What Is The "P.A.F." Sound?

[@RhettShull]

Who is your favorite P.A.F. player?

[@WasserFlaschenFan]

Kossoff

[@ebathurst9216]

The Reverend Billy F Gibbons😎

[@andymccormick7542]

Gary Moore and Mark Knopfler

[@joeycastle1997]

Billy Gibbons or Peter Green

[@josephcole9340]

Robert Fripp

[@Texasbluesalley]

Me: PAFs aren't really my thing. Rhett: (makes this video). Me: I have always said that I loved PAF pickups.

[@r3altalk28]

Lol. For real

[@1106Winter]

Too bad Lover and Butt didn't work together. The name would be the 'Butt-Lover pickup'. Works ons many levels.

[@fon267]

Waaahahahaha

[@mauricerogerson5825]

That shit's funny! I don't care who you are.

[@geraldfriend256]

Best pickup line ever.

[@RandalSmith]

They might’ve called it the Lover-Butt pickup, and that works too.

[@giulioposenato9332]

This must go up

[@blaisevaughan5608]

I’m absolutely loving these “what is the sound?” videos.

[@sthubbins4038]

Yes, so cool. My only request is that he finds focus, then clicks off the "AF" switch on the lens ;)

[@tephros19]

Likewise. It's this weird combination of the history of the component or piece of gear, mixed with a producers perspective of what the piece of equipment is capable of/does really well. As someone who still struggles with developing his "sound" these are so good.

[@themikepadua]

I want to commend Rhett not only on his playing, but his writing and storytelling. Major talent developing here on several fronts.

[@popogejo7245]

Absolutely agree, Rhett is fur sure one of the best go-to guys on YT. Have liked everything he's done since I found him.

[@PaleCentaur]

Great camera presence too. The ability to sit in front of a camera and tell a story that's interesting without having to rely on KZbin gimmicks is its own skill. Rhett is fantastic at this kind of video.

[@themikepadua]

@@KoenStrobbe-fv5us I will be your guest, thanks.

[@fluffytoaster427]

Me: "I'm an adult who's interested in relatively unknown history." Rhett: "Ray *Butts* " Me: *seth rogen laugh*

[@RhettShull]

Best comment

[@zachshipstead5247]

More like "ray BUTTS, raymond BUTTS

[@dodmusic9255]

I wish Seymour Duncan and Ray Butts had a special collaboration to make a new pickup brand called "SEYMOUR/BUTTS".

[@KeolaDonaghy]

Cue Beavis and Butthead…

[@kennypetrowski]

Sooo.. was it Butts Lover, or Lover Butts? One of the most important unanswered questions about the history of rock n roll.

[@misterknightowlandco]

I find it funny how back then they just wanted to make stuff that worked as efficiently as possible. It was all about saving production costs and what they could get their hands on. Didn't think twice about it. That approach is part of how we got all these great unique tones back in the day. These days people flip if a company tries something new or just throws shit together and forums go nuts with complaints about QC. Just imagine what companies could come up with if we werent so obsessed with specs. Just a thought.

[@misterknightowlandco]

@@GCKelloch necessity is the mother of all invention. If the guitar market wants fresh young people to enter it, chasing after 50-70s tones for all the dentists and lawyers out there ain't going to hack it. The major brands out there need to start doing some weird shit to get some interest. There are high schoolers out there now that if all they listen to is popular music that have rarely if ever even heard guitar prominent music. Not trying to be a buzz kill, but we can't live in boomer land forever.

[@anmolatwal]

People in the past:- efficient and cheap product Now....throbak chargin 600 dollar for a set of pickups

[@johnshanesyandtheaccommoda1189]

Anmol Singh yeahhhhhhhhh but that 335 tone at 3:35(nice Rhett) i don’t know mannn

[@anmolatwal]

@@johnshanesyandtheaccommoda1189 i know man...but the thing is if you are at the level where you can hear every single thing in a mix and pin point what is what....then fine....but i dont think any pickup is worth that price....again....the greatest tones were on so called cost effective stuff. Maybe its just me...

[@ekw555]

@@misterknightowlandco oh, we are absolutely stuck there musically. think about how OLD "classic rock" is. turn on the radio and stuff from the 60s & 70s is still playing. 1970 was FIFTY years ago. when I was growing up in the 70s (I was born in mid 60s), the "oldies" station played stuff from the Fifties. They were not playing big band stuff from the 20's & 30's, lol.

[@markgarcia8253]

In my experience as a guitar tech. Low output pickups, regardless of type, are superior in every way (tone, response, feedback, etc) compared to any medium or high output pickups. Alnico 2 and alnico 4 are even better than alnico 5 or ceramic magnets. And depending on your amp you can have a versatile tone with very minimal gear

[@valebliz]

Interesting, why? What makes them superior in your opinion?

[@BizarrePudding]

Interesting point...I have an '82 Gold Top with Tim Shaw PAF-style humbuckers...From what I've been told they are relatively low output...They are astoundingly great sounding pickups

[@markgarcia8253]

valebliz : Any serious guitar player will have a pedal board and/or a decent amp for any gain they might need. The problem with medium and high output pickups is it compresses the signal from the source, then gets compressed again at the gain stages (either pedals or cranked amp), and then AGAIN in the power section with the power tubes/speaker. All added together in which causes a muddy tone. And I’m not talking about dirty or OD, I’m talking about just ugly noise. Especially with neck and middle pickups. That being said you can get away with that on the bridge position with medium or high output but then you’ll have to modify the amp or pedal gain youre running it thru if you’re picky about your tone

[@markgarcia8253]

Matias z : That’s partially true about the gain and false about the sustain. The pickup’s height affects both that you just mentioned. 90% of the guitar’s sustain comes from the neck joint (set-in necks resonate longer because it has more surface area connected to the body than the bolt-on joint); 5% on the weight; 5% on the guitar’s setup. So if you have low output pickup neck and a medium bridge pickup, you’d lower the bridge more than the neck so you can balance the dynamics. And the results allows you to have more compression for the bridge and less compression for the neck. Both of which is more than enough for clean playing and extremely versatile for any OD or distortion

[@markgarcia8253]

D P : Exactly. The pickup height also plays a role in the tone but I keep mine lower so there’s less compression going into my pedals/amps.

[@Orvulum]

The JTM45, otherwise known as the Marshall 'Plexi', was an exact copy of the Fender Bassman 5F6A, with some relatively minor differences in just a few components. The 5F6A was factory equipped with a 12AY7 in the first stage of amplification, whereas the JTM45 featured a higher gain 12AX7. What's interesting about that tube choice for the front end is that many players learned to swap out the 12AY7 for a 12AX7 in the Fender amp for an edgier sound, long before Marshall came out with their clone. This was an intuitive thing to try, since the 12AY7 and the 12AX7 are interchangeable, with the main difference being the voltage gain. Also worth note is that the difference in sound between the Marshall JTM45 and the Fender 5F6A was largely due to the different loudspeakers that were used by the respective manufacturers in their speaker cabinets. It's pretty common knowledge amongst guitarists that musical instrument loudspeakers introduce a significant coloration to the sound that can vary from one speaker model to the next.... In summary, it is pretty widely recognized amongst amp builders that Leo Fender should be recognized, not just for his guitars, but also for the ground breaking design and signature 5F6A sound that became so popular in the early development of the electric guitar.

[@merseybeat1963]

That's the theory and that's what I thought so I ordered a Victoria Bassman the most accurate copy of an original Bassman made today and on full blast it sounds nothing like my old Marshall 50 Watt Plexi (which I no longer own) The theory falls short. The only difference would be the 4 10" Jensen's instead of Celestions.But that I can tell isn't going to be enough to make it Plexi like.

[@notanotherguitarchannel]

Back in those days when electric guitars were relatively new, design was largely based on ease of production or marketing, and subtle differences in tone were accidental, yet they nonetheless set a standard for the ideal sound. This is not the same story for violins, pianos, or almost any other instrument that was developed over a longer period of time.

[@dustinbeasley]

Love the cover of "Brown Sugar" by ZZ Top. That first ZZ Top record was so great, and completely overshadowed by their later records.

[@Thatbobguy8]

100% correct!

[@absea7918]

Great video. I had read that when the humbuckers first came out, musicians had split opinions - they liked that the hum was removed, but complained they didn't sound like the P-90, that the sounds was darker, and not as punchy. As we all know, music changed as the 60's wore on, and the humbucker fit the rock sound perfectly. For me, the PAF sound is Jimmy Page (Song Remains the Same live concert), and early Billy Gibbons.

[@larrysentelle1244]

Jimmy Page played a Telecaster on the early Zep albums. The early Telecaster bridge pickups are very similar in tone to Leo Fender's early lap steel pickups, not disimilar to a P90 tonality, certainly hotter than a Stratocaster's bridge pup. Communication Breakdown is a good display of this sound, Punk Rock tone tone before there was a genre known as Punk Rock.

[@IJIIKY9192]

@Larry Sentelle the telecaster was only the featured guitar the first record. LZ 2 and on heavily feature #1. While LZ 2 features both #1 and his Black Beauty. The dragon Tele was brought out for Stairway and other teles got used here or there for a parts or a song

[@OldeDog_NewTricks]

Did the introduction of the humbucker pick up change the sound of rock and roll, or did the sound of rock and roll change due to the adoption/popularity of the humbucking pick ups? 🤔

[@barbmelle3136]

From Leo: Good report, and the interviews made it top notch. Everyone forgets that a radio engineer in South Bend, Indiana, developed and patented the "hum cancelling transducer for steel stringed instruments" in 1936. As a radio man, he never manufactured or sold any pickups to guitar makers, so he is completely forgotten. Certainly the Butts design, and later the Gibson style are very usable and easy to adapt to guitars. If you have ever seen an original Charlie Christian pickup, they were terribly complex and difficult to install in a guitar. We are very lucky in this day to have so many viable pickup choices. Even the copycats from china and Korea offer some amazingly good pickups.

[@stevenroznowski6007]

I own an actual PAF equipped 1959 ES-335. I’ve read a lot of Gibson history, and this video is true to everything I’ve heard and read, but is also very concise and fascinating. Great job!!

[@KeolaDonaghy]

Lordy, that opening cut was beautiful, great tone. I can't name a single player who I know uses PAFs that I'd highlight. I have Lindy Fralin's Pure PAFs in a LP double-cutaway that I built last year, and they are amazing. I can't accurately describe them, but itʻs like there is some magical audio pixie dust that floats just above everything else. I've not heard it in anything else. I've never had the privilege of playing an instrument with real PAFs so can't comment on the differences. As always Rhett, an outstanding video, great analysis and playing!

[@bongnp]

Enjoyed the video. Everybody thinks hotter pickups have more output, but remember size of wire (and amount of wire added) matters. 8k 42 awg (10k turns of thicker wire) is louder than 8k 43 awg (8k turns of skinnier wire). Less turns needed to get higher resistance, ending up with less wire on the bobbins... Now we are talking inductance (Henries). An 8k 42 awg pickup with be much louder than a 14k pickup wound with 46 awg. Thanks for reading - take care.

[@CS_Murphy_R9]

Yeah i have a Duncan screamin demon that is 10K A5 and it is about the same output as a 8.0K P.A.F due to the wire used. It is not a hot pickup despite its name. very misleading name. it is actually quite vintage in output.

[@chzzyg2698]

I got a pair of Seth Lover's last year for one of my Les Paul's, and suddenly they're my number one favorite pickups. I'm thinking about putting them in my AF75, and another Les Paul. They sound great. Very balanced and open sounding. Great for classic rock and blues.

[@photohum]

For the record, Seth lover applied for his humbucker patent first on June 22nd 1955. Butts applied about two years after on January 22, 1957. But Butts got approved first on June 30th 1959. And then the humbucker on July 28, 1959

[@RC32Smiths01]

It's really interesting that we have assigned so much value to tone in this day and age, tone is such a motivator to playing guitar in my opinion. Also another sick intro man!

[@GPaulTheThrashKing]

I think tone is not nearly so important as feel. A 5150 feels very different to a fender tube amp, but they all feel lively, even at low volumes, compared to say a boss katana (fucking terrible amp). How the amp reacts to you is just such a hugely important thing, and the immediate response and bloom of the note and touch sensitivity are just so tremendously important in how we play. It’s like playing a hunk of wood versus a good acoustic with a resonant soundbox. The amp is the soundbox, and is as much part of the instrument as the actual “guitar” part

[@RC32Smiths01]

@@GPaulTheThrashKing I always thought that tone and feeling go hand in hand. You convey feeling with the tone. In other words, tone reflect feeling, and feeling reflects tone.

[@GPaulTheThrashKing]

RC32 I guess. I mean, obviously how the amp feels is based directly on what you play, but, take for instance a boss katana or one of the nicer modelers. The question has never been, can you get your guitar to sound decent through them. We answered the question around 15-20 years ago. Yeah, you can get them to sound good. Does it feel the same to play through? Does it react as quickly, or as dynamically? That’s a different question. In a way you can have a good tone from an amp that still sort of feels off. Edit: I guess it’s a matter of perspective. The audience gets the tone of an amp, but only the player really gets the feel of an amp.

[@art.howard]

It's also far easier to sell products on tone that it is to sell learning and practicing.

[@mwagliardo]

Pleasure to hear John, the man behind ThroBak and the tremendous historical knowledge he shares. The original Gibson winding machines are definitely guitar history! Great episode Rhett

[@tedjohnson5210]

This kind of thing is a guitar nerd’s dream. I’ve been playing about 6 months and feel like a sponge learning all these details about why a guitar sounds like it does. So cool.

[@mikewithers299]

I've been playing guitar for years and I'm still learning more each day. You finally get a sound you've been looking for, and then another awesome sound comes along. Keep "sponging" and find your sound or "voice" as they call it. Good luck and always be willing to try new things.

[@jayall00]

amazing points from a guitar master/builder. I would like to rant a bit 14:14 this is exactly why type of wood and construction matters. Everyone wants to debunk the idea of tone wood. Yeah there's no such thing as tone wood, but resonance and vibrations are a thing that exist. There are nodal points all along the strings, _and_ the body. The pickups are a microphone for the strings _as well as_ the entire body, WHICH the strings have a direct correlation to. When I strum my guitar, the body vibrates. When I tap any part of the guitar body, you can hear it through the amp. This should tell you that the body itself carries vibrations, and vibrations from all corners of the body have an affect on sound output. How small that effect is, is up to debate. If you want to really hear the differences in wood, you could just play acoustic guitars made out of different types of wood, where the difference is immaculate And to really dig deeper... Mahogany is a solid and practical material for a guitar. It's incredibly dense. if you ever strummed acoustically an LP reissue, the entire guitar vibrates for 30 seconds straight. These vibrations also get distributed evenly throughout the guitar. It resonates as one whole. If it wasn't solid mahogany, it wouldn't vibrate the same way. Mahogany has a specific make-up and density. You can shatter a wine glass by singing its frequency out of phase. You can try doing it to an exact replica made out of wood, and nothing will happen. It's denser. It would require a louder and lower pitch, but it still won't break because it has a different make-up. It's stronger than glass and vibrations travel through it differently. Maybe mahogany wood adds characteristics because of its density. Maybe it adds 2 extra overtones that we can't even hear, or it steals overtones and helps shape the top-end or low-end, adding flavor to the spectrum. Maybe it doesn't do anything. But density has an effect. That's proven. And mahogany has a specific density, which makes it desirable Even if there's no difference, I'd rather have a guitar built out of solid mahogany than any other material, just for the sake of tradition, durability, and feel

[@scottakam]

I started winding my ow pickups this year. I started with PAF ish specs. The difference between them and my SD hotrodded humbuckers was shocking. Much closer to single coils than I thought they would be. I started out with A2 magnets but wound up swapping them for A5s and prefer them.

[@johnvcougar]

Do you have a channel? Love to hear some stuff!

[@scottakam]

@@johnvcougar Ha, no channel for me. I just like messing around making guitars and playing guitars. Not particularly good at either!

[@Burkhimself]

A5 all the way.....

[@johnvcougar]

@@scottakam best hobby ever. Hit me up if you ever release any toons my man!

[@simonevans6570]

Scott Akam good P.A.Fs are more like single coil, the early Gibson’s were often known as a tele on steroids. I use Gibson custombuckers on a R8 and they are so much more like a single cool clarity than a hotter pick up like the Gibson classic 57 in my trads which are much thicker/muddier in comparison

[@jimkirkhoff1972]

Interesting vid. As an engineer working in the coil winding biz for 20 years, a few things to add... #1. Wire tension. The more tension, the higher the resistance. This also plays into coil winding. Tension will change the way the wire lays and that affects its interaction with the magnet. #2. The layering of the wire. We built machines that had all wires EXACTLY next to each other without any space. This vid talks about the number of turns. Pffff. That is a given in anything built beyond 1970. maximizing what we called "slot fill" was a goal. That means that every wire nests next to each other and you get the most copper into space. #3. Magnets are not magnets. Their guass varies wildly. Then again, if you have too much tension on the wire when wound, It all gets back to 6 Sigma. Consistent magnets. Same size/annealing of wire. Exact layering. /you can crush it every time,

[@zeusallmighty04]

After years of saving, I finally got my dream Les Paul form Chicago Music Exchange. Got the 58' VOS, and it's got these babies in it. The chime like ring and full rainbow of sound, is like nothing I've ever played. Absolutely stunning

[@ph6376]

Would have been cool if Joseph Butts and Seth Lover had collaborated on a pickup. Then we could have the Butts Lover Humbucker.

[@madhudason]

Hey @Rhett Shull, you should have your own Discovery channel show on all things guitar. Your voice, presentation style and research into subject matter is world class.

[@preacherjohn9986]

When I was first introduced into ZZtop music I was 17 (1974) when I first heard the Tres Hombres album. When other high school buddies showed me that they had 2 other albums, I was sold on them. Brown Sugar was one of my favorites that I played over and over. Good job.

[@RideAcrossTheRiver]

"Down Brownie"!

[@joshphillips7028]

I LOVE the homage paid to ZZ Top in the intro, "Gotta have some of that brown sugar." Nice rendition. Thanks for the insight on the PAF sound. ZZ Top first album is the best.

[@tolvajakos]

yeah, zz top never even came close to their first album. everything else they did has some (or more) amount of what seems to be mockery to me, whereas the first album is true true blues awesomeness

[@JensenSpeakersVideos]

Tried many PAF style pickups, and the set of Throback PG-102 (Peter Green, but without the phase inversion) I have on my Collings I-35LC is hands down the best I have played, one of the very few that actually stands on par with the two original PAFs I have on a 1964 ES-345 TD SV that are "the" benchmark. Terrific sounding pickups! Thank you @Jon for such an incredible work!

[@phowell333]

Congrats on the 250,000 Rhett! Well-deserved...your videos are unique and you have a "straight-to-the point" presentation style. One more thing - great editing. The majority of viewers have no idea how much work goes into it. Keep 'em comin'!

[@goswo]

Jon is new to me, but I have seen some videos with him lately. This guy know what he`s talking about. Respect...

[@emmanueldubois5882]

That was one fantastic video. I have a 59 Les Paul Reissue and I love it, but I have been curious about the various PAF sounds out there and I now have a much clearer vision of where to go with perhaps modding that Les Paul. Thank you so much! Hats off to making those “tech videos” as compelling as those in which you actually play more!

[@merseybeat1963]

I have two 1999 Historic Reissue 1959's ..one with the original stock pickups and the other with Seth Lover Duncan's. I should have saved the stock Gibson ones we took out of the one as I like the ones in the stock historic better than the Seth Lover as it's hotter.

[@ashleydog45]

I have a set of Throbak pickups DT-102 model and I love them. They are low output but everyone who picks up my guitar thinks they are hot pickups. They are definitely worth the money. 2006 Gibson Les Paul.

[@AndrasRemenyiACCA]

One of the best sound on a guitar is PAF. Hands down. Not saying the other ones are any mean bad. Its just a personal preference. Would you agree?

[@MrSandieman666]

Its as diverse as the guitar in itself. You can make paf's scream but to me they sound too glassy.

[@billgross176]

Tele guy... so no I wouldn’t 😀

[@xdoctorblindx]

Nope, humbuckers are always my last choice (behind tele, strat, and jazzmaster single coils), and if I have to play humbuckers, I prefer the clarity of a filtertron.

[@kuitaristi3003]

I like PAF because it's lower power pickup so player can take almost all overdrive/gain from amp, and or pedals. I also like that brightness and nice note definition/separation.

[@robertclarkguitar]

I like the LAF hahaha. Roswell in my tele fusion. Sounds great to me!

[@roberttosa2560]

So informative and entertaining. I have a LesPaul with PAF pickups and love the sound and range but have often wondered what exactly makes it all work. Love the fact that he has one of the original Gibson winders as well as the bill of sale. That’s dedication to recreating the original sound of the PAF. And lastly thanks for another outstanding video, Rhett. ✌️

[@RegularGuitars]

We have to admit how awesome is to have "Seth Lover" as a name.

[@alexmc69]

Even better if you had doctor as a title

[@art.howard]

His middle name was "Easy."

[@Camaink1]

Is that guitar you're talking about greeny!!? The one from Peter Green that is now owned by Kirk Hammett!! That is a legendary guitar!!

[@Brannington]

Another Gretsch pickup you should cover is the Dynasonic, Pretty please!

[@jerrystephenson1172]

The dynasonic is another example where they got it right. I prefer singles & these are some of my favorites!

[@prateekpoddar1890]

Seconded!

[@robbyclark6915]

I absolutely LOVE your playing! Your style is so reminiscent of that iconic 70s rock/blues sound. The sound I grew up with and just naturally gravitate towards my own self.

[@josephrasbold2180]

Hi Rhett! i just wanted to add, that Rickenbacker actually had a humbucking pickup a couple years before Gibson and Gretsch with their "Horseshoe" design on their Combo series of guitars! (Check out the Combo 800 guitar)

[@desert_rat_guitar]

Rhett, you have gotten much better in the last year and I compliment you. I love guitar history and you told this story with excitement and insight. I just finished reading "The Birth of Loud" but you still added a lot of information not in that book. You are now one of the trio I follow when it comes to explaining how rock evolved, the other two are Rick Beato and Five Watt World. You are creating your niche in KZbin world.

[@danielnuzum8117]

The PAF 7 string pickup from Dimarzio is undoubtedly my absolute favorite. It has the cleanest headroom and the most dynamics of any that I have ever played. That is also coming from someone that primarily plays Hi-gain amps. They hold their own so well against other hotter 7 string pickups and do better for leads and cleans and in my opinion have a clearer sound for heavy stuff

[@plexibreath]

I have a PRS Artist I ordered to my specs in in 1993. It's a great playing guitar, but for a long time I didn't care for the tone. I tried at least five different bridge pickups and almost as many neck pickups. About five years ago I ordered a Throbak Peter Green pickups, the PG-102 for my R7 Les Paul. Well it turned out the PG-102 just wasn't to my taste in that gold top. I thought I might as well try it in the PRS Artist. Holy Guardrails Batman! That PRS just came alive! Until I experienced that I would have told you a pickup can't make that big a difference, I would have been wrong. I have about 12 or 13 guitars including a real '55 Gibson Les Paul Custom, but this PRS Artist has become my tone, it's far and above my own "sound" and it's not the sound I would have ever thought would be me, but it just is. Thank you Jon! Beyond that. For the neck pickup I finally stumbled on would in my opinion works best in that guitar, the Lindy Fralin Twangmaster. The Twangbucker sounds good by itself, and really pairs well with the Throbak.

[@TobyKBTY]

PAF in a semi hollow is THE sound for me. That sweetness, man

[@fredvanderlinden8908]

I have PAF style pickups in my semi hollow body made by hauser a German boutique pick up manufacturer. Great sound but I need to turn down the volume on my guitar to get this warm sound. Drop down the treble also.

[@GG256_]

Whooooo boy you aren't kidding. It's perfectly dirty enough for hard rock but perfectly sharp and clear enough for blues. It's that pentatonic workhorse

[@bradt.3555]

The PAF sound has been totally blown out of proportion. Like it's some specific definative tone. The truth is there was a lot of variation in specs back in the 50's, so Gibson's style of humbucker varied a lot. There are different way's to design a humbucker, but ANY pickup built like a Gibson humbucker and within a pretty wide variation of specs is going to sound like some PAF that was made. Anybody that tells you they have the closest PAF tone because they use plastic that smells like vomit, or some other mystical element is blowin smoke somewhere. And the day they took off the PAF sticker and stamped a pat.# on it, the tone didn't mysterically change. Electrons don't know what kind of plastic was used or what type of insulation is on the wire. It just comes down to resistance, capacitance, inductance, and magnetic field.

[@thauser777]

When you get old and cranky like me you’ll change your mind. There is science and then there is reality. Exact specifications can be replicated but can’t account for all variables in a musical instrument. Case in point, a reproduction Stradivarius violin verses the original. Granted we’re talking more electronics than wood but there are other factors you (science & engineering) may not know about yet that contribute to tone.

[@bradt.3555]

@@thauser777 , I am old and cranky, that's why I get bugged by mis-information. I agree there are a lot of variables in a guitar that account for tone, but not with differences in things like potentiometers or wire and such. There are some things electrons just can't tell the difference in. True if you build a new pickup exactly like an old one it will "probably" sound different than the one copied. But if you build the new one to match the electrical and mechanical specs it will sound the same. And if a potentiometer or a capacitor is exactly the same value as another, old or new they will sound the same. That's reality. Hearing a difference when there isn't one is another sort of reality, it's the brain fooling us cause we expect or want to hear a difference.

[@bradt.3555]

@Bigfootgerry , I get very frustrated trying to explain about pots n caps n such. People just don't understand. they swear they hear a difference, and they truly do, but the brain will trick us that way. I've experienced it too. The funny thing about pots is when it's all the way up it could be made of dog poop and not matter cause it's a direct connection. Only resistance to ground.

[@ArcticRaven0]

@Bigfootgerrylots of guys with vintage guitars yanked vintage pickups out and replaced them with Dimarzio's in the 70s. Obviously there was a better sound over vintage to the guys who replaced them. Now its all about money, bs, etc

[@bradt.3555]

@Bigfootgerry , Good idea,on a parting note, a little narcissism is ok. Many of these people don't even use Wiki., they get their info from UTube. One reason I like these discussions is not for me, or the person I may debate, (their mind is usually made up) but for others who might read it.

[@NondoPondo]

G&L had a "single coil" ish type Humbucker nobody every talks about. Also you're get a bit of Essing on videos.

[@rpgaleksy]

I believe you mean the Z-Coil on the Comanche or a similar version that is found on the Espada. In comparison to bigger brands G&L is still pretty niche so obviously there is not going to be lots of talk about it which is a pity.

[@bobbillnolan7644]

What is Essing ?

[@marcoalexanderwinthermikke9132]

@@bobbillnolan7644 When the "S"s of his speech is too pronounced and gives a piercing sound through the Microphone. So if that happens, you can use a plugin called "De-Essing", which compresses the piercing highs, when they are introduced in the track. :) The result will be a more pleasing sound to the ear. :)

[@bobbillnolan7644]

Marco Alexander Winther Mikkelsen : thank you, I thought it was a town in West Germany 😂

[@planej6315]

@@bobbillnolan7644 That would be Essen

[@IanOPadrick]

The intro jam was sick, the vid informative. Loving what I'm seeing

[@sambochen2010]

Great video Rhett! Learned a lot. By far my favorite PAF player is Jimmy Page. He was such a studio magician in what he was able to squeeze out of his #1 Les Paul as most evident on Physical Graffiti with a full spectrum of clean to wicked dirty tones. Now do another video on the single coil strat & tele tone if you haven't already. Rock on!

[@ryaneggleston4585]

@Rhett Shull, Huge fan of you and the channel(s)! Looking for a new pickup in my Les Paul and checked out Goldies, Wizz, and now ThroBak only to find Jon Gundry is based in Grand Rapids less than 3 miles from me! I'll be supporting my local shop! Thanks for introducing me!

[@j.a.s.1416]

PAF's sound amazing. Still second to P90's in my opinion. That grit and bite is so unique. Even the cleans are unique and full.

[@Xaltar_]

What is great today, compared to when I started playing especially, is how cheaply you can pick up a decent set of reproduction PAF style pickups. I have several ranging from actual Gibson reproductions to a cheap set (N/B) that I picked up for just 50 GBP shipped to my door. The cheap set sounds better than the boutique set cost me ten times as much 20 years ago. I am sure someone can pick it apart and find something wrong with them but in a mix, recorded and through a good amp these things sound brilliant, more than good enough for the budget minded to get that sound. I had to spend a fortune for that sound in the 90's and now you can get it, at least close enough, for under $100 for a set, it blows my mind. My Les Paul will always have a set of PAFs in it, nothing sounds sweeter to my ears.

[@joechecketts3009]

Rhett, thanks for posting your videos. I’m learning a lot from you and Rick.

[@bramverweij5509]

Best PAF vidéo I've seen so far. I loved it. Thanks Rhett!

[@kennygardner5041]

Lindy Fralin, although known for his single coils, has the finest PAF out there! Great tones!

[@coldwar1977]

I like BKP Mules better

[@kennygardner5041]

@@coldwar1977 I need to try those.

[@pa4tim]

When I started playing in the 80's I had a very cheap Les Paul copy. Those pickups were great, it did not matter if I had not fretted every note right because it hat the clarity of smoke-bomb, every cord using distortion sounded the same (f,i. C, C7, Cm, Csus etc all sounded the same) A friend had some real Fender Strats and I had much more trouble sounding good because you heard all my mistakes. The other side was that I was able to play stuff on the Strat I could not do on my Les Paul because the Strats were set up very good instead of not set up at all for mine. I now have a Gibson Les Paul with PAFs (the standard 60's) and I love how they sound and how it plays.

[@cesarmarquez3692]

It would be so interesting if you do a complete description of the different type of magnets. This video is well done man. Regards from Mexico city!

[@DanielAlvarez-sl6yh]

I have 1980 Tim Shaws in my 1979 Gibson Les Paul Standard and they Sound Amazing!!!!

[@KevinCarrick]

They should have joined forces and introduced them to the market as "Butt Lover pickups" BLPs.

[@oneandonlyescaton9927]

I eont know anything about pickups, but your comment has inspired me to make a hybrid between the 2 pickups and refer to them as butt lovers.

[@strongbad72]

🤣🤣

[@tolvajakos]

Oooh, the PAFtron buttlovers, they are the greatest!

[@iliastakidis5771]

lmao

[@AlvinWar]

Rhett needs to pin this comment.

[@WatchesnguitarsDK]

Great video. I went on a PAF craze during lockdown. I got Wolfetone, Monty's and OX4. And they are all great! Oh and that freed up some Burstbuckers for my old Epiphone LP. My favourite pickup type! Jon's description of the difference between A5 and A2 is not what I hear. The A5 sounds more scooped to me because of the added top and bass. Gotta love talking tone 🙂

[@readmills7399]

Check out Wolfetone pickups, if you haven't already. Wolfe makes some incredible PAF style pickups. You can do a hotter bridge pickup (close to 9k) with a more mellow neck (7.5k) that provides a lot of versatility. It's his Marshallhead bridge / Dr. Vintage neck combo. I've had them in my LP for years and never thought twice about changing them out.

[@AnomieX]

I'm only 1:31 in but just have to say that the sound on this video, both instruments and voice when you're talking, is absolutely killer, possibly the best I've heard on KZbin. Back to watching, just giving credit where it's due.

[@TacoTuesdey]

Lover & Butts they should have started their own company together. it would have been legendary

[@Skypie61]

I too love my PAFs.. I've had a couple wired with pots that pull/push to become a single coil, because I have a Custom Tele with a single coil D'Marzio Humbucker in the bridge that truly growls...And, I've also played around with removing some wax in a set of Wide Humbuckers only in the bridge set to give a slightly higher output & gain, which as Rhett mentioned is seen in touch...It works, especially when in clean mode playing Jazz and pull the pot for a Single. I also reverse my Pots so the bridge V&T are first...Mad Engineer at play...lol

[@t3hgir]

the purists won't like 'em but have you checked out Fishman's Open Core Fluence pickups? Voice 1 nails the PAF tone on both neck and bridge IMO. I picked up a new Charvel pro mod supertele with the fishmans and they are killer. They don't sound 100% authentic as they are active pups but check them out! Greg Koch swears by Fishman (though he uses tele single coils)

[@philc4520]

Jesus, this if frickin amazing man. The best & most insightful - knowledgeable video on pickups I’ve seen. Congrats Rhett, you knocked it out of the park with this one!

[@edphaze6550]

Great video, Rhett! I’d like to know more about the different versions of Gibson humbuckers such as the 490 and 500T, the tarbacks etc. what is a good source for accurate info on this subject? Thanks for all the work you do for your channel!🤘🏻

[@spoontickle12]

Out of all of the guitar youtube videos these are my favorite. Rhett's videos are super interesting and inspire me to experiment with my tone.

[@MarkPritchardGuitar]

Rhett you should check out Monty's Guitars PAF's, i have a set in my Les Paul and they are outstanding!

[@davidburke2132]

I don’t think you’ll regret trying Throbaks Rhett. I’ve tried lots of different PAF replicas (including Gibson Custombuckers, both potted and unpotted, Gibson Burstbuckers, Gibson MHS, both I and II versions, Monty’s PAFs, Bare Knuckle, WCR/Jim Wagner, two different versions of German maker Kloppmann Electric’s PAFs, etc.) and the Throbak KZ-115 MXVs I have in my R8 are the best pickups I’ve ever heard and played. As Jon describes in the video these are his example of the lower wind early type PAF and are wonderful, especially for someone like me who plays clean to crunch most of the time. Admittedly I’ve never played a guitar equipped with real PAFs and I’ve also never played the Wizz PAFs that you have (they’re high up on the list to buy and try though and would have been bought sooner except they had stopped taking new orders for a time due to order backlog last year and I went with some of the Kloppmann pickups for a guitar at that time, and of all the ones I’ve tried I’d place them second to Throbak, so no regrets). I also have a Les Paul fitted with a set of what are probably Jon’s flagship PAF version, the SLE-101 MXV, and those are great too, but for me are not quite so perfectly suited to my playing style as the lower output KZ-115s. They do give a very nice and useful tonal variation through (otherwise known as an excuse to justify having more guitars!! 😜).

[@KimonFrousios]

So, P.A.F. basically means "we didn't actually get the patent because Filtertrons beat us to it"?

[@stephenshoihet2590]

But Gibson's pickup did get a patent and Gibson continued to use the PAF label even after they got the patent. "Patent applied for" is commonly used on any devices while you're waiting for your patent number.

[@TheNewYearsEve]

@@stephenshoihet2590 Yes just as the Tron's are Humbuckin and allowed to be made? I go Gretsch tho.

[@_-_Michael_-_]

No, it just means that patent papers were aplyed on patent headquarters and its pending, in process of getting patent number. Lot of stuff was stamped PAF before they have their patent numbers. But we tend to know this term only from pickups. PAF is like “you cant steal this idea, we have it covered but not fully jet”

[@photohum]

Seth Lovers patent application went in two years before filtertrons in 1955. filtertrons was filed in 1957. Somehow filtertrons was approved a month before the humbuckers in 59

[@karll3119]

You are getting very informative and knowledgeable, a reference for reaching out the experts, interview or consult them brilliantly and share with your subscribers what we should understand and learn from them. BRAVO! :-)

[@SixStrRzr]

The intro music a real departure for you. I like me some Brown Sugar...it's a good "look" on ya.

[@IGrocker]

Since I’d never pay so much for a set of pickups for an original pair, I’ll stay in love with my Wizz set. Absolutely love them.

[@mikemorrisonmusic]

The Throbak pups seem to be the cream of the crop for PAF tone.

[@TheChadPad]

For fuck's sake, they are. He's researched them for over a decade, and replicates every excruciating detail you can imagine, cause he really cares about it. They are more expensive, but worth it if you're after the most accurate pafs

[@SdruhCram]

There are a few good winders out there who offer excellent PAF style pickups and have gone down the same rabbit hole. I've got a guitar with a set of golden era PAF's in it, I've also got guitars with OX4, Monty's, Bulldog, Wolftone and Mojo PAF style pickups in it. I've had a set of Throbak's and have tried Wizz pickups too. They're all excellent, but in truth, as real PAF pickups do vary quite a lot it becomes very subjective. For me, the OX4's in my R9 get closest to the guitar with the original PAF's in. Others mileage may vary.

[@dodmusic9255]

Stephen's Design, Tone Specific and Tom Holmes... then for the not-so-econo PAFs you got Mojotone, Sheptone and Wolfetone.

[@ScoDiddley]

Jon also made the sweetest FF and Tone Bender mkii based fuzztones. Great video

[@matthewdavis473]

Rhett are those real drums in your recorded tracks or a plug in?? Sounds great

[@joeyfarley9916]

I couldn't believe it took John til the 13min mark to start talking about wax potting. I seen the video about the wax potting he made a few years back. It isn't super noticeable recorded but it seems to be in the feel and some of the overtones for me anyway. Everyone is different that's what makes music so good. I have really been getting into the videos you have been doing lately, they have all been excellent.

[@narvul]

Resistance and Ohm readings are the same beast.

[@gregorglasbruch6917]

Maybe the search for the only one PAF Sound will never end. Having tried quite some of them I felt that the Gibson Custom Buckers are the ones to stop this quest. With help of my friend Thomas I made it to get a pair of Tom Holmes PAFs. For I did not think they could top the Custom Buckers they lied around unused for almost one year. But then one of my Les Pauls, actually the cheapest one of them, needed some rewiring and I thought I‘ll give them a try without hoping for a significant improvement. I was wrong. With the Tom Holmes pickups this guitar has improved in a way I never thought being possible. This is it. Don‘t ask me why, it‘s this fascinating beyond words.

[@leftymike5625]

, I wonder which of those players actually still had their paf pickups in there and who had modified pickups. For example Jimmy Page had his Modified by Seymour Duncan.

[@cbcredit]

The original PAFs sounded so great because of their IMPERFECTION. The best sounding ones actually had (unintentionally) different numbers of windings in each coil (sometimes wayyy off), so that the sound was NOT perfectly "humbucked", and the resulting miscreation created beautiful tone, clarity, and sustain.

[@vetlerradio]

I bet the well-made ones also sound amazing.

[@cbcredit]

@@vetlerradio - No, they don't, that's the point. The well-made ones sound very good, but the ones with different windings in each coil sound amazing BECAUSE of how imperfectly they were made.

[@Siax28]

THAT WIDE SKY 👏

[@thechannelforeverything2170]

I love PAF style pups. SD Antiquities, and Gibson Custombuckers are just some of the best sounding pickups I've ever used.

[@ipuya]

Wow, so you're saying tone wood is a thing if the pickups are not wax potted?

[@adamskold6395]

He's also saying that in a recording the difference is not so obvious. So no, it's still just in the player's head

[@AlmostGrewMyHair]

@@adamskold6395 I assume you misspelled "player's hands"?

[@adamskold6395]

@@AlmostGrewMyHair I meant to say head as I think it's all placebo, but it's a matter of perspective I guess

[@engelbertus1406]

the difference can be graphed so maybe also heard :)

[@larrypower8659]

When Tim Shaw went to work fort Gibson (late’70s thru mid ‘60s) they tasked him with recreating the PAF. I have an ‘82 Les Paul with Shaw humbuckers, and the pickups are outstanding. Early ‘80s is not a sought after era for Gibson, but Shaw humbuckers are. A pair of Shaw PAFs can go for $1K these days, a bit more or less depending on condition. If you can find a pair at a good price, you will not be disappointed-guaranteed.

[@johnwolff3206]

Should reach out to Doug and Pat , of the Doug and Pat show (lol), those guys are the "paf" guys. . They got the real ones . on their 50s les pauls.

[@MrGB1999]

Gibson Custom Buckers are without doubt the best PAF recreation. They are so on the money. And one thing people ALWAYS overlook with pickup tone isn't the pickup itself. It's pickup height and string height. Pickups, like most things, need room to breathe.

[@0001111000220]

I guess the filtertron is a catchier name than the butt-bucker.

[@ryanfulldark2775]

😂😂😂 best comment! Winner!

[@1106Winter]

Too bad Lover and Butt didn't work together. The name would be the Butt-Lover pickup. Works ons many levels.

[@Waterinmenbenen]

This comment gave me a chuckle

[@malcolmadams2105]

What about the booty rockers

[@dgw3650]

@@1106Winter Butt-Lover humbucker has a nice 60 cycle ring to it

[@MoreMeRecording]

This cat Rhett is taking with needed to add EVH to that influential original PAF list! Probably one of the reasons EVH's tone was always thought of 'clean dirty' instead of "distortion" was in part the use of this pickup. Later on Matt Bruck is noted as saying "Ed, your tone is too clean. We need to add more distortion!" but before Matt screwed with Ed's sound, it was. So along with diming the output section of his amp the use of PAFs, helped achieve that momentous sound from his rig

[@AdamGotheridge]

The Throbak pickups rule, you'll love them. Get the 50's harness too.

[@SullivanMarsters]

So true. Transformed my les Paul classic from a dull afterthought to a god damned monster

[@xeverettx2564]

Gosh this is such a freaking awesome channel!!! I stumbled upon it searching for videos of Dumble amps. It’s great content of substance, history, and accurate research and for the most part very objective and when you give your opinion you don’t over do it like some people. Between this channel and 5watt world you can find out enough info to hang in a conversation and even impress serious fellow guitar nerds!!! Thanks and keep up the great work Rhett!!!!!

[@sigogglin]

I keep watching gear videos, I may need an intervention :)

[@ohpotatoesandmolasses]

Hey, just letting you know that I'm thoroughly enjoying this series. Fortunately for you and your viewers, I'm not sure you'll ever run out of topics.

[@adamswish]

So what you're telling me is the first humbuckers came from Butz-Lover? Well, count me in as a Butz-Lover lover.

[@ZackSeifMusic]

Just got an Aristides 060 with DiMarzio PAFs and I'm in love! Great content as always Rhett. That Wide Sky is something else...

[@xxxxneoxxxx]

I love PAF style Humbuckers. However, I don't buy into the non potted bullshit. I mean, with any other kind of pickup, if it's microphonic, it sucks. But if it's a PAF, then it's microphonic? Brilliant!

[@matthewtucker1699]

I guess it's more about expectations, we EXPECT PAF's to be microphonic cause that's just how they were made so when one claims to be a clone and it is wax potted it disappoints, and vice versa, although there are plenty of people who want the PAF tone but wax potted so no microphonic stuff, which is cool too

[@hadin101]

My throbaks don't squeal... even through my BE100 no squeal

[@SixStrRzr]

VH potted his PAF, and ruined a few doing the waxing. That pup doesn't sound bad.

[@davidkieltyka9]

The key is the amount of microphonics. A little, just enough so the pickup interacts a bit both with the guitar and your amp, can sound great. Too much and you get the dreaded squeal.

[@TheChadPad]

The feedback can be annoying if you're playing very loudly and you're too close to the speakers, but otherwise, it provides a richer sound. Check out Jon Gundry's videos demonstrating the difference

[@rickvanderlingen8799]

Awesome guitar nerd video, Rhett! Love it!

[@thehound2161]

I like the way your eye's move... unlike 5w.... that get's scary.

[@monstrok]

When I got and installed my first set of Seymour Duncan "Skinnerburst" PAF re-creations into a Gibson reissue LP std, I finally understood the allure of these pickups. Thanks for the video, Rhett!