What is the Strongest Case for Pro Life? Interview with Stephanie Gray Connors

[@theologymatters5127]

Just finished the whole episode. I'm so touched by this episode and will now be reading her book. She's bang on when how to treat the women who've had abortions. God bless her and her work. Already ordering her book.

[@johnsanders7849]

On the miscarriage argument, you also can look at life 100 years ago. Less than 50 percent of children survived to adulthood. That didn't mean that children were not children.

[@bassterify]

Thank you Jesus for Stephanie and people like her who stand for truth!

[@Cristina_Pavel]

Great and difficult questions, but also intelligent answers. Sean's habit of making sure we got the idea is always helpful 🙂 thank you!

[@elijahhouchens7166]

Stephanie! Thank you for walking in obedience to God and taking on this task in today’s culture. Your words are gracious and thoughtful and you present logical arguments that should help people think through what abortion is and the impacts it can have. I will pray that your work continues to reach people who may be struggling with this issue and that it ultimately points them to the cross. Thank you for honoring God as a member of the body of Jesus Christ! It is encouraging to see the work God is doing through your ministry. God bless you and praise God for his goodness!

[@juliemorgan-bullock6149]

This conversation has been so interesting and informative.

[@theologymatters5127]

I'm already bawling. Thanks Sean, for starting out this way.

[@hwd7]

I highly recommend Scott Klusendorf's book, The Case for Life, it taught me everthing I know on how to defend the Pro-life position. Also checkout his Biola Ethics at the Edge of Life lectures with John Ray.

[@renier4415]

Thank you for your amazing work Sean. Thank you for talking about the tough stuff.

[@AG-jf6wg]

Thanks for your programs, Sean. Very thoughful, relevant, and helpful.

[@maxsant123]

Brilliant 👏👏👏, thanks for sharing, and thanks Stephanie you are doing an amazing jog, God bless you.

[@WhidbeyMP]

"I don't want abortion to be legal or illegal. I want abortion to be unthinkable..." The best solution is a change of heart in our society

[@SeanMcDowell]

We need revival!

[@WhidbeyMP]

@@SeanMcDowell amen to that ❤️

[@tx6723]

More.lile manipulation

[@ervinmatela1727]

Thanks for this topic for sure I can use this for my Ethics Class . God bless

[@lindanagle7504]

Really enjoyed this interview - thank you! I think the decision whether to have an abortion is a heart rendering one for most women in that situation. My struggle is with the lack of compassion and empathy some have towards women who contemplate abortion and demand that women who choose abortion must be persecuted. Shouldn’t that be between them and God?

[@PutDownTheBunny]

In the age of social media and the discussion of contemporary issues of the day, namely abortion, I believe for every YT or podcast that would "demand that women who choose abortion be persecuted" which I personally have never seen, there must be 5000 that offer insight, compassion, love, accurate info and forgiveness.

[@rep3e4]

Awesome stuff, literally life and death important stuff

[@ObiWonGinobili]

Stephanie actually mis-categorizes the acorn in the acorn-zygote analogy, because an acorn is not germinated or 'fertilized yet'. Only after an acorn has fallen to fertile soil and gets water, only then has it started to germinate and grow. So in the acorn and oak tree analogy, an acorn would be equivalent to a human egg or a sperm, which are only constituents to human life, but not human life yet, just like an acorn is not a tree yet, only a constituent to tree life.

[@theo-dawg8519]

Her logic is infallible. Wow!

[@trentjacobs3957]

A lot of us know n our hearts and minds that killing innocents is wrong, we might not b able to very specifically and fully articulate exactly why but, that doesn't mean that homicide is justified just because. The principles she's explaining here, r principles regardless of who can voice them or not. It's certainly good to b able to articulate, for ourselves and more importantly, to teach others. It's sad we have to explain why it's wrong to kill the most precious and innocent among us but, it's the world we live n and need to address our shortcomings. Especially when those shortcomings result n so much death.

[@theologymatters5127]

Oh man! First 5 min and I love her already!!!

[@ToothBrush531]

I’m surprised they didn’t acknowledge the violinist argument when talking about rape. That argument would have canceled out Stephanie’s response and would have forced her to come up with a different response.

[@williamstdog9]

I love this woman so much … ♥️ Her brilliant mind, and loving spirit. I only wish she would use her brilliant logical mind to look at, dissect, and address the arguments of James White in his many MANY phenomenal debates with the Catholics he has debated. 😢 I will pray that one day she & Lila Rose reject Rome and come into faith in Christ ALONE 🙏

[@user-cu3xn4xj3i]

The baby in the womb is a blob of insignificant inconvenient cells when they don't want the baby.... The baby in the womb is a precious baby when they want the baby.

[@matthewtenney2898]

The foundational argument is that human life is sacred and has worth. At the time of Roe vs Wade, it was the value of the unborn child. Today it's the value of the elderly. We're losing our Judeo-Christian outlook which values life just because God made us equal. Today, most of society will value your life only if they can gain something or have empathy.

[@ghostgoodall7484]

She is wrong on the oak tree question, the acorn isn't analogous to the fetus until the seed sprouts. So the unborn are more similar to saplings, not seeds.

[@lindawarner7496]

Great analogies

[@ddonovan2965]

Exactly Stephanie, I pray that abortion would be eradicated from the face of the earth and every heart and mind of every person and that the spirit that inspired it would be banished to the place it came from. Then whether there was a law or not would be moot. Jesus, grant us the grace to desire it. May His mother intercede with God the Father for this grace to become reality that He may be glorified and we all may be saved. 🙏

[@den8863]

You couldn’t cut an earthworm, you would just sever the digestive tract further down. It has a brain and neural system, 5 hearts, stomach, gizzard, renal organs similar to us in SOME respects.

[@ToothBrush531]

The violinist argument actually made me change my mind to view abortion in the case of rape as justified. I watched a video of Stephanie defending this and trying to prove that the violinist argument does not compare to rape and to my surprise I was actually not convinced by her reasoning as I found her argument as not containing enough logic but rather personal beliefs

[@jumpergodesss6882]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/iHizppeClKyEabs Was the video that I found did the most logical thing when it came to this argument

[@alantng22]

Bro what are you talking about? There's nothing personal in her analysis of the violinist argument. There's a fundamental difference between being hooked up to a stranger and a pregnant child growing in her mother. There's an obligation of parents to take care of their offspring that is not required of strangers. There's plenty of homeless people in my city who could be starving and freezing outside, but I'm not legally obligated to feed and clothe them. However, if I have a 2 year old son who is hungry and freezing and I deliberately refuse to give him food and shelter, I can criminally prosecuted for neglect. The point being, the relationship between the two parties makes all the difference. I'm not obliged to share my kidney for a stranger I have no relationship with, but I do have a moral and legal obligation to take care of my children. This also applies to pregnant women. They gave an obligation to provide food & shelter to their child because by virtue of their relationship.

[@alantng22]

*They have an obligation to provide food and shelter to their child developing in utero because of their relationship

[@FaithfulMel]

27:45, 29:26

[@theo-dawg8519]

Wow, great point! Rapists don't get the death penalty, yet the developing human can get the death penalty.

[@ObiWonGinobili]

Seeds and nuts can be germinated or sprouted, however they lay innate in their unfertilized form, only after seeds and nuts are exposed to water can they begin to grow. So it is with human sperm and human eggs, they only can create life once they successfully come together and the sperm fertilizes the egg. This is basically what water does to a nut or a seed, because with inside of a nut or a seed are proteins, fats, carbohydrates, vitamins and minerals, it has many of the constituents for life, but still lacks an environment (water and soil) which can be analogous to a mother's womb for it to grow! The beauty of life is written in creation, encoded in the things God created. Romans 1:20 (ESV): "For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse."

[@user-cu3xn4xj3i]

AMEN!!!

[@dylanrunner2001]

Stephanie kinda looks like Nina from Sprout.

[@dennisyee9024]

Pain

[@dennisyee9024]

Ll pop pop pop

[@lisashaw8]

❤️❤️

[@MzJusticeThaDreamer]

not everyone is a christian so therefore why preach your beliefs to everyone?

[@SeanMcDowell]

Because, in this case, human life is at stake.

[@MzJusticeThaDreamer]

@@SeanMcDowell you have no rights to speak how a woman chooses to excersise her bodily autonomy. mabey we should start where life begins and start taking autonomy from men. lets start by giving vasectomies to men who dont want to be fathers.

[@MzJusticeThaDreamer]

@@SeanMcDowell and one more thing what gives you the right to preach YOUR beliefs on me? I am not christian and i never will be. why are you belief more important than mine? clue: they arent!

[@PatientPerspective]

@@SeanMcDowell There are prolife,like myself, who arent religious. The abortion issue not a solely religious but of genuine moral topic that people have for or against regardless their faith and lack thereof. If coming from a political perspective, and to drive your point to All prochoice,it needs to be objective. If you are speaking from your church,I can see it, but if not its totally excluding hundreds of people who DO feel the same way as you in intent without the christian god. Prolife isnt solely a religious thing. Its a common sense moral issue that can be addressed without religion involved. It would be nice to see it from that view because our US laws shouldnt be influenced Christian values. Prolife isnt a "Christian" value. I love listening to all prolife arguments but the religion is were it falls short. Objectivity wins better crowds.

[@PatientPerspective]

@@MzJusticeThaDreamer vesectomies dont involve killing a human being. Its not a good comparison. Saving lives has always come before bodily autonomy in US law. We dont say "I support a rapist decision to rape. Its her choice. Her bodily autonomy."

[@Theinternalrewrite]

There is the problem that going through pregnancy and child birth has many costs: physically, mentally, emotionally, socially, financially. These costs all afflict the mother for many years on whether they give the child up for adoption or not. In fact giving a child away can create it's own costs even though it may alleviate others. Often abortion is used to avoid these costs (although abortion itself has it own costs too but most often lesser costs). Indeed the mother may deem these costs to be too big to the point they will too greatly diminish her (and other's) quality of life, possibly to the point of suffering, also diminish the child's quality of life and possibly end the mother's life. Often there is a calculation of should both people live lives of hardship or should one life be given up to avoid the potential suffering of both. Abortion may often be selfish but if the addition of a child may push that family into poverty then having the child seems potentially cruel to the child (and others). I'm not saying this argument always holds true. There are many parents who would not regard their life as full of suffering even if there is a cost. But there are those who may find themselves resenting the cost even if not to a level considered suffering, which in turn can affect the parental relationship in a way that can affect the child's physical, mental, emotional, social, spiritual and financial wellbeing for the rest of their life. I believe abortion is wrong but my concern is more for the mother's wellbeing than the child's. It may be that the child cannot feel pain and, according to certain readings of scripture, will go to be with God. Nevertheless the mother will have to deal with the sinful act. Mothers should be cared for whether they have an abortion or not. Even Jesus made arrangements for his mother on the cross. Too often Christians will condemn abortion but have no part in increasing the avoidance of pregnancy or reducing the cost of it. Teaching about contraception is feared for the fact that it might increase pre-marital sex but, even if true, that would be far less damaging than the struggle of carrying out an unwanted pregnancy. Also if expectant and new mothers received free healthcare, counselling, community groups (both involving the child and not) and if the US permanently enact the "Child Tax Credit" this would lessen and manage all those costs. Sadly many conservative Christians have a very western view of the church that deals with personal responsibility and not enough with community care - republicanism (about what people want) rather than the kingdom of God (about how God treats all people). Becoming a parent will always mean personal sacrifice but if we invest in reducing that sacrifice or offset it in other ways we may see a drop in the frequency of abortions. Also we will see some families where children are brought up safer and happier due to a level of care which society has supported. There is no point creating a law if people feel they are being punished if they follow it. When a child is seen as more of a burden than a blessing we need to address that issue before we demand people carry it.

[@trentjacobs3957]

People aren't demanding that others do anything besides what we expect of everyone....don't kill. Parenthood is a huge responsibility, it can b very difficult n many ways, none of which justify intentionally killing innocents. Aside from rape, no one is forced to have sex or get pregnant or have a baby or raise a baby. N the same way that parents aren't forced to keep their 10yr old if they want to give it up for adoption. But we do demand they don't kill them and we levy consequences if they do kill them. This is a societal issue and it needs to change but, that doesn't justify homicide just because society is rotten or parenthood is difficult or just because we want to. Killing is justified n the face of imminent and unavoidable danger of death or grave bodily harm, everything else is an excuse, an excuse to kill others. So it is societal and raising kids is hard but, that doesn't mean we shouldn't evenly applying our morals and the laws based on those morals. Either life is inherently valuable, or we as individuals get to pick and choose who's life is valuable and who we get to kill. We don't get to choose who to kill simply because things r difficult. Lots of people have dehumanized others throughout history, with the purpose of taking their life, and they were wrong. Abortion supporters r doing the exact same thing. They're essentially saying that those r individual innocent lives but I get to choose to kill them.

[@apracity7672]

My take on abortion is this. People who fornicate (sin) get pregnant sometimes and then they sometimes get abortions. If they had never sinned in the first place, they wouldnt even consider abortion.

[@theologymatters5127]

And your point is what exactly? How does anything you just said contribute to the conversation or solution?

[@apracity7672]

@@theologymatters5127 the solution to abortions is to no get pregnant in the first place

[@theologymatters5127]

@@apracity7672 Right. So, that really solves the problem for those who are already pregnant. Way to contribute!

[@apracity7672]

@@theologymatters5127 prevention, not damage control

[@joebriggs5781]

My biggest issue with her is her lack of compassion for women who have been impregnated by rape. I understand that’s a low percentage of people but they are still people. They didn’t ask to be raped or to be pregnant. So now that woman who’s been raped has to live with that and go through the 9 month burden of pregnancy as well? Without any kind of choice? That’s just so wrong.

[@christinazgirlonfire2285]

You are right Joe; Stephanie is speaking factually. I have a question if there is a horrible injustice done, isn’t it equally unjust to kill an innocent person, pre-born or born?. Rape is a emotional subject. But so is killing the unborn child. I had a friend who was raped and got pregnant the doctor suggested she get an abortion. She asked the doctor “will getting abortion take away my rape?” He said “no”. She chose her daughter because, her child was not guilty. Yes it is hard but doing what is right is not always easy. I hope this helps.

[@joebriggs5781]

@@christinazgirlonfire2285 Of course it is a horrible injustice that the unborn child doesn't get to live. But pregnancy is not what a rape victim chooses. That injustice is on the rapist, not the rape victim. I would never tell someone they SHOULD get an abortion, simply that it should be their choice under these circumstances. If the woman doesn't want to be or possibly has never wanted to be pregnant, we would now be forcing a woman who was raped to now also have to go through 9 months of pregnancy, the possible post-mortem depression or the sadness of then giving up a child they may not be able to care for, etc...and if they don't, what, we're going to send the rape victim to jail???

[@6.0hhh]

Sean you should get Jeff Durbin on to talk about this topic also. His ministry apologiastudios has been dealing with this for years and has witnessed to mothers outside PP. Please give this some thought!

[@theologymatters5127]

His methods are abhorrent.

[@6.0hhh]

@@theologymatters5127 That's ironic coming from someone with "theology matters" as their name. Not to mention that "his method" has lead to the saving of *thousands* of babies being saved from death. Tell me, how many babies has *your* method saved from the slaughter?

[@theologymatters5127]

@@6.0hhh Well, ya...I believe my "theology" and his "theology" clash on this topic. Period. Some of the things I've heard him say are great. Some are just garbage. I get to have that perspective.

[@6.0hhh]

@@theologymatters5127 I'm not saying that you don't get to have that perspective. But you criticized his method. I'm asking you how many babies God has saved *through* "his method" as opposed to "your method?"

[@theologymatters5127]

@@6.0hhh I don't know his stats actually. Do you? My stats, well...I simply care for women who've made some serious mistakes. I think it's a very silly way to argue though. His ways are above reproach because he is having an impact? No, I disagree.I don't like his methods because I don't like presuppositional apologetics. I can't stand how he says women aren't the victim. He has no way to justify such statements. I feel happy for those he helps and sorry for those he wounds. I love the woman Sean had on. She knows her stuff, AND is making an impact without hurting people.

[@rstevewarmorycom]

Jeeuhmong wrote me a nasty note and then the coward deleted it. I mute people who do that.

[@jdnlaw1974]

God not only condoned but commanded abortion in Numbers 5:11-31: 11 Then the Lord said to Moses, 12 “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: ‘If a man’s wife goes astray(A) and is unfaithful to him 13 so that another man has sexual relations with her,(B) and this is hidden from her husband and her impurity is undetected (since there is no witness against her and she has not been caught in the act), 14 and if feelings of jealousy(C) come over her husband and he suspects his wife and she is impure-or if he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure- 15 then he is to take his wife to the priest. He must also take an offering of a tenth of an ephah[a](D) of barley flour(E) on her behalf. He must not pour olive oil on it or put incense on it, because it is a grain offering for jealousy,(F) a reminder-offering(G) to draw attention to wrongdoing. 16 “‘The priest shall bring her and have her stand before the Lord. 17 Then he shall take some holy water in a clay jar and put some dust from the tabernacle floor into the water. 18 After the priest has had the woman stand before the Lord, he shall loosen her hair(H) and place in her hands the reminder-offering, the grain offering for jealousy,(I) while he himself holds the bitter water that brings a curse.(J) 19 Then the priest shall put the woman under oath and say to her, “If no other man has had sexual relations with you and you have not gone astray(K) and become impure while married to your husband, may this bitter water that brings a curse(L) not harm you. 20 But if you have gone astray(M) while married to your husband and you have made yourself impure by having sexual relations with a man other than your husband”- 21 here the priest is to put the woman under this curse(N)-“may the Lord cause you to become a curse[b] among your people when he makes your womb miscarry and your abdomen swell. 22 May this water(O) that brings a curse(P) enter your body so that your abdomen swells or your womb miscarries.” “‘Then the woman is to say, “Amen. So be it.(Q)” 23 “‘The priest is to write these curses on a scroll(R) and then wash them off into the bitter water. 24 He shall make the woman drink the bitter water that brings a curse, and this water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering will enter her. 25 The priest is to take from her hands the grain offering for jealousy, wave it before the Lord(S) and bring it to the altar. 26 The priest is then to take a handful of the grain offering as a memorial[c] offering(T) and burn it on the altar; after that, he is to have the woman drink the water. 27 If she has made herself impure and been unfaithful to her husband, this will be the result: When she is made to drink the water that brings a curse and causes bitter suffering, it will enter her, her abdomen will swell and her womb will miscarry, and she will become a curse.(U) 28 If, however, the woman has not made herself impure, but is clean, she will be cleared of guilt and will be able to have children. 29 “‘This, then, is the law of jealousy when a woman goes astray(V) and makes herself impure while married to her husband, 30 or when feelings of jealousy(W) come over a man because he suspects his wife. The priest is to have her stand before the Lord and is to apply this entire law to her. 31 The husband will be innocent of any wrongdoing, but the woman will bear the consequences(X) of her sin.’”

[@hwd7]

The bitter water is not an abortificent, it is merely a token of the oath and in no way is the cause of the effects of the oath. So, none of those verses support your abortion argument. Lastly, God is sovereign and has the right as our Creator to kill, wound, heal, give life. None of that means that we can arbitrarily do the same. Did you even listen to the entire podcast?

[@jdnlaw1974]

@@hwd7 Did you even read the scripture I posted above??? Jesus.

[@hwd7]

Blasphemer,@@jdnlaw1974 Why do you think that those scriptures support abortion?

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

I saw you post this in another one of Sean's videos. So again: in the original Hebrew texts, the Hebrew term for miscarriage is not used in Num. 5:11-31. The Hebrew verb for miscarry or lose by abortion or be bereaved of the fruit of the womb is "shakal." It is used nearby in Exodus 23:26, "None shall miscarry _(meshakelah)_ or be barren in your land." But this word is NOT used in Numbers 5. There is no overt suggestion that a miscarriage or even an abortion occurs after the ingestion of the bitter water. All it says is that the woman will be free of guilt and be able to have children, if she is innocent of adultery. If she isn't, she'll be cursed with barrenness. A curse to be barren if found guilty is the only thing that's certain from these verses. Also, even if it did talk about a killing, the verses would only prove that God has the right to take the life of a unborn child conceived in adultery. It would not justify legal abortion performed by a human being for any reason at any stage of pregnancy. And the Bible already makes it clear that God has authority to give and take life as He chooses to.

[@hwd7]

@@IWasOnceAFetus God bless you brother for your articulate, concise response. 💯% .

[@alexp8924]

If you believe in your right to use necessary force to defend yourself from great bodily harm you can not be against abortion. That would be hypocritical and discriminative.

[@theo-dawg8519]

From who? Your own offspring!?!?

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

Tell me: can you intentionally kill another human by means of suction, chemicals or dismemberment for unintended bodily harm?

[@alexp8924]

@@IWasOnceAFetus you can use necessary force to stop the harm, yes. In case of great bodily harm you can use deadly force if there is no other way to stop the harm.

[@IWasOnceAFetus]

@@alexp8924 what is "great" bodily harm? The unborn child suffers 100% of the harm. The woman only suffers some of the harm. Medical emergencies related to pregnancy aren't even the the vast majority of reasons for abortions. Also, you didn't get my point. Even in courts (or in any other situation), if someone causes you harm unintentionally, they don't sentence that person to death by lethal force. The unborn is the innocent party here. Your justification wouldn't be taken seriously in any other situation.

[@alexp8924]

@@IWasOnceAFetus thats false. State of the person who is causing you harm is irrelevant. You can defend yourself versus a sleepwalking person who is sleeping. And every pregnancy = temporal disability = serious bodily harm. Sorry, I wont be debating a fairly clueless person like yourself in youtube comments. Best of luck.