What is the difference between Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White?

[@Dahnnylee]

PLEASE take us down the wizard staff rabbit hole

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

But from a Freudian perspective.

[@jefffinkbonner9551]

I told you to take the wizard’s STAFF rabbit hole!!

[@Daniel-rd6st]

"A wizard when young has a staff that is small It's puny and weak, ineffective withall It grows with his power until it stands tall As his fame and his glory expand As his fame and his glory expand A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A knob on the end a knob on the end The staff of a wizard can hold many spells For finding lost objects or dowsing new wells For banishing demons to bottomless hells And bringing them back on demand And bringing them back on demand A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A knob on the end a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A wizard's staff has a knob on the end A knob on the end a knob on the end When a wizard is old, and is starting to fade He looks on his staff that with cunning he made The crown of his life and the tool of his trade Together they make their last stand And together they make their last stand A wizard's staff has a knob on the end" Nanny Ogg ;-)

[@danielharten4890]

Yes please

[@NickRosaci]

I want this, too!

[@Jamie-666]

I've just learned that Christopher Lee watched the entire trilogy on his deathbed! What a great and lovely man, RIP.

[@scotthammond3230]

That badass fought in the Winter War defending Finland from Russian aggression.

[@skzion2]

What a cool way to leave this world. How many have his accomplishment and modesty.

[@skzion2]

​@@scotthammond3230I didn't know that.

[@henrikg1388]

​@@scotthammond3230 He never actually "fought", even if he wanted to. Every British subject was prohibited by law to do so.

[@hervigdewilde3599]

@@henrikg1388 Yet people still do it, even today... 😋

[@johnupper5225]

Kudos for producing dozens of LoTR deep dives that always reveal the richness of that world, and do so concisely and without overreaching.

[@gohabs8918]

Seriously the best fictional universe. I love it It always gets me knowing all this, and more, lived in one persons head. Blows my mind

[@vkohli17]

A couple of things a lot of people tend to miss: Gandalf the White mused that he was more "perilous" than anyone else in middle-earth, save for Sauron himself. Can't quite remember when but I think it was a response to Gimli when the latter called Fangorn perilous. Also, Gandalf emphasized that he was sent back naked - I think this is significant. He had the choice now (and not a mandate) to pick white over grey, and take upon more responsibility with his new power. And he did.

[@jamesvalle9079]

You're right, it was in response to Gimli. Gimli called Fangorn "dangerous," and Gandalf tells Gimli that he is surrounded with dangers, (meaning himself, Aragorn, and Legolas), and tells Gimli that he, Gandalf, is the most dangerous person Gimli will ever meet unless he he is dragged before the throne of the Dark Lord himself.

[@DavidGarcia-kw4sf]

I think the "naked" comment also refers to physical form. As an angel, he would be pure spirit, like the other Valar and Maiar. His body, like theirs, is a form of garment that he can wear.

[@dandiehm8414]

He didn't pick white. Galadriel clad him in Elven white.

[@toocoolforcuddles]

@@DavidGarcia-kw4sfnot quite. When Sauron was killed, he wasn’t killed entirely, he just lost his ability to form a body. Same with Saruman. Of the Maia, only Sauron seemed to be able to change his form and I don’t recall the Valar being able to change shape. The way the Istari appeared is ambiguous; it could be a literal shapeshift or they could have been disguised by some Valar magic

[@Daniel-rd6st]

@@toocoolforcuddles Personally i think that all Maia (and Valar) for that matter, when not limited in their power, can choose their bodys as they see fit. After all, they dont have a physical body to begin with, so someone has to decide their physical form and its probably themselves, though some where probably better at it than others. Sauron could, as we know. I also think that this is the reason, why it was impossible to find Radegast, when he didnt want to be found. On those occassions he simply might have shapeshifted into an animalform. After all, he is quite literally described as "master of shapes and changes of hue", which to me strongly hints at the ability to shapeshift.

[@lmr4403]

Also a good difference to note is that on the council of Elrond, Gandalf was "merely" an advisor. Before going to the Black Gate in Minas Tirith, the lords of the west choose Gandalf to be their leader.

[@lordundeadrat]

JRRT liked him some self fulfilling prophecies. Saruman basically begins his path down the road to tyranny because he was suspicious of Gandalf. He believied that the grey wizard coveted his position as the highest wizard. Something that couldn't have been further from the truth. But every step he took to empower himself against Gandalf only strayed him from the path the Valar entrusted him with. Cementing the Valar eventually abandoning him in favor of Gandalf. All he had to do was be a good steward to MiddleEarth. All the power and authority he could ever want would have been his.

[@MrNicoJac]

I fully agree! Saruman served himself, and eventually lost his position because of it. Gandalf got Saruman's position precisely because he served others instead of himself. A worthy lesson indeed....

[@Lost_Evanes]

the only point i dont get here is, why saruman (Curumo) was chosen as a head of istari in the first place, not only gandalf originally was a maiar under the Manwe himself (higher authority) but also saruman was from aule's people just like sauron which should have been a red flag of some sort, this whole thing looks like a setup for him to get screwed...

[@rightousIke]

I often wonder if the ring of power gandalf received went to saruman if he stays good?

[@eds1942]

His biggest problem was his pride or ego. He believed himself to be more intelligent than the others, yet he lacked wisdom. He believed that he was more crafty and skilled than Sauron, yet he lacked both the resources and power of will. He was arrogant at the cost of respect. All of those pros awarded him his position as head of their order and of the White Council. All of those cons led him to take the dark path.

[@Final-tt5bo]

@@Lost_Evanes IIRC the elven leaders all favored Gandalf but he declined the leadership position. It's a big reason that Saruman was envious of him.

[@alwaysbroke6533]

Gandalf the gray is your cool uncle you smoke with in the garage. Gandalf the white is the uncle that asks you what your major is and might help you out a little if you pick the right one.

[@taitano12]

I felt like Gandalf the White was a mix of the two.

[@korye6324]

Or Gandalf the White is the one you smoke with on the eve of the battle in Minas Tirith

[@patrickb1303]

Gandalf the white still blazes

[@raistlarn]

Except under it all Gandalf the White is still the cool uncle.

[@10ftSamsquanchy]

The white is the cool uncle who reads lots of sci-fi and still smokes weed, but will want to have meandering esoteric dialogue about metaphysics and existentialism, which he thinks is total bullshit, but still likes doing the thought experiments.

[@BrandoJulianWindsor7]

Aside from the power up and change of clothes. Gandalf becoming The White is necessary to round out his character arc. Gandalf was initially fearful and hesitant to face the forces of dark even before arriving in middle earth (Eru had to give him a nudge) and we see this reflected throughout the story in times when he's doubtful of his abilities or what actions to take. His resurrection as the White symbolizes him stepping into his full courage and confidence, both in power but more importantly in character.

[@dandiehm8414]

Eru didn't give him the nudge - Manwe did.

[@BrandoJulianWindsor7]

@dandiehm8414 Oop I stand corrected, I was thinking how in the grand scheme of things it was Eru's plan but yes I remember now it was Manwe.

[@dandiehm8414]

@@BrandoJulianWindsor7 No worries - simple mistake to make. 🙂

[@jonesj99]

"Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White.... And Monty Pythons and the Holy Grails Black knight" Still in my head all these years later

[@DariatheDaring]

Benito Mussolini And the blue meanie Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the genie

[@raistlarn]

Robocop, Terminator, Captain Kirk and Darth Vader.

[@douglaswolfen7820]

Lo Pan, Superman, every single power ranger…

[@DariatheDaring]

@ bill s Preston and Theodore Logan Spock The rock Doc oc and hulk hogan

[@Zlaterrr]

This is the ultimate showdown

[@Cosper79]

Best Tolkien KZbinr!

[@martavdz4972]

Totally. Can´t watch anyone else.

[@annecarter5181]

@@martavdz4972100%. Most well presented; most well researched, most well spoken. Robert seems to get “inside” the story he’s telling; he’s not just reading a script. Bravo!

[@sajjadalhachami7574]

Nerd is best

[@nunofernandes4722]

Darth Gandalf: am i a joke to you?

[@Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral]

Very good channel, but there are several excellent Middle-earth channels. I am humbled and gladdened to be in the presence of such excellent channels.

[@majornugzzz5424]

Sir. You say thank you to all of us viewers, and rightfully so. But as a viewer, I'd like to say thank you instead. Your time, talent, and knowledge doesn't go unnoticed on my end. Thank you for your videos. Truly.

[@ThommyofThenn]

@@majornugzzz5424 this channel is one where I come away feeling like I learned something really important. And with LOTR and IDG's analysis on it, i think it's true!

[@schwammbo]

I always read Gwaihir's comments "A burden you have been, but not so now [...] the sun shines through you. [...] were I to let you fall, you would float upon the wind..." as a comment on Gandalf's frailty after having died and having laid for so long atop the mountain. The sun shines through him, meaning he was so thin that it literally shone through his skin. Great video, as always!

[@rollinronin8125]

I'm sure Rhadagast is like "Cool! I Can level up to Rhadagast The Grey."

[@johnupper5225]

Hmm... I doubt R. was ever that ambitious. :)

[@Wilhelm-100TheTechnoAdmiral]

​@@johnupper5225seriously. Radagast was so focused on the beauty of the natural world, I get you there fam, he sidelined himself. I like that Treebeard took up the mantle of defending nature. Treebeard the Brown.

[@nevarmaor]

Radagast was quite content being brown.

[@ThommyofThenn]

The way he describes straying out of thought and time, with maybe eons passing sounds like he experienced a death of the ego. Viewing reality from a perch of objectivity, I don't think he was meant to 'return' with a full grasp or memory of everything he experienced in that state but he was given such insight and power as needed for whatever part he had yet to fufill. This is a really interesting storyline that I never felt like i fully understood so as always, my thanks for posting it 😊

[@hunterG60k]

I had never thought of it like that before but you're right. Do you think Tolkien ever did psychedelics?

[@ThommyofThenn]

@hunterG60k i don't see him personally partaking but I can believe some of the mythos he drew upon was heavily influenced by such experiences. For example shamans or wise people using those amanita muscaria fungi to enter their visionary states. I like to think our perception of "magic" and prophecy might have been shaped in part by such experiences. Really interesting to consider!

[@MiljaHahto]

​@@hunterG60k I don't think he needed to. The severe trench fever ordeal probably took care of such experiences.

[@jackinthebox301]

I get what you're trying to say, but you have to remember that Tolkein was Catholic. God exists as an unchanging, perfect being who is entirely outside of time. Eru is similarly outside of time. So, dying as Gandalf did would mean he rejoined Eru in heaven outside of time. Technically speaking, since the Music of Ainur was already completed before Arda was made, Gandalf would have some idea of what is going to happen. Gandalf's ability to decide what the right thing to do is likely based off of those vague remembrances. Dying, rejoining Heaven and then being sent back would be one hell of a trip, though lol

[@ThommyofThenn]

@jackinthebox301 i see what you're "trying" to say , cheers

[@slizzysluzzer]

Gandalf the Grey was one of five, and Gandalf the White was one of one. The difference is in tone and in structure of mission. The rest of the Istari, already failed in their mission, were superseded by Gandalf's resurrection. There were no need for other wizards now, and thus, no need to subdivide the duties in turn. Gandalf was all that was required. But also, the color was clearly chosen to spite Saruman in specific, who had fallen and failed the greatest of all the Istari. A direct message from the Valar to say: "The writing is on the wall, and you have been found wanting. Your replacement has arrived."

[@EdMcF1]

I saw it as Eru going "OK, we lose one of the Istari to the Balrog, but I can just shuffle the pack and remove the current White and replace him with the Grey, so the good are still one Wizard down, but I haven't really interfered in my children's squabbles.'.

[@scotthammond3230]

There was no White wizard, Saruman abandoned it for his own many colors.

[@AKadir8]

I love these breakdowns and comparisons of the same character before and after certain states and events. More for the other LoTR characters please!

[@grandlotus1]

Your narration is beautiful - true to the beauty of Tolkien's work. You love and and we do too!

[@Cjkolbrek]

I wish you would do a reading of the books. I would tune in for ever episode

[@Aenyn]

Man, this was an exceptional analysis.

[@Lord_Malkior]

This was definitely one of my favorite LotR videos of yours. Cheers~

[@justinweber4977]

You know, on the opposite end of this video, it would be interesting to see the differences between Saruman as he was, and "Sharkey" as he became.

[@adrianofavre7655]

great video, hadn't really thought about this comparison before, very good and complete explanation as well!

[@GRB-tj6uj]

For those who are unfamiliar with Ancient Greek, it's interesting to note that the word "angel" is derived from the greek word for "messenger". So Tolkien, being the philologist he was, had that etymology in mind when he describes Gandalf as an angel. It's not just that angels are divine, powerful beings.

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

The link is even older than that! The Hebrew word מַלְאָךְ means "messenger" as well as (in the context of the Hebrew Bible) "angel." The Greek translation of the Bible borrowed from the Hebrew.

[@GameTimeWhy]

Hebrew isn't the original language for the Bible or at least not all of it. Ancient Greek was one of the original languages of the bible along with Aramaic and Hebrew. ​@@Unknown-jt1jo

[@Unknown-jt1jo]

@@GameTimeWhy My phrasing was a bit confusing. I was referring specifically to the Greek translation of the *Hebrew* Bible (aka the Old Testament). The Hebrew Bible was compiled at least 600-700 years before the New Testament. It was, of course, written almost entirely in Hebrew. It was there that the "messenger/angel" link was first established.

[@farid1406]

The Grey is a Sage with standing. The White is a Prophet with Authority.

[@communistcomrade6177]

most entertaining lore YT channel. love you IDG !

[@stuart.whiting]

Tolkien was a genius, and your videos are absolutely worthy of him

[@glamourweaver]

It’s interesting that hat Gandalf is an embodied Maiar, so you’d think his “death” would just disembody him - at most fling his Maiar self back to Valinor like an elf, or leave it present to rebuild his power until he can create a new body (ala what happened the past times Sauron’s physical body was killed). Instead he truly died in the fashion of a mortal and passed out of Ea entirely to be sent back not by the Valar but by Iluvitar.

[@stickiedmin6508]

Makes me wonder: When Gandalf The White arrived back on the mountain top, was Gandalf The Grey's body still lying there, next to him? Would that explain how he managed to reacquire Glamdring and Narya, despite coming back completely in the nudd, by essentially looting his own corpse?

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

I think Gandalf the White has more of his Istari nature showing under the human body he's wearing. Gandalf the Grey was more of the physical and more attached to Middle Earth; Gandalf the White was a more spiritual being, as well as being more powerful.

[@kpp8349]

Gandalf the grey could sometimes hear the song faintly as if carried on a wind. Gandalf the white had a Walkman with a old tape that was played 10 thousand times

[@Philtoid]

We all really appreciate your in depth knowledge an easy to understand explainations of the best film trilogy of all time. Cheers mate youre a legend

[@Wolfeson28]

1:40 Listening to that description of Gandalf's experiences as he was sent back, it really does sound like he's being brought more in tune with the world (as explained later), given a greater temporary connection to the Music of the Ainur. A lot of that line sounds, for lack of a better term, like he's getting a massive download of information about everything significant going on in Middle Earth at that moment as well as some understanding of how events will unfold. That certainly would explain his description of each day seeming as long as a life-age, since he's experiencing the days' events across the world, and why he forgets a bit of his Gandalf identity until he's reminded.

[@-Keith-]

This is what I was thinking as well - that after the extremely long amount of time he had spent in middle earth as Gandalf the Grey, what little memories or feelings he had been able to keep of the music of the Ainur had become lost to time and faded memory even though he had successfully remained steadfast in his purpose. Dying and returning to middle earth had allowed him to restrengthen his connection to the music and thus regain much more potent powers of foresight.

[@Djorgal]

There's an element you didn't mention that I think is also important. That's the difference in the function he serves, his role. As the grey wanderer, he inspired little people to go onto adventurers and rise up to the challenges. As the white wizard, he advises and inspires great men and kings into nobility and action.

[@astrotter]

I like to imagine that after his death he strayed a little while in the Halls of Ilúvatar, and was reacquainted with those measures of the Music of the Ainur that pertained to his task. Not that all that happened afterwards was preordained and known to him, but that he had a new sense of the lay of the land, so to speak, and could see how best to direct all the agents involved.

[@leslietarkin]

Wow. I'm reading The Two Towers right now. Your video is now helping me understand Gandalf the White better. I didn't even grasp that he's now the head of the Order and more powerful than Saurman. Just wow. I love your videos.

[@Rick_King]

In Dungeons and Dragons terms, he advanced a level. Probably from Level 29 to Level 30, which is the maximum, and therefore he had to leave Middle Earth. Wonderful video, as always!

[@guillermodiego819]

The layers and nuances in Tolkien's work truly are neverending. Worth of a lifetime of study and appreciation

[@Twiska]

The title got this line stuck in my head. "Then Gandalf the Grey and Gandalf the White And Monty Python and the Holy Grail's black knight"

[@thing_under_the_stairs]

Same. I'm not sure whether or not I should be ashamed of this.

[@Kedai610]

Yep. Neil has implanted that deep in my psyche

[@gargoyles9999]

And Benito Mussolini and the Blue Meany

[@spatialwarp]

@@gargoyles9999 Cowboy Curtis and Jambi the Genie

[@douglaswolfen7820]

​@@spatialwarp RoboCop, The Terminator, Captain Kirk, Darth Vader…

[@Restilia_ch]

On the subject of being "in tune with the song," I wonder if he recalled part of the Song of the Ainur that, as a Maia who descended to Aman, he would have taken part in and seen flashes of Eru's vision for the world. His straying out of thought and time might be more literal, as time didn't exist when the Song occurred.

[@pastorjerrykliner3162]

The theological/philosophical category here is "Teleology"--how things will ultimately be. It's not that Gandalf is "leveled up," but rather how he ultimately will be, like a butterfly is to the caterpillar. "Telos" (in Greek) is contrasted with "Scatos"..."Scatos" is the end, decomposition of things. The Christian theology of this revolves around the Resurrection...the Resurrection of the Body. The Resurrection of the body is, in Christian theology, the, final, ultimate reality of the human, as opposed to the Scatological--the rotting corpse in the grave.

[@ok-lq6tv]

I think its more about the "Transfiguration" of Gandalf rather than just the resurrection/teleological form (as I think he would have *always* been Gandalf the white)

[@fauxparr]

Gandalf's proactiveness even in the face of ridicule and disregard has always been quite inspiring

[@PelinalWhitestrake.]

My favorite channel on KZbin. Thanks, Robert.

[@MarushiaDark316]

Would be interested to see a follow-up video talking about Saruman's claim to being "Saruman of Many Colors."

[@elMentity]

This feels like an especially stellar synopsis on your part Robert. Inspiring! Thank you for this!

[@gavelston3943]

Last time I was this early, Eru was writing the music of the universe

[@LibertarianLeninistRants]

[@dominicmillns5856]

Nice try, Morgoth. You can’t trick us like that again!

[@azzurri95-]

Love this channel!

[@claycon]

Great video! Nothing new - but none the less wonderful. This is my favorite character arc in the story!

[@doggerel6847]

So well written!

[@blackaddersbeard]

Wow! Great video!

[@lili46038]

Remarkable as always

[@blackfox4138]

I always envisioned the mind of the istari being similar to their bodies. When Olorin was tasked with coming down to Middle-Earth, he didn't want to be at the forefront of the conflict. So he chose the mind and body of someone who was more down to earth and more relaxed. This was Gandalf. When he died and was tasked to return, he knew he couldn't afford to second guess himself like he once did, and so he took the mind of a much wiser leader of the istari. This was Saruman. So in a way, The Grey and The White are two different people who both share the same spirit of Olorin.

[@stickiedmin6508]

Well put.

[@fawesum]

They didn't really choose their appearance when they first arrived. They were sent as old men, burdened by the same things that burdened men, and "forgetting" their past.

[@Charolette21]

@@fawesum Maybe they didn't have a choice to be giant old men (I remember them being tall, even by human standards), but their presentation after that was their choice.

[@RekijanGaming]

Wacthed LotR so many times, still learn something new on here everytime. Thanks for all these videos, I thoroughly enjoy them.

[@taihartley5289]

Thanks for this Robert!! Would love to know more about the lore behind all the Wizard/Color dynamics as well. Blue, Brown - Many Colors etc. Keep up the good work!

[@kinesta]

Great video!

[@errantwinds-up8uu]

Great video as always, and I just enjoy the understated humour. "He can see things in the future rather than just having better eyesight." 🤣

[@timgittar]

Insightful and entertaining, as usual! Wonderful.

[@michaelhillhouse3751]

This was a great one Robert.

[@hernancortez5392]

One of your best videos, about one of the greatest characters in all fiction. well done Sir

[@MarkoBotsaris]

It has seemed to me obvious from my first read back in the ‘70 as a child that the staffs are as much symbols of office as magic wands. With apologies to the ridiculous Rings of Power series, they must have been given to them by those that sent them, not found via an extensive Easter egg hunt. So when Gandalf’s staff is shattered on the Bridge of Khazad Dum - and this is NOT something I realized on the first read - it is not just an indication of the power of the Balrog, but a message that his first office, and hence his current incarnation is over. Still, while we know Gandalf 2.0 had another staff when he returned, and used it a lot more, we curiously never get a detailed description of either. In the Jackson version I liked that his new staff was less rustic and more “I’m the leader of my order” style. But probably the biggest mistake in the films (is my mind) was the Lord of the Nazgûl having the power to shatter staff 2.0. That was groan-worthy.

[@roderickfemm8799]

It just occurred to me to wonder what happened to Glamdring, Gandalf's sword, when he died and was returned naked? Gwaihir took him to Lorien where he was clothed, but the elves there would not have had his sword, which presumable was somewhere around him on the mountain top where he killed the Balrog with it. So did he somehow get it back, or was he using a different sword for the final events of the trilogy?

[@stickiedmin6508]

I was wondering pretty much the same thing about the ring, Narya. When he came back, was it already on his finger? Did he have to find and retrieve it?

[@IreneWY]

Probably lying around where he had died and where he was sent back then

[@TigruArdavi]

I have always interpreted his return as such, his body never went away, and sent back was not another body. What left was his soul, his spirit, however you call it. Yes, Gandalf dies, but his body remained on the mountain top, and then his soul was sent back to be rekindeled in the same body that lay still there in the snow, having become thin and frail and the hair turned white. And of course all the gear still there as before.

[@TotalDESSSS]

Such a beautiful video.

[@Salmon3651]

Great observations

[@butwhytho6522]

Really enjoying your art, your research, your channel, thankyou

[@TheCorpsehatch]

Wonderful explainer video. Best LOTR channel on KZbin.

[@Barlofontain]

7:44, The day Karl Urban was unavailable so they used a stand-n for Eomer, but forgot to digitally swap the face before the final cut... 😂

[@apstrike]

It's curious that the order of the Istari has a hierarchy of leadership, but its members do not appear to have defined duties or portfolios beyond the fact that they are like the Valar whom they follow. They're more like a faculty committee, which has a nominal chairperson, but each does their own thing with a minimum of collaboration or central direction.

[@skzion2]

Very interesting. Thanks.

[@Endlessvoidsutidos]

amazing vid thanks for making :D)

[@xina968]

Love Robert's videos❤❤😊

[@larryroberts3598]

Thank you for another great lore filled video!

[@skzion2]

Thanks!

[@BringNightmares]

I still love the Gray/Grey version more, such a lad

[@TheBRad704]

Just this week I've gotten to the point in the Two Towers where he comes back and meets Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas in Fangorn Forest. This video was perfect timing!

[@willwon8962]

Well-done explanation! Absolutely Well-done. You sound just like Bilbo Baggins. :)

[@ukmediawarrior]

The movie has a scene where the Lord of the Nazgul breaks Gandalf's staff at the siege of Minas Tirith, misleading I think for those who never read the book where that never happened. It makes Gandalf look weaker. Ultimately, if you want to know how much Gandalf the White was holding back consider this. He is a Maiar, sent to Middle Earth to combat Sauron and help the free peoples ... but Sauron is also a Maiar. So could Gandalf the White fight and beat Sauron?

[@manjackson2772]

Before Sauron forged the ring, maybe. Afterwards, without it, probably. If Sauron had it, no.

[@sertaki]

As far as I remember, all the Istari were given the bodies of old men to limit their power to that of advisors, so that they didn't simply take the war to Sauron and turned it into an apocalyptic conflict of gods. It was supposed to be solved by mortals and elves primarily. So it is rather unlikely that even with his full powers unleashed, the the form of Gandalf would allow his Maiar spirit to match Sauron's powers - who was there in full might (though most of it was infused into the ring and he was without a full physical body at the time because of that).

[@istari0]

That was a terrible scene. Beyond that though, after he was sent back as Gandalf the White, he openly admits that the one being in Middle-Earth more dangerous than he is was Sauron. But Tolkien did write in one of his letters that if Gandalf had learned to wield the One Ring, he likely could have defeated Sauron but that would have just resulted in Gandalf eventually becoming the new Dark Lord.

[@floridaprepper751]

This is a very good video, thank you sir.

[@alexgedrose]

Love it!

[@Jeudaos]

Thank you. The ways of magic are so sutle in the world of LotR. It's actually quite fascinating the nuances between the power levels of the wizard, or, Myar? sorry my LotR knowledge is limited. which is why I like this channel

[@General12th]

Hi Robert! I like to think that as Gandalf approached Valinor, he gradually shed his human form, and his angelic nature began to shine through more and more. The elf lords had seen glimpses of it, so they weren't as surprised, but Olorin became downright _alien_ to Bilbo and Frodo. What a sad surprise!

[@scottjackson1420]

Gandalf the Grey had a sense of humor.

[@parkersutherland8444]

Something I enjoy particularly about the shift between Gandalf the grey and the white is that it feels to me that that transition brings him closer to Tom Bombadil. I think Gandalf's line about hearing the springing and the dying of the lands feels very much to me something that would do well to describe Bombadil and his abilities. Not to mention the time Gandalf spends with Bombadil at the end of the story, feels very much like two peers discussing ways of the world instead of a student seeking wisdom.

[@TigruArdavi]

I have always interpreted his return as such, his body never went away, and sent back was not another body. What left was his soul, his spirit, however you call it. Yes, Gandalf dies, but his body remained on the mountain top, and then his soul was sent back to be rekindeled in the same body that lay still there in the snow, having become thin and frail and the hair turned white. And of course all the gear still there as before.

[@ThommyofThenn]

He seemed way more chill and sublime but it seemed clear to me he had gained new insight and was attuned with a higher level of awareness

[@Randall1001]

So... I like this. This raises the possiblity--however unlikely it would ever come to this--that should the ringbearer's task fail, and should Sauron therefore regain the ring and begin to sweep over Middle Earth... that possibly Gandalf was given the okay, in that event, to make use of all the immense power he'd been given. In short, there's no way Sauron is winning this. Perhaps he was told to limit himself, and let the denizens of Middle Earth win this battle themselves IF they can. To do whatever he can to assist still, but to otherwise hold back. As you say, to meet power only with the same level of power if need be. BUT... if the people of Middle Earth fail, if Sauron is about to triumph, you (Gandalf) are allowed then to meet his power with your power, and defeat him. (Cue all the arguments as to whether Gandalf the White WAS that powerful, but who can say?) That this is never said or implied directly is appropriate. We'd wonder why bother with the entire war if Gandalf could just defeat Sauron? And so would the people of Middle Earth. But of course the idea is that they defeat Sauron themselves. A pair of hobbits destroying Sauron's ring--and thus Sauron--is far more inspirational than an angel coming down and doing it for us.

[@stickiedmin6508]

I wonder, if it came to that, and Gandalf _was_ forced to confront Sauron himself, whether it might go similarly to the fight with the balrog? "This foe is beyond any of you - Fly you fools!" Then the two maiar proceed to tear each other to pieces, ultimately destroy each other and leave Middle Earth as a result?

[@istari0]

In his exchange with Gimli after he reunites with the 3 hunters after his return, Gandalf says that the only being in Middle-Earth more dangerous than Gandalf is Sauron, so I don't think that was the backup plan. Gandalf the White, if it came down to it, could defeat any other being in Middle-Earth except Sauron.

[@robinsandquist]

Isn't there also a great danger with unleashing that power? The wars of the first age sunk a whole continent through the fighting of the dragons, balrogs and other beings. So I could really see that be the idea of why the humans had to manage this conflict on their own (with some divine intervention through Gandalf), to afterwards be able to live in the world they won - and thus letting Eru's world live on uninterrupted by Melkor's blight.

[@IreneWY]

My understanding is that gandalf was sent back with his full Maia powers. No longer limited like before. Maybe even with all the memories of Valinor. He had proven himself true to the mission, so he was trusted not to abuse his powers.

[@xerotigercat]

Excellent Alice ref @3:32

[@theamazingbatboy]

I feel like by acting within the 'rules' of the mortal realm, as an underpowered wizard with an intimate understanding of mortal life, Gandalf sort of wrote _himself_ into the annals of the Middle-Earth story as observed by Eru Illuvatar. He made connections and friendships, sacrificed himself nobly, inspired his comrades and was therefore granted the opportunity to tip the scales. Still not sure he 'could' have gone against Sauron directly or if such an encounter wouldn't have done more harm than good. When looking at the devastation wrought by the Titanic conflicts of the War of the Lamps / for sake of the Elves / Wrath, it's clear why the Valar and Eru withdrew from the conflicts of the mortal world as much as possible-simply in an effort to leave things better than they found them.

[@bosmanka]

Man o man, your stories are always so great to listen to! And also much to the point. Thank you!

[@saladinbob]

Essentially nothing. Olórin - Gandalf's Quenya name - was simply healed by Ilúvatar and some of the restrictions on his innate power were lifted by Manwe, bringing him in-line with Saruman (the title _The White_ designating the leader of the Istari or Wizards).

[@Iceflkn]

Gandalf’s inability to defeat the Witch King serves an important narrative purpose. If he could easily overpower the Witch King, the audience would constantly anticipate Gandalf’s arrival as a guaranteed solution to any crisis, which would undercut the tension and suspense of the story. Keeping him limited in this way helps maintain the stakes and keeps readers guessing. I also thought it was meaningful that Gandalf returned naked-it seems to emphasize that he was reborn rather than reincarnated. When he mentioned his memories resetting, it made me wonder if he might have lost some of his original memories to make space for the ones he’d have developed had he always been appointed as the White Wizard. In a way, these new memories could be forming as if he had lived as Gandalf the White from the beginning, allowing him to gain fresh insights, perspectives and access to secret levels of knowledge his new rank would have provided him. He would certainly come to ideas and conclusions that Saruman might never have considered. The fact that he still struggles to recall certain things implies the transformation isn’t entirely complete, hinting at a fascinating blend of who he was and who he’s becoming. Or maybe Gandalf’s cloak was originally white (like all the other wizards), but after centuries of battles, epic journeys, and all those dragon-smoke-filled rooms, it turned so worn and gray that even Elven magic couldn’t get it clean again. And let’s be real-the smell? Let’s just say a new cloak was definitely in order! So naturally, he had to go upgrade his wardrobe! 😜

[@aceskip8620]

Good summary

[@JonesWazza]

Mate- can you please do a video investigating who taught Gandalf to sword fight!?!? He seems ok at it. I’d love to know where you think he learned. Did he have a teacher? Did he pick it up as he went along? Had he used a sword at other times over the years or did he just take a fancy to Glamdring In particular?

[@MrNicoJac]

I think it's more that Orcs etc forget how to fight when confronted with him. Remember that his sword shines a brilliant blue when enemies are close, and the light hurts their eyes. Also, the sheer presence of a Maia would be overpowering to any normal mortal beings. Much like brave men would shrink in terror from the Nazgul. I would not be surprised if Gandalf radiated the same kind of intimidating power to his enemies.

[@JonesWazza]

@@MrNicoJacprobs part of it, but he still seems to know what he’s doing with a sword too, and you don’t pick that up without practice and teaching. .. usually. He runs the Great Goblin through in one epic hit- and that was a stealth attack- I feel like he is at least a competent swordsman and I want a mega detailed video about it from Robert haha

[@marcusreading3783]

I mean...the guy is as ild as creation. I imagine that he picked it up at some point just because. It wouldn't surprise me if the Istari kept any martial skills they had when they went from Maiar to semi-mortal. They might be old men in form and meant to act as guides, but the world is dangerous and being able to fight to defend oneself seems like a skill they would need.

[@JonesWazza]

@@marcusreading3783 I agree on the ‘picking it up somewhere across 1000s of years’ part- and I want to see speculation on what that looked like! Not sure why a Maiar would need martial arts skills tho? Unless picked up in a previous physical form…

[@marcusreading3783]

@JonesWazza there was the whole war with Morgoth thing and they likely knew going in that there would be SOME conflicts they'd need to deal with. Plus, eternity is a long time, so something to pass the time makes sense.

[@wompastompa3692]

I've heard that the Ishtari were restricted to mortal forms to better understand the plight of men, so my headcanon is that when Gandalf was sent back he was allowed unrestricted access to his full maiar might.

[@MrAlice613]

I think it's interesting that Gandalf's power up explicitly separates him from the world. "many things that are close at hand I cannot see." As Gandalf the Grey, he was very human, experiencing all the joys and pleasures of being mortal: dancing, smoking, making fireworks, all those things. But as Gandalf the White, he is separated from those things. Those things are behind him now. We know that Gandalf was Nienna's greatest pupil, having been taught grief by her, and as Gandalf the Grey he mirrored her color scheme. But as Gandalf the White, he seems more akin to Manwe, who is very lofty. I wonder if Gandalf felt nostalgia for his days as the Gandalf the Grey? Burdened by the weight of responsibility, hearing the "groan of overburdened stone", did he feel regret for having lost when he could enjoy the simple pleasures of dancing and pipeweed? I think that, in becoming Gandalf the White, he saw the culmination of his lessons from Nienna. The world of Middle Earth was moving on from the days of magic and wonder, into the Age of Man. It was inevitable, but that doesn't lessen the grief. And now Gandalf has moved on from his Grey days into his White days, only for a short time and soon to return to Valar. He's become greater, but he's lost what he once was. I think that, in that transformation, Gandalf learned his final lesson of pity for the world as it was changing.

[@RickardLejonhjarta]

I caught that Alice in Wonderland reference, very fitting

[@glowstickofdestiny1290]

I wonder how much of that final point about Gandalf's certainty to take action was informed by Tolkien's own experiences with warfare, and the value of being "aggressive ENOUGH, quickly ENOUGH"

[@martavdz4972]

Probably not much, his experience was about lying in trenches a lot and being shot at. Not much fast individual aggressivity needed. I´d say it had more to do with him reading ancient warrior myths. IMHO he would have found them empowering after the forced passivity in WW1, essentially being cannon fodder.

[@daniell1483]

Kind of wonder what Gandalf could have done in terms of magic if he wasn't supposed to "hold back" all the time, especially as Gandalf the White.

[@patrickcole2356]

What we’re seeing in Gandalf the White is a Maiar spirit who is self-aware, and in direct control of all his capacities as an eternal spirit. As one the istari, prior, he had been vaguely aware of his background in valinor, but it was likened to a dream. He knew his purpose, but was intentionally nerfed - mentally, spiritually, and physically, with a goal (as most of us know) of encouraging and kindling hope, rather than leading at the front of battles. As Gandalf the White - while he uses them *very selectively* - he now simply has access to all his memories, capabilities, and prowess as one of the Ainur. That includes knowledge of the entire timeline of Arda (having participated himself in the Music of Illuvatar), and his various spiritual abilities. Telepathy? Check. The projection of mental energy into physical energy? Check (see his confrontation on the Pelennor Fields with the Nazgûl). He is, at that point, the second most powerful being in middle earth, behind only Sauron.

[@christalbot210]

I feel this increase in wisdom and "knowing what to do" is one of the reasons he felt he could finally talk to Tom Bombadil (plus, of course, he finally has the time to do so 🙂). Gandalf The White, can more understand where Tom Bombadil is coming from (maybe not everything, but certainly much more).

[@fawesum]

I always thought of "the song and the weeping" as refering to the Ainur's songs that formed the world and the timeline, and that he now saw more of the song than before.

[@christianellegaard7120]

Gandalf is one of my favourite characters. But I liked him better when all I knew about him was what I read in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. He seemed a wise and highly educated human. He was part of an order (perhaps one of many) of wizards with Saruman as its head. I always felt that learning that he is an immortal being, diminished him. His order consisted of just five such beings, only three of which are ever mentioned in the main story. Rather than being part of a wider class of magicians.