What Makes A Shoto Character? Who Are They!? History & Discussion For Street Fighter 5

[@VesperArcade]

Thanks AMKidd for joining Us! You guys can find him at www.twitch.tv/amkidd

[@shadowwolfkano]

A miserable pile of Hadoukens. But enough talk. Have at you!

[@lsthree6996]

This is the type of topic you talk about after smoking a blunt.

[@cardsharpHS]

I thought you would have noted a bit more of the early history. In SFII (World Warrior), the only real reason Ken existed was to have a mirror match available with Ryu in 2P games because back then both players could not pick the same character. And just like in SFI, Ryu and Ken were absolutely identical - save for Ken’s kick button throw (not too much more than a cosmetic difference). Capcom only started to differentiate between Ryu and Ken gameplay-wise from Champion Edition onwards (reason being that with that game you could now play proper mirrors, so Ken would be redundant if the pair weren’t differentiated slightly).

[@alexlane9099]

Mir pointed out the differences in Ryu & Ken is from Street Fighter II and onward the main difference is speed the other is in special moves and back throw only special was the same is the fireball until Street Fighter II Turbo.

[@similaritiesendhere]

Wrong. If Capcom just wanted mirror matches, they could've just added 2nd costumes and allowed for mirror matches with every character. Ken was part of the lore by SF2.

[@alexlane9099]

In Street Fighter 1 there was only Ryu and another Ryu with a different color pallet and from that different color pallet Ken was born. Like the glitches red fireball and then we get a flaming fireball.

[@geoffreytasker2097]

Based on the definition given for why sakura and kage are shotos one can argue that sagat is a shoto too. He has the same gameplan and in lore he didn't develop the the tiger uppercut until AFTER he got hit with the metsu shoryu and attempted to copy it

[@Hiken_Bakuzan]

> with the metsu shoryu i hate that retcon

[@bfFAN221]

@@Hiken_Bakuzan Why?

[@Hiken_Bakuzan]

@@bfFAN221 i personally feel like it undervalues Ryu and to an extend, Sagat Before he just beat Sagat clean, now with it being a Satsui no Hado tantrum, it makes Ryu look weak and cheap, and then makes Sagat's frustration and his following quest pretty vain since it wasnt a really worthy and strong opponent, it was just an asspull, specially since afterwards Sagat comes to realize what the Satsui no Hado is in itself, which drives his obsesion against his rival even lower (he should seek to beat the Satsui no Hado instead, whoever wields it, and not Ryu, since the Satsui is what beat him, not Ryu)

[@bfFAN221]

@@Hiken_Bakuzan Ah, oke, understandable :v

[@geoffreytasker2097]

@@Hiken_Bakuzan while i do agree with your opinion metsu or not he still developed it as a copy of the shoryuken. I think it was retconned to give weight to sagat not really being a bad person. I don't like though is the "sagat won and went to shake ryus hand and got shoryuken'ed for his sportsmanship. That change was largely unnecessary.

[@rogerhogg8899]

A shoto is a character with moves that fit the basic archetypes of fireball, dp, forward moving physical attack (tatsu, etc.). More specifically, the directional inputs for the moves have to be qcf/b, hcf/b and fqcf/b . There can be variations on the theme, like additional tools in the kit and hit/block effects. Sagat is 100% a shoto.

[@Sasiskin7823]

Then SFIV Poison is a Shoto.

[@Mage_Nichlas_]

I think instead of just a forward moving physical attack it's usually specific to leg attack.

[@TakumiJoyconBoyz]

I think people are overlooking the actual term shoto itself. It's short for shotokan karate. It's because all the characters that are called shotos are practicing a fantasy version of shotokan karate called Ansatsuken (Assassin's Fist).

[@Gam3B0y23r0]

IMHO character should be "Hado" user in some way and/or be trained under "Hado" user school. so no Sagat is not a Shoto... Gouken is definitely a shoto for example, but does not have DP. but he is "Satsui no hado" user and it makes him a shoto.

[@19HajimeSaitou91]

*Shoto is a life style* Grapplers will never undestand this

[@evalangley3985]

If lame is your description, then I agree. Shotos are for beginers.

[@19HajimeSaitou91]

woow why so salty ALREADY? =))

[@arthura.8836]

lmaooooo

[@Yautah]

Grapplers are a *lifestyle*. People with honor will never understand this.

[@troymccowan6367]

🙏🏽

[@CadillacBoi07]

AMKidd’s definition is much more accurate. You have to tie in the lore with the move set. Like the MMA analogy if we train under the same discipline we have the same general base of knowledge but with that we apply our individual strengths to make it our own. Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken, Sakura, E. Ryu/Kage, Sean, Mel(lol) etc. are all variations of the Shoto style

[@Gam3B0y23r0]

agree completely, just fireball, DP and any qcb+k move, does not make shoto... Character should be Hado user, or be trained from that branch of warriors...

[@Slayerthecrow]

For me, a Shoto is a character with: -An horizontal projectile. -A Tatsu-Like move to avoid projectiles and low attacks -A non-projectile anti-air physical move. -They don't have too much variety in Projectiles to be a zooner or don't have a variety of special grabs to be a grappler.

[@-ITH]

Fireball, dp, tatsu /thread

[@Monty2289]

Same. If they have all three even if they are funky variations or differently named they are shotos. I'll also add overall uility and frame data. Sagat's fireball has a much different uility since he can throw high and low ones. It's why he's not a shoto. The only other factor if you can all it one is inputs. If fireball motion and punch throws a fireball, dragonpunch motion and punch throws an uppercut/reversal, and tatsu motion and kick throws a horizontal attack and you have all three you're probably a shoto

[@b00tybu77chks]

Forreal why is this a 20 minute video haha

[@exquisitecorpse4917]

The weirdos out there who ONLY play shotos are really interested in minutia (because they don't have to assimilate as many big concepts when switching characters).....I'm sure this dude could go on for 6 hours about DP properties and which ones are canonically from Gouken.

[@Hiken_Bakuzan]

Pretty much this Anyone trying to argue this are just tryharding/justifying nonsense way too much

[@3serio]

Monty2289 so does Sagat fireballs not count as a funky variation? Just like how Akuma has an air fireball too.

[@g0ud77]

Sagat's tiger uppercut was a direct result of his fight with Ryu

[@hominyhomunculus299]

pretty sure it's confirmed that Sakura is going to college in SF5 so I'd say she's grown up

[@TakumiJoyconBoyz]

Yeah, she's going to college and has a job. She's legally an adult in every country in the world.

[@batsukamuro]

Akuma was playable in Super Turbo. There was a sequence performed at the character selection screen.

[@alexlane9099]

Banned in tournaments though

[@lv_ql]

Obv Akuma best shoto.. It's in the lore

[@mikelong2756]

SF6 introducing Pregnant Sakura and Daddy Ryu

[@carlosmiguel1105]

They don't seem to consider that there are other fighting games where the term shoto is used. The whole lore factor would not matter in other games.

[@DepressionShaman]

A shoto character simply means a practicioner of Shotokan Karate. Ryu/Evil Ryu/Kage, Ken/Violent Ken, Dan, Sakura, Akuma/Oni, Gouken and Sean. That's it. Sagat is NOT a shoto character. He practices Muay Thai. SAGAT IS NOT A SHOTO. HE'S AN ANTI-SHOTO CHARACTER. Shotokan Karate is a REAL Karate style and Ken and Ryu's moveset is based on it. There is a real move that is similar to a dragon punch. There is a real move that is similar to a Hurriane Kick. The fireball move is magic evidently, but symbolically represents a Karate fighter's KI.

[@TakumiJoyconBoyz]

Yeah, ansatsuken is clearly based on shotokan karate and that's where the term shoto even comes from. That's why ignoring the lore of it is stupid. It's dumb that this is even a debate.

[@CadillacBoi07]

These guys get it!

[@thebuttonboy93]

FACTS

[@3serio]

Sagat is a shoto gameplay wise. He has an Uppercut special move (most people are describing it as a DP, something only shotos have [by name anyway], even if they’re saying he’s not a shoto.). He has a fireball (and even an extra one. I akin it to akuma having an air fireball as an extra one). And he has a horizontal attacking special move that would essentially function as a tatsu. Sagat is a shoto. You guys are playing the ultimate game of semantics.

[@ToranosukeEdo]

My favorite Italian, who isn't a plumber

[@AdversaryOne]

Oh shit...

[@mir2266]

You don't know that

[@Gingbro]

G i o r n o

[@solitudegaming]

Bit of trivia as well. Ryu story mode costume color 14 is a nod to ryu from SF1 with the red hair.

[@gustavoalmeida1579]

Small correction, Akuma was playable in Super Turbo, you had to move the cursor over different characters to make Akuma available in the character select screen. His trade off for the OP special moves was not having a super move.

[@WHIPLASHVideosTBT]

They gave a lot of misinformation in this video

[@alexlane9099]

@@WHIPLASHVideosTBT True

[@Liquidcadmus]

From the perspective of a martial artist I see shoto fighters as based on shotokan karate(clearly that's where the name comes from). the closest character to actual shotokan is makoto, her moves and style is absolutely based off of shotokan. Ryu and Ken are supposedly inspired by the founder of Kyokushin Karate, Masutatsu Oyama. Kyokushin is knockdown Karate, which isn't as stiff or lineal as Shotokan. But all Karate styles are part of the same family and share a very similar base. Shotokan being more lineal in it's mechanics than the rest though. So I guess shoto fighters are simply characters based off karate in general, but specially shotokan.

[@Doktor_Jones]

"From the perspective of a martial artist I see shoto fighters as based on shotokan karate" That thing was made up by the american localisation team, because everybody made shit up at that time. The closest to an actual shotokan character is Makoto.

[@exquisitecorpse4917]

Shotos share TWO characteristics: (1) *Game-plan* Mir explained this very well 8:37 ; it's the basic poke, fireball, uppercut plan, and it's everywhere in Capcom/SNK fighters. (2) *Motions* 236= fireball 623= uppercut; the uniformity of these motions allows the player to switch between different games and characters more easily because the dexterity is transferrable (unlike switiching from a 360 grappler to a charger) If these two characteristics are present, IT IS A SHOTO. Don't pretend Yuri, Jago, and Sagat don't count! I've picked up games for the first time, found a shoto, and done Ryu combos (with near identical execution) on the first try. Mechanics > lore. This is a fighting game channel, not a wiki.

[@187HeroMrSlick]

I think y'all thinking about it the wrong way. In my camp we characterize the fighters like this. Zone, rush, and grapple. You all should know the definition of each so I wont get into that but take note some characters in sf5 are quite evolved and so there are characters with all 3 fighting characteristics or just 2. Essentially which ever attack style they do best defines what they are. Like Laura she can zone but compared to Dhalsim and Guile she has limitations as a Zoner. Alas, she has good walk speed and frame traps so she could be considered either rush or grapple. In my camp we refer to her as Universal Grapple. Following that Logic, Zangief is just Grapple, Necalli and Rashid universal rush because they can zone to some extent and have a very good pressure game and so Cammy and Karen is just rush and Urien universal rush and so on. This is better than calling every body with a fire ball a shoto. lol actually Shoto kinda lacks subsidence in describing sfv. That slang might work best for sf2 .. get with the times guys lol.

[@kingcoheed1208]

What makes a "Shoto" is a Anti Air Special in particularly a Uppercut, a Fireball Technique, and a "Get off me/Get Away" Special aka the Tatsu. Sagat is a Shoto because Tiger Knee is his "Tatsu", Sean is a Shoto, Kage is a Shoto, Sakura is a Shoto, Dan is a Shoto

[@Viciousotk1]

Dan doesnt have fireball, sakura doesnt have a true dp.

[@ursmarrings27]

Wouldn’t tiger knee be more of a rush-down/pressure move rather than a get-off-me/anti-projectile move?

[@b00tybu77chks]

@@Viciousotk1 wym? She has a shoryuken

[@Viciousotk1]

@@b00tybu77chks her dp doesnt have invincivility

[@b00tybu77chks]

@@Viciousotk1 ok? But it's still a shoryuken?

[@stilmaho]

I would say that, just like AMKidd, a character being a shoto is first to do with the moveset then with the lore. One thing important about shoto characters is that they all use a variation of the same fighting style. Ryu and Ken are given. Akuma uses a more advanced and aggressive version. Sakura imitates Ryu with her own twist. Evil Ryu is, well, Ryu but evil. Dan tries to use it. Gouken, being Ryu's and Ken's master, uses a more advanced and defensive version. Oni is Akuma but insane. Kage is Evil Ryu but with more unrefined techniques. In that sense Sagat is not a shoto because he uses a form of Muai Thai instead.

[@solitudegaming]

Agreed. Its about the fighting style, Shoto is short for Shotokan which is a fighting style...so a shoto would be a shotokan practitioner. By that logic, Sagat is not a shoto

[@michaelmccoy1794]

I don't know about your reasoning, but i agree that sagat is not a shoto.

[@thelastgogeta]

The goal of the term "Shoto" is to get across that three core moves or properties are present. As much as the aim and definitely may have suited just Shotokan at a point, characters are more diverse and people want to know about those functions. If you want to talk lore, sure there are less of them. For people playing the game in the moment, it would be strange to not consider Sagat along with the others even if his attacks, role and such differ.

[@savontorres2140]

Gouken gameplay wise is not a shoto , he lacks the basics of a shoto except a fireball. His uppercut is a rising tastu and his moving forward attack is more akin to a dash with an attack. I would consider Gouken not a shoto but a offshoot of one as his moves are used in such a different way that he is in a separate category of shoto . lore wise you can say yes but Fighting games as a whole wise I'd say he's not.

[@jinkazama7587]

If SF does not teach you what Shotos are then see (play) KOF or the Arika fighting games 😂

[@spudsbuchlaw]

For any archetype, nay, any genre or categorisation ask yourself one question: Relative to the core identity (in this case, Ryu/Ken) how useful is it to define this character as like that one? Is it helpful to describe Alex as a Grappler when, relative to Zangief, they have more essentials in common than differences Is it helpful to define Sean as a Shoto when the majority of the knowledge from Ryu can be transferred to Sean? That's the only useful metric

[@Kusanagikaiser999]

Akuma was playable in Super Turbo, you need it to do a process and enter a code on certain characters, that wasn't only in HD remake, he have been a secret character to play as since the arcade version of Super Turbo.

[@n1hondude]

Game-wise a shoto is a character who has a fireball and a dp with the shoryuken motion, so characters like Guile doesn't fit but Sakura and Dan fit. Lore-wise that's a really interesting discussion. Akuma and Gouken has the same master so their moves are different, Gouken uses one hand only for the fireball and Akuma doesn't, HOWEVER Akuma's "true form" ONI (which is a what if) does one-handed fireballs, making it more true to the real Ansatsuken style. Dan was trained by Gouken and he also uses one-handed fireballs, which means he's more accurate to the Ansatsuken style, also Dan, Gouken, Oni and Kage's right hand are all over handed which makes more sense, Ryu and Ken on the other hand have their right hands under, which means they suck as students. Sakura uses both hands but her right one is over.

[@senteikobayashi6578]

Shoto 松涛 is actually shortened term for shotokan actually the pen name of it's founder which means waving pines, shotokan is the style of karate in which ansatsuken was based on.

[@Doktor_Jones]

"shotokan is the style of karate in which ansatsuken was based on" No, it wasn't. The whole shotokan thing was an ass-pull of the english localisation.

[@GoYiTsU]

No no no "shotos" are all those characters who study the Ansatsuken. At first Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Gouken, Goutetsu then Sakura, Dan, Evil Ryu, Sean, Kage Etc. Not calling this characters shotos because their moves have change is like saying honda is not a sumo because he plays very different from SFII Honda. Sagat is not a shoto, you can say he's a shoto like char, Seth is not a shoto either.

[@ghostmangm3059]

Is Jago a shoto? He's just a ninja Ryu

[@kurtofthecumulonimbus]

A "shoto" character has a base fighting-style of Karate. #SagatnotAshoto Seth can be though of as a "true street fighter" in a sense that he doesn't practice a "standard martial arts style" (karate, muy Thai, tae kwon do, etc); has his own style mixing-matching moves, etc.

[@xdragon2k]

JeetKunDo.

[@Liquidcadmus]

the problem with sagat is that his mechanics aren't faithful to muay thai and are actually more close to karate. adon on the other hand is well designed as a muay thai fighter. sagat is odd in that sense, his mechanics are shoto-esque, although they shouldn't be.

[@Doktor_Jones]

No it hasn't, is was made up by the american localisation team.

[@bruceleeds7988]

"Shotos" Are not exclusive to Street Fighter. 1. The number one characteristic of a shoto is that the qcf+p does a fireball, the qcb+K does a forward moving attack, usually a spinning kick, and the dp+p does an anti air attack. 2. The Most blatant shoto rips in the '90s were Jago in Killer Instinct, Mizoguchi in Fighters History, Cyclops In X Men cota, Spiderman in Marvel Super Heroes and Jin in Martial Champion. 3. In Double Dragon '95, The Lee Brothers were Shoto rips with a slight difference. Their qcf+p was a forward moving palm strike, when they went Super Sayan (play the game then you'll get it) the qcf+p was a fireball. 4. Gouken is NOT a shoto. Terry Bogard is NOT a shoto. Kyo is NOT A Shoto. Haohmaru (Samurai Showdown) and Ryo (Art Of Fighting) are NOT QUITE shotos, Haoh don't have a tatsu and Ryo's spinning kick is a different motion. Sagat is NOT a shoto, his SF lore birthed his dp rip of but he does NOT have a tatsu. The tiger knee has always had it's own command

[@revelant]

Seth's combat style is DLC - Downloadable Combat

[@Magnet_Chaos]

My issue with ONLY taking lore and attack names into consideration is that it means that the Shoto archetype exist only in Street Fighter. When every other fighting game has a Ryu proxy. Sometimes even a Ken.

[@Phoenix-pb4sm]

Akuma was totally playable in the original SFII Turbo. He was just banned.

[@reyemilio00]

Interesting video, guys. I kinda feel like shortened term, "shoto", is a term used for a character archetype, while the full term, "Shotokan" specifically is limited to lore (which, I would say, refers only to Ryu, Ken, Gouken and Akuma). I refer to fireball/uppercut characters across the board as shotos (Iori Yagami, Ryo Sakazaki, Robert Garcia, Sagat, Sakura, etc). The gameplay mechanic of "throw fireballs to get them to jump in, then punish with an uppercut" was popularized by Ryu and Ken. They even have the same universal MOTION for those moves lol. Hell, even X-Men:Children of the Atom Cyclops and Psylocke, and Morrigan and Demitri from Darkstalkers, technically fall into the Shoto category. It's their lore and personalities (which are KEY) that make each of them feel like their own, unique characters.

[@GershonBenYitzhak]

Before I watched the video I would say that a shoto is someone with A fireball via qcf A tatsu via qcb A DP via DP, and launches the char vertically

[@drunkredninja]

What makes a shoto? Simple. Zoning projectile, AA, and advancing hitbox move.

[@danbadd]

We all agree that Ryu is SF1/2 is the shot archetype. Rather than try to define whether another character is or isn't, perhaps just measure to what degree they are shoto-like. Two characters could have the same level of similarity but for different reasons..You could still say they are equally shoto-like.

[@danielcookson2644]

Do you guys consider sagat a shoto?

[@AdversaryOne]

Story wise he is a kickboxer. Gameplay wise he is very much a shoto.

[@sirchris6047]

Yes

[@PeFoTiSMeNoSsS]

Sagat is a shoto

[@S3ndMast3r]

imo a Shoto has these characteristics: - A (non-charge) character that can cancel a move to a fireball. - A dp where you have to not be blocking in the first input. - A tatsu/tiger knee like kick that gives you oki.

[@theboidj]

tatsu and tiger knee is NOT the same

[@S3ndMast3r]

@@theboidj they have different properties but nonetheless are horizontal attack. On a finer scale every shoto is different.

[@theboidj]

SendMaster no

[@Free-JackWolff]

It's a character with a fireball and an anti-air, usually an uppercut. And usually a forward moving move. Basically the best moves to have in a 2d/2D.5 . A charge character doesn't count because the gameplay is usually less aggressive. and combos are harder.

[@yurexpi]

So is Sagat a shoto?

[@zTom_]

@@yurexpi Definitely for me. :)

[@EchecEtMaxx]

Very fun video guys! I agree, shotos in my mind ate characters that have hadoken , shoryu, and tatsu , at least. I thought you guys would touch on Lucia as she has fireball and tatsu , would be nice to have heard your opinion on her!

[@xxnike0629xx]

I’m pretty sure most people watch this knows what a _Shoto_ is. It’s a short hand for 松濤館 (Shotokan) style of Karate. Generally speaking, characters in a karate outfit are more than likely a pure _Shoto_ . Others might have some similarities, but not really a _Shoto_ . Speaking of Street Fighter II HD Remix ... Since that’s not available anymore, I think it’d be nice if we got Ultra Street Fighter II ported on disc for PS4.

[@namekianarmy6989]

Not this topic, but is anyone else having issues of connecting with the server? I can't seem to play/connect online.

[@Madjabi]

honestly, i thought a shoto was any character which have the same moves as ryu and ken but does it in an anime/cool/fancy style like. you know those move that have the wow factor when executed.

[@protagonist52]

sagat became a shoto in sf2 champion edition when he received the tiger knee

[@CarInMyAss]

I always kinda felt this way

[@xravia79]

I personally feel that Sagat is a shoto. I'd say he is the only exception.

[@MarioUcomics]

The term come from the Karate style of Shotokan since Capcom in the United States just named named Ken and Ryu's fighting style as Shotokan Karate in manuels of Street Fighter II, despite the fact that it was never Shotokan in the Japanese version. The inside joke with Makoto in Street Fighter III is that her fighting style of Rindoukan more closely resembles Shotokan karate then Ken, Ryu and Akuma since they's stances and attacks look more like Kyokushin Karate (Though some of Ryu's parries and new V Trigger II does look more like traditional karate in it's deeper stance). Shoto meaning "pine-waves" and Kan meaning house. Shotokan Karate creator Gichin Funakoshi never gave his system a name, just calling it karate but his student called it Shotokan since Shoto was his pen name (based on the sound of the wind blowing though pine needles). So all this time gamers just call these character Shoto then what they are really calling Ken Ryu Sakura, and Akuma as Pine Waves LOL

[@raics101]

It can be worse, some call them 'shota' :)

[@zTom_]

Sagat is a shoto for me 😇 Don't really care about a stric adherence to lore, I'm looking at the functions: you have a fireball, a DP and some kind of forward going (kick) attack, all with motion inputs? You're a shoto! EVEN outside SFV in other fighting games. 😁

[@thelastgogeta]

I honestly think that's a bit too strict still since that overvalues the motions. Of course, the motions being the same as SF2 is a big clue and sets the stage for how the move is balanced but characters in BlazBlue Cross Tag Battle still have DPs even with two buttons being the input and if someone uses an easier input to do specials (whether or not it comes with a nerf - see Granblue, Smash, Stylish Mode, Auto Combos etc)... That doesn't change the move itself...

[@Mallyumansky]

Shotos characters to me are: ryu, ken, Akuma, gouken, dan, sakura ,evil ryu/kage, violent ken, and sagat for a dark horse Rashid LMAO

[@---sh3sj]

If you have fireball, shoryuken and hurricane kick then you are shoto

[@savontorres2140]

Remember Gouken is NOT a shoto, lacks a DP ( except supers )and a forward moving kick / punch that is active most of the move, all he has is a fireball.

[@Black_Excellence]

Savon Torres, Gouken is still a shoto, just that his moves are reversed as for which was are used in which way. His Tatsu acts as a DP of sorts, as does his angled hadokens do and his Senku Goshoha acts like a tatsu in that it advances him forward and has some projectile invulnerability, like most tatsus have. And as you already mentioned, he still has traditional DPs as supers and ultra.

[@krypticavalanch]

shotos are people with the potential of satusi no hado.

[@ayers01]

So how do you explain shoto archetype outside of SF games then?

[@joshualowe959]

Hadouken Shoryuken Tatsumaki Senpuu Kyaku

[@AdversaryOne]

I feel like all it takes to be a shoto is a fireball and invincible DP. The tatsu doesn't matter. The style or range of fireball dosen't matter. The button placement doesn't matter. BUT the way you control the character very much matters. It HAS to be q,c>forward or back for fireballs and it HAS to be forward>down>down-forward or down-back for a DP that HAS to have the ability to function as an anti-air in its raw form. Story wise Lucia and Sagat are not Shotos. They aren't cut from the same cloth as Ryu, Ken, Sean, Akuma, Gouken, Kage, Dan, Sakura, ect. in the lore but gameplay wise, they are just as much Shotos as they are. This is the way I justify things, anyway.

[@brixzusjaeger3385]

Disagree on Sagat not being a shoto. He sure as hell plays like one and he developed a certain move after Ryu severely injured him, so that ties into the “lore”.

[@b00tybu77chks]

8:07 really bro? This is your argument? Oof. Sagat isn't a shoto either.

[@jinkazama7587]

Ryu is Akuma's son, the red hair was the giveaway.

[@evalangley3985]

I think the best way to describe Street Fighter V is by separating the two variance of the cast: Has invincible DP/Has no invincible DP All the game rely on this. If you don't have a DP, you will be shown no respect on wakeups.

[@Huaiwen]

I agree with AM cuz CONTEXT DOES MATTER.

[@srseki]

Kage doesn't play like (orthodox) shoto, but he is shoto in the sf story. Because the play style among shoto are so different, we should not use this term to refer play style any more, instead call ryu, sagat and guile as fireball zoning character will be much more accurate.

[@javiderivia4224]

The worst enemy of LTG lol

[@OnyxeBlade]

My favorite Capcom shotos Ryu Morrigan Sakura Gouken Oni Akuma Non Capcom Shotos Yuri Sakazaki King (Xuan Dou Zhi Wang) Also Seth is not a shoto since she can copy any fighter's abilities not just the shotos. Seth also brings her own moves to the table as well

[@Gailardia_Galan]

How is Morrigan a Shoto? And King for that matter? Fuck, even Yuri!

[@Gailardia_Galan]

Oh and Seth is an "it" A sentient being in a doll.

[@evalangley3985]

Firebal, DP, Tatsu... shoto... yeah, Sagat is a Shoto, Kage is a Shoto, Akuma is a Shoto, Ken is a Shoto, Ryu is a Shoto, Seth is not a Shoto.

[@wendelleasports]

Akuma = Ryu, easy mode Dan = Ryu, hard mode Sakura = Ryu fun mode

[@brysenplays3146]

Akuma is the best shoto in SFV

[@SlimeBeherit]

I understand wanting to have a label to help newcomers understand what certain characters can do, but by the time you spend explaining what a shoto is, you could just as easily explain that certain character have anti-airs, projectiles, and moves that go through projectiles. This serves explain all characters, as oppose to just a small group, that you're gonna have re-explain that all characters within that group have nuanced differences, ultimately making the label less useful. Considering the term Shoto was also just a mistake made by Capcom US to begin with, I think we should just drop the label all together. It is as AMKidd was trying to say, it is rooted in lore Ansatsuken was a fighting style that many characters learned, and they would go on to teach others about it, and they would develop their own version of it. This video only further proves that the term shoto is confusing and ultimately not very useful.The less we use it, the less people will be confused about the lore, and by just explaining the utility of the moves that all characters use, the more people will actually understand the entirety of the game, and not just an arbitrary group of characters.

[@---sh3sj]

It's all about the lore. Plus you guys are overthinking the shit out of this topic lol. A Shoto is any character who can trace their fighting style lineage back to Goutetsu. You cant apply "Shoto" to just any character just because they have a DP, Fireball or any similar move for that matter. That's why Sagat is not Shoto. He is a Muay Thai Fighter. His moveset just happens to be similar to a Shoto, but still means nothing. Sagat is Muay Thai Kickboxing. Zeku and Guy have very different movesets, yet both are considered Bushinryu practitioners. These terms are really about lore, not strategy.

[@JoJo-ze3fx]

Cool but what's a shoto?

[@similaritiesendhere]

The second guy is annoying. The term "shoto" describes a play style and has nothing to do with lore. To prove it, other 2d games have "shotos". 1. Guilty Gear: Ky (Ryu), Chipp (Akuma) 2. Blazblue: Makoto (Ryu) 3. SamSho: Haohmaru (Ryu) 4. KoF: Ryo, Robert, Kensou, Yuri, Classic Iori, Takuma The term originated from people trying to describe the play styles of characters from other games to new players. If you were transitioning from SF to a new game, your best bet was to pick a "shoto" (usually a beginner character) because everyone knows the basic fireball/dp strategy.

[@ghostmangm3059]

KI: Jago

[@slylataupe1697]

Very nice Mustache 👍

[@crewchannel4591]

Is Kirby a shoto?

[@thelastgogeta]

Depends, the many Fighter Kirby versions in the series are almost undoubtedly Shotos by design up to the headband. In Smash? Dash attacks often fit the same space as Tatsu. Kirby only has a projectile (command or not) from copying or eating thing to spit out or doing his Up B which could be called a DP Hado hybrid. That said, he basically can't zone anyone out in Smash without copying them first so he falls into the SFV zone somewhat but at least holds onto the move.

[@phichau90]

I feel like they should have a unique characteristics.

[@InspectorGeek]

Sorry guys but I just watch the whole video and the tittle wasn't resolved, I still don't know what a shoto is, now I have more questions than answers!

[@187HeroMrSlick]

Refer to my post ...

[@DramatikNote]

For me, Shoto means three things. Fireball, Forward Moving Special thay may or may not be projectile invul. And an DP special. If you have these you are a shoto in my eyes.

[@joshualowe959]

Top shotos: 1. Akuma 2. Ryu & Ken 3. Gouken 4. Sakura 5. Dan Sagat is an anti shoto

[@PeFoTiSMeNoSsS]

Sagat is a shoto as well

[@justsignmeup911]

In my opinion: Ryu, Ken, Akuma, Evil Ryu, Violent Ken, Dan, Oni, Kage are all definitely shotos. Sean and Sakura maybe. Sagat and Gouken not shotos.

[@Viciousotk1]

For me is the mechanical aspect. Mostly fireball and dp. Iori is a shoto and ryo isnt.

[@joshualowe959]

Ryu, Ken, Evil Ryu, Violent Ken, Dan, Sakura, Sean, Akuma, Shin Akuma, Cyber Akuma & Oni are all shotos What about Sagat?? I see Sagat as an "Anti-shoto"

[@PeFoTiSMeNoSsS]

Sagat is a shoto

[@bazzjedimaster]

WHAT IS A SHOTO?!?! A MISERABLE PILE OF MOTION INPUTS

[@grandmasterrodimus1480]

The fighter needs to have a dragon punch, a hadoken, or gadoken, & a tatsu.... if it doesnt have those, it isnt a shoto.....

[@jamman7344]

Chun-Li, Cammy, and C. Viper are also considered Shoto's lol they all use magic. Shoto's are anyone who can use ki energy. Seth can do this so it makes him one. Lol

[@michaelmccoy1794]

*WRONG* You are SO wrong. WTF are you even talking about?

[@xravia79]

@@michaelmccoy1794 Lmao this guy called Ki magic and said Chun Li was a shoto. I'm dying 😂

[@gertruidagertruida3920]

what makes a shoto chara? when the character practices shotokan d'uh....

[@brysenplays3146]

What does shoto mean?

[@01turtlesrule]

Ryu's fighting style is called Shotokan. Shoto for short. So anyone that has a similar fighting moves to ryu is considered a "shoto"

[@KingFossilFER]

It comes from shotokan karate, a fighting style. Now that kinda confirms that sagat is not a shoto since he uses muai thai instead

[@01turtlesrule]

@@KingFossilFER you beat me by 8 secs lol

[@Icipher353]

@@KingFossilFER in the context of SF, “shoto” refers more to the mechanics than to a real world fighting style, so Sagat can still qualify as a “shoto”.

[@Gailardia_Galan]

@@Icipher353 Sagat is not a Shoto and would roll over in his grave if he was ever called that. You say "context" of SF, not realizing that Shotokan, since Shoto comes it, is also within it's context. Not to mention the lore and how Sagat prides himself on his Muay Thai lifestyle.

[@Free-JackWolff]

Ken is the best shoto now.😜 He finally has got out of Ryu's shadow!

[@s1lvrinferno]

I main ken I don't believe he's the strongest shoto. Ryu is even better since the update and akuma still has the best toolset in general. I place ken third

[@fightingforce8498]

Ken? Your dumb.

[@Sakaki98]

Mental Deviant Nah, Ken hasn’t been the strongest shoto since 1999, where he was easily the third best character in Third Strike. Right now, he’s completely over shadowed by Akuma and even Kage has more going for him at high levels. In terms of lore, after the events of SFV(which itself comes before Third Strike), Ken has never caught up to Ryu after the latter fully dealt with the Satsui no Hado. Besides that, Ryu is getting personal training from Oro, who’s the strongest character in the series rn aside Akuma(their fight was inconclusive), and Akuma is still the strongest shoto in canon.

[@M1ndzor]

imagine putting lore into definition when it went beyond street fighter games long ago

[@emmanuelonwuha3866]

Of course sagat is a shoto, if he isn’t then goken isn’t a shoto

[@Yautah]

I disagree that the lore has anything to do with the characters being shotos or not.

[@Gailardia_Galan]

Then you are foolish

[@Yautah]

@@Gailardia_Galan can't argue with such a well though argument.

[@Gailardia_Galan]

@@Yautah LOL, fine. How about this: What would SF be without the lore? I believe the lore is just as important as the gameplay itself. Shotos started off with Ryu/Ken and branched off in to the other type of "Shoto" families and they are all connected in some way lore wise. Not only do they have similar moves (and possible playstyles) but the lore also ties them together. At least that is how I see it.

[@Yautah]

@@Gailardia_Galan And I respect that, but for me, shoto is the moves they have. shoryu tatsu hadoken, that's a shoto. Then again, I don't really pay too much attention to SF's lore. I tried at first but it's such a clusterfuck that it doesn't really matter to me anymore, it's gameplay above all.

[@AdversaryOne]

I break it up. Story wise and gameplay wise.

[@Sin606]

If Sagat's a Shoto it's because of his character story in SFV. This was a good topic I just always thought of Ryu and friends + gi less girl and old guy.

[@alexlane9099]

This video is over-complicating something simple Shoto was a generic term to describe a Ryu like character in the arcades.

[@ricemenarq6230]

*Mena sit on the faces of all Shoto players!!!*

[@sm7085]

anyone who says shoryuken

[@xdragon2k]

I just realized, Seth is definitely not Shoto, he's a JeetKunDo practitioner. PS. Sagat is definitely not Shoto, he's Muay Thai.

[@NumeroGaijin]

Man, I must be getting old. People don't know what a shoto character is. Smh, Street Fighter has been out for ages and we know all this frame data, OS, combos, 1-frame links, collision boxes, hurtboxes, shimmy, and more and people don't know what shotos are? Forgive me but I am very surprised by this.

[@MrYotambien1]

Shoto is short for Shotokan karate. So Sagat can’t be a shoto since he’s muy tai. The Shoto’s are All of Goutesu’s students which are Akuma and Gouken and down the line. Gouken’s students are Dan, Ken, and Ryu. Ryu students are Sakura kens student is Sean. Oni and evil Ryu/ kage are just shoto’s that have fallen victim to the satsui no Hado. Also shoto’s are taught to use their skills in the best way that fits them. Which is why Kage, akuma, Sakura, ken, Ryu, Oni, Sean, and Dan fight differently. They use what works.

[@DDazzle1]

Sagat plays way more like Ryu than Ken does. It's the moveset that makes them shotoclones, not the lore. Of course Sagat is a shoto

[@SantiLokyyo]

DP, Fireball and Tatsu. There i saved you 21 minutes.

[@sirchris6047]

Imagine thinking Sean isn't a shoto