taking my brother's baby? r/AITA

[@botanicalitus4194]

Ironic how people who are pro life always claim that abortion should be banned because "people should take responsibility for their choices". And yet here we see a pro life family who pressured someone into keeping a pregnancy only to try and offload the consequences of THEIR choice onto someone else. Hypocrisy is basically a core tenant of being pro Iife

[@barrylangille3523]

That's more or less my thoughts. The father said he would take responsibility and immediately proposed dumping the responsibility on someone else. That's hypocrisy at it's finest, and irresponsible into tbe bargain.

[@henrysansone5501]

well you know what they say, every right-wing accusation is just a confession.

[@DamiesEvilTwin]

Yes, absolutely, that was my thought.

[@SpookiCooki]

100%!!

[@Indigopopify]

It demonstrates that it is often really about preserving a certain self-image - people are not interested in the actual consequences and possible harm because that's not the point.

[@blak4831]

"How dare you deny love to this child that we're denying love to!" -pro-life grandparenting 101.

[@WelcomeApathy]

The hypocrisy is mind-blowing!

[@NoxBVansyn]

It honestly sounds like 1. the brother is trying to pawn his responsibilities off on his older sister 2. the parents favour him 3. they sound awfully sexist.

[@L3onking]

If THEY wanted the baby it's THEIR baby. OP doesn't get maternity leave if she takes her brother's baby. Her brother should have thought about his degree before having premarital sex.

[@NoxBVansyn]

@@L3onking I agree

[@mikaylaeager7942]

@@L3onking or not manipulated his GF into keeping the pregnancy.

[@jceh-art]

@@L3onking the problem here isn't that he had premarital sex lmao, it's that they, one, weren't being safe about it, and two, he manipulated his gf into not getting an abortion when she wanted one

[@16poetisa]

@@L3onking If she formally adopts the baby, she might in fact be entitled to maternity leave - parental leave often extended to adoptive parents. Doesn't make the situation any less effed up, though.

[@reesah.3020]

With the "would I be the asshole" question-- if the brother already thinks of the baby as something he can just hand off responsibility for after pushing the girlfriend to have it, I absolutely see him coming back four years down the line and wanting custody back. "Well, it's not even really yours!" I feel for the eventual kid and for the OP, but if they take on that kid I'd want the brother's parental rights terminated too. Either he wants to be a parent or he doesn't, but a child isn't a car he can leave in his sister's driveway until he's done with school.

[@willowarkan2263]

I agree. I would support taking the child in, for the sake of the child, as I do not foresee a happy childhood with the dad and grandparents. If the mother wants to be in the kid's life later so be it, she was pressured into this situation as well. However the dad can't retain the option of trying to take it back after pulling this, for one he might attempt to use the ability to coerce other things from the op in the future.

[@barrylangille3523]

I have to wonder if the father's whole plan for "taking sole responsibility for his child" was to palm the child off on his sister.

[@solsystem1342]

100% make sure you get it legally enforced. This sort of slimy behavior is something I would never want to coparent with. Yes, I think the sister is the asshole if she would leave the kid with her brother but, the parents and the brother are toxic and the ones responsible. So she's like a small asshole if "biological kids" matter more than getting this kid a stable family.

[@solsystem1342]

Oh, also, they should force the brother to apologize to the mother (in writing checked by you) and admit that they messed up in forcing her to have the kid.

[@elaexplorer]

Right my older brother tried to do that. My mom told him no cause I work and can't take care of a baby. His response was,"Well, can't (my 14 yo autistic AFAB) take care of (his kid)." Like I would burden a 14 yo with a kid. He was 40 at the time.

[@powderandpaint14]

On the baby question, the brother should bring up his child with support from the grandparents while he finishes his degree. He insisted that the baby will be born, so he has to take responsibility.

[@annakevlin8634]

All the responsibilities as a single parent. Not as a barley present "father" As he has tried to cast himself by forcing the child's mother to bare them and now his sister to rase them. This man doesn't respect others as things stand, his treatment of others is appalling. He should never have dated anyone until he sorted himself out; let alone gotten someone pregnant. However, irresponsible people don't care if others are harmed by their irresponsible actions or lack of actions. This man is irresponsible. His girlfriend and child would have been better off if neither of them had met him. He should have his parental rights taken away and the child should go up for a closed adoption. The child will do better without him. He will harm them though his further selfishness.

[@koraliekora-leepalmer4024]

We need to stop calling these people pro life... they're never anything more than pro birth. Mom didn't want it, and in the end, neither did brother. NTA

[@itme999]

I'm adopted and pro-choice so I wasn't sure why I reacted so vehemently HELL NO to the one about the brother's kid. I think you hit it on the head: he's TA for denying the girlfriend her choice, and if he's so interested in having parental responsibility, he should, uh, take responsibility. 😡

[@s.a.4358]

I am really wondering about the girlfriend/bio mom in this scenario. Yes she did express that she does not want to keep the child, but she was made to carry the child and will give birth to it, so the least thing would be to include her in the conversation about who will care for the child. She gave up her parental rights but, given how the brother and family are acting, I am not convinced she even did so freely or with enough reflection time. Where I live one cannot even give up parental rights until after the child is born, to make sure the mother has enough time to really make her decision and consider all options that are available. Not saying that this would be the case, but it is also possible that after 9 months of pregnancy and giving birth the bio mom feels differently about giving up her child or even about having the bio dad get full custody. It feels so wrong that the bio mom’s voice is just ignored in all this. Even if she doesn’t want to keep the baby, she still has a right to be involved in deciding who will look after it!

[@JeanieTortoisefly]

@@s.a.4358 Depending on where they live, the document terminating the pregnant birth mother's rights is likely unenforceable. Even if it's legal (I have serious doubts that it is in this case, most jurisdictions won't formalize termination of a birth mother's parental rights before the child is born), most places have a set grace period after the birth, where the birth mother can change her mind about giving up her child.

[@SandraLugn-nc1rk]

I hope you feel loved. /Pro choice woman

[@angeljaceherondale]

You cannot assess if someone is abusive or manipulative in one dinner. Abusers are often extremely charming and can play dumb too. The fact he was even looking to date a 19 year old is a red flag in and of itself.

[@dopex89]

Yeah, I'm early thirties and I cannot imagine what I would do with a 19 year old... They are children to me. Even up to 25. Knowing I was so insecure during those years of my life, I can't imagine being with someone like that.

[@signalred]

This is definitely important to note! Abusive relationships can be incredibly hard to detect, I've heard plenty stories of people being in abusive relationships for years but no one ever noticed bc the abuser was so nice/likeable/charming etc. Very important for the parents to keep an eye out and see where this goes, and hopefully they create an environment where the daughter would feel comfortable coming to them if it does go south. But yeah, even if he's not abusive/manipulative, even if he's kinda immature, it's a massive red flag that he's willing to date a 19 year old. I'm in my early twenties rn and would never even consider dating an 18/19 year old.

[@KatjeKat86]

To me this is even a bigger reason why the dad needs to appear to accept the relationship because it means if there is a problem Sara will feel safe to come to him. Especially if he emphasizes the fact that hes happy for her that she's happy more than he really likes the guy and is a supportive in that way. If that makes sense, you don't want her to get isolated if it is an abusive relationship.

[@WelcomeApathy]

That is true, and emphasizes that they need to keep the line of communication open with Sara and spend time with them both, to be able to keep eyes on the situation. Also, to make Sara realize they will be there if she needs help. They need to talk to her about their concerns, while treating her like the adult she feels she is. She's young, yes, but every 19 yo thinks they are fully grown and knows what they are doing, so forbidding anything will do nothing. Express concerns, keep watch, be there for her. Talk to her about what abuse is and looks like, too. (This is something every parent should do with their kids, at young ages, so they know.) If the situation is innocuous, the good news is that she will likely out-mature the guy shortly and move on. If the guy is really only mature enough to have things in common with such young partners, when the young partner gets a little older, they realize it and leave. Hopefully that will be all that happens.

[@_.-._.-Y0K0-._.-._]

Yeah, I do see ppl's point in that they can't outright stop their daughter... the way the dad spoke about it, especially the part about worrying more that his daughter manipulated the man that vice-versa, sounded so much like every case of a young girl being manipulated by an older guy then blamed for it. I don't think he can actively do much towards the couple at the moment but I do think he should keep his guard up more than he seems to have

[@angeljaceherondale]

That poor child did not ask to exist and is already in an abusive family....

[@heather9130]

I can't deal with that last one. I come from a long line of pro-life family (all big guilt-trippers too), and having a baby made me even more pro-choice than I was before. Children are such a blessing and the hardest thing I have ever done. Raising a child is not to be taken lightly. Having one pushed on you with this manipulative rhetoric is just insane to me. The poor baby. Imagine her saying yes and then raising the child until they realize their dad is in the family and didn't want to raise them himself. The awkward questions, the hurt that child would feel. I hope they're able to place the baby for adoption so they can be with a family who will want and love them. It's such an unfair situation.

[@laynasnow8550]

I also imagine that the parents and 'brother' will undermine the raising of the child too. They're already too manipulative about the child's life, I imagine it'd be hell for OP to make any decision about that child that went against what the family wishes. What if it's gay, and they're homophobic? What if the child wants to take art and not math, or start dating, or if they don't want to raise the child religious but the family does? While the family might look the other way for OP's own kids, this child will never be fully hers, not when the family has so much say in it's life when it's not even born. I might be assuming, and it might not happen at all, but I wouldn't take the risk. If I was her and decided to take the child, I'd have to cut the whole family out of my life.

[@christinewalker7242]

All of my family is pro-choice and I can't imagine all the negative emotions around this situation. I could never raise a child or be forced to carry a child to term. Even just the idea of carrying to term is like a 9 month torture scheme to me as someone who really doesn't want kids and is asexual sex repulsed, the only way I'd get pregnant is through rape and just being reminded of that daily through physical changes in my body, the trauma would be horrible to put it lightly. Not to mention, my body is already fragile health wise, so the impact on not only my mental health but physical health would take years to recover from, if not be impossible to. And then if I had to raise that kid and see that kid everyday, the constant trauma reminder... I doubt any kid wants to grow up feeling like their parent hates them, only had them because they were forced to and all the parent sees them as is trauma and a lost life the parent feels that they deserved to have. Outside of that, a child uses up so much time that in my opinion should only be brought into this world if they are really wanted. Anyway, they are just some of the reasons I am pro-choice and being in a country that is predominately pro-choice with easy abortion access with my family that won't pressure me... I am glad I do not have to worry about this option being taken away.

[@Insertia_Nameia]

Exactly. I'd push for the child to be adopted out. And if I were OP and took them in, I'd make it very clear that they are to have ZERO input with this child. (the sperm donor as well as the grandparents.) And I would make sure his legal rights are stripped entirely, because I see him coming back later. It would hurt at first, but I would make sure that the child knows early on that the "dad" didn't want them but that I and (hopefully) my husband and children love them as our own and that they are every much a part of their family unit. They said they're fairly well off, so they can probably afford some therapy to help the child through it when they're old enough to really start grasping it. (Probably like around 8 or 10, and than again later down the line if needed.) This way the child gets all the support they need, they aren't blindsided later on, and helping them work through it in therapy can discussing with them (in age appropriate ways,) how their sperm donor and grandparents are manipulative and in the wrong, will help keep them from being manipulated by the "dad" and grandparents later down the line. You don't have to bad mouth them, but you have to explain the truth to them. (A very fine line I have to toe along with my kids so I understand how hard that is. I had to take mine away from their dad for being abusive and trying to sell our daughter a couple of yrs ago. He told them both his intent, but still, at their age they can't fully comprehend what that means yet. I can't openly bad mouth him, but I need to make sure they know the truth and what he did to them and tried to do was not in anyway okay and not something that should be forgotten about or put aside, if they ever do have contact with him again.)

[@s.a.4358]

I agree. Even if the OP were to adopt the child and treat it fully like a bio child, do everything perfectly, etc, it would still be such a complex situation because of the family around. Also, what about the bio mom?? Yes she did not want to keep the child, but she may (probably) still want to know what is happening with the child and who will take care of it, so she should be part of the conversation. Did she really want to give up her legal rights or was she pushed into it? Does she know the bio father is trying to get out of raising the child? Just because the bio mom said she did not want to be pregnant and would have chosen abortion doesn’t mean she does not care about the child. Maybe she even would like to keep the child but feels unable to provide a “good life” (in which case she could be given support), maybe she did not want to have a child specifically with the brother, or maybe she just doesn’t want a child at that moment but that still doesn’t mean she is not going through pregnancy, going to birth a child and cannot have caring feelings towards that child. The bio mom is completely being ignored in this as if she is just a vessel to produce the new human!

[@heather9130]

@@s.a.4358 That's my fear too. She's carrying to term. I can't imagine that she feels nothing. It sounds like OP has a good grasp of the situation, so we can only hope she makes good choices for the baby and includes the mom. That brother sounds like a piece of work. I can't get over the selfishness.

[@shhimreading906]

bruh how tf do you force someone to have a baby they dont want and then be like soooooo i dont rly want it either😅 pro-lifers never cease to astound me.

[@StudlyFudd13]

Let's call them what they are, "Pro-birthers"

[@Arosukir6]

It helps to recontextualize the term to "pro-birth" or the more extreme "pro-forced-birth" for this exact reason. Their intentions aren't to save or help children. They want to control AFAB bodies. Once the kid is out, it's on its own. 😥

[@maxrodriguez3632]

I have such strong feelings about the adoption one as someone who is adopted. The biggest Red flag for me was when her family said that OP was denying the child love as if the brother had not already made a commitment to raising them. Having a kid is always a "selfish" thing. Even in adoption it's done first because you want a kid. With the family being pro-life I feel safe assuming it's to try to help kids from their view so they need to step up and shower this kid in love

[@krankarvolund7771]

Yeah, their reasonning is just nonsensical, they're manipulating OP with emotions, there's no logic ^^' That child is not even an orphan, he HAVE a family, it's just that this family does not want it if anyone is denying love to a kid it's them XD As always accusatios are projections ^^'

[@christinewalker7242]

I feel having a kid has to be a selfish choice. They use up so much time and energy and money that unless you want to experience those sacrifices, you will not adequately fulfil. Coming from someone who is very thankful that their parents were selfish with wanting to do genuinely experience all the highs and lows of being parents and didn't do so until they knew they were ready and that is what made them amazing parents.

[@s.a.4358]

Agreed! My partner and I are looking at adoption right now (cannot have bio children) and it’s such a reflective process of why do we want to have a child, what can we provide, are we ready, etc. One is taking on the responsibility for another human who is still small and needs caring for, which is a huge thing. The brother just decided to force his GF to carry the baby to term but he doesn’t actually seem interested in being a parent. OP is thinking about what it would mean to take care of the brother’s child and whether her and her family can give that child what it needs and deserves, and really treat that child equally the 2 bio children.

[@ZombieInvader]

The red flag of “denying the child love” also struck me. I love my nieces and nephews but it doesn’t mean I wouldn’t have to seriously think about it if I was asked to take guardianship of one.

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

If they’re worried about the kid being denied love why don’t dad and grandparents give it that love. Why is it someone else’s responsibility. They’re just trying to pressure and coerce her like the pressured and coerced the pregnant woman because they feel guilty admitting that they’re immature, irresponsible, and in reality they dgaf what happens to the baby

[@ribonichigo]

I think the last OP should tell the girlfriend of the conversation between the OP, brother, and parents. Literally let the legal battles begin and cut off the family, and maybe even help the girlfriend find a new adoptive family for the child. I don't think the brother or parents are at all in a well minded position to care for the child, and are pushing their views on someone without following through on their own views. I feel like it may be unnecessarily harsh but they're literally playing with the livelihood of a child and appear to fully disrespect womens' choices on the matter. Forced one woman to have a child she didn't want just to pawn it off to another woman who doesn't want that child either. And then to call you selfish for not wanting the child. Sounds like they think a woman's only purpose in life is to care for children. Meanwhile the brother is not receiving any grievance for wanting to get rid of the child for the "betterment of his degree" as if the girlfriend's future wasn't impacted by being pregnant for 9 months. Fuck the brother, fuck the parents. Look out for yourself, you aren't the asshole here. If you have the ability to, get out of the family and help the girlfriend find a good future for the child she was forced to have.

[@WelcomeApathy]

Not to mention the threat they gave OP about "denying the child love." They clearly don't think of the child as someone they love or will love. They're expecting OP to do it, as it's not their responsibility/the child isn't worthy of love/isn't a real person, in their eyes.

[@Meloony13]

For the third case, the brother and their parents are horrible, especially for calling OP selfish. They are all manipulating everyone around them, I hope OP can stand their ground and stay happy and healthy with them in their life.

[@krankarvolund7771]

I feel like OP have a supporting partner that will not let it happen, I'm more worry if she'll be able to find peace with this decision ^^'

[@mushroomocean5177]

I was a 19 yo dating a 37 yo. I do wish my mom and brother would’ve advised me not to continue, but they supported my decision at the time. It’s a difficult situation, and when my dad reacted with anger is just made me afraid. I wish my parents had come to me with more kind concern, but I don’t blame them for what happened.

[@kaicarp5753]

Absolutely this, I was 18 and dating a 30 year old and I felt exactly the same, I wish my parents talked to me about it and explained the dangers properly.

[@sabaducia]

The kind of teen I was, even if my parents came to me with kind concern, I would have pushed back. I don't know if there's a way to know how to handle this situation in the time. I agree kind concern is probably best, but not sure if that would be effective. I can see why parents would react wildly differently in a situation like this.

[@animeartist888]

I have seen exactly one large age gap relationship that was honest and sweet. One was early 20s and one mid to late 40s, but they'd both met as adults with jobs. They were gay so having children wasn't really an issue on the table. Their relationship started with a Grindr hookup that became an hours-long chat afterwards and a reluctance to be apart even that early on. I'm normally really squicked out by large age gaps (at least, when one is clearly still considered "young" while the other is "middle age" or more, it's less weird to see a 70-year-old and a 50-year-old dating, yanno?). But with these guys, it was clearly based entirely on attraction. There really wasn't a power dynamic going on as they both already had their lives pretty together. And it helped me feel better when I heard the older of the two profess love and break into tears when it was returned. But every single other I've witnessed or even heard about has been gold digging younger folk getting together with manipulative older folk looking for a hot trophy to have on their arm so they can brag to their rich friends about the hot piece of ass they've got.

[@kalieris]

I hope the mum in the last one keeps her parents and brother at arms length and doesn’t let the toxic manipulation squad guilt and manipulate her or her kids.

[@jackriver8385]

I feel like that brother was hoping his gf would change her mind, and when it became clear that that wouldn't happen, he ran to the nearest woman to take on his responsibility.

[@eireannbullimore7763]

Someone who's nearly 40 dating a teenager is creepy. There's no other way about that, 19 is literally only just out of childhood (their brains haven't even finished developing yet for gods sakes) and a grown ass adult wanting to date someone that young will always be weird and kinda creepy. Dad isn't wrong for not trying to force his daughter and bf apart because it would not work, but him saying he's not concerned makes him seem like the naive one. His daughter hasn't finished growing yet and someone well into his adulthood is attracted to her for some reason.

[@krankarvolund7771]

She's 19, of course she's adult. Probably not the most mature of adults, but the quadra doesn't seem very mature either ^^'

[@nriamond8010]

I know two couples who were in exactly that situation (she 18/21, he 36/39). It CAN become a dangerous power dynamic, but not necessarily - you are a legal adult at that time for a reason. Both women are more dominant than their partner, both couples are married for many years now and have been together for about 18 years. A relationship with an age gap and one partner being quite young is not always doomed.

[@eireannbullimore7763]

@@krankarvolund7771 I didn't say she wasn't an adult. I said she hasn't finished growing/developing yet. His immaturity doesn't change the fact that he is a fully developed adult and she's only just out of childhood and yet to finish her brain development which will definitely affect their relationship, for good or ill.

[@eireannbullimore7763]

@@nriamond8010 I'm not saying it's doomed. I'm not even saying it's wrong, but it is still weird when a 30/40 something old wants to date a person fresh outta childhood, still a teenager in fact. It's creepy because of the opportunity for an abusive power dynamic and while that obviously doesn't always happen, it happens often enough that people simply don't agree with dating someone in their late teens.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@eireannbullimore7763 Then should she never date anyone until she's 25? ^^ It's with relationships that she'll grow and mature. I'm 26, my brain have stopped developping, but I've never dated anyone in my life, so I can't say I'm mature sexually or romantically ^^' A big age gap is a red flag, I agree on that, but a red flag is not a ban, it's a warning, this part of the relationship could be toxic, but it also could not ^^

[@akakun3203]

He: DON'T ABORT IT! I'LL TAKE THE RESPONSIBILITY! He later: Take it, I don't want it right now

[@broughttoyoubyaguynamedste6144]

What makes me worried about that last one is that if OP says yes then it is likely the brother might trying to do the same thing to her again if he ends up having another unplanned child. This feels like it’s going to set up a dangerous pattern of him leaving a bunch of loneliness kids in his wake.

[@shaaba]

This is a great point that I hadn't thought about!

[@DragonFae16]

With the third story, I can foresee that if the OP did take the kid, the brother would regularly threaten to take the baby away if the baby wasn't raised the way he wanted. And you can bet that as soon as he felt 'ready' to be a parent he would try to take the kid away, especially if he ever got married.

Pfff, being "asked" to take care of a sibling's kid like that. Not complex at all to me, it would be an instant no. Brother, you made that mess of a bed totally on your own, you lie in it, don't try to push that responsibility over on me.

[@faithpearlgenied-a5517]

For me too. I'd tell him to sort his damn self out and take responsibility for his actions.

[@sweariefaerie9621]

​@@faithpearlgenied-a5517 Shit, my nephew is about to be a father, and is making shitty decisions at the moment. I love that young man dearly, but I can't save him from himself. None of us can. I just hope my grandniece will be OK despite his current choices.

[@siiiriously3226]

@@sweariefaerie9621 well, maybe once she is grown up there will still be enough ecosystem left for therapy to exist. *laughsInExistentialDespair`*

[@sweariefaerie9621]

@@siiiriously3226 I am not stoned enough to handle that comment.😂😭

[@barbarareichart267]

@@SirLopi666 The thing is, even if the sister adopts it, with how the parents and brother are talking, I would be afraid that this is not a good solution either. The brother and grandparents will probably constantly meddle. Messing up the family dynamic for the kid and his adopted siblings. The brother would sometimes want to be the "father" and then again not. Stuff like that. How the mess is looking to me right now, the only good solution for the kid would be a closed adoption to a loving family, far away from his dad and grandparents.

[@saikite]

For the ‘wibta’ one, I think the brother needs to take responsibility for his actions. He can’t just force a girl to keep a baby say he will take care of said baby and the girl doesn’t have anything to do with it and then dumb the baby on his sister.

[@barrylangille3523]

A lot of us seem to feel this way. The brother's idea of responsibility is a very strange one

[@elizabethsimpsonbeverleigh8686]

I think that "I don't want to" is a valid reason for saying no, especially when the situation involves your family.

[@InThisEssayIWill...]

11:20 I think another consideration is the impact to her kids, like one month is no time at all to say "you're going to be a big sister!" And allow those kids to anticipate and adjust to the change. They don't get to have those slow conversations as mommys belly grows week by week, and 9 months of rearranging furniture and setting up the nursery.. they'll basically have their lives turned upside down overnight. And I don't mean that it's not navigable or couldn't be a net positive.. but the oldest child being praised as so well behaved is directly correlated to a loving and STABLE home life. Expect some rough months ahead if she goes through with it.

[@channlychan]

The last one makes me feel sick. I feel so bad and sorry for the girlfriend and the child. The brother and parents are such assholes

[@winterpagel216]

Wow, the audacity of the last family! So manipulative & pushy. OP is definitely NTA & should distance herself from her family.

[@hexonyou]

i am also normally very critical of a large age gap relationship (especially when the younger of the 2... isn't even in their mid-late twenties yet). However I've noticed that it tends to reduce down a lot of times to either : the older one is manipulative/predator, or the older person's maturity was stunted in some way and they are functionally on the level of the younger person they are dating (but often have stagnated/stopped progressing). It certainly seems like the second one is the case for Sara's relationship, and it's very likely (although never a 'sure thing') that Sara will outgrow him and move on at some point. But, if he's a man that treats her well and doesn't try to assert authority over her or limit her chances/choices in life? What can you do but just be there for her if things don't work out and support her so that she knows she can still come to you instead of having to be defensive and hide things.

[@stareyedwitch]

Yeah. This relationship, especially if she's been in bad relationships before, could actually be good for her and help reaffirm her confidence and sense of selfworth. Besides, she might just be in the relationship to get at her parents. So long as they don't react poorly she might lose interest pretty quickly.

[@WishGender]

Honestly I think the boyfriend sounds like he may be autistic. I’m also autistic and I’ve always felt more comfortable hanging out and being friends with people a couple years younger than me. I personally would not date a teenager if I were over 25, because I think it’s pretty sus. But legally, they’re both adults, so there’s not much we can do

[@Resilient_Sage88]

Yeah I think this sounds like the second option for sure. She'll be happy hopefully as long as it lasts, but they'll probably grow apart eventually.

[@Silverwing28]

I agree, but if I am the parent of a child in a relationship like that, I would try everything to improve my relationship with my daughter, open up communications and try my very best to let my daughter know that she can always come to me about anything. I think should this person turn out to fall in category 1, the safest thing to do is to not judge but stay in touch with your daughter so she can get out. (so OP of that story did everything right so far).

[@Silverwing28]

@@WishGender Interesting, I'm autistic and most of my friends are between 10-20 years older than me. Although I only started really feeling comfortable with having older friends in my mid 20s.

[@lauraevans2104]

The last one. I can’t believe what OP is going through in their mind. I was in the opposite situation. My sister was a single parent of a young kiddo who ended up pregnant again by the same guy. She found out after he left her. She was a senior in HS. She told the fam she was going to put the youngest one up for adoption and I told her i’d take them. She told me it would be too hard for her to have her baby in the family and calling her sister mom. It was one of the hardest choices she ever made. My nieces parents are amazing and it’s an open adoption so my sister and her kids get to see their sister. The family dynamics of the brother just handing off their kid, like hold my spot, I’ll be back in a minute, so so just ugh.

[@HLB313]

Even calling him an “involved dad” - as a single father. How would he not be? That’s just actually being a parent.

[@clueingforbeggs]

Sorry for the double comment but what the heck? That brother forced his girlfriend to go through an unwanted pregnancy and then was like 'You could take this kid so you could avoid a wanted pregnancy'???

[@piaonomata9220]

Ooh, that third one. All kinds of yikes. It certainly doesn't do much for my impression that people who are pro-life AND insist on everyone else they have contact with ALSO being pro-life...that they really don't spend a lot of time thinking through the implications of their stances. To be clear, I have good friends who are pro-life...FOR THEMSELVES. They would never tell anyone else, even good friends or family members, to abide by their beliefs...and will even participate in rallies and protests to protect the freedom to choose. This family though--oy. Let's not lose sight of the fact that we are talking about a brother and sister (assuming they identify as male and female respectively, which I grant may not be accurate, but it's the best guess I can make). Look at what this "pro-life" family is asking each of them to do--the *boy* gets praised for forcing his girlfriend to carry a baby she never wanted, then excused from responsibility when it starts hitting home that a child may be an obstacle to him wanting to pursue his personal goals (never mind what Girlfriend wanted; she apparently just doesn't count here). NOW they're coming for Sister and basically saying SHE would be the selfish one for not just dropping her own plans and raising Brother's kid. There are some serious sexism and misogyny vibes coming off this family in addition to their ill-conceived (pardon the pun) beliefs.

[@mikaylaeager7942]

If your “pro-life” friends are defending others right to choose than they are pro-choice. There are many proudly pro-choice people out there who, were they to find themselves unexpectedly pregnant, would choose to have the baby. That’s a choice we are also protecting. Pro-Life is a meaningless propaganda term that we need to immediately stop using… call it what it’s is: anti-abortion, anti-choice, pro-forced pregnancy.

[@WelcomeApathy]

Sexism/misogyny is par for the course in forced-birthers like this.

[@ettinakitten5047]

If you're OK with other people having abortions, that's not pro-life. For an analogy, let's look at people who think it's OK to molest kids. If your attitude to that is "as long as it's not *my* kid I won't say anything", would anyone really say that person is opposed to molesting kids? If you genuinely see abortion as killing an innocent child, you can't say "I wouldn't have an abortion but I don't care if others do". And you especially can't be actively *helping* people have abortions if you're pro-life. WTF.

[@piaonomata9220]

@Ettina Kitten False equivalence. Try this one: people who are vegetarians, but don't feel it's their place to force other people not to eat meat. It's the recognition of the importance of personal choice and bodily autonomy, and the realization that no one has a corner on the truth market, that's important here. Don't get it twisted.

[@leza4453]

​@@ettinakitten5047you can solemny be convinced you would run in a burning building to save a life, even make that your profession. And at the same time be against forcing people to run into a burning building to save someone (regardless if they had something to do with the fire getting out of control or not). You can be convinced, that an embryo/fetus has a right to exist and develop and at the same time, that a pregnant person has a right of bodiliy autonomy and that only they can choose to risk their body for someone else's life (even if you think you personally would do this in any circumstance)

[@83gemm]

First off, you’re fabulous and if no one has told you lately, well, there you go. Second, this seems like a safe place to share this. I am absolutely knocked over with depression right now. But, I managed to work yesterday and today I mowed my very large lawn. I realize these are basic things that humans must do and most people won’t get why I’m so dang proud of myself, but those would be people who don’t understand I’m walking around physically hurting and drained with an endless audio loop in my brain telling me I’m useless (as well as other grim mantras). The fog, the muscle aches, the absolute weariness and self-hate didn’t keep me from getting things done. Even washed my hair (people with depression get it). Anyway, that’s my good news for today. Much love to everyone out there.

[@ladychaos2412]

Good for you 👍 I wish you all the best ❤️❤️❤️

[@Sophia048]

Lord. I really do get it 😢

[@danielledavenport9907]

So great you had those good days - I hope you enjoy many more ❤

[@TonySamedi]

The age gap relationship. The old rule I heard growing up was 'Half your age plus 7". So yeah, an 18 year old dating a 16 year old is acceptable, but a 22 year old dating a 16 year old sets off troubling vibes. at 37, the dude's cutoff would be around 25/26 I'm just saying, I'm not that far off from this dudes age, and I absolute could hold a conversation on pro wrestling and comic books, but I cannot imagine actually trying to date a teenager, or anyone under about 30 TBH.

[@BlazeNStar]

"I'm more worried our daughter will take advantage of he new moron boyfriend then the other way around" like I 100% understand this tbh. There is an age gap between me and my husband, and before my dad first met him my dad was like "don't let him take advantage of you, he might just want to get citizenship to escape the USA!" And then my dad met him and he was like "I thought you liked smart people. Has he ever had an idea before?" And he told my husband "man, you got to watch yourself, get your ass in gear, because my daughter has plans and is going places." Lol. But people just have different areas of intelligence, and in a dinner setting that might be their weak point, like my husband is an outdoorsy survival guy and also a tech nerd, he's not the dinner party guy, not the best at first impressions.

[@maxrodriguez3632]

The age gap one was definitely concerning especially with the stages of their life journey that they were in but there's not much you can do aside from just talking about it and letting them sort it out themselves especially since her boyfriend doesn't seem like a bad guy

[@kiarimarie]

That brother needs to raise his child. Parents need to help raise that child. The OP can certainly help out and be a super involved aunt and her kids can be super close to their cousin.

[@anna_in_aotearoa3166]

Oof. That last scenario just feels like an absolute textbook example of why pregnancy choice for mums is so essential and why the rights rollback we're seeing in places like the USA is so incredibly worrying? The argument is always called "pro-life" but it's the lives of kids (and often single mums) that get completely screwed up in these situations 😔

[@BroccoliAndCheese01]

As a foster/kinship child, the last one is incredibly upsetting. They pressured a woman to go through with a pregnancy she did not want, into a family that isn’t interested in actually caring for the baby… and now they’re trying to use them as a temporary placeholder in their daughter’s family, in spite of her own family planning. Adoption is NEVER not complicated and traumatic for the adoptee… and the actions of this family are adding layer after layer after layer of toxicity to an already difficult situation. Baby’s mother needs to be the one steering the ship on this one, because dad’s family (minus OP) is in all ways toxic.

[@meldanesetrilova7052]

FINALLY! Some reasonable common sense about age gap relationships. I’m so sick of the “he’s taking advantage, no exceptions”. I was 22 and bf was 37. No advantage taking, he’s a lovely guy and we were great together for 5 years, until future plans diverged. My mum was hesitant but once she met him was supportive. Be a parent, be supportive and look at the specific circumstances. In case it goes bad, you can’t support if you’d already destroyed the relationship.

[@faithpearlgenied-a5517]

I feel very sorry for the adoption one. Imagine your family trying to manipulate you like that, using an innocent baby like that. They should keep well away from those people and if they take the baby it should only be if the 'dad' signs over full custody to them and stays away.

[@phoenixdiricci6043]

Why is it that when the girlfriend got pregnant it was "She's made her bed" but when the brother decided he didn't want the responsibility of a child it was "Well, your sister can raise it." Absolutely not. NTA OP, stand your ground, this is a foot-down situation.

[@rage_of_aquarius]

I was always disturbed by age-gap relationships until I watched all of Modern Family. I was uncomfortable with it at first, but seeing Jay and Gloria together opened my eyes to how love really doesn't have such barriers and age is just a number (over 20).

[@stareyedwitch]

For the last one, regarding the mother's parental rights, we don't know if she has formally relinguished them. If she hasn't, then she could absolutely change her mind and try to claim the child. Depending on local laws, even if she has formally renounced her rights, it may be possible for her to regain them by agruing her boyfriend manipulated her into keeping the kid, and she relinguished them under duress. Which allow her to regain her rights. The whole situation could turn into a legal mess fast.

[@inkanddreams4677]

The last one reminded me of another story that I heard on Reddit, where basically a guy got his girlfriend pregnant and made the same agreement, if she didn’t abort then he would raise the kid on his own and she would leave to do her own thing. Issue is he thought the girl would have a last minute shift after giving birth and decide to raise it with him. When she did have the baby and leave him a single parent he was pissed, and after raising the kid for a while asked Reddit if he could sue her to make her come back and raise the kid. Obviously he couldn’t, but part of me is scared that this guy is banking on the same thing he was, and maybe he’s panicking because he realizes that the girlfriend he got pregnant will stick to the agreement and leave him with the kid.

[@WelcomeApathy]

I remember that one! I could see that. At the very least, this brother in this story clearly never thought he would actually have to own up to his responsibility.

[@Sophie_Cleverly]

I think everyone could benefit from detailed relationships education that explained things like potential difficulties with age gaps, power imbalances, different types of abusive behavior etc so they can make their own decisions. I dated someone close in age to me and had a really toxic relationship, and then dated someone 5 years older - lots of people said he was too old for me and my family were mad about it initially. But the second relationship was very loving and had great communication, and in fact we're still very happy 15 years later and have 4 year old daughter. I definitely think a really big age gap with a teenager should ring alarm bells, and I fear the dad is a bit naive for thinking the boyfriend seems nice and maybe not that intelligent and therefore can't be manipulative/abusive. He definitely still could be. But I do agree being supportive of the daughter and making sure she is aware of potential issues and has a way to leave the relationship safely is a better plan than trying to ban her from seeing him.

[@thompsonfj1]

I really want to know, on that last one, whether the biological mother of that baby is AWARE that her baby's father, who promised to care for the child if she went through the long and difficult journey of pregnancy to bring baby into the world, is trying to back out of that responsibility before baby is even born! Like, she did this extremely difficult thing because he said he wanted the chance to raise that baby - she was promised that if she carried and delivered that baby, he would be there to provide a good life for that child. And now that she's eight months in and has committed all this time and put up with all this discomfort and is anticipating the pain of birth, he's immediately gonna try to shove that responsibility off on somebody else. Would she have agreed to carry the child if she had known he wasn't gonna raise it? Unreal. That poor young woman. That poor child.

[@shaaba]

Great point!

[@elaexplorer]

That second one. If the grandparents are so concerned that their son won't be able to finish his degree then they can take the baby in until he's finished. But there will always be another reason why he couldn't possibly be expected to care for the child.

[@monetised4347]

People say relationships with big age gaps are weird and creepy because often there is a lot of weird and creepy stuff happening got to remember that the weird and creepy stuff is the problem and not the age gap

[@SLYKM]

That third one is infuriating. Didn't respect the pregnant woman's wishes, and now the parents want to disrespect OP's wishes. They want to use OP as a free foster bc son wants to go to college, it's not fair that everyone else, the gf, OP, and the baby, are going to be impacted by son's actions but they need to all be concerned for son's future. Nah.

[@kimberlyormesher3494]

That last story has boiled my blood. Calling someone selfish for not helping you after you forced another person to go against their will to align with your belief about what they should do with their body (yes it’s his kid but he doesn’t actually seem to care much about that considering he wants to avoid the responsibility whilst he’s at university) and then expecting your family member to give up her expectations for your decision is incredibly selfish. I don’t think he realised the commitment he was making and now he’s realising what a large responsibility he’s committed to

[@HippoPixel]

the third one, holy shit. i’m hurting not just for both the moms in this situation, but for the future child as well. no matter how they’re raised, they will be able to feel that they weren’t born into a fully accepting, caring and loving situation. honestly insane. i’m hoping the grandparents own up and take responsibility of the kid at least.

[@KaylaChan90]

My only issue with the age gap one is.... worry of if the guy would have dated her had they met 2 years earlier, or if they knew each other before that and he 'waited'. That's when that gets creepy I think.

[@ollygaetheirnandez]

even if she's a legal adult, she still doesn't have the maturity of someone in their mid twenties or older. 19 year-olds are still teenagers

[@KaylaChan90]

@@ollygaetheirnandez Hence the worries I listed above. But the world is large and everything is case by case. I'd never date someone with that age gap and in general not a fan of it. But the parent was doing what was best with what was happening at the time.

[@LadyQuotes]

The minute they called her selfish they lost me. If that was me, even if I was on the fence, I would be done. Zero chance now. Or, accept it, only provided they go no contact until the child is 18.

[@thelittlestpika]

The second one gave me the ick. I personally think that, unless the younger person has been an adult for longer, there's a weird power imbalance there that wouldn't be there with, say, a 30 year old and a 50 year old. I'm not saying OP is an a-hole but that's my opinion.

[@unapologeticallylizzy]

Honestly age gaps like that really make me go ugh. It is a trauma thing (my scout leader, I'd guess in his 50s, got sent to prison for doing stuff with 13-year-olds when I was around 12 and the thought of older men looking at me like that still terrifies the crap out of me) but yeah. Makes me shudder. When I'm so young, I really struggle to see it as anything other than predatory.

[@aurorafraire2528]

For the last one I think the brother and parents are being unreasonable because if the OP does end up taking the kid she and her husband could end up loving the child as their own and their kids could end up thinking of the eventual child as their own sibling and when the brother comes back for the kid, it could metaphorically rip her guts out and break her kids hearts. Like how do the parents and brother think it could work out for everyone? Either OP's kids hate the brothers kid, which would make the kid miserable or they love the brothers kid and would be miserable when the kid gets returned to their father.

[@SartorialDragon]

14:30 "when it comes to protecting your loved ones, selfish doesn't mean bad" ❤

[@SpiceGhouls]

My concern about the age gap one is that the boyfriend may have deliberately acted immaturely or like an 'imbecile' on purpose to manipulate the parents into trusting him/not worrying about Sarah. This is a tactic abusers use - they act nice as pie around everyone else so that the victim isn't believed when they disclose the abuse. Not to say OP is wrong about boyfriend he might be completely right, but it's something to bear in mind.

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

The thing about age gaps is that it really depends on the age of the younger person in the relationship far more than the actual size of the gap. 60 and 40? No problem. 35 and 25? That can work. 30 and 19? That’s a big no. If they’re still a teenager and you haven’t been a teenager in the past decade (and honestly even then I think even 4-5 years is still iffy), that’s just gross. That’s a situation which is rife for abuse or control or icky power dynamics, financial abuse, etc etc.

[@Rikrobat]

The third scenario is so frustrating and I feel really bad for OP. Her brother made the choice to engage in sexual activities with a girlfriend and pushed her to follow through with the pregnancy. Then insisted on legally taking ownership of the kid. But now, he wants to finish his degree and thinks pawning the child off on his sister is an appropriate course of action. Whether he’s being pressured by the parents or not, it doesn’t matter. He should be responsible for his actions. Shaaba is correct that it’s not wrong to ask OP if she would be fine with adopting the child, especially because she and her husband are thinking about having another child. But forcing the choice onto her and making her feel like she’ll be a horrible person if she says no is wretched.

[@RiverWoods111]

Large age gaps can be a sign of a controlling abusive person. I don't care if it is an older man dating a younger woman, or if it is same sex or an older lady dating a young man. This is just something to keep in mind when you get into a relationship where there is a large age gap. That said, it can happen when both partners are the same age. Therefore, it is more important to learn the signs of emotional and physical abuse and never walk past them regardless of age or any other factor. Stats, also show that more DV happens in religious homes, because of the teaching of most religions, and the fact is that it doesn't matter what religion it is across all religions. Again, it is important to learn the signals and not get too attached to the idea of being in a relationship and ignore any or all red flags. The fact is you can find abusers in all walks of life.

[@geeky_sasha6813]

Whenever hear of a much older man dating someone barely out of their teens, I always wonder about what the hell that man wants. However, the dad is right, daughter is technically an adult, and there’s nothing they can do about it. And OMFG that last one, definitely NTA. How will the child be denied love? Brother legally took responsibility, he should actually be responsible.

[@AynneMorison]

Case 1: "man card" seriously? are you in high school? YTA. Case 2: The 'child' is 19. Depending on where in the world they are that is a legal age to decide on their own path - whether the parents like it or not. Yep, I wouldn't trust Mr Ninja Turtle as far as I could throw him (I've been to too many sci-fi and fiction fan conventions) be ready to help or catch her, but if you push a legal adult you just get deeper trouble. Case 3: Daddy has to surrender all legal rights and be compelled to keep his mouth shut. Think about what would happen if they had the child until Daddy decides he's man enough now and takes the child. It could be years which leaves OP not only grieving the loss of that child but also possibly unable to conceive and carry the child she and her husband are planning for. Her parents are also manipulative assholes. She is absolutely Not The Asshole to turn down this "chance of a lifetime" - her parents are talking like this is permanent while I didn't hear anything about Brother dearest making that same claim - he just wants to finish the degree - her parents are going on about a 3rd child without the pregnancy. Big gap there.

[@MaggieValera]

My ex-husband was my neighbor, and we were casual friends for a while before we actually got together. We never asked each other's ages because it didn't matter. We just like each other. After we were intimate the first time, I realized that I didn't know how old he was, I almost had a heart attack when he said "21". First of all, he never seemed that young, and second (and most importantly) this was two weeks before my 38th birthday. I was very happy for the first 8 years, we got married on our 5 year anniversary; but as I was getting older and having health issues, he started feeling as though he didn't get a "misspent youth" like everyone else. Oddly enough, he didn't have an issue when he's friends were flying by the seat of their pants, but when they all settled down that's when he started feeling restless and as though he missed out. We divorced shortly before our 10 year anniversary. It was worth it. Maybe Sara will get the "I'm being left out feeling" also, or maybe they'll live together for the next 50 years. It's her relationship to navigate and she doesn't need anybody else's permission. But if you fight her on it she's just going to dig in her heels.

[@saltysis8]

The third AITA, is frustrating. The brother is trying to pawn off his responsibilities to someone else. He's the one that insisted on taking on the responsibility of a child, he should have to deal with the consequences of his actions, not the sister. He could rely on the family for help while getting his degree, but he shouldn't just pass off a baby because it's inconvenient for him. He's the one who insisted on the baby being born. 🙄

[@clueingforbeggs]

I think 18 years older as a 19-year-old is... Iffy, to be honest. It's not an age gap I'd be comfortable with any future children of mine being in, however I agree that I wouldn't do anything different. You can't force someone to not be in a relationship with someone, all you can do is be there to support them if they need you.

[@annabrown3337]

Age gap one always intrigues me. I married my husband when I was 18 and he was 29, but I did most of the chasing, he was very sweet and innocent still lived at home never had another serious relationship... we're still together 21 years later 😊

[@mikaylaeager7942]

Last one is so tricky!! Like you said, it’s not wrong for them to ask. If everyone is fully on board it could be an ideal situation for everyone involved. I’ve personally seen situations like this work in my own family. However once the question is asked it is entirely up to OP and their partner. They also don’t have to justify that choice to anyone. Anything beyond proposing the idea and accepting whatever decision OP makes is 100% manipulative asshole behavior.

[@krankarvolund7771]

Honestly, I don't feel it's tricky at all, the brother and the parents are jsut assholes ^^' The first red flag is how they present it, taht they're making OP a favour by proposing that. No, dropping a baby on someone is like never a favour, it's a huge thing they're asking of her, there's a huge difference between talking about a third kid, and having one in one month ^^' Second, the moment she's not even refusing but just asking for time, because she have to think about it, talk about it with her husband, a perfectly normal reaction, they start to culpabilize her and manipulate her so they agree with them, they probably did the same to the mother of the baby, it's disgusting. Third, it's a pretty simple situation, she have no obligations towards this child, and if she wants to adopt, it should be only her and her husband's descision, so if she says no, she doesn't need any other reason ^^'

[@mikaylaeager7942]

@@krankarvolund7771 The brother and parents are absolutely assholes. There was a good way to make such a big request. They didn’t do that in any way shape or form. OP is also absolutely not the asshole no matter what choice she makes. The tricky part is if this baby is going to be born, they should have the best life possible. It’s not OPs responsibility of course, but I would have a hard time making that choice were I in her place.

[@krankarvolund7771]

@@mikaylaeager7942 You could say that for dozens, hundreds of babies in your town today. But OP and everyone else don't care about them, because they're not happening in front of them ^^ I don't say that she's wrong or abnormal to feel guilty and shameful about it, I would probably be too in her place, just like I feel a little guilty when I pass a begger on the street and don't give anything. That guilt and shame is empathy and it's a good sentiment, most of the time. But in that situation, empathy is not a good advisor, the situation is just too shitty to be really practical, her husband don't really seem to be okay with that idea, she's not either, so it would be a baby they have out of obligation, not out of love. Plus, the brother is still alive and still the legal guardian, so he can probably come up later in life and ask to take the kid away, given that he's an asshole.

[@mikna5758]

"I could you possibly not want this baby that we don't want ourselves but forced to be born!!! YOU are selfish." The hypocrisy is nauseating 🤮

[@beckyevans889]

Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if the parents were the reason that the brother insisted that his girlfriend continued with the pregnancy. Clearly he is easily controlled by his parents, and they seem overly tight knit. In these scenarios, kids are treated as accessories, and nobody has genuinely considered the impact this will have on the child.

[@kokkinomalli]

My partner and I got together when I was 24 and he was 49. We have shared interests, values, and goals, and a really healthy relationship. We dated for six months before I told my parents. They were a bit skeptical but not judgemental and took a position of tolerance. My partner and I have been together for four years now. We're doing really well, have a wonderfully supportive relationship, and my family are completely accepting at this point. They are genuinely fond of my partner and he's part of the family now. We get so much judgement from strangers and I'm glad I haven't had that from my parents. I understand why people are skeptical and have concern, but I wish people would listen when I said that my relationship is safe and healthy. *sigh*

[@shaaba]

thanks for sharing, I'm glad you're in a healthy relationship and have the support you deserve from your loved ones (:

[@MeltedBrains89]

Regarding the last post, if OP's husband agrees to it, the complicated family dynamics will stem from OP's brother and not the children. Children adapt to anything. When I was 9 years old my parents offered to adopt my 12 years old cousin because we were better off and wanted to give my cousin a stable enviroment and back then I didn't think it was weird

[@notreallyhere2597]

Look how the responsibility of this kid is passing from woman to woman when the father is trying to get out of it anyway. This guy wants the kid but at the same time he doesn't want to take care of it. Nope. Absolutely not. Grow up sir. You are a daddy now, congratulations 🎉

[@Jellybeansatdusk]

So he forced her to have a baby she didn’t want because he wanted it SO bad, he wanted it SO bad that he jumped on the first chance to pawn it off to the nearest person at the earliest possible convenience. That poor pregnant woman 😭

[@alyj6398]

3rd story: Her brother, by insisting on the continuance of the pregnancy and the signing away of the mother's rights, is that child's parent. If he didn't want that responsibility, he should have deferred to the girlfriend's wishes to begin with. If the parents were pulling the brother's strings as well as the girlfriend's, and they're the ones insisting on that child being born, then they can take custody. Not just give the child to the first family member who indicates that they have a desire for another child in their family.

[@SuperIcelight]

I feel like the only way I'd consider taking in that child was through legal adoption, with no custody rights to the brother. It's fair that op doesn't want to, but I think if they decided to do it, they'd have to make sure the brother couldn't come and claim the kid back. Give him an ultimatum: I'll raise the child as my own, and you'll never get it back. You'll be an uncle and nothing more, ever. He's definitely the asshole. God, what a poor kid.

[@drunkmanta]

I think the problem with big age gaps in relationships (especially people until their 20s) can have a MASSIVE power imbalance, even when they don’t mean to have it. yes we shouldn’t judge other people but a 19 year old can stil get groomed. it’s about being extra careful in recognising grooming and toxic behaviour in those relationships.

[@rayhem]

he forced a person who did not want to create life to birth a whole human being for HIM. and now he's trying to back out? horrible

[@mandipandi303]

I can 100% see my family pulling what the last poster was dealing with. I dearly hope that OP reached out to the pregnant girlfriend and informed her of what OP's brother was doing. Unfortunately, in some states, OP's brother will have immediate rights to the child regardless of the mother's wishes (literal r*pists have been granted custody of children here in the US). We can only hope that OP's family realizes them having this mindset towards this child may not make them the best suited to raise it well, and they should seriously consider finding a family who really wants the child, as it doesn't appear the brother nor grandparents do. Not enough to actually take full responsibility for the child, anyway. I just hate that the girlfriend had her bodily autonomy taken stay from her. But that's been a thing even before Roe v Wade was overturned. Many states mandated that you inform the biological father to offer him the child before allowing you to terminate a pregnancy. If that was a domestic abuser, your r*pist, a one night stand, too bad. No choices for you. You had to give in or search for the person until it was too late to terminate. Our system was already horrible, and it'll only get worse now.

[@shaaba]

I wish there was a hug button on here x

[@MUNMOMUU]

The age gap one - maybe this is me projecting, but the man gives me autistic vibes. He has niche and unusual interests, is in a relationship which people would deem inappropriate, and seemingly doesn't know how give a good first impression by reading the social situation. I am not saying he couldn't be a manipulative person, even if he was autistic or not, but I am surprised no one has pointed this out. Anyway, I think this relationship is between Sara and the man, and if they are happy, good for them. All her parents can do is to actually support her and be there if something goes wrong.

[@krystlepoulin6382]

So suddenly, the pro-lifer wants the CHOICE of not being a responsible parent...🙄 That's pro-birth, not pro-life.

[@sharonsomers5342]

I married a man who was embroiled in a custody battle. It took up thousands of hours and over a hundred thousand dollars in costs to keep custody from a mother who had serious drug and alcohol problems. It's awful and the only thing that made it worth it was that child grew up to be as normal and happy as we could manage. And that figure isn't an exaggeration. In the states, you can have primary custody and be required to give child support to the non-custodial parent in order to allow them to have visitation in a safe environment. It's shocking, disgusting, and absolutely abhorrent. I witnessed a court case (thankfully not ours, we were waiting for our turn) where the custodial dad and stepmom got custody and the bio mom got 4 hours of supervised visitation. And dad had to pay over $3k a month in child support so she would have someplace to take the child during that time. They were never married. But the judge felt that because he cheated on his wife that he should support the person who he slept with after getting very drunk at his friend's bachelor's party. He had tried to press charges for rape as the video showed her disregarding his 'no' over and over until he passed out and she went ahead. The DA refused to take the case because the bio mom said she was also drunk and they were in a situation where that sort of thing happens. Yes, she was one of the strippers. I was horrified. Reading this, you should be horrified too. Everybody should think long and hard about whether they are willing to step into that court battle. Because "what's best for the child" almost always ends up being a very complicated thing. So they try to balance the income of the partners in order to make both households capable of caring for the child. And even with a rock-solid adoption, it can be changed if you get a sympathetic judge. So on the off chance that she decides to keep that baby my best advice would be to get a lawyer to draft adoption papers that do not allow any rights to the bio mom and dad. And then move far away. If you can't do that, don't do it. You will have backseat drivers the whole time and a possible legal battle that will sap all of your income. Because bio dad would be in the family as an uncle, they can go to the court any time they feel like it and you can win every single time and still be out about $5-10k every time it happens.

[@Theo-nc5yd]

Shaaba always brings me such good vibes like when she smiles I can't help but do the same 😁💗

[@knate44]

For the second one OP isn’t an asshole for approving of Thomas, he is an asshole for calling him a “moron” in the post.

[@dreamingstrawberries]

Op is NTA for letting the relationship happen as there's nothing much you can do. However, I don't like the way he talks about his daughter like she is more likly to manipulate him. It's like he's no longer thinking about protecting his daughter just because she's disobedient and he's nerdy. This is how I took it but respectfully comment your thoughts

[@mikukurisaki3413]

Brother ahole of the story: 'Hey, I want you to have this child because it's my belief you shouldn't terminate' Also brother ahole: it's inconvenient for me right now, you take it. Brother is the big a-hole and the parents siding with him are also a holes. Possibly to a greater degree due to their stepping in on this. You're not the one being 'selfish' here.

[@tweak8866]

That third one. Oh my! IF i took the kid, I would require the brother to give up all rights and I would ensure the mother is absolutely included to any degree that she wants, including keeping the child if she so chooses. I would also have to be prepared to go no contact with my family. Knowing they were that manipulative from the start, they would never stop interfering with the way you raise the child.

[@shaaba]

Big oh my! thanks for sharing

[@Elwene2fr]

Something is missing about the 2nd story. OP mentioned they talked about it with their wife but not with Sara. As someone said it perfectly, you need to keep the communication lines open for her to come to you if there ever is an issue. I hope they talked to her to explain why this age gap is concerning and why they don't like it but still respect her choice and are there to support her and protect her. COMMUNICATION IS KEY! Even/Especially with your kids/teens.

[@Hair8Metal8Karen]

I was just about to type "being selfish isn't always a bad thing" and then you said it too.

[@VulcanTrekkie45]

OP on that last one would absolutely not be the asshole. That family needs to learn to live with the consequences of their actions. And if I were OP I'd absolutely tell them that. They're pro-life, and it sounds like OP isn't, so it's totally on them to deal with that fallout.

[@areyoulostbbg]

I think that a lot of people have already expressed very valid reasons why we should have at least some alarm bells ringing when there's a big age gap, especially when one of the parties is barely an adult or younger. What I did want to comment on is the father's final assessment of the guy because, perhaps due to my own experiences, did not sit right with me at all. I think it's incredibly naive and dangerous, especially as a parent who's supposed to protect their child, to completely let your guard down and underestimate someone who has a lot of power to harm your daughter. I don't think much could have been done differently but I just wish he'd continue to keep an eye on the situation to make sure that he doesn't miss signs of his daughter being mistreated, manipulated, or anything of the sort. Even full grown adults still sometimes need external insight to recognize bad situation and help to get out of them. So, I do hope that they continue communicating and that he takes his wife's concerns to heart. Not to take harsh actions or be hard on the guy, but just to be a little bit more careful.

[@SandraLugn-nc1rk]

Poor baby 😭😭😭. It is a baby that several people could practacly and finally take care of the father, (maby the mother), the aunt and (maby the grandparents). But no one wants is! ESH! This is way I am pro choice.

[@stephaniecuzner8147]

My grandpa married my step grandma when she was 19. My dad was 12 at the time. She was his secretary, so they were just checking off stereotypes. They're still together over 50 years later and very much in love. My step grandma is actually far more independent and outspoken than my grandma, his first wife, so much harder to manipulate, if that's what my grandpa was looking for (which he wasn't). So, yeah, I don't have a problem with age gap relationships as long as it started when both parties were adults. My step grandma is fully aware she fell in love with an older man. Age gaps don't necessarily indicate abusive or manipulative relationships.

[@pmbluemoon]

Last one is tricky. I come from a situation that no one knows for sure who my parents were until grandma and bio dad passed away. I've always known I was a mistake, but to know someone else's kids can feel the rejection I have had all my life, it breaks my heart because I've lived it. Kids shouldn't be things to barter, trade and such. They are beings who need to be loved, supported and not feel like they're an afterthought or an inconvenience at any point in their lives. I've always felt either unloved, unwanted, or an inconvenience to my bio parents who got divorced 2 weeks before I was born because bio dad didn't agree I was even his. My mom raised me, and at once point even apologized for having me (long story). I hope this kid will be take3n care of no matter where it ends up, and not have to feel that sting I've felt most of my life.

[@shaaba]

Thanks for sharing

[@simplybet8104]

I feel so bad for that kid

[@Silverwing28]

I feel so sorry for that kid. Just to be clear, whatever OP decides, they are in no way shape or form TA in this scenario, the brother is. But that kid is going to grow up with a father like that and grandparents like that? Poor baby. Poor bio mum of that baby too. Should OP (and family) even feel comfortable taking the kid, I think they should be able to legally adopt the kid and have the father and grandparents sign away their rights. Keep that baby far away from them. But, OP will never be the AH for refusing.

[@ליזהנורט]

It's a baby, not a damn goldfish, the brother said he'll raise him so he needs to raise him, it's that simple. The family sounds horrifying for putting this kind of pressure on op

[@Victoria-fp8nc]

Not the dad saying he's worried about the 37 year old man child being manipulated 😂😂

[@lilyE888]

With the Taylor swift story-my dad and my friends dad took me and my friend to the Taylor swift Red tour concert when I was in middle school and it was one of the happiest memories of those difficult years for me!

[@anna_in_aotearoa3166]

That is such a sweet story! 💖 Not my musical scene personally, but love the fact both parents were up for challenging the still-existing prejudices around this and making an unforgettable night possible for you & your friend!