What Is The Best Filter To Remove Ammonia Final Results

[@da-waterlily]

Love the test! Straightforward and nice to see validated results to common beliefs as to what should be occurring.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thanks so much!

[@thehairywoodsman5644]

GOOD MORNING Fishman and everybody else !

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Good morning to you as well! Thanks for coming by!

[@HalfManHalfCichlid]

Regarding the sponge filter, what is the history of it's use to give the reader an idea of how much beneficial bacteria it has? I would be interested too in the nitrate readings to see how effective the plant filter is in consuming nitrogen compounds relative to the sponge?

[@capnspicy5565]

Plants don't uptake nitrate unless ammonia and nitrite are not available, And the sponge filter would need to be thick enough or have a low flow rate to have a low (anoxic) to no (anaerobic) oxygen zone to convert nitrate to nitrogen gas.

[@HalfManHalfCichlid]

@@capnspicy5565 plants will of course consume the ammonia added in this experiment- we know this quite well. The question is whether the plants consumed all or most of that ammonia such that no nitrate was produced by bacteria via the nitrogen cycle,

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Sponge filters are very popular and are great for mechanical and biological filtration. They do not remove nitrate if properly maintained. I am running several long term planter filters and I find the nitrate to be under 10 ppm. This result though is due to balancing the plant and animal life. You can't expect great nitrate removal with fewer plants and a highly populated aquarium. Hope that helps.

[@MELODYMUNRO]

I am growing a sweet potato in one of my tanks. The roots are massive and the stems and leaves must be growing 4-6 inches every day ... maybe you could add sweet potato to the test list.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I am actually planning some terrestrial plants for this kind of thing. Thanks for the suggestion Melody! How have you been?

[@MELODYMUNRO]

@@FishmanEricRussell been well, busy with my tanks, I bought discus for the first time a few months ago. Now getting ready for University, I start the final semester for my Masters Degree in 10 days. I have been at University for 5 years. Bachelor of Human Services and Master of Arts (Writing Major). It's going to feel weird when I am done.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

@@MELODYMUNRO I know what you mean. That first September after I was done felt so weird. Best of luck have a congratulations in advance. You'll do great!

[@jackanddan]

UG UG UG UG UG awesome Fishman....we look forward to more....we will be doing some more videos on our filters coming up....we have added more plants too....amazing how everything is working out!

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Hey guys! There seems to be enough interest in this to continue. Looking forward t seeing what you have coming up. Thanks as always for your continued support!

[@ShaneZettelmier]

Weird. If there’s not something dead in there or decaying. The only thing I can think of would be the seating process or the level of beneficial bacteriaIn the filters. Like if they were in a low ammonia tank it just didn’t grow nearly as much as compared to something in a tank with more fish that’s going to grow a lot more beneficial bacteria

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Hey Shane! It's certainly the odd one out. I really need to repeat this. Thanks for coming by!

[@PhillipsFish]

So you have an established planted tank with around 25-30% total plant area, a pile of lava rock that already has bacteria through out it, a planter pot that also has bacteria all over it, and then you have all the dirt or whatever is used in the potter to also home bacteria, and rocks and so on. And then you have a seeded sponge filter that may be rated at maybe 10 gallons at best with nothing else... yeah that's really a fair test... First if your going to do tests like this make sure the playing field is equil. Identical tanks, with new water added the same in both tanks, then add new not already cycled media to the tanks. If you are going to do sponge filter vs plants then use a new sponge filter and the selected plants only. If the plant must be in a bed of sorts make sure the bed and pot are new and not already seeded with bacteria. Then feed the tanks with pure ammonia to start the bacteria groth and test daily untill both tanks are cycled. That is the only way to get accurate results in a test of this sort. The bio load that the seeded sponge filter was used for will vary and may even vary greatly to th bio load of the planted tank. So if the bio load wasnt the same then you will never get an accurate test.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

You have obviously not been following this whole experiment. The planter filter was a request from a viewer. I'm not going to strip down all of my tanks to run this. I used an established setup because all of the other filters were established and this setup would be the easiest to run this test and then go back to using for what it was set up for. If I have time and there is interest I may rerun this but for the moment I have more requests than I can keep up with.

[@anoxicfiltrationplenums]

The test you conduct, it was already done by Eheim and they came up with the 72 hour mark for ammonia to become non-toxic. This test was done quite a few decades ago with their canister filters.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Hey Kevin! I didn't know you watched my channel. I always like to test things out for myself. I never really trust what companies say about their products. Too much money involved. I still have a couple of old filters of theirs around. I should add them to this to see what comes of it. Thanks so much for coming by and sharing your thoughts!

[@anoxicfiltrationplenums]

@@FishmanEricRussell I watch a lot of peoples channels and your experiment prove what Eheim had proved decades ago. Keep up the good work. People really don’t know that it takes about 72 hours to break down ammonia whether it’s plants or bacteria. You also proved a plant uses ammonia first before nitrates. 👍

[@FishmanEricRussell]

@@anoxicfiltrationplenums Thanks so much Kevin! Come by any time and share your knowledge. Making contacts and sharing knowledge is why I do this

[@dynasty76088]

The tank on the right had the advantage of having bacteria already on the surfaces of the lava rock, substrate of the plants, and walls(it looks as if they weren't cleaned spotless like the sponge filter tank).

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Quite possible. It's been a while since I posted this and I don't remember the particulars

[@AlpacaMade]

Now I have to ask, What's wrong with my thought process that I am not as surprised as you seem to be? My initial conclusion without the undergravel results was; a balance of deep root feeders and column feeders with or without a mechanical component, in this case the sponge, is the way to go in general. Maybe it is just my Walstadt-ian bias?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

When I started all of this, I had certain preconceived notions. Having them proved wrong wasn't the problem as it just turned out to be slower than I had always thought. It's the UG results that seem out of line. I'm going to repeat them and a few others to see how repeatable they are and then have another look at the overall results. Thanks for coming by and sharing your thoughts on this!

[@bhopper3]

I'd like to see results from a undergravel, box, sponge and HoB. I also would like to see one for trickle, canister and sumps.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

There seems to be enough interest in this that I will be continuing more experimentation, at least until I get repeatable results. Thanks for watching!

[@bhopper3]

@@FishmanEricRussell Thanks for your time.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

@@bhopper3 Any time!

[@nimaseyedmortazavi]

Fishman, I am not 100% sure, but I think your test is based on wrong parameters. You are comparing Sponge filter to Plant filter based on ammonia consummation. Ammonia, are consumed by Nitrosomonas bacteria and some by plants. However, Nitrosomonas bacteria are usually produced very fast and they live mostly in Water itself. So you comparing ammonia consummation in a tank with water and plant, and in another tank with water and no plants, and in these cases, ofcourse tanks with water and plants always win. On the other hand, for eliminating Nitrite that is the by product of Nitrosomonas bacteria, you need Nitrobacter and Nitrospira bacteria. These bacteria (Nitrobacter/Nitrospira) are not as fast growing as Nitrosomona and usually take some time to produce and they best grown on surfac area ((stone, aquarium wall,etc..) and here come the filter in place. your sponge filter in your test offer the best and biggest surface area in your aquarium to grown Nitrobacter/Nitrospira. So make your test again, but this time, use Nitrite test, and make sure that you use and already established sponge filter (an sponge filter from your other aquarium that already have established colonisation of Nitrobacter)

[@MrOnlymoin1]

yes please run a nitrite test too..that will be a bit more insightfull i suppose.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

This experiment was originally intended for testing to see which filter eliminates ammonia best. It has since expanded somewhat. Redoing all of the test to include nitrite is more than I'm willing to take on at the moment. Maybe in the future. When it comes to doubling times Nitrosomonas is around 7ish Hrs. and Nitrobacter 13. All of the filters used are aged and even though Nitrosomonas is motile it is present in all of the filters since none of them were cleaned prior to the experiment. Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts on this!

[@kkyogish]

Interesting. Can we have an update on these experiments..

[@FishmanEricRussell]

It's been a while since these experiments. My favorite is a box filter to a high humidity planter. You will see them in the current build I'm doing

[@KoiRun50]

I've recently used a Hanna Total Chlorine meter as a photometer to read colours on my API nitrate tests and did a video. I think this instrument is highly accurate. What the instrument did was gave relative numbers that I assigned to 'known' nitrate levels. I suppose one can do the same with the drop test for ammonia. Please have a look and tell me what you think. I would really appreciate it.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

That sounds very cool! I will definitely look into that as my color vision is terrible. At least that's what my wife says lol.

[@davidcooper9432]

Very interesting summary... thanks for doing all this experimentation. Glad it's you and not me!

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I certainly opened up a can of worms lol! Thanks for coming by!

[@na1du]

Would love to see a similar experiment for nitrates!

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Removing nitrates is a different process. Most of these filters won't do anything. The filters with lots of plant in them are the ones that would work. I will give this some thought and see if there are enough types to make a test useful. Thanks for coming by!

[@TheMudiver]

I didn't see and anoxic plenum filter which IMHO without its results as it the oldest filter system from the 50s to 60s it tells us a lot. Its a low cost filter system but requires the understanding on how its set up.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I used them in the past and now prefer the high humidity planters as the look nicer and work really well. Thanks for coming by!

[@thomasrothchild9700]

Thanks for doing these experiments. Very informative! Aside from when experimenting, what is your primary method for “cycling” a newly setup tank?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thanks Thomas! I'm very patient when it comes to setting up new tanks. I will take the filter and put it in one of my older tanks and let it run there. Then I will put it and a bunch of plants and cleaning crew into the new tank. After a couple of days I start adding fish, while keeping an eye on how everybody is doing

[@charlesabbethy490]

Anoxic filtration .... Fact or Fiction ??? If you could test Dr. Novak's theory I think we'd all appreciate it. The controversy is getting pretty deep on KZbin.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

It does work. Unfortunately it is one of those things that takes patience and a level of knowledge. I prefer aerobic filters hooked up to planter filters for my denitrification. They are easier to explain to people and are easier to maintain. Thanks for coming by!

[@charlesabbethy490]

@@FishmanEricRussell I was thinking about your leak proof canister filter. Do you think it is possible it does both, at different levels of the lava rock, as nature does in soil.🐸

[@FishmanEricRussell]

@@charlesabbethy490 Yes it does, but again it is one of those filters that takes quite a while to set up. The clear version I made is doing quite well now but it has been 9 months

[@ejbrinegar]

Dear Eric: Although sponge filters may remove ammonia as well as plants, in the long run, a planted tank certainly looks nicer than an aquarium without flora. Thank you for conducting these, interesting experiments and sharing the information with us. All my best, Sincerely, E. J. Brinegar

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Hey Brinegar! I'm so glad you like what I do here!

[@FKJ_WORLD]

an impressive share my friend and brotha. Thanks for this Ideas are now flowing on myside....hahahahah

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thanks so much Raliegh! Always a pleasure!

[@jlphoto1143]

Hmm.. just thinking out loud here, but.. could this result be due to the growth rate of Nitrosomonas and Nitrobacter ? I have read that they have a lag time of up to 3 days before exponential growth happens. (..something to do with salinity levels, I think.. not sure.. I'm NOT an expert on this). Anyways, thanks for all the vids. I always find them interesting.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

There are issues with how fast replication occurs with these bacteria, but I'm using fully mature filters to try and eliminate that factor. My original intent for this experiment was to see which filter was better at dealing with an ammonia spike. It certainly has grown since then. I do plan to continue these until I get consistent and repeatable results. If nothing else it will fill my time lol. Thanks for coming by!

[@unclejimmy3878]

In theory, would this mean with an ammonia source, such as fish, the planter filtration would be more efficient in keeping up with the regular increase of ammonia??

[@FishmanEricRussell]

It would seem to be the case. I had thought that it would actually be even faster. I need to do more with this. Thanks for coming by!

[@cristianchan5402]

love the plumbing set-up.... ❤❤

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thanks so much!

[@A.76-v4z]

Nice comparsion mate

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thanks so much!

[@MrOnlymoin1]

yes please re run the under gravel filer experiment.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Will do. Thanks for watching!

[@FredHOleniuk]

Could the poorer results with the undergravel filter be related to flow through the filter? The larger surface area would have less flow than the other filters. If in fact the ammonia affected some of the bacteria the slower flow would not flush the undergravel filter as well as the other filters. With less flow would there be more anaerobic areas in the undergravel filter? Very interesting results. Thanks Fred O

[@Pittigpiertje]

Possibly the issue is that the surface area of UG filters are overrated and maybe that most of the water likely get sucked through a small portion (the easiest route).

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Hey Fred! There is something strange going on with this for sure. I'm going to repeat this UG test and see if I get the same results. I will be using one of the updated UGs I've put together to get around any circulation issues. We will see what that does. Thanks for your thoughts on this!

[@aravinias]

Try an anoxic clarification basket

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I've tried anoxic. Not a fan. Thanks for watching!

[@KoiRun50]

Can you give us how much food (approx. in mg per day) each of the filters were being fed just before the experiment? This will give us an idea how much each filter has to ramp up to your dose of ammonia. I really enjoyed this experiment btw.

[@FishmanEricRussell]

All of the tanks that these filters came from have about the same load. I tried to keep that even so to have some consistency for the experiment. I will measure the amount of food for you for the next update on this. Thanks so much for coming by!

[@KoiRun50]

@@FishmanEricRussell I went back to some of your videos. I really like your science stuff. New subscriber. And thanks!!

[@FishmanEricRussell]

@@KoiRun50 Thanks so much and welcome!

[@i8dpie]

I force tulip and hydrangea bulbs in water and they have tons of roots, is it safe to use them in a plant filter over the tank or float them in the tank?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I'm not familiar with the toxicity of these particular plants. It probably wouldn't be an issue anyway as people use pothos all the time and it is toxic. Having them in some kind of over the tank planter filter should be fine. Let me know how this works out if you go ahead with it. I would love to know as I am branching out with more and more terrestrial plants

[@deadfred821]

So now the question is, retest of the undergravel aside; will you be repeating the entire experiment to ensure consistency?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I'm going to start with the UG and then move on to some others. In the end I suspect I will repeat as many as I can to ensure that I'm getting accurate results and of course repeatable results. Thanks for watching!

[@camerazeye7923]

Would the density of the sponge.. i.e. the flow of water through it have any effect on results?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I would say it would but so far the results, with the exception of the UG, seem to reasonably comparable so probably not enough to be detectable with these conditions. Thanks for watching!

[@capnspicy5565]

You should test an algea scrubber

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Since there seems to be enough interest in this continuing I do plan on trying out some more filters. An algae scrubber of some kind would be a great addition. Thanks!

[@marcsantos272]

what brand of test kit you use thanks

[@FishmanEricRussell]

I actually don't like using test kits. I just used them for this experiment. Sorry

[@djssquibbs3295]

thank you! saludos desde Costa Rica :)

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thank you for taking the time to watch!

[@saiaquarium5945]

Thanks for sharing 👍

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thank you for watching!

[@AndyP126]

What brand of test kit is that?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

It is from Salifert

[@fishtropiccanada4747]

Interesting 🤔

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Thanks!

[@shubhammaharana3349]

What is planter filter???

[@FishmanEricRussell]

Any filter which uses plants to remove fish wastes

[@richardwaldhouse8067]

Results surprisingly unexpected?

[@FishmanEricRussell]

That's for sure Richard! I need to do more work with this. Thanks for coming by!