What Next for Feminism?

[@dchenyang]

Love Helena Cronin's ending speech, we don't have to be the same to be equal.

[@Carltoncurtis1]

Who else clicked this video _just_ to look at the comments?

[@brentherman8222]

right here sir

[@onajourneytosomewherek8242]

guilty lmao....

[@Pjaypt]

I did!

[@tvdl]

Surprised at all the dislikes, pretty sure hardly anyone complaining here watched the entire video... Anyways I just did and must say, as someone who is highly critical of the contemporary feminist movement, this was a very insightful and nuanced talk with a bunch of different and interesting opinions and viewpoints. I'm sure it would be easy to nitpick some fragments and use them to dislike the entire thing but I don't think the video deserves that as, like I said, it covers multiple voices and opinions.

[@theTruB]

+tvdl agreed, this is one of the better, But thats mostly thanks to Helena Cronin, Ann-Marie Slaughter on the other hand...

[@MrSparksy69]

+tvdl I was good until the 'how'r we gonna sell our brand' bit at the end.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

I thought Ann-Marie was bang on with the topic of more care-giving needed - we have an aging population and more creches and baby-sitting needed and nowhere near enough carers. Those there are are underpaid and often without the right attitude. It's not an aspirational career. This all needs to be turned around.

[@Chidds]

This was a great discussion. It really highlighted some extreme differences of views that identify with feminism. Personally, this is what I find so contentious about the term feminism. In short feminism is about the ideal of empowering women, the problem is this means different things to different people and everyone has a different idea of how their view should be achieved. What concerns me about the latest expression of feminism is how dogmatic and tribalistic it has become, and how quickly they are prepared to throw straight white men under the bus; treating them as second class citizens.

[@MindOfFoolio]

Helena Cronin, only rational person on the stage with a reason and evidence (not selective one) based approach (notice how everybody else only addresses examples that confirm their assumption while ignoring others that don't, including the broader evidence Helena pointed out). Watch the feminists squirm and contradict themselves when Cronin points out the flaw of focusing on and assuming equal outcome and defining that as 'equality' (which is first - disingenuously - denied, yet later confirmed as their assumption by Afua Hirsch who still assumes equal outcome will be the result - of course contrary to all evidence pointed out and without evidence for that simplistic assumption, just pure dogma that fly in the face of even their own admission that there are inherent differences that underlie differences in behavior and desires). Strawman arguments (typical in feminist debates) and self-refuting tangents follow - like the guy who points out that there certainly are at least small inherent differences between men and women and they can amplify themselves in large differences in results yet completely fails to see how that - ironically - proves we therefore should NOT expect equal outcome since even small gender differences can result in large differences in outcome :) Truly mind-boggling the smugness and irrationality of this panel (apart from Cronin).

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Afua Hirsch actually specifically said she wasn't interested in equality of outcome so much as of opportunity.

[@chadcadsonvii5258]

Cheers, saved me the time.

[@joemwas5442]

@@MatthewMcVeagh she says that but she does not mean it

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

@@joemwas5442 How do you know?

[@joemwas5442]

@@MatthewMcVeagh I know through seeing repeated cycles of women doing same things through free choice. Seeing this also being universal and consistent. Also life experience, feedback and knowledge gained

[@marck8519]

I really feared for Helena Cronin. I thought she was gonna get eaten by some of the others by the looks they gave her when she spoke after minute 27 or so.

[@MexxPowers]

+Marc k , Helena Cronin arguments are sound and valid. Unlike the opposition who didn't give a sound and valid response.

[@12inchy12]

+Marc k helena ruled the debate for sure

[@buybuydandavis]

"What Next for Feminism?" Let us hope this feminist identity politics totalitarianism ends up in the dustbin of history.

[@12inchy12]

Helena Cronin ruled this debate, you could see the rest were offended by her arguments but couldn't actually answer them, Helena is an intellectual for sure

[@sociobiologist5141]

14:37. Just listen to the bile in her tone...

[@KymHammond]

She sounds like Richard Dawkins. ​@@sociobiologist5141

[@ThiagoGasparino]

Why is there no acknowledgment of Helena Cronin in the video description? Why would you do that? Why is the somewhat divergent opinion on the stage, and the only one talking sense there, actually, put aside like that? How can a channel that is dedicated to highly intelectual DEBATES take such and anti-intelectual stance? This is preposterous. Disgraceful, really.

[@MrGameArnt]

There is (now?). Probably just a mistake. It did feel like the host was playing favorites a bit.

[@ThiagoGasparino]

There wasn't when I made my comment. Thanks for letting me know they fixed this.

[@agrawal.akash9702]

masquerading your personal (sexist and incorrect) views as intelligent by using a tiny flaw in their production. true mra.

[@grotmx]

Seemed to me like a good, thought-provoking debate. I'm no longer surprised by the usual knee-jerk anti-feminist tirades in the comments.

[@deiviance]

iqsquared video about feminism - not a debate. shocking surprise.

[@PaladinusSP]

I wonder how many people who disliked that video have actually watched it in its entirety.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

That's complete rubbish Zutroy. Fact is she spoke in favour of families and career ambition.

[@charliejohnson4787]

Well it's a good thing they got an unbiased moderator who believes in genuine gender equality not parity, ohhhh wait...

[@TheStableGenius]

The lack of intellectual depth and rigor in this discussion is embarrasing for the IQ2 brand. Thank goodness for the lone voice of reason and intellectual honesty coming from the evolutionary philosopher.

[@alejandrosolerdiaz2631]

at 11:00 the lady talking about gender equality in elder anatolia, is lying, read about that city

[@mcnyregrus]

Out of honest curiosity, can you post a link or tell me what specifically to look up? I read about it on Wikipedia now, and it seemed to concur pretty much with what was being said in this video.

[@helzevec]

51:30 - the issue with law firms, and most high end professions, is simply a matter money paid - services rendered. Big law has those demands on their lawyers because their lawyers charge high rates - hence, "Big Law". Their clients, in turn, have higher expectations. Which makes sense...if you pay someone $500/hr, you rightly are entitled to demand more from that person than if you were paying them $50/hr. And, at the end of the day, if you're not willing to work 60/hr/wk to justify your $500/hr rate, then someone else WILL. So no, it's not an easy nut to crack.

[@matthewleech7196]

if you think feminism is crap then please watch. This will confirm what you already knew.

[@almostafa4725]

LMAO

[@Overonator]

I'm going to give this video a fair shot. I will consciously try to keep my biases muted as much as I can.

[@Overonator]

+Overonator Right on Helena Cronin adding science and analytic philosophy instead of critical theory to the discussion! That lady is dropping science bombs. I had low hopes for this discussion but it seems they didn't create an echo chamber at all in their choice of guests. Good on IQSQUARED.

[@NitushiLenoir]

1 constant with each guest was the importance of having career and educational opportunities and support during the process. Just keep in mind that given the same opportunities men and women still want to do things differently.

[@billiondollarbull]

People are disliking an hour long video that was posted 18 minutes ago. Just goes to show the maturity level of basement-dwelling anti-feminist.

[@agentsmidt3209]

+Meek "The L GOAT" Mill Because it only takes a few seconds/minutes to smell bullshit.

[@billiondollarbull]

+Sentient Species Who cares what they call themselves. Disliking a video before watching the whole thing because of your bias is still pathetic.

[@MexxPowers]

+Meek "The L GOAT" Mill , I can take a couple of samples in 10 minutes and judge if this is my cup of tea or not.

[@billiondollarbull]

ZyTelevan Fail. I didn't like the video because I'm only at the 30 minute point. I'll finish the video later tonight.

[@billiondollarbull]

***** Why?

[@fefifofob]

The amount of misinformation is staggering.

[@commonsense3921]

Not staggering at all it’s a panel of mostly women.

[@2shadowgamer2]

I think the only reason this video has so many negitive votes is because it has the word "Feminism" in the title. Which is a shame because each person brings up some interesting points.

[@jorgerosales6452]

That's the unfortunate part about labels and organizations. It comes with all the baggage

[@tjti2631]

2shadowgamer2 more like because of the excess of false rhetoric being spouted

[@Macheako]

Youre in denial

[@0myjoe]

the woman on the 2nd from the left makes a good point about patriarchy not necessarily existing 8000 BC with a village found with men and women doing everything the same coincides with the theory about capitalism and patriarchy coming about at the same time as the birth of agriculture (around 10,000 years ago) and land ownership began, these are all interlinked

[@Paradoxfrog]

This might be true, but humans look at a problems and then put in the person who has the best chances - for example, a hunter needs to be strong, fast and agile, ofc there will be females with this traits, but in average it will be males that are going hunting, i dont think in this village they did everything 50/50 - highly unlikely.

[@99IronDuke]

I would respect we stern feminists more if they paid more attention to women in the third world, who actually do need more rights and also stopped making excuses for Muslim migrants.

[@gsscotland]

I was enjoying this and the comments near the start about promoting traditional roles more is very interesting and clever in order to make such attractive to men. However, within seconds of Afua Hirsch speaking she was basically placing feminism as an after-thought to her primary agenda of banging on about race, specifically blacks. I didn't hear her talk about other races such as Oriental, Indian, Arab etc, just black. I'm sick of hearing it all the time and it ruined what looked like a very interesting discussion.

[@tjti2631]

The opening speech is nothing short of false rhetoric and bad logical conclusions. You’d think someone who went to Cambridge would know better. Because there are more women in a particular domain of expertise than men doesn’t automatically equal a systematic exclusion of men. It’s just bad reasoning . I’m truly disappointed. I hoped for an honest logical discussion.

[@babalaksa]

15:48 Daniel Glaser demonstrates the McGurk Illusion/Effect, which highlights a cognitive error that can arise when auditory and visual information conflict with each other. This is obviously biology at work (brain, neurology, etc). He uses this as a launching pad to make assertions about how women are perceived differently. 17:02 "It's called a McGurk illusion and it's a very powerful example of cross-modal perception. What you see changes how you hear. And I think this is an unrecognized problem in how women are perceived in public." And then: 18:18 "The differences we're talking about are cultural, my friends. They do not arise in the womb and they are not determined by biology. We see differently because we are enculturated to see differently" You are a self-contradicting idiot.

[@MichaelJuska]

Perception is learned culture effects perception, therefore this is a relevant point. Although a bit of a leap, he definitely isn't an idiot.

[@joemwas5442]

@@MichaelJuska it's not relevant

[@philiprowney]

I notice that the panel contains only one man... ...funny that.

[@limpa756]

03:00 yes well done, you destroyed mens wages and now both parents have to work harder than ever and neither get to spend enough time with their kids. Real win right there

[@yulewitch]

I'm shocked by the number of misogynist comments, WTF?! If you think feminism is now all but obsolete, please look at the number of domestic violence incidents in the UK, let alone across the world.

[@theTruB]

+Lucy Baha yes. please do en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_violence_against_men

[@yulewitch]

+Magnus Andersson Domestic violence is a crime whether it affects men or women. However, domestic violence disproportionately affects women therefore it is a feminist issue.

[@theTruB]

"disproportionately" No its not. "According to a 2010 national survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Department of Justice, in the last 12 months more men than women were victims of intimate partner physical violence and over 40% of severe physical violence was directed at men." www.saveservices.org/2012/02/cdc-study-more-men-than-women-victims-of-partner-abuse/ "women were the perpetrators in more than 70% of the cases." ajph.aphapublications.org/doi/abs/10.2105/AJPH.2005.079020 Just to add, there is zero help for Male victims while there is lots of help for Female victims, thats equality for you right there..

[@Maniac742]

+Lucy Baha Ah yes, because clearly only domestic violence can happen to women. Herp derp. Continue smoking crack.

[@joemwas5442]

Your talking nonsense

[@GodinhoVideos]

Pay attention to the blonde on the left. There is (to a small extent) a debate - no need for downvoting this to hell people.

[@mikoda92]

What Next for Feminism? Hopefully the grave.

[@badem]

The only sensible person on that panel was the old lady on the far left side of the screen.

[@anbu2]

25:00 - Yeah, because no-one ever gave Eamon Holmes flack for being overweight?

[@KymHammond]

3:27 30years ago - in the 90’s? Early to mid eighties feminism was full on and a large part of every academic corse structure and workplace- how backward was the BBC and privileged education? We are given statistics on gender inclusion but no details as to why or that other more appropriate statistics may be available

[@maurocosta5517]

I don't have any problem with feminism but I do think that the mainstream feminist is white privilege woman talking to white privilege woman. Not every woman face the same problem, you shouldn't try to push a general speech without taking in consideration class, race, sexuality. Today it should be this minorities to be heard, not the same people of 50 years ago. Of course I'm talking about America, I know that in countries like Saudi Arabia things are much tougher.

[@wowerman]

What next for feminism?Achieving more divide between men and women while still telling women when they need and want.

[@sociobiologist5141]

1:12:20 'Lenin said [...]'. Jesus...

[@NitushiLenoir]

My dream is to be a stay at home dad. Welfare king!

[@limpa756]

That's only socially acceptable as a woman, if men do that we get called losers and nobody would ever date us. We have to earn significantly more than our female counterparts despite the fact women earn more for less work now or we get called incels.

[@drkwngdck9963]

not explanatory or predictive or a "challenge to feminism"

[@sociobiologist5141]

57:49 Why has Helena's response been edited (READ: censored)?

[@jorge-7121]

Im a scientist . I suport Helena and Science 100%

[@djamiljo93]

"Neurologist"... talks like an ideologue and didn't mention a single thing about the brain

[@Doutsoldome]

1:08:39 Well said.

[@nieverainmaker384]

Dig half a pitch up

[@AK-salvador]

_"What's next for feminist?"_ Hopefully back to the kitchen

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

Can you not make a sandwich as well as you can make yourself?

[@factsdontcareaboutyourfeel7747]

Diabetes

[@rhysperegrine5100]

And here come all the angry twenty-something gamers who don't read books and instead spend all day either playing Skyrim or trawling the web obsessing over the "feminazis". You silly buggers.

[@babalaksa]

+RHYS PEREGRINE And people like you are exactly the reason everyone hates both feminism in particular and social justice warriors in general. Keep it up.

[@MatthewMcVeagh]

But obviously not everyone hates feminism or 'SJWs'. You're generalising your views to the totality.

[@Danny-lz1ek]

Get back to the ironing luv

[@markie1232]

BORRRRING

[@someonehihi8384]

Than don’t watch this but it is definitely not bc it is sad

[@thekitten9777]

Weird this has more dislikes than likes, are people that intimidated by women discussing things?

[@mensmans9241]

With the exception of Helena Cronin these people are so wrong about most of what they say. Men loose testosterone when performing nurturing tasks. You basically create a society of weak beta males whom in turn are completely uninteresting for women as deep down they want a real man. There is a reason women love 50 shades of grey. And the guy is ridiculous in saying women and men are just as good in most things. There are very few things that women are better at then man but many many things men are better at then women.

[@aretiskavantzou7115]

This video should be shown to all schools, to educate young men and women about the issues that feminism tackles; motherhood, parenthood, class, race, humanitarianism, egalitarianism, because it all depends on opportunities as Afua wittily pointed out. But then again, you can't really control the women if you educate them (and the men as well) can you?

[@joemwas5442]

Hahahahahahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha hahahaha. This video is full of feminist dogma and lies

[@prajwalsenthilkumar]

This video should be shown to all schools to educate young men and women about the garbage of cult of feminism.

[@ppwalk05]

What is next? Let me guess, more mindless complaining.