"What is the Kaaba? Perspectives from the Early Islamic Period," by Sean Anthony

[@sidneysentell2510]

Excellent presentation. I recommend Dr. Anthony’s book as well.

[@tjbergren]

Is anyone aware of any archaeological evidence for the existence of the Kaaba and/or Mecca as described in the later narratives?

[@terrycihat4136]

They got nothin !

[@tjbergren]

@@terrycihat4136 I agree.

[@tjbergren]

@@terrycihat4136 Check out the massive Muslim response to the question…sarcasm intended.

[@terrycihat4136]

@@tjbergren They have pictures and books. You don`t have to live in a muslim country to know what is going on. I can read and have good vision. I have read your literature and found it quite comical.

[@tjbergren]

Your reply makes no sense. Good luck.

[@tjbergren]

Also a legitimate source for Muhammad destroying the idols in the Kaaba is from the Mishnah…Genesis Rabbah where Abraham destroys idols. Interestingly in the same Genesis Rabbah you’ll also find Abraham being thrown into the fire story as it is in the Quran.

[@terrycihat4136]

Mythology !

[@tjbergren]

@@terrycihat4136 terry, my point is that the source for the Muhammad story is from earlier Rabbinical writings-mythical or not

[@terrycihat4136]

@@tjbergren You do realize that Hebrew only goes back till 1200 BCE. Homo sapiens were here 300,000 years ago. The jews hold NO special truth ! Their resources cannot be trusted.

[@earnesteffort8115]

Thanks for your presentation. Dear brother, does the Qur'an mention anywhere that Prophet Ibrahim and Ishmael built the foundation of the Kaaba in Macca? Rather, it is mentioned that they laid the foundation of the first house at Bacca valley.

[@saidhashi2856]

B And M are interchangeable in Arabic dialect spoken in Hijaz region.

[@earnesteffort8115]

@@saidhashi2856 Are there any other examples of like this in the Qur'an?

[@saidhashi2856]

@@earnesteffort8115 According to Muslim scholars Bakkah is an ancient name for Makka, the most holy city of Islam. (The word Makka is only used once in the Quran in verse 48:24 And Bakka: "Indeed, the first House [of worship] established for mankind was that at Bakkah [i.e., Makkah] - blessed and a guidance for the worlds." (Quran 3:96) According to Lisān al-'Arab of Ibn Manẓūr, the site of the Kaaba and its surroundings was named Bakkah due to crowding and congestion of people in the area. The Arabic verb bakka (بَكَّ), with double "k", means to crowd like in a bazaar. The form Bakkah is used for the name Mecca in the Quran in 3:96, while the form Mecca is used in 48:24. In South Arabic, the language in use in the southern portion of the Arabian Peninsula at the time of Muhammad, the b and m were interchangeable.

[@BanjoSick]

This Kabaa thing gives me so many idea for Dungeons&Dragons!!!

[@terrycihat4136]

That`s wat it is Dungeons and Dragons,total fantasy, with Superman appearing as Muhammed !

[@AshokGupta-oq6hs]

Sir,Kaaba in Mecca is an empty box like man made structure which is worshipped by Muslims 5 times a day and as well a pilgrimage called Haj to be undertaken by all muslims at least once in their lifetime subjected to affordability.

[@yourstruly5706]

No, they only worship God. The Kaaba is the direction they face for unity.

[@tirandaz7612]

Ali ibn Abi Talib, (aws) was son-in-law. Not father-in-law.

[@terrycihat4136]

Do I ask you about your father in law ? Do you ask me ? Who cares?

[@Yhya26]

A clarification: the Kaaba is the direction of worship, not an idol. Even if it were to be destroyed to dust, that area is the direction we Muslims stand towards no matter which location of the world we are in.

[@donaldmcronald8989]

Qibla used to be Jerusalem. Muhammad changed it to Kaabaa to try and make Islam unique

[@saidhashi2856]

​@@donaldmcronald8989 The Quran says it's Not piety to either face East (makka) or west (Jerusalem), but piety is to believe Allah, His Messengers, Scripture and the Last day. So you are over emphasizing something that is Not major in the region. Even if the Kaaba is destroyed, Nothing changes in Islam. Everything goes as on as usual. Just like the destruction of the temple didn't bother Jews. We believe and worship Allah, The eternal God of the universe, who Never dies or slumbers.

[@donaldmcronald8989]

@@saidhashi2856 I've seen the way that Muslim men kiss and lick and cry around that stone. I don't think I'm over emphasizing.

[@saidhashi2856]

@@donaldmcronald8989 In that case you should also label the Jews and Xtians as idol worshippers becoz they also kiss, caress and lick the western wall in Jerusalem. Which they believe is the remnant of old temple. Include in that category also, all Christians who possess images or statues of Mary and Jesus as well as the Cross. Which they kiss, caress and revere. Stop arguing in falsehood. Commemoration and Symbolism is Not same as worship. The Hajj rites commemorates the obedience of Abraham to God when he was asked to sacrifice his son; and the journey of Haggar and baby Ismael. And all the lessons we can learn from them. Trust of God, Obedience to God, Sacrifice e.t.c

[@donaldmcronald8989]

@@saidhashi2856 I don't have a problem with people licking rocks if they want to. But the Kabbah ritual in Islam is the most pagan thing I've EVER seen.

[@shehuusmanhassan1166]

Qur'an 2: 144 mentioned that the Jews knew the Ka'aba to be the Qibla. We see them using the model of the Ka'aba (phylactery) for prayer . Psalm 84: 4-6 (Hebrew or Gedieons Bible) mentioned:-1.Your house 2. Pilgrimage 3 Baca (old name for Mecca as in Quran 3: 96) and 4. springs ( Zam Zam?). These are strong indicators of the primacy of the Ka'aba.

[@areon3436]

The Ka'aba was unknown to Jews and Christians until the 9th century, after it became important to Islam. It is never mentioned in any writings either religious or secular prior to then. So no, Jews and Christians never knew of the Kaaba. Only the Arab pagans of the region placed any significance in the area. History and archaeology resoundingly disproves this claim by Islam. The parallels you are attempting to draw are simply forced and obviously erroneous.

[@shehuusmanhassan1166]

1. The burning bush event was in Midyan near mount Horeb or Sinai. 2. Moses took the elders of Israel to Horeb in Midyan( now in Saudi Arabia). 3. Therefore the whole tribe was there in the vicinity of Ka'aba. Hence the phylactery.

[@shehuusmanhassan1166]

The Jews knew the Ka'aba Ka'aba well before the 9th century. The were in Medina before the coming of prophet Muhammad.

[@raularnela3654]

@@shehuusmanhassan1166 Quran 2:144 refers to the change of the qibla from praying towards Jerusalem with the Jews to Muslims uniquely praying towards the shrine in Mecca. The Jews kept praying towards Jerusalem. This cannot be taken as evidence that the Jews thought of the Meccan kaaba as an originally Abrahamic site. Strike one. The phylacteries which Jews wear are not models of the kaaba. They contain texts of the Torah and have no kaaba-related meaning for them. Just because two objects happen to be cubes doesn’t mean one of them is a model of the other and derives its meaning from it. The cube is a basic geometric shape. It’s not surprising different groups utilized it for different purposes across history. Strike two. Psalm 84 refers to a pilgrimage made towards Jerusalem. Baka does not refer to Mecca. It refers to a place on the way of making pilgrimage to Jerusalem while they are weeping. That’s what the name Baka (בּכא) means - weeping, which also explains the imagery in the verse of “making it a place of springs” by their weeping and “the autumn rains also covering it with pools.” The psalm also explicitly mentions in verse 7 (the VERY NEXT VERSE after the verses you cited) that it’s talking about them making pilgrimage to Zion. Zion is another name for Jerusalem. It’s used all over the Bible in reference to Jerusalem. The “house” and “dwelling place” and “courts of Yahweh” referred to in the psalm clearly refer to the Temple in Jerusalem, as in the rest of the Bible. It has nothing to do with Mecca or the kaaba. Islam doesn’t even portray the kaaba as God’s “dwelling place” or “courts.” So you’re going to ignore these titles of the building in the psalm and only focus on “house”? Is that good exegesis? Strike three. Horeb/Sinai are in the SINAI peninsula. Midian is east of the Gulf of Aqaba. This is nowhere near Mecca. Look at the map. Lol for you to say “therefore the whole tribe was there in the vicinity of the kaaba” is just laughable and ridiculous. Strike four. Honestly my friend if your belief system forces you to try to shove puzzle pieces where they don’t fit, and to ignore true context and make up your own context, you need to rethink your belief system. I have not seen people distort history and distort religious texts for their biased purposes more than Muslims.

[@raularnela3654]

@@shehuusmanhassan1166remember that the Islamic pilgrimage to the kaaba in Mecca is not the only pilgrimage that’s existed in human history. Also recognize that it was pagans who were performing the hajj every year before Muhammad appropriated it for his new religious movement. Not only did Muhammad continue the pilgrimage that the pagans were doing at that location, but he also continued all the same practices associated with it that the pagans were doing. And this is according to classical Muslim scholars. Do you really think pagans perfectly preserved all these practices for thousands of years all the way back to Abraham? I think it’s much more likely that the historical Abraham had nothing to do with the kaaba or the pilgrimage to it, that it didn’t even exist at Abraham’s time, as the account of Abraham’s life in the Bible and in all Jewish and Christian literature after the Bible, his life journey took him from Ur (in modern day Iraq) to the land of Canaan, to Egypt, and back to Canaan. And sometime later pagans erected a shrine in Mecca when a meteorite fell from the sky. Pagans in the ancient world tended to erect shrines where meteorites fell to the earth, seeing it as the gods coming down to them in some sense. The kaaba in Mecca wasn’t even the only kaaba in Arabia during Muhammad’s time. It just happened to be the shrine at his hometown. And Muhammad wanted to make his hometown monotheistic, and so he invented some new history and projected Abraham onto the Kaaba. And applied all the practices of hajj to his new religion. And the only difference is he made it all about one god instead of many. That’s the only difference. He even kissed the black stone as the pagans did. You really think the pagans perfectly preserved these traditions since the time of Abraham?

[@laminyabou645]

Very bad audio

[@eva4adam451]

Hi. Indians once swore to me the holy stone was stolen from India.

[@Zarghaam12]

Some comments are quite hilarious - and show ignorance of the topic. I'm sure the Ancient Greeks being avid geometers would love the cube, the "mu'akkab"! BTW, the words, "mu'akkab" and "ka'bah" have the same root, with related meanings. Additionally, the building is different from that meteorite .... and NO it is not an object of worship!

[@D-Trez]

One of the biggest smokescreen is the steering of the argument to whether muslims "worship the kaaba". The kaaba only has sacred value because of what is inside the kaaba. It is what lives in the kaaba (Allah's house) is what muslims are bowing down to. The black stone is allah.

[@puneet90]

Many muslims point out "idol worship" as haram and shit but kabbah is nothing but an idol, it's just that it's not beautifully crafted and doesn't look very elegant.

[@anaskpalmalaki8804]

Muslim did not worship Kaabah

[@puneet90]

@@anaskpalmalaki8804 So they are just stupid to do a ritualistic revolution around it ?

[@prakyathkumar8618]

@@anaskpalmalaki8804 did not? when and at point point in time did they start to worship?

[@mylikes5942]

Okay, then show me one Idol worshipper who climbs upon their God's Idol or gets inside it..

[@puneet90]

@@mylikes5942 Why would you want to do that ? Are you really this stupid or part of some social experiment to test how people would react when you showcase irrationality?

[@wdobni]

the kaaba predated islam and was a ritual pagan 'worship' structure of plain rock carved into a brutalist crude cuboidal shape .... it may be contrasted with the greek Parthenon built as a worship structure to the goddess Athena .... in aviation analogies the kaaba would resemble a box kite while the Parthenon would resemble a Boeing 747 ...... the difference is the measure of the different imaginative potential and technical skill between the two cultures

[@Maynard-il1yj]

Now look at it and it’s prayed to… it’s going to come aliveeee ahhhhh

[@samieik2011]

'different imaginative potential and technical skill' you clearly have no idea about what early Muslims achieved. The difference is not what potential they had but they were required to preserve their dimensions of the Kaaba as it was directed to Abraham. Hope that makes sense.

[@terrycihat4136]

@@samieik2011 we never get tired of you telling us how smart you are !

[@twelvestitches984]

It's meteor worship.

[@timetoreason7090]

Not only meteor or a *stone* worship, but also pagan, idol worship. Do we have to do than in this day and age. Of course it was ok for the 7th Centuray.

[@beefymario88]

What’s bad is how badly they treat ‘pagans’ whilst climbing over each other to kiss a stone. It’s so hypocritical.

[@timetoreason7090]

@@beefymario88 That is a good one 👍👍👍🙏. Hope YT won't hide this thread too

[@SaifElaroussi]

@@beefymario88Muslims don’t believe the kaaba has power and authority itself, whereas pagans literally ask statues for help. It’s just a sacred building. Muslims believe the wearing of amulets is shirk, whereas Christians wear the cross for protection against evil. Really dumb arguments here.

[@arusirham3761]

No its just an ordinary stone. Black stone was a symbol for the sun god Elagabalus in Roman Syria.

[@trustmebrobro]

😂 why do people discuss which they do not know? The pagans placed idols inside the Kabaa. They were worshipping the idols, not the building. Prophet Muhammad removed the idols. Its now an empty house of worship for the 1 true God. The catholic church did the exact same thing in Vatican. They converted pagan temples to a house of worship for the God man Jesus. 😂

[@Maynard-il1yj]

Well Mohammed said he was okay with the intersession but jibril said that wasn’t a part of the plan. Yeah Catholics are also satanic 😂

[@TheJackfd81]

Kaaba is still a place of paganism

[@holyleague8286]

But they didn't keep the Pagan Gods and idols like muslims keep al-lah, Jinn & black stone 🕋

[@trustmebrobro]

@holyleague8286 I guess the arabic christians are praying to a false God since they call their God Allah? 😂 No one prays to Jinns. 😂 that's like saying priest who heal possessed people worship demons. again, you struggle with different languages as if the pope doesn't speak Latin. And if the black stone was removed, it wouldn't change islam in any way. And lastly, Go to Rome, there are carvings of pagan deities in every holy site in Rome. 😂

[@trustmebrobro]

@@TheJackfd81 I'm not sure how muslims can be pagans having 1 God and all. But it's clear you christians are pagans with your 3 gods 🤷🏻‍♂️

[@samirhachad643]

It's funny to watch ignorant people talk about things bigger than themselves😅

[@arusirham3761]

Sean Anthony is a historian, not an ignorant.

[@samirhachad643]

@@arusirham3761 Being a historian, even if he is a professor of history in harvard and oxford and....., does not mean that he is not ignorant in islam, and very big one

[@arusirham3761]

@@samirhachad643 I assume you are a muslim, and yeah it is very common for an average muslim to judge any non muslim talking about Islam from a critical historical perspective as ignorant.

[@samirhachad643]

@@arusirham3761 making up things without any proof is not "critical historical perspective"

[@cdo...49283]

​@@samirhachad643 'Made up things'? Like every Muslim source on Mohammad written well over a century after he died by men..