB I don’t recall there being another strong reaction like that but idk for sure. If you do find another one let me know

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

Oh yeah, absolutely.

[@noa0172]

I feel physically sick when I hear about a parent gaslighting a child. That’s literally what my relationships with my family is like. I honestly wouldn’t feel bad if I recorded one of my parents

[@Lucifersfursona]

I record fights if only to prove to myself that the fights are still weird and inappropriate when I’m not angry later. That and if I ever need to explain to a therapist _why_ these “nothing things” bother me 💀

[@butterflypooo]

Agreed.

[@IsisAlv]

many times my mom would say things with the intention to hurt and later she wouldn't admit it. she said things like we (her children) were all disappointments and that she failed in raising us. at a point, we all distanced ourselves, physically and emotionally, because it's easier to keep distance than try to reason with her. we love her, but it's not something we can live around and keep our sanity

[@butterflypooo]

@@Lucifersfursona a good therapist would never ask for u to prove that to them though. A good therapist would just take ur word for it and not belittle it, nor it’s impact on you

[@renbaker5124]

Same

[@LittleMMCX]

For the recording one, it's actually not illegal to record a conversation without everyone's consent in a domestic situation in the UK. It only becomes illegal if they publish the recording online. Yes, it can get waived in court as evidence, but it can initially get them the help they need in that situation, if it is really bad.

[@clairewallace6149]

This is exactly what I was thinking when she said it was illegal. I was pretty sure that if you are recording a conversation only for your own private use then you do not need need permission.

[@jackriver8385]

I managed to get an abusive person kicked out of a domestic abuse shelter because I recorded her screaming at me. I wasn't allowed to record her, but in situations like that I think it's okay to break rules to keep yourself and people around you safe.

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

In the US people think it’s illegal to record others in public but it’s not. Only in places with a reasonable expectation of privacy. I don’t know where that falls on private arguments but I would say probably not allowed? If it’s a threat to your safety I think that takes precedence.

[@HallucinatingHedgehogs]

@@Jellybeansatduskwell even that is dependent some states have it where only one party needs to consent to being recorded in private situations others have two party consent laws. Just check to see where your state falls on that. Also idk if they’ve changed that law in the last couple of years or not that’s just what I remember.

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

@@HallucinatingHedgehogs yeah I know everything varies wildly

[@francescablacknell4521]

To the mom who wouldn't let her daughter move back in temporarily, claiming 'she needs to learn to be an adult'...she is. By the sounds of it, the daughter is responding to the unpredictable shittyness of adult life in an incredibly mature way, offering to pay rent, giving a timeline of six months with a plan to save money, I don't know how much more 'responsible adult' she wants from her. It seems like all she's asking is for a safer roof over her head that isn't going to cost her a fortune and her potential safety.

[@solsystem1342]

Yep

[@Serenity_yt]

Definitly. The parents could ask for some amount of assisantance from her for food, utilities etc. things that actually cost more with her there (my mum does that/ has done it this way because money is already pretty tight but she always feels incredibly guilty even asking me for that) but to ask for market rate is just such an arsehole move why would any parent do that? It's even more arseholy because it forces her into an absolutly shitty living situation. It's either compromising her safety or her future so her parents can turn a tidy profit of their own daughters struggle.

[@damianfell5112]

14:07 - totally disagree. sometimes you have to do things your literal abuser might find unpleasant. it's not because you want to upset them - you want to protect yourself and to make sure you have an exact recollection of what happened. and yk, oftentimes people like op's mom will shut up and avoid the camera or the recorder like the plague even when they have no trauma connected to that. because now they know they're not alone with their kid, so they won't abuse them it was like this with my mom - she used to be a model parent in front of teachers, but started abusing me as soon as we got home. the only way to stop her was to get my phone and start recording, threatening to send the recording to cps or something so i definitely understand op because i've been in their place. their mother's feelings are obviously important, but they're their own first priority (as it should be)

[@StudlyFudd13]

I know from personal experience if I told someone I was going to record them they would either walk away and ignore me. Or rip the thing out of my hands, destroy it and then continue to abuse me. A private recording would be the only way. And if they did the walk away option they would abuse and harass me about it for months afterwards. Saying how disrespectful I was, how I am just an ungrateful piece of filth, that I should pay them back for everything they did for me, then bankrupt me (they had access to my bank account) and use it as a way to ground me. Shaaba has waaaaay too much faith in people. I will never have a real conversation with my family, they will never believe me, they will never remember what they did to me, and I will never get anywhere. Some people ain't worth it.

[@viviewtreash-production1107]

I thought the same way about it! thanks for putting it in words!

[@Him_He_Me]

You totally want proof that you are not going out of your mind and they are the ones at fault not you!!!

[@GlamourNNail]

As a mom of an adult child, I would absolutely let my child move back home for 6 months while they saved up to move back out again. Especially if she's having to live is such an inhumane situation. Absolutely the AH. Not ok! Their daughter is her daughter for life and will need help occasionally. Be a parent!! I'm 43 and still ask my mom for help too.

[@faithpearlgenied-a5517]

Some parents are just awful. I'm in my late 30s and have been living in my own flat since I was 20 and have always been very independent. But I know if I ever needed to, my mum would let me move back home in a heartbeat at any time for however long I needed because I'm her daughter and she loves me. I'd also let my mum move in with me if she ever needed to! Jesus christ.

[@lapislazarus8899]

I moved back in with my mom, but my dad had just died and she got laid off from her job; she was in a bad place. I cooked and cleaned and kept her company. I don't understand why multigenerational living is frowned upon. Well, I have an idea .. it's all about money. Capitalism.

[@maem7462]

Honestly especially because it was for a reason that they couldn’t control with the rent going up so much so fast. I’m not a mother and I’m no where near ready to have kids atm. If I was in they situation as a parent I would much rather have my kid stay with me than somewhere random especially with ppl they didn’t sketchy. That daughter is an adult and already got some terrible stuff of adulthood she just needs a little help to get back on her feet

[@filltheblank1006]

To me it sounds like the mum is trying to teach the daugher a lesson when she hasn’t done anything wrong, and it is instead her shitty landlord’s fault

[@meghanhenderson8417]

Yeah that story broke my heart. My mom is my best friend and we ask each other for help every freaking day! I’m so blessed to have her. I thank the stars every day that she is my mom because I can count on her for literally anything. The mom in this story doesn’t care about her daughter’s wellbeing if she’s allowing her to live in what she considers to be sketchy circumstances.

[@ShinyAvalon]

There's a distinct possibility that the mother's "trauma" related to being recorded was just something she _tells_ people so they won't record her - that she made it up to avoid consequences. I had an abusive boss tell me that my state was a two-party state (that you needed both parties' permission to record conversations) at a time before the internet could answer such questions. I found out years later that it's a one-party state...and I have no doubt that my abusive boss knew that very well. Frankly, I have little sympathy for a gaslighter in this situation. If you don't want to be recorded, don't gaslight others. You give up your right to not be recorded when you lie (or conveniently "don't remember") what you, yourself, said.

[@viviewtreash-production1107]

I would say you lose the right to decide if you're being recorded when you abuse someone... I mean in every other instance where abuse is recorded it is important evidence and nobody bats an eye that consent is in question but as soon as it is at home with an abuser who obviously harms the other, people come to defend them...

[@ShinyAvalon]

@@viviewtreash-production1107 - I agree.

[@anacsadder]

That's an interesting way of looking at it. I wasn't thinking the mother was lying in the literal sense. The way the mother interpreted OP getting proof of her gaslighting as OP "throwing her words in her face," I think the mother could have some kind of victim-complex thought pattern that makes her think being recorded is traumatic. It's kind of the same thing either way, I guess, it's just if the mother is consciously lying or subconsciously lying. There's definitely something going on in the mother's head that OP is not going to be able to fix on their own with logic and reasoning, though.

[@haventpickedanameyet2527]

For the 3rd one I disagree, they are absolutely nta. I recorded my mom without their knowledge because I knew if I told her I was recording she'd either take my phone or act like how she acts in public, like a perfect mom. She'd lie and wouldn't admit to what she's done (which was what she did, to some extent) and she wouldn't say anything wrong. I wouldn't be able to believe myself if I didn't record it Even if its illegal, I do think recording gaslighters is important not only for proving to them or others that you're not going crazy but also ensuring to yourself that you can trust your memory

[@simonaiota4233]

I agree with you

[@skyofbob]

however, as OP mentioned, her mother has some trauma around being recorded-so it might have been triggering for her. you're right tho i think the mom was a huge AH

[@chriskagamine358]

@@skyofbob The problem is the mom has trauma with being recorded, and the kid has trauma with not being able to believe her own memory due to being gaslit. Based on the reddit post, it seemed like the recording thing was more something that the mom used as an excuse (though I'm probably wrong). In the best case scenario for the mom, I still think the kid is not the asshole, but there is the question of if ends justified the means.

[@skyofbob]

@@chriskagamine358 i can see that, but i just think if you know someone has trauma around something, you should respect it, even if it doesn't end up triggering them.

[@ninaexmachina]

Agreed. It may not always be the best tactical move due to the legality aspect, but I don't think it's morally wrong for them to have recorded their mom in this context for exactly the reason you mentioned. I think maybe it would have been better to confront the mom directly first, IF they didn't already do that, because if you can avoid triggering someone, it's generally best to do so. But the mom ultimately needs to take accountability for her words and actions. I guess I'd say slight ESH if it turned out the op hadn't tried confronting their mom a different way first, and NTA if they had?

[@eireannbullimore7763]

I disagree about the recording. This kid is clearly in an unsafe situation (mentally and emotionally speaking) and sometimes recording conversations is a way to ensure your safety. I get that it's illegal but that is generally waived in court if you've done it to gather evidence of abuse or crimes which is exactly what that kid is going through and they ought to use that recording if they ever feel they need to report the abuse to someone.

[@fenixfox4366]

yes ī agree ī dont like how shaaba just over looked that ī kinda dø take offense

[@eireannbullimore7763]

@@fenixfox4366 No need to be offended, I'm pretty sure she just didn't think about how this might be a full blown domestic abuse case. And she might not know that recording someone to gather evidence isn't illegal.

[@clubafterlife]

@@eireannbullimore7763 In the UK it's legal to record conversations without consent, for personal use. Legality only becomes an issue if you try to release those conversations publicly or sell the recordings. (I know this likely took place in the US but I assume some states have similar laws)

[@verminscum]

@@fenixfox4366 theres literally no need to take offense, it isnt that deep 🤦‍♀️

[@raquelmarcalsantos]

I’d like to add, in the second situation, that it feels like the parent thinks of her daughter moving back home as something her daughter WANTS and would love to maintain for as long as possible, and that is just not true. I’m 31 and I’ve recently had to move back to my mom’s house for financial reasons and let me tell you: it lasted for two months only, during which time I traveled a lot to find a job and deal with my dog’s health, but I DREADED it and I couldn’t wait to move out again when it happened. I love my parents but after you leave their house and have your own, going back there simply doesn’t feel like home anymore. We create our own habits, traditions, routine and just in general lead a different lifestyle, with different rules. It SUCKS to be forced to live with your parents again after you’ve already voluntarily left once. The least a parent can do in that situation is not to make it worse.

[@faithpearlgenied-a5517]

Exactly! I moved out at 20 and am in my late 30s now. I've always been very independent and although I love my mum to bits, I'd hate to have to move back home and would only do that if had no other choice (my mum would let me in a heartbeat) Once you've experienced freedom and independence, the last thing you want to do is move back with parents. However old you get, it'll never be a fully equal when it's a parent/child relationship and it's their house.

[@noaccount2494]

I've literally been homeless before choosing to move back in with my aunt and uncle. Like being totally reliant on them again would kill me

[@rebeccajesse4604]

100%! I love my parents and have great relationships with them but losing my independence is super tough. Plus you know that if the daughter did move back in and pay that high rent the parents still would have expected her to help with chores and do what they say. It’s a hard habit for parents to break, but that is a big difference between paying a landlord and your parents. I paid rent to my parents because that was the only way they could afford to let me live there. They never charged market price, just the extra they would need to help us all love comfortably. This Mom’s plan isn’t teaching her child to be an adult, it’s robbing her of her independence and thinking that’s what adulthood is.

[@tobyatlas6480]

I've been very tempted to record my mom in the past. she's gaslighted me by straight up telling me I hallucinated instances of abuse, blamed me for her alcoholism, made me apologize to my abuser for reporting him. I've never done it, and I can't tell if I regret it or not. I only remember the stuff she did that I repeated to myself over and over, other than that I can't remember most of the conversations we've had. I know its the wrong thing to do, which is why I never did it, but I wish I had proof of some of the shit she's pulled.

[@SlothDaan]

This is what makes you the better person. I'm sorry you had to go through that, I can't imagine what it would feel like.

[@clementinelovegood3182]

Honestly you should do it, if only for your own sanity. Only some places ban recording another person without their consent, so you might be allowed to. And anyway as long as you keep the recording to yourself it's unlikely anything would come of it. It's generally bad form to record someone without asking but if they're gaslighting is becoming a threat to your mental well-being you should priortize protecting yourself.

[@tobyatlas6480]

@@clementinelovegood3182 I ended up running away from home a few years ago and going no contact, but thank you! For caring

[@tobyatlas6480]

@@SlothDaan thanks for your sympathy, it's much appreciated

[@haventpickedanameyet2527]

Its not the wrong thing to do. Obviously you can't go back and record everything but secretly recording conversations is a very valid course of action for gaslighting and abuse

[@annavaz13]

regarding the third one, I also disagree, I don't think OP is an asshole at all. for me I see it as a victim of abuse fighting back against their abuser. if someone physically abuses you frequently, one day you might snap and fight back. is it alright to hit people? in general circumstances no, but in self defense? absolutely. and to me this is 100% a case of self defense. psychological abuse is as damaging or even more damaging than physical abuse.

[@JankoWalski-hz3lu]

^ I was about to say that but couldn't find the right words. In most cases you can get away with killing someone in self defense, how is this different?

[@rosieg6989]

6:17 Totally agree. It wasn't the daughters fault, she did all the responsible choices she could make, she saved up, she had a full time job, a person to split rent with that she trusted, it was not her fault that the cost of living increased at an unsustainable rate. When asking to move back in she even offered to pay you rent and stated that she planned to only be there less than half a year yet you still refused. You are the Ahole.

[@Ona1979]

A few years ago me and my partner were living in a small trailer parked in the woods within walking distance of my parents home. The trailer did not have heated water. If I boiled a pot of water, I could add it to a bucket of cold water and I would have a 5 gallon bucket of tepid water to bath with. The trailer wasn't heated. The only running water in the trailer, came out of the kitchen sink from a tank that my partner had to refill every day from water that he pumped and hauled from a small creek nearby. I had to use a cup to get my body and hair wet and rinse off with. My father told me that I could only use the shower in his home once per week, because he had to pay for the fuel that heated it. My parents can afford to take a month long vacation every year. It is not something that I would ever do to my son.

[@viktoriavadon2222]

After doing my phd abroad, and finishing it during the first lockdowns, I moved back home. My parents were actually happy to have me move back home and mom was actually offended when I offered to pay rent or contribute to the bills. She even wants to pay me when I do family groceries and I had to be firm in telling her to let me pay at least this. Not that every family should be like this, but a family like the one in that post is just unphatomable for me, they are huge a-holes trying to profit off of their daughter while being all haughty that "she should do better". A you said Shaaba, it's a different economy from generations prior, and there's not much else she could do "better". There's just everything wrong with their attitude.

[@samanthaharvey834]

This is the same way my mom is. I just graduated college and moved back in. I am working a job at a coffee shop and getting a second one. I am waiting for a fall to do an online masters and still stay with my parents. My mom says that I make her life easier by doing most of the cleaning, my brothers laundry, and some of the cooking. Since they love me and I add to their quality of life, my mom is happy to have me and gives me some allowance for the disproportionate housework I do.

[@Darinadon]

My parents and friends are the same. They would repeatedly refuse to take my money for any reason, and would get offended by the offer.

[@leannereilly9860]

I'm 30 and when my landlord gave us notice, my parents jumped at the chance to have me back home for a bit and would never ask me for rent (I would never not pay them rent). What an absolutely horrific excuse of a parent.

[@rinlozio1108]

As a person who regularly record an abusive person (gathering proofs for a court case) with their concent I can also provide my example: telling them you are recording in my case didn'tmake them behave any better. I noticed the presence of a camera often makes them say even more abusive, because they are convinced there is nothing wrong with anything they are doing. Sometimes they will even at random fights start record themselves to have proof that me and other family members are attacking them even tho they are the one screaming and threatening us with murder

[@stormRed]

I love how both you and Jamie will say something slightly goofy and then immediately go "I don't know why I just said that" 😂

[@twistysunshine]

This kid who's getting in gaslighting fights with the mom all the time... I agree that it was unethical to record the mom but tbh when their mom is intentionally trying to make them feel like they can't trust their own thoughts, then acting ethically becomes extremely difficult. It's interesting too that the provided evidence is not seen as "I'm proving I'm not crazy" by the mother but instead as an attempt to "win"... Kind of reads to me as if the mother IS trying to win and is now projecting that attitude out. The trauma thing does make this more regrettable though. I think I can't go for ESH because it is unreasonable to expect people to act ethically in inhumane conditions. A household where someone is subjected to gaslighting and emotional abuse is inhumane. I can't expect OP to act ethically or normally bc their circumstances are neither ethical nor normal. If they are told they shouldn't have done that, I think the likelihood is not that they will do it more ethically next time but that they will not do anything at all to stand up for themselves in the future, and will continue to suffer these conditions. OP needs to get out of that house. They need distance and separation from their mother. Maybe then they can try to navigate this complex situation ethically. But the only goal right now should be to get out and make their circumstances more liveable

[@viviewtreash-production1107]

I agree, exactly!!

[@fenixfox4366]

Ī disagree with the recordings this is ā abusive relationship recording can be and in the exsample is needed#NTA

[@BlackKoshka23]

My mom has a habit of making comments about my appearance and acting like she didn't do it. Last time this happened I pointed it to her, and she was like "I didn't say that, I don't remember", but I had tweeted something about it that same day, like ten minutes after it happened, so I had proof, so she had to admit she did it. She apologized and mainly stopped making those comments, so I think she wasn't doing it on purpose. Some parents maybe don't know, but others do know what they're doing and if they know they are being recorded, they will act like they do in public, so NTA in my book.

[@fenixfox4366]

Agreed

[@thebestwillow]

God I really really hope 2nd OP neglected to mention some major MAJOR contributing factors that influenced their decision, because based exclusively on what they said, they are not fit to be a parent to one child, let alone three.

[@lynturn7728]

Regards the recording one. Some people are so bad with stuff like gas lighting that they would change what their reply would be if they knew it was being recorded. It's so they can further the idea that they never say nasty/ hurtful/ ab***ve things.... just saying. Love your videos Shabba!!

[@fenixfox4366]

Agreed

[@FrancisR420]

True, But in a different circumstance it could go the other way where an abuser (more likely a parent) films a victim as they're going through a psychological episode from isolation and gaslighting to convince them that they're crazy and overreact to the parent who Is calm and sympathetic and denies saying anything mean. The gross thing about these fucked up pieces of shit in either situation is that as we can see on film they know what a good parent looks like, It clearly wouldn't kill them to act like one even while they're being compelled to further abuse and gas light their kid they know and can stop at any time. and they decide to abuse.

[@TransGuyShane]

Man that landlord upping the rent , really rubbed me the wrong way because my landlord is kicking me out and I feel for the girl trying to find a place to stay because it is soooo hard to find suitable accommodation. I hope her and her partner are able to save up and move back in together in the future ♡

[@cexilady3333]

You know why that mom probably said she can’t stand being recorded and has “trauma”? She didn’t want proof of her abuse thrown back at her. She didn’t break down about trauma the way someone usually does. She turned the situation back on her daughter to make her feel guilty for proving that what she said was correct. She used more manipulative and gaslighting tactics about the recording instead of acknowledging the “trauma” of what happened when it was done previously like a person who typically has gone through trauma associated with an event. She didn’t say anything about “you know why I don’t like it, you know about my past” or anything related to bringing up why it hurts that her daughter would do such a thing, a NON-manipulative version of this niche situation, but instead she only said “you’re using it to win” and “you know I can’t stand it” and those are classic manipulator moves. I know from experience. People can lie about what causes them trauma to force situations to be in their favour. Painting themselves as the victim too. Sounds like a classic case of Narcissistic Personality Disorder from the mom. Sorry to disagree, but the mom is still gaslighting/manipulating here. She’s the asshole.

[@viviewtreash-production1107]

I feel the same way... I myself struggle with PTSD from a narcissistic family and the described reaction just feels less like a trauma reaction and more like you said, a manipulation tactic... Still everyone reacts different to trauma and I can only say, even though it would've triggered her it would be in the right to record abusive behavior for a lot of reasons but especially as evidence in court... poor child...

[@salamanda11]

I totally agree. The mom got caught in a lie, and she needs to admit that and apologize. She can still express her hurt that she was being recorded and ask that her child not do that without her knowledge in the future, but not as a way to cover up her own errors.

[@cexilady3333]

@@salamanda11 in a circumstance where the mom was hurt by more than the consequences of her own actions I’d agree. I don’t think she was here.

[@Tustin2121]

Absolutely this. That “trauma of being recorded” is total bullshit.

[@unofficially-ace]

NPD isn’t what makes someone an abuser, being an abuser is. People with NPD literally have zero choice over having this disorder, it doesn’t make us inherently evil. Don’t diagnose strangers on the internet, especially not with one of the most demonised disorders in the world

[@thepickleboys347]

I’m a child of boomer parents, and I’ve recently had to come to terms with the fact that I will never have the type of relationship with my mom that I wanted or needed. I’m 40 and have never received an apology from her, literally ever. As a parent myself, all I can do is be as self aware as I can to not be that type of mom to my kids. ❤

[@nottheredelilah3757]

my dad used to gaslight me when i lived with him, to the point i had to ask my sister what SHE heard to know what had happened. I wish i'd been sneaky enough to record him, hell, it might have helped us get away from him faster

[@felvkitties8]

Wow that mom not letting the kid move in makes me feel lucky I was able to live with relatives as long as I did. She's put her kid in a bad situation were she doesn't even feel safe.

[@lapislazarus8899]

I'll bet you that mum who is being the A-hole to her daughter was helped by her parents, or her husband's parents, when they were that age! My former FIL was like this lady, he didn't even pay for his dead wife's cremation or memorial service, the four sons and their in-laws had to come up with everything! But he totally reaped the benefits from her parents when they were struggling. He was four years her junior. I hate that man!

[@A_T216]

I wish I'd been able to record my parents' abuse and gaslighting. (And it would have had to be without their consent, because they were Performers™ when it wasn't a private setting. Acted totally different on camera or with other people around. Night and day.) Whether my memory was always poor or if it's been affected by time, constant gaslighting, or as a defense mechanism in the moment (e.g. shutting down, dissociation, blanking), I have a very shaky grasp of what was real and imagined, especially with how long it's been since it all took place. Makes examining events for therapy very difficult, that I don't feel sure of the facts and have such large gaps in my memory. I really hope that last OP can get away, whether it's short-term or forever. Their situation is so reminiscent of mine from my teens. I'm really glad they got the validation of a recording, at least.

[@cathe8282]

I have a problem with changing you partner's music. Do you ask them? Say "Do you mind if I FF this song?" but no, turning off someone's music just because you don't want to listen to it, is a big anxiety trigger for me. I was in a groomingish relationship when I was young - my first lesbian relationship and she was "teaching" me all the things I was supposed to be into. She came out in the 50s and 60s; for me it was the 80s and 90s. Every time I chose something, she turned it off. That entire year I didn't chose anything -music, books, movies, etc., she did. So if you just shut something of mine off without asking or acknowledging why, I'm not happy.

[@SarasBooksAndThings]

I mean it's illegal to use in court or as evidence. You can do it, but its not always usable as evidence.

[@Lucifersfursona]

Shaaba recognizing that emotional abuse that fast is pretty intense but how quickly I recognized it is also a lot for me lmao. How familiar this was. But also... please don’t reveal your recordings unless you’re safe to do so.

[@sigrun1]

The 2nd one jfc. Your kids don’t stop being your kids once they turn 18. The daughter is seemingly very responsible so parents should be helping her out. Maybe just have her help a little with utility bills and groceries. I lived with my grandma until my mid 30s bc I just couldn’t afford to live on my own. I always helped with bills and whatever else she needed.

[@ginger_nspice]

In my 20s, my bf and I decided to quit our job because our employer was abusive. His mom agreed to let us stay at her house for 2 months while we sorted things out. I don't consider this a "handout" - it was motherly compassion and I'm still so grateful for it. With the extra time we were able to find the perfect apt and new jobs.

[@Dehlopesp]

Have you ever gone to r/insaneparents? I discovered through reaction channels, and it was enlightening to say the least. I'm 28, still living with my mom, and there are days that her comments and lectures trigger my depression super hard. Also hearing people say that "my house my rules" it's so fd up, because there are people who cant support themselved and stay in hostile situations, but emotionally feel homeless. I live in her house, and she made sure that it's not my home.

[@geetikas34]

Some parents can be BRUTAL!

[@fandombat3074]

She 25 she can’t pay for rent. How can parents be so cruel. House pricing are going higher and she 25.

[@mikna5758]

WOW! Shaaba didn't waste any time labeling the terrible "you're an adult now" parent. Pretty powerful, coming from the soft-heart who is always compassionate and would consider all POVs before coming to any conclusions.

[@65hilary48]

I find these videos so good for the soul. Shaaba you are so kind, reasonable and wise. I usually stay off AITA as it can be quite toxic, people indulging themselves in anger and hate and wanting to see the worst in people, especially giving advice that could potentially ruin lives based on very little information. Seeing you approach these questions with so much love, thoughtfulness and generosity of interpretation is refreshing and lovely.

[@ShinyTillDawn]

If you think r/AmITheAsshole is toxic, check r/femaledatingstrategy.

[@winterwolf0100]

I’ve watched countless videos where the person says “if you’re going through a similar situation, just know these things”. This is the first one that has related to me. It’s a difficult situation-even the thought of labeling your parent as emotionally abusive or manipulative sends you into crippling guilt. I know if I ever said it, she would burst into tears and cry about how she’s done everything she can for me, and she can’t believe I would ever think something like that. Thank you for your kind words Shaaba. It’s nice to know I’m not alone.

[@coasttocoast2011]

Australian here When my mum and dad bought their house in the late 1980s, they paid 20k. Now in our town you’re looking at at least 200k and I’ve see houses listed for over 300k I live rurally so prices are way way worse in Brisbane for example

[@Peachessssss13]

The recording one just reminds me of when I was very little and told my dad that he had to make a recording saying that he agreed to something because I was so used to him denying ever agreeing as a little kid I never realized how sad that is

[@pyritethefool4637]

Having also delt with gas lighting as a child, I think that recording the conversation is fine so long as you are the only one who ever hears it. As soon as you want to show it to another person, then you need permission. Not knowing what is true is really hard. And sometimes doing things like this is the only way to get clarity. But it should not be used as a tool to win a fight. That is not fair. My mom tends to say stuff like that mom did. She’ll claim her trauma is way worse so I should stop winning about mine. Or that she never said something. Or she’ll accuse me of saying something that I didn’t. People like this have a hard time admitting that they might be in the wrong. So theyll spin it how ever they can to make you the bad guy. You call them out on their crap, they’ll claim you’re just doing it to hurt them or get back at them. Even if you just want them to stop the behavior. Honestly, best advice that I can offer, avoid the conversations that result in the arguments as much as you can. Try to get out of the house as much as you can. Get a job or hang out with friends, just whatever you can. And go to college as soon as you can. And try to not stay home with your mom as much as you can. You can’t force people to change. But you also don’t have to accept their crap.

[@StudlyFudd13]

This exactly this!!!! ^^^^ I don't speak to my family due to the trauma they have caused me, the stuff they will never admit to. I had to finally accept that I will never get an apology, I will never get an explanation. They will take this shit to their graves. And I refuse to do that. I walked away and am letting it all go.

[@fenixfox4366]

Ī heavily dissafre with the consent bit as īn thr exsample they did that form their saftey (mental health sqftey) and theirfor shouldnt have to ask for consent this is ā narcissistic relasionship recording can be ā must and saying you need consent can and possibly will result in the endangerment of others

[@heather9130]

The second one. You already basically said this but I still have to. I know there are different family dynamics, but I can't imagine closing a door on one of my children. I WANT my kids to always know they can come home. Life happens. My mom died in my 20's, and I'll never forget the feeling of that safety net vanishing. No home to go back to. I'm SO MAD at this woman. They don't stop being your kids when they leave the nest. You can instill good foundations, and it sounds like the daughter wants to make a financial plan. "Nope you're an adult, figure it out," is terrible parenting, and I'll die on that hill.

[@butterflypooo]

For the mom and daughter moving out and the recording, I would say it’s less NTA. The language that the mom is using is CLASSIC textbook abusive, manipulation, gaslighting etc. The mom is already in the habit of using her trauma to try to make others feel sorry for her, even when she isn’t the victim. I doubt the mom is sitting around wondering if maybe she is being too harsh on her daughter or should try to understand more. I doubt it. The daughter is the more mature person in this scenario and is trying so hard to salvage something that probably can’t be … unless the mom admits and addresses how toxic they are and how much they need to change, which isn’t impossible but it’s unlikely to happen I’m not saying people should go around filming ppl to harass them, especially if they know that the person has trauma around that - but she was filming the convo to protect herself. And your rule about needing peoples consent to film them … generally yes but if someone is harassing and attacking a POC in a public space, I would rather have ppl film it and blast that person instead of do nothing. Obvi, in that case, a perpetrator won’t give their consent to be filmed … and that’s why it can be powerful.

[@thecraziestcrayon]

I'm 25 and currently living at home because I can't drive due to a vision impairment and need help getting around. I work full time and am saving up for my own place. My dad decided that instead of paying them rent, I would just add that onto the money that already going into my savings account every paycheck. I help out with household chores, cooking, do all my own laundry, and keep my spaces clean. I can't imagine where I'd be if they told me I couldn't live with them. It's not a "handout" and that idea is incredibly American. In many cultures, there are generations of people living under the same roof. This "pull yourself up by your bootstraps cause you're an adult" mentality doesn't work in today's economy

[@DamiesEvilTwin]

So the last one, that is a pretty classic example of what's been called "narcissistic parenting" which, afaik, doesn't have anything to do with the personality disorder (hence why people are trying to change that language). They are abusive, and then gaslight you about it. They don't want you to leave. They HATE being proven wrong. They don't want you to have any freedoms, responsibilities, defences, etc, but they will do nothing but snap at you for "not doing enough". The mom's reaction, twisting it into an accusation and the evidence of how ungrateful and vile the child is, is so indicative of how she would react even with consent. She's always going to find a way why the daughter is wrong and she is right. If this were with consent, betcha 10 bucks she'd lie about agreeing to it and still find a way to make it like her daughter is vindictive and cruel. And that's generally not how you react to being triggered - like, yes anger is a potential reaction but suddenly turning it on the other person and manipulating the facts? Nah fam I call bs. These types of parents just want the power over their children. They don't want their kids to be kids, to be people, to be individuals. The kids exist for their parents' desires, that's it. That may seem like a harsh summary but I have lived with these types of assholes, the only help they need is to get abandoned and left behind if at all possible. This is the kind of thing that makes people say "And in 30 years they'll wonder why their kid doesn't speak to them".

[@alexhika]

Maybe I'm extra sensitive because it's 7am but OMG THE PARENTS FROM THE SECOND STORY ARE LITERAL MONSTERS. I have been living in London for 10+ years, I've let friends and friends of my flatmates crash on our sofa while they were saving up for a deposit and you wouldn't do that for hour own daughter??!?? I am in shock.

[@rebeccajesse4604]

I can’t count how many friends/almost literal strangers my parents have “rented” (I think my parents may have charged like 200 a month if the person had a job and was doing ok) the spare room to. We lived in a 3 bed 1 bath house for most of my childhood and that 3rd room almost always had someone living there just to help them back on their feet. One time there was someone staying in the room and another person living in our camper in the yard. You don’t have to as generous as my parents to strangers but to deny your own child when you are in a position to easily help?! I just can’t fathom it.

[@flibbertygibbette]

With the rent one, as a parent, I'd consider charging rent just to help cover expenses, but probably wouldn't. And IF I did that, I would also consider putting anything left over from additional expenses (utilities, food, etc) into a fund to cover any additional expenses that come up, and give back anything unused from that fund to them to help them with a deposit or whatever. And if I did charge them rent, it wouldn't be market rate, for goodness' sakes! And I'd offer to have their partner come with them, if there was room and we got along well and could establish some communal agreements about things. My goodness, they're your child trying to be a responsible adult, not a random tenant.

[@elynmibord4128]

I've been watching your AH videos for a while now and I don't think I've ever been as shocked by one as I have for the second one from today's video (the parents not letting their daughter back home for 6 months). Wow.

[@clearlyseverely3155]

An ex of mine used to record me when we were fighting, and then I'd take out my phone too and the moment I did, he'd start being super calm and even tempered. Psycho.

[@alexnikander6353]

The second story left me absolutely baffled! What kind of parents are they? I am a teenager and definitely don’t have any experience of being a parent but I have parents and I am very privileged and grateful for having really good parents and I realise that not everyone gets to have reasonable (or much much worse) parents but just how can you just turn your back on your child that way?? When they haven’t even messed up, they didn’t do anything unreasonable or irresponsible or impulsive, life happened and you didn’t step up as your duty as a parent and supported your child when life hit them in the face? You don’t stop being a parent once your child turn 18! You are a parent for life and yes once they are adults they obviously have responsibility of their own life and all that comes with it but you as a parent should support where you can and where you are needed. You leaving you child high and dry isn’t even a teaching moment bc she didn’t do anything that she needs to be taught to not do again bc this was out of her control. And it would take nothing away from you?! If you are not in a situation where you can’t take on another mouth or person into the household, she even offered to pay, then why wouldn’t you? She’s family, and even beyond that she’s you child, someone you vowed to take care of when you brought her into this world? Yes she’s an adult but she’s you child??? I don’t even know why this upsets me so much, but here’s a comment for the algo ithm at least bc I am sure that no one actually will read this whole rant but it was nice to air my thoughts on the matter non the less :)

[@LadyQAB]

I have been the 25 year old who had to move back in with my parents. Different circumstances but same outcome, my parents didn't even question where I would go next. I was just welcomed back home, this was also in the peak of the pandemic and I lived alone so the social contact was also nice

[@fandombat3074]

Wait the first one is so confusing. I let my friends/ platonic relationship see my electronic. Unless I’m looking for gifts but I would explain why. We do not scoop. But we let each other use each other electronic. My mind also went straight to cheating too.

[@laura_B24]

Yeah and Shaaba didn't point out that the gf said that SHE is allowed to look on HIS phone. That makes it even more weird. Also, what were they listening music on? Because let's say they listened to it on Spotify app, unless it got a notification like 'xxx is being send to your house on wednesday', you wouldn't see that that person bought a gift or something. Like if you were just searching up gift on google, then your partner looking on your Spotify wouldn't see that? So yeah I think the gf is definitly hiding something bad...

[@amyt3949]

Recording people like the 2nd story OP did, is important for their own mental health. To know something occured as you think it did is key, when denial is like breathing for some folks. However most the time denial still wins and they will turn it round on you, and worse often amp up the abuse as payback. Sadly in my 40+ years of living in a narc family, the patterns rarely change. They may mellow to a more usual relationship on the surface, but bring up anything around trauma and its gaslighting denial and enabling time again. Don't lose hope because you can get help to work on your trauma. Its hard and not linear but we are already tough living with abusive family so this kind of hard at least has the wonderful benefit of rediscovering ourselves, our self worth and how (hopefully) much those outside our family love and value us. To Any survivors reading this you're worthy of love, validation, and so much more. Sending love from down under.

[@Sixthfirstlady]

I’ve always thought these type of comments are cheesy and kind of cringe- but in all honesty I now understand why people comment this. Whenever I’m feeling down I always come to watch your videos, something about how you discuss serious topics or just advice while staying positive makes me happy. Anyways that’s it, you’re great ! !

[@salamanda11]

For the third story: I hope OP can leave home soon. That is a toxic situation. I totally approve of OP recording the conversation. OP’s mom needs help. Parents need to apologize when they do something wrong.

[@henrysansone5501]

Woof, these ones really got me today! My family of origin is like the 2nd AND 3rd family. I can totally echo that walking away from my family of origin was one of the most difficult but best decisions of my life. Cutting off all contact is not for everyone, but I do remind people that we ALL get to choose our family of origin though (and whatever those relationships look like) just like we choose the rest of our family. I'm so curious about the generation divides happening right now too. Like, are they always this huge? Or is this a now thing?

[@shaaba]

Big hugs, it isn't easy 💛

[@pamplemousse861]

The parents not letting their daughter move back in are definitely a- holes. I can't imagine not letting my kids move back home. Maybe if they were being irresponsible I would charge them something, but I would still let them come home.

[@lora5030]

A rec for anyone renting - join a tenants union in your area if one is available, or organize one with your fellow renters. There are no ethical landlords, and all renters need to know how to protect themselves and each other from being exploited even more than they already are.

[@katbairwell]

When I left home at 19, and moved from the Midlands down to London, my parents told me two things; one that they were proud of me for striking out on my own, and two if I ever needed to, for any reason, I was always welcome to come back home. When I was struck down with CFS/ME at 21, I was so grateful to them (and still am) because had I not had that choice, I would have ended up homeless, and would not have survived.

[@lucypreece7581]

Reducing or fully cutting parental contact is hard. I have recently decided to significantly reduce contact with y mum because of some of her behaviour and it is hard. Time apart is often a good thing as it gives time for self reflection and healing.

[@jessy4935]

To the mom who won’t let her daughter come home for 6 months to recoup financially: Don’t alienate your children. You will need them some day. You may be ill, your partner may have an all-consuming problem, you may need financial help or a short term loan. Model the behavior you want to instill …

[@dcornect53]

I find when you prove to yourself that you are being gaslit, it is easier to be able to let the trauma from gaslighting heal because it can be easier to let the bullshitter's words mean absolutely nothing to you and just walk away.

[@MareaRayneOleander]

I deal with the same trivialization of my experiences from my mother. I tried to tell her about how i likely have cptsd (not officially diagnosed) because of her actions and she laughed in my face.

[@salamanda11]

I cannot with that parent in the second story. “Oh I wonder if that’s causing a strain on our relationship.” UH…DUH. If you have the space, you let her stay. You do not need your daughter to pay you the market rate. Unless she actually causes a strain on your house, she only needs to pay her share of utilities at most. You’d be paying the mortgage/rent with our without her living there. She’s your kid! She’s doing her best! Hell, I’d even let a friend stay with me for free in that scenario.

[@ellanina801]

The parents not letting their daughter move back in is SO shitty! You gave her life, and the reason they can’t stay in the apartment is the 40% increase in 3 months… that is so f’ing abusive… and letting her stay in a place where she doesn’t feel safe?! She could get robbed or assaulted or something. I wtf?! Op sounds like my narcissistic father (not a dad, parents care about their kids).

[@WindowIntoMyWorld]

“The world is made for two people or more” idk why that made me so emotional 🥺🥺

[@citrinedragonfly]

RE: The mum who wouldn't let her daughter move back in: it isn't just a one-way situation. My dad got fired unfairly from a job about 10 years ago, necessitating a cross-country move because my mom and dad couldn't afford to stay where they were, and had only moved cross-country the first time for that job. They had nothing to come back to, so my mom's parents - my grandparents in their 80s, let them move into their spare room. They lived with my grandparents for a couple of years before my dad got a job and they could afford to rent a place of their own. If my grandparents hadn't offered, I'm not sure what they'd have done. My brother was living with friends in a shared apartment, my sister was putting herself through grad school, and my wife and I had a place that was just barely big enough for the pair of us. It's ridiculous for that mom not to help her child, especially if said child had a plan in place for how things would work out.

[@not2day976]

"Not her fault, still her problem" This is a perfect quote, it shows exactly what happens in a situation like this. I KNOW it's not your fault, but the problem is still there! And it is something that only YOU can fix

[@librasgirl08]

My parents moved to another city and I finished school in the old city. My school had a special project, a-levels (Abitur) after 12 1/2 instead of 13 years. My parents moved for work, but didn't made that much, when I was at the end of my 12th year. Because the system was different, my grades couldn't be transferred, so if I had moved with my parents, I would have been send back to year 11(!). My aunt still lives nearby in the house my grandparents owned, she took care of my grandma for her last years, so the siblings agreed, she can live there. My grandpa wanted me to have the house at one point. So we asked my aunt, if I can live with her till I finish school. She was completely against it and said, my parents should take better care of me. I was 18, so I applied to receive money from the government, because it was a special situation. They agreed to pay my rent plus allowance till I finished school. I got into the uni I wanted, which was close to my parents new city. And what did they say? Hey, you can stay with us till you find a place, don't worry. They could not have paid for my rent between finishing school and uni, but as soon as they could help, with a place to stay, when I got into uni, they did help. They helped with the move as well. That's what parents do. Nowadays I have a better relationship with my aunt as well.

[@Darinadon]

Imagine treating a daughter like this... My parents don't have much, they live in a two-room apartment with my stepmoms mom, moreover, the region they live in is not a very good place to live in right now. However, my dad frequently suggest giving me money (the offer I always declined, even when I was 22 and moved alone to a different country, and certainly decline these days). And when I needed some time to rest after being burned out at my 3 jobs, it wasn't even a question, I stayed with them for 3 months, even though we were three together in one room. They were actually disappointed I decided to go back to the city I currently live in after 3 months, because they miss me and would love for me to stay longer. What kind of freaking lesson they are trying to teach here? That your family would treat you as some random stranger in the time of need? People's friends, let alone family, would let them stay with them, which did happen to me a couple of times, and my wonderful friends did let me stay with them, for 4 months at some point, without question or any discussion.

[@hollymarie5968]

For the second, can we also talk about how shitty it is to tell your child they can move back home but their long term partner isn’t allowed to come? Like wth??

[@fuzzzysock]

When the eldest daughter has zero interest in any caretaking for her parents as they age, no one should be surprised! I've lived with family a few different times, even after I got married, because of layoffs and preparing to move cities. We've paid some rent, but nothing like market rate. It was beneficial for everyone and I'm glad my family weren't jerks!

[@glencoconut]

I was angry at the parent that didn't let their daughter move back in with them but realised they're the one that's making the post so HOPEFULLY they realise how insane that is

[@sallymiller1533]

As a mother of 2 boys in their 30s who at the moment are both independent with so's I can say without hesitation they and there so's could come to me with zero notice and no money if they needed to. So I can't get my head around turning your child away.

[@sonyamiller4853]

The recording thing in the US is tricky, because the law varies state to state. So while yeah in the UK it's blanket illegal to record without permission, that might not be the case for OP.

[@clueingforbeggs]

Due to some past experiences, I would not be comfortable with giving anyone free access to my mobile. I might say 'Hey, I trust you, so if you want to do anything with my phone, please ask me what you want to do and it's likely, given I trust you, I'll OK it.' However, there's absolutely no way I would demand someone else have a more open phone policy, and to be honest, if I had a partner who said 'You can look at/use my phone whenever', I would be like 'hey is it OK if I look at/do (X) on your phone?' Demanding someone have a more open boundary than your own one just seems very... Weird? Could be leading to an abusive situation? And yeah it definitely sounds like in that situation there's some cheating going on.

[@sbloomers]

Police and support agencies can actually advise persons in abusive relationships to record ongoing happens for their own safety. If it is not safe to do so, not 'seeking consent' in order to have evidence of abuse can sometimes be the lesser evil (ie. the abuser would remove your access to technology/ the outside world if they think you there could be recorded proof of the abuse, for one example).

[@ClaireCaoimheRaeMoonshadow]

My child absolutely could move back in with me! I would ask them to contribute some to the household, but definitely help them save up. Once you have a life of your own, it can be hard to move back to your parents home. You both have your own routines and way of doing things, but I would make it work.

[@RubiByron]

Whats crazy is that your thoughts on the second story confirmed what I was thinking about my own family. Whenever I told my dad I was recording he never said anything problematic, but when I didn't, I had full recounts of all of the stuff he told me he didn't say. Thank you so much for making these videos it really ended up helping me process some of my past trauma.

[@Struudeli]

My father tells me almost every month, that if living away gets too hard I can always return home. I have cats and my dad is allergic, but he'd be ready to put his comfort aside to help me. I turn 27 this spring. Thats what good parents do. They help their kids. You created them.

[@HighAsHeckPriestess]

Legal Eagle has several videos referring to the legality of recording conversations with other parties, and whether or not they can meet the standard for a hearsay exception depending on where you live, although its mostly about the US.

[@koalaskrypin]

Several therapists and psycologists I follow on social media says that if a narc wants helt it is possible, but it is a SEVEN year journey.

[@Invisiblegirl109]

So I, as someone who experienced severe abuse from the ages of 2/3-18 still really struggle to not talk to my parents. They literally sold my body to people and threatened to do it to my INFANT that I had when I was 16 if I didn’t let them do it. Even after that, it took me getting pregnant from the abuse a third time (the first time I was 13 and was forced to have an at home abortion) from this abuse to realize that I needed to get out. I haven’t talked to my parents since I was 18 and I miss them every single day even though it has been 6 years

[@Mesanin3]

thank you for doing these from a place of such compassion and warmth. I'm struggling with a narcissistic housemate (1/7) and it's comforting to know i can do what's best for me, without going against my nature and being awful to them.

[@BaddeGrasse]

Late to the game, but, i fully believe that protecting yourself from your abuser is way more important than giving them the opportunity to not let you. Domestic violence laws are pretty good (yknow, relatively) where i am so you have every right to record someone without consent if its in self defense, which i truly believe should be the case everywhere

[@HonorWillow]

Mum Gaslighting Being Filmed: I say this as someone who also has trauma with being recorded, outside of any legality, morally it is totally legitimate to record someone without them knowing and consenting if they are abusing you trauma with being recorded or not

[@larissapienaar2436]

I am 43 years old and about to move across the planet with no money to live with my mother for the first time in 20 years because I’m going through a major separation and I need a place to heal and regroup. When I called, even though she is far from wealthy herself, she said yes without hesitation and is giving up her master bedroom for me so I have a safe space to retreat to. I cannot even begin to imagine her reacting any other way. I don’t have children but I would do this for any of the children I love WITHOUT HESITATION! Those parents need a serious wake up call.

[@misscherrybombshell]

With regards to the recording thing: legality/illegality is dependent upon the Country/State/Province/etc where the recording takes place, as well as the type of recording (audio, video, or both). For instance, some places are single party consent locations - where a conversation may be audio recorded so long as any single person participating in the conversation consents to the recording (this includes the person making the recording) - Canada is single party consent

[@Coco21212]

5:03 In France, by law, you can't raise the rental price, ever, without signing a new contract. So if the duration of your rental contract is 3 years, 5 years or undetermined, the rental price stays the same for that period of time (you can always leave anytime you want during that period. You just have to give a one to three months notice depending on what type of rental it is and where it is situated). Foor example, my mom has been living in the same appartment for 27 years. She still pays the same rent as she did 27 years ago. The US and UK really suck for poor people. I can't imagine.

[@bevishhh]

8:51 go off! 🙌 the way he (dad?) said "she's been *forced* " to stay in that place, like there's no physical way he could've allowed her to stay with them. RAGING.

[@rachelzahava8292]

The thing about the recording... it's complicated, the consent and trauma is important to be careful of but when I was a kid my mom would say awful thing to me all the time and then seem like she didn't remember saying them, like she was in a fugue state. I tried to record her once when she was in one of these spaces but didn't tell her cause I was scared and when she saw my voice recorder was on the table, she smashed it into pieces. I lost months of recordings for music I was writing. Maybe it is wrong to record someone without their knowledge but it wasn't illegal, I think my fear was justified. I am not saying this person felt the exact same way or the situation was equivalent since I was like 14, but I know that I would never try to stop my mom in the middle of one our fights to get her to sign a thing for fear she would rip it up scream at me, start to cry about how mean I was being to her or storm off (or probably some combination). It's important to remember that when people have gaslighting tendencies trying to prove they have been lying can illicite a violent reaction because they need their version of events to seem true to have power. Knowing the mom has trauma around being recorded I wouldn't have shown her the recording but I WOULD HAVE made it and kept it for myself so I could remember the truth and know I wasn't the crazy one. Honestly, I would advise not bring up your childhood and watching out for your mom baiting you into it. Try to step away when she is saying you are wrong about the past, or calling you a liar for remembering things different from her. She might really remember things her way or she might need to say it happened different because the truth is too sucky for her. It's not fair but you gotta take care of your own mental health and find that zen place where she can't manipulate you into not believing your own memories. Until you reach that place you need to be careful about the situations you are in with this person, and honestly therapy did amazing things for helping me to trust myself enough to withstand that level of lying and manipulation.

[@PanEtRosa]

one sure thing I have learned about abuse survivors is that we downplay everything. even if we feel like we're exaggerating, and even if other people think we're exaggerating, the reality is always many times worse than our descriptions. that girl was 1000% justified recording her mom secretly to fight back against the gaslighting.

[@bunji_beans]

For the last one, it felt like the lines between what is moral and what's legal were being blurred a little. Recording their mom may have been illegal depending on where they live, but morally I don't think they were wrong at all. The fact that their mom has past trauma from being recorded is moot in light of the abuse she's subjecting OP to imo.

[@daniellerains5733]

I'm still hung up on the gf in the first story being like "no, I still get to see your phone, you can't see mine" even though her main reason was "my phone is my property"?? Does she see her partner's phone as her property, too?

[@lizzigilmore5813]

The first one, I actually get the feeling he (I assume "he") might be misrepresenting her argument. If I were cleaning and my boyfriend came over and changed my music without asking, I'd tell him to not touch my stuff. Maybe that's what she was saying. Sure, my boyfriend can look at my texts, photos, use my phone to search something when my phone's closer, etc., but if I want to use my phone to play my music, you can't stop me. You can ask me to change it, or lower the volume, or put on headphones, but you don't get to just go over and change it.

[@hannahh1601]

The story about the mum and the recordings, it sounds to me like narcissistic abuse, as someone who has both a degree in forensic psychology and experienced this first hand, it seems to me that your mum is a narcissist and so she is unlikely to ever admit fault or take responsibility.