What is the difference between the two red Supreme Daleks?

Two of the most prominent Supreme Daleks of the New Series of Doctor Who are the red Supreme Daleks who feature in Series 4 and Series 9, respectively. Whilst these Daleks initially appear identical, there are in fact several subtle differences between the two...
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[@yehiahuzayyin7972]

There's another aspect of the Series 9 two-parter that I think is often overlooked; Davros' character arc. In the classic series, Davros was hellbent on controlling and ruling the Daleks. By Journey's End, he's not in control, but still tries to use his arrangement to keep some leverage with them. By The Magician's Apprentice, he's fully accepted that he cannot control them, and is happy to be their father and simply be a part of their affairs.

[@wastelandgames9409]

Thats kinda sweet in a fucked up way

[@ObviouslyKieran]

@@wastelandgames9409 Imagine if Vader had gone that way instead of trying to corrupt Luke.

[@timecontroller8800]

This i feel is davroses true place in the dalek empire while I really like him I feel he shouldn’t control the daleks as they are a single minded race that require a mind that can be fully committed to conquest and leader ship which davros isnt

[@codaboi138]

It's almost nice hearing a Dalek have concern for Davros. Putting aside the Daleks purpose and the horrible intentions behind their creation, it is nice to think the Daleks can appreciate what Davros means for them as a race. Davros tried to create something he deemed better, from the remains of Kaleds, a creature to ultimately survive, and all he cares about is that they thrive. I think, deep down, Davros made the Daleks out of grief for the loss of his people, making them in a way that he thought would ultimately make them live on forever in a universe full of competition. The notion that perhaps the Daleks appreciate and respect that is sweet in the most bizarre way.

[@x-fun3149]

And then it all falls apart when you realise that Davros was the one who gave the Thals the chemical formula to destroy the Kaled dome

[@darkhumour741]

@@x-fun3149 Well to be fair, at that point the war had irreversibly affected the Kaled gene pool, so there was no use trying to preserve their current form. The Daleks were an inevitability…Davros merely sped up the process (that and also hijacking it with the psychological changes he introduced to the mutants)

[@Khorne-888]

You know when I first saw the supreme Dalek of the Dalek city I didn’t notice there personality difference nor the difference between how Davros viewed the Daleks of the Medusa cascade incident and those of the menagerie of Daleks in the Dalek city. So this has honestly been extremely insightful

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

You weren’t paying attention.

[@redjirachi1]

I like to think the Crucible Supreme's different opinion on Davros is because he made from Davros' DNA; that extra hubris comes from his genetic donor. We've seen how poorly the Master teaming up with themselves goes, and I can't imagine Davros would be much different

[@unimpressedlink2507]

Though both of these Daleks are portrayed by the same prop, it had gone through some unique changes over the course of seven years. Primarily, as you mentioned, is the shade of red, which is a tad brighter. However, this is only made more noticeable by the fact that it shares a common issue amongst Dalek props in both the Moffat and Chibnall eras, that being a complete lack of weathering. The prop appears much more “plasticy” due to this, which I feel diminishes it’s imposing factor.

[@TheDarkWhovian]

Was on about this with Dalek Bumps regarding the props in Series 7. It's a bloody shame they forgot to add the weathering :(

[@dalekbumps]

I think the decision to not include weathering was a deliberate one, the fact that Daleks in the RTD-era were weathered was to illustrate the fact that they were old - the Metaltron, the Emperor's Daleks, the Cult of Skaro - they had all been hiding out for years gathering dust, and the weathering reflected that. You could even make the case that Davros' Daleks had been hiding out for a while before enacting their Reality Bomb plan, giving the Supreme Dalek time to gather some grime on his armour. But following Victory of the Daleks (except for the Asylum scenes in AotD) all the Daleks we see are pristine, they're not scavengers or scattered survivors anymore they're a full-fledged Dalek Empire, so there's no real reason why they would have weathering at all

[@plantainsame2049]

Why the hell would it have any weathering though it's a supreme when the hell is it going to be in combat normally

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

@@dalekbumpsif they weren’t going to do weathering then they should’ve added the metallic finish they used on Dalek asylum red drones.

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

@@plantainsame2049most Dalek classes outside of scientists will often see combat, but in the case of stolen Earth, this supreme’s post was on the crucible.

[@theentity5201]

There was one other difference between the two red supreme daleks, the eyestalk length was just a smidge longer on the Skaro city version, it had a silver strip in between the eye discs and eyeball unlike the Crucible one which has a narrower gap in between the discs and eyeball thus a shorter eyestalk.

[@deathstrider111]

I don't know if it's just me but I've always imagined the red supreme dalek during the time war was simply a commander of a single fleet with each fleet having its own separately coloured dalek. Much like the colour schemes of the dalek paradigm.

[@10thdoctor15]

Certainly in command of one fleet, with each ship having a leader, and the Emperor being in charge of the whole Empire.

[@gdeproductions1225]

"Neon-Pink dalek on the bridge"

[@robotx9285]

It just makes more sense to me that there would be a dozen too hundreds of Supreme given how vast the Dalek Empire cam get.

[@trainsandtugs]

I really wish the dalek city wasn't destroyed. I really loved seeing the classic daleks along with modern daleks. There is something about the classic designs that i love more then post time war daleks. Classic daleks give off a minimalist design. Showing that the daleks only care about function. Time war daleks feel over designed. With the panel lines and rivets. They feel like they would be more for a conflict like the time war. But not some grand scheme to steal the earth.

[@fastertrackcreative]

I suspect this won't be the last time we see it. The Daleks have a remarkable ability to survive and rebuild.

[@drakenman4256]

I think we need to have a supreme dalek play a more inclusive role in upcoming Dr Who episodes. I also noticed that in The Magicians Apprentice clip, there is a Time War era dalek with blue dome lights.

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

Hopefully, RTD will bring back the red Supreme Dalek because it is been since 2016 since it has been on screen 💻

[@stephenhounsell7257]

@@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2 I hope we will see this Dalek Supreme in 2024 soon.

[@alexthemtaandr211weatherfa2]

@@stephenhounsell7257 the Supreme Dalek should appear in series 14

[@badwolf66]

There is now a 3rd Red Supreme in Liberation of The Daleks Comic, who knows what will happen to that!

[@ReuHR]

the supreme is my favorite Dalek in the new series and I would be so happy if he returned he is an iconic Dalek now, he always has been my favorite and always.

[@wardjunior1450]

It’s been my favourite Dalek since we first saw him.

[@britanimations2002]

Would you be able to do a video about some of the cameos of the Daleks outside of the show? The ones that I think would be the most interesting are Looney Toons: Back In Action, Ted 2 which features a Dalek from that Looney Toons film, and maybe even Lego Dimensions and the Lego Batman Movie

[@plantainsame2049]

We all know that's what's really happened to the paradigm. They got sucked into another dimension through the events of dimensions And they fell through time to be destroyed by batman Time travel must be involved because the event place before dimensions for him

[@IllusivePrime]

I think both Supremes have the same name insignia under thier eyestalks. So if the show runners deny that the two are different they could run with the idea that they both operate a different time-line. Unless the name ingina means 'Supreme'.

[@plantainsame2049]

It's probably rank considering that they don't have names normally And a lot of them share The

[@SuperEpicNiceGuy]

Weren't a lot of the Daleks in 'The Magician's Apprentice' and 'The Witch's Familiar' fan made props (including the Supreme)? It explains the suttle visual changes to the Supreme and the odd difference in Dalek, for example the slight difference in the Black 'Dalek Sec' Dalek and that one Bronze Dalek that has blue lights instead of white lights.

[@dalekbumps]

There were a lot of fan-made Dalek props used for this story, but as far as I'm aware the Supreme prop is the same one from Series 4

[@randomericthings7506]

I was so happy when I saw the red Supreme Dalek in “The Magician’s Apprentice”. Red is my favorite color and “The Stolen Earth” and “Journey’s End” is my favorite Supreme Dalek design followed by the White Supreme Dalek of the New Paradigm. In some religions wearing red is considered sinful as red represents vanity. So it fits the Supreme Dalek well. White does also as white is often considered a pure color. There’s also white supremacists who consider all non-white humans to be inferior, similar to how Daleks see all other life forms as inferior.

[@TheSmart-CasualGamer]

Is possible that it's the same Dalek? They're on Skaro, taking care of Davros, but then after Davros's plan gets f***ed up, he sods off with an Emergency Temporal Shift, and meets up with Davros again. He's NOT happy with him, but reluctantly sticks around just in case the Reality Bomb plan works out.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

Davros and the Daleks from "Journey's End" are from the Time War, rescued by Dalek Caan; "Witches Apprentice" takes place afterwards. Davros also says he created all of these Daleks from scratch, using his own DNA, precisely because it was just him and Caan. .

[@10thdoctor15]

I love the Series 4 Supreme, and would love for another superior cased Supreme to show up again.

[@fastertrackcreative]

I get the impression the Supreme Dalek's design is essentially the equivalent to a commander's uniform in a (human) army hence multiple Daleks can have the same design. Only it's not just a uniform.

[@MsetFox]

I love this channel, "Dalek Bumps"

[@kingzaynsmyname3634]

Wow I'm quite early, this is from 17 hours ago, nice. Oh, and can I just say I actually started binge watching your videos as I love the way you throughly explain your theories etc! Honestly, brilliant content!

[@MrHighlifewest]

I want to see other colours of this model make a appearance.

[@10thdoctor15]

The colour difference also includes the brass - the one in Series 9 is less shiny. It is also cleaner, the one in Series 4 implied to have been around for a while and rarely, if ever, going into battle.

[@borusa32]

The brackets are interesting but they needed a battery operated torch for an eye stalk to be a real supreme.

[@appledrawss1353]

and here i thought one was just a clone of the other

[@Futures_End]

Now we've got a Red Dalek Supreme leading the supposed Invasion of Earth 1966 in the DWM Liberation of the Daleks currently facing off the Fourteenth Doctor. He's back!

[@SirSX3]

Ever since Genesis of the Daleks, there have been two factions of Dalek. One is pro-Davros/pro-Evolution, the other wants to maintain racial purity (anti-Davros). The Classic Series has the Dalek Civil War played out, and in the New Series we see this struggle as well. It's not clear about the details of the Time War, but it seems like the top Dalek is the Emperor, which has no problems with turning humans into Daleks, so I'm guessing he's pro-Evolution. And he appointed the Cult of Skaro to "imagine new ways to survive", so he's definitely pro-adaptation. The leader of the Cult of Skaro Dalek Sec then end up in Manhattan and went a bit too far by creating new race to Dalek-Humans, leading to the rest of the Cult of Skaro to turn against him. Restarting the Dalek Civil War, as the purity faction. The only remaining Dalek in the world Dalek Caan then use Emergency Temporal Shift to break the Time Lock and go into the Time War and pull out Davros and the Time War Daleks. Because Caan and the Red Supreme Dalek are racial purity faction, so now they are the ones that hold power in the New Dalek Empire. Even though during the Time War, it was the pro-adaptation faction in charge. Then later on in Victory of the Daleks, the New Dalek Paradigm takes power and immediately exterminated the impure Daleks, which means they are about racial purity. However, at some point, the pro-Evolution Daleks take back control. We see the fundamentalist New Dalek Paradigm sidelined in favour of the Bronze Daleks from the Time War which are pro-reform. The White Supreme Dalek is usurped by the Dalek Prime Minister and the Dalek Parliament. (Which is destroyed at Trenzalore) It is at this point that we see the resurrected Dalek Empire in the rebuilt Skaro City. This time, the faction that holds the power is the pro-reform group which is more accepting/friendly to Davros. With their destruction by the sewer Daleks, maybe another power shift happens because in Revolution of the Daleks, there is the Dalek Death Squad to ensure Dalek racial purity, so it seems like they're back in control.

[@randomericthings7506]

I just figured the difference in shade of red was due to the different lighting of both individuals.

[@calvinfranklyn5499]

I wish there was only one red Supreme. It'd feel more important that way.

[@baggin.]

Going to miss the time war daleks when the new series stats hope the new daleks look nice

[@shyguy54321]

i like the first supreme dalek more honestly. i think i like the daleks taking joy in "playing with their food" and think its more interesting. instead of being an army of soldiers, but rather an army of psychopaths who dont just kill mindlessly, looking down on other life forms suffering as entertainment.

[@59rlmccormack]

Let ‘em return.

[@doctorloongman5899]

One is red and the other is burgundy

[@deathstrider111]

I may be wrong but we do not know inwhich order these episodes happen for davros. So I wonder if the witches familiar is before stolen earth and yhe reason the red suprme hates davros is for his blaming davros for them loosing skaro again.

[@cameronmonaghan6883]

would love to see what the role of the Black Dalek in the Witch's Familiar. Maybe a 'fleet commander' like the gold one from Day of the Daleks, a member of the Supreme Council but not part of the inner circle.

[@colinmoore7460]

Is it just me , or did one of those a supreme Daleks have two dome lights and the other have three?

[@lukew636]

They both have 3

[@silverdaleks1]

I always thought the 4 more bulky shoulder panels were OTT. I prefer more subtle differences like the Planet of the dalek supreme with different done lights and a different shaped eye stalk tip. I even made a costume figure of a RTD era dalek with the planet of the daleks supreme colour scheme and with a gold eye stalk tip

[@theylivewesleep.5139]

Nah, the neck crown is awesome.

[@bobdallas4860]

I personally prefer the White Supreme Dalek from Smith's era.

[@redblade8160]

Those clamps underneath the Dalek's head look silly and does not enhance the look of the Dalek.

[@alexander9703]

So what's the difference between the black Dalek Supreme, and the red Dalek Supreme. Is it era, or is one higher than the other?

[@Anon26535]

Do they exterminate three times faster than other Daleks?

[@antpearson9676]

So nerdy love it Ant p uk teacher retired

[@jonathancampbell5231]

1:25 I don't know why that would make any of them "not pure Daleks" to be created from Davros; if anything, that should make them the MOST pure Daleks of all.

[@AKOfficial96]

They talk about this in the Dalek Paradigm episode, their progenitor device doesn’t recognise the Davros-clone Dalek as pure ones because the DNA differs from the original ones.

[@jonathancampbell5231]

​@@AKOfficial96 Yes, but how and why?

[@dalekbumps]

​@@jonathancampbell5231Davros' DNA is severely mutated, to the point where he doesn't even register as a Kaled anymore. Destiny of the Daleks was the first to show this, in that episode the Movellans scan Davros and their computer describes him as 'humanoid mutant', it can't even decipher his species. So it's safe to say that any Daleks grown from his crusty old genes would not be considered pure

[@jonathancampbell5231]

@@dalekbumps Well, the Movellans might not have been able to register his species because Davros and the Daleks wiped that whole species out first. But fair enough. Not sure I would give Moffat quite that much credit though, and it does contradict Davros describing his Daleks as "pure Kaled". Plus, did they ever say where they got the Progenitor Device in the first place? If these are "Journey's End" Daleks, then shouldn't it belong to them in the first place?

[@dalekbumps]

@@jonathancampbell5231 fair point on both counts, the 'Davros' audio explains it a bit more - the Kaleds originally planned to kill Davros because of his injuries, arguing he was no longer a pure Kaled, and I imagine the many deaths and resurrections he's had over the years messed up his biology somewhat. And no, the origins of the Progenitor are never explained. It's a bit silly really, if it was out there the whole time then surely the Cult of Skaro could have used it? Unless the implication is that it showed up on Earth in the 1940s via time-travel, which is what the fan film 'The Dalek that Time Forgot' went with (though that's obviously not canon) As with a lot of Moffat's Dalek ideas, it's a bit silly and doesn't really mesh with what we saw in prior Dalek stories, it simply serves its purpose to the narrative and is then never brought up again

[@peubs]

Call me crazy but I prefer the white Supreme dalek....

[@SIRKlLLALOT]

You are crazy

[@robertfoster7807]

davros became bitter when he was knocked back for a invalid pension

[@analothor]

i really wanna know the Daleks exact chain of command

[@jonathancampbell5231]

I think they actually go through different forms of government, honestly- keep in mind though, they are thousands of years old at least.

[@AKOfficial96]

Probably something roughly like: Cult of Skaro (Secretly) Dalek Emperor Supreme Daleks Dalek Royal Guards (Seen protecting the Emperor) Other Daleks *** Later on they replace they Emperor with a Dalek Parliament and Prime Minister The Dalek Paradigm comes under this Then other Daleks.

[@Aurora_Borealis_UK]

@@AKOfficial96the Dalek Parliament was eventually destroyed over Trenzalore