What is THE PRIMORDIAL RELIGION? The Supra-Confessional Faith of the Quran

We are continuing our deep dive into what the Quran REALLY says on the topic of religious exclusivism vs pluralism.
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[@nabsnabster3488]

This truth is an attack on the ego/identity (the ego being what keeps us from taqwa) and thus will be rejected by the majority. If people lose the distinct seperations between groups, us vs them, they'll feel like they're losing the solidity & safety of part or whole of their identity. The ego scares people like so, it is a false fear, but feels very threatening, instability invoking. Where as exclusivism feels safe, "I'm in the 'in group', soley favoured by God, yh baby!" "If you do good, you do it for yourselves and if you do evil you do it against yourselves." Quran: 17:7

[@Cassim125]

And that's the whole point of mystical experiences to feel oneness and unity and no ego. It's no wonder most mystics from all faiths tend to be inclusivist and see people as people not by religious identity.

[@GeloThaTopBoy]

You made Islam make so much sense to me. Alhamdulilah

[@hyrunnisa997]

great analysis. thank you!

[@openyourmind7865]

Amazing video so well explained

[@adnankhursheed]

Sir, please make a video on the Quranic term 'kafir'. This is one of the most misused concepts by Muslims.

[@MohamedShou]

It’s literally means to hide something. In Classical Arabic farmers where called kafirs because they hide the seed in the Earth. So Kafirs in the Quran are used because they know the truth but they hide it 🤷🏾‍♂️.

[@jaavaidhashim5845]

Kafir is a South Africa racist term

[@youmosque8350]

This is one of the most important informative lectures by any English-spoken Muslim Scholar; Dr. Heshmi is a treasure and should be the face of Islam in this country.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Thank you for your very kind words.

[@SpondonIAftab]

This is such an incredibly important video. Thank you so much Dr. Hashmi

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Glad it was helpful! Thank you!

[@centric145]

Amazing

[@PrayersandCrayons]

Thank you for another great video!

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Thanks for watching!

[@inhumanhyena]

Great video. I have a question though, and maybe this will come up in the future. About 3:78 - I noticed the word kitāb is being used, and if I remember correctly from your Ismaili reference, kitāb is not a literal "book", and therefore, wouldn't it be possible the verse is in regard to the message of the Scripture itself, as a kind of source, rather than a reference to a literal book present amongst the "people of the book"? Though I think in the context, what's being referred to, following the previous few verses, i clearly an example of some Jews being exclusivity in their practice of the Torah (as it was written), where it was not stipulated in the Torah to be so. I think this is a better evidence that it relates to something written, if kitāb is something other than a specific literal book. Or is it just any books claimed to come from God? Also, there are potential disagreements between the "scriptural avatars", in which case, I suppose the failure is in our ability understand the original implications via the corruption of "oral law"? I've been thinking about this a lot while revisiting the Torah which is full of laws, though there are reduced Torahs and even different versions. I've considered also that some of the Jews of Arabia may have had a specific Torah as their kin in the Horn of Africa apparently did. What do you think?

[@mohamadnymeri3048]

Salam Dr. Hashmi. Great presentation! One side note: Do you distinguish between al muminun and alladhina amanu? When I read the Quran, it seems like alladhina amanu refers to people who follow/listen/accept the prophet generally (and exclude Christians and jews), and al muminun are those who truly have faith in God and the Last Day wholeheartedly (maybe including Christians and jews). Would love to hear your take on this question. Keep up the good work!

[@BenM61]

المؤمنون الذين آمنوا The terms in the Quran Almuminun and Alladhina Amanu refer only to the followers of the prophet Muhammad. The term is applied exclusively to them only.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

​@@BenM61 i agree with Ben. However, I would also add that whereas the Believers are primarily the Prophet's direct followers and followers of Quranic law, nonetheless the Quran does say that some of the People of the Book "believe" (lower case b here), just like the Quran says that the Kāfirs are the Arabian pagans but that some People of the Book also disbelieve (kafara).

[@camelkingofthemediteranean949]

Is it possible to write you an e-mail for support about certain topics?

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

If you drop your email here, I can shoot you an email. Or else you can tag me on twitter and I can add you so you can private message me. Thanks!

[@kyzersmansion2487]

Thank you Dr for the amazing work your doing and bringing everything into a coherent world view, is there anyway to connect with you on email, etc

[@rayhan551]

Salam brother how can we get in touch ? Email ?

[@timurselimovic6219]

Thank you so much. Would you consider doing a video on interfaith marriage among People of the Book?

[@MF_Omar]

Who were the Sabians? What do we know about them?

[@Johnny-mr8pu]

This great why don't Muslims present this perspective when doing dawah. I would like to communicate a hypothesis how the three Abrahamic religions are one structural unit

[@IMHS21]

Thanks for your work. Most of it was crystal clear, at times however, I found your point of view a little bit vague. So, for example: In howfar do jews and christians need to affirm Mohammed pbuh as a prophet? You said that they have to in some way? And how does is not make any sense that Abraham pbuh was not also a Muslim, because, obviously the last prophet wasnt there yet but can you not say that all the prophets where also preaching Islam and so was abraham. And by the way, almost all christians today, except for the unitarians have a believe that the Quran strongly condemns (trinity, tri-theism etc.). So how is that to be weighed up against surah 5:69?

[@BenM61]

Abraham was a muslim, with small m, and not a Muslim, with capital M.

[@obaidulhaque7687]

So that was issac … not ishmael with Ibrahim

[@newi-nb8jt]

Primordial universalism of Quran is only universal acceptance of judeo Christian faith as co existed idea this means audience is limited to judeo-christan faith

[@jamesedison5651]

I emailed you this a while back now but received no response, so hoping you answer it here as it seems to be problematic for your claims 1. Surah 98 this chapter begins by referring to the people of scripture as kafirun. why? if the "min" is used to mean only some of them, and not all, then how can that explanation apply to the mushrikoon, as the "min" also applies to them in this ayah, hence it is in the genitive case due to the affect of this preposition: thus it is mushrikeen and not mushrikoon in this ayah. And unless you are saying that some mushriks can be muslim and others kafir, then it makes little sense to claim this to explain this ayah here for the ahl al kitab. It makes more sense that kafir is the broad category containing many subcategories, and the subcategories here are the polytheists and people of previous scriptures. It grammatically would be like saying, "of the global population, it is the french and the english that are most haughty". this would mean every french and english person in comparison to others, not some amongst them. so given all this how then would you explain this surah calling the people of scripture kafir? 2. Jesus pbuh the christians at the time of the Prophet pbuh and today ascribe divinity to christ, as co-equal and co-eternal with God the father. do you claim that the Quran is calling these people muslim, and that they have salvation? If tauhid is the most fundamental element in the Quran, or as Fazlur Rahman called it, the master truth, then how can this contradictory belief to Tauhid (i.e. the trinity) be reconciled with it?

[@JoBlogz]

Excellent questions 😮 He may be avoiding due to having no adequate or convincing responses for them? In any case Javad im also interested in your response to this...

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

Thanks for the questions, which are very good. I don't debate in emails and I try not to do so in KZbin comments either. It's just low yield use of my time. However, I have already considered both questions of yours and had prepped responses for if Shadee Elmasry raised these in the debate. In any case, I will answer them in future videos in this same video series, so stay tuned.

[@BenM61]

This is the beginning of Surah 98: 98:1 The deniers of truth from among the People of the Book and the polytheists would not desist from disbelief until they received clear evidenc 98:2 a messenger from God, reciting to them pure scriptures 98:3 containing upright precepts. 98:1 لَمۡ یَكُنِ ٱلَّذِینَ كَفَرُوا۟ مِنۡ أَهۡلِ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبِ وَٱلۡمُشۡرِكِینَ مُنفَكِّینَ حَتَّىٰ تَأۡتِیَهُمُ ٱلۡبَیِّنَةُ ۝١ 98:2 رَسُولࣱ مِّنَ ٱللَّهِ یَتۡلُوا۟ صُحُفࣰا مُّطَهَّرَةࣰ ۝٢ 98:3 فِیهَا كُتُبࣱ قَیِّمَةࣱ ۝٣ 98:4 وَمَا تَفَرَّقَ ٱلَّذِینَ أُوتُوا۟ ٱلۡكِتَـٰبَ إِلَّا مِنۢ بَعۡدِ مَا جَاۤءَتۡهُمُ ٱلۡبَیِّنَةُ ۝٤ 98:5 وَمَاۤ أُمِرُوۤا۟ إِلَّا لِیَعۡبُدُوا۟ ٱللَّهَ مُخۡلِصِینَ لَهُ ٱلدِّینَ حُنَفَاۤءَ وَیُقِیمُوا۟ ٱلصَّلَوٰةَ وَیُؤۡتُوا۟ ٱلزَّكَوٰةَۚ وَذَ ٰلِكَ دِینُ ٱلۡقَیِّمَةِ ۝٥ Most of the people of the book especially the Jews kafaru or denied the prophethood of Muhammad. That makes them kuffar with respect to the message of the prophet muhammad in the same way that I am a kafir with respect to the trinitarian Christianity. Also, not every kafir is a Mushrik but every Mushrik is a kafir. I don’t believe in trinitarian Christianity which makes me a kafir not a mushrik. I don’t see where the issue is. Most of the Mushrikun or polytheists of Mecca did not recognize the prophethood of Muhammad. They thought he was a magician of some sort and crazy among other things. That makes those people kuffar or kafirun of the message of the prophet Muhammad. Some of those Mushrikun of Mecca and others accepted Muhammad as a prophet of God. They were Mushrikun and became muslims. Where is the problem here?

[@jamesedison5651]

​@@DrJavadTHashmi hope you had a nice eid and may Allah accept our fasts. I am still awaiting an adequate response to the aforementioned and just to clarify, i am not a follower or supporter of Shadi al Masry, or anyone else for that matter, except of the truth and goodness iA In fact, I support and respect a lot of what you say and do, but on this issue, for reasons both aforementioned as well as to be explained more fully below, i believe that you have fallen very very far from the mark indeed. I look forward to assessing your rebuttal as otherwise these are extremely serious blunders to just pretend not to notice naively hoping everyone else will overlook them too - it will make you look amateurish in your scholarship and discredit anything else that you have to say, which is unfortunate as you often make a lot of sense alhamdulillah so, just to elaborate a little to the first point from my original message surah 98 clearly shows that the people of the book differ about the Messenger Muhammad pbuh those who deny him (rasulun min Allah) despite his clearly (bayyinah) Divine message (as the surah frames it) of 1. devoted Monotheism and 2. Zakat (assisting the societally less privileged) are the kafirs, whilst those who embrace it are successful being upon the right religion: deen al qayyimah (as opposed to 'Iwaja, the wrong way) this surah clearly differentiates between the kafirs and the non-kafirs amongst the ahl al kitab (those communities who possess previous Prophetic guidance) therefore, some among them are definitely kafir whilst others are not - and the surah explains which are which the thing that makes some of the ahl al kitab the inmates of hell, doomed, and amongst the worst of creatures, according to this surah, is their denial of Prophet Muhammad's pbuh authentic messengership and teachings whilst those that accept his clearly (bayyinah) Divine messengership and teachings are as the surah puts it on the right path, the best of creatures, and salvated with God pleased with them and vice versa I often support your thoughts and work, and want to continue doing so but if you fail to either correct this thesis or incontrovertibly defend it, both myself and many others that are sincere will lose both respect of and trust in you, and definitely any support you had hitherto managed to garner

[@johnthomas8532]

@@DrJavadTHashmi have you seen this thread? after creating more confusion than clarity you're morally obliged to clear up these valid issues raised

[@sondrameyer2816]

Please note: The word that should be utilized is "rite" and not "right". This makes a difference in the understanding. ALLAH has given each community a shir'a. What were they? The only ones I know of are; The Noahide Laws, The Ten Commandments, some how winnowed down by groups other than the community they were sent to, Originally 613, The Qu'ran. These are the ONLY ones given by the Creator. Therefore the communities authorized to compete in good deeds as people who submit. This of course is a opinion, and Allah knows best.

[@mohdhazimzainuddin1898]

Are Hinduism, Buddhism, and other eastern religions consider as ' Islam '?

[@muhammadbilalmirajdin3764]

as long as they are not committing the SHIRK and are doing GOOD deeds they are 'mUSLIMS" as well.

[@jammooly8917]

While this argument is well-argued, what about the fact that every Christian group, mainstream or not, believe that Jesus is the son of god, which is condemned in the Quran. Shouldn’t those who are not followers of Islam but are People of the Book that are from the good group not commit such despised acts? If so, then there is no Christian group that does that, so who would be the good group, theologically speaking, from the Christians?

[@ze5771]

1.The covenant of the Prophets. “And [recall], when Allah took the covenant of the prophets [saying], ‘Whatever I give you of the Scripture and wisdom and then there comes to you a messenger confirming what is with you, you [must] believe in him and support him.” (3:81-82) Every Prophet from Adam to Jesus knew of a ‘messenger’ that would come and confirm what was with them. The covenant they took with God stipulated that they HAD to believe in this messenger and support him. This messenger is obviously Muhammad. “O you who were given the Scripture, believe in what We have sent down [to Muhammad], confirming that which is with you, before We obliterate faces and turn them toward their backs or curse them as We cursed the sabbath-breakers. And ever is the decree of Allah accomplished.” (4:47) Taking into account the covenant of the Prophets, the crux of this Primordial Faith seems to be monotheism and belief in Muhammad. Sounds similar to the Islamic Declaration of Faith “La ilaha illallah Muhammad rasool Allah”. - There is no God but God (monotheism) Muhammad is His messenger (belief in the messenger). 2. Institutionalised Islam “Today, I have perfected your religion for you, and have completed My blessing upon you, and chosen Islam as Dīn (religion and a way of life) for you.” (5:3) If this is the basic Universal primordial faith being mentioned in this verse as you claim, then how did God perfect it? As it was already perfect? This is instead reference to Institutional Islam. The revival of the Primordial Faith wrapped in Shari’a (Gods Law). In the New Testament, the central theme of Jesus’ teachings are the coming of “The Kingdom Of God”. Could this be the Institutionalised Primordial Faith(Islam) that came with Muhammad? I think so. In other words, your pluralist perspective is wrong. Respectfully. Islam, and ONLY Islam is the truth.

[@shahrahman4368]

What - Misinterpreted.

[@gavinjames1145]

If you could only step out of the confines of the Islamic paradigm and take a look at actual history, based on archaeological and anthropological findings, you would very quickly realise that there is no single primordial religion; and whatever 'religion' there was in the primordial past was certainly not Abrahamic, or 'Muslim' or even monotheistic.

[@ancienthamatendiscipline3533]

There's literally nothing primordial about the concept of religion. A brief linguistic etymological analysis of the word religion would prove this fact.

[@jaavaidhashim5845]

IN QURANIC SCRIPTURE OF KALAM ALLAH KITABULLAH AND SUNNATULLAH OF MILLAT IBRAHIM'S HANIFS RELIGION WORSHIP OF AL RAHMAN IN QURANIC VERSES AND FOLLOW HANIFIYYAH AS HANIFAN MUSLIMAN DEN AL FITRA WITHOUT HADITHS LITERATURE OF traditional Islam

[@jj-yi1ne]

would you not say you guys are still bigoted towards polytheists? and do you believe in preaching against polytheism?

[@shukriyusof2104]

Over 2 billion people are confused and you are among them. That is the problem when you use outside sources to understand the Quran. How convinced are you that the Arabic word ( هَادُوا ) in verse 2:62 is "the Jews?" Not consider this verse: 9:30 The Jews ( الْيَهُودُ ) say, “Ezra is the son of Allah,” while the Christians say, “The Messiah is the son of Allah.” Such are their baseless assertions, only parroting the words of earlier disbelievers. May Allah condemn them! How can they be deluded ˹from the truth˺? Do you think the ( هَادُوا ) and the ( الْيَهُودُ ) are the same? Are the guided the same as the Jews? The Children of Israel was given the guidance but are they the Jews? When Moses came down carrying the tablets, were there Jews present? 20:94 Aaron pleaded, “O son of my mother! Do not seize me by my beard or ˹the hair of˺ my head. I really feared that you would say, ‘You have caused division among the Children of Israel, and did not observe my word.’” 20:95 Moses then asked, “What did you think you were doing, O Sâmiri?” Do you think the Jews were present during that time with Moses? Please forget what you think you know and go study the Quran. salam.

[@billkagwe265]

that is a load of bull crap...moses made up those laws to control the people...religion is all fiction...the best selling fairy tale of all time...the sooner you believe that the better you are

[@nabsnabster3488]

I'd like to hear your perspective. You should make some videos instead of these vague schizophrenic like comments.

[@shukriyusof2104]

@@nabsnabster3488 So... *who* is actually making _"vague schizophrenic comments?"_ You or me? 😉 Salam.

[@TheBobbysPerspective]

Very good analysis.

[@jamesedison5651]

It is actually very poor analysis Bobby imo I emailed him awhile ago but he didnt respond, so i messaged him here and he said he didnt want to respond to my email but he has answers and will respond later, so i am awaiting this response still my email questioned the following 1. Surah 98 this chapter begins by referring to the people of scripture as kafirun. why? if the "min" is used to mean only some of them, and not all, then how can that explanation apply to the mushrikoon, as the "min" also applies to them in this ayah, hence it is in the genitive case due to the affect of this preposition: thus it is mushrikeen and not mushrikoon in this ayah. And unless you are saying that some mushriks can be muslim and others kafir, then it makes little sense to claim this to explain this ayah here for the ahl al kitab. It makes more sense that kafir is the broad category containing many subcategories, and the subcategories here are the polytheists and people of previous scriptures. It grammatically would be like saying, "of the global population, it is the french and the english that are most haughty". this would mean every french and english person in comparison to others, not some amongst them. so given all this how then would you explain this surah calling the people of scripture kafir? 2. Jesus pbuh the christians at the time of the Prophet pbuh and today ascribe divinity to christ, as co-equal and co-eternal with God the father. do you claim that the Quran is calling these people muslim, and that they have salvation? If tauhid is the most fundamental element in the Quran, or as Fazlur Rahman called it, the master truth, then how can this contradictory belief to Tauhid (i.e. the trinity) be reconciled with it?

[@cruzguerrero7992]

@@jamesedison5651 Not all Christians are trinitarian., Also, not all Christians have had same understanding of the trinity. The trinity is a dangerous concept because the literal interpretation is shirk. However, a non literal interpretation is like a misunderstanding of the concept that the Sufis later called "The unity of being". This would make sense since the teachings of Isa pbuh according to the 4 canonical gospels and many of the non-canonical gospels are basically Sufism. "The Kingdom of God is within you" is the same as "Whoever knows himself knows his Lord".

[@jamesedison5651]

@@cruzguerrero7992 then javad would have to say those trinitarians that consider Jesus co-equal and co-eternal with God, or Divine, eternal, are kuffar which is the vast majority and by your rationalisation the other christians "like sufis" would have to admit that Muhammad and Moses and Abraham and Hajar and me and you also have God residing within them too the exact same way God did in the other dependent and created creature Jesus which virtually none would!

[@cruzguerrero7992]

@@jamesedison5651 They do though. That's what they mean when they say they are the "Children of God" or that they have the "Holy Spirit".

[@cruzguerrero7992]

@@jamesedison5651 I understand that. What I'm getting at is that not all Christian groups have had the same understanding of the trinity. Even if the majority of Christians consider these groups heretical we cannot ignore that they exist/existed. Even Muslims do not all share the same understanding of tawheed.

[@youmosque8350]

I would like to contact you, any suggestions on how?

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

I emailed you, kind sir, and also subscribed to your channel.

[@youmosque8350]

@@DrJavadTHashmi Thank you for subscribing to my modest channel in compression with yours and the content you tackle; I am glad I stumbled into your channel. Definitely will watch and do my best to spread the word.

[@BenM61]

Dr Quadhi was definitely wrong.

[@ancienthamatendiscipline3533]

What I would love to know from your scholarship of what you romanise/transliterate as Quran, is the linguistic etymological evidence that the word دين translates as religion. الإسلام as submission. الله as the Germanic term God. اليهود as Jew. النصارى as Christian. حنيف as primordial. I won't include the romanised term Muslim because this term doesn't exist in The Written Scripture(القرءآن).. It's easy to regurgitate tradition and translations of other's, however this isn't scholarly at all, infact it's akin to being a librarian. Hopefully you have some linguistic evidence to validate the claims of your translations.

[@martinchristow]

A problem in your claim: 39:12 I have been commanded to be the first of the muslims / submitters In what sense would you say the term "awwal ul muslimeen" is used here? It seems to me it is neither the first, nor the second, for the most obvious meaning would simply be "the first of the Muslims".

[@anashashmi]

You were questionably right in the beginning but then you took a turn by calling the prophets before as muslim and saying that this is not exclusive to Islam. A Muslim is not a follower of Muhammad ﷺ, like the Christians are followers of Christ or the Jews are followers of Judah. A Muslim is a follower of Islam. It is not the religion of Muhammad ﷺ, rather it is the religion of Abraham, as revealed to us in the Quran through the Prophet ﷺ. Islam begins from the time of Abraham. He was the first Muslim. So what does that make the Jews and Christians? Nations of Jacob and the followers of Jesus. They have their own set of laws that was revealed to them to follow. Every religion was not made for everyone. Judaism is for the Jews. Christianity is for the followers of Jesus. ?Only? Islam alone is for everyone by design. And so the Prophet ﷺ came to convey the religion of Abraham and Allah finished and perfected it with the Prophet ﷺ and completed his favor to mankind. Anyone who now chooses a religion other than Islam, it will not be accepted from him. Din illahi are the many religions Allah revealed to the many nations. And they all had the same message. But it is not "Islam". Islam is the religion of the Prophets where salah, fasting, and pilgrimage are part of it. The Prophets since Abraham all made Pilgrimage to Mecca. And the Muslims today who follow Islam are also compelled to make pilgrimage to Mecca along with fasting, and salah, and zakat. I cannot say this enough, the Muslims of today are the direct practicing line of the Prophets. And they are closer to the Prophets than any other nation and religions that have come before them.

[@DrJavadTHashmi]

As Nicolai Sinai writes in his forthcoming book: "Even for Medinan passages like Q 3:85 ('Whosoever desires a religion other than al-islām, it will not be accepted of him, and he will be one of the losers in the hereafter"), it is on balance preferable to opt for a non-reified understanding of al-islām... This is so because two other Medinan verses, Q 2:62 and 5:69, clearly allow for the eschatological salvation of adherents of other religions, like Judaism and Christianity, if they 'believe in God and the final day and do righteous deeds'... Hence, if one were to take a statement like Q 3:85 to mean that no one outside of the Qura'nic community (--> ummah) can hope for salvation, one would end up generating a significant doctrinal tension not only within the Qur'an, but within the Medinan surahs in particular."

[@sondrameyer2816]

So you would not include Adam AS and Noah AS? Are you sure?

[@BenM61]

There are many verses in the Quran which refute the claim that only Muslims receive the bounties of God in the hereafter but somehow a lot of Muslims ignore them or don’t take them seriously with no tadabbur. How can anyone not believe in this: 2:111 They declare, None shall ever enter Heaven unless he be a Jew or a Christian. This is their own wishful thinking. [Prophet], say, Produce your evidence if you are telling the truth 2:112 Indeed, *those who submit themselves to God and act righteously shall be rewarded by their Lord: they shall have no fear, nor shall they grieve* It seems to me that anyone who believes in the unity of God and does good deeds has nothing to fear without regard to religion ethnicity or race. That’s universalism my friend. Are we supposed to believe God himself doesn’t know what he is talking about? Are we supposed to believe those supposed scholars and ignore the Quran? No way. Good luck with that.

[@anashashmi]

@@BenM61 There are lots of verses that refer to the Jews and Christians who deny truth. And for them is a loss.

[@anashashmi]

@@sondrameyer2816 I am not sure what you are referring to. Under Judaic interpretation, all Jews are to follow the Rabbinical laws. And everyone else are to follow the 7 commandments of Noah AS. The 7th law being to setup a court for violation of the first 6. And there are no descendents of Adam left that are not the descendents of Noah.