What Makes This Album Great: Empyrean Isles

In this episode, the yhi team breaks into the discography of Herbie Hancock. Let's delve into Empyrean Isles and really break down what elements make it so iconic. Let us know what you think in the comments!
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Empyrean Isles
• Herbie Hancock - Empy...
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[@jacobseymour7221]

One of the most underrated jazz albums that I think is a desert island album but never really gets talked about is Oliver Nelson’s blues and the abstract truth. I would love to hear you guys do a show about that one.

[@migmarfin]

Agreed. Andrew Hill's Point of Departure is a similar case: a semi-unknown leader with some legendary sidemen. And Eric Dolphy featured on both.

[@ericfrederickson2692]

Loving this new series! I have a suggestion about the rating system. The "Is it better than Kind of Blue?" category being all-or-nothing with points (0 or 10) doesn't feel quite right to me. You guys were talking a bit at the end about how 75/100 feels a bit too low for this record, and I agree; I think the Kind of Blue category is a big part of the reason for that. I think a good alternative would be to have the points an album gets on the category be determined by how well it stacks up against Kind of Blue, instead of being all-or-nothing like it is now (which causes albums that are close in quality to Kind of Blue but not better than it to get 0/10 when they really should be getting closer to a 5/10 or something like that). It could be like a less-than vs equal-to vs greater-than idea: if an album is clearly worse than Kind of Blue it gets a 0; if it's clearly better than Kind of Blue it gets a 10; if it's about on par with Kind of Blue, it gets a 5; and anywhere in-between. This way, when you eventually review Kind of Blue, you'll know what to do with this category, because the album isn't better than itself or worse than itself: it's equal! Excited for future episodes. Peace!

[@YoullHearIt]

Good idea

[@toddhouston4523]

I love jazz and grew up with it but my dad mainly played big band but played some cool players like Mulligan and Brubeck so there’s a lot of jazz styles and albums I haven’t heard and this album is one of them. I heard each musician on other albums but not together. I’ll have to check this out. Thanks.

[@TashiTones]

Love the new orange muff's

[@noahv8671]

This album as well as Wayne Shorter’s Juju have kind of a fuzzy sound to my ears. Sounds like an engineering issue, kinda like Steely Dan’s Katy Lied. The playing is so precise and clear though it sounds fine. Could sound better though, doesn’t have the clarity of the best recorded jazz albums

[@brw4807]

Gala

[@nilkilnilkil]

Not listened to this one so much ...

[@jibsmokestack1]

Lots of details wrong in this video.

[@Xarthis]

Would you consider to also grade the records on "danceability"? I think that would lead to some spicy discussions, or is it to far out of your wheelhouses?. btw GALA

[@teelurizzo8542]

This is a killer album, forming a great quartet of early records along 'Taking Off', 'My Point Of View' and the more well known and more highly regarded 'Maiden Voyage'.

[@wyattreed4024]

Such a sweet record and one of the first I got into when I was younger. The cover and fantastical titles really set up the vibe of the album well. Always loved how Herbie is able to play so grooving but without losing that really emotional, colourful feel. Cantaloupe Island is the standout for me, so fun to play. Thanks for the pod :)

[@Xlornick]

Over the years, I've become increasingly less enchanted with the RVG sound,. Sure he creates a great vibe, and it's mostly a very pleasant listening experience, but man, the piano is just squashed to death on all his recordings, and the bass can get lost in all the mud. I understand from a mixing perspective why he worked this way, but there are better sounding studios and engineers from that time period. This album in particular has always sounded bad to me. It's a shame because the playing is phenomenal,. Personally, I think RVG is highly overrated. There's a reason Mingus refused to work with him.

[@AManAnd88Keys]

As a pianist, that‘s also my experience with RVG albums. It just doesn‘t do the instrument justice and makes transcriptions unnecessarily painful.

[@harrisonrichter9414]

Yes, a particularly atrocious piano sound, even though he certainly created a legacy of people who played on the label. Miles Seven Steps to Heaven on Columbia has an incredible sounding piano

[@Xlornick]

@@harrisonrichter9414 Monk's recordings on Columbia sound incredible. I'd say the Atlantic studios piano sounds much better as well. It's crazy that McCoy Tyner recorded so much material under RVG, even on his own sides.

[@Xlornick]

​@@CRtrainIt is subjective, true, but I don't think you need to be an audio engineer or a purist. I think any pianist could hear how dull and squashed that piano sound is, or even anyone who has listened intently to a wide variety of piano recordings. Just to compare, go listen to the Seven Steps to Heaven album. Same pianist, same year, different studio. Once you get past the reverb and panning, listen for the tonal differences in the piano sound...brighter, fuller, thicker bottom, more dynamic. Every other instrument has a different character as well.

[@jimdixon3470]

While the "RVG Edition" CDs may be a defacto standard, I'd urge anyone into classic-era Blue Note albums to seek out other CD editions and compare them to the RVGs through a good set of headphones. Rudy not only was monkeying with the sound in the 1960s when he originally mixed and mastered the records, but he also brought all his same sonic preferences (namely reduced dynamic range, boosted bass frequencies, narrow stereo field) to the CD remastering he did in the 1990s and 2000s. Some folks love the sound, some don't (I'm not a fan, most of the time). I would not score a classic Blue Note for sound quality on an RVG edition CD unless that was literally the only edition I could find. The rule isn't 100%...maybe 1 in 10 of the RVG CDs is actually as good or better than the other CD editions that have been released, and have wider dynamic range and less sonic tweaking. But generally speaking, imho, they aren't an improvement over the Ron McMaster masterings from the 1980s and early 1990s. The same is true for the JVC XRCD "audiophile" CDs of Blue Note, Riverside, and Prestige albums. You can't assume they are a sonic improvement, despite all the technical mumbo jumbo printed on the package.

[@MarkRoy-e2b]

You don't have to be a jazz snob to be aware that Cantaloupe Island was an effort to repeat Watermelon Man. Or that it doesn't belong with the other songs. What makes 'a vibe' doesn't produce great art, but that's OK - these guys had to make a living, and more power to them when they did.

[@jacklynam5653]

GALA Love these new review style videos. I also like that the scoring system isn't way too serious haha. You guys are great

[@MilestonesArchive]

Herbie, Ron and Tony first recorded with Miles on May 14, 1963- three tracks for _Seven Steps to Heaven,_ with George Coleman on tenor, just a few days after jamming in Miles' basement. Still remarkable playing here. Good discussion.

[@harrisonrichter9414]

Came here to say this

[@minguseyes7475]

Enjoying the album reviews, but wondering why a high score on the snobmeter is a good thing. Surely KOB will get a zero there, since so many people who don’t like jazz own that one album…

[@funkytotoro6149]

Hearing RVG recordings described this way made a ton of sense to me why i always have so much trouble trying to transcribe these albums. All the rhythm sections winds up being such mush it gets tough to parse through, as good as the playing/vibe/experience get for a pure listener. I love this album but i definitely get on with all these ratings.

[@MarkRoy-e2b]

I've been pronouncing it wrong in my head for almost 50 years.

[@drendelous]

i dont understand a clue but i just love your sharing of how great it is for you

[@adamk8347]

Awesome series! I think as far as the snob-o-meter goes (for me, at least), albums with high scores are going to be those that I have or would have listened to academically, but not necessarily for the pure enjoyment of listening to musicians making relateable and accessible music together. I prefer tracks that make me want to find the nearest piano. On a probably unrelated and totally coincidental side note, I guess Caldera realized Empyrean Isles was already taken so they went with Sky Islands. 😆

[@TheMisterGriswold]

Sky Islands is a great track. 🎹🎶

[@BoWadeOnDrums]

GALA🎉🎹 I love island music 🏝 The cover is like blue lava🗿

[@jibsmokestack1]

Freddie Hubbard on Cornet!

[@MonkeyHouseChannel]

This ☆☆☆☆☆ album is under-discussed, so thank you for this pod! Title and cover are both 10/10, btw...

[@TheNerdKnownAsDavid]

GALA

[@snoopy_next_door]

Recently I am so into Herbie's 60s compositions, especially One finger snap and the Sorcerer. Happy to see this album being analyzed today!

[@marcusarnstrom7211]

Great episode, makes me wanna both listen to the album, and read the Hancock autobiography again. The KOB-question is kinda strange though.. Does KOB get 5 then? And all other albums 0 or 10? Why not just measure the other scores against what KOB gets, and that should tell you if it's better or not (in your mind).

[@hayzmi]

82

[@RonaldFigura]

Enjoying the variety of content that Open Studio provides. You'll Hear It is definitely one of the best. I like the interchange between AM & PM. It's like great jazz. Interactive.

[@jacklynam5653]

I bet three million dollars next week they review Cresecent

[@GameNationRDF]

this series is amazing! cant wait to see whats next, and I get super excited when its also some album that I know. its nice to hear you guys talk about something, it feels like I am sharing my excitement with a friend!

[@drstrange629]

GALA. Note: the ring on the album cover is the wear on Caleb’s copy. 😅

[@powlobo.m.b.]

This is cool but maybe you could also point out some technical stuff that you love on the songs (cool chords transitions etc).. as always great stuff! Thanks ✌️

[@GizzyDillespee]

Nuthin to say, but sayin it! That's the GALA!🤣 Enjoy such a rare time, that I have nothing to say.

[@davidlewis6762]

yup- true supergroup on this & maiden voyage, really hard to believe they were all in their early / mid 20s

[@timcardona9962]

Soooooo glad to see you guys talking about this record, which has been a favorite of mine for years but I feel I constantly have to wake everybody up to it! Maiden Voyage is great but always felt kind of safe to me whereas Empyrean is full of risk taking and incredible group interplay. They were on the edge with this session

[@jackgalloway8314]

Getting dark me muckas. Polychords, I feel.

[@ОстапТреш]

I wish to hear your opinions on some classic guitar albums (or with guitar as a lead instrument)

[@charlessutton3822]

Bespoke Gala!

[@jackgalloway8314]

Sounds like a mystic mode. Didn't god make him funky?

[@daivyajadeja1820]

Soul Station - Hank Mobley next pleaz!!!

[@RudiValdez]

I love this series. Looking forward to KOB

[@MattCarter67]

Hmm, wonder how KOB will score on snobometer!

[@donkukki]

GALA. I love this new album-series.

[@BobMazzo]

Great review guys. I love Herbie.

[@Kaiju_Tea_Party]

My favorite kind of apple is a Gala

[@gorgonikos]

GALA I'd give EI a 90%

[@tomsiegel9759]

I like these! One of my favorite things about it is that after each of these reviews, I went and listened to the entire album being reviewed to see if I agreed with you guys. Good to expand my listening repertoire. Anyway... My rating: -Playing: 9 -Vibes: 6 - to me, the vibe is not consistent. While this is about the song order in some respects, it's also about the song selection. I don't think all the tracks go together. - Composition: 8 I mean, they're well written songs, but not my absolute favorite. - Sound: 6 - I am in agreement about the piano. Not the best piano sound and that's too bad. - Sequence: 7 - This is hard because I just don't think Cantaloupe belongs on the record at all. So, it is kinda in the wrong order no matter where you put it. - Cover Art: 6 - Kinda Meh. - Lore: 8 I actually like the story that this is pre-Miles. - Title: 7. Doesn't strike me as special, but it's not offensive in any way. - Snob-O-Meter: 8 It's not the snobbiest of records, but I think its appeal would be solidly within the snob cohort and not at all the layperson just wanting to put some jazz on so they feel good while they drink a glass of wine. - KOB: 0. Just isn't. - Favorite Track: Oliloqui Valley Total score: 65 - I guess this is not my favorite. Sidenote: the snob-o-meter rating messed up my score. For me, I think the more the album only appeals to the snob cohort, generally the less I like it. I'm a pretty straight ahead guy. So, I actually think my overall score should be a couple clicks lower. Maybe a 62. Ouch.

[@timcardona9962]

Interesting review - 60s Blue Note records often had a mix of repertoire that usually included a funky tune whether or not it fit so using this criteria you'll have to ding dozens and dozens of records. What makes this album special is the group interplay which is just as strong as it is on any Miles record

[@tomsiegel9759]

@@timcardona9962 yes, I gave the playing a 9. To be honest Tony Williams is my favorite part of the playing, but yeah the group's interplay is also stellar. That said, the whole thing overall not my favorite.

[@ThinkGarza]

Such a great series! Keep these up!

[@RomanSkateboarding]

love this format!

[@tysonleuthauser1412]

GALA love it

[@ManchurianCounterweight]

I absolutely love the 'is it better than KInd Of Blue' category, lolol. It's funny because it's true, as Homer Simpson would say.