What Is Your Opinion on the Traditional Latin Mass? - Bishop Barron on Vatican II

Friends, I lived through liturgies in the late 60s and 70s that were completely alien to the letter and spirit of Vatican II. We need to encourage more beautiful and reverent celebrations of the Eucharist. And while I have zero quarrel with a wider practice of the Traditional Latin Mass, I also believe that the Novus Ordo can be a very powerful and very rich expression of the liturgy. Remember, Mother Teresa, John Paul II, and other great saints have been spiritually fed by the Ordinary Form. Watch this video for more.
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[@corrinnemay]

The TLM is drawing lots of young people to it. Young families as well. That to me, says something about the hunger for the TLM that is not being fed by the Novus Ordo. I attend both the Novus Ordo and the TLM. But the TLM has led me to fall more intensely in love with our Lord in the Eucharist. That increased love in turn, feeds my desire for Him in the Eucharist, regardless of whether I attend mass in Novus Ordo or TLM.

[@Quarks-gt2ov]

Agreed! I've been inspired to live out the faith better by Gregorian chant, Latin mass, etc. But lately, some like me are worried about the toxicity or division that may come if we don't mutually enrich both rites, and aren't careful about how we reintroduce our old traditions to more people. This sentiment comes from all kinds of Catholics. PS. You're a great talent and musical inspiration Corrinne! An honor to have met you here!

[@worldlyisimmoral]

Completely agree! My husband (non-catholic) enjoys going more to Latin mass vs Novus Ordo. It's a feeling even an outsider can perceive.

[@corrinnemay]

@@Quarks-gt2ov Thank you :)))

[@ashleygrooms5396]

Same! I love TLM so much more, to be quite honest

[@frankyg6906]

That’s absolutely correct. I’ve been attending TLM since I was 21 9 years ago here in Las Vegas. The only way the Novus ordo is done reverently is when it is celebrated resembling the TLM, so why not just celebrate the TLM ☺️

[@thistledownz.2982]

I'm fifty, not a great Catholic and in a messy life. I want the Latin. I want beautiful music. I want the silence.

[@JB6802]

The Traditional Latin Mass brought me back to my faith. I'm in my sixties, and had a messy time in my life, also.

[@jackcraven8345]

JB6802 it drew me closer to the faith even though I was just an rcia candidate recently & was a bit dissatisfied with how modern & streamlined the NO is

[@michellemcdermott2026]

I am 51 and I want all that too

[@laurielewis6746]

My life exactly. Things are hard enough. The TLM is my respite.

[@MrJ567]

I'm almost thirty, former seminarian (novus ordo) and have drifted far from both the Church and God. The Latin Mass is the only venue in which I still feel any positive connection to God anymore.

[@bobbortolin6539]

If I had a choice, I would go with the TLM primarily because of the music, the ad orientem worship, the silence, and the lack of the "Sign of Peace".

[@angelam3517]

Well, that's been one blessing of Covid- no more hand shaking during the sign of peace!

[@nicksteven1112]

The priest facing the people and the sign of peace we’re traditions that were restored from Vatican 2.

[@itsnando20]

Nicholas Lee in the Latin mass, the sign of peace is only reserved for the priest, deacon, and subdeacon. Ad orientem put God at the center, not the priest just how it was for 1500 yrs.

[@nicksteven1112]

@@itsnando20 And in the Early Church, the Eucharist was celebrated as a Meal, where the priest faced the people who gathered around the table. The Early Church also had the sign of peace. Go read into the history of the Early Church, you'd be surprised by how many traditions were actually restored from Vatican II.

[@ugomaniac]

@@itsnando20, and that is precisely the problem with traditionalist Catholics: 1500 years. There was a Catholic Church over 1500 years ago. The Second Vatican Council went back MORE THAN 1500 years ago to bring back practices, or reverted practices that developed over 1500 to how things were OVER 1500 years ago. This doesn't mean that what had developed in 1500 years was bad. Not at all. But, as they are practices, they can be set aside temporarily or permanently. The traditional catholic movement is not as Catholic as it likes to claim, as they are really just fixated on practices in the Church/Mass that originated 1500, while often treating with disdain those practices that predate them. The sign of peace is an example. It was practiced in earlier forms of the Mass, as one can see by reading the accounts of St. Justin Martyr (I believe it's him). So why does it offend traditional catholics so much?

[@williambooth5112]

Two years ago I went to a Traditional Latin Mass and that is the Mass I go to every week now. God bless.

[@fnv870]

Cool Brother! Some years ago I went for the Novus Ordo and that is the Mass I go to Every Day! God Bless Brother! Let's rejoice in the Beauty of God's LOVE for us in all forms!

[@fnv870]

@Yes we can Jesus was the son of God.

[@tomgervasi4653]

My personal preference is the Latin rite, and my personal, subjective bias opinion is it is a better ceremony.

[@tomgervasi4653]

@Yes we can *The Apostles and the early Church in first century AD: Jesus is Messiah/God. This is believed for 800 years. Crucifixion is confirmed by other non-Christian historical sources. *Muhammad "says" he meets an angel in a cave 800 years later, and that is supposedly more reliable? Um sorry no, false prophet, because he is factually incorrect on the historical event objectively, and is 800 years removed.

[@liamoc784]

Yes we can In the OT, it says only God can be the savior. Jesus is God as the bible says

[@Cal0rb]

Growing up Protestant evangelical my experience of going to a novus ordo in my early 20s felt more Protestant than my actual Protestant churches.. this genuinely contributed to me not understanding or converting to Catholicism. Started going to the traditional Latin mass last year and the reverence of the congregation , the ad orientum and the emphasis on the Eucharist and not on the band or the homily made me understand the mass as a sacrifice and the real presence which lead to my conversion. Love the TLM. Deo Gratias.

[@immaculateheart1267]

Bingo, thank you Pope Benedict.

[@MegaMackproductions]

Yup. Same here. It was exceedingly "uncatholic" and made me think the Church had died during the Reformation and went on for a few years to be a Lutheran to find that liturgy I was looking for before finally returning home to the TLM. this is my first year as a Catholic. I love my Mass and I love the reverence of it. The Novus Ordo on the other hand makes me feel too much like I'm outside the Church again.l

[@mikeryan3701]

It was quite deliberate to make a Catholic Mass look and feel much more like a Protestant service. Certain influential people in the Church have been attempting to diminish the differences between Catholicism and Protestantism for some time. The intended outcome is to normalise inter-communion between the Catholic Church and Protestant Churches. It's no co-incidence that these are the very people who are strongest in their desire to suppress the TLM.

[@paulbastier3773]

More Protestant than your own protestant church. This is what Cardinals Ottaviani and Bacci wrote to Pope Paul VI when asked to do a critique on the proposed novus ordo mass: "The Novus Ordo represents both as a whole, and in its details, a striking departure from the Catholic theology of the Mass as it was formulated in Session 22 of the Council of Trent". Among other points, the Study maintains that the faithful "never, absolutely never, asked that the liturgy be changed or mutilated to make it easier to understand." "On many points," the study says, "it has much to gladden the heart of even the most modernist Protestant."

[@admiralbob77]

As Catholics, we are taught that how we "felt" has nothing to do with the intrinsic reality of what happens at the Mass, and the Real Presence. Now if you do get a feeling from it, more power to you. But we're not there for our "feelings."

[@thecatholicman]

John Paul II and Mother Teresa were all formed in the old mass. Baptised in the old rite. JPII ordained sub deacon, deacon, priest, Bishop in the old rite.

[@YusefYandron]

very true Robert and what Bishop Barron said was also true

[@rachel679]

Just because they are saints. It doesn't mean that everything they did was right. St John Paul ii kissed the Koran. Should we do the same ?

[@ugomaniac]

@@rachel679, it is a cultural practice where he received the Koran to kiss a gift that is presented to you. He didn't do it out of some religious reverence for the book. If it was a pair of slippers, he would have kissed them too.

[@Peter-uj8ye]

so why? betray the old rite what they were born into

[@YusefYandron]

@@Peter-uj8ye no one is asking anyone to betray anything

[@monicabermea7652]

I love either one. I am grateful to have Jesus in the Eucharist.

[@nataliecorral4800]

Monica Bermea Thank you!!Amen!!!

[@monicabermea7652]

@@nataliecorral4800 ❤

[@Beatrice.Ndungu]

😍

[@anthonykelly3175]

Jesus said do this in memory of me. The church turned it into a product they could sell

[@pepper72375]

I prefer a liturgy with more reverence owed to God…this is why I have preference- The Latin Mass

[@youtubecharlie1]

I LOVE THE LATIN MASS. I’m 25 years old, came back to the Church in October of 2019, and was introduced to the Latin Mass a month later. It feels like home. So reverent, so beautiful, such a perfect way to pray. It really pulled me in and I’m never leaving it. This is my home now. Thank God!

[@sadie4538]

Deo gratias 🙏🏻

[@patriciadavis2514]

God bless you always ❤️

[@samuelmurphy7943]

i go to a reverent NO mass people dont look for it they just leave for the extraordinary form

[@TheJewishCatholic]

As a Jewish person desiring to officially be in communion with the Catholic Church, it is the Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy and the TLM that make me truly desire to be in that type of environment. It’s holy, it’s sacred, it’s beautiful, it’s authentic and filled with amazing tradition. The NO just doesn’t seem reverent. It’s about the people when it should be about GOD!

[@KevinDonlin]

Welcome, brother! I agree with you 700% - the NO is irreverent, Catholic Lite. Compared to the TLM, it makes my skin crawl.

[@irishman.]

I attended my first ever Latin Mass today. Had confession first, when the priest gave me absolution in Latin at the end my body began to tremble. It was extraordinary and something that had never happened to me previously. As for the Mass, I found it exquisite. The holiness was palpable. The sense of the priest interceding with the Almighty on our behalf.. I didn't understand anything much of what was said but was enriched by the experience.

[@drummerlovesbookworm9738]

You were worshiping The Holy God instead of snowflaking. So awesome to hear.

[@phatcrayonz]

welcome to the old traditional life.

[@sadie4538]

Wow! That’s beautiful. I don’t understand how some of the older generation who recall the TLM as youngsters now, have no regard for it. I just don’t get it. 🤷🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️

[@robertbusek30]

It’s been nine months since you posted this. Have you kept attending the TLM? If so, how’s it going?

[@robertbusek30]

@@sadie4538 - Well, in my opinion, the Boomer generation tends to see the events and trends of their childhoods as things that needed to be put aside in order to embrace the new. I think they see the NO as an improvement because now they feel that they are “involved” in the Mass. Sadly, this makes the Mass about them and not about Christ.

[@acuajera3]

Novus ordo “CAN be very powerful and rich expression of the churches liturgy” but the traditional Latin mass is ALWAYS powerful and rich.

[@latindwarf8173]

SO true

[@RodDop-us9ex]

@M G I second this...We know nothing about tridentine mass...we have our own powerful and rich expressions...respect that...

[@user-jb8wm6mh6m]

@@alexsheppard153 ok but do you have the Filioque?

[@tonycarey1735]

This is simply not true. The TLM is more that capable of being done badly. Ask anyone who grew up with it.

[@catholic3dod790]

Novus Ordo is very destroy Catholic Faith.

[@corrinnemay]

I grew up celebrating mass in the NO and until 3 years ago, that was what my daughter experienced too. After the first time celebrating mass in the EF, she turned to me, midway through mass (she was 7 at this time) and she said "I like this mass better.". Even though she didn't understand Latin, she understood that here was something special and sacred and reverent. Something that she didn't quite experience in the same way with the Novus Ordo mass.

[@SuperSaiyanKrillin]

But Bishop Barron ! Mother Teresa and John Paul 2 were both raised under the Traditional Latin Mass - Saint Mother Teresa was around 60 and Saint John Paul 2 around 50 when the Novus Ordo was made widespread. I don't doubt that the Novus Ordo served their spiritual life greatly but I think it's important to remember that the Tridentine Mass had obviously formed the bedrock of their spiritual life. I'm not trying to dismiss your argument entirely but I think that the argument should be presented under this context - both of them for the majority of their lives formed their spirituality from the Tridentine Mass

[@BishopBarron]

But neither wanted to go back to it.

[@SuperSaiyanKrillin]

@@BishopBarron Wow - I didn't expect you to reply back ! Thank you Your Excellency, please know that my wife and I are big fans of you and your ministry You make a good point

[@JB6802]

@@BishopBarron Did they actually say that? When?

[@corrinnemay]

@@BishopBarron "respect must everywhere be shown for the feelings of all those who are attached to the Latin liturgical tradition, by a wide and generous application of the directives already issued some time ago by the Apostolic See for the use of the Roman Missal according to the typical edition of 1962" - St. John Paul 2 ' Motu Proprio “Ecclesia Dei”

[@corrinnemay]

@@BishopBarron The Priestly Fraternity of St. Peter (FSSP) is a clerical Society of Apostolic Life of Pontifical Right, canonically erected by Pope St. John Paul II in 1988. Their priests serve in apostolates across the world, with the faithful celebration of the traditional Mass and Sacraments (Extraordinary Form of the Roman Rite) at the center of their charism. To me, the fact that Pope St. John Paul canonically erected the FSSP to spread the celebration of TLM throughout the world, speaks of his love for the TLM.

[@stephenbeach6700]

The way the novus ordo is celebrated in 95% of parishes on the east coast is utterly horrific. I refuse to believe that’s the best we can do, having 2000 years of liturgical tradition at our disposal.

[@loric4550]

Have you been to 95% of Parishes on the east coast? ay yi yi

[@itsnando20]

Smoked Pork Ribs absolutely right! That’s why the Tridentine mass is bringing a lot of youth to it including me

[@stephenbeach6700]

@@loric4550 As someone who was in seminary for four years on the east coast... I have been to a lot. Of course not literally 95% but i think you understand my point here!

[@songbirds3712]

You must get around a lot.

[@ntmn8444]

Please stop with the generalizations. You have NOT been to 95% of the churches on the east coast.

[@ferventcatholic5555]

Bishop Barron, Would you ever celebrate the Extraordinary Form of the Mass?

[@hannagonzales7263]

You have to say all the mysteries of the Rosary everyday. Meaning 200 Hail Mary’s for that intention and offer up sacrifices. :D

[@marypinakat8594]

FerventCatholic In fact quite a bit more than that if I am not mistaken. There's a KZbin video on the USCCB website in the last year of a Solemn Mass lengthier than any TLM Mass videos I have seen. Bishop Barron is one of the best in the USCCB team.

[@MasterHackerChannel]

That would be amazing!

[@andrealeshok6191]

I also suggest this. I was pretty distant and honestly against the TLM having grown up in NO my whole life but when I let God lead and opened myself to the Grace therein I have been changed. I still can’t easily follow the TLM or know what is going on all the time but God has drawn me close to him through it in an indescribable way that I have never experienced before. I’m forever thankful to God for His perseverance in courting me for His Kingdom.❤️

[@OrthodoxCatholic1]

The bishop won't answer that question and the reason is clear now--he would be put on the Episcopal blacklist

[@emilyfriedl7042]

Just a note: JP2 turned 40 in 1960. Mother Teresa turned 50 in 1960. It seems that much of their formation happened while attending the Latin Mass, as did many of the saints.

[@huangxxiao]

The point Bishop Barron makes is that the new form also fed the spiritual life of JP2 and MT, that it was good enough for these saints. He is simply saying both are valid.

[@divinecomedian2]

At what age exactly does one reach a majority of his formation?

[@ipso-kk3ft]

@@huangxxiao Agreed. There is of course important formation as a youth, but the most critical and spiritual moments of their lives were as Pope and as founder of the Sistees of Charity. These happened when they were much older.

[@TheJmlew11]

Jacob Alvarez Who is to say? But I think it is safe to say that there was a foundation provided for both in the extraordinary form in their lives. You can’t just ignore it, just like how you can’t ignore the Norvus Ordo affecting future saints. Don’t you think so?

[@OrthodoxCatholic1]

His appeal to them is a poorly thought argument. Nevermind JPII made some horrible mistakes as pope that shouldn't be ignored when discussing him, the Vicar of Christ is to be held to the highest standard per the words of the gospel, rather than be excused

[@2macca746]

I have great respect for Bishop Barron but saying that 2 saints were inspired by the Novus Ordo is a weak argument for its quality. How many were inspired by the Latin Mass? I’m in my 30s and attend the Novus Ordo but the TLM mass in the city is absolutely booming with young families while the majority of parishes around the state are barely hanging on. The young are longing for serious Catholicism that they just aren’t getting in most parishes.

[@divinecomedian2]

Well obviously more saints were inspired by the Latin Mass… it’s been around longer.

[@coldforgedcowboy]

Is it Latin that makes the mass better or other qualities?

[@2macca746]

Jacob Alvarez that’s your best argument? How many years has it been since the the Novus Ordo has been installed? Please show me the statistics for how it has produced generations of serious Catholics living by the teachings of the Church.

[@2macca746]

coldforgedcowboy ide say other qualities. It’s more clear that something sacred is happening during the average TLM. Just my opinion.

[@tonygiovannetti1131]

Disagree that the reason for decline in parish attendance are ceremonies in a dead language (which I studied for 5 years and mastered as a youth). If that's the defining characteristic of appeal to young, then I'd say there are deeper problems. Young are addicted to all things mystical and different - Dungeons and Dragons, Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter. Are these the basis of theological enlightenment and sacramental life? Churches are empty because of shifts in culture from commitment to commonality and a focus on transcendent higher purposes toward self actualization and personal gratification. And, I'd argue that most TLM attendees are no different from their NO attending peers in that regard - preferring lower taxes, less public resources for community welfare and a focus on narrow self interest. If that's what you call 'reverence' and 'moving' then you can keep it - cause it translates into NOTHING meaningful as soon as your tail lights clear the parking lot after mass. From what I've studied in the bible as a devote catholic for decades that's the furthest thing from our Saviors intent. An I'm a very very conservative guy.

[@jeanneamato8278]

A lot of heart and mystery was lost with when the Latin Mass was stopped. Latin is the language the poetry of the mass along with the words. I love Gregorian chants. They are peaceful and contemplative and help the atmosphere be more soulful and reflective.

[@jackcraven8345]

SAME I wish Gregorian chant would make a return in the liturgy modern mass music gives me instant disconnect & that Latin mass be more available even my old rcia teacher thinks it’s a good thing that it’s not that available why such disdain from V2 Catholics for the old traditional music?

[@paulbastier3773]

Back in the 1950's when someone asked our parish priest why the Mass was not in English, he replied that Latin was traditional, and it is appropriate that a universal church should have a universal language. The Jewish faith understands this and the Muslims. and it serves them well.

[@admiralbob77]

@@jackcraven8345 We sing chants at our Ordinary Form parish every Mass.

[@samuelmurphy7943]

@@paulbastier3773 back in the fiftys the tlm was mostly in the venacular

[@jeffreyperez2178]

I also believe that chapels should also host the extraordinary form. I feel as though TLM is treated as a nice to have where Novus is the standard across the states. I would love if the TLM is more accessible being that im in the military and move station to station on occasion and Novus is the only available option in some posts. Again, just my preference though!

[@AnthonyRodriguez-nb6xj]

Yes we can that’s why we don’t allow 16 year olds to vote. They speak nonsense. I’ll pray to St Paul for you to have a conversion like his.

[@anthonyburke3000]

Personally, it should be the other way around. The Tridentine form should be more readily available compared to the Ordinary Form. The Tridentine form is 1500 years old. The Ordinary Form is only 60 years old. I'm not certain how a form of the Mass, that has no real roots within the Church spanning across the centuries, having been around for the rise and fall of empires and witnessed by almost every tongue of the known world, took hold within the last 60 years as the most accessible form unless it was purposefully perpetrated by those who wanted to replace it. Why would you want to replace a tradition that spans across time, space and nations unless the thought was to destroy it?

[@markm.5756]

@Yes we can yes - a 16 year old person is indeed a child. You should be seen and not heard.

[@jeffreyperez2178]

Anthony Burke i dont think V2 meant to replace the traditional mass but it is much easier to facilitate the ordinary form for the clergy and the laity so it was a effect of it. I honestly wouldnt be opposed to extraordinary form taking place in the locations native tounge instead of latin but theres something about latin that feels right to me

[@Kitiwake]

@Yes we can yes they are.

[@johnathanblauw2608]

How I wish more priests and bishops understood the nature, solemnity and beauty - really the peace - of the Latin Mass, and that THAT is the liturgy and the style that is our spiritual heritage and ancestry!! You're excellently, with all due reverence, ask any priest who has begun to celebrate the extraordinary form recently, and he will testify to how celebrating the Latin Mass changes the way he celebrates the Ordinary Mass. Consider learning it - how many bridges you would build if you began to celebrate it (Even if it was only on a monthly basis or so - Heck, even if you celebrate it once)! The power of the silence and absolute attention to every beautiful detail - silently awaiting and looking for the Bridegroom! It simply edifies the heart! Certainly, the Novus Ordo can definitely do this, but sadly, more often than not, the priests who offer it lack that reverence so typical to what the Roman Rite has always been, and how many of the fathers of VII envisioned it.

[@paulbastier3773]

Sadly many NO priest do more of a personal performance ad libbing etc. than a devout God centered celebration of the Holy Mass.

[@TheJmlew11]

I enjoy the Extraordinary form of the mass for the beauty that it presents, and think that almost any Catholic would benefit from attending a high sung mass. It encapsulates such beauty and is truly otherworldly. Though I do not hold to the point where I don’t also see the beauty in the Norvus Ordo. When done well there is also beauty in the mass. I think for my generation (those in our 20s) the attention to beauty and the mysterious nature of it is what makes it attractive.

[@JB6802]

Yes, the mysterious nature and beauty had attracted people for centuries. The New Mass, not so much.

[@YusefYandron]

that can be true but for some its a shock and to many its alien we who attend it take it for granted

[@YusefYandron]

@@JB6802 thats not true the new mass does bring people in and its still the holy sacrifice of the mass a miracle

[@reginabillotti]

@@YusefYandron There are far more people leaving than are being brought in. Churches are closing all over. Furthermore, a lot of people who attend do so out of habit and have functionally rejected a lot of the teachings of the Church.

[@YusefYandron]

@@reginabillotti thats been true since the medieval ages. right now the church in Africa is growing and its the new mass they are attending.

[@adeanest1]

I grew up in the Novus ordo, and I am the father of 5, all ranging from newborn to 13 years old. Though I’d still be considered a young Catholic by most. The experience I have with my family is that although the Novus Ordo can be celebrated reverently - at least in California it frequently is not - and so for me and my family the Latin mass has far more spiritual benefits and far fewer detriments than my experiences with the Novus Ordo. That’s just my experience but it has been reliably my experience overtime. My children prefer, and ask to go to the traditional Latin mass over the Novus Ordo - but I realize that is not everyone else’s experience. Also, generally, when I attend most (but not all) Novus Ordo parishes, I get a lot more negative looks and comments due to having five (sometimes noisy) children as opposed to a traditional Latin mass parish, where if one of my kids drops something ( or screams) no one even as much turns around, because we are all focused on the altar and worshiping God. My children and I especially appreciate how there’s not an “active participation” but there is instead a communal/familial, but still individual, constant concentration on the altar -not the priest. My 5 year old son put it best “ daddy I like it [ the TLM] because there is no give and take, there is only give.” Just my two cents, but it is the honest experience of many of my colleagues and certainly that of my young family.

[@kennethparsad]

Have you celebrated the Extraordinary Form, Bishop? I hope you’ll have a more elaborate/detailed comment about this in another video. Thank you!

[@catherineengle9370]

Amen!

[@lionheart5078]

Im sure he has, Bishop Barron is one of the most educated Bishops they are on language and Church history, im sure he has no problem with the latin of the latin mass.

[@pepper72375]

We want Latin Mass

[@lionheart5078]

@@pepper72375 I want the sacraments regardless of liturgy

[@lionheart5078]

@@danteprudente8637 lol ur a nut man and it’s you who’s lying claiming things you have no idea about.

[@daviddecasien7197]

REASONS WHY I LOVE THE TRADITIONAL LATIN MASS. 1. Ad Orientem worship 2. Use of Latin 3. Gregorian chant 4. Communion on the tongue while kneeling 5. Priestly vestments 6. Beauty, Truth and Goodness. It’s a little Holy Trinity 7. Reverence 8. Sacred music is beautiful, good and true 9. Alter rails 10. Universality 11. Reverence for the Most Holy Eucharist 12. Mystery 13. Confession before every Mass 14. Homilies/Sermons are substantive 15. Reverence for the Holy Name of God 16. God-centric 17. Historical 18. Counter-cultural 19. Silence 20. Only way of adoration and worship befitting for Christ 21. Altar boys with synchronized genuflections 22. Mantillas and generally modest and respectful attire 23. Growing young families 24. Incense 25. The Last Gospel 26. Mass of the Saints

[@frsandquist3952]

Almost every single thing on that list is compatible with the Novus Ordo. Also, it is not the "only way of adoration and worship befitting for Christ." There are are other rites besides the Latin rite. I sympathize with your objection to the way the Novus Ordo is often celebrated though.

[@daviddecasien7197]

@@frsandquist3952 Except we don't see these things in the NO mass, so why not just worship God via the Mass of the Ages. Vatican II and the NO mass are failures. Everyone can see this.

[@itsnando20]

@@frsandquist3952 everything is compatible. However 99% of the time, it isn’t!

[@itsnando20]

Also add in the prayers at the foot of the altar

[@NanaZola-rj4re]

Jesus is the focus and center of the prayers.

[@FLSylvia]

The abuses of the Novus Ordo Mass did not end in the 80’s. It continues today right in your backyard. The Masses celebrated at the Los Angeles Religious Ed conferences attest to it - live bands, dancing, clapping. This is NOTHING like the beauty and reverence of the Traditional Latin Mass.

[@pinoysarisari7374]

Dancing and Singing is part of Biblical Tradition....( Psalm 149:3)---"Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp."...... What is forbidden is complete disrespect of liturgy like clowns, motorcycle entrance of priests etc....

[@fooberdooge3103]

@@pinoysarisari7374 The Mass is the sacrifice of Calvary. Can you imagine the blessed Mother or St. John dancing around the foot of the cross or singing happy cheesy 70's songs? Neither can I.

[@pinoysarisari7374]

@@fooberdooge3103 the mass is a sacrifice and AT THE SAME time a Wedding Supper of the Lamb as St. Joh said... "Then the angel said to me, "Write this: Blessed are those who are invited to the wedding supper of the Lamb!" And he added, "These are the true words of God." --(Revelation 19:9) You can therefore celebrate it with DANCING and Feasting according to the book of Psalms.... Even in Mt. Zion, the image is a happy feasting of the lamb.... (HEBREWS 12: 22-24) "22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.

[@fooberdooge3103]

@@pinoysarisari7374 NATIONAL CONFERENCE OF CATHOLIC BISHOPS (BISHOPS' COMMITTEE on the LITURGY) NEWSLETTER. APRIL/MAY 1982. "FROM THESE DIRECTIVES, from the NATIONAL CONFERENCE of CATHOLIC BISHOPS, all dancing, (ballet, children's gesture as dancing, the clown liturgy) are not permitted to be 'introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever.'" Dance In The Liturgy (1975), "[In western culture] dancing is tied with love, with diversion, with profaneness, with unbridling of the senses: such dancing, in general, is not pure." "For that reason it cannot be introduced into liturgical celebrations of any kind whatever: that would be to inject into the liturgy one of the most desacralized and desacralizing elements; and so it would be equivalent to creating an atmosphere of profaneness which would easily recall to those present and to the participants in the celebration worldly places and situations." On holding hands during the Our Father, Notitiae Vol. XI (1975) p. 226, ". . .holding hands is a sign of intimacy and not reconciliation, and as such disrupts the flow of the Sacramental signs in the Mass which leads to the Sacramental sign of intimacy with Christ and our neighbor, Holy Communion." Isaiah 6:1-7, "In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple. Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the Lord of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. And the posts of the door moved at the voice of him that cried, and the house was filled with smoke. Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the Lord of hosts. Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar: And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged." This is a picture of the Mass in the Bible, and it sounds an awful lot like the TLM. No dancing, no communion in the hand, no lay Eucharistic ministers, no rapping priests, none of that nonsense. Just reverence, and pure worship of the King of the universe.

[@krishyyfan5153]

@@fooberdooge3103 that directive is only limited to your ugly BORING western Culture and Western countries.... in Africa and Asia, Dancing is a form of worship...Even the Jews who came from Asia are Dancing in the presence of God... (2 Samuel 6:14) And David danced before the Lord with all his might, wearing a priestly garment. (Psalm 149:3) Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp.

[@karendarantiere9567]

With all due respect, your Excellency, reverent masses in the novus ordo, such as those celebrated by St. John Paul II, are an extremely rare exception. Neither the liturgies, nor the homilies, nor the music we witness nearly universally nowadays are apt to raise our minds and hearts to the Truth, the Beauty, and the Goodness of the Triune God. No wonder 70% of us do not believe in the real presence. This is simply the manifest and undeniable reality of the novus ordo as it appears before our senses.

[@nml5802]

The NO is bland sometimes and the music can sound pop culture inspired, but believing in the Real Presence means learning your faith and following scripture, like John Ch 6, and the traditions of the Church as taught by the Father’s, and apostolic letters we hear at mass; when you learn your faith, the liturgy prepares you to receive Christ, NO, or TLM. It is is not that hard to grasp the True Presence, we do not necessarily have to be babied along by so called inspiring liturgies. Sometimes we make compromises on perfection of liturgy (maintaining true doctrine, of course) to benefit the entire family perhaps, or to put aside division or pride for a time, or just to get to mass at all. Believing in the Eucharist is no different than the choice the apostles made, “we believe this hard saying because you have the words of eternal life, Lord” it is an act of the will and a CHOICE to learn and to believe, but inspired by the Holy Spirit and by prayer. It does not depend on Latin. The absence of Latin should not destroy the Church; the absence of faith whether in good or bad times is the harm. The apostles did not have a Latin liturgy to help them make their choice, but had their belief in Jesus the true Messiah, who inspired their belief in “my flesh is true food”. There is nothing to bar anyone from reading the Baltimore Catechism or giving it to their kids. When you know the Truth, you believe in the Real Presence regardless of whether the mass or the priest are golden and inspiring. How do you think people kept the faith without liturgically complete masses, for example in Japan, or reformation England, or on battlefields etc. Not everyone can attend the Latin Rite and yes there are devout and spirit filled NO liturgies. Whether NO or TLM, we are all one body of Christ and must pray for one another not divide ourselves. My head is as important to me as my stomach-but one does not look so good as the other (I’ll leave aside which is which). I can go on just fine with bland body parts and beautiful body parts. I care most about receiving Our Lord and becoming more like Christ. We are still one body in the Church , both TLMs and NO’s. The Pharisees thought they had the true law too, but the beggar received Christ more readily.

[@rrickarr]

In Europe we celebrate the Novus Ordo with great reverence!!!!!!!

[@timothylukanananso567]

@@nml5802 such wisdom is rear in TLM vs NO debates. Thanks.

[@SG-hd1qg]

This is basically true

[@greypilgrim1649]

it just bother's me that there always needs to be a qualifier, "when done reverently", it "can be done reverently". Whereas in the TLM it can't be be done irreverently in some fundamental sense, it's built into the liturgy. As I would say those two great Saints became Saints in spite of the Novus Ordo not because of it. Let me please also say I LOVE Bishop Barron. God willing if my soul is saved Bishop Barron's ministry will have played an incalculable role in coming back to the faith. I never heard the faith expressed so articulately and nuanced especially on matters of how to conceptualize God growing up. For me the Catholicism Bishop Barron preached in his Catholicism series and many video series that I came to love I found expressed in the TLM. The third transcendental Beauty is most readily on display, the chanting, the incense, the mystery of the Latin language etc., now if we can find a way to get back to constructing the Cathedrals of old in the West. I always wonder what the Western Church Fathers and Saints would have thought if they heard there would be a "new mass" one day.... they would have said impossible. In my mind as a current revert to the Catholic faith I feel I have a right to the TLM, the Mass that stretches back nearly unchanged for 2000 years in the Roman Church. Lastly, to all the Catholics of the so called traditional movement, Bishop Barron is not your enemy. Few in the past 50 years have brought more souls back to the Church and heeded the call to Evangelization. Also 99% of us can't hold a candle to his education and religious training, he has forgotten more theology than we will ever learn. He may never be a champion of revitalizing the TLM but it is a huge mistake to think he should be the sole target of your frustrations.

[@markm.5756]

What a beautifully written, well thought out and respectful comment you've submitted here! I'm unclear however, as it sounds as if you're not yet in full communion with the Catholic faith - and when you say "if my soul is saved", this grieves my heart. Please clarify. You're so knowledgeable and clear as evidenced by what you've written here - please assure me you've joined the Catholic Church or that you're in the process through RCIA to be confirmed. Thank you and God Bless!

[@zuzaninha]

Beautiful comment...

[@TheJmlew11]

On the subject of beautiful cathedrals, the diocese of Raleigh North Carolina just recently dedicated its cathedral, and it very much resembles traditional architecture

[@jimselimos4863]

@@markm.5756 i think he is in communion with Our Church, but he, like so many of us, doesn't know whether he will make it to Heaven.

[@corrinnemay]

@@markm.5756 he did mention that he is a current revert to the Catholic faith. So I think he is Catholic.

[@NotTheWheel]

As a Younger individual who didn't get to experience Latin Mass - I'd actually like to see it every once in a while. Maybe for special occasions? Makes going to Church feel more venerable to me. Also teaches you some latin (a bonus)

[@ipso-kk3ft]

Maybe check out the masses at the Vatican (lots of Latin) and at Cathedrals, including outside the West! Lots of vernacular music that really lifts you up and shakes you to your soul. I've been blessed to have an organist in our parish well-versed in Gregorian chant and our traditional vernacular chants.

[@renatepiecha4113]

the problem with catholicism is that ALL and everything is stressed more than what it is about i grew up as a catholic and since covid i have been watching all that is catholic why would latin be that important it is not the language you have schools for that it is what is being presented at the alter and how you receive it do you really want to know why the early church wanted the mass said in latin to keep everyone in obedience and holiness and the clergy in power i thank God that time is over and love and emphathy is shown above all kindness bishop barron doese not stray from the faith he doese his best to make us understand that we are free to choose

[@saddenedwiseman810]

@@renatepiecha4113 Extra Ecclesiam Nulla Salus.

[@renatepiecha4113]

translation please i am 80 yrs of age brought up as a catholic still cannot speak latin and your reply doese not show christian love on the heartfelt thought i put into my statement as i have always thought in my mind the communication vehicle that has been given to us brings out the worst in all of us i am not surprised that covid is in our midst how long do you think God will have patience with us dear @@saddenedwiseman810

[@renatepiecha4113]

@@saddenedwiseman810 i looked it up a very firm answer very worthy of one that is a devout catholic and is a very holy follower of his faith and an obedient follower of our lord and saviour i bless you and youre family

[@saintsm]

I beleive that novus ordo with antiphonol chant is great but i don't like having a band playing rock music instead of choir

[@Quarks-gt2ov]

Honestly yes! In my case, it's pretty much only the instruments and poor choir practice that have ever been a problem where we hear Mass.

[@donm-tv8cm]

@Samrat Rulz - definitely! The modern rock band-style singing is one of a few things that helped drive me from my Protestant church denomination. The distinct nature of sacred liturgical music found in the Catholic Church (at least the parishes I've visited so far!) is incomparable! It's so beautiful, and it draws you into the presence of God, edifying one's spirit. That rock band stuff? There's no connection or edification to be had there. It's awful! Now if only everybody attending the Catholic Mass would sing . . .

[@annettea4334]

@Ian Absolutely not. I've never seen a NO mass with clowns or motorcycles here in Europe. In my NO parish, there is quite a bit of Latin in the mass and it's all very reverential. Personally I think it's bad catechism that's driving the young away. If you don't understand what the Eucharist is, you get bored. There are trad Catholics in my family. Sadly, their attitude is one of general contempt and judgement over those who don't do as they do. I've seen more charity coming from my atheists cousins than from them. The TLM doesn't necessarily make you a better Christian. It's how you approach the mass that matters whether in the vernacular, in Latin or in Aramaic. That said, I've always loved Latin and the beauty of the TLM is undoubtable.

[@paulinewoods375]

I am 63 years old , and have never been to a chapel where rock music has been played. Where does this happen?

[@songbirds3712]

It has been over 15 yrs since I have heard anything but piano or organ music at a Mass!

[@thedon978]

The N.O. “Fed the spiritual lives of JPII and Mother Teresa” because JPII and Mother Teresa knew and appreciated the mass in the first place, DUE TO HAVING KNOWN AND APPRECIATED THE TLM! It was JPII who told priests to write to him and he would grant them permission to offer the TLM (if their own bishops would not permit them to offer it); it was Mother Teresa who asked me (a priest) if I would offer the mass for her Sisters in Latin, Roman Canon, and ad orientem. You’ll have to find better reasons than that, Bishop Baron.

[@JesusRulez-l3j]

ST. POPE JOHN PAUL II: “It is important to be ever mindful that communion with Christ is deeply tied to communion with our brothers and sisters. The Sunday Eucharistic gathering is an experience of brotherhood. The sign of peace is a particularly expressive gesture which the faithful are invited to make as a manifestation of the commitment to mutual love which is made in sharing the one bread.”

[@catholicdisciple3232]

The problem is how the Novus Ordo is being disrespected by certain priests who are simply following the 'spirit of V2" ... Unfortunately, it is hard for me (in Canada) to find a properly and reverently done NO Mass. Please do not ignore this, Bishop.

[@fraisedesbois7240]

Same !

[@dwightschrute900]

Same

[@kathyalexander5134]

Why on earth would our pope stop a tradition that's been around a very long time. Latin masses are very beautiful sad day for catholics

[@johndustoncpa5302]

Because traditional minded Catholics know that Vatican 2 breaks from tradition.

[@hankochai]

Traditional Latin Mass is the most beautiful, the most sublime.

[@carlosgbatiz]

From the perspective of a Byzantine Catholic: There is beauty in the Novus Ordo mass and we know the consecration is REAL, but for the most part, it is also a horrible spectacle of liturgical and Eucharistic abuses. It’s like the Novus Ordo mass makes Calvary even more painful for our Lord. It’s like we forgot that tradition is one of the pillars in our deposit of faith. The Roman Rite should go back to Traditional Latin Mass.

[@ipso-kk3ft]

Agreed. But I think a better solution would be reintegrating important elements of the Tridentine mass, especially the prayers, ceremonial, and music aspects, back into Novus Ordo. Cause there are certaintly aspects of the New Rite that are valuable and (in my understanding) superior, these are missing in TLM.

[@marcotuliomacedobicalhomar8320]

Well, I think you actually didn't want to see a wrong thing, my brother, but this sentence is very, if you allow me to say, misunderstandictable, since the Holy Mass is a renovation of the Sacrifice of Christ, as the Council of Trent said, but it isn't a sorrowful renewal. It's on a different way. Now without pain and death. That's also in the Council of Trent.

[@Spectrometer]

Maybe you should describe what you think is a liturgical abuse if you don't want to start a flame war.

[@giovannimartini6405]

I grew up with Novus Ordo mass and I love it. Both Eastern and Vetus Ordo seem interesting to me, but I find them overcharged with symbolic elements only a few of us would understand. It's an elitistic liturgy. There should be room for all liturgies without trying to replace the Novus Ordo. You can have reverence and incense without doing that. Besides, I'm disgusted every time someone says hypotetic saints will be so "despite the Novus Ordo mass and not thank to it". Then I say "the saints before them were saints despite the mass being incomprehensible for most of the laity, not only in language but in overcomplicated signs".

[@itsnando20]

@@ipso-kk3ft that’s what would’ve been the ideal response to changing the liturgy but Archbishop Bughnini stripped most of the mass to cater to non catholics

[@JohnFromAccounting]

Left because of the Novus Ordo. Rejoined because of the traditional Mass.

[@DoctorDewgong]

I've got news for you friend. You were worshiping the Mass and not Christ

[@thegreatrestoration6784]

@@DoctorDewgong Wrong! The Novus Ordo was warned by our Lord Jesus Christ to Marie-Julie Jahenny

[@mw8660]

Your Excellency, would you ever celebrate the Extraordinary form? Bishop Strickland just did and he said it brought him near tears. Wondering if you would learn it, and give us your inside experience. By the way, people who attend NO Masses, also speak very harshly of traditional Mass attendees. Harsh words go both ways Dear Bishop.

[@YusefYandron]

people who have harsh words for the liturgy old or new doesn't reflect either on form of the mass thankfully

[@SperoinDeo]

Ha! Yes, I had a NO relative say that my [TLM] church was a cult. Indeed, it is! The cult of Jesus Christ and His Holy Church.

[@pjsmith4369]

For the first 400 years of Christianity, the Mass was said in Greek. The entire Bible was translated from Hebrew into Greek. There was no Latin Mass and no Latin Bible until St.Jerome was tasked with translating the Bible into Latin and changing the Mass from Greek to Latin. This was around the year 400 ACE. The reason for translating the Mass from Greek into Latin was so that the Roman people could understand what was being said. In other words, it was changed to the vernacular of the Roman people - vulgate Latin.

[@lo.g.2714]

I'm in my 60's refound the Latin Mass 12 months ago. I have to travel quite away to attend but I can never go back to Novis Ordo . The Latin Mass is so spiritual and respectful of the Holy Eucharist. I'm pleased to say there are lots of families with young children who attend Latin Mass so there is still hope for the future.🙏🙏

[@johnflorio3052]

I love all forms of the Mass because Jesus Christ is really present. I’ve attended Mass in Latin, Italian, Spanish, and English and it’s beautiful no matter what.

[@treeroofgrass]

I agree! I like all forms of liturgy. But it’s sad when I see Trads act like they think they’re better than NO worshippers, lacking humility, making an idol out of the form of Mass, instead of worshipping God. so I usually avoid traditionalists circles.

[@zealousideal]

EXACTLY!! Thank you! We need to STOP this “our mass is better or more holy” mentality. They are BOTH good and divine and spiritual. They are both legal and ordained of God and the church. While I agree that TLM is very beautiful and traditional and maybe seems more “divine “ or mystical in a sense. But so is N.O. I think it’s hypocritical, and naive, to think like this. It’s not about the Style (Rite) Of Mass anyway….so to think that one is holier than another is a farce and missing the point. I almost fell into the rad trad trap too. But we have to stop this. If someone prefers one or feels better or gets more out of one, Then that’s cool and fine and one thing. But don’t push your own sentiments on everyone else. It’s also true that many have come back to the Catholic Church BECAUSE of N. O. So we quickly forget this. So it’s intended purpose was met and worked!! BTW…It’s very possible that it could go back to TLM as well. so it depends on the next Pope and what happens in the coming years. but either way… I’m cool with it, I love the mass either way Bcz it’s about Christ and Eucharist not a specific rite. (Maybe just have parishes do both or bring back TLM but in English). There’s many options. Oh …and there is many other rite’s too not just TLM anyway. So what about them? See my point…..

[@Charliechorizo]

​@treeroofgrass - it's not idolising a form of liturgy, but revering the effecatiousness of an ancient mass perfected over 2,000 years. *I am not TLM, but recognise what is self-evident, in that many Novus Ordo masses lacking the reverence and praxis required to reflect both the miracle taking place on the altar, and the memorial of Our Lord's death on the cross.

[@karinabrucker2297]

I also lived when VAT. II changed our liturgy, as a junior in a Catholic women's college. My theology classes changed drastically literally overnight. And went along with it. Until now. COVID closed all our churches, I went looking and began serious research into current Catholic Church history. That is when I read much about Vatican II and am very much scandalized by the shananigans at the council, particularly the behind-the-doors manipulations of Bugnini and his six Protestant clerics who consulted in how to make our liturgy more pleasing to nonCatholics. How many worshippers know these incidents? Not many, not unless you dig. And those who wanted these changes were counting on our ignorance and obedience. Were you aware of what went on Bishop Barron? Do you know the origins of the Novus Ordo and how the liturgy has been systematically stripped of it's Catholicism decade after decade since the 60s? Are you in fact, Your Excellency, a globalist? Or just wishing to create a balance between the old and the new? TLMers are called divisive but it is Vatican II that divided us. And purposely, the demons of masonry, marxism, modernism. But the truth always comes out, does it not? The Novus Ordo may be here to stay for those who want to reel toward a One World Religion, whether or not they realize this is what is happening. Do you want this also Bishop Barron? Yes TLM is in LA... for now. Will you stand with Francis for TLM elimination in 2023, or keep making soft comments of how we should get along....or stand with the Mass of the Ages when push will come to shove? What would Jesus do? I will pray for your discernment.

[@jennbull0247]

I've been to one extraordinary form mass and it was a powerful and reverent hour. I still think about it to this day. It felt so holy and sacred. But unfortunately I am too far from the nearest Latin Mass. How I wish all parishes offered at least one Extraordinary form Mass! St John Cantius in Chicago has a beautiful and reverent Ordinary and Extraordinary form mass. They have been streaming their masses live on KZbin.

[@paulbastier3773]

The Oratorians in the UK do both. When they celebrate the novus ordo mass they do it ad orientem with their back to the people. Both are done devoutly and edifyingly. I often tune into the Oxford Oratory Masses from Malaysia because the time difference suits me. '8am in the UK is 4 pm here.

[@jennbull0247]

@@paulbastier3773 Thank you for sharing! I just subscribed to them and watched their Holy Family mass. It reminds me of St. JOhn Cantius in Chicago. You know, in my ignorance the first time I saw a mass at St. JC is thought it was a TLM mass. But no, it was a reverent and beautiful NO mass. How I wish masses were always this solemn and beautiful! It is my prayer that reverence returns.

[@rev.georgeaburdeineh3107]

I am yet to attend a Western Mass that is not beautiful!!! Traditional is also very beautiful!!! Just keep in mind that the Mass/Liturgy is meant to bring ourselves in the presence of God & HIS Holy Angels!!! As a reminder to be united with God in keeping HIS Holy Commandments PLEASE!!!

[@crowlikemadness]

and yet you don't understand now do you with all do respect !

[@JB6802]

I lived through it, too, and I don't know how you can't acknowledge the damage ever since. Oh sure, you can get something out of the N.O. mass, you can get something out of praying anywhere. I'm sorry, but to try to use JP 2 as a reason not to acknowledge the vast difference before and after Vatican 2, is just skirting around the issue. Thankfully, I have found a TLM and now my Catholic faith is energized and renewed. It's so beautiful and reverent.

[@markm.5756]

If your Catholic faith is truly energized and renewed, then where is your humility?

[@AmericanGuy7654]

All things considered I prefer the ordinary form to the extraordinary form, when it’s done correctly and in a traditional manner according to the rubrics. However, on the whole this is still not done. And you’re much better off at the extraordinary form mass which almost imposes solemnity, and where you’ll know almost for certain you’ll get a rich spiritual experience.

[@ipso-kk3ft]

I picture it as, the Novus Ordo is still in "development" if you will. We've had 50-60 years, while Eastern liturgies etc. have been going on for ages. Of course, the new rite still carries the form and aspects for the Tridentine Rite, and even older Christian practices. But I'd love to hear everyone's thoughts. But yeah. You can see how the bishops around the world, and all the Popes since the 1960s have shaped and enriched the Ordinary Form of the Mass, across different decades, countries, so on. Even with some pitfalls here and there. And then you have Benedict XVI's Summorum Pontificum as well, inspiring mutual enrichment of the rites, etc.

[@eDENjoetree]

“When done correctly and traditionally”, which is never.

[@AmericanGuy7654]

ipso246 01 I think, ironically, that for all of Vatican II’s (rightful) emphasis on ecumenism, the ordinary form of the mass is less ecumenical than the EF. The pre-Lenten season of septuagesima found in the EF, very similar to pre-Lenten practices in eastern churches, was removed. Also the practice of everyone facing East (not mandated by the council, with rubrics even still assuming the priest is facing same direction as the people) has fallen away, which continues in eastern churches from the times of the apostles. Also many parts of the EF mass continue practices that were used by the Old Testament Jews. Also as someone who appreciates Pope Francis’s teachings on the environment, I’d love to see the restoration of the Ember Days which gave thanks to God for the earth and the seasons themselves (them being days of fasting and prayer before the start of each of the 4 seasons).

[@AmericanGuy7654]

Divide and Conquer I’d check out the masses at St. John Cantius in Chicago here: kzbin.info They do OF and EF everyday and in a manner the council intended.

[@TheOtherSymeon]

@@eDENjoetree would you care to clarify your statement?

[@lynzalucky6097]

I am 68 years old and attended Latin Mass regularly as a child. Five weeks ago when the churches were starting to reopen after the shut down, I decided to seek a church that offered TLM. When I entered the church I was blown away by the silence and reverence of all in attendance awaiting the start of Mass. When the bell rang and the priest, altar boys, and deacons entered the sanctuary and said the beautiful prayers at the foot of the altar and bowed during the entire confiteor while continually facing Jesus in the tabernacle, I wept. The chants were so beautiful and I was just so moved by the reverence and magnificence of what I was experiencing, as the priest and everyone else had eyes focused in the same direction to God and His altar on high! I remember thinking: it’s all about you God, this Sacrifice re-enacted is all for You! Then the priest ascended the steps up to the tabernacle and I remember thinking this is the way the Holy Sacrifice was offered for hundreds of years around the entire world and how it shaped the faith and spirituality of my ancestors in Ireland and here in the US, as well as millions of other Catholics, including our great martyrs and saints. I felt that this is the reverence that our Glorious and Holy God who made heaven and earth and sent His son Jesus to this earth to be our Lord and Savior.... I thought truly this is certainly what the Almighty God and King of all Kings deserves....the best of the best for our Divine Majesty! I always loved attending the Novus Ordo Mass, don’t get me wrong, but for me, TLM is the best of the best! It lifts my heart, mind, and soul to an even greater spiritual level that it is hard for me to put my feelings into words. And Holy Communion on the tongue in a kneeling position at the altar rail is such a reverent way to receive Jesus Christ Himself! I always received Jesus on the tongue, but my senses were lifted even more to be kneeling at the altar rail in Jesus’s holy Church and hear the priest say these holy words in Latin: May the Body of Our Lord Jesus Christ keep your soul unto life everlasting. Amen. Awesome! TLM has all the prayers of Novus Ordo and more! I just love it so much! It hurts to hear some priests and others say unkind words about those who attend and prefer TLM, but this is what I have come to really love so much in just 5 short weeks. I can assure you that I am just as happy for those who prefer and attend Novus Ordo. It is a matter of choice for each person. I think it is wonderful that we have a Church that offers us this choice! We are all Catholics who love Jesus and His Holy Church and I pray we can all respect each other’s choice and be united as one in God’s holy Church, regardless of our choice of Liturgy. During the recent shutdown, I watched the Novus Ordo online everyday and one day I decided to watch a Latin Mass. Then I watched a couple of videos about TLM. One video had a number of younger people explain why they attend Latin Mass and, looking back, they did a great job of articulating why they liked it because I agree with everything they said. After researching and reading the 3 documents in which Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict had given their permission for the Extraordinary Form, I decided to give it a try and it blew me away! I purchased a Missal which blew me away also! The TLM really works for me and I thank God for bringing TLM back and leading me back to it after all these years!

[@Lucylou7070]

It hurts to hear some TLMs disregard/disrespect the Mass in the vernacular and idealize the TLM. I agree with you that there is room for both types of Masses. I have many positive memories of the Latin Mass of the 1940s but don't recall the silence of the TLM positively - it' like we were visitors to the priest's Mass as if we were unclean and lucky just to be there as witnesses. I also remember some old women/widows dressed in black knitting while the Mass was being said. We couldn't bring our infants and preschoolers to Mass, so many young families stopped attending as a unit. Maybe only the mother or father would attend with the older children. Such a milieu is not lovingly family oriented. Jesus loved all of us, including our infants and preschoolers. Some families got in the bad habit of not attending Mass as a result. So, to me it's not a good idea for some TLM advocates to wax poetically idealistic and divisively about one versus another Mass format. They don't even seem to know that there are other variant for goodness sake.

[@josephmclaughlin9404]

@@Lucylou7070 sadly, when the liturgy reform commission was formed, it contained influencers who were not Catholic, the main objective was to…remove any obstacle that non Catholics, especially Protestants, might have to Church practices…the main objectives were to the real presence, to The Blessed Mother, The saints and any mention of them that in their eyes could be considered worship. With the help of some members of the hierarchy, they won the day by getting that commission to present the Novus Ordo mass that removed or changed much of the mass prayers, and that was then passed. So you see, to them it’s not just the Latin language but the content of the prayers. What remained was not enough to fill the pews and you are witnessing the results of that today.

[@Sunicarus]

As I said before, in my humble advice Bishop; celebrate the mass in both forms, the novus ordo and the extraordinary form. You could completely take away the momentum of your critics on the right and effectively be a leading figure in that growing demographic of catholicism. The love for the latin mass is growing and isn't going away. And the beauty is you don't have to be exclusive to the latin mass, but you can be a part of it and help lead the faithful who attend it. In my view it's completely in line with your communio path. I speak for many who attend the extraordinary form that we do want to share the beauty of the mass and would love for others to discover it. God bless you and may he continue to bless Word on Fire.

[@JoseMoreno-vd8vj]

Traditional Mass is beautiful and more reverence to our Lord is given 🙏🏻 More traditional masses should be offered in every parish. Give us more choices as lay people to attend the traditional mass and the novus ordo .

[@polishmehappy]

I'm over 50. I've never been to a "wild" Novus Ordo Mass. I grew up in the boonies of Brazil, and the Masses were so beautiful and reverent. Today I live in Missouri boonies, and our Priest celebrates Mass beautifully too. I know Latin, I've been to LM. But I prefer the NO Mass. All I know is that at our Parish there is reverence and real presence. I miss the boonies in Brazil where the poorest of the poor sang without a church organ nor choir, but with with a kind of reverence I haven't witnessed anywhere since.

[@rachelbytheriver]

As a convert, Novus Ordo was very helpful for me (and where I've attended has been done well, I think). It was a huge culture shock (though less than TLM would have been), but it allowed me to more thoughtfully engage and more deeply see how the mass is rooted in Scripture and is a fulfillment of the Old Testament. I appreciate the reverence of TLM, but NO helped me convert.

[@Deerm3at]

Your Excellency, with all due respect, the Traditional Latin Mass is the future. God is calling many young people to the traditional Mass for a reason. The future of the Church is in the past.

[@bernarduskharsyntiew1358]

I vividly remember the Latin Mass I attended as a child.. though I don't understand Latin. And since Vatican 2 did not ban nor prohibit it, I would love to see it back celebrated ...Oh, it's so solemn to me. I am from N.E. of India....

[@johndustoncpa5302]

Vatican 2 lol

[@Scottie404]

The Tridentine Mass, also known as the Traditional Latin Mass (TLM), is the Roman Rite Mass of the Catholic Church which appears in typical editions of the Roman Missal published from 1570 to 1962. Some Catholics seem to think that Jesus said mass in Latin or that it has been around forever.

[@paxetbonum4420]

There is room in our beautiful church for the Latin as well the vernacular. We have currently other rites as well in the church and we all accommodate them. What is important that we worship our God and love Him with all our hearts and soul. The liturgy brings us in union with the Angels and Saints who worship the Divine in Heaven. We become one with them . The Holy Spirit guides us and teaches us how to worship.

[@treeroofgrass]

Well said! I roll my eyes at these liturgical wars… us vs them mentality. people make idols out of the form of Mass, instead of worshiping God.

[@lindaedwards4713]

I truly miss the Latin mass! When the new Vatican guidelines on the mass, it was like we had NOT experienced mass. What a disappointment and then I thought I would get used to it! Well I still miss the old mass, I am now over 70 years of age.

[@sadie4538]

So why not seek a TLM? They’re all over.

[@Moonie-gd6gv]

When I found out about TLM, I returned to the Church after almost 50 years.

[@margaretmichaels7409]

Left a pilgrimage from one Pittsburgh Norvus Ordo Mass parish to another. Many irreverent or squishy liturgies, some priests did try to bring reverence. I do not believe the new Mass is “ all bad”. But it is a weakened, dumbed down form of the Mass of the ages. We went to our first Latin Mass two years ago and were astounded by the holiness and reverence already built in to the old form. Not driven by priest’s personality or flighty modern tastes. We did not look back. Encourage all Catholics to search for the extraordinary form of the Mass. we’ve been robbed of so much of our birthright as Catholics on potency of clear moral teachings, Latin Mass and so much more!!!

[@happypickle4264]

The fullness

[@jgp6711]

I go to mass to receive the Holy Eucharist. My view on Novus Ordo versus Trudentine is that it does not matter - the beauty of the mass can be very uplifting no matter which form is used, but the important part is the Eucharist.

[@robertbusek30]

Will you be offering a video commentary on Traditionis Custodis, Your Excellency? I would very much like to hear your thoughts on this new motu proprio and its potential impact on the Church.

[@OrthodoxCatholic1]

Don't hold your breath! An honest video on it would ruin his Episcopal career

[@robertbusek30]

@@OrthodoxCatholic1 You’re probably right. Still, I would like hear his thoughts. As I said below, I respect his opinion as well as his authority.

[@hja52]

Traditional Latin Mass , please. It will be a challenge for me since I am younger and more familiar with novus order, but I am more drawn to the Trad Latin Mass, especially as of late with all the terrible problems going in in the world.

[@CATboss001]

Fully agreed. And good luck with the comment section under this video!

[@belleepoque3631]

No comment. Lol. Yes good luck.

[@marye7798]

The Latin Mass attracts young families and vocations. Novus Ordo is hemorrhaging both. Each rite is valid, but which one has the zeal? That’s obvious.

[@blackwoodbaritone]

I love the traditional Latin Mass. I’m glad that you said the Novus Ordo isn’t “bad” per se, and while you named a few examples of saints who embraced it, the vast majority of the faithful who have been immersed in both forms find that the TLM is a better aid in encountering the mystery and beauty of the Holy Sacrifice. And rather than being an 83% revision of our inheritance as the Novus Ordo is, the TLM is the fullness of our inheritance that forms our spiritual character in the Roman Rite specifically.

[@anthonygarcia9115]

Amen!

[@corrinnemay]

Hey Scott! well said. :) Hope kids and Faustina are doing well.

[@folofus4815]

I would say it is inaccurate to say that the Novus Ordo is “bad” per say, as no mass can be bad since the sacrifice of Christ is objectively good. However I do not think it really holds a candle to the Latin Mass, the Traditional Mass is so much more reverent and so many prayers and references to Christ’s sacrifice were just ripped out of the mass with Novus Ordo. I also think it’s clear that if you showed a Novus Ordo to any Catholic living between the 1500s to 1800s, they’d be absolutely scandalized and think it was a Protestant service, as thats what the NO was made to imitate.

[@krdiaz8026]

Folofus I think the holier a person is, the more he can see good even in not so good things. Like if a holy person watches GOT, he would see people committing sin and feel mercy for them, and he would understand why sinful people watch these things without himself feeling tempted to watch it, while a less holy person would either want to keep watching, or only get angry because of the gratuitous sex scenes. Thus, while I can't completely know what goes on in a person's heart, I think, generally speaking, most Trads who severely criticize the NO mass are not as holy as they would like to be, because they cannot see the good, only the bad. It's like when sinful people only criticize their neighbor who never goes to mass, and never see how good a father and husband he is.

[@folofus4815]

KR Diaz Not only does this comment have really nothing to do with anything I said, it’s incredibly ironic that you’d accuse a group of people of being unholy for not finding holiness in others. Someone Having problems with the NO mass does not mean they cannot find holiness in other people and it certainly does not mean they think they’re holier than anyone else. But when there is something that should be criticized, there’s no reason not to criticize it! I’d agree that there are many great things about Novus Ordo, but everything that is great about Novus Ordo is present in the traditional mass, and the NO also lacks good things that are in TLM.

[@pinoysarisari7374]

​@@folofus4815 Novus Ordo is introducing nothing New...It is actually more Catholic than the Latin Mass.....IT is more ANcient than Latin Mass.... go read the bible again.... (Psalm 149:3) "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp." Protestant service try to copy the ancient worship, but fail because they don't have a Valid sacrifice...They can dance and sing all they want, but their Sacrifice is a Failure.... Only Catholics can VALIDLY perform Psalm 149:3 because Catholics have acceptable Sacrifice, which is the Eucharist...

[@breakerboy365]

@@pinoysarisari7374 "Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp." repeat that but with the Ark of the Covenant present, some people might die doing this (at the time where it was in the Old Testament Temple)

[@pinoysarisari7374]

@@breakerboy365 it's irrelevant if there is the Ark of the Covenant or not...It is the place of God's presence...King David also Danced naked in the presence of the ARk of the Covenant in "2 Samuel 6:14-23 " ...In the same Way, St. John The Baptist danced inside St. Elizabeth's womb when Mary came....I didn't see St. John the baptist die....

[@carlalies3971]

Why can’t we have both, while maintaining a healthy respect and awareness of the need for both? I think it is important to say there is a connectedness, love, and warmth that the liturgy of the word and eucharist gives you with ordinary form, through hearing the same language as your own. With that said, many of my friends attend extraordinary form masses, and they wouldn’t have it any other way, due the richness, the reverence and the disciplines of that form. There is definitely something to be lost in not having a command of Latin when you attend a Latin mass. Let’s face it, there are only so many times you can think to yourself “I wish I understood what he is saying”, before the “language barrier chasm” is a distraction. I personally prefer the Novus Ordo. I remember the Latin as a child, and being bored in church because I didn’t understand the words. I believe I could learn to grow in love with consistent exposure to the Latin mass as an adult, just as a number of my friends have, but I’m happy where I am at with Novus Ordo.

[@jesusanchorofmysoulkatheri3648]

I’m a cradle Catholic. I experienced the Latin Mass when I was young-Beautiful language. If we would’ve been taught a second language of Latin in school that would have been beneficial. But, we lived in USA and spoke the English language. As a senior now my focus is on getting a very close relationship with Jesus📖🕊🗣 Now, everything else seems to fall into place. that’s my priority✝️💟❣️And I love the Eucharist of the mass🎊🎉Jesus says,”do this in memory of me”♥️

[@glamygirlie]

If you don't understand Latin, All you have to do is get a missal wiyh the proper English translation. Fr. Lassance is a great missal.

[@josephhealy5444]

The Latin Mass is beautiful and reverent. I love it and wish we had a local church that had it. When I was young, I was an altar boy and had to learn the latin. It was awesome.

[@carolynspringerholder6967]

I am very sad that I am not able to have the host on the tongue since COVID.

[@jeanpollock3206]

My tongue has offended God more than my hands...

[@nicksteven1112]

@@jeanpollock3206 finally someone who gets it!

[@itsnando20]

@@jeanpollock3206 my tongue didn’t drop as many particles on the ground

[@marymyers3972]

I was 10 years old when the Latin mass ended and I felt an immediate loss but each Sunday thereafter I began a new path of faith.

[@jeffreyperez2178]

I could not agree more your excellency. I never learned about TLM growing up however and now that i know of it i feel kind of cheated. I absolutely love the extraordinary from and it just feels right and i also think its just plain fun while following the missal. With that being said if the Church has said the Novus Ordo is good to go, than i put my faith in the church since they have a better theological insight than i do. I grew up with novus ordo and have had some seriously spiritual moments in the mass. I will admit Im not a fan to lay ministers handled the host but it is what it is. Once again i restate that frustration towards the church decisions is kind of wasted effort since poor catechism is more of a problem than anything else and this is coming from a confirmed laymen who learned that the eucharist is actually the body of christ in his mid-20s

[@tomgervasi4653]

Latin Mass guy here saying please be kind and respectful to the Bishop, chillax a bit, no friendly fire

[@carlosd4881]

Thank you!!

[@danielpaulus-petrus2357]

I’m a young Catholic. I left the faith when I was very little bc of parents who didn’t really believe and because of very poor catechism. When I went to college I discovered the TLM and it is one of the main things that lead me back to the Church. I have nothing against the OF when done properly and reverently, sadly that is not much of what I have experienced. This document from Pope Francis has hurt me on a deep level. Don’t get me wrong, I have no intentions of leaving the church or becoming schismatic but this still is painful. I hope the bishops and even the Pope can come to see how this decision will hurt many young faithful like myself. I pray that God may guide their actions and lead us all to something better and more unifying than irreverent NO masses and borderline Schismatic Latin Masses.

[@BishopBarron]

I get it. I really do. Just don’t give up on the Pope and Vatican II. It was a lot of undisciplined talk on the TLM side that led to this papal rebuke.

[@thegreatrestoration6784]

@@BishopBarron Vatican 2 wont be around for much longer. It will be nullified. We have the promise of our lady of Good Success about the Great restoration of Traditional Catholicism!

[@maciejpieczula631]

I think the most important thing during mass is the tone of the mass. I have been to Novus Ordo masses where the tone made the mass seem frivolous. I have also been to Novus Ordo masses where the tone was very serious and demanded reverence. I think what played a big roll in that was the priest/s. I have also been to a silent Tridentine mass. I did not dislike this mass but felt no connection to it. It felt tone-less; maybe because it was silent. But I did observe something I thought was interesting however. After the mass the church was prepared for a Novus Ordo mass. And all that was done to do that was the setting up of another alter. After I witnessed that I thought to myself that all churches should be built in a way that allows for both kinds of mass. And it would also force churches to be built with tabernacles in the centre where they should be. Also all priests should be trained to celebrate both kinds of mass and both variations should be offered by every parish and priest. On the issue of mass being in Latin or in the language of the vernacular debate, I always always always (and I don't understand why I never hear from anyone who defends the mass being in the language of the vernacular this following point) ever since I was a boy have always thought to myself of Acts chapter 2. When the Holy Spirit descended on to the apostles and they "began to speak in other languages"(Act 2:4). The reason as to why the apostles were given the ability to speak other languages I think is pretty obvious. To further this point even further I spoke to the priest with whom we celebrated the silent Tridentine mass with. He told me that he learned to read and how to pronounce the words of the Latin text but he did confess he was not really sure what he was praying. Now I am not downing the Latin mass. If you wish to attend mass in Latin where the priest is facing the alter by all means do so. Moving forward however, I don't see why the church should continue its mission in a way different from how the Holy Spirit intended i.e. in the many languages of the people. Over all I am happy that this debate has become more public because I do believe that the Catholic church right now is in need of a healthy dose of orthodoxy. But we shouldn't succumb to a us versus them mentality within the church. Remember that the miracles of the Eucharist have occurred in both versions of the mass. Another thing I would like to point out is his Excellency Bishop Barron has always said with regard to the religion vs science debate is that we Catholics are not "either, or" on the matter, but rather "both, and". So why can't we within the church agree to accept both forms of mass? A "both, and" approach. Anyway these are just some of my thoughts on this matter. And your Excellency Bishop Barron or any other priest or clergy that may happen to read my comment; please set a serious tone in your masses, parishes and the church as a whole. It is what we want and need. Let the world know that the message of the church is uncompromising.

[@Quarks-gt2ov]

Agreed, especially with the last part of your comment! I've had friends disappointed with TLM, not to be disrespectful though. I think a problem in the Church now is a lot of people wanna "grade" the Holy Mass (NO or TLM) by what they personally feel and think, and what novelty they see. Fewer people take the time to really digest and freely participate

[@maciejpieczula631]

@@Quarks-gt2ov Sorry I added a lot to my comment after you liked it. But I would like know what your thoughts are on what I added in my comment.

[@treeroofgrass]

I agree! I’m sick of the us vs them mentality. I’ve had bad experiences with people in the TLM community… treating us NO worshippers as Protestants and inferior Catholics.

[@peterkwasniewski9003]

1. If you have "zero problem" with the TLM, Your Excellency, why don't you learn it and become an ambassador for liturgical peace and the "mutual enrichment" of which your hero, Benedict XVI, spoke? Nay further, if you agree with B16, you'll surely agree that the Roman rite now consists of two forms. Has anyone ever heard of a priest not being able or willing to celebrate his own rite? (I don't personally buy the "two forms" business; I'm arguing on the basis of his own assumptions.) 2. You point to Mother Teresa and John Paul II. Curious, isn't it, how both of them (and B16) were profoundly formed by the old rite of Mass, long before the new came into existence? And what about Padre Pio, one of the most popular and miracle-studded saints of modern times, who hated even the small liturgical changes happening in the 60s, and sidestepped them as much as possible? 3. The argument that Catholics are "nourished" by the new sacramental rites seems hard to sustain in view of the painfully obvious lack of belief, orthodoxy, morals, vocations, and Mass attendance in nearly all Western countries. But studies have shown how the TLM is a powerhouse in all these ways. In short, Bishop Barron: if you want an effective New Evangelization, learn to offer the TLM and let its magnetism draw souls to Christ.

[@BosMutusCatholic]

Can you share these studies?

[@peterkwasniewski9003]

@@BosMutusCatholic Here are two, for starters: liturgyguy.com/2019/02/24/national-survey-results-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attendees/ liturgyguy.com/2020/05/26/2019-20-tlm-survey-what-we-learned-about-latin-mass-attending-young-adults/

[@luismarin739]

Traditional Latin mass made me and my family be in love with the Catholic Church, we used to attend the novus ordo but after I saw several abuses especially with Eucharist minister we decide to attend the traditional Latin mass, we just fall in love and grow in virtues, I sincerely encourage everybody to attends the tradicional latín mass and to pray the rosary .

[@Marlenejessup]

Those of us who embrace the extraordinary form don’t necessarily have a beef with the Novus ordo mass itself....... it’s just that for some reason most parishes that celebrate the traditional Latin mass are exponentially more reverent than most Novus Ordo parishes. I think it’s more about the atmosphere of the entire parish that we are drawn to. We left our Novus ordo parish four years ago and have never looked back. We wanted to raise our kids with the espresso version of the faith and not the decaf. Just my personal feelings.

[@treeroofgrass]

That’s awesome! Sadly all the TLM enthusiasts I’ve encountered look at us NO worshippers as Protestants, that we’re defective, no grace, that we’re unbelievers, and that we aren’t gonna be saved. My views are orthodox but I’ve distanced myself from the traditional movement.

[@ToxicPea]

I think the issue with the Novus Ordo and the Extraordinary Tradition is simply a matter of interest. Many of my fellow young Catholics will point out the grandeur of the Latin Mass, which is true to an extent. However, it is important to note that the primary source of this evocation of awe comes from them not knowing the language of Latin and the number of times when singing is implemented. Their 2 primary arguments are that: 1) English, the stage, and the songs used too similar to "average" (or the concept of a) concert. 2) There isn't enough singing; singing elevates both the soul and prayer to God through its beauty and required effort. I think we can all agree on these arguments, but in theory, if a person who didn't know English and wasn't consumed by the popular culture attended a Novus Ordo mass, he/she would feel the same way as an average Catholic would towards the Latin mass. We also have to understand that the Novus Ordo mass would feel less alien towards the average person. The order was made with the intent of bringing the Church to the average Joe after all.

[@Quarks-gt2ov]

Good points here!

[@ellenjimenez57]

Bishop Barron take care. I saw the persecution and other negative things about being said we keep you and your ministry in our prayer. My family are so thankful for you. Praise be Jesus. We want to attend your mass not sure what time and which church. Take care! God bless

[@mariemorrison6278]

The Church has big arms and should embrace the TLM. It fed the spiritual lives of most of the saints. The latest Motu Proprio (2021) suppresses the beauty of this ancient rite.

[@erichenningfeld]

It's not the most ancient rite... It's like the second or third rite. Because we have Greek rights. And Jesus would have used Hebrew or Aramaic when he gave the supper. So, there's not inherently special about Latin as a language.

[@mariemorrison6278]

@@erichenningfeld and nothing inherently wrong with Latin. Like I said, Mother Church has big arms.

[@clarekuehn4372]

In contrast to all saints, such as Francis de Sales, John Paul II and Theresa were popular but refused to encourage conversions, introduced no correction to other religions, and overly humanized Christ. Their preference for the New Order is not a recommendation for it. Their "canonization" was a rush job. non solum gloriam Dei 😍

[@paulinewoods375]

I remember the Mass being said in Latin when I was a child. Lovely and all as it was, I was happy to see the Mass being said in English- at least I could understand what was being said and what I was answering back and not just rhyming off something from my missal.

[@deirdrelewis1454]

Hear, hear! I actually learned Latin at school but I completely agree. The first English translation was a revelation! At last, we were participants and not spectators. Sorry Bishop Barron, I feel the present translation, basically 19th century English, is incomprehensible to anyone under the age of 60... and not all that comprehensible to those of us over 60 for that matter! In my country, it is one of the reasons that so many young people have left the church.

[@matty9869]

As a child you wouldn't understand yes but as you got older you would have understood every part of the mass. Remember, the mass isn't about you.

[@aahlstrom93]

I started going to Traditional Latin Mass and memorized like 70% of what was being said in a year after study. Did you ever study the Latin? Or just show up on Sundays and expect to have Latin programmed into your mind?

[@paulinewoods375]

@@aahlstrom93 yes I did study Latin at school.

[@paulinewoods375]

@@matty9869 I still like the Mass in my own language. There is a Latin Mass here close to where I live which only started about 2 years. Once Mass attendance returns to normal after this Pandemic, I do intend to visit.

[@patricesoehren254]

I prefer having Latin added to our masses. I've never been to a Latin mass, but would definitely attend if we were offered one in my area.

[@markm.5756]

The traditionalists will lose their minds when they hear this - they'll say the smoke of Satan has entered the church, blah, blah, blah. They'll call you a 'modernist' and 'heretic' as usual. Thank you Bishop Barron - we're behind you 100%. I enjoy learning & participating in the TLM - but am not a TLM snob and never will be.

[@twoonthewall]

I dont think all of those who prefer the Latin mass are some sort of catholic Taliban! I dont hate or even didlike the mass in english, my main problem with the new mass is it can depend far too much on having a good priest more so than the Latin mass to acheive the sense of wonder and awe and deep spirituality. How often have you popped into a church somewhere mid week for mass and you get a priest who appears bored and in a hurry. He rushes through most of the mass in 15/20 mins and is almost speed reading. That could happen with latin mass but i havent seen it yet.

[@Bgpr48]

@@twoonthewall All good points, but on your first sentence, the "traditional Catholics" with platforms are like that. See Taylor Marshall for example. I have no doubt that the many who do attend the Latin mass do so with reverence and humility towards the Novus Ordum.

[@RX7FDfreak]

There’s nothing to lose our minds over in this video. He’s so vague and ambiguous on the actual issues being brought up. The only thing needed is a debate, moderated and recorded for all to see.

[@Bgpr48]

@@RX7FDfreak Or just an acceptance of both as spiritually enlightening, friend.

[@markm.5756]

@@Bgpr48 It would be 'nice' to think this - but from the Taylor Marshall followers, there's nothing reverent or humble with re: to the N.O. They tend to scream "bloody murder" against anyone who still practices the N.O. and condemn those that continue with N.O. as anti-Catholic.

[@fnv870]

An Honest Comment from ASIA Most of the Novus Ordo nowadays are celebrated Properly with great Beauty and Reverence and focus on Christ! It has definitely allowed me to get closer to the Sacraments than ever before! It has made me receive the Body and Blood of Christ with just incredible awe and seriousness. I know a Lot of young Catholics who would say the same! Sadly "certain" small amount of Catholics take those couple of poor instances of certain misuse of certain priests that majorly happened in the U.S. at that time and say that as an example of the Novus Ordo. The Thing is today, the Novus Ordo has been done with full seriousness, and reverence and beauty (as shown with the 2nd Vatican Council) in Asian countries where I am from and African countries, and even more - it has brought more people to the Eucharist in Asia and Africa! The Amazing option giving by the Church to use the Local Language and Songs to do the Eucharist is so much Important in Asian and African countries and especially a lot of Catholics in my Generation. It is an incredible and powerful and faith enriching form of Mass that is the best for Evangelization as evidences and experiences show! Note- Thankyou Bishop Barron for making this Video - Both TLM and Novus Ordo has incredible beauty and reverence and respect - We as Catholics go to receive the Body and Blood of Jesus in the Eucharist, and the rite or form of Mass does and should not matter

[@fnv870]

@Collins Anosike Same brother! Exactly the point, Asia and Africa have completely Different Cultures than Europe and America. Europe and America are pretty similar in Cultures and Languages when compared to Asia and Africa. But that's not the The Case for Asia and Africa. I also heard my Parents say that after the Introduction of Novus Ordo, they valued and loved the Eucharist a whole Lot MORE because now they could understand and appreciate what's happening with the local language and local songs.

[@Brian-mi5kg]

Though St Patrick did convert all of Ireland with TLM, so that would not make sense to imply that the NO clearly the best for evangelizing

[@pinoysarisari7374]

@@Brian-mi5kg it is the best....After Vatican 2, the Catholic grew so fast and became 1.2 Billion....This is clearly the work of the Spirit in our age....

[@Brian-mi5kg]

pinoy sarisari But something like 70% of catholics do not believe in the True Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. it’s super sad :( I just wish Priests would preach more on the Eucharist

[@pinoysarisari7374]

@@Brian-mi5kg cherry picking of catholic doctrine has always been there since time immemorial.... Even some catholics don't believe in Pope St. Paul 6th encyclical against Artificial Birth control... There will always be Tares among the Wheat in the church...

[@damiangurklys1148]

I want to have Latin mass here in Buenos Aires, Argentina to compare, it seems interesting.

[@tobiasgarabato5087]

estaria increible. La unica que conozco es en Benavidez con el Padre Javier Olivera Ravasi pero ademas de esa no hay niguna mas

[@tamantran4750]

It is beautiful. I loved singing the Mass in Latin when I was in elementary school. However, it's nice to join in and be an active part of the great sacrifice of the Mass. Still, if one has never heard the Mass sung in Latin, it would be a great treat, on my opinion.

[@helenhowesmith5268]

The Latin Mass was "Music to My Ears ! Especially when Latin was A required Language to take in a Catholic High School! I Thank you Marywood!!!

[@annaboo103]

Its all about the eucharist ❤

[@amadocruz6320]

Hi. I am 72 yrs old. The TLM is here to stay and so is the NO. It would be a great mistake for the hierarchy to drop ether one. I am a photographer and the young people have discovered the beauty of film. They like the slower more deliberate pace and the mystery of the darkroom process. So digital and film are coexisting very nicely praise God. It is lovely and so generous of Our Lord that he comes down upon our altars in both forms if the Mass out of love for all of us. When the Tribulation comes we will be so desperate for the Eucharist that even a minute piece of a host from a priest saying Mass in a dungeon as Fr. Kolbe did at Auschwitz will be a feast. JMJ

[@AZ1306AZ]

Well said! Thank you for your balanced view.

[@sophiatan9819]

Beautifully articulated! That's what a lot of us are trying to say! Thank you!

[@beccadepeche9490]

I’ve been attending the Novus Ordo for years but NO MORE!!!! I went to a Latin mass and it’s like,” we’ve been robbed of our heritage.” The Spirituality of the traditional Latin mass is so deep and so beautiful. And it’s focused on God the holy Trinity, as is right and just. In a short time I have come to love the Latin mass with all my heart and mind. Remember fellow Catholics, we are not of this world and the world is not our home. The mass was intended to be a place where where Heaven and earth meat. Some of the Novus Ordo masses off today hardly even resemble the traditional Mass. I guess they are trying to placate the world. Worrying about what the world thinks about you because a good way to lose your soul.

[@belsiep]

I love the traditional Latin Mass, the Mass of the Ages! I was a vetus Ordo first communicant (1961), so I was delighted to return to the liturgical practices of my childhood, which I had had to rediscover. Being now an older adult and more mature in the Faith, I was saddened to see all we had been deprived of during five decades! I have observed that the older generations, who were brought up with the TLM, acquired from that liturgy a deep sense of the sacred that helped carry them through all that followed while the younger generations, lacking that support, have struggled to keep their Catholic Faith. In today’s world, bombarded as we are with sights and sounds carrying messages contrary to the Faith, the richness and beauty of the Vetus Ordo helps anchor one firmly in the Transcendent and everlasting Truths of the Church. Numbers do not lie.

[@alwaysbekindlove]

Picking one mass over another is almost the same as preferring a Protestant church because of the music. I don’t go to mass because there’s a show. I go to mass to go to hear the word and to spend time with Christ. Who demonstrates to me with the biggest sacrifices that anyone can provide. And feeds me to that sacrifice. don’t forget that Jesus was rejected by his own. Don’t forget what he came to do, he didn’t come here keep the old going. He came here to light a fire in our hearts. he came here to help all of his children who were lost. And our spirit should be one of humility. In the moment we start attacking our own faith, something clearly wrong

[@ChristusImperat]

I go to Latin mass every Sunday. I recommend it for all. I hope one day all of us can go to Mass the way it always was, it’s not about Latin language it’s about a liturgy focused on Jesus Christ. Unfortunately Mother Theresa and John Paul II didn’t have a way of reverting things to what they always were, but none of them was against Latin mass. I pray for the conversion of those who infiltrated the Church and beg for prayers for my own and my family’s journey of conversion. God bless you all.

[@ChristusImperat]

Thank you Pope Francis! The reaction to your Motu Proprio has been beautiful!! Last Sunday the traditional Mass (in Latin) at my church was PACKED! More people than ever attended! 👍🏻😊

[@peggyp3682]

Here's my penny and a half: if the Extraordinary form was what I had locally, I would go to that Mass, but I'm not going across the state to find it when I have Novus Ordo in my back yard. I go to Mass to worship God. I love incense and beautiful hymns. Don't mind a little Latin but I go to Mass to worship God. The form is not as important as the deed.

[@elizabethbarberis3872]

I'm right there with you Peggy. Don't have a TLM in my area but we have a lovely organist and singer at my church. You get out of Mass what you put into it, don't you? I actually love giving the responses and participating in the Mass. I love the weekday Mass because you give all the responses since none of them are sung then. I wouldn't be sad if they dropped the sign of peace...not a huge fan.

[@peggyp3682]

@@elizabethbarberis3872 Since covid, the sign of peace is more subdued. Like you. I am not a fan of it. I bow to my neighbors and say " peace be with you," and I'm okay with that.

[@treeroofgrass]

I agree 👍👍 I think the devil enjoys all the tlm vs no arguments. 😂

[@sergeauclair2397]

Considering the fact that spreading the Good News of Jesus Christ in a dying world is a communication exercise urgently needed I fail to see the point of using a language i.e. Latin that very few people still understand.

[@Quarks-gt2ov]

Exactly. This old vs. new rite debate is also skewed towards the West, especially America. People need to widen their view on what Catholic Africans, Asians, etc. are experiencing

[@grupoaranzamusic]

After receiving my sacraments in 2019, it took me awhile to fully grasp the idea of the real presence in the eucharist even though it was well taught to me in RCIA. Now that I've learned what the Latin Mass is all about during this pandemic, the real presence is much more logical. Now I understand how the Church was able to convert millions of people hundreds of years ago.

[@stephenbender7593]

I went to my first High Mass today in Philadelphia at the Cathedral of St. Peter and Paul. Absolutely stunning.

[@itsnando20]

I was there too for the Feast of the Assumption! That was my second Latin mass but my first solemn high mass with a full choir! I loved the Palestrina and Father Pasely’s beautiful liturgy along with the wonderful crowd who came despite Covid! Those gold vestments that they used were gorgeous.

[@chickenbonelives]

I converted two years ago and went through RCIA. One month into the process I discovered an ICKSP oratory in my town and I have rarely gone back to novus ordo since my confirmation and first communion. Nothing beats the reverence of receiving the Eucharist kneeling and on the tongue. You really understand in that moment in that position that God is reaching out to you.

[@PakRoc-dev]

When I was younger (late teens), as part of my formation, I did a project on schism in the church, with a focus on the Eastern Orthodox churches. As part of my project, I attended an Orthodox Mass. When I walked in a half hour early, the choir was already singing a low, reverent chant, and and they continued up until the mass started. Mass was two and a half hours, and it was one of the most beautiful celebrations of Christ I had ever seen. Afterwards, the entire congregation gathered for a meal. I was the only one leaving the parking lot after mass. I felt spiritually nourished in a way I had never felt before, and I actually seriously considered converting to Orthodoxy. I love the NO mass, and of course it has its place, but I feel like there needs to be more TLM masses when the spirit needs extra hearty sustenance.

[@aileenbordelon7884]

Thank you for addressing this! Hopefully people will listen to you this time and stop accusing you of hating the Latin Mass

[@marywelsh1497]

Thank you, Bishop Barron, for highlighting the beauty of the Novus Ordo. Whilst I appreciate that many people love the Extraordinary Form, and, being a former Latin student, I understand the content, I am delighted and honoured to attend Holy Mass in my own language. The Novus Ordo should NOT be considered as "inferior'" to the Extraordinary Form nor should the reverse be accepted. God Bless us all in these trying times!