What Made George Floyd? | Glenn Loury, John McWhorter & Ian Rowe | The Glenn Show

[@NM-qo6cd]

I am amazed how Glenn can provide steel man arguments/counterpoints to avoid an echo chamber especially when he disagrees with the counterpoints. Honesty & integrity all the way through for this outstanding professor. @CNN @MSNBC @FOX please take notes...

[@TrillEverything]

He pisses me off consistently, but nobody in America can describe the oppositional view point of the black community as well as Glenn. Nobody! Period!

[@brianmeen2158]

Glenn is the man!

[@russellharvey7096]

Amen! But it's probably too late for CNN, MSNBC & FOX. They are calcified and doomed to irrelevance.

[@abbaeben6409]

Absolutely!

[@dparamful]

You forgot courage and intellectual honesty. Great intellect really.

[@child_of_God0921]

I was initially drawn to Glenn back in 2015 because of his near-flawless ability to elucidate the arguments those he disagrees with, often better than the people who hold those views themselves. So much of the discussion around these issues ends up being unproductive because people don't understand the arguments of the other side. Almost never the case with Glenn. Great discussion.

[@George-vf7ss]

Ditto

[@sarahg2653]

Yeah, it's almost like a superpower of his, lol. Glenn has integrity. It just shines through.

[@russellharvey7096]

Yes. He knows "How to Have Impossible Conversations."

[@jones2277]

he's the king of the steel man.

[@svenm7264]

@@russellharvey7096 that's a great book btw. Lindsay and Boghossian ftw.

[@bromack3]

If you're older than 30 and still having problems with the police, the police are not the problem... you are.

[@nickoneeach4720]

Thank you! Seems like a very rational point to me.

[@caseybrown4360]

And someone gets it!!

[@ciscornBIG]

A simple point well made.

[@sandrastewart7544]

and how do you explain Amadou Diallo

[@caseybrown4360]

@@sandrastewart7544 ummm..people make mistakes. Look…in 2020 there were 3 million recorded police interactions in the US. There were 850,000 police officers. Out of all those interactions and officers there were 9 unarmed black men shot by police and 23 unarmed white men shot by police in 2020. That’s one “mistake” for every 100,000 interactions. I don’t have any opinion on Amadou Diallo as I was unaware of that case until now. That for sure doesn’t make me think that this was a racially motivated incident nor does it prove anything about police. I will dare say that police work in NYC is probably very dangerous and stressful like it is in any large city.

[@Orlin_does_stuff]

Only a few episodes of Glenn and John, and I find myself addicted to this channel. I accidentally heard John McWorter in a brilliant discussion with Dr. Jordan Peterson, and was completely amazed by his erudition and style. Mr. Glenn Loury is the perfect host. Very calm, ready to hear different opinions. Thank you, gentlemen for the intellectual deli!

[@thomasc9036]

Modern black culture lacks shame. The culture disdains shame and promotes too much pleasure seeking. Name a culture that is universally disdained by the world like the modern American black culture.

[@bonniespeck]

Marck Abraham, whose national study found the graduation rate for Black males stands at 59%. Start here with getting them through high school. I don’t buy into poverty causes crime. Asian and Jewish communities are poorer in NYC but far less crime.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

My understanding is that high schools have lowered their standards about as far as they can to accommodate losers and lowering them even further to accommodate blacks is simply a bridge too far.

[@TrillEverything]

Taking two groups with ancient 4000 year old cultures, and using them as a comparison for African Americans shows astounding ignorance of the African American condition. African American "sub" culture is in its infancy. Redlining & Blockbusting existed until the early 1980s. Then the crack epidemic hit those neighborhoods. Truthfully, black communities have NEVER had an opportunity to thrive. The only solutions has been TO LEAVE the community, which Glenn and John have done. Ian is Caribbean and at least came to these communities to help. The only solution is to disband "The Black Community" just as Jewish Ghettos, Little Italy's, China Towns & German Towns have all been disbanded. Blacks must become Individuals ONLY. The SYSTEM (whatever that is) will never support/allow thriving "black" communities. NEVER!

[@mrmixitup6128]

@@TrillEverything Oh but the black population have ancient cultures as well as behavior proclivities shaped by 100's of thousands of years of evolution. Zero history of "thriving" in any epoch.

[@TrillEverything]

@@bwhere45 What? How do you divorce Welfare Policy from "The System"? Welfare Policy is 100% "The System! Black America does not see Right or Left with concern to racism. We know better! What does it benefit white democrats or White republicans if Blacks turn themselves into a super power? If TRULY listen to Glenn Loury, he is almost identical to Louis Farrakhan. Glenn want to create Supreme Highly Brilliant blacks who can not only compete with, but beat whites and Asians in the corporate marketplace. There is very little difference. Neither Farrakhan nor Glenn want to lean on White People for success

[@TrillEverything]

@@mrmixitup6128 black "Americans" speak and behave just like the whites they were ORIGINALLY raised around when they came to this country in the 1600-mid 1800s.

[@sarahg2653]

I love listening to Glenn. He is particularly impressive when steelmanning the opposition. Your mind is fascinating, Glenn. And your integrity always shines through.

[@dadadrew]

This is the way a public discussion should take place. Substantive, reasonable and candid. Thank you!

[@Mr_Fairdale]

Yeah the goal should be to create less George Floyds. Not deify them.

[@otarimuradishvili5540]

Yup in fact deifying instead fixing its what partially led to many more people like floyd becoming the way they did.

[@burnt_owl]

Great conversation! Looking forward to the full episode with Ian Rowe

[@russellharvey7096]

I think now only available on Substack?

[@fantastipotomus]

I really appreciate the intelligence, wisdom and compassion on display in this discussion.

[@endlessfeast]

Compassion for what? For me I'm hearing the same accuses for why the black community is in the Situation that it's in. We Lack Accountability as a people we need to stop playing the victim game and get busy.

[@dranderson6071]

Damn I love listening to intelligent, honest men. As always appreciate you guys. New middle man Ian is a great addition

[@dranderson6071]

My take before getting too much into the video. George was a career criminal. And much more than petty crimes. If he hadn't resisted arrest he might still be alive. Did the cops handle it perfectly? No. Did Floyd give them much of a chance? No. Should any have been convicted? No. When we limit police power we in turn put their lives in more danger. All my opinion but I always listen to reason.

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

@@dranderson6071 not only that, but we think it's fairly certain that neither of these men involved in the arrest were homosexuals.

[@robertbarr6954]

I enjoyed the diversity at the table but don't believe there is a middle. it's what works and what doesn't.

[@fsilber330]

Often black women do better than black men in education, jobs, etc., because there's less oppositional defiance disorder. A male may be cultured from other males on the street to believe that listening to and following instruction (a key part of being a good school pupil and a good employee) amounts to a humiliating abandonment of masculinity in favor of female-like submissiveness.

[@slickrick8046]

@failber - Women often do better than men (in general regardless of race) because of Affirmative Action, the educational system has been geared to favor females, and practically all of the social services goes towards females.

[@jeaninge7616]

I agree with Ian’s understanding and critique of family dynamics and the influence this has on individuals in the same family and of the same parents.

[@skipfluck4299]

Holding a gun to a pregnant woman’s stomach, very much makes you a monster.

[@spaceorbust]

right. not sure why john thinks he was a decent human.

[@bobkaiser8782]

I spent half of my life in the Twin Cities. The last 4 years of it as a white minority in a predominantly black, lower/working class area of N Mpls. In that 4 year period I was pulled over & detained at gun point 4 times only to be released with a minor traffic ticket. Mpls on the whole has a long history of abusing civic authority from the legislators on down to the street cops. This is not, nor has ever been a matter of race. It's all about authority

[@henrylicious]

Exactly. Look at who hires the police these metro areas. It always funnels back to the city council and mayor's of these cities.

[@russellharvey7096]

At gun point?? Wow. I've never heard of a cop drawing a gun on someone in a traffic stop without being provoked.

[@bobkaiser8782]

@@russellharvey7096 Each time, I was told I fit the description of a suspect. Once was a robbery. Another, indecent exposure. One officer, after I asked why the need for artillery, informed me that a 30-something white dude driving an old BMW thru the hood is either buying or selling drugs. At least he was honest.

[@jerseyimperial]

@@bobkaiser8782 I've had similar experiences. I had a loaded gun pressed against the side of my head while an undercover Jersey City cop screamed at me that he'd shoot. I was driving/moving a Porsche that had an expired temp tag which they were CONVINCED was stolen. It wasn't. I produced the title and was released. No apology was offered. 😂. Also countless "stop and frisk" scenarios in 05' when I lived in Bushwick near Brownsville. "What are you doing out here?" ...I live here. Have a little weed on you? Spend the night in jail. Oh, and I'm white.

[@Brian-os9qj]

… and this is not the only place geographically, that has the same story of authoritarian abuse by ‘civil servants’, justifying their jobs or acting out personal frustrations. As in police shooting anywhere, each situation needs understood on its own merits.

[@Mark-hc8ek]

I was watching Family Feud recently, a long-running game show now mostly watched by non-whites, and the question posed to one of the black families was, "What things can go wrong at a family reunion?" The responses from this middle-class family shocked me, but I realized how different the life experiences of black people really are from the rest of America. They gave answers like, the police show up, a gun goes off, grandpa is arrested, a fight breaks out, junior passes out. It was an eye opener.

[@mstrailertrash058]

George Floyd died of Fentanyl overdose. The symptoms he exhibited, shouting, "I can't breathe!" and such are of "cardiopulmonary arrest and death" that are the most common symptoms of mixing Fentanyl with other drugs (he had a large amount of methamphetamine in his body as well). The Hennepin County Medical Examined said that there was no damage to Floyd's trachea and no evidence of asphyxiation and if he hadn't seen the video and if Floyd had Ben found in his home or on the street in that condition the conclusion would've been unambiguously of overdose as cause of deaths - but medical examiners are also under pressure to be woke

[@juanaboynkin1196]

Unfortunately, there is no room for the truth in this argument.

[@heilamessy]

true. corrupt media turned a druggie criminal into a martyr.

[@phillipivy9780]

Pretty sure he ingested it because the cops arrived

[@purdysanchez]

@deenz martin because the medical examiner said it.

[@purdysanchez]

@@deenzmartin6695, you're responding to a comment you didn't read?

[@BS-gj5ot]

Another great discussion. Thanks to all of you for being voices of reason.

[@sarahg2653]

Is there an episode with both John and Ian? Really enjoy Ian.

[@dawnemile4974]

George Floyd sure looked like he had access to a good gym and money to own a vehicle and maintain it. He could at least work as a mover or some other job that requires physical strength. There was no need to turn to crime to survive.

[@curtisloftis6003]

Glenn Loury is the man.

[@matthewbilich9979]

Excellent discussion!

[@michaeltudda8462]

Mr. Glenn, you need to come to Vermont and give a lecture.

[@kobe42085]

There is something, John, between being a hero and a monster. Do better.

[@PikeBishop1]

Congratulations to George for being two years sober.

[@otarimuradishvili5540]

That shows he was seeking change... unfortunately relapses happened

[@PikeBishop1]

@@otarimuradishvili5540 He was seeking change for the fake bills he was trying to pass, I agree.

[@otarimuradishvili5540]

@PikeBishop1 not quite. He was seeking change before he relapsed again. After that yes. Fake money stuff happened...though I gotta ask, did he know it was fake bill? I mean would he risk at a store where he was a regular customer?

[@PikeBishop1]

​@@otarimuradishvili5540 "He was seeking change before he relapsed again" - you do understand that EVERY single sh1t stain that gets their comeuppance has that said about them, right? You could make a 10 hour compilation of "he was just turning his life around" "he was a good kid" etc etc. Truth is he got himself kilt by swallowing a lethal dose of fenty. Worse things happen to much better people everyday and you hear nothing about them. By the way, my initial comment was sarcasm/mockery. He was sober for two years because he had been dead that long at the time of my original posting it.

[@otarimuradishvili5540]

@PikeBishop1 ah I see sarcasm okay. Amd just so you know... NO. he was a good kid won't work here. More like got his own issues like all. And please stop acting like I'm defending floyd. He even didn't see himself as a hero either, he was more of a self hating person who'd drive himself up the wall that instead of turning his life around instead himself rolling on streets in drugs. (BTW he didn't know it was Fentanyl, yes drugs yes but not Specifically Fentanyl which changes little).... So I think on one thing you two would agree, he wasn't a hero.

[@Brian-os9qj]

Thx Glen, John and guest. Honest insightful covering of a pivotal social anti-icon.

[@chrisb1805]

George Floyd had some things hard but also had a handful of blessings. From Wiki: Floyd was born on October 14, 1973, in Fayetteville, North Carolina, to George Perry and Larcenia "Cissy" Jones Floyd. He had four siblings. When he was two, after Floyd's parents separated, his mother moved with the children to the Cuney Homes public housing,[6][17][18] known as the Bricks, in Houston's Third Ward, a historically African-American neighborhood. Floyd was called Perry as a child, but also Big Floyd; being over six feet (183 cm) tall in middle school, he saw sports as a vehicle for improving his life. Floyd attended Ryan Middle School and graduated from Yates High School in 1993. While at Yates, he was co-captain of the basketball team playing as a power forward. He was also on the football team as a tight end, and in 1992, his team went to the Texas state championships. The first of his siblings to go to college, Floyd attended South Florida Community College for two years on a football scholarship, and also played on the basketball team. He transferred to Texas A&M University-Kingsville in 1995, where he also played basketball before dropping out. I think a point Ian made early on is, Floyd was a wronged. Everyone agrees. But don't make him into a hero. Pick some, and there are a lot, of black people that should be look up to an honored. Not people like George Floyd.

[@lilamayoral1031]

The most Ironic thing is that is Survive Texas and didn't survive Minnesota.. and that police was a jerk to everyone when people started coming to talked about bad experience they have with Chauvin .. they were whites..

[@g.rosger4696]

Many poor people do not commit crimes. We are our choices. Making excuses and blaming is ridiculous; he was a career criminal/thug and died of an overdose.

[@Oakleylaurie]

Compared to the hypothetical sibling, he may have experienced a trauma early in life that the sibling didn't, may have been younger and more emotionally vulnerable when parent was incarcerated, may have had learning difficulties, the sibling may have benefitted from a supportive relationship with an adult that he lacked, may have been treated differently by parents (being scapegoat in the family whereas sibling was golden child), so many variables could come into play.

[@tomasandrew9354]

🎯🎯🎯 Bang on. Exactly what I was saying to myself as I watched this. 👏👏

[@johns.7297]

Behavior genetics? Most variation among siblings is due to the environment outside the home.

[@robertbentley3589]

Says who?

[@johns.7297]

@@robertbentley3589 Robert Plomin

[@zeekdafreak1]

You can pull yourself up from your boot straps by spending 20 years in the army

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

The larger the situation and the controlling structure is…..the more difficult it is to apply individuated solutions to situations like George Floyd. The sociologists did studies quite awhile ago…..that showed the optimum size of a well functioning country was about 7 million people. Any larger than that started inducing complications and complexities that seemingly defied solutions. Where are we today….50 times that size !

[@Bronxguyanese]

Simply. Liberalism killed George Floyd.

[@darrenmiller6927]

What's better than listening to three brilliant black man on utube? Lowrey and McWhorter are two them. I know where my next hour will go, lol. Actually I'm not a racist, I love brliance in all colors.

[@jones2277]

On this rare occasion, i agree with John.

[@Ramiiam]

A: George got addicted to drugs. The sister didn't.

[@russellharvey7096]

Q: But why did he get addicted? And why didn't the sister?

[@atolliver91]

If you don’t have a hypothetical or theory… then things happen as they will…

[@velmanevarez2263]

Is there a stress (regarding black folks) on “entrepreneurship” because the STEM fields are too hard for black folks? Why always “entrepreneurship” and getting involved in politics for that matter. Why? Entrepreneurship doesn’t always mean millions of dollars.

[@dangerjones6]

McWhorter's liberal blind spots are starting the get painful to hear, I feel like he knows the answers to his questions but isn't brave enough to acknowledge them because it would , make him persona non grata with the Park Slope Brooklyn crowd. On the other hand Glenn's positions and straw-man arguments, always on point as always!

[@janinedalbey2448]

I like the line " what did George's sister do that George didn't do" but it seems like all families regardless of race seem to have that type of familiy setting. At least in the 70s and 80s when I was younger.

[@newmannewmanz7110]

Always blame others

[@bryanb30]

The Siblings in reality are part of the problem🤔 perhaps 🤨.

[@stp479]

Isn't the answer largely liberal policy and uniparty led offshoring of jobs and with it the agency only derived from gainful employment?

[@lilamayoral1031]

The lockdown was one of the conditions..

[@bryanb30]

@8:44 like that one One does not condone the procedures used to isolate and secure Mr. Floyd but brutality does not ring true. That stupid hold is used how many times per year up to that incident. Black guys are much stronger then your average man but he never seemed to exhibit physical agitation that would call for such tactics. Note 📝 most Big individuals are aware of physical perception and will go out of the way to avoid violent acts that would call for violent restraint unless totally unstable. If any real Men were around would they not suggest the police utilize an alternative method instead of filming and gawking. Many just wanted to live out Do The Right Thing it seems and make an excuse to unleash evil upon the world. Armed and dangerous perhaps calls for physical intervention but true wisdom would devise a much less contentious solution. Biblically crime has consequences Matthew 26:52 ESV Then Jesus said to him, “Put your sword back into its place. For all who take the sword will perish by the sword. Once this was universally understood! It’s that simple!

[@Platinumsmithwellness]

I appreciate his opinion and coining the acronym FREE; but let’s replace the R that stands for religion with an R for reason.

[@russellharvey7096]

Reason can never replace what religion gives to many people: a meaning beyond one's own self. (Also, religion cannot replace what reason gives to many people.)

[@nillehessy]

when i look up up into the sky all i see is these figures hands tied and mouths muzzled and when i look around or online or on tv or a paper i see the same

[@Sneaky-Sneaky]

You blame the system if you think about people as groups….if you think about people as individuals you blame the individual…..and the US is more or less based on the individual …. and I can say just from my own experience that most of the constructive things that happen occur at the individual level. So I would say when you are working on some solution to help a group of people…..think about the solution in terms of how it would work at the individual level and all the details that includes….

[@JosephHization]

I turn on a live broadcast of a police officer with his knee on the neck of a handcuffed suspect!? I kept hear thesuspect say hecould not breath?! A vietnam war vet. I knew he was going to die, because the policer kept his knee where he would die!? Flashbacks!? I would have shot the officer!? To stop him from killing the suspect. I have done worse!? It was not about hisskin colorit was murder. I know how to kill. Sure enough the man died. I wasso angry that some one brought back my hate and memories. It was his fault!? But, it was on tv. In the bush, I could nothave done it any better...murder during time of war.

[@bedcech]

You can’t consider what happened to Floyd horrible and never happen again, and hold the view of taking agency for oneself. Floyd and Floyd alone was responsible for his own death, that cop did an adequate enough job in that situation, more than adequate. Floyd’s weight was more a problem than that cop. Until you see that, you’ll never be allowed to take personal agency. I didn’t make the rules, unfortunately as well as you can’t break them.

[@jausti2]

Nope. The murderous thug cop who was convicted of murder is responsible. Stop making excuses. It’s sick and pathetic

[@brent_theabsurditysim7864]

@@jausti2 I hope you get everything you want, good and hard🙂

[@NineInchTyrone]

Glenn could be a millionaire like Kendi

[@russellharvey7096]

Yeah, if he weren't so reasonable.

[@presidentpotato222]

Uhmm you were sooooo wrong … hahahahahahaha

[@JosephHization]

From there Yougoslavia, Libya, Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq and Pakistan, Lebanon, solomonie drone strike.

[@JosephHization]

Killed 200 russian in syria.i called in the F18...

[@virtualpilgrim8645]

We need to look at the situation for black people as honestly as possible. Not saying that any of you are liars but let's face it, every culture around the world except, in Africa, doesn't like blacks. Black people are at the bottom of the social hierarchy. Of course, there are individuals who can rise above it, but those individuals are high IQ and very exceptional such as you 3 gentlemen. When speaking of averages, we know that black people simply are swimming upstream in mixed societies.

[@Pasta-B1FBA]

Only the zombies

[@NineInchTyrone]

Was Chauvin a monster?

[@puresynergyflo]

No, he was using a police authorized procedure to distribute weight on a suspect to prevent them from getting up. It has no impact on breathing. Yes, he and the officers discussed turning him on his side to avoid excited delirium but it was likely too late due to too much drugs and the distraction of the agitated crowd who didn’t know better. He’s probably seen a lot of ugly things on the beat and his disillusionment was likely mistaken for disinterest in Floyd’s condition or worse, thought to be malice and intentional. Floyd killed himself when he ingested those drugs. And Chauvin was thrown to the mob hoping to appease them.

[@russellharvey7096]

@@puresynergyflo Maybe not a "monster" (which is a word we use when we don't want to understand someone's behavior), but why was the hold continued for 8.5 minutes? What was Chauvin waiting for?

[@puresynergyflo]

@@russellharvey7096 he was waiting for the paramedics he called due to Floyd’s distress. The perp refused to stay in the car saying he couldn’t breathe at that time as well. He’s a big guy and others have faked distress in order to be able to have a better situation with a chance of escape. He was on the ground because that’s where he said he wanted to go. Chauvin was just making sure he didn’t go anywhere else. I’m surprised after all this time and all the video that was made available, people still believe lies that Floyd was a victim. $20 billion in damages to mostly minority communities across this country along with a dozen or so deaths and even more assaults on innocents. Go watch the documentary called Paint the Wall Black for the right response to this blm madness when it happened back in 2020.

[@russellharvey7096]

@@puresynergyflo Thanks. But in L.A., all the areas targeted were non-minority. (The rioters learned a lesson from the '92 riots, when they tore up their own neighborhoods.)

[@puresynergyflo]

@@russellharvey7096 and that makes it better? They didn’t learn jack squat. They just brought the ghetto to everyone else. Destroying instead of building up. But I recall seeing several Asian businesses in Santa Monica that were destroyed but I guess they’re not the right kind of minority, right? From Compton & Inglewood to Laguna & Pacific Palisades, they’re all part of our home we call America. I get equally angry when people try to destroy our main streets, Wall Street, and our capitol. I expect the same protection on all the MLK parkways as I do on Rodeo and Constitution Avenue. I want people to argue from reason and not from tribalism whether that’s skin color or political party. Rioting solves nothing but is only a precursor to war and there’s always just a 50/50 chance that things get solved there after a lot of unnecessary blood is unfortunately spilled. Many will regret running with the mob but only after they find themselves 20 or so feet past the edge of a cliff like wily coyote. But then again, in a victim mentality world, there’s always someone else to blame so maybe not. No one has learned a damn thing.

[@zeekdafreak1]

Join the military

[@JosephHization]

I won by K.O

[@presidentpotato222]

Ooppseeey

[@prschuster]

I'm so used to Candace Owens bringing up George Floyd's criminal background vs BLM's tendency to lionize him, that it's refreshing to hear some semblance of nuance to this whole thing.