What is Wrong With Modern Education?

[@donaldtimpson4320]

The most obvious problem with Modern Education is the removal of Logic as a standard course. Logic was one of the seven liberal arts, and now 99% of kids think "isn't that part of Geometry?". If I ask my kids to interpret "only the brave are free", the majority will interpret the implication backwards. When kids aren't taught to think carefully and rigorously, teachers are free to fill them full of any "facts" they want.

[@cwstreeper]

As a professional educator I can agree with much of what you are saying and could expound a great deal more. There is a great deal of turmoil within secondary education especially at the moment as we continue to move away from traditional methods of pedagogy to modern formats and educational philosophies.

[@edwardluth7740]

Dr Luther said this and it’s true along with migrants and forced assimilation which does not work. am afraid that the schools will prove the very gates of hell, unless they diligently labor in explaining the Holy Scriptures and engraving them in the heart of the youth.

[@danieldelucia12]

You certainly have a point about the humanities disappearing. This is where the left has a well meaning critique, which is that capitalism, when it gets to become the dominant mode of production in a society, permeates into every part of life and (in this case educational institutions) everything becomes making the human person in something akin to a cog in a never ending machine. Every educational institution isn't about learning or obtaining knowledge but rather a means to a job. I can say from experience that I've learned much more from interacting with a variety of videos online and reading books as well as just being naturally curious.

[@sincerelysarcastic4400]

I would add that the left really isn't well-intentioned at the top. The dupes at the bottom, sure, although they are still acting out of insecurity. The people handing down their orders/hashtags are trying to destabilize the existing order so that they can seize power after a "revolution." It's classic Bolshevism.

[@TheresaReichley]

I think some of the wounds on modern humanities are self-inflicted. The works are often tortured into supporting the ideas of the day. They can no longer offer insight into ideas that were current in the time the work was being written and therefore offer nothing to the present. Gilgamesh read as a story speaking to its world tells us a lot. Gilgamesh forced to give up PC insights is us looking into a mirror.

[@mikezeke7041]

Do a long one please! This was good.

[@pschmidty5]

This is actually part of a longer video that he posted about a month ago: kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXTam2OOn9qYlZI

[@mikezeke7041]

@@pschmidty5 he said something about diving deeper in this clip?

[@pschmidty5]

@@mikezeke7041 Yeah for sure. Just wanted you to know that there was more to this one too.

[@mikezeke7041]

@@pschmidty5 cool, thanks

[@vngelicath1580]

Is there a difference between a Neoplatonic and Aristotelian approach to education? I get that the Enlightenment (Liberalism-Rationalism) brought about an emphasis on abstraction and idealism, not grounded in external experience and historical conditioning (a problem overcorrected by the Empiricists and in the arts by the Romantics)... but to some degree, this was foreshadowed by the divergence in approach between the Platonists and Aristotelians, _reason as supreme above experience_ (abstract to reach the Forms) VS sense-experience as the _medium through which we discern the Forms_ ...

[@richardfrerks8712]

Question.. Jordan Punk Cooper .. Would you do an interaction video with Doug Wilsons video Crossroads.. Cannon Press KZbin.. I have no idea what his point is. Or if i should agree with it. Its weird.

[@carlpeterson8182]

I like these shorter videos. Dr. Cooper can get very deep and technical. . These shorter videos are easier to wrap my head around in a drive to work or something. Dr. Cooper should have more of these.

[@MortenBendiksen]

The problem is that schools don't value kids as kids. It's all about what are you going to be, how do we measure it, how much to earn, how much taxes can we get out of you, can you push a lot of paper? It should be serious play, poesy, music, dance, painting, fairy tales, wonder, connections, the value of loyalty (to each other, not some abstract ideal or symbol of adult psychos)

[@scottbrandon6244]

No one reads anymore. It says a lot to me if a person reads books. I used to read one book per day minimum during my PhD studies. I also had to read journal articles and edited book chapters. It is hard now to read more than two a week with life and work commitments.

[@truthisbeautiful7492]

Perhaps audiobooks and audio Scripture would help?

[@adrianthomas1473]

Interesting. When I was a student in the 1970s it was the arts students who were involved with demonstrations and student politics. Those of us in the sciences seemed to have a great deal more work!

[@michaelleapley7054]

Would you conisdering doing a video/podcast on the Abolition of Man by C.S. Lewis? Many of the themes are relevant to issues we see in education. And I would be intrigued to hear you expound upon it. Blessings!

[@surafielabetew9147]

Great video! It’s an Interesting topic, so can you, if possible, do another video about the history of education in the west, and how the people who are in control run it. And how does the church loose it’s role throughout history. Thanks!

[@trudy-annalexandriabrown5489]

Dr Cooper, been a fan of your videos for years now. I was wondering if you can do a video critiquing Our Lady of Fatima apparition? I know you said you would have done it but I guess you didn't get the chance to do so. I would really like to hear your perspective. I am sure you are probably tired of the catholic vs protestant debate. However, I genuinely would like to know why we cannot rely on apparitions.

[@larrylewis3573]

Dear Doctor Cooper, This was an excellent programme. You were just hitting your stride when the programme came to a rather abrupt end. Please pick up on your thought and continue so that it becomes very clear what the underpinnings of modern education are. Then, please work out what a truly integrated Christian education embodies. This is extremely important for faithful Christians in these times. I haven’t gone back over your past videos. I do believe you have covered some of this territory. But, do lay out what a truly education should embody, especially its underpinnings in contrast to the assumptions of modern progressive education. Absolute clarity of thought regarding education is very important at this time. You are providing this clarity. Please continue and work it all out to the logical Christian conclusions. Sincerely In Christ Jesus, Larry Clarence Lewis Ontario Canada.

[@vngelicath1580]

Love the subtle chasuble cameo.

[@EyeLean5280]

Adam Walker has a very measured response to this question in one of his videos about the literary canon. kzbin.info/www/bejne/hpmZl31-lr6Aa7s

[@gbush92223]

Very interesting take. I don't know if I've ever thought about it that way before

[@carissavisscher9648]

I wish I had access to the full video. Can’t seem to find it

[@MrWill9894]

Addressing what you say at about 5 minutes in: Most atheists, myself included, wouldn’t care what people believed, if they weren’t trying to push their beliefs onto people who don’t want them. Case in point, Lauren Boebert’s comments about Christian nationalism. If people like her wouldn’t advocate for forcing people to believe a certain way or become second-class citizens at best, then the particularly loud atheists wouldn’t care about their beliefs one way or another.

[@MrWill9894]

To add, when I went to school, a certain amount of the humanities actually was required to graduate. Not sure where you went to school, but if that wasn’t the experience you had, then your educators failed you

[@timothysuddath3852]

Will, not to be argumentative. But a problem is anytime, with some outside the faith, when faith is brought up, when in the vaguely, it is taken as "shoving it in my face". You must understand, we are given a command to spread the gospel. And a command to love. So, we strive to balance. I freely admit, there are those that are in your face, on both sides. Freedom of religion doesn't equate to freedom "from" religion. Even as an atheist, wouldn't we agree on certain standards of decency and goodness? Don't bully. Behave in class. Respect your teachers and fellow students. Complete, as best you can your work, etc etc. It need not be an either or. Much more unites us than divides us.

[@MrWill9894]

I don’t believe in your religion, so I reject the authority the Bible has in commanding you to spread the gospel. I won’t prevent you from doing that, but at it’s core I reject the premise. Your worldview says to do one thing. My worldview, informed by my own thoughts and feelings, says that is wrong. I freely admit that there are atheists who are argumentative and aggressive, and to that I say- there is no ideology that binds atheists aside from a lack of belief in religion. No one set of dogmas guide atheist thought. Even in atheist circles, many of the most prominent atheist thinkers are criticized by others who simply disagree with what they have to say. On another note, freedom of religion MUST also include freedom from religion (in the way of government enforcement of course) because to do otherwise would be to create an unequal society (and would also violate the 1st amendment’s establishment clause. “Congress shall make no law respecting establishment of religion, or the free exercise thereof”. Secular, enlightenment thinking- thinking you’d benefit greatly from if you found yourself in a nation without that freedom, say, someplace like Saudi Arabia, that actively persecuted non-Muslims

[@timothysuddath3852]

@@MrWill9894 what I mean by freedom from religion, is that amendment doesn't remove religion. It offers the freedom to your own belief. And forbids congress from establishing any "formal" state religion i.e. The Church of England. It actually didn't forbid states until the 20th century when the SCOTUS and the idea of incorporation came into effect. Our world view may disagree on many issues. And, it may very well agree on many more. I've been personally insulted in a restaurant for saying grace before we ate. We weren't disturbing anyone. We respectfully, did what we do and carried on. I was certainly quiter than those around us. It's a two edged sword. A fundamental for me personally is to respect my fellow man. Disagree though I might, I'm not going to belittle him or her.

[@timothysuddath3852]

@@MrWill9894 Do our world views differ that much? As you worded a total rejection of mine? Loving your neighbor as yourself? Simple decency and respect? Yes, we are commanded to spread the gospel.and show the love of Christ. Do not think that is confined to waving a Bible. It's done by donating clothes, school supplies. Food to food banks. Delivering meals to the elderly. Taking the hungry man outside a convenience store and buying him food. It's done on the ground. Getting dirty and sacrificing yourself to others.

[@truthisbeautiful7492]

Scripture, Catechism, Spelling/Grammer, Writing, Reading, Latin, Greek, Hebrew, Logic, Reformation History, US Constitutiton, Public Speaking, and Relating Science with the Bible. Anything else 4/5th graders should study?

[@kkiesh19]

Wait?! It ended just like that? Deeper-dive please :)

[@Outrider74]

Oh man... as a teacher, I have a thousand answers to your question that would take too long and possibly cause me to sin with being furious about all of it.

[@cwstreeper]

Same.

[@8784-l3b]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/n3zGiKhmqdickK8 Modern Educayshun

[@DavidDavidunderthebridgeChampi]

Big words for shoving your world view down kids throats without actually weighing the results. I got a Bovine Detector young in my life. I did not graduate classically in any format. I tested out with a diploma under a state program. I went to work because I hated school. I eventually established a small business that I sold by the time I was 18. Invested the money and had a career in the military and retired successfully. Built two more businesses that I sold because of Union Parasites trying to make me give them larger shares of my profits. I had neither a classical or modern education directed by some educrat. Yet, I was successful financially and personally. None of my family attended any of these institutions. Yet, they are successful. Education means developing your mind and capabilities. My daughter had to play the game of getting to her double Ph.D. The others took a Certified Trade Route and own their own businesses making quite good money.

[@billschleusener2713]

More of this please

[@ddelucia94]

Which podcast episode was this from?

[@DrJordanBCooper]

kzbin.info/www/bejne/rXTam2OOn9qYlZI

[@way2girly]

You really get it. Bravo 👌🏽👍🏽

[@afreensaba6896]

You say like teachers teach puppets. Like we are some puppeteers grasping at strings. The children that are being taught, often have their own perspective on things. Most teachers encourage their views on world. Yes, we often share our beliefs and it has a certain influence on people. But at the end of the day, they will take what they deem correct. And for the record, most of the times, teachers make sure whatever they share it doesn't bad effects on them.

[@way2girly]

I wish you were in my critical theory class I took last semester 🥲🫶🏽.

[@DrJordanBCooper]

My video series Makers of the Modern World dives into the roots of Critical Theory if you want to look further.

[@timothysuddath3852]

At the very beginning of Lewis' "Mere Christianity" he speaks of "human nature". Something we posses, internally, instinctively that other creatures do not. There is a starting point for a secular education. Now, I am a Christian, and a Calvinist-Lutheran. So I don't come from a purely unbiased point of view. The education system must be addressed five fold. 1) removal of the department of education. 2) removal of teacher unions. 3) a restructuring of primary education, base that on reading, writing, arithmetic and an introduction to enlightenment (arts, music, the classics, history) 4) middle education, wrapping up reading writing. Furtherance into higher mathematics, science, IT, history and the arts. Separating high schools into college preparation and trade preparation, with courses corresponding to those fields. 5) A complete restructuring of the university system. Entirely too many university students. Not enough trade school students. Enhance loans/grants to trades, and in the university system governmental backed loans, grants only going to certain degrees. Medical, engineering, etc. Not 1 penny of federal or state money going to all but worthless degrees. We have an enormous shortfall in particular fields. Philosophy has its place, and is valuable to society. But not on the tax payers dime. There are private parties to handle those. Allow them to do so. We need more doctors and electricians, and fewer social science majors.

[@vngelicath1580]

Unrelated, how do you figure yourself a "Calvinist-Lutheran"? I don't mean it rhetorically, I'm genuinely curious. Would you see yourself as following something like the 39 Articles of Religion? What kind of a congregation do you commune at?

[@timothysuddath3852]

@@vngelicath1580 I subscribe to Luther's tenants of the small and large catechism. In simple terms, Sola Fide, Sola Gratia, Sola Scritpura. Our faith, by God's grace, given to us though His word is our salvation. No works we can do add one mark to our salvation. That work was accomplished by Christ, upon the the cross, for all times. In the end, many smaller items can be debated. That is what separates us, from Rome. Faith alone. We cannot buy our way in, or work our way in. I throw John Calvin out there, one, his work was, and is outstanding. Also, because within by beliefs I have a Calvinist streak. I do believe we are totally depraved. That without God, and the work of the Holy Spirit we, in our natural state are dead. I'm undecided, though lean towards unconditional election. I do believe is the perseverance of the saints, seeing you're of the Roman church, Saint as defined in the Greek. So though I when pressed on denomination, I say Lutheran, I have a Calvinist streak in my theology. I attend a small congregation of the Missouri Synod, which is also where I receive holy communion. In the essentials, unity. In the none essentials, charity. In all things, love. Augustin.

[@timothysuddath3852]

As a brief add on. I understand that there are those that for look the fight between Rome, and the rest of us. I'm not one of those. We see but the man. God sees the man's heart. Reconciliation, impossible without the removal of Trent. Coordination, working together. Absolutely. So long as we agree on the essentials laid out in God's word, attested to by the apostles and confirmed by the church fathers. Without going long winded, simply the Apostles creed. I have serious disagreements with Roman doctrine, but I would never consider a Roman Catholic not my brother or sister in Christ.

[@timothysuddath3852]

@@vngelicath1580 As I didn't address it. Whereas I wouldn't necessarily disagree with the 39 articles of the Anglican church, I would argue that was unique to the Church of England. Finding a way through to embrace Protestant belief and creating a definitive break from the Roman church, while maintaining monarchial control, and other political alliances. If I weren't Lutheran, I'd probably be Anglican - maybe. I wasn't raised in either. I was raised in what was simply called a "Christian church". Conservative, but not really a confessional church. I do come from Oklahoma, where pentecostals and baptists are by far the mainstream. I came to Lutheranism via my own study of theology. My biggest disagreement with the reformed church is their view on the sacraments. Particularly the eucharist. But, I do not subscribe to the Roman view either, that Christ is crucified over and over again at each mass, or that the priest offers Christ's body and blood to God the Father. That's backwards. God prepares a table for us where Christ if offered to us. A process of regeneration and grace in and under the elements. That is really the most defining aspect for me personally. Luther didn't throw the baby out with the bath water. He reaffirmed the supremacy of faith and of scripture, while maintaining church ideas and traditions that were correct. Oddly enough, it was my study into the reformed church that brought me into the Lutheran congregation. With all that said, there are many aspects that Lutheran doctrine doesn't embrace, that I do. Speaking of Calvin. While we mustn't get bogged down in dogma and doctrine, we need theology to help us better understand the Bible. Not just that we believe, but exactly what we are believing in and how we understand and promulgate that to others.

[@brutalmentehonesto1]

So basically fascism? No unions? Why? So teachers can be further abused by the system?

[@PrecariousPorcupine]

You’re the Lutheran Jordan Peterson

[@mikezeke7041]

*Christian 😁

[@louisacapell]

@@mikezeke7041 confessional Lutheranism is Christianity

[@Dilley_G45]

@@louisacapell yep the best denomination available. Although there are true Christians in other denominations. Many just hang on corn the community or talk to themselves that doctrine doesn't matter. But many have doubts about their churches, especially some pentecoasters

[@mikezeke7041]

@@Dilley_G45 I agree, but I think cooper represents more than just Lutherans

[@Dilley_G45]

@@mikezeke7041 100% agree. Dr. Cooper has insights for everyone

[@krlabs5472]

What a guy

[@capturedbyannamarie]

So glad I went to a Christian university, so I did not have to deal with all this junk.

[@logicaredux5205]

I know this isn’t what you had in mind, but maybe what we need is something like the old House Committee on Un-American Activities to ferret out the “hidden curriculum” and the worldview of those who stand behind it. I wouldn’t trust that to today’s federal government. Maybe at the state levels.

[@markhorton3994]

I don't think we need another witch hunt. The House Committee on Un-American Activities did a lot of harm to innocent people and very little if any good to anyone.

[@logicaredux5205]

@@markhorton3994 I’m open to any realistic suggestions. Just as long as it takes into account that this is actually war to save this republic and in such cases people get hurt. I see the situation we are now in as a society as trying to find the lesser of two evils. It should have been confronted several decades ago.

[@logicaredux5205]

@@markhorton3994 In all fairness to those hearings they did expose quite a few Reds in Hollywood who were in direct control of Stalin.

[@louisacapell]

It's far too late for that. This is what the plan is. It's just how they want it. And there is no reforming it. Just get your kids out. If you are a Christian, why would you send your children to Satan to be molded 5 days a week??? Get them out of these places.

[@logicaredux5205]

@@louisacapell I agree. And sadly you may be right that it is too late… for a lot of things.

[@robb6059]

Śrīla Prabhupāda: But there must be some form of education, and spiritual education is the most important. The only business of human life is to learn about God.

[@Karaya715]

The problem with “Classical Education “ is the hijacking it by people who want to slip in “Christian”. Classical education IS reading the classics, learning history from the books that were written in a time and as a lesson for all to understand reality of life from every experience. Modern education is failing because of both regressive and progressive ideas. We can’t continue to pretend that too many people think “Christianity” is in fact the basis of all classical education when even the great books are by authors who resoundingly reject the authoritarian ideas of religion. Humanity is not a religion. Facts are not a religion. You don’t need to teach Christianity but you CAN teach the Crusades or the colonization of countries who were slaughtered if they didn’t want to change the very DNA of their culture.

[@-hd4yz]

Near the beginning of this video, he talks about (and I'm paraphrasing him) education being impossible without passing on of values. There is no true secular education.

[@Trivium1989]

Classical Education certainly conveys the civilisations of Athens and Rome, as well as the art, literature and culture inherent from those two cities. However, one cannot overlook the fact that it was the Christian civilisation that both preserved and turned the liberal disciplines into what they are as we know them during the Medieval, Renaissance, Reformation and New England epochs. The culture of the ancient Hebrews, it can be said, is what civilised humanity, using the good, true and beautiful from the “mines of providence” by “putting them to a better use.” Incidentally, it is quite clear the ancients themselves never separated their pagan outlook of deities from the liberal arts (i.e., pantheon of gods within the mythos of Athens, etc.). The Greeks, for example, believed the logos was the underlying principle of order behind the cosmos. The 1st-Century Jews were, to a Greco-Roman, audience, proclaiming the Logos as Jesus of Nazareth: He who was in the beginning, who was with God and was God. See John 1:1-18. The classical in “Classical Christian Education” is, as someone has maintained, servant to that which is Christian. Similar to Augustine and the Capodocian fathers, the CCE resurgence seeks to put these things to a better use-to the uses of truth. Of course, atheists, humanists and other philosophical or religious adherents are able to use them; however, the Christian tradition would perhaps point out that they can’t account for why, on their own framework. Like Dr Cooper mentioned, there is no such thing as “brute facts”. We can’t untether our beliefs from the “forms”.

[@michellepadgett1025]

Why does secular mean no morals and values? You lost me.

[@cosmictreason2242]

Abolish public education