What Lore is ACTUALLY Needed from the FNAF Books?! | FNAF Theory

[@zaq12777]

I love that you use Kirby as an example of Canon because it's the most similar to the FNAF book problem. Kirby developers have stated that while most sub games might not be canon they do show Canonical things that could happen if the circumstances had line up. Also Kirby lore is just as complicated to dive into as FNAF so its fun

[@catbatrat1760]

I love how much Scott Salt RyeToast throws in frustration at Scott's wording being almost as convoluted as the lore itself! XD

[@Psychohalfbreed]

To be honest scott is using cannon an continuity properly in the context of storytelling and media cannon would be spider man being bitten by a spider and getting powers, continuity is spiderman being peter parker or miles Morales. The difference between cannon and continuity is generally cannon things are 1=1. where continuity is less about what is directly stated and more about what's between the lines generally the thematic structure of your piece of entertainment. The endoskeleton so to speak beneath the cannon exoskeleton

[@blazichaos7181]

@@Psychohalfbreed I remember matpat having a pretty good description between Cannonicity & continuity I think it one of the FNAF vids but BY GOD that doesn't exactly narrow it down much.

[@artbyphobia]

Hey I just wanted to say thank you so much. *I made a video on my tiktok account that the Silver Eyes Trilogy is all interconnected with Security Breach.* I'm not sure if you saw my video or not but I'm so happy that people are finally catching on. With the burntrap ending being almost the same, Not Charlie being Vanny/Vanessa's counterpart, references to Twisted Ones in the therapy tapes, *it's all making sense*

[@robinst-pierre9600]

When you think TikTok is safe, I'll let you cook. Just know that TikTok is a chinese cyberweapon.

[@artbyphobia]

@@robinst-pierre9600that’s a made up lie by western media.

[@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV]

The movies also mirror much of the silver eyes.

[@artbyphobia]

@@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV yes, and security breach too with afton and Vanessa

[@drlolzsilllyz]

@@BasicallyBaconSandvichIV i think in fnaf 2 movie we will see scenes in the twisted ones but made to fit with fnaf 2 such as clay giving pics to John i think of charile this in the movie could be vanny giving pics of afton maybe to mike after waking up giving more lore such as orgins and more sorry if said bad im kinda tired

[@s-f-p1102]

I think it’s also worth calling out that the mci happens in 1985 in the novel trilogy, since it is once again reestablished in into the pit, since Scott said that we can use fazbear frights to fill in gaps, that pretty much seals the deal for the original mci date tbh

[@mrhalfsaid1389]

Yeah, I was gonna say that this is likely relevant

[@reaper_is_unavailable]

The only problem is with the Insanity ending HRY name. We all know it's Henry but if you take a games only perspective, HRY is never said to be Henry or alluded to so there is always plausible deniability which is frankly frustrating at times.

[@maksiuko]

I just learned that I need RyeToast to make Kirby videos. Please! Let this be a reality in which we live in!

[@BoliVic96]

omg yes, I could not understand shit about pokemon but kirby??? I would listen to this man talk about kirby for 6 hours straight

[@Bigddalt]

Do you think that lefty could be a refurbished carnie? This is a very long shot, im talkin 100 yard football kick, but it's just some fun thoughts that could conjure up something in the community. If you look at burnt carnie's model, you can just barely see that his right eye is more withered. You may have to squint. But say that at that time his right eye got replaced because it was the most damaged of the two, after decades of collecting dust and rotting away, the untouched eye could have decayed to the point of becoming black. As Henry repared carnie to become lefty, the original eye may have stayed or been replaced with a new black eye for a unique touch. A more realistic approach could be the lefty's design is INSPIRED by his burnt orginal. The eye rotted eye i just mentioned could have inspired the black eye detail. One specific character of that I think could drive home this theory is the color. Burnt carnie is a muted brown with white char accents. But if you were to scrape all of burnt plastic off, you be left with a black tarnished metal. Notice that lefty is not solid black, but a metalic, gun metal black. I think it is possibe that lefty is either a repaired version of carnie, with it's new design based on the chared scraps of the original, or lefty was a completely different animatronic who's build was inspired by the remains of his counterpart. By the location of Fazer Blast and hint we see, I think that carnie was most likely a part of Fall Fest(most likely the 1970 event) if so, do you think it's possible that carnie was one of Henry's first animatronics. That was a whole decade before our first look at fredbears. Whether or not Fredbear's opened before 1983. I highly doubt that it was an establishment before 1970. I noticed that there is no sign of Freddy’s or Fredbear's on the poster. Which leads me to believe that this fall fest may have predated everything. The running theory is that the mediocre melodies were his first animatronics, made to rip off Freddy’s fame. But being that we see an animatronic a decade before that, that closely resembles one of his final animatronics. It really seems that carnie could be his first. Here's some food for thought. Henry has been deemed a copycat in the early timeline for the mediocre melodies. But if he made his first BEAR animatronic at a children's theme event in 1970, is he really the copycat? If William stole the idea and made Fredbear's, and Fredbear's became as big as it did. No one would bat an eye at a small carnival with a simple bear animatronic. I don't know if I like this idea, but I'm just throwing everything I got to see what sticks. Is it possible that William set the carnival on fire to one, preventing it from becoming more successful. And two, to take that idea and reuse it for himself. I don't think he was pure evil at this point, or really evil at all. But it's still just a thought. I don't really think that lefty is a remade carnie. I think it's possible that the design could have been inspired by the withered design. But I doubt that they put that much thought into a connection like that. I am pretty confident, though, that carnie was most likely the first and that Henry was never really the copycat. But more so, tried to reclaim the ideas stolen from him later on after William's fame.

[@jag-stang29]

i *think* (emphasis on think) that they covered this on their podcast but i don't know for sure

[@Jo---Jo]

Another thing to note is that in HW2 after you win the character models of Carnie and Lefty, when you pull them up on stage they are standing in the exact same position.

[@dumflame]

Well this definitely is a 100 yard football kick

[@Taro_Yanada]

I think something very important from the Silver Eyes trilpogy that you left out, is the useful characterization we get from the characters. It is from the TSE trilogy that we know things like Henry being overly depressed about his child's death and killing himself because of it. It is from TSE trilogy that we understand Elizabeth's Afton's psychology and... daddy issues. It's from TSE triogy that we get Afton's characterization and his perception of Springtrap, and his view of the MCI kids. And it is not imporant because we can shove it into the games, but because that characterization lines up with what we see in the games. Henry's suicidal tendencies and his grief, William's psychopathy and his theatrical and megalomaniac attitude when putting the Springbonnie suit on or becoming Springtrap, Elizabeth's constant praise and subjugation for William (Taken to an extreme with Scrapbaby), etc. Those are all things that this books don't introduce, but expand upon, and they are really worth mentioning.

[@Sock-Monster-Simian]

Scott is not wrong in separating canon and continuity. It is not incorrect English (this is the circus debacle all over again). Canon, in how he is using it, is just representing the rules that guide the universe; same rules, different stories, as you have said. Continuity is those rules occurring within a specific world. Hence the game "continuity" (probably) being a separate continuity from the books, as the books explain the canon--rules--of the world.

[@camwyn256]

I think the illusion disks work by vibrations of your eye, not your ears. Push on your eye and you'll see funny colors. The disks modulate a frequency to hit your eye, causing the blurring colored shapes, and your brain just fills in the gaps (as brains are known to do). So you don't hear the disks, but rather would feel the vibrations in your eyes. And, since air makes a terrible vibration medium, it would definitely have a limited range.

[@Vegan4Life4Ever]

😂

[@MusiciansRule07]

3 absolutely useful things from the Books: getting Purple Guy's name, the whole concept of Remnant, and The Mimic. It was painfully clear that Peepaw Afton was supposed to be the next step forward but the collective seething RAGE at the sight of the old fart after the neat resolution that FFPS/UCN provided shut that nonsense down real fast. Coming up with The Mimic in the books led to them being able to backpedal in the games, which was the correct decision, in my opinion.

[@Crystal-pro-2024]

Eh, I've allways seen the mimic as Scott just not telling sw the whole story, so sw realy thought they where bringing back arthritis man, but instead they where making the mimic.theres a part of the dawko interview where the head of sw, straight up admits Scott gave them stuff to put into the game and wouldn't tell them, and from the redit post and clithaphobia using the concept art design of the plex, we know tales started very early into sb's development. So early o have to wo der how much of it even still applies with the story sb ended up with

[@sleepylmguy9968]

I mean it’s really debatable if Afton/Burntrap is GONE-gone. Just like any series in fiction. If they WANT to bring up a character. They CAN bring back a character. You just need a good explanation. I mean heck look at Frieza. Died in DBZ came back in DBS. That just how it goes with some series.

[@catbatrat1760]

What's "FFPS/UCN"? Sorry, I don't know the acronyms... ^^;

[@Crystal-pro-2024]

@@catbatrat1760 ots pizzeria simulator and ultimate custom night

[@Crystal-pro-2024]

@@catbatrat1760 it's pizzeria simulator and ultimate custom night.

[@NotUlpoadingAnything]

I think Circus Baby being a stolen Charlie bot is supposed to somehow tie into the Fnaf World ending where Desk Man says, "My mind isn't right. I made something terrible. Her name is Baby." Then the lights go out and she announces the show is starting soon. The lights come bak up and it looks like Desk Man killed himself. This feels a lot like Henry creating the fourth Charlie bot, then coming to his senses and realizing how big a mistake it was then building the murderbot out of regret. Maybe game Circus Baby doesn't have Charlie's fake memories but it feels like there's supposed to be at least some sort of connection.

[@GideonWells]

Scott's definition of canon isn't wrong. It's just that there are like three definitions of canon. Your definition of canon = continuity is one of them and one that western nerd culture has adopted as the near universal meaning. Def 1/Example 1: Your Kirby example. Canon = continuity. The void fight is an official "what if" but not in continuity. Let's use Sonic the Hedgehog. Sonic 1 and Sonic Adventure 1 are canon to each other, but they aren't Canon to the Sonic movie. Def 2/Example 2: Going back to at least the 300 ADs and the First Council of Nicaea. Anything that is official, Scott's definition. Think Shakespeare. King Lear, Richard III, and Macbeth are all canon to each other but not in continuity. Sonic 1 and Nights into Dreams are canon with each other, but not in continuity, because the same people made them. Def 3: The hidden and most headache inducing one. There are also uses of "canon" to refer to the baseline needed to know examples of a genre or medium. If you were talking about the "Canon of retro platformers" then Mega Man, Super Mario Bros, Sonic, and Duck Tales would be in a "canon" but are neither in continuity with each other or from a shared official source. Painfully, sometimes they overlap. Take this video for example. * If you are arguing if the books are in continuity with the games or not? You are arguing if the books are Type 1 Canon. * Are the books officially from Scott or not? That's arguing Type 2 Canon. Which is hard to argue they aren't. * Are the books needed to understand the greater FNAF lore? That's Type 3 Canon. The FNaF books being canon or not is actually a Type 3 debate with some portions of the fandom trying to argue they can't be a Type 3 Canon if they aren't Type 1. With others in the fandom trying to use Scott arguing from a Type 2 perspective that they could be Type 1 to prove their merit as a Type 3.

[@ShesNervous]

Omg I purposely have been avoiding watching your content so as to not be subconsciously influenced and we are STILL uploading videos about the FNAF books one day apart.

[@4nastajia]

well this comment atleast probably introduced new people to you! introduced me at least xP

[@marymarvel]

As someone very into superhero comics, It’s complicated. To give a specific example, DC comics has a line of “elseworlds” stories. Elseworlds stories are stories that are not canon to the main timeline. We like to say “main continuity” referring to the main timeline and “out of continuity” for elseworlds stories. However, there are many times when the lines are blurred and they bleed over into eachother. There are characters from other continuities where the turn of events is very different that come through portals to the main continuity world (for instance, New 52 Huntress and Power Girl). So it can be complicated to know what is and is not canon for specific characters. But for the most part, what happens in other continuities is not canon to the main timeline. That’s where it gets confusing because many people see things like Injustice Superman and Wonder Woman and believe that canonically both Clark and Diana are brutal killers, when that goes entirely against their main continuity characterization (Diana is an ambassador of peace, Clark very rarely kills & never does when he’s written well). But for the most part you explained it well!! I just wanted an excuse to talk about comics :P I definitely think in the context of your theory it absolutely works because fnaf is something that is a lot more grounded & specific, so it makes sense that things in other continuities can parallel each other.

[@sutarikun]

Don't forget the Amalgam Comics continuity, where DC and Marvel both blended and crossed over!

[@birdmcturd1626]

Hang on- would a deaf person be immune to the illusion discs? I’ve never really thought about it but I guess they would. Damn,that was a big oversight on Henry’s part. A deaf person looks at Charlie and goes “that’s a robot”

[@the_godbodor7026]

Gotta say, I love the sudden Kirby Lore a few minutes into the video.

[@maceygarrett6368]

So if the illusion discs use sound vibrations to trick your mind into seeing stuff, what happens if someone is deaf and looks at an animatronic using the disc? Hearing impairments are very common disabilities so I'm surprised it hasn't been mentioned in the series yet. And as a deaf FNAF fan I look forward to the day Scott decides to show if it still works or not on a deaf person.

[@notimportant1659]

The thing about Scott is that he doesn't tell a story linearly, he tells stories that intertwine at certain events with certain ideals in mind then leaves the audience to fill the blanks. It's genius story telling and I have my own running theories such as Sammy being an actual character but not as a tangeble animatronic and the crying child, who I call Wilson, being the Nightmare from 4. Whether or not these are "canon" isn't up to actual lore but up to interpretation.

[@Sonicmid]

Nightmare is confirmed to be shadow Freddy

[@notimportant1659]

@@Sonicmid Where is this confirmed?

[@00SAGE]

With all do respect I don’t think Scott is as smart or as gifted as a writer as we want to think. There IS NO CLEAR Timeline in FNAF because it was NEVER PLANNED. The timeline was a complete afterthought! The games organically blew up and once the corporate dollars started flooding in he was forced to try to pull a properly formatted story out of his 🍑. The fact this man has given little to no context all these years appears to be a guy who is living a facade of a mysterious genius writer/story teller when in all actuality he just got lucky and was at least smart enough not to say anything

[@plushypuddy5902]

Listening to you try to explain how Scott uses canon makes me glad I'm a Tenchi Muyo fan. This is all old hat to me. Same characters, similar story beats, but different universes and interpretation of events.

[@sleepylmguy9968]

Damn I feel old. I haven’t seen Tenchi Muyu in a long time. Are they still making new entries for the series? The last one I remember watching. Is the one where they’re part of Space Police Force. The MC is part of a crew and travel on a big space ship/cruiser…and I think he gets linked to a Mech that he can control with his mind. I can’t for the freaking life of me remember the name.

[@charscreamAA]

Yo I zoned out and you started talking about kirby lore and I got wildly confused

[@Syndicate_LS]

Canon by definition means works blessed as being authentic tho? He is using it right. The example definitions refer to is the Shakespeare canon. So I mean he is using that term correctly it's just not how people want the word to be used. Thats why ive always pushed that specifying continuity is way more important over what is called canon, bc every single time he can just say yes bc it is as long as he says so. He can choose a fangame and talk it out with them and it can be considered canon if he so wanted. Its just part of a story he wants to tell. Theres no requirement of it being clean. Its just nice if it is

[@LiMe251]

But just because something is official and in the same Continuity doesn't mean it's canon, like the FNAF 4 Halloween Update or SL Custom Night.

[@Syndicate_LS]

@@LiMe251 correct. He can also arbitrarily claim anything is or isnt canon if he wants by the definition the same and it doesn't break that. To him it is not blessed as an authentic work part of the fnaf canon.

[@Syndicate_LS]

@@LiMe251 asking about continuity is infinitely more important though still. No matter what. We need to know what things he counts as authentic and part of the canon and story he wants to tell, and where it fits into a specific continuity

[@LiMe251]

@@Syndicate_LS I agree.

[@TheHaddonfieldRegistry]

Scott's use of canon is correct, it's the traditional defitinion. "a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine." Scott is Christian. Every book in the bible is canon, despite some books contradicting other books, meaning some books explain events incorrectly. That's how canon is taught to Christians, in school and in church. That is what canon means, and how it is applied in every area except geek fandom, where it's just become interchangable with "continuity" But Scott's comment makes complete sense if you just go off the proper definition of canon and not the improper slang definition used by people online.

[@Wizardjones69]

Why not say that is official media instead of "its canon"

[@rokblades3532]

The cats truely steal the show

[@mildlycornfield]

Looking at his apparent understanding of the terms 'canon' and 'continuity', I start to wonder if Scott has ever engaged with the Transformers fandom, since 'canon = official' is fairly close to what it means there. Everything ever officially published is 'canon', but not everything that's canon is 'in continuity' with each other. (It could also be comics, like Marvel, DC, etc.) Idk, coming from that fandom 'background' myself, I've never found Scott's use of the terms as confusing as many other people seem to.

[@NionzaNari]

Or he could have engaged with the Catholic Church, where canon = official has been a thing for almost 2000 years.

[@GJames-Legend101]

They should make a Five Nights At Freddy’s 2d animated series adaptation for adults/young adults and teens that combines lore elements from all the games (including spin off and fan games), books (including silver eyes trilogy and fazbear frights) and movies (including movies inspired by fnaf), while also adding and introducing new elements and stuff that can be both a surprise and help with any unresolved mysteries, I imagine it being in the animation/artstyle of either invincible or my adventures with Superman.

[@catbatrat1760]

Idk about it adapting fan stuff (lotta legal issues and whatnot), but I would totally be down for a FNAF cartoon! I wonder, though, should it be 2D animated or 3D? Personally, I prefer 2d since I just think it looks better, but I feel like 3d might be more fitting for a series centering around animatronics. After all, afaik, with 2d you can pretty much do whatever, but with 3d you have to stick to rigs or skeletons or whatever they're called, meaning that they'd probably move a lot more like animatronics. Also, I just think it would be interesting to see how artists would portray characters with such limited movement, especially if they adapted Security Breach, where the animatronics are much more like characters than just monsters. Speaking of which, I would LOVE to see them adapt Security Breach! Not only because I just like the characters and am interested in their story, but also because maybe having an animated series could allow them to tell a better story than they got to originally. (We all know that there were some... issues during development.)

[@jmurray1110]

Age demographics is too low we may be desensitised but there is sone disturbing shit that wouldn’t get past the censors

[@gameslayer3976]

I think the books are intrinsically linked with the games- and are set in the games universe like Scholastic said- but not in the same continuity. Fuhnaff beautifully illustrated some beliefs I’ve long held: the books give context to events that have already happened in the games or concepts that need to be understood better. There is an entire story in the Tales about a vr game developer creating a Springtrap AI and then infusing it with his own agony, causing it to become sentient and malicious and attempt to enter the physical world via an organic animatronic. There is also a story about how the Mimic1 AI takes over the Pizzaplex, turns people “evil”, manipulates the animatronics, and imbues people with split personalities- of characters of its choosing- via getting infected by playing VR or Arcade games. We also get multiple stories about how the Mimic was sent to the Pizza Place with a number of other advanced animatronics, dismantled them and the workers after receiving some bad input- and turning them into a tangle(🤨) of junk before being sealed behind a concrete wall. Later, the Mimic lures teenagers into the back rooms of the place via Walkie talkie and kills them before being trapped in a springlock suit. And finally we get a story about how the Pizzaplex has several functioning Springtrap Springlock suits in their theater, and an older teen gets springlocked inside after saving a few children from a child predator. The boy’s corpse then goes missing- but before that he also mentioned how he didn’t want to become like William Afton by being springlocked in a suit like his. Now compare that to most of the major debates in FNAF- why does Glitchtrap act like Mimic and Afton(maybe agony) etc. These are just some thoughts of mine

[@Sonicmid]

I’ll break it down for you Charlie trilogy : not Cannon Fazbear Fright: only stuff about connecting to the stitchwraith cannon Tales from the pizza Plex: 100% canon

[@gameslayer3976]

@@Sonicmid I’m aware. Technically all of it is “canon” but not all of it is in continuity. And I believe that the events of Tales happen in game- just not the same as the books one to one. That major plot lines carry over to the games, but may just happen in a different manner/location.

[@Sonicmid]

@@gameslayer3976 no dead ass everything in tails happens the same in the games I can see this argument from frights since into the pit game is definitely different from the actual story. You know 1985 Bonnie doesn’t that Oswald by the leg.

[@gameslayer3976]

@@Sonicmid but there already was a shipment of FNAF SD(the most advanced bots besides the Glamrocks) and one singular “creepy bot” before they event went down to the sinkhole. In the books the construction of the Pizzaplex was replaced with the renovation of the Pizza Place. Believing the Tales books to be in canon is harmless- unless they begin to contradict the events of the games, because they tell the same story and have the same result. They give you the reader great insight about the games and make the story really simple to understand- and even if they aren’t in the same continuity (which I’m not saying they aren’t but personally it isn’t necessary but I won’t be mad if it’s confirmed or denied) they give you answers to the questions the games present.

[@Takejiro24]

Wait, are the Mimic and the Mimic1 AI the same or share the same origin at least? From what you wrote, they sound like they do completely different things.

[@manfredi19]

As someone who got into fnaf in january, i have no clue. I watched Markplier's walkthoughs, beated 50/20 in ucn and 4/20 in fnaf1, read the silver eyes and i now have the first fazbear frights story. I'm kinda just preparing for the movie lore from all sources

[@Sonicmid]

They are just know Mci kids are molten Freddy Vengeful spirit is Andrew

[@jmurray1110]

Those are both unconfirmed and can be debated

[@LiMe251]

Hold on, wouldn't it be inaccurate to say Scott uses "Canon" to mean "Official", hasn't he said the FNAF 4 Halloween Update and the gameplay of Sister Location Custom Night are non-canon?

[@Wizardjones69]

Well, the halloween animatronics later became canon, so idk

[@lily-zc2eq]

thank you for uploading this on 4/20, i love getting ☁️🍃😮‍💨 and overthinking the fnaf lore

[@mollyd.9128]

One of the Fazbear Frights stories that I keep thinking about is Coming Home. Not only is it a sad, thoughtful story, but it's one of the few in the series that seems to draw pretty heavily from the games. It uses Susie (pairing her with Chica, which seems to track), and while it doesn't incorporate the game where William lures her with a promise of her dog being alive, it's pretty close to the story we know, what little of it we do know. It's a very good story and I recommend reading it, so no reading further if you don't want spoilers of any kind! I'll try to keep those to the main plot things I'd like to point out. The story involves Susie observing and trying to interact in the lives of her mother and sister after her death, then being "picked up" at her house by Chica every night until she (and her sister, who also sees Chica on the last night) are able to solve what needs to be solved. It's kind of left ambiguous how much Susie's sister is picking up on things before the last few nights, but it's definitely implied that she's aware of something happening, even if she doesn't know what. And it's definitely clear that Susie can affect her surroundings (leaving doors open, some forms of communication, etc). And the reason this sticks with me is because: 1) Someone close to one of the MCI kids was able to see and interact with Chica and Susie when Chica had no reasonable explanation for being at the house and could seemingly be interpreted as not *really* being there (in the sense that the animatronic probably did not walk there every night from Freddy's but was probably a manifestation of some kind), and 2) Doesn't Midnight Motorist have a scene with animatronic footprints outside a window at night? Who's to say that something similar isn't happening there? Book Chica could be heard walking on the porch and through the house. Why not leaving footprints? Why couldn't what happened to Susie's family happen to another family who lost a child in this way? I can think of several of the kids who might have had unfinished business to attend to. I don't really have a theory as to why or how or what it would mean. I just find it intriguing that one of the stories in the books that so directly connects back to one of the MCI kids (even using the name and dealing with the fallout of that event) also parallels a scene in one of the stranger mini-games in the games, with potential animatronics showing up outside a house at night with evidence left behind.

[@v1ct0rygames32]

Imo, yes. Books like the novel trilogy and Frights, while debatably (or in the case of the novels, 100% not) in the continuity of the games, do explain things like remnant, agony, etc. As well as the events between fnaf 6 and Help Wanted in the case of Frights. Tales shows the events leading up to Security Breach and explains who patient 46 is and (introduces and) explains Mimic as well as Glitchtrap / Burntrap. Overall, while I can concur that it's stupid to lock important lore behind a medium that some (for whatever reason) refuse to purchase, they are crucial to understand the games.

[@Sonicmid]

OK I respect that but theoretically, how the hell was Scott supposed to explain that emotion was the strongest thing in the Fnaf universe How supposed to explain the zero point field Also, only fright, stitchwraith stuff is in the games the rest is irrelevant eveything in tales is canon tho

[@Alkeeros]

I do not have much to say here. I do think sometimes a writer has a cool idea but no way to connect it to the plot of their existing story, and I feel like the books are a chance for Scott to do that. "Yeah, technically, each living animatronic should probably have a soul in it (until we later get AI), but also I want to tell a story in which a person's limbs are replaced with trash or they get eaten from the inside by small figurines, so I guess that sort of exists. And if I later figure out how to add those sorts of details back into the games, no one can stop me."

[@NionzaNari]

Scott's definition of canon is actually quite a lot more traditional than the one you are using.

[@tympestbooks1727]

I think there's something interesting to poke at with regard to what order the Charliebots were made in, and it may all be down to the illusion disks being introduced in the second book. But, as I recall, Henry cried over the original Ella doll, poured his grief into it, until it felt alive and he thought that his Charlie was haunting it and maybe he could bring her back. Then came the toddler Charliebot, a simple robot that was itself little more than a doll but one full of love and grief, and people disbelieving him over it and his wife leaving him and taking their son because Henry was pouring everything into this mad plan to try and revive the child he lost instead of being there for the one he still had. Which lead to the anger, because he had driven everyone away and felt abandoned, a more complicated robot but one that still needed the illusion disks, a robot full of rage and pain. He could not make that one work though, it wasn't right somehow, but he couldn't tear it apart either because it was still sort of Charlie to his mind, so he strapped it down and left it to suffer. Built another robot, more complex and smaller, she could eat, she could play with other children, and she didn't need the illusion disks any more. His daughter could be a child for a time, but childhood can only last so long and a robot cannot properly grow up. So he started work on the next one, one that might be able to last a little longer, how much could a child change once she hit her teens? But this was, I think, the point where Henry's grief caught up with him and the facade really started to crack, where he couldn't keep convincing himself that it was all ok. Maybe this is where the books' version of the MCI happened, I don't know for sure, but this teen Charliebot soaked up Henry's worries and guilt and all the little morose bits that he couldn't help lingering on. She could eat. She could learn organically. She could even bleed if you cut her. She could be brave where Henry couldn't be. And she didn't need the illusion disks. Psudo fanfic explanation aside, I'm pretty sure that the toddler Charliebot came first, then the adult one who would eventually become Circus Baby, both of which had the illusion disks, and then kid Charliebot and teen Charliebot came after with quite a lot of upgrades that meant the illusion disks weren't needed anymore. I say that this is likely dependent on the illusion disks being introduced in the second book because Charlie and her friends all seem to be affected by the disks in notably adverse ways, nausea and dizziness and panic kinds of stuff. But there's no sign of that in their childhood memories and teen Charliebot doesn't seem to have that effect on anyone.

[@ferrot6211]

I LOVE the use of Terreria music in the video, keep up the great theorizing my friend. :)

[@thegreatcornholio9611]

As someone who’s been a fan of FNAF for awhile, as well as the COD Zombies original timeline, I have to admit that people in the FNAF fandom should definitely take notes from the COD zombies community and how people found out certain cyphers and storyline beats that evolved and developed over time. I do think the books (FF and TFTP) have more information that’s relevant (not canon, relevant) that people tend to over look over opinions rather than actual problem solving. Not to discredit people, but I do thinks a bit frustrating that there’s so little discussions about the books when there’s a lot to glean from them, as well as broadening a storyline that would get completely stale and boring if not for adding mystery and more science fiction elements.

[@someonenamedsomeone9497]

I think you should have included the whole part about Henry filling the Charlie bots with his emotions, as that ties into a lot about how remnant works, which I believe is expanded upon in the Fazbear’s Frights book and Dr Phineas.

[@yabaymartinez6437]

I may be overthinking this, but if Charlie's appearance is made using the illusion disks, how does that explain everyone else seeing her as a teen even if they have never met her before? It doesn't make sense on how everyone could perceive her as looking the same when peoples minds will fill in the blanks with what makes the most sense at the time. Also, great video Rye!

[@AceDestro]

3:30 hol up, I zoned out and suddenly bro is talking about Kirby lore. I have never felt more lost & confused XD

[@camwyn256]

6:03 Hey, Rye. Question about how the sausage is made. Did you script this scene intending to do a zoom on your face, or is that something you only thought to do after in editing?

[@yuugienjoyer]

gundam is another great example of a series with multiple continuities

[@Alphasnowbordergirl]

I think the books gets you an idea of where the series are goi g. The books are seperate canon and cannot be taken word for word as certain details are changed, but can give you hints

[@Cross_Corp64]

Personally I think the way I handle the FNAF books would be that they tell a story of their own. The Silver Eyes Trilogy gave us characters such as Henry, Charlie, and William to understand their characters and see how they are executed in games. But characters such as Carlton, Michael Brooks, Twisted Ones, and Charlie bots are their own concepts that could fill in the role where Michael and BV never existed meaning the Puppet was never built, so we get The Silver Eyes Trilogy. And we’ll learn concepts such as remnant, springlocks, etc. It fits the big bill to make the Novel Trilogy to be its own story. Frights and Tales are more of this Anthology continuity where they have variants of the games existing in their continuity, but Frights and Tales are more like the Goosebumps books because they can have wacky things in their books, but they also develop more on remnant, agony, The Pizzaplex lore, and especially how the Mimic works in their own version. I feel like Games’ Mimic has a different story perspective from the books where I think the books are supposed to make him feel more as an original character. I kinda treat Frights and Tales like Star Wars Legends, where the Star Wars Legends books acknowledge most of George Lucas’s Star Wars movies and expand upon the lore of what could’ve been canon Star Wars (if only George didn’t sell Lucasfilm to Disney). But instead they get brushed off for the new Star Wars to be part of the OG and Prequels story, but the Legends books are still acceptable to understand the Star Wars lore. So I treat Frights and Tales as some sort of tool for the games’ continuity and see what I get from these kinds of books. And before the Interactive Novels come out, I have speculations that they would be our one-shot for being part of the Games’ continuity. Overall, I love the concept of NovelClues. And I wonder if you believe in FrightsClues and TalesClues. Keep up the good work 👍

[@CottonCandySharks]

9:15 My friend, I keep hearing you say that Sammy exists, but in the final book they clunkily describe that Sammy DOES NOT EXIST. Sammy is the "real" Charlie, who Afton took and killed. Our MC, who we know as Charlie, is actually the rabbit plush real Charlie loved. The plush was left with Henry, and he put the plush into the Charlie bot. So Sammy doesn't exist, Charlie bot is looking for real Charlie.

[@bathilra5364]

the thing is with multiple universes wordin of canon can ve tricky which is why scott uses canon how he does

[@LuxuriousLenay]

I'm glad this video was so recent 😂 I was so mad when I watched the movie because I didn't know who Max, Abby and the other random characters were. I only knew the lore of the video games. I never read the books. 😂

[@YouTubeChannel-ru8ed]

13:16 wait wait, ok so either Susie went into Foxy(not to mention that the telling foxy to go get a kid has call backs to foxy go go go) or the kid who possesses foxy needed help from Susie which is interesting if you apply it to the games because foxy and Chica don’t really have much connection

[@NotUlpoadingAnything]

I think, at least in the book, Susie's remnant from Chica was transfered into Funtime Foxy when William injected the remnant.

[@jmurray1110]

The kids souls aren’t shears corralted to the games Cassidy for example is Bonnie in the books and golden freddy is a kid called Micheal Also there are like 5 kids over all continuities that possess that bear

[@YouTubeChannel-ru8ed]

@@jmurray1110 Tru, I try not to use the books correlation too much because it’s a semi reimagining (imo ofc) of the story that Scott is making for the games after they’ve come out. The games and the books have different kids possessing different animatronics because of different reasons from what I’ve picked up from hearing about the books. I haven’t read them so I could be missing something. I’m just throwing out a possibility of Susie not possessing Chica based off what was said. Also the spirits get mixed up later on anyway so it doesn’t matter too much if I’m not missing something

[@YouTubeChannel-ru8ed]

@@NotUlpoadingAnything that could be true, I mean it would make sense in a way because Elizabeth is in Baby, Ballora is a recreation of Mrs.Afton (imo or someone close to William), Freddy could be like a mix of kids due to Bon Bon so I wouldn’t be surprised if Susie is in Funtime Foxy also I wonder if the personalities of each kid could match up, the personalities based off what we’ve seen even if they are limited

[@ethbeatthem4836]

Hey Rye, going throw a long comment here because I decided to look into videos and phrasing and wording in the books and here something I can connect to something that might be hinted as coming soon. William Character have been hard to defined, what makes him tick, we know what he becomes thats to parallel Williams in the books and movies but does the books, even the movie hint at his reasoning, and not surprising anyone it secretly does in a complex way, and there characters that are double parallels, the fact I'm saying that make me sound like a mad man but it's hard talking about Fazbear Frights stories and sounding sane. *cough ballpit cough* But I can say the best reason is simply one that not hard to see happen to someone in the normal word as William was part of the Victim turn Abuser cycle before he broke into the Monstrous Man we see him. Take the double parallel of Hudson, well many see him as just a Micheal parallel he's more, he's a Micheal and William parallel showing use the reader Micheal decent into madness and William tale into madness as Hudson was a victim of abusive parents like Micheal but different as his came from a step parent, Hudson also hate kids and wouldn't mind tormenting them through phrasing that ends before he speak his dark desires, Hudson also a man that killed his mom and step parent in a fire because he was aiming for the knife to end his misery. Micheal always seem like the son stuck in his terrible father shadow and William going through the same but ending up being a bigger monster. The Original Novel version of the Sliver Eyes also lines in characters heads like Caron's description believe William to be a Petty Tyrant, someone who never had any power but once he got his small amounts of power he goes mad with power and uses it in any way he can. William also say phrases in the Novels and the Movies that kind of feel like he projecting terrible thinks that got him to be submissive in order to gain control over the dead kids, "Your Week, Your Nothing" type lines, it was even a scrap line in the SB Teasers. William Afton likely started off his childhood as a Victim and an outcast, then he got some control and used it in the same way that power was used against him, only difference was that he BROKE mentally as he wasn't getting his way, what he believe he was owed for living a terrible childhood, stuck using "His Brilliance" one kids entertainment, stuck parenting not 1 but 3 kids, stuck playing second place to Henry and his achievement, stuck being in the Rabbit costume the sidekick to the main star, stuck with circus theme designs and not having anything he worked approved without Henry's help. He built that bunker and had plans to do terrible things as he wanted someway to get revenge on someone, on Henry, on these annoying Kids. Sad thing is Micheal almost ended up like his Dad if he didn't see the Monster his dad became, a Murder, a Kidnapper, a Blackmailer (base on Fazbear Inc lack of care), an Abuser, an Arsonist, a man refusing to die and happy with souls of his victims unknowingly keeping him alive. Long but Videos like from CathuresLabs, M.R.Springs, Ozone and many more lead to me kind of building this Idea of Afton. "William Afton, Started out like any kid, but grew up the outcast of his Family and his pears, spiteful he believed the world owed him the best Life after getting away and living through such pain, he found love quickly and started a small robotic company that will be doing the best things known to science. But Reality sinks in, he was stuck helping carnival and stage shows, working with Fazbear and their list of acquired characters, ok maybe he can climb the ladder and have complete control over these guys, maybe that the life he deserve? No as his partner in crime Henry was the Favourite and without Henry's help he wouldn't have gotten approval for his designs, the restaurant Idea he had, the Character he wanted to used, Henry Great Great Great. His family better with less kids, a healthy wife and no complaining sons. Maybe he can still rise and become the face of all of this, be the golden man Fazbear needed. Fallfest, great that again, new Mimicking Software by Henry, new Location by Henry, more Kids complaining, and William perfect life being thrown through loops, it be better if Henry was gone, if he could get rid of him, maybe he doesn't have to hate his own refection if he, no HENRY burn it all down. Everything Henry fault, his bad marriage, his kids sensitive feelings, the robots faults, it's all can be Henry fault. Just one fire, 1 or 2 kidnappings, maybe even a murder? All Henry, and with Henry good name ruin that leave William with everything right? Henry will know what it feel to lose everything he build for taking what should be William perfect life away from him. Just 1 spark, 1 mistake leading to him and the start of Henry downfall will be William uprising." Thats how you make a Villain. "In William mind Henry the Villain, in his mind the Kids are monstrous animals, in his Mind Micheal a puppet that never works, in his mind he the one the deserve more, eternal life now that something only William Afton should have. Fazbear entertainment should bow down to him, Kids should fear him, anyone in his way should be gone in the most painful, no most agonizing ways possible." Thats how a Villain becomes a Monster. Thank you if you like this writing of Afton.

[@sutarikun]

After hearing Rye going over Scott's wording on Canon vs Continuity I'm wondering if he was influences by the way the mysterious in the When They Cry (Higurashi/Umineko) series work, more the Umineko versions, where an event happened and a character is trying to figure out how and there is an answer but we're presented with a bunch of different fallible versions of how it happened. That... Might be helpful to my thoughts.

[@shirshobanerjee7751]

I was not expecting a Kirby star allies mention but I welcome the surprise

[@syweb2]

Very cool video. You have once again given me cat envy... oh, and also brought up some cool lore discussion I guess /j 1:43 *composed of. Comprise isn't used in the past-tense, you would say "each comprising three short stories".

[@robxholicfoxyfan8552]

What we found and Bunny Call seem to be very important William was an abuse victim backstories. What We Found's main protag was abused and killed his mom and stepdad in a fire but also had mental health issues from his original dad. He laso cannot come to terms with what he had done except in very small snippets. And Springtrap never moves once in the story. Not only that, but regardless of if we are Mike in FNaF 3, having tue minigmaes and two.springtrap hallucinations could still be both a Mike coping and William coping with the crimes of both of them. Another thing is that Bunny Call has a disgruntled father of kids the exact same age order as the Aftons, with a yellow rabbit. All with the father Bob and another father mentioning the prank of getting the Bunny Call was making him feel guilty because both of them had harsh/bad fathers themselves and wanted to break the cycle. And with the Fallfest Fire, potentially springlock failure in the Silver Eyes, and how pathetic and unconfident William is overall in the books and movie and just killing kids for his main crimes, and calling Mike's death by him in Fnaf 6 "Bittersweet but fitting" and being remorseful in his eyes when he stabs Vanessa in the movie... It does all seem to line up with how he could have been abused and also bullied by kids his age, and because he felt pathetic without Springbonnie to hide in or an advantage, and would go so far to implant himself in the fused animatronics if it meant his undead body could have a powerful vessel... It just makes sense. It would also make sense with the narcissistic angle, except with William as the child of an actual narcissist, developing his own narcissistic traits then having Elizabeth also inherit the toxic traits from him as well. A history of mental illness and not breaking the cycle. And honestly becoming even worse each time.

[@memers066]

At 1:17 I thought he was going to say that he was going to take that cork board and shove it up someone (probably Scott's) but. But just using slightly different terminology. Idk. But whenever I hear someone trying to shove something, that is where my mind goes.

[@TheVoidBuster]

Did not expect to see Kirby lore used as an example in a fnaf lore video.

[@catbatrat1760]

Is... Is Monty's claw in the background doing that gesture where if you look at it, the person making it gets to slap you? Because if so... well played, Montgomery Gator. Well played.

[@raysandrarexxia941]

Henry's name IS in the games: UCN, Wiliam's screaming in the OMC room.

[@Taff3ta_]

I never thought I'd need a kirby lore analogy to fnaf lore until now

[@CarisCarr-p5o]

I think Matpat might come out of retirement for that title😅

[@pinknblackproductions]

My theory is that the novels tell us the "laws of physics" of the FNAF world like remnant. The "this is how it could have happened" like i think the 6 dead kids in the pit book is to confirm that Afton killed 6 kids overall

[@DuneTheKaiju]

Not the fnaf cookbook having lore☠️

[@torismith9360]

Me over here watching the Glitch trap virus having ravaged Matpat for years and now watching you, Johnfuhnaff, and ID'S slowly losing your minds and just sitting here like "yeah that tracks"

[@anthonysaylor8120]

0:57 Nope, already off. We got Henry's name in the Insanity Ending because of the filename shown onscreen for the audio.

[@Vegan4Life4Ever]

It only said Hry not Henry

[@supermannygamer2003]

3:27 I swear, if they'll yellow and red butterfly was behind all the fnaf lore, I would be running for my life

[@TheHamburgerOfHamburgers]

i’m actually collecting the books, ive collected the silver eyes series (and the graphic novels) and some of the fazbear frights, but its still not complete. 😢

[@florianricquart4114]

I don't know if I'm correct (because the canon/continuity debate is at least confusing), but could "continuity" be **simplified** into "timeline" or "story" (the Silver Eyes trilogy tells one story, the games, at least up until 6/UCN, tells another, so they are two different continuities), while "canon" could be **simplified** into "rules of the universe" (like, injecting remnant into mechanical creations some sort of free will, we learn that from the Silver Eyes trilogy. However, it is still true in the games's continuity, as evidenced by the Funtimes hatching a plot to escape Afton Robotics in Sister Location) I'm specifically using "simplified", to more or less try to give an easier distinction between the two. I don't know if they can be simplified as that, but from what I understand, it's the best comparison I can think of.

[@mysiklp2509]

Seems like Michael dying in the scooper gives pretty good evidence that he’s the guard in any game with the hallucinations, at the very least the ghost reaching out with the “it’s me” imagery l

[@vincenthall5908]

Just going to throw out there- when Scott said the books are canon, I thought it was clear he meant that they’re canon to themselves. Like, in a lot of fandoms with multiple adaptations, we say things like “book canon” and “movie canon”, etc. So I thought it was pretty clear thats what he meant.

[@vincenthall5908]

I paused your video to type this, and it looks like you used the word “continuity” in the way many fandoms use “canon”. So I think he’s just using the word in the way many fandoms do.

[@NotFeikNeim]

couldn't it be William is Henry in the books and vice versa? would fix many times their stories seem to overlap/switch. Charlie would essentially be the Crying Child

[@Dlp_Toon]

14:30 one piece mentioned

[@positivebiscuit2348]

is it possible that midnight motorist is about a kid getting kidnapped by a twisted animatronic

[@LiMe251]

TwistedMM?

[@raikojanes5972]

never expected to see Kirby in a fnaf video

[@camwyn256]

All of it, yet none of it. Just how Scott wanted

[@djsombra7245]

Seeing Kirby lore here makes me happy

[@Morecheese_]

Hearing Kirby used as a metaphor in a fnaf video made my day

[@Nuggetlover96]

I'll just say this... I thought people were exaggerating when they said the books were poorly written... just this past weekend I was at BAM and they had most of the FNAF books. Out of curiosity I picked up "Into the Pit" and read a few pages (didnt end up buying it)... and as a former creative writing major I fucking cringed so hard. They are VERY cut and dry with their writing, blandly describing things, and spouting exposition in a very poor manner. I'm kinda glad there's people like you and GT that suffer through these books so I don't have to 😅.

[@loganentertainment1814]

If we took every FNAF book with a grain of salt, we wouldn’t have enough sat make it any better, which isn’t far off to the convoluted lore of FNAF. XD Edit: I still love the books, flaws and all.

[@LukiKruki]

Scott Cawthon games, Steel Wool games, Silver Eyes trilogy, FNAF movie trilogy, they all retell the same story wiith focus on different things. Scott Cawthon games are obviously the basic. Steel Wool games are in the same continuity as Scott Cawthon games, they are its full expansion yet still telling retelling same story in different way, giving you clues to what really happend in Scott Cawthon games. Silver Eyes Trilogy and FNAF movie trilogy on the other hand are meant to give you clues to what happend in Scott Cawthon games, tell you something the others couldn't tell. To show you more directly than other books how Scott Cawthon games story goes.

[@Sonicmid]

OK guys to keep it brief here the books canonicity Charlie trilogy : not canon at all this is the one where you actually need parallels Fazbear fright: only the stuff about and involving the stitchwraith is canon Everything else can go Tales from the pizza Plex: This is 1000% canon I do not want to hear it.

[@gaminganimators7000]

Not a good theorist then. We should all listen to counterpoints, ignoring other theories just makes us stagnant

[@docrilas]

I don't think that Stitchline is in the games because remnant doesn't work like in the games

[@Sonicmid]

@@gaminganimators7000 what the fuck are you talking about?

[@Sonicmid]

@@docrilas remnant works in multiple different ways

[@docrilas]

@@Sonicmid no,Dr Talbert injects remnant in Eleanor

[@YuriTheChaosLord]

I find the idea of Scott vs Dictionary so funny XD

[@anhurtorrez]

Something that has been confusing me for a long time now, is the graphic novels different or should I say did they added stuff to it from the original books which I have read but not the graphic novels.

[@lourdespachla6516]

THEORY: MONTY WAS ALWAYS A VIOLENT GUY, THE MIMIC JUST MADE HIM MORE VIOLENT.

[@00SAGE]

With all do respect I don’t think Scott is as smart or as gifted as a writer as we want to think. There IS NO CLEAR Timeline in FNAF because it was NEVER PLANNED. The timeline was a complete afterthought! The games organically blew up and once the corporate dollars started flooding in he was forced to try to pull a properly formatted story out of his 🍑. The fact this man has given little to no context all these years appears to be a guy who is living a facade of a mysterious genius writer/story teller when in all actuality he just got lucky and was at least smart enough not to say anything

[@Wizardjones69]

I woudnt be surprised if scott doesnt have a timeline

[@v1ru5thekillaclown]

Games are one universe, books a separate universe from the games, and the movies a separate universe from the books and games. It literally can not be easier to understand. This is something we have known, as far as the books and games, since the books came out. They are all canon, they are just not in the same universe. Think of the various Batman comics. Same deal as those comics. Maybe I'm just autistic enough to understand that. Full Metal Spectrum, baby!

[@Oreo-kv4gc]

Fnaf has multiple Separate individual different au worlds Main Canon original game au world main lore story Book au world fnaf Movie au World fnaf There literally 3 william from 3 different au world Main canon original game au william Book au william dave miller Movie au william Steve Raglan

[@Wizardjones69]

Dont forget the fanverse

[@salvatoreferrara3701]

One question of the silver eyes is , where the hell is Charlie's brother?

[@tylerthekid9108]

Some people would also call the fnaf novels a fnaf au

[@Flugel_Halogen]

I hate the books. They tore the Fandom in half and added so much stuff we didn't need, they changed the lore to the point it just sucks. I don't like the mimic either

[@jmurray1110]

And they were crow barred in at the expense of the game character Baby got a lobotomy between games to become a grovelling pet, Charlie was crammed into the puppet despite the obvious crying child connections and Henry took the final word when that honour was destined for Micheal Old Willy while less direct got a contradictory backstory and a lot of character inconsistencies

[@UniqueName19]

more kirby breakdowns pls!

[@pigdude6323]

A great way to look at canon vs continuity is Fortnite, I kid you not. It's made to be the center of the omniverse which is a level above the multiverse. The Omniverse contains all multiverses which contains the different universes in a specific media.

[@thatonemusicalboy7041]

Please make a kirby lore timeline I beg of you

[@MaddoxCooper-kj8ys]

Can you do a fazbear fright time line please

[@KingBlizzardWizard]

This is more of a nit pick of how you said it but wouldn’t it come off smoother if you said two different universe following the same set of rules. In the full breakdown video I feel that you did do a better job on explaining this so I hope not too many people are confused by this short.

[@jessedemps]

I got a Bendy and The Ink Machine fan song playlist and 1 for FNAF and Poppy Playtime. I hope you got Spotify.

[@MazariaNeedsNap]

KIRBY :DDD Good video and literary analysis!👍

[@shelliblossom8953]

truthfully i think the books are less real stories and more of a way to show canon ideas

[@insectostrich4407]

I gave up after the books got into sci fi and became way too wacky, the games not showing any of the interesting story ideas, security breach failing and the Fnaf movie being held back by a PG-13 rating among other things. I’m sorry for being so negative, but Fnaf has lost identity and it’s just not fun anymore.😔

[@banobobot]

Banger thumbnail

[@mr.e3123]

i wonder if you can make a timeline out of the books alone

[@bigguy6269]

listening to this while playing terraria and i thought i was going insane hearing the wrong music lmao

[@aromaladyellie]

I think this is kinda why the newer games aren't as like, enjoyable from a lore standpoint to me. They're trying very hard to make the games in the same continuity as the books.