What Killed Punk Rock MBA?: The Death of Metal YouTube

I react to Punk Rock MBA (Finn McKenty) and his recent update videos saying that he's run out of ideas. This is actually a far greater problem than you're realizing.
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[@ThePunkRockMBA]

Love everything you said here, and thank you for all your advice and feedback you've given me!

[@Nopquar]

That’s hugely respectable of you to take the feedback and not get offended, well done sir.

[@Kevin_Oskar]

I heard another creator say that an advice he was given was to make 3 type of videos. One for his audience, one for the algorithm and one for himself. So as an advice, could it better to sparse them out and for each video or so you want to make for yourself out of interest, you make another that you know will just do well with views? And upload them everyother time. Instead of having a period of videos you like, but doesn't do that well, and eventually switching to another period of videos that you don't care that much about that will cause a burnout.

[@aaronmcbryer4362]

Hugs to you, love what you do. I think you are hilarious. Long time viewer, just like I am of Mike's. Keep your head up, some of these assholes seem to forget that rock music is supposed to be fun.

[@Ryo7_7]

My advice is don't assume the worse of comments. It's literally just text. I like your channel and I appreciate it. I would love to see some newer avenues of what is uncommonly known about metal genres. I love the one about the indie genre for sure. Never limit yourself for the few who "have a problem" with it. Stay up brother. 🤘

[@Ryo7_7]

@@Kevin_Oskar I agree with that and will definitely support it.

[@wesleytrott6397]

I feel like the KZbin algorithm has gotten worse. Lately, the videos it recommends has been pretty meh. I'm having to scroll down further and further to find something that interests me.

[@Madchris8828]

And then there are shorts, that have almost nothing to do with your interests that come up for no reason.

[@blazingmonolith4323]

KZbin is also censoring people's comments. It's getting bad out here

[@imjustadrummer]

@@Madchris8828 drives me nuts. Most of them are pure trash.

[@christopherrowe7860]

def been there recently

[@JakNasty69]

I knew something felt off, for the past couple weeks I've been getting recommended stuff I have literally no interest in and it has literally taken me AN HOUR at minimum to find something even remotely interesting

[@bunsby7482]

I just want to give Finn a hug, bro has brought so many laughs and smiles to me over the past few years, during some dark times, I just wish he could see the positive impact he has 💚

[@Ryo7_7]

True. So true.

[@IOxyrinchus]

Same here, because of him I discovered bands whose music saved my life during lockdown

[@noLopez-ik5is]

Fin got me into punk rock and if it weren't for all the bands I ended up finding because of him I wouldn't have graduated highshool 💯

[@queensofthedthrone8267]

Getting a bunch of metalheads in a room to have a normal doscussion is harder than bringing two Jupiter sized positively charged magnets to sit side by side.

[@Rupture_EX]

Depends on the topic, hair care discussion tends to go very civil.

[@trashpacker4500]

Metal people aren’t used to somebody giving them content that doesn’t talk about metal like it’s the best, most innovative, most welcoming, most important genre for intelligent, sophisticated people with superior taste. It was so unbelievably refreshing to hear Finn burst our bubble and demystify the culture.

[@Ryo7_7]

True. I watch some of his content but, Id rather watch unbiased information about what I may not know about metal, rock, alternative, punk, etc. Just my opinion.

[@travisspaulding2222]

@@Ryo7_7 That's why I like watching a few reaction channels. Most of them are forced ad lame, and to be honest, I think a lot of them listen to the song ahead of time to plan their reactions. But, there are a few channels where I think I am seeing genuine, unbiased (as far as unbiased a music fan can be) reactions to the music I love.

[@DarthWinterMadness]

I absolutely agree with that statement. We need more people like Mike and Finn, who can open people's eyes and make them go outside of their echo chamber. Cheers from France! 🍻

[@Eirik_Bloodaxe]

Yeah but his music takes are only part of the reason people hate him. They also hate him and his wife because they aren’t raging communists.

[@lorenzodesidera1438]

Very, very well said.

[@davidrustylouis6818]

Just realizing that I haven't gotten a notification for a Punk Rock MBA video since January I believe. I've been a fan of Finn for years & I enjoyed 90% of his videos (even the ones I wasn't fully into, I still watched most of them. He's a cool dude who has interesting stories regardless of the topic of any particular video imo.

[@HappinessDIY]

I mean, I don't have a huge channel, but I have been in marketing for almost a decade, and I have noticed a pattern: When people make content for the audience, they burn out one way or another, but when they just do what they love, the growth may be slower, but you do get better fans. 1000 true fans, who will ride or die. When you make it for the audience, that audience doesn't care about the person or the brand, just the content, and there is little loyalty. Moistcritical, Joe Rogan, Lex Friedman, all the top creators I follow got there by doing their own thing.

[@kevintanza6968]

Following a metal example, Yngwie has said the same thing. That is better to do what you love because if you don't, you will second guess yourself. And people may dislike the guy, but he has been consistently doing his thing regardless of trends.

[@williamlanger9229]

@@kevintanza6968you can still second guess something you love. You wouldn’t be second guessing the fact that you like it, but you could second guess whether its a good career path and more.

[@EmperorTigerstar]

To help delay the inevitable heat death of original ideas for content, I often do remakes of old videos after a few years since I can always attempt to improve stuff.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Sometimes those can work great!!!

[@killergrooves2438]

I actually wish more KZbinrs did this. There are so many creators I like who have improved their style greatly over several years who could reach into their back catalogue, pluck out a subject from some 5-10 minute video they did 10 years ago and do it better, but they just don’t.

[@wallybonejengles5595]

Finn appreciation station 🚉 ❤️

[@dominiquechenard2220]

Rick has genuine charisma, no ads/sponsor pitches to sit through, and has a really unique background he taps into. Thats what stands out to me and what makes me keep coming back when I’m looking to watch something while making dinner.

[@EncoreASMR]

That's why Rick does so well. I think he knows the business side well, but he also knows most music fans care about art, not record and ticket sales. Finn gets too carried away with marketing and talking abour profit margins

[@shaevizla]

I watch you, Finn and Rick for around 5+ years now. And in the case of Rick, I'd say it's the fact that he didn't pigeonhole himself to a single music genre early on is what allowed him to diversify later. Much of his early content was educational which is both evergreen and continues to establish him as some kind of a wizard to his core audience so his insight on anything else related to music would be viewed and propagated as something of great value. Even if he's not right about everything, there is no denying this guy has an incredible amount of knowledge across various genres, the industry and experience under his belt, which is a colossal boost to credibility over any of his detractors.

[@WILD__THINGS]

I've been subscribed to The Punk Rock MBA for years and don't plan on unsubbing. However, I've been watching less and less of his videos. For me, it mostly comes down to one issue: he's become more and more of a snarky, condescending personality who often comes across like his opinions are the only correct ones. He has repeatedly crapped on: black metal, thrash metal, power metal, rap metal, doom metal, emo, Tool and their fanbase, Deftones and their fanbase, System Of A Down, boomers, zoomers, millenials, TikTok, liberals, "chads", stoners, etc. etc., I could go on and on. And I'm not even a fan of all of those nor do I fall into all of those categories. But his constant negativity is just tiresome, especially when he almost always does it coming from an obnoxious, elitist point of view. He has genuinely HORRIBLE takes, and that's fine because opinions are obviously subjective, but when you constantly try to dunk on others for their takes, you're going to receive backlash. And not only will he say he disagrees, he labels entire groups and fanbases as racists, losers, incels, misogynists, and so on. THIS is the main reason his channel is underproducing. Look at what they say on Reddit. And I'm sure he will say "Well Redditors are just haters" but therein lies his issue; a reluctance to consider criticism. This guy is 50 and came up in the hardcore scene. He was there for some legendary shit and has a wealth of knowledge to share on it. Thats why I first became a fan. Why on Earth is he acting and talking like he's 20 or 30? Sorry, but I don't feel bad for a middle-aged man who has chosen a career path that puts his finances at the mercy of viewers, then insults their intelligence. And there are plenty of channels that have either made content about the same topic for years but consistently found ways to keep it fresh and entertaining or figured out how to branch out without falling off. He can either continue to blame outside factors and act like it's outside of his control or he can improve. It's up to him.

[@AlligatorArms]

And he made a resolution to be “nicer” to everyone. Well it probably lasted longer than most resolutions 😂. But yeah, I love his content too, but how many times does he talk about how rock fans of all subgenres need to come together as one to save rock & roll, and then make videos antagonizing all those ingroups. Yeah it’s funny sometimes, they are deserving targets sometimes, but at the end of the day, it’s a really negative, often toxic environment.

[@davidrustylouis6818]

@@AlligatorArms "Toxic environment" that sounds like something an HR or DEI rep would say...lol. He makes great content, he makes jokes & takes jabs at bands & fanbases - how is that any different from a stand-up comedian? It's just another person's opinion (or joke), there's no reason to wilt over it.

[@kevintanza6968]

@@davidrustylouis6818 You can do it. That's perfectly fine. But then don't complain if people are walking away. Take it on the chin and keep doing what you feel is right. But people can also make their choice of walking away.

[@kevintanza6968]

I feel that internet culture has led a lot of people to constantly take jabs at their audiences. Look, there are always some weirdos in every single fanbase and community, but most people are, by and large, fairly normal. And considering that you are making a living on a platform that requires people liking you and your content, then shitting on them might not be the best idea. I mean, you can say that you don't like this metal genre because X, Y, and Z. That's fine and there are arguments to criticize every subgenre, for example. But going against people and calling them racists, misogynists, incels, etc., which have become shallow internet buzzwords but should have stronger connotations, is not okay. At the end, live by the sword, die by the sword. He CHOSE to do that. Therefore, he needs to deal with the consequences of his own actions. That's how it goes. He is not a kid anymore.

[@AlligatorArms]

@@davidrustylouis6818 I could’ve worded it differently, but the the point still stands that if you’re going to make multiple videos blaming gatekeepers for the decline of rock music’s cultural relevance, then don’t make other videos gatekeeping fans of many different rock subgenres. I personally see it as good natured humor most of the time but could absolutely see how others may perceive it differently.

[@samueldemos958]

My opinion about Rick is that he is the most family friendly rock/guitar KZbinr out there that why KZbin promote him so much

[@bengreenbank]

He’s also legitimately knowledgeable about music including theory, recording/production, history and the business itself. It’s not all just bullshit. His what makes this song great videos were revolutionary at the time

[@kode-man23]

Yeah, and the advice for people starting out to “do what you’re passionate about” is great advice… for someone starting out. The universe doesn’t owe you a KZbin career. If you start a channel, and you play the game, you “crack the algorithm”, yeah that probably isn’t going to be very fulfilling after a few years. Some people can make that kind of content, seemingly forever, and not get bored by it, but I bet most creative people would start to hate it at some point. Make what you love, and if you find an audience then keep going. If the time that you put into it isn’t worth what you get back, then maybe youtube isn’t for you. Look at professional athletes and musicians. There’s one that makes it for however many thousand that start out.

[@EncoreASMR]

Rick is seriously good and a very balanced person

[@sole__doubt]

Cookie cutter, milk toast music channel. I like his interviews better than his solo content.

[@billg708]

I've been a fan of Finn for many years. He's introduced me to so many artists that I still love. I grew up in the tri state hardcore seen, and when I discovered his channel, it just clicked for me.

[@BrandonDeon]

Honestly, I think of the comment more as the "disagreement" section at this point

[@TheVoodoo862]

I disagree

[@EncoreASMR]

Finn is seriously tired and fatigued. He went from just talking about bands to inserting his opinions about everything and being angry when someone disagrees. He needs to back off and reexamine himself, his strategy and his work-life balance.

[@brianjohnston5221]

I’ve gotten angry messages from him because I pointed things out about his takes. After that happened a few times I was done with his channel. I clicked here for the schadenfreude. There are many more out there doing the same thing he is doing but they are likeable people.

[@MikeFoerster]

I'd say my attitude is similar to yours. I've had people send me paragraphs on why they are better than I am and how I suck. When I get these, I actually will dig in and learn more about that person. What I've learned is that they are generally a person who's life didn't go the way that they wanted and when they see someone else who's enjoying what they are doing and getting somewhere with it, they feel this need to dump on it. it is sad, but there's not a lot you can do about it.

[@arthurhowardpl]

If it’s too hard get a real job.

[@arthurhowardpl]

Beato is likable unlike some people.

[@MPerfect92]

Here’s my two cents: I asked myself “what makes me want to watch a KZbin video or follow a channel”, and I noticed a common theme. It’s high quality documentary/deep dive style videos. Those channels that release a video like once a month. They use visual imagery and dive deep into a topic. Like my favorite channel “sea” that releases super in depth videos on the cosmos. How I think that could translate into a music channel would be something like an in depth look at maybe a metallica album and its whole story of its creation. Or a deep dive into how metal music was founded. People want to watch something that says “I put serious time into this”, and they want to follow along visually. Of course that takes time/money/resources to make something like that, but I think it ultimately pays off in the long run.

[@Afterglow.Studios]

Never seen a video from ya. Came to support my boy Finn. Glad we’re on the same page

[@sole__doubt]

Its wild how he takes the comments seriously. Hes a youtube pro at this point he should know better.

[@IOxyrinchus]

Honestly it’s baffling the amount of energy people put into hating him, as if he’s done something to them personally. At the end of the day he’s just a dude expressing his opinion. I hope he keeps doing what he does because I’ve discovered some of my favourite bands through his videos and some genuinely solid life advice too

[@spitefulcrow5026]

Love Finns channel and will always keep watching. My constructive criticism for him is to be less judgemental and hateful. A lot of what he says can come across as genuinely mean spirited. The audience can feel that. I sense a bit of a negative feedback loop happening.

[@Eirik_Bloodaxe]

I’ve watched a lot of his videos and livestreams and I’ve never come away with the impression that he’s “judgmental or hateful”. Not even really an asshole. Just poking fun.

[@yoshewab1639]

Hey man I’ll be honest; I get it. I’m a fan. But one day, the lumber mill where my grandparents worked just shut down and they had to go get new jobs somewhere else, doing something unrelated to lumber. Maybe the audience has just moved on dude

[@kevintanza6968]

Pretty much. No job is eternal. And not everything can go your way.

[@brandon_crow1291]

I'll be brutally honest here, I personally stopped watching his content cause it got to a point where each video either just seemed like dumb contrarianism at best or straight up rage/hate view baiting at worst. As an example that was mentioned "K-pop is the new emo". No...no its not. All that is is a statment made to start shit. I'm sure Finn is a a great dude, but content wise it just got to a point where it seemed like he was just saying shit to start shit or to get views. And while ya, getting views is important (duh) being a cringy shit disturber is well...cringy.

[@BecomeTheKnight]

So in regards to the "K Pop is the new Emo," as creators we like talking about things that our audience doesn't necessarily care about. And KZbin analyzes a video's metadata absed upon what's said in the video, the production quality and style, and the keywords in the title, description and thumbnail. In an effort to get his video served to as many people as possible, he tried to relate K Pop to his audience as best as he thought he could. He "found an angle." A recent form of me doing this is shoving James Hetfield's mug onto a thumbnail that had nothing to do with him. It's just a video about dialing a guitar tone. So yes, the intrigue is built by making such a wild claim, but fundamentally he's trying to get his audience engaged in something they otherwise wouldn't care about. And it's a subject he rrally wants to talk about.

[@DantesGrill]

@@BecomeTheKnight I mean, the problem there is that you're sacrificing genuineness for views. If you really don't have anything worthwhile to say about it but just use it for clicks your audience is going to get tired and leave because they see you as a click baiter or something. You gain quick views on that video maybe but end up losing in the longevity, compared to having a poorly performing video but an audience that still respect your opinion for future uploads. Talking about the kpop video of course, not yours.

[@garrettbryan2717]

I agree. Fin is just too deep in this YouTude stuff. He is basically hating on rock fans now. As someone who loves music he does not even seem to love music, especially rock. He just stirs the pot and makes me, as someone who loves music, hate him. Why listen to someone who does not respect you.

[@brandon_crow1291]

@@garrettbryan2717 his recent video about "rockism" really nailed that home. Dude really used Ronnie Radke and MGK as examples of that. Which with the Ronnie thing ignores not only some of the more personal and character issues people have with him but also just kinda gave a massive pass to the idea of over relying on backing tracks and computers for things that a person could actually do . And with MGK well that's just an obvious "what the fuck are you smoking" moment. The whole video just shut down valid criticisms and like I said was just gross contrarianism at best and rage baiting at worst. Though maybe a mixture of both. Either way he seriously missed the mark on a lot.

[@brandon_crow1291]

@@BecomeTheKnight I get what you're saying to a degree. Obviously you've gotta draw people in and work with KZbin's shitty algorithm. There's nothting inherently wrong with that at all. Like your video about guitar tone as you said had nothing to do with James. But it could stand to reason that in a video about guitar tone it's fair to have him as kinda a "face" of it. Dimebag would've made sense too cause they're both people think about when they think "guitar tone". They're tangentially related to the topic. But that's different to saying something as blatantly provocative (and outright wrong) as "Kpop is the new emo". That's a pretty clear "this'll get clicks cause it'll piss people off or make them think "what the fuck is this guy talking about?" so I'll use that." That would be like saying "ticket scalpers are actually really great." Maybe not exactly that but you get my point. There's a difference between playing the game on KZbin and bullshitting for views while acting genuine. Again in sure he's a chill dude, but in terms of KZbin and the content he makes what killed his channel is his own content and people kinda catching on to the amount of bullshit, industry sucking, and excuse making he's been doing. People got tired of it.🤷

[@Madchris8828]

I actually miss the hilarious bashing of dumb pop songs you used to do. But also think it's cool to see you analyze guitar playing and whether it's fake or not. Reviewing Metallica is cool too. Really a lot of your content I find enjoyable or entertaining, and you got me into Opeth which I love now. Weirdly for whatever reason YT just has stopped suggesting you to me. And that sucks. It's probably likely that unfortunately Finn is facing the BS of not sending notifications to his fans.

[@RevStickleback]

I think Finn's second channel was a mistake. I am sure it was meant to just be light hearted, but its entire content is him basically shitting on bands, genres, nationalities, interests etc that he doesn't personally like, basically trolling for clicks, and he never understood why this maybe isn't a great Idea.

[@slapbass8723]

Finn's second channel definitely wasn't a mistake it's better then his main channel if people take offense over a simple joke what Finn says he's only joking about at the beginning of his video then that's on them but honestly people have different opinions and I think we in the rock and metal etc scene just has to start realising this alot better

[@RevStickleback]

@@slapbass8723 There is a difference between joking and stating an opinion in a way you think is humorous. He also needs to grasp that things aren't 'objectively bad' just because he doesn't like them, and if one of his poor takes or bad assumptions is called out, doubling down on it isn't the best idea. There's a way to do criticism, and what he does on that second channel just isn't it.

[@RevStickleback]

@@slapbass8723 I would add that he doesn't just shit on bands, he shits on the fans of those bands too. One that springs to mind would be Babymetal. They are not a band for me, but he said that the only people who would like them are paedophiles. Even if you ignore the fact that many respected figures in metal like them, if you can't understand why that sort of 'joke' isn't going to bring a hard negative reaction, then social media probably isn't the best place for you. I have defended Finn on that channel numerous times, trying to explain his take isn't necessarily literal, but he doesn't learn from his mistakes, and doesn't grasp that some jokes should be kept within his small circle of viewers on twitch.

[@Nestorglass]

​@@RevStickleback i watch most of his videos and he can be really fun/educating to watch but sometimes his cynicism burns me out really bad. He also tends to turn on trends he previously wouldnt shut up about (like how he basically brought the whole "talking about nu metal gives you more views" upon himself by constantly claiming nu metal was back 2/3 years ago). Its also the constant feeling of him trying to be hip with gen z specifically that coming from a grown ass dude feels kinda awkward. Also sometimes his critiques of europeans just come off as gratuituous xenophobia.

[@RevStickleback]

@@Nestorglass He does always seem to bring up the idea of certain bands "not being what the cool kids were listening to" as if that matters if you are older than 14, and shouldn't really matter before then either. As for the Europeans thing, it just comes across as having some kind of bad experience there.

[@KONSACZ]

"Run out of ideas" His entire content always was rage baiting, how can you run "out of ideas" for such a broad content?

[@DantesGrill]

I think Rick is right about his "do what you're passionate about" approach though. You take what you're passionate about and if it has and audience (and with luck) you'll get views. Problem is that people seem to think that it's something that can go on forever and instead of venturing out and expand when they are at peak, they do when their viewers already started dropping. KZbinrs make weekly releases for multiple years straight. TV shows make maybe 12 releases per year for maybe three years before they end. There are a lot of KZbinrs out there that I don't want to end anytime soon, stuff that I've been watching for years. But KZbinrs need to realize that they aren't The Simpsons. Hate to say it, but if Finn feels like he can't support his family or his job isn't fulfilling then it's time to find a new one. Even if you're a KZbinr you're still a normal worker, and that's what normal workers do.

[@SebastianSkadisson]

Metal youtube is now at live venues again. Can't name any because it's forbidden to cross-promote in comments, but there's pretty popular live gig channels showing a ton of fresh, genious metal blood.

[@LokiTricksterG]

I watched a couple of Finn's videos and ran into two issues: 1. He seemed really negative and adversarial to many forms of music and their fanbases, to the point where it felt like he was looking down on it rather than someone speaking as a fan or trying to inform. 2. I wasn't really sure who his target audience was. He'd do a video on Mr. Bungle, then do a video on New Found Glory, but these two bands have completely different fanbases and appeal to completely different types of people. Mr. Bungle fans don't want to watch New Found Glory, and New Found Glory fans don't want to watch Mr. Bungle.

[@gernblanston2652]

Your second point is entirely the issue. People only want to watch crap that they already like regurgitated back at them and won't watch something that might actually make them take a look at something that they don't know or like.

[@BrianBower]

I like NFG and Mr. Bungle. I am maybe a weirdo haha.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

On point number two, I missed out on a lot of stuff from the 90s because I was a child and thus not just able to just buy all the rock and metal albums, and I'm from a non-English speaking country. So I can appreciate videos on bands I had not heard of. I happened to have heard of Mr. Bungle because of Faith No More but I could by happenstance never have heard of it. The concept that only Mr. Bungle fans will watch the Mr. Bungle video doesn't make much sense on face value. The actual factor is probably that after years of "gather round, kids - let me tell you about the good old days" videos, the younger generations got introduced into their music journey and got into Mr. Bungle via Faith No More. The students outgrew the teacher. Also, platforms like tiktok are preventing youtube channel renaissance by sniping off the demographic that would replace the older one.

[@shanewalton8888]

Problem is too many people are mistaking their hobbies for real jobs. YT is a hobby, plain and simple. Sure you can make a few bucks for a while, but unless you are also giving a tangible service, it will fail. BSing about Nu Metal is not a tangible service.

[@matmore10]

Tell that to Mr Beast...

[@kulisi]

Accept to those that are making millions of dollars. It's not a hobby any more that a newspaper, magazine, tv show. Supply and demand

[@AduderReviews]

I think it's a job. And that's what they're getting upset about. But most people have jobs that aren't fulfilling. If it's making them money putting out content that they're personally not that into, I don't really see the problem. Get your creative outlet from something else.

[@shanewalton8888]

@@AduderReviews I will concede that it is a job, but I wonder is it a wise decision as a full-time career. Trying to raise a family for the next twenty years just on your thoughts about punk and Metal doesn’t seem viable. At least Mike can turn to his band or giving guitar lessons if his video ideas ever dry up.

[@tengentoppa5819]

Do people really not use the subscription page on youtube? I Cant imagine browsing youtibe only using the main page.

[@CicconeRitchie1]

What we’re seeing has happened for many years in the entertainment industry. Things go out of fashion and people move on. KZbin is entertainment and content creators is entertainers. Totally agree with Finn on the subject of the internet wanting creators to be specialized. But it’s always been that way in entertainment. A sit com is a sit com, a drama series is a drama series. Thank about what would have happened if Friends shifted gears after seven years and all of a sudden the series was a social political drama series. Would be pretty weird and the internet is no different.

[@Deathworg1]

As far as Punk Rock MBA and metal, I personally stopped watching him when it became apparent that every single time metal would come up he'd resolutely shit all over metal fans in the most despicable way possible.

[@Vivi_9]

Take it in good humour dude, he's making fun of the attitude you just displayed in your comment

[@Deathworg1]

@@Vivi_9 No dude, I tried. I kept watching and kept watching until the 30th time I head him say that every single metalhead is a basement dwelling racist loser and I was like jeeez the first 15 times it was kinda funny but I even feel the hatred in his voice. He really despises metal fans.

[@Beckonor]

@@Deathworg1 Yes, thats why he gets so much backlash. A punk rock guy covering metal who makes underhanded slick comments about the audience he is reaching out to. He does it in jest but the constant slick comments gets old.

[@Vivi_9]

​@@Deathworg1 he doesn't hate ALL metal fans he just likes to mock the subculture, I'm a metalhead but I don't think there's any denying there are a significant number of metalheads who are gatekeeping losers that are also racist, I don't agree with everything he says but I do like that his whole vibe is just making fun of everyone rather than only focusing on specific fandoms, I think we need a little more "everything can be made fun of" attitudes in the world, it can ground us and make us less tribalistic if we have the ability to laugh at ourselves and the things we like

[@francoisdewit8073]

I think the issue is not so much his content but more that he comes across as insincere. You rarely knows when he is earnest and when he is satirical or tongue in cheek. Other than that he sens like a good guy

[@WeGachaMetal]

Many points here are valid. Writers, journalists and publicists of the metal genre have had this “dilemma” for years. I think the issue here is that youtube wants “instant” results, which is a slippery slope.

[@harveycooke9181]

Hey Mike. This was a fantastic video. Really sad to hear Finn talking negatively on his content, have always enjoyed the guy, hard to hear all of this. I just wanted to say as well that I genuinely enjoy all the content you make, love the reaction stuff, your tier lists, the production advice & your original music, just fantastic stuff Mike.

[@darkdudironaji]

I've got an idea for a second channel. Call it something like "Plus Signs" and just talk about songs from SSF and SSF (Saturday) that week that got plus signs. I personally don't watch your streams, because I'm not a fan of streaming in general. But if you broke out just the best parts, I'd definitely take the time to watch. And I know I'm not the only one.

[@Ryo7_7]

Definitely a good idea. 👍

[@daveataway1952]

I wouldn't mind including some minus signs aswell because hearing Mike ranting about bad songwriting/production is pretty entertaining aswell

[@darkdudironaji]

@@daveataway1952 That's for his third channel. Lol

[@blastradius7193]

The ad apocalypse was the abrupt end of KZbin. Im surprised y'all made it this far.

[@sole__doubt]

If comments are giving him legitimate panic attacks, then they must be right on target. Otherwise the comment would not have affected him in such a profound way.

[@QuincyKane]

It was really cool of you to make this video 👍🏻

[@quinchienpro-prietaire7409]

Simply because he fangirls screamo /scene / poppunk yet can’t even fathom that people like alternative or Indie

[@EncoreASMR]

Finn makes it too obvious he's concerned about business, marketing and sales. Music is not like sports, where statistics and numbers are far more important. Finn talks like me when I talk about soccer and F1, but it's different to music. A lot of music fans are more concerned about the philosophy and influence of their music. Oh and Finn does A LOT of tier lists, which I understand brings in views but it turns into a sports-style comparison contest. I enjoy watching Trash Theory (even though he doesn't talk about metal as much, which makes you wonder whether there's a gap in the market), who's had a lot of success (although I'm guessing metal is not as successful as other rock music). And as for some of the comments made to Finn, it partly stems from some of the political videos his wife made before she made them private. It's not that I agree with criticisms made of Finn and his wife, but they have been guilty of not reading the room. Oh and rock and metal is just not as popular as pop and rap music.

[@lilienkranz9006]

I may not agree with Finn on a number of his points, but i respect that he is honest and lowkey down to earth dude. Besides, i really love hardcore and Finn has immense knowledge of the genre and its culture.

[@burritopizzawhale2247]

I genuinely enjoy your content surrounding rock, metal, theory and the like. They have helped me immensely in my own music growth and there's a lot to be thankful for in your recent content. Lately tone has been an issue for me onstage and your content surrounding tone has been answering questions I've had for some time. I'll hopefully join Knight School when my finances get a bit better 🤘

[@bgmchrisc]

It's the natural way of anything creative. Bands tend to release albums with longer gaps as they move along, and fans aren't interested in new things anymore either. Writers don't always maintain their pace either. TV shows always reach a 'jump the shark' moment, or else fade away longer than they should. Ideas are ephemeral, and difficult, and no one who's creative can rely on having an unending stream of exciting new ones. I remember interviewing a very prolific artist and asking about just this. He said he didn't worry about it... and then promptly started taking longer to make new records that no longer did anything new. I've never had an audience for my creative work, so I don't have that pressure, and I've barely had any ideas in years. It's normal.

[@Tylervrooman]

By the way, Mike, I really liked the music and philosophy videos you've been doing. I know they don't ger the engagement or views, but they are great. Sincerely. Thanks from CA, Tyler-

[@BecomeTheKnight]

There'll be more.....eventually lol

[@crabbuckets7506]

People can tell when you are genuine or not. It's simple.

[@tomasjonsson7141]

Yeah and neither of thise 2 are and its easy to tell they are only in it for the money and sit and complain and whine all day

[@crabbuckets7506]

@@tomasjonsson7141 agreed 👍

[@Venusbluekites]

​@tomasjonsson7141 agreed. like if they're great friends on a personal level then that makes this video even weirder, it sounds like "go watch my friend pls" but hes speaking as if hes being objective and talking about facts.

[@blazingmonolith4323]

Bro its all tier lists now, and short docs about metal core and Nu metal. Bradley Hall is still going, but man theres only so much content one can make from a dying music genre.

[@vitnemec8365]

Hey, no one has inherent right to make living talking to the camera. If someone isn't happy doing with what they do, and they don't find the way to fix it, maybe it's time to change profession. It would't be so hard for you and Finn, you have skillsets for multiple other jobs. Problem might be the addiction to attention, of which other creators talk about. But man, this transformation of creative people into perpetual replicators of their own least creative moments is really a sad conclusion of late stage capitalism.

[@mathias8627]

You nailed it. Him and Finn (and most other metal KZbinrs) are admitted right wing leaning capitalists. The mantra of the right/capitalists is: get a job... Well go practice what you preach big boy, pull yourself up by your bootstraps

[@vitnemec8365]

@@mathias8627 Exactly. And meanwhile they are acting exactly like those whining entitled snowflakes they say they detest. You are an arrogant careless egotist and when someone points that out, you lose your shit and wonder how come not everyone loves every word you utter. I cannot imagine Sammy G, Scallon, Neely Music is Win, KDH or others acting this immature.

[@redpillgermany2162]

Maybe time to move on and get another job?

[@JayRamahi3810]

-RedPillGermany2162

[@alexanderthegreat-zh8rc]

The funniest part is that he sells a course on how to get successful on KZbin.

[@trashpacker4500]

Yeah I hope he backtracks on that, it’s giving dating coach

[@jankapaa3074]

What’s so funny about that? You think he hasn’t got successful on YT? Mate, the guy has released hundreds of videos which, as of yet, have made almost 120 million views. The PRMBA Subscriber Town would make the top 30 of US cities by population, ahead of the likes of Sacramento, Atlanta, Miami or NOLA. Sure, he might not be doing as fine now as he used to do, still, you have to put that into perspective. To borrow a phrase from a famous rapper, Finn’s biggest flops are many others’ greatest hits. On top of that, he’s made a truckload of money which allowed him to purchase a house in the not-so-cheap Seattle area and support his family on a really decent level. I think he may know a thing or two about being a successful KZbinr after all.

[@ChucksSEADnDEAD]

To be fair he's more trustworthy on that matter than the people selling those courses without actually having a successful channel.

[@trashpacker4500]

@@ChucksSEADnDEAD you’re right, I’m just not a fan of selling courses in this vein. It’s a little predatory by default. But I get where he’s coming from and respect the hustle

[@RanterInShades]

I just want to watch music content that has something to say. Both you and Finn serve that purpose in different ways that kind of balance each other out. Finn is more business minded while you are more music minded, and both are essential to the big picture discussion. But I've felt for the last couple or so years that Finn hasn't been leaning as hard into that, which is why I haven't been finding much of his videos as groundbreaking as they were when I first started watching him. His stuff's still generally good, but this is what I've felt for a while would make it better. It's kind of like with you and your reaction content, you're adding something that actually contributes to the discussion at hand which is what makes them more interesting than your typical reaction videos.

[@kennoz1785]

Been following Finn for years now, never seen your channel until today. SUBBED and I'm in, love the straight honesty. Hope to see both you guys be able to branch out and do more content you're truly driven to create. I only get invested in a handful of creators per subject matter and stay dedicated to them as long as they do to themselves. Lookforward to the future content!

[@BeatsAndMeats]

Audience Capture was the death of journalism. I wonder if the key is to start out covering an extremely wide range of topics? Glenn Fricker has made a whole career about covering topics that piss people off, and then he makes another video making fun of the people who he pissed off. And the more pissed off they get, the more he makes fun of them, the more other viewers watch those videos.

[@ChadAV69]

Because all he does is D ride trendy bands like Spiritbox and read wikipedia articles

[@P3rm4frost]

Easy answer: he mostly has the "slipknot Metallica five finger death punch" fan bases which are mostly just little teens and kids, which always push the videos into obnoxious numbers. Hard answers: he's been chasing the most common trend bands that everyone knows and gives them weird hot takes and definitely has no real glue about metal nor punk. And he's chases views, clicks (with clickbait) and clout. Stupid enough, those simpletons that still think nu metal is the greatest thing ever eat it all up.

[@punkloser1465]

Especially his "angry" thumbnails (which ik he is representing a fan base but mostly the clickbait stuff was why I stopped watching. Now I can't remember what video but I really enjoyed the videos where he talked about a band or like how this band got successful (or vise versa). It was informative and educational to those who liked the genre but doesn't know much about the band.

[@RB-oc7ti]

? Metallica is mostly ‘little teens and kids’?? Im not sure what you’re saying in your lengthy post, but it sounds like you have quite the unfounded bias?! I will say that Finn has an oversized positive opinion of lame punk pop bands (eg Blink 182) who write simplistic easily digested unoriginal music; and often cuts up other types of music that many others believe have much more substance…

[@redsr9990]

Gotta resist audience capture. Whiners are gonna whine no matter what. Half the negative comments are usually people that didn't even watch the whole video (if at all). As far as the algorithm, it definitely tries to decide what I want to watch, based on what type of stuff I have recently looked at. It actually makes me forget about channels for long periods of time, until I randomly decide to search their channel.

[@SINGHDASLAYA]

The problem with content creation is a wider issue than just the rock scene on KZbin. Gen Z (I'm 1st gen Gen Z) have really bad tiktok brain and are easily triggered. If content doesn't give them giant dopamine hits within a couple of seconds then they disengage from the content along with an opinion that might be taken as negative; even if said with good intentions set them off and they spew hate in the comments instead of rationalising what is said. Furthermore, the KZbin algorithm has been adjusted soo much over the years to where the content they target for people is something that has everyone trapped in the most specific echo chambers which is very volatile e.g. Taylor Swift releases a new hit pi... I mean new song and the comments are millions of girls telling us that she's the greatest thing since sliced bread and then the feed you'll get from youtube will either be "Taylor Swift is God" content or something that is seen as slightly negative on her and is trying to rage bait engagement out of people. I'd say KZbin had the perfect algorithm in 2015 but thanks to the censorship apocalypse from 2017 onwards it's made the platform a volatile minefield.

[@axeslinger8434]

A lot of this stuff whether intended or not, is rooted in nostalgia. Which is fun and great for a little while but then it eventually gets old. Especially for younger people who were 6 months old when Nookie came out. Everything has a shelf life and the problem is that there is unfortunately nothing new to add to the rock/metal conversation.

[@Verdoux007]

I guess the best strategy is to not have KZbin as your main income source. That way you can do what ever you want.

[@andrewtolson2566]

Rick Beato is extremely likable. Its his personality. Even when he dunks on something, there is something nice about it. Dont overlook likeability.

[@GNARK1LL420]

Hopefully Finn will invite you to his BBQ and introduce you to his friend Sugar Ray.

[@jarlnieminen4307]

Now imagine you were working a 9-5.

[@necroplastful]

I dissagree. Some creators are thriving, like The Metal Meltdown especially. But he mostly has the same gimmicks as Fantano so it works. But yeah, it seems like everything has been said to be honest.

[@Reece_Hart]

This is the main problem with youtube. Yourself and Finn and most other youtubers are stuck making videos you don't really have your hearts in because they'll get views. The stuff you actually want to make doesn't get the engagement or promotion mostly because of the algorithm. Honestly I am not really sure there's a way around it other than accepting the drop in numbers which when this is a career is a situation that sucks.

[@iamslav6158]

I’m in quite a few music Facebook groups and it’s honestly HORRID how against this man people are for no reason, it’s absurd, the things they spew simply because they think it’s so atrocious for him to talk about how a band makes money, or for having his own opinion is absurd, this man introduced me to so much music, kept me going down rabbit holes while I was sitting in the dark just trying to find things to do other than being in a negative headspace, I wish it was actively as easy as doing what he wants

[@TheEclecticBeard]

My guy, you hit so many nails on the head. The amount of content it seems to require and the amount of work channels put in. I've got over 20 years of experience in construction. It was nowhere close to the amount of work as what I put into youtube in the 4 years I did it full time (back in construction for a breather and because the views jumped off a cliff November year before last).

[@BecomeTheKnight]

Thank you man! I hope more people see the video. I think it's important to address. And I totally get ya with picking up work outside of YT again. I've been putting feelers out in a few different places for that myself.

[@basdeboer4150]

Nice one for Finn, great videos he is making. Got here through his channel. The blackbox that is the YT algorithm seems to dominate the views rather than people that follow your channel (i.e. they're just scrolling through the time line rather than using the list of new vids from their favourite channels)

[@necroticpoison]

Finn is a marketing and business pro, and the making content you want to make that's still watchable/consumable is still hard. That should go to show. I think maybe for those in younger positions who're not just wired up (to a similar-ish level as Finn) in terms of knowing clickability, but also fresh in terms of exploring the world and discovering and bringing new/novel things to the table (at least, new to those younger/same age as them). Maybe a part of the difficulty is when you're established, you can't just go from metal to pop/all round music. Obviously something like going to business wouldn't work, but neither would seemingly similar things. That's a big struggle/defeat feeling I imagine. - And yeah you're right they don't push your most niche vids to core aud., but that happens in stepped motion (ie) it serves it to 100 maybe, and sets the next amount based on ctr, and continues. So things that don't catch your core will not be pushed. And so you need to appeal to your core and the outside audience to get virality. Fostering a healthy core aud is important but it's like building a staircase--you'd need to start over if you want a different one (audience). And there's def the algo, and then the audience, but for the most part, the algo is the audience. Yes, yes, youtube works in its strict ways and there are certain things like the core aud testing that are gatekeeps, but if you understand the main gatekeeps, you're free to psychologise on your intended audience and get better and better. Again, insanely difficult with specific, old fanbases. Mr Beast is right tho, LHOHH, the algo *is* the audience. Also, youtube will, for what will very very likely be low-click vids, send it to fewer people in the initial stage. And it is fairly good at determining that, so, if vids don't get sent out there is a reason, sorry to say. YT has one of the best ML going for their algo on the planet, second to Tik Tok probably. Wish you all the best Mike, if you happen to read this. PS I think the metal/rock/guitar community dying/sliding downward is just a consequence of the fact that it really doesn't have anywhere near the level of continual threads or audience culture. Yes metal is tightly knit and one of the most passionate, and niche, on the planet. But it is also isolated and not growing really. Sure some bands push bounds but they're rare, really, and normally metal becomes half or less, or the band is fringe/unknown. There's only so much talk that can be done about Neural DSP, modern metal, old metal, etc. and there aren't currants which flow into broader, healthy areas. Metal YT is kind of just an affiliation of reaction, tone, review, making, and a common aud but not interconnection outside of metal/something sustainable that can flow in shape over time. Despite how connected metal YT is in its creators, behind the scenes. It'll get somewhere--it might just take a while, and not being so stuck with pure metal / current conception of metal.

[@mountbrocken]

You just said it all! People choose based on what’s in front of them. This is a VERY important statement. What’s been put on our plates and why?

[@BrainWasherAttendent]

…its the internet.

[@NobesBLO13]

It’s

[@DE-GEN-ART]

he turned his channel into a content mill i think thats what hurt his public image

[@beau5795]

I don’t listen to metal very much and a video from Finn popped up around 2019 and I became a fan because of his personality and insights. I had never heard hardcore before and became a fan of hardcore and metal after finding his videos at age 30. I’m wondering he would even pop up on my feed now randomly if what your saying aboht the algorithm is true

[@brynterranova]

Came here from Finn linking the video. Hit subscribe because you dunked on Marx.

[@mathias8627]

*spread misinformation about Marx

[@kaboose111]

Well, yeah, there's nothing exciting to say or do that the artists themsleves aren't already putting out.

[@kenfrederick6223]

Sea Of Tranquility, Classic Album Review, and Now Spinning Magazine are channels that are doing just fine. Maybe it's time to rethink your overall content.

[@TheFallen292]

When I was a kid in like 2005 I used to love going on KZbin and watching the most random things. I’d watch anything and everything. Now I barely use KZbin because one time I watched a video about nutrition and now it’s all that’s on my home feed, or I watched a movie analysis video and now it’s all that’s on my home feed.

[@MrDman21]

Mike without his 🥃 is like Bill Clinton without his thumb gestures. They just go together well. 😏

[@jussihamalainen7692]

YT keeps recommending me videos on the same boomer bands that I got sick of hearing about 25 years ago.

[@thiagopena3258]

Hey Mike, I’ve been asking a lot of people questions about pop culture, from KZbinrs to my family and friends and I think I’ll start off by asking you, what’s your favorite song by the band Sepultura?

[@nikolakrastev8880]

I like Finn but the reason why people dislike him is very clear and easy to see. Especially a few years ago his whole thing was just bashing metal and its fans while propping up rap as the best thing to ever happen to music with the biggest argument for that being look at how many spotify listeners they have. This is the exact reason why I refused to watch his rap videos because it got old pretty quick to just hear the same thing about rap>metal and if you disagree you are a basement dwelling elitist. Overall I think that his videos are quite entertaining and he does seem like a cool guy but the "devils advocate arc" wasn't it.

[@Eirik_Bloodaxe]

He wasn’t bashing metal and its fans. He was telling them that if they want metal to be popular again and succeed they need to make changes.

[@nikolakrastev8880]

@@Eirik_Bloodaxe while constantly bashing it. What you are saying isn't wrong but he was absolutely shitting on metal and it's fan base on pretty much every video

[@Nestorglass]

​@@Eirik_Bloodaxesuch useful and life changing advice, like "have attractive women listen to your music". The bar was already low but man.

[@jackielupo5943]

Crazy. I've watched and enjoyed Finn's content for years and this channel has never come up in suggestions. Added. Keep up the good work. Finn is smart and will figure it out.

[@CaloBrown]

When you said, "The audience getting older," is a big part of it. Getting jobs, having different tastes/opinions in music, going to college. I will agree with not looking at videos, even when getting a notification and having free time. Mostly, if it doesn't interest me, like this video has, then i just move on, and maybe I'll watch it later. For example, I just watched Finn's video on generations, I was curious enough to click on it, and I enjoyed it, at least enough to comment on it. If there is an answer to the audience vs. algorithm puzzle, I doubt it will be found anytime soon, and more people should realize that KZbinrs are living breathing people with emotions. But they dont.

[@davidpadgett4013]

Just start doing album reviews man. I would love to hear solid takes on full albums and what makes them great or not.

[@dbwatchet7292]

Finns the best . I sub and watch as long as he uploads.🎉❤

[@AngusJo]

Somehow I can't understand it when people report that they don't get videos shown. I hear that really often. I get every video shown in my subscription feed. Just like I receive a notification for every video when I have activated the bell. Does this perhaps have something to do with the country? I come from Germany. Do they use a different algorithm here?

[@nunyabizness5343]

Finn doesn't know we watch youtube on TV. KZbin is TV for so many people. Maybe that little nugget of reality might help his content direction. Yes, I have a remote, and I use it to select (or not) your newest videos.

[@18JR78]

I think the issue is that some people expect punk content, and this expectation attracts a specific scene to his videos, which could be where those negative comments originate. Perhaps he should consider rebranding or starting a new channel? Idk

[@lw3764]

Just letting you know this is the first time in a couple of months that youtube has put one of your videos in my feed. I'm subscribed, it's frustrating that I usually have to go to special effort to find videos from the people I'm subscribed to.

[@xtheyan]

Well.. I REALLY hope KZbin Metal isn't dying because it's kind of what I do 😂 But for real, I love Finn , he always supports me and gives me great advices 🤘🏻🔥

[@OfficialEvermore]

I make videos on music as a hobby. I'm not surprised by the decline in views and nasty comments. In my experience, I try my best to offer commentary because if I don't, it'll take a toll on my mental health. When I received a race comment a few months back, I knew this wasn't going to go over well. I feel like if Finn or anyone else brings their real authentic self to the content they produce I'd say forget the haters. Nevertheless, as a small content creator, i will agree that the algorithm is terrible, some people can be nasty and the copyright issues are exhausting. All in all, I appreciate listening to people who genuinely love music. I hope he continues to make videos. ❤️

[@Roadiedave]

People always want something new only to shit on any creator/band/movie/game/IP/etc. they love for doing anything different or anything new for not being the same enough. Now all we get is more of the same "content" we all hate because it's not what we want, but it is exactly what we asked for. KZbin designed their algorithm to mimic this behavior, so like, subscribe, leave a comment, and check out this week's sponsor Soylent Metallica in the links below.

[@kodyepidemic]

Imagine if KZbin just made a section in everyone’s Home page a list of new uploads from all the channels they subscribe to. What a concept.

[@user-fh6sl3km8q]

And it's interesting that people think Finn isn't evolving as content creator cos his topic hasn't changed for a while. I am guilty of clicking every new video of Finn talking about Nu Metal, because it is becoming increasingly funnier. His comedic delivery and timing never fail to impress me especially when he talks about Nu metal. I know it is inherently funny subject but name a single human being who is better at making fun of Nu metal. Also speaking of comedy, I want to make this point. What does Chris Rock talk about in every single special? Racial tension and difference between men and women. What does Jim Gaffigan talk about? Food. What does Bill Burr talk about? Downside of feminism. All the great comedian develop their chops concentrating on a few topics they are interested in. What do I want Finn to talk about? Nu Metal. I want him to have a Netflix special for an hour just talking about Nu metal I am sad that he has been unfulfilled about contents hes been making lately, but i want him to know that it still holds up in terms of artistic value in my book.

[@Ryo7_7]

Dude yes. I totally agree. Some people who are fans of the genre are not representative of the many who are musicians, well versed in many other subgenres and listen to other genres also. I would never let someone else's projection of their own problems effect me. However, those comments are usually easy to laugh at and make fun of but, I'm not nears a big any other yt channels.

[@DarthWinterMadness]

Just did what you suggested, and I'll do the same for you. You're a great guy too! I've been following you for years now, and you're still someone I really like listening to. Your approach often speaks to me. Not 100%, we can't agree on everything except one: To always be respectful of people. What you just did for Finn is amazing, we need more people like the both of you. Thank you for being a good person and cheers from France! 🍻

[@delix787]

How did nik nocturnal get to 1 million!?

[@bengreenbank]

He makes actual original content with his guitar playing. Much more sustainable business model than only doing super low effort react content (he does this too) or recycling the same videos about Metallica's guitar tone etc.. I don't even really like him but him but there's way more longevity in content that requires you to actually have a skill/talent

[@Nestorglass]

​@@bengreenbankand hopping into trends faster than the 1929 stock market crash

[@bengreenbank]

@@Nestorglass yes definitely that too

[@AlligatorArms]

The problem with his Indie Rock video was that you can’t make videos calling out rock & metal fans for gatekeeping & citing that as one of the reasons Rock music has fallen in the mainstream (which is true) and then turn around and make that video that basically gatekept what is arguably the most significant movement on the alternative scenes in the 2010’s, when you have a channel that sells itself on “alternative culture and music”. That placed big limitations on what he could talk about from the 2010’s, and it’s been established that 2020’s music isn’t an effective topic for his audience…don’t get me wrong, I love both his channels & watch nearly every video of his even if it’s about a topic that doesn’t interest me. But he’s kind of painted himself into a corner where his only option is to regurgitate the same stuff about old music for an aging audience that’s set upon its ways.

[@stangcobra592]

How many "Metal" and "Guitar" channel fans have no idea who this guy is and the only reason you watched is because he used a CLICKBAIT title that ended up in your feed? haha look in the mirror! 🤣

[@durpo856]

god so many creators on this app are just getting destroyed with how alienating the youtube experience is right now, props to you man for speaking up about this - finn and many others as well have finally started to majorly talk about this. idk at this point people might as well just strike youtube and not interact with it for like a day or some shit lolol