What it feels like to be a tank in Overwatch 2

Everything is streamed live @ / flats before being uploaded to KZbin.
The Overwatch 2 (OW2) grind is real and isn't stopping anytime soon
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►Edited by and thumbnail done by: Freshnuts
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#overwatch2 #overwatch #Flats #tank

[@UberSandvichSpyCrab]

As a Zen main and a game designer I feel like a good way to fix his discord orb is to either give it the ana sleep treatment where it's reduced for tank, or make it vital for Zen to maintain eye contact and risk his positioning with the discorded target by starting the dmg increase % low and have it increase overtime to a max % rate. Changing targets/losing LOS/killing the target resets the % progress.

[@probablyben148]

or just give it a cooldown

[@shafin6089]

@@probablyben148 That wouldn’t really solve the problem of discord just staying on the tank

[@zedoctor656]

​@Shafin if anything it'd just have it stay on tank 24/7 if there's a punishment to take it off. One of my thoughts of a zen change is a dmg output reduction instead of a dmg input increase. So whoever has discord does less dmg, and if on support does less heals therefore more of a reason to put it on others without making zens only good thing just worthless

[@sphenodon2016]

I actually really like the second option; I think reducing it's ability on tank sorta defeats the purpose of it, and at that point you may as well just reduce the damage buff for all heroes (with buffs elsewhere to compensate like letting it linger longer again. which, but proxy, gives Zen a sort of wallhack for longer). But the idea of a ramp up, where it only starts at 5 or 10% and builds with uninterrupted (including shields) LoS to 25%, maybe over a 2.5 or 3 second window? and the decay rate, maybe a .5 or like .8 second grace period before the decay starts, then losing at a pretty high rate, maybe from 25% down to whatever the initial value ends up being (at which point it would break) over just 1.5 seconds? though maybe it could be over 2 seconds to compensate Zen a little for how rough of a nerf this could be. I think it adds yet more complexity to the game, poor newbies are already going to take years to catch up without doing a lot of watching OW videos from Your overwatch and KarQ and all, but I like the concept of the idea and think it merits a serious discussion from the devs

[@sphenodon2016]

​@@RobABankWithABagela similar concept to the idea of his second idea except no ramp up, only a ramp down... this is pretty brilliant too. less complex which I think OW needs to strive for as much as they can to keep new people from getting scared off

[@Neptune1009]

Yes there is a prompt that shows up saying to use your interact key to swap spawns but it’s not very large. Tbh it can be easy to miss if you didn’t know the change happened

[@dumpy8312]

It's one of those "you should have read the patch notes" changes lol

[@enegar2536]

I'm on PS5 and that just don't work No prompt, nothing happened when I press the interact key, nothing

[@WunderwaffePrime]

@@enegar2536 I play on PS5 as well and the feature works for me. I'm not confident, but you may only have a limited amount of time to switch spawns before the prompt disappears, so you might have tried switching spawns after the opportunity had already gone. Take that with a grain of salt though, and give it another try when you get the chance

[@dumpy8312]

@@enegar2536 yeah I play on ps4 and I've been able to use it just not often because the window is small. I may have used it like 2 or 3 times, usually it'll be on escort and I'd be on my way out of the spawn doors but notice the spawns are about to change

[@enegar2536]

@@WunderwaffePrime I just try in the last game Nah, no prompt, I smashed every key of my controller and then died in a atrocious death

[@indecisivewolf5620]

I had to stop queuing for tank. It's just too much of a stress on my mental health. The amount of pressure that a tank has to face in OW2 is way too high. A great tank can carry a match but an average to below average tank is just going to get completely diffed and your team is going to have a miserable time. I'm going to leave tank to people that are better at managing their heart rate than I am.

[@michaelj49]

And this is why tank is the only role I don't play; is suicide at this point

[@bicks4436]

My mechanics are mid so it's all I can do

[@inquisitive6786]

Some ppl dont care about playing bad so it may actually be better to queue with someone who cares

[@zuyasui5028]

Watching flats play makes me want to try my hardest to get better

[@LOCKET2547]

watching flats makes me wonder how he got past diamond with his aim

[@asimplepie2279]

@@LOCKET2547 he has good awareness and mechanical skill. Other people have good aim but flats is good all around, the man does have pretty decent aim I think.

[@carlosgoden4424]

@@asimplepie2279 isn’t aim a mechanic skill? I think Flats has good positioning and game sense

[@carlosgoden4424]

Two things that are harder to track than seeing someone with good aim

[@asimplepie2279]

@@carlosgoden4424 aim is a mechanical skill I think, I mainly mean he’s good with his cooldowns and tech when it comes to tanking. I have seen people with more consistent aim but Flats is still very good. I’d argue he’s one of my favorite tanks to watch.

[@jodiac]

What on earth how did that sigma block every single rock and then hit their own rocks what that was amazing.

[@fadedmogli5179]

5:35 My man's actually said "i don't feel so good Mr Stark" when he turned that corner. As a tank playe,sometimes playing tank just ain't fun at all.

[@allstarwoo4]

Part of it is bad timing. Flats turned a corner on a charging Zen. It's not a common thing that happens but landing a full charged volley does a decent amount of damage and that's before discord and head shots. I melted a Winston 1 time and I was kind of shocked at the damage.

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

@@allstarwoo4 A covered Zen is pretty broken, tbh. Zen is rather op right now.

[@allstarwoo4]

@@FlamingNinjaBoi I don't mean to get into an argument about discord I only wanted to say getting hit with a full volley shot sucks.

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

@@allstarwoo4 I'm not arguing... I'm agreeing that Zen hurts. Between his massive damage output, discord, nuclear foot, and really hands off healing method, Zen is probably the best support atm.

[@darellarocho5729]

Me when I show even an ounce of skill on Ball and their entire team switches to Hog, Sombra, Reaper, Zen, Brig

[@donovan4222]

Lol that’s why I laugh when people complain about ball because he is easily the most counterable tank in the game. Like just a decent Zen or bastion makes his play style near impossible

[@ianmills6260]

​​@@donovan4222 doom is easier to shit on

[@rare9242]

@@donovan4222 bastion is really easy to play around you just engage after turret and hes the most free 1v1 of all time. he really cant do much to ball if you track cds like you should. zen is a prob tho

[@big_gamer1234]

exactly bro lmfao every single time they go sombra and it pisses me off so much

[@detbenji1610]

Me when i show even an ounce of skill on Doom and their entire team switches to Orisa, Echo, Sombra , Ana , Zen

[@Energestical]

Tank gameplay is like 50/50 of whether you get to play the game or not

[@Drelowedz]

Yup, i recently started playing tank and i'm not even high elo player and i just can't do anything cause there's 99% of the game discord orb on me. Its like try playing tank BUT you have 25% damage taken debuff as a passive

[@TheOneWhoReportsForDuty]

As someone learning to play Sigma, the thumbnail reminded me that some people like shooting the tanks way to much and it’s lovely.

[@PurpleMoon799]

i feel like the sound that plays when you get discorded is haunting flats

[@littlelogan34]

*dewwwww*

[@TheRoboRyan]

Enjoy your videos and streams Flats. Keep it up ❤

[@GreenBro11]

I know Flats was complaining but that actually looked like a really fun game. Lots of hero switching and good play from both sides.

[@LEONN515]

Having to switch almost every fight isnt fun

[@ghostirq]

@@LEONN515 nah playing in these high ranks is not fun. One mistake can lead to your death and getting someone picked from your team means the fight is over.

[@donovan4222]

Really? I find counter picking all game the opposite of fun.

[@fuzzyquils]

0:05 I've been playing this game for how long and only just realised THERE'S A WINDOW UP THERE?

[@MaxyX]

Can't wait to watch another episode of the Shoe.

[@detbenji1610]

I like how HALF his HP was gone from just discord and rock lmao 2:02

[@krillitfast2174]

And window

[@all4me501]

that little ability that doubles projectile damage might have made an impact as well

[@detbenji1610]

@@all4me501 Damn does window amplify rock dmg as well? lol

[@all4me501]

@@detbenji1610 yes, pretty sure it even amplifies ramattra punches ;)

[@o7-pika500]

This guy's crazy with the uploads

[@likejuice4195]

The thumbnail says it all

[@fawaaztoefy9334]

Reject Astrophysics, Return to Winton

[@camerondavis7796]

The punch kill on their tank was just DISRESPECTFUL 😂😂

[@MothGirlHina]

About half of the games I have had, the "New spawn" does not give the option. I only get it sometimes, it's really strange.

[@magicfrog9795]

The Mario kart music lol

[@puzzlesuwu]

Flats your channel is my favorite place for Havana gameplay :)

[@aquaflame3263]

Bro, I can relate to just those random turrets (torb or sym) that just kill you as tank. It's very painful

[@StrugglerIndeed]

Looks like standard Havana gameplay, sheer hell

[@LuckyAce101]

when you said holy fuck at the end there i literally could relate to that feeling 100%, us tank players have to fucking turn our brain on overclock to be able to play in high sr lobbies

[@JuanOnJuann]

Love a good Flats tank video

[@astolforiderofblack8704]

Love your work

[@avioro4822]

8:49 that was literally the sigma dropping down lmao

[@megaheadbomb1429]

"so I probably won't exist" we all felt that

[@xxxTheBlazingShogun]

Great video flats

[@viviyphzyion5825]

Seeing what discord orb can do, I think it should just boost damage for zens teammates by 5-10% instead of 25% but remain 25% for himself so he can still be the same "glass cannon" he is

[@amber-xh4gv]

this is 1 zen nerf i can get behind. i don't like what everyone else is offering, but this would be okay. as a zen main.

[@SoraTheKobold]

i haven't intentionally queued for tank in so long lol

[@PurpleMoon799]

listen people don't wanna play tank anymore i swear the queue for it is shorter than the one for support 😂

[@Biggie_Cheese704]

I'm a tank main and sometimes it's unbearable to play tank even in masters shit is horrible id rather queue for support

[@Tstormer]

You ever intentionally chose tank is a mystery in itself

[@MaxyX]

This was tense

[@thejollyredgiant5714]

This thumbnail is pretty funny, someone just threw a box of bullets with the casings on them at sigma

[@lesliejacoby9137]

I do enjoy being at the will of my supports as I basically spectate the game until I can press the shiny "go go gadget" button and go huge or go home 😅.

[@noahcoronado7957]

Ahh yes, how guns shoot bullets cartridge and all at your face

[@courier3320]

It also upset me. No primers either

[@loverodriguez2600]

I love when I don’t get to play my main role because I’m getting a zen spam orbing me and a bastion loading his whole turret form into me

[@xxxwetwillyxxx1]

Can someone help me? I was playing ow2 and I gotta notification box that said "this match and your next will count as loses no matter the outcome" what does this mean and why

[@mountainracing2145]

Can't believe discord orb is still untouched after 4 seasons in 5v5 tbh

[@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong]

The first 2 season it wasn't an apparent problem yet. S3 it became more of one

[@bladeclanhalo3]

because its not an issue

[@Sukuna10281]

@@bladeclanhalo3 it is an issue

[@bladeclanhalo3]

@@Sukuna10281 but its just not

[@antillious]

@@bladeclanhalo3Zen is just a frustrating character to play against, he’s not really over powered just un engaging to play against. They should either rework his damage orb to ramp up the damage increase to 25% or nerf it and buff his attack speed or projectile speed.

[@raaamenguyyy]

Every game as doom I play against Sombra, Ana, orissa, and then a pocket. Cc is fun

[@Sapphic288]

Being a tank is fkn hard. I was popping off with zarya the other day and still got shit from my team.

[@TheArnoldification]

ngl im losing love for tanking. I enjoy it as a role but I absolutely loathe how counter-pick heavy it is. There's just so many times where I feel like I literally can't do anything no matter how good I am relative to the enemy team whereas for dps/support even though you still have good/bad matchups it feels like you don't get completely nullified and can play through tough matchups through skill and good decision making.

[@bladeshark8306]

I think Syms turrent shouls go away once she dies. It shouldn't still be able to kill you when you kills her. It reminds me of how Caustics gas traps used to work in Apex Legends. That used to be a pain to deal with, especially if the whole buidling was trapped up

[@Preacher2517]

Enemy sigma was so good, damn

[@boinggerss1560]

I feel like zen just needs a rework if you do anything to his purple orb the only thing good about him is his ult and maybe his no footsteps if your a flanker so they just gotta change him for the 5v5

[@zagger_]

What a great Sig...

[@zelraths]

As a fellow tank player, but in masters, can confirm, discord FUCKING blows.

[@thekingofaustin7892]

Favorite overwatch player i wish i was as good as you .

[@kitsqui5829]

Man, full bullets including the casing are being thrown at Sigma? Frightening for sure

[@NoFearNoDeath]

I played game on kings row, where they had ball, junk, pharahh,zen n Ana, every time I left spawn as DVA with dm, I insta lose mech, junk was destroying my squishes while I was dying in 0.000001 second even with dm😊

[@nailinthefashion]

What I hate about tanking in season 4 is: everything

[@VoiceDisasterNz]

Turk was popping off

[@scarecr0w630]

I feel this so much, even in frkn Diamond. I get on, do my daily and weeklys( I want the bp skins) and then switch to apex or Gorham or something. It's soooo boring rn

[@faaaabdaaab2719]

I can feel you

[@travass1777]

Turk is nice with it lol. 30-6 19k damage is crazy

[@Matheus-xd3qs]

least intense overwatch 2 tank match:

[@Tragik_]

what gun shoots the whole cartridge

[@adolffranz9502]

that's me when i don't have time to deal with tanker, just perma discord them

[@user-wh4fx4cn1t]

"Playing with perma discord is so fun" as a ramattra one trick I felt that.

[@archiesutherland6127]

u are also using an op hero

[@sapphicseas0451]

@@archiesutherland6127 LMAO what

[@big_gamer1234]

@@archiesutherland6127bronze activities

[@Sukuna10281]

@@archiesutherland6127 bro what?

[@honkman5542]

@@archiesutherland6127 Silver spotted

[@bryancrose5414]

It's the fourth season, and the devs are STILL reworking heroes from OW 1. Their latest victim is Roadhog and knowing them, they're going to make him unplayable, and possibly remove his self healing b/c the original OW team aren't there anymore. RIP to Hog mains.

[@juanix9948]

you say that like there are more than 3 people who main hog (he's not bad, but compared to the rest of the tanks, he really needs something else)

[@bryancrose5414]

@@juanix9948 he needs auto-heal 😂

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

Good, I hope Hog dies and stays dead forevermore.

[@bryancrose5414]

@@FlamingNinjaBoi somebody has trauma.

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

@@bryancrose5414 He's just not a fun character to have as the meta. Makes the game way worse.

[@dwk607]

i have a question, WHO is YOUR barber Flats

[@skiper7795]

The tok crosshair

[@Waffl3B1T]

I never play tank anymore >.

[@SigiHasUrIQ]

The Fact that they nerfed Reinhardt but not Zen is just absourd in my Opinion🙁🙁

[@enegar2536]

​@@SpiritedFalcon Zen it's not a problem because Doomfist's gameplay is to hide between the lines of sight But at the moment you try to playing the game Discord, 450Hp, SO LONG

[@SigiHasUrIQ]

@@SpiritedFalconLittle Tutorial for Zen :) (Unranked-Supportplayer-tips) Zen is especially good against: Rein,Winston,Ball,Sigma,Zarya,Hog,Orisa,Dva,Ram and also kinda Doom when they doesnt dive the Zen :/ So he is pretty balanced 😂

[@all4me501]

@@SigiHasUrIQ Little Tutorial against Zen :) Zen is especially bad against: Getting shot in the bowlingball sized head-hitbox that is mounted on the slowest character in the game (the one without movement or selfhealing abilitys).

[@SigiHasUrIQ]

@@all4me501 Thx for the Tutorial :D

[@all4me501]

@@SigiHasUrIQ No worries, I've got you covered ;)

[@hadrienpez-lavergne1033]

Hey @Flats what are your cross hair settings please

[@KHALID_-yu1sj]

as a dps main, i played tank once. I WAS GETTING FRICKED FROM ALL SIDES, that was a horrible experience im never doing it again.

[@bert1913]

I LOVE CORN

[@n88bdestroyer14]

what is that sig crosshair

[@generalvic8250]

Flats always shitting on poor bronzes that die to turrets, meanwhile Flats dying to sym turrets every time

[@inquisitive6786]

And hitting the tank the entire time on sigma

[@_lin_al3177]

ok but like his dps was sleeeeeping the whole game , flats did p much everything lol

[@gam2945]

Hello, have you heard about our lord and savior the spawn room

[@Locust_League]

Hey flats is playing my main! Time to take notes.

[@_ikako_]

As a GM zen main, I'm fully in support of nerfing discord's effects against tanks, like they did with sleep. Nerf discord and buff either his projectile speed or volley charge time. His current power level is fine, the distribution just needs shifting around

[@Tstormer]

Would you mind training me as a tank player I don't know how to find high ranked players to reach me things .

[@_ikako_]

@@Tstormer you don't need someone to teach you to get good at the game. There's hundreds of hours of content for people looking to improve their gameplay, streamers who are constantly playing as well. The way I got to the rank I'm at was by just playing the game. I've put 1.5k hours in (quite low for a high GM player) and even still I know I've got tons left to learn, even just on zenyatta. Play the game a ton, and watch lots of content and you'll get there.

[@michaelj49]

"buff his projectile speed" he does enough damage already.

[@_ikako_]

@@michaelj49 that's why I didn't say to buff his damage, just the consistency he can output it

[@michaelj49]

@@_ikako_ If you buff his consistency then its easier to land his already huge damage

[@cameronwest7042]

Did anyone else notice at 5:16 he didn't get any over health from his ability

[@antillious]

He died before the ability could finish.

[@joesnuts]

Can some one tell me how to send a gameplay vid? I’m hardstuck gold console and I can’t climb pls help🥺

[@michaelj49]

From the creators of: "Tracer: Enemy over 'ere" We brought you: "Ashe: Enemy here" (I mean, at least theres a reason tracer players do it; to see the distance the enemy has from their position...)

[@marvynjeanbaptiste3206]

I don’t see why the gameplay needs to have hero’s die that fast. I can’t tell you how many times i’ve died as moira trying to fade away. I’d be at full health or 50 less and would die the time it takes me to press a trigger i’m already touching on controller.

[@samzamzow8314]

I love watching the sigma v sigma matchup. All about the timing of them shields into the rock. It becomes a very interesting 4D chess game when you add in where to stop the shield. Do you put it behind the enemy sigma to prevent heals? Or in front? Always fun to see these games play out!

[@theshneyder6100]

being a tank player is just a nightmare right now ,nah bro let me switch to zen and play supp and shred tanks and one shot there dps lol what a great game.

[@Nacif8]

I like how you're still using the cross hair from the other video

[@hirschftw8337]

What if zen’s heal orb was like a 10 second cooldown but the orb stays on who you choose no matter what even outside of your sight. But discord you need to be in direct eye contact for it to be able to be placed and will near instantly go away once behind cover

[@lucasinazumai9873]

Honestly, I do feel like Zen's orbs should have a cooldown. Because when I see the enemy team bunched up together and I have a teammate who can damage multiple enemies at once, I just spam Discord Orb. Meanwhile, if people want Genji to be nerfed, Zen keeping Harmony Orb even out of LOS seems pretty much a case of nerfing Genji.

[@damianvaldez9390]

Every support has a consistent form of healing. Even brig. If you throw orb on a dps who just won a 1v1 and the other dps is getting into one, the 10 second cooldown just hinders zen’s healing even more. Plus 30 healing per sec for one target on a cooldown is not worth it

[@hirschftw8337]

@@damianvaldez9390 Maybe you could put a heal orb on 2 people and the the cooldown works like zarya’s bubbles

[@damianvaldez9390]

@@hirschftw8337 cool idea but his healing orb isn't an issue. People really only dislike discord

[@Ava-sr6uu]

i think you might need to make your crosshair a little bigger

[@kgproz]

gotta respect the mario kart soundtrack in the background

[@calebwooldridge1455]

Tank is 10 times harder to climb on now it’s unreal

[@WeCannotEattheCow]

Love your Sigma. Teaching me lots about the character. Much love from Canada

[@FappleJackity]

10:00 uwu

[@beckyg5952]

The amount of teams who play Zen Ana is fucking gross. Anti and discord need reworks asap

[@stevedave6969]

What it feels like to hit the gym irl

[@n_jacksonn]

Hey what’s the best counter for this tank? Zen… just zen

[@lily-zc2eq]

when the enemy picks zen your tank gets a 25% debuff for existing lol

[@n_jacksonn]

@@lily-zc2eq literally, I just get deleted

[@bloodletter1079]

@@lily-zc2eq which sucks as my main tank is junker queen I love playing her but the moment I get hit with the discord orb I dont even wanna bother trying to play at that point as its nothing but pain and suffering

[@johnroumeliotis3212]

flats is the best tank

[@isa300100]

feel like that sigma was owning Flats so hard that he had to switch to counter it (also because of Zen of course)

[@emilior934]

Of course he was, he was playing a "diving" sigma 😂 . Notice how as soon as he switched to Winton, the playstyle matched the hero. Zen was owning him for a different reason: Flat was not using his barrier to annoy the widow, resulting in his DPS being harrased, allowing Zen to do as he pleased. Not criticizing Flats, thats a clear sign that you have played 10-15 matches and you are burned out. Take a small break.

[@hhheee364]

their sigma, great

[@mythmage8231]

Discord, Sleep Dart, Biotic Grenade, basically any ability that fucks Tanks over disproportionally more than any other role needs looking at.

[@gyarugutz1074]

Just say you hate ana

[@astupidlylongnamethatstoolong]

@@gyarugutz1074 I know it sounds like Ana hate, but it genuinely is more value to just target tanks. In my road to masters, games that I lost or won were decided by whether or not tank was focused by Ana/Zen by a wide margin. And in games I lost, I was being slept darted a lot, discord orbed and anti'd a lot. Even if sleep dart missed, it was a conscious effort on the Ana's part to go out of their way to waste it on me. So yes. Abilities that disproportionately affect tanks are deadly, a consequence of game shifting to 5v5.

[@bladeclanhalo3]

@@SpiritedFalcon so you're saying a good ana gets rewarded for being good

[@bladeclanhalo3]

@@SpiritedFalcon GASP, its almost like good players get rewarded for making good plays. next you'll be telling me that anas who cant hit their skillshots are easy to beat

[@bladeclanhalo3]

@@SpiritedFalcon make stupid comments, get stupid replies

[@theanimeguy5714]

Hi flats 🎉🎉

[@erikchurro3628]

Never liked Sym, she was always a character people would play if they were desperate in my eyes. Glad you put her in her place 🎉

[@garytate9587]

When a team is getting rolled and they change to sym I always type in chat " Here come the desperation turrets" lol

[@erikchurro3628]

@@garytate9587 that’s exactly how it feels

[@hbshadow8981]

Thats mei for me If im diffing their tank as sigma they swap to mei and make me suffer

[@michaelj49]

@@garytate9587 Or hanzo, have seen a lot of players that switch to him because, you know, with hanzo you are gonna be hitting shit, intentionally or unintentionally

[@emilior934]

​@@garytate9587 haha I say the same thing when they switch to junkrat after getting rolled and start spamming. 😂

[@nickpalumbo8046]

I'm surprised flats didnt go ram. I think hes a great counter to sig. But I'm not a top 500 tank.

[@alternatechaos5113]

They had a zen who invalidates ramattras entire existence with discord

[@nickpalumbo8046]

@@alternatechaos5113 true

[@warfighter4129]

Pov you're a tank 1v1ing the slimiest Zen player East of the Mississippi.. Zen: Im not dead. I have discord orb. Youre dead.

[@ShawnD613]

I wish he’d actually say how it feels, why it feels that way and how he feels about it instead of it just being a random conp game

[@connorh2215]

He talks about it all the time in his other vids, playing tanks sucks if they have a zenyatta because you basically permanently take 25% more damage.

[@FlamingNinjaBoi]

He talks about it often. He didn't in this video because it was a gameplay video.

[@erikdayne5429]

Lol playing tank is rough. The other day I got to Diamond for the first time ever on tank. First game in Diamond I had a Lucio and Zenyatta as my supports, we had barely any healing and we lost. Second game in Diamond I had a dps start flaming their teammates literally after the first fight, meanwhile he got dps diffed the whole game and we lost. I look forward to immediately getting knocked back down to Plat lol.

[@michaelj49]

Oh but dont you dare complain about supports! they never go wrong! doesnt matter if they are totally running an off healer comp and do nothing the entire game! (i mean im sorry, the only scenario where lucio is an ok pick is when frogger is playing him, otherwise they throw)

[@Tstormer]

Excuse me what the fuck is that reticle ?!?

[@raymondtomas2294]

It helps with hitting more consistent rocks