What Remains of Edith Finch & The Walking Simulator Problem

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I've never had a game more recommended to me than What Remains of Edith Finch, so I decided to give it a go and see what all the fuss was about. Here's 30 minutes of me talking, edited by my brother.
00:00 Why is a Walking Simulator?
06:12 The Evolution of Walking Simulators
14:53 The Situation Edith Finch found itself in
19:16 Let’s talk about What Remains of Edith Finch
25:49 Unreliable Narrators in Edith Finch
35:13 The Villain of What Remains of Edith Finch
38:52 The Burden of Walking Simulators
Twitch: / mertkaykay
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[@MertKayKay]

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[@TheGrinningViking]

Ugh, not raid. Why do they let minors have smart phones? If they aren't getting preyed on my creepy old men, it's by skinner box designers trying to reach into their pockets.

[@BiPhBiPhBiPhBiPh]

get that bag 😭😭😭

[@ninjaGrim1]

Aghhh, , jeezusfuk, took me a solid few mins to find you on the phone, even after typing in the first few letters of your channel or first few words of this vids name. Goldfish brains on my behalf, dumb algorithm on their behalf. You're doing really good! I'm here for your relatable shit, your solid research on shit I enjoy as a hobby most my life, all that good video essay nerd shit that you bring to the tube. Keep it up, pootube will soon realise that when I type in "Mer" i mean to find your channel.

[@thedenseone6443]

Maybe my brain's being fucky, but is this your first ever sponsorship? If so, good on ya, nice to see you finally getting noticed by well-known sponsors

[@MertKayKay]

@@thedenseone6443 aww thank you! I've had a couple until now but it's still very new 😌

[@bearlyplayinggames5252]

I like walking simulators because I hate exposition and I feel like walking sims usually tell their story through environment and puzzles. I like exploring the world on my own terms

[@MertKayKay]

Very true! I absolutely hate when games force me to sit down and listen to lots of stories. Walking sims have more strengths when it comes to weaving the story into the gameplay

[@toolatetothestory]

Other types of games that manage this quite well though are Souls likes (for the most part, there is very little talking), survival games are also not bad at that. Ironically the complete opposite of Walking Sims, those games are a lot more difficult. I have issues with walking simulators, because... most of it is exposition to me. They talk entire novels with relatively little you're doing in between.

[@AlhazredsGamingGoo]

That's not limited to this genre but, certainly, is fairly rare, even if less so than it used to be. Demons' Souls, Dark Souls, Bloodborne and Half-Life (specifically Half-Life 2) are excellent examples (and by extension also examples of games that get ragged on for having "no story" from morons who think "exposition = story and you must have every detail explained in-depth by a speaking character or the detail is 100% non-canon.")

[@KingRidley]

And random radio/diary drops. Mostly through radio/diary drops, because you're making a walking sim because character ai and animation is difficult. Which is fine but walking sims end up being almost exclusively exposition as a result.

[@night1952]

Really? I feel the opposite, walking sims are pure exposition dumps. Nothing but collecting notes and/or listening to people talk. I find Journey to be the exception, not the rule... Walking sims don't really have puzzles either, that'd make them puzzle games, at most they have "put the square in the square slot" interactions.

[@joshuamoore8560]

Y'know, I have a house situated on a cliff, a good hundred feet high, nothing but seashore and jagged rocks below. I've ALWAYS wanted to situate a swingset right there... but after playing this game, I've been disabused in that notion. Thank you, Edith Finch's stupid family. You did not die in vain.

[@cryptidonstrike]

“I also wanted to enjoy a moment of romanticized ignorance. It’s like taking a warm bath, but the water is lies.” Do you even understand how impeccable your line delivery is

[@MertKayKay]

I'm blushing

[@RedSpade37]

@@MertKayKay Seriously though, you're underrated. Sure, you have over 50k subs at the time of this comment, but you have a similar vibe to the 250k+ channels, and I think all of us are looking forward to your success! But, I've left like 4 new comments on your videos tonight, and I don't want to come across as a crazy person, so I'll just say I look forward to your next video!

[@MertKayKay]

@@RedSpade37 thank you so much Red!! Here's to many more videos to come 🍻 (but for real I appreciate this so much.😭)

[@rusted_ursa]

I cackled out loud at this line, and I rarely do that.

[@sterlinsilver]

My favorite kind of stories are the ones with what I call the "unprofessional narrator" style wherein the narrator really doesn't know what the hell they're talking about either

[@amharbinger]

I felt that the family had an issue with being mediocre. That they had some sort of greatest to them and this curse was this way of preventing them from achieving such. That's how I saw the endings for each person's life, as they achieved something amazing like flying or becoming a king right before they died. Many of the characters demostrated incredible talent but were cut short in life, and the curse was constantly the blame. Not the souless job draining their morale or the parent's stupid neglect, a scapegoat they couldn't fight or understand. When Edith's mother purposely took her away from her mother's home and sheltered her from her family's history only for her daughter, as a way to prevent this ideaology from passing on to her daughter, Edith still fell victim to the same outlook on life.

[@MertKayKay]

AM I have been binging FoundFlix before bed loads lately and I always see you chilling in his comment section with hundreds of likes on all your comments, just thriving. Nice to see we have that in common 😎 I see what you mean about achieving something in death! Like almost a martyrdom

[@cyb11114]

Honestly the story that got me was the one about the guy that was so wrapped up in his fantasy world while he cut off fish heads that he stop paying attention to what he was doing and was just accidently gone…. Like I cried really hard and had to put the game down for a few hours after that one hit way to close to home

[@guy-sl3kr]

That whole part I was anticipating him carelessly chopping his hand off but the real ending is so much worse. I'm pretty sure what he did was purposeful... there's no way he could have done something like that unintentionally

[@TheAbigailDee]

I BAWLED

[@harmonixdraws5298]

I honestly feel like things happen like that irl too and it's so sad

[@themumblingdumpling2838]

I had always thought it wasn't accidental... I felt like he just decided that his real life will always be mediocre, bland and boring, and he decided to... hm, move on to a different world, since anything was better than this gloomy reality.

[@ariannebrodeur]

Lewis' story is not only a really awesome moment of gameplay but it's an amazing representation of maladaptive daydreaming both in the gameplay and the storytelling of it and you really don't expect it to go as hard as it does but it makes sense. His death is one of the most brutal bc it is insinuated he did it fully willingly, and not only isolated are s*icidal thoughts something a lot of people relate to, but when you look at Lewis' life, it makes even more horrible sense. The poor kid was surrounded by death and a dysfunctional suffocating family. I mean jesus so many lost family members, a dead baby and a missing brother, on top of his own mental health problems? He hits so close for so many and he's definitely my favorite story and favorite character from What Remains of Edith Finch. It's such a tragic and beautifully executed story

[@kill4karma]

I think part of someone's initial perception on the curse and it's reality depends a lot on their lives and childhood. I didn't notice until later that it was about neglect because I didn't have a great childhood. Being sent to bed without dinner or being left alone when I was angry was very normal to me growing up so I didn't notice. I did think that the idea of the curse and it's inevitably made them careless but I never put the word neglect on it until... Now? You're totally right but I wouldn't worry about missing out on that

[@moxiemaxie3543]

I'm confused. I grew up with a mother who I was temporarily taken away from because of neglect. I don't think good or bad childhood impacts if you notice. Its more so people rather entertain the supernatural reason was more easy to digest than except the real world. Make excuses to not see til its thrown in your face. A baby drowning in a tub is child neglect. Starving Molly, a child, is child neglect. Letting kids swing on a broken tree over a cliff is negligent 😂.

[@vaiapatta8313]

​@@moxiemaxie3543 to be fair, you wouldn't normally expect a 10-year-old child to do something as stupid as eat toothpaste, even if they missed dinner. Say what you will about denying your child dinner as punishment, but no one could reasonably expect death as an outcome.

[@natecorbin5216]

I've got nothing against walking simulators, I just prefer to watch other people play them and/or comment on them. I've never found one that was engaging enough to hold my interest (as if that's some great prize to be sought after) but people theorizing, discussing, and joking while they work through the story makes it all much more palatable.

[@MertKayKay]

I agree! They're always some of the best discussions but dang they can be appalling to play

[@throughcolouredglasses9300]

That's so interesting! I'm the exact opposite. I prefer to watch other people play games that require quick reflexes, so basically any combat game ever. They're SO stressful to me, I panic way too easily! All those story-heavy zombie games with the nice graphics from a few years ago drove me insane because I still want to know the story, i enjoy the world building, i like doing the exploration parts, interacting with the world, turning over every stone to get all bits of narrative. But man I can't imagine anything less fun than the stress of trying to coordinate weapons and manage an inventory where i don't remember half the things and am out of the other half, while having to remember what buttons reload and which ones switch weapons, how much ammo I have left and which weapon even did what. All while pressed for time, facing several enemies who come at you at once, and having to figure out how to move and where I'm meant to go. I wish i could play all the big name games of the last decade, but without the combat. I want to enjoy the world and explore the lore and story in peace, without having to lose my shit every few minutes from being forced into fighting for my life xD

[@truegemuese]

I am suprised you overlooked that the person on the ferry in the beginning is not Edith Finch, but her child.

[@MertKayKay]

Really annoyingly I noticed it when I was recording the footage and I was hitting myself

[@moxiemaxie3543]

But thats not really important because she explained that already. She just didn't say names and doesn't need to because its not important to the specific exploration

[@moxiemaxie3543]

I quickly noticed the curse was their method of deflecting personal responsibility for negligent homicide

[@local_cryptid]

What Remains of Edith Finch is one of my favorite games, but I was always confused that it was branded as horror. There's some slight existential dread there, sure, but to me it was always a story about the fantastical improbability of life and the beauty and tragedy of the bizarre. Only Walter seemed truly afraid of his fate, possibly because that was the only story that didnt necessarily get passed directly down- Edie never told anyone he was hiding it the house the entire time, after all; the other family members had a sort of almost whimsy to how they met their ends, possibly fueled by Edie's take on it, but definitely distinctly influenced by their own personalities at the same time.

[@ondiiina]

I felt like Barbara's death also shaped his view on the "curse". She got murdered while he was in the house. He heard, and maybe saw, most of it. We know her tale was transformed to be even more fantastical, and so does he. Since he experienced directly instead of hearing Edie tell it, it didn't have the same impact on him. The others were just that -stories. He didn't know what truly happened so he couldn't be actively scared of it. So combine the trauma of witnessing his sister's brutal death, making his home unsafe, with the belief that there is a curse that killed her and every other family member, and will kill you and you get some really paranoid person. I'd bet that they insisted that Barbara died because of the curse rather than murder and took no precaution. After all, why would they if it's just the family curse? No way it would happen again! Also I felt like Walter's death was shared as soon as he got out. Edie was waiting for the end to his tale before revealing where the kid went because that's what interests her: how her family dies. That's why his retelling is the most realistic. It's already "crazy" enough to fit in so there weren't many changes to it. Sadly, it also proved to the rest of the family that trying to avoid the curse is useless

[@mykal4779]

I thought the strongest theme of the game was letting go of grief, moving on, living for the present rather than the past. That seemed to me like the main conflict between Dawn and Edie; Edie made the house a memorial and wanted to tell and retell the stories, never wanted to leave the house, Dawn didn't like telling the stories and seals off the rooms completely, Edie drills peepholes in them. Edie wouldn't even leave her creepy cemetary house when she knew staying would mean missing medication and dying. She was so stuck in the past she couldn't actually live and love in the present (tying in with the negligence thing you mentioned). think this is hammered home at the end, when Edith Jr. asks her son not to be sad that his mom is dead, but be grateful for the time he has, and also especially Walter's death ("I'm happy leaving the house even if it means I only get to live one new day" or something like that.

[@darkmodeaj]

How did I miss that it was about neglect, when there's literally a baby that dies in a bath tub

[@Vullvure]

Beyond being unreliable narrators, I think this game represent how our human perception will never be complete reality and how stories and myths can actually shape how a person perceive the things that they have seen, that they see and the ones they will see.

[@daisy-td9qs]

Interestingly, clocking the unreliable narrator immediately didn't take away the whimsical fantasy of the game to me. Like I could experience it in awe while still thinking abt how it relates to what the irl explanation probably is, and then matching up the fantasy elements to their connecting irl counterparts made it even more fun

[@MertKayKay]

I'm really glad to hear it Daisy! I have no idea why it bothered me so much 😂

[@daisy-td9qs]

@@MertKayKay Thank you :) I didn't catch the fact that she was pregnant like you did until after the reveal though and I feel like that would have made me a lot more disappointed

[@allen6187]

I was the same! I loved comparing the fantasy versions with what likely happened in reality, and it was interesting to see firsthand how the fantasy was clung to in order to avoid truly processing the grief of so many family members dying before their time (as well as cope with the fact that Edie at the very least struggled with the idea of being ordinary)

[@daisy-td9qs]

@@allen6187 100 percent!

[@friedmattato2158]

I have a similar problem of taking things literally and as they appear a lot in games. It's why I watch so many video essays so my dumb--dumb brain can get things I missed on first pass.

[@raiorai2]

Sounds really fun to play games with you and theorize about them. I'm the kind of person that seens *too much* symbolism and loses the point lmao

[@clydeburns3884]

I didn't really give too much thought about what was happening during Molly's portion because I kind of assumed that the rest of the game would give similarly fantastical takes about what happened to everyone. But as I got to the more realistic stories and I started noticing how unsafe everything was it made the game more impactfull for me. Like sure it's obvious how dangerous and stupid it is to have a swing on the side of a cliff or to leave your baby in the tub, but when I noticed these things it didnt take me out of the experience with how absurd it was to blame a curse on this stuff, it actually pulled me in and made me feel like I was a part of this family in a way. Like I KNOW this character is going to die, I can SEE EXACTLY what can cause it, and I'm DREADING the moment that he flies of the cliff, but there's also nothing I can do about it because if it isn't Now he'll just meet some other terrible end Later. I don't know if I'm being very clear, but I kind of veiwed everything through a lens that if I saw my own siblings doing something dangerous but I've been told my entire life that we were cursed to die in strange and sudden ways I'd probably give up, not out of lack of care or love for my family but because it's not like I can change fate and regardless of what I do to keep them safe they still ARE going to die whether Im ready for it or not. That mindset didn't keep me from being just about nonstop sobbing near the end of the game though, or from tearing up while typing out this comment. I loved the video, it really made me think about how the stories of the game are told and gave me a more mature perspective of the game!

[@presleyb5408]

I knew from the beginning of EF that the story was more grounded in reality than the short story parts let on, like Molly’s entry more than likely being a hallucination from poisoning - but I think the common theme of all the segments didn’t actually hit me until the bathroom segment. Like. The moment it loaded I suddenly realized what was about to happen and it was a gut punch.

[@FTZPLTC]

I'vw realised that "there's not enough gameplay!" is one of the worst possible criticisms to level at a genre where the lack of gameplay is literally *why* something is in that genre. As you say, if it has more gameplay, it ceases to be classified as a walking simulator. I think these games should be recognised as successors to the old text adventures and point and click games of the 80s and 90s. And I'd remind anyone scornful of them that Myst was insanely popular, and that game is a walking sim to its very core.

[@MertKayKay]

Definitely agree! I think to give a walking simulator too much gameplay would entirely change the genre 🤣 I used to criticise walking Sims for not having enough gameplay until I realised I was kind of missing the point

[@MTLion3]

I loved unraveling the story of Edith Finch. I could see the fantasy the veiled the game’s reality, but it didn’t stop it all from being real, in a way. This is how these people saw the world - like Pyro taking the torch to everything but just seeing rainbows in their wake. The end reveal of Edith already having passed and these events being in her journal had me bawling up for a solid 10 minutes. Another tragedy of the Finch line - another victim to Edy’s bullshit curse. Poetic, tragic, beautiful

[@daisy-td9qs]

I think my favourite walking simulator is still Edith Finch because the last message the story leaves off on "It's a lot to ask, but I don't want you to be sad that I'm gone. I want you to be amazed that any of us ever had a chance to be here at all" really resonated with me, especially after all the unique memories we just lived through. The dialogue, visual design, and interactive elements in that game in general are just amazing though. A really cool walking simulator(?)/visual novel that I've seen lately though is the Slay the Princess demo because it makes you question the narrative on multiple fronts and asks you to make very interesting considerations: the narrator seems to be hiding things from you, but so does the "princess" you've been sent to kill. Each also seems to have some sort of power over the world of the game, but you can never be sure of how much because they've been proven to be untrustworthy. For example [BIG SPOILER ALERT]: the narrator seems to have no memory of the time loops the game world goes through, but he is able to warp the game world so that you are forced to go down a certain path and even take control of you body at certain points, so how can you be sure that he isn't lying about that? Similarly, it seems like your choices cause the character of the princess to change form, but in some routes it seems like she has a bit of that ability on her own. So, how much of her changes are conscious? And how much of it is being forced on her by your decisions?

[@local_cryptid]

I cant WAIT for Slay the Princess to come out

[@ohno4930]

Sort of a tangent, but if anyone reading this likes Slay the Princess and isn't aware- the creators have another game they're working on that I heavily recommend called Scarlet Hollow! There's a planned seven chapters with four having come out in December. It doesn't have the same sort of reality-bending/multiple reality/meta themes as STP so if that's the main draw to you, you might not like it, but it's amazing in its own right. I don't think I've ever actually seen a 'choices matter' game make it feel so much like every little choice *does* matter, and that's partially because it has a dynamic relationship system that one of the devs made from scratch. It's somewhat heavy, has a lot of themes of generational trauma/abuse, but I think it writes those really well. (not to mention, Abby's art is as good and appropriately disturbing as you'd expect) It's tied with something else for my favorite game of all time.

[@Omnywrench]

When I first played WRoEF, I remember approaching the house with a feeling of childlike nostalgia and wonder, because at first glance it was basically my dream house as a kid. I always wanted to live in a big sprawling mansion full of lots of rooms and secret passages connecting them (less so nowadays, but I still love secret passages). When she told the story of the "dragon" that killed their dad I dismissed it as someone trying to comfort a young child by adding a bit of fantasy to an otherwise tragic death or, alternatively, Eidith as a little kid misinterpreted what she was told about the death of her father, confused from the trauma of losing him. When I got to the first sealed room I thought "oh, that's a bit eccentric, but sweet in a weird way", like they were simply preserving her memory like how some parents who lose children hang on to their baby blankets or toys as a way of remembering. But when I went through the memories of eating toothpaste and berries, that's when the wonder turned to horror, and it just got progressively worse as I went through the house.

[@Diphenhydra]

I’ve said it since I first played it, the fact that the HORROR scene with the character Barbara has monsters approaching her and they don’t say “we’re coming to get you Barbara” is a crime. But like, shoutout the John Carpenter music.

[@godmagnus]

The secret to a good walking simulator is comfortable shoes.

[@PhuongTran-yj7wz]

I like this comment 😊😊😊

[@charcoalangel7536]

This video reminded me of the discussion around Andy's Apple Farm. Depending on how much analog horror you've watched over the years the game is either a refreshing take on the horror genre or incredibly bland. For me I couldn't get through the first 10 minutes because a few days before I'd watched The Walten Files: Bunny Farm which was clearly a huge inspiration for Andy's.

[@Freedomerider]

I love the creator though, absolutely lovely woman.

[@net_has]

“The house is full of batmen” incredible sentence that somehow makes sense

[@TheAbigailDee]

What Remains is what got me into Walking Simulators. The story had me gasping, crying, fuming... I loved it. And I will consume all content about it! Especially when it's created by someone as talented as you!

[@MertKayKay]

Abigail you are too kind! Really glad you liked the video and the game itself :D

[@allen6187]

I always kind of saw the pieces of these family member’s lives being preserved so heavily as the result of Edie’s place as the family matriarch. She kept everything and memorialized everyone she lost in grand ways, and if anyone tried to stop her, she would find a way around it. Dawn is the only one who seemingly fought against Edie perfectly preserving each family member’s space as it was at their death, and even then, it seems like she only did so by sealing the stuff away, rather than throwing it out. It makes me think that Edie wouldn’t let her do so, or maybe she didn’t even think about it until it was too late to try. It’s also seems like Dawn avoids grief by hiding things away (the opposite of Edie, who preserves things). This makes me think that maybe she avoided the sections of the house that contained the memorials, which might be why she didn’t get rid of things like the pictures of her dad’s death.

[@vhs3760]

I don't mind that it's two hours of just watching - this type of story could never be told in the same way with a movie, so walking simulator it will be.

[@Persephone01]

We were never explicity told about Barbara and her death is quite sad. I think Barbara definately had the crutches. She also had a case of beer under her bed. So maybe she was drinking with Rick one night. He decided to scare her with the monster mask and she runs away on her crutches. She trips over the roller skate and falls to her death :( Rick literally bolts. We do not know what happened to him. Edie covers it up and embellishes the story by the comic. Walter was under the bed the whole time. The whole Hookman/Serial Killer was made up. Or perhaps Rick didnt exist. It was some crazed fan who went over the fence (was broken into) and as Barbara was getting away, it caused her death. Its so sad about this game and its brilliantly done.

[@Newhandle16]

Did anyone else notice when watching Encanto how many direct similarities it has with What Remains of Edith Finch? I have not had anyone to point this out to.

[@raydaug4633]

I think you may be underselling Spec Ops: The Line a bit. It wasn't just "maybe killing people is bad," it was also "maybe we need to be conscious and critical of the military industrial complexes co-opting of the entertainment industries in order to glorify and normalize American troops marching through the middle east and killing people in the name of 'helping' them." The game was developed during (but released after the end of) the US invasion and subsequent occupation of Iraq. It is about meta narratives in games, but it is also a game about propaganda and American military adventurism. It was very much a protest game, rooted in a particular time and place both in terms of game development and world history. And it being a protest game about a specific topic is a major reason why it has lost a lot of its bite so many years later.

[@AlexisHiemis]

One thing that I have noticed and I think most people don't seem to notice is that the house we perceive in the game probably does not look like that or exist in that state. I think the built-on rooms are another metaphor for how the family is obsessed with the deaths occuring in it, never really moving on from them, but instead glorifying them and keeping them around like weird trophies. The rooms built onto rooms to me read like a metaphor for people not really living inside their own home, but giving up their space to the dead and their presence. Another thing I think is in the background of all this is the theme of mental health, including hoarding and delusions. All family members seem to have rich inner lifes and a lot of imagination, being authors, actors, magicians, painters, storytellers. But also, it's implied that they keep all the stuff around that belongs to other people, all rooms are filled with stuff. I think this is also where the 'built-upon' nature of the house is relevant, since Edie keeps all these memories and belongings around and so does the rest of her family, which hints at hoarding. Hoarding also creates unsafe environments for the people living in a house. I think that's why Ediths mother, who was the most removed from the mental health struggles and wrote non-fiction stuff, hinting at her far less fantastical orientation, decided to take Edith away from the house. I think this is why I took away something different from the game: That rewriting your own history to fit your need instead of confronting the real issues (your mental health, your inability to focus on your children and their quality of life) will ultimately be to their detriment and to yours as well. This family probably went through enormous amounts of grief and still does, as we see Edith is not around to care for her child as well. They can't let go of the things that ultimately harm them, because they perceive it too much as an innate quality of their family, even though it's obviously causing them great pain.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

They really needed a Marie Kondo in their lives :(

[@jazz-e-ternity]

The Stanley parable was the first game I played and honestly I think that is the reason I'm obsessed with critically understanding themes etc in games and media. Like as a completely new player I followed the instructions the narrator provided because I didn't know better, how could I this was the first time I had touched wasd keys, and I accidentally opened the Broom closet because the narrator commented on how Stanley tried lots of doors or something like that only to hear the narrator comment that there was nothing there. I made note and moved on but on the 2nd time I decided to enter because funny side remark and that was when I started questioning 'what if I didn't do what he said here?' That one thought was my down spiral next thing I know the narrator is commenting on free will and having the ability to decide etc.

[@HollowRoll]

Good video, though I somewhat disagree with the thesis. I don't play games like this for their storytelling techniques, I play them for the story that they're telling. So I don't feel that having seen media with unreliable narrators makes the games listed less impactful. And from the beginning I was never trying to figure out the curse, like you I could immediately tell this story was about neglect. Edit: Especially since I recognized the berries as Holly, which is very toxic, and bad to have in reach of a child. I also didn't read Edith saying "maybe these stories should die with me" as hammering in the point. Rather I see it as showing that, even though Edith and especially her mother attempted to fight back against the idea of the curse, they both worked to continue the harmful legacy. Dawn gave Edith the key, and Edith gave her child the journal, and in doing so furthered the mythos that led to the negligent deaths of the entire family.

[@CommissarMitch]

"A smile with too many teeth" is a solid allegory.

[@ellyelly7235]

This game broke me. Mainly because my circumstances are jarringly similar to Lewis'... I cried for an hour. And I really wasn't expecting it. You don't really think "suicide" when you hear "tragic death due to a family curse".

[@wiiink]

a meta game that does something really unique imo is OneShot. You aren't really the character you play as but are regarded as a god sent to help them on their quest, it also has a beautiful story and cool puzzles involving finding hidden files on your laptop like Dokidoki but executed even better

[@KatKit52]

So, you talked about the cycle that tropes/genres/themes go through: someone says "X" and people discuss it until they get bored with it and someone else goes "X but Y"; and then everyone discusses "X and Y" until that gets boring so a third someone says "X and Y"; and the discussion continues until someone says "what about just X" and the cycle begins anew. And this cycle has always been happening. Even the ancient Greek classics did this; first you had the stories of Hercules and Theseus, then we had the Illiad and the Odyssey that expanded and deconstructed the tropes of Hercules and Theseus, then the Aeneid (not Greek, but Romans taking inspiration from the Greeks) took from the Illiad and Odyessey, then Rick Riordan (also not Greek or Roman, but taking inspiration from them) took from all of them. Centuries separate these works, but they're cycling through the same "X > X but Y > X and Y > just X again" cycle. And then compare these century-long cycles with the modern day examples you gave, where these cycles happen sometimes multiple times within the same decade. I think it's like you mentioned with the internet: every stage of this cycle is being picked apart at mach-speed due to the internet. Now, when someone says X, we only have to wait a year or two instead of centuries, for every bit of X to have been redone and repackaged and picked over like vultures over a beaten horse; and then someone goes "X but Y", restarting the content machine. Or, as is the case you mentioned of the unreliable narrator, X becomes so ingrained within culture, it's no longer considered "X", but simply part of what makes something a story. It's no longer a twist for the nice tutorial giver to be lying to you--of course Flowey Undertale is evil and trying to kill you, haven't you played Portal? But then you have the real shock of Toriel. The trope of "seemingly sweet old lady lures child to their house with sweets but oh no she's actually evil and wants to kill/eat the child" is literally centuries old, and isn't even considered a twist anymore, just a trope of itself. Of course the sweet old lady wants to trap Frisk in her home and won't let them leave, haven't you read Hansel and Gretel? But then, you have the modern day trope "twist" of Flowey right before the *real* centuries old trope "twist" of Toriel really just being a sweet old lady who wants to bake pies for Frisk and keep them safe. It's a double twist--after Flowey, you think you know that you can't trust seemingly nice characters, but then it turns out that other characters do actually do nice things simply because they don't want this human child to die. Also, I can't resist mentioning Homestuck in regards to Undertale. It's not known exactly how close they were/are (both are notoriously private individuals) but Toby Fox did work with Hussie during Homestuck's heyday. And you can find the same metafiction themes in Homestuck as in Undertale; only Homestuck's meta-fiction is more focused on a book/movie-style experience, while Undertale takes those concepts and puts them in a video game. Which is also interesting because Homestuck is *about* a video game. The meta-fiction is between the characters and the readers, conveyed through a book/movie, but it is in the context of a video game. Then Toby actually made a game to convey the metafiction. And finally: I think 34:54 describes what I like most about metafiction stories. Most of the time, when you're reading a metafiction story, the first round is just confusion. No matter what genre, it will make you confused. My favorite metafiction story was more than just confusing on the first go-round and was honestly an enjoyable magical girl show (Revolutionary Girl Utena, great anime but mind the trigger list), but even that had a huge dose of "wait what's going on". In metafiction, you don't get to the real genre of the story until the second or third time--for RGU, you don't really get the magic system of the magical girl story until you've seen it a second time; for Edith Finch, you have to re-play the game to really get the horror of "wait, why does Edie have an article calling her own son a mole-man? Why do they still have the pictures of Sam's moment of death? Why are Dawn and her children forced to live in rickety dangerous-looking extensions to the house attic when there's a bunch of perfectly use-able rooms welded shut? Why is there a fucking *ear* in here?" Maybe it's just me, but the idea that Edie would rather make her family a whole new wing (and not even a very well-built one, it seems) then clean out the rooms that are already there is just...so weird to me. Not just because it feels wasteful but like... at the risk of sounding like a Disney villain, they ain't getting any deader. My bedroom furniture and some childhood toys were passed down from my grandparents. The dollhouse I played with, the books on my bookshelf, the bed I still sleep in today--the people who these items were made for are dead. But when I needed a bed to sleep in, toys to play with, and books to read, instead of keeping them locked away in remembrance, my family gave them to me. Edie shut away her granddaughter and great-grandchildren in the house's "attic", only allowing them to look through peepholes into other rooms, like they're not even good enough to step foot into those rooms. Yes, I can understand wanting to keep mementos of loved ones, especially children who died tragically and way too soon; and yes, I can understand that people might be uncomfortable with sleeping in the literal bed a ten-year-old died in. But by refusing to remove this museum displays, Edie was literally forcing her remaining family--Dawn and her children--out of the house...but at the same time, she refuses to let them go, keeping them in these literally precarious and isolating rooms at the top of the house. Anyway, I'm gonna reiterate that you should watch RGU if you like meta-narrative. The show is completely free on KZbin, fully subbed. It covers themes of systemic abuse (sexism, racism, homo/transphobia, and the main antagonist is an adult man using his position of authority to take advantage of middle school girls) and interpersonal abuse (sexual, physical, emotional; both between romantic partners and siblings). However, though it does get heavy, I personally think it's worth it as the ending, unlike a lot of magical girl deconstructions, is not a sad one--it ends with the two female leads being in confirmed romantic love and empowering each other to escape their abusive situations together. It gets compared to Madoka Magica a lot, but honestly, RGU turned into a car so Madoka Magica could walk.

[@MertKayKay]

I can't give this incredible comment the time it needs as I'm replying on my phone while at a coffee shop, but the insight into old Greek lit was absolutely fascinating and your unpacking of Edie's behaviour especially was so insightful 🥰 thank you very very much for sharing this

[@treetheoak8313]

If books are analogous to video games. Then walking Sims would be the novellas or short stories of the genre.

[@batjackgames6838]

I've always liked walking simulators for some reason, I guess just being able to walk around in a world is something I've not really been able to do in real life, and a story experience is just like icing for me. Edith Finch has been one of my all time fav games since I first played it. The world and house you get to explore intrigue me no matter how many times I walk through it, the story even though I couldn't relate exactly really touched me and the way the narration appears on screen just really appealed to me for some reason.

[@GeekGirlSarah]

From what I've seen of your content, it strikes me that you'd probably really enjoy Inscryption, and it has an infinite replay mod with it's own fun little story bits. The game really does a great job with atmosphere and keeping a core gameplay hook that makes it sometimes hard to remember to go look for secrets because of how engrossing it is.

[@gliscorpropagandaaccount1764]

heehoo I also recommended inscryption on another vid. same braincell :)

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

ALL OF THAT! Inscryption is one of the best we've seen.

[@underscorlove1742]

Walking simulators will always have a special place for me as someone who greatly struggles with action games. I am someone who whenever they are thinking about getting a game they look up the accessiblity settings, so walking simulators are always a safe spot for me. Walking simulators are the one type of game where I don't have to worry about being unable to beat it. Halo is one that I have never beaten, I want to try again, but I just have not been able to push past, I keep dying. I appreciate how there is never any pressure on skill unlike in other games where either the game itself or at least the community will not say you've beaten it if you beat the game on easy. Even if for some of us that's the only way we could ever win.

[@xRaiofSunshine]

I didn’t catch onto the neglectful parents at all when I first watched a play through of it, but that was before I had any real idea on how to apply that sort of critical thought to things like stories and video games. Honestly, that sorta makes it more relatable, because my own parents were sorta neglectful of my needs growing up. Not to any real harm, but that doesn’t make it hurt any less. And I think that’s what feels like what’s missing from this narrative; this cycle of neglect is just repeating itself all over again because people just keep coming back relive all these tragedies uncritically. It’s picking at a scab over and over again, refusing to let it heal because you don’t really want it to heal, but does the game acknowledge that? Is it a cautionary tale, are we invited to think this is some sort of Greek tragedy, or does the game itself buy a little too much into the romanticized stories of death and trauma? Because the cycle is clearly continuing; Edith’s mom gave her the key to the house when she died, even when we KNOW that the entire reason she fled was to get away from all of that. Hell, Edith probably did something harmful to herself because she was climbing all around the house while PREGNANT; and now her kid is returning to all of this with a cast on their arm, presumably in the foster care system because they’re the last remaining member of the Finch family. Will Edith’s kid continue this harmful legacy, or break free of it? Or maybe that’s completely bullshit because I don’t remember much about the ending, it’s been awhile since I’ve seen it ._.’ The neglectful aspects of the family only hit some time later when I watched another review on the game and one of the comments pointed out how awful everyone was.

[@addoworkman2173]

I think one of the more fruitful aspects of this game's meta narrative isn't just about all these characters and negligence but it's attempt at nuance in that neglect resulting in death gives a reason to immortalize the victims as something more than they were through unreliable narration-be it self imposed or not. I say "attempt" because even if that comes across a lot, I don't think it holds up in the wake of it's message and ultimately just makes the family even more alienating, rather than relatable. The added nuance in making the house almost impossible to fundamentally get through is also an awesome touch that physically brings the family's agoraphobic-esque curse a shape and form. It's something I really liked and I also thought there would be more puzzles involving each environment and found that really disappointing because it really was a manifestation of not just what the family members are telling you in their own individual stories, but a window in exactly what they aren't telling you-the grief that comes with losing so many young people, the accumulation of objects and the difficulty to take charge in managing a dead loved one's things. I think the younger the victim is (Gregory for example), the harder it is for me to care about this family or their "curse" when it becomes a framework of their collective perceptions rather than that of an actual-literal-curse within the narrative. Especially when deaths like that happen ALL the time and are literal tragedies that are/were avoidable, it can make the game feel like whiplash in some portions and just underhanded in others. I think you're right though, there is just...something missing to really give it a push. Sorry this is long, but a final thought on your minor comparisons to games like Bioshock, Soma, Rapture and Portal-I think you're right on all accounts on them but one thing that made those games in particular and their twists so impactful is that they had a heavy socio-political identity that is straight up missing in Edith. Not that I think Edith needs it, I just think Games like Bioshock and Portal in particular were risky in that they had a setting that had a very heavy political framework that really took FPS for a loop.

[@plaguedoctorjamespainshe6009]

Maybe the real family curse was the friends we made along the way

[@thatguyzorv6650]

As someone from a big family with a long, storied, (and little known outside the family,) past I loved edith finch. It really felt like being with my family.

[@jaydedepato6995]

"It's like a nice warm bath, except the water is lies. 😃" -MertKayKay, 2022

[@JohnDoe-uf3lj]

I’ll never install Raid, but dammit, I’m happy to see you making some of that sponsor money. I have this game on PS4, yet another on my to do list 😂

[@JokerCrowe]

If you have a PC, I highly suggest playing this game on there. The controls feel more fluid, and especially one section works 100x better with mouse and keyboard.

[@MertKayKay]

I sat on this game for a LONG time before I finally tried it, hopefully you get to it soon! :D I think it's worthwhile

[@godmagnus]

@@JokerCrowe Raid or Edith? They patched the console version of Edith to 4k 60fps. And what part of Edith isn't super easy? You can just say the character.

[@JokerCrowe]

@@godmagnus Edith works better on pc, specifically the Lewis section.

[@an_unraveling_unknown]

I just get the biggest serotonin boost watching these videos, oh my w o r d- /pos May I add that whilst there are excellent visuals, this is excellent background for drawing or otherwise :D

[@MertKayKay]

My videos being your background noise is the biggest honour, thank you so much!

[@an_unraveling_unknown]

You are very welcome! You make wonderful content for it, thank you so much ^^

[@notuslethe]

I'm not sure I've ever experienced something in media like the absolute shock I felt with the "Would you kindly" reveal in Bioshock. If I don't pick it up (like you did with Edith Finch), for some reason I am absolutely floored by unreliable narrator reveals - its one of my favorite tropes to encounter in the wild because of how it plays with what you've experienced in the game and subverts your assumptions. Which I suppose is what they're designed to do. I feel like Edith Finch works on this because it isn't a twist so much as a slow reveal - as you said, it's almost a horror game, or at least a horrific game, where the almost religious fervency of their belief in the curse undercuts their lives. It stops them from taking ordinary precautions and sets them up from the very start for an inevitable tragic fate; not because of a curse, but because they fulfilled all the parameters to enable it. Had one of them just said - no, I don't believe it, I won't let that happen. Edith went back, even Christopher returned - like, to make all the tragedy "mean" something, they had to perpetuate it, or otherwise it'd be invalidated. I also feel your pain with that 'realization' you had early on. Sometimes, I'll "get" what a piece of media is trying to do and while it doesn't always ruin it, it certainly colors the experience differently. You approach it more from the perspective of someone conducting an analysis rather than a person enjoying it or looking to get immersed in the presentation. If I'm watching a Jim Henson production, I can see the complex puppets with their obvious movements, the well-made sets, the painted backdrops and appreciate the amount of work that went into creating that artform, but it somehow can feel disingenuous from enjoying the actual beauty of product. Both ways have merit.

[@underscorlove1742]

I personally adore this game mostly for nostalgia purposes. As kid growning up on KZbin seeing What Remains of Edith Finch was the first example of games having depth that I was ever exposed to. This game was the first time I was ever able to see games as being able to do more than just be loud. I feel like this game just sits a little better with a younger audience, one that's not so cynical. I was maybe 7 when I found this game and as I was a very similar age to many of the characters the story just sat better with me than others and because I was young and hadn't gotten tired of any of these tropes yet. I was able to lose myself in the fantasy of it all. The controls were also not much of a bother for me, I played on mouse and keyboard which has the opposite problem of controller where everything is far too difficult (I was fairly young when I played this game maybe 10 or so, so it may have just been me), but the simple walking simulator format was perfect for introducing me to more complex stories.

[@Predathis]

I think what made what remains of edith finch a cool game for me was the fact it told multiple stories in order to tell the bigger overarching story which I thought was neat. I also really need walking sims to be super linear like it was. Cant stand walking around massive areas randomly at a snails pace until you find the next story bit and can continue. It's not a style of game I turn to regularly, but im super glad I played this one. Interesting too that all the stories are told with a happy tone, but a grim "real world" end, I really liked that juxtaposition. Like no, the kid didn't yeet off of a swing down a cliff, he learned to fly. The way they show the empire that dude ruled in his head, but then hard cuts to him completely out of it at his job, etc. Did not expect to see games like spec ops mentioned haha. I feel it sits in that group of games that made a big splash when they came out but hard to compare to now because of how much time as passed and how many games copy/evolve what they did. Like yeah spec ops isnt changing anyone's world now, but back in a sea of brown, gritty shooters I think it certainly had an effect. Also the making of doco of that game is super interesting, if you've got some time to kill would recommend giving it a watch. Was fun heading down the rabbit hole and pumped to see whats next, great to have ya back

[@MertKayKay]

Pred you light up my day 😎 thanks for watching! I agree; I think using several stories to tell one big one is what really made this game stand out, especially considering how different all the stories played!

[@EngineerMonkey-zp3yj]

I think the secret to making the perfect walking sim is contained inside of a vault within the Krusty Krab and we need only to nab the secret formula to find out.

[@maddiepamperin643]

My favorite type of games are walking sims. I do agree there is a certain degree of replay-ability but I love the stories and lore behind them. I will never forget playing what remains and getting to Lewis's story. Watching him slowly disconnect from reality and "getting crowned" made by jaw drop and I audibly gasped. It left me with a feeling I remember vividly to this day.

[@DaimyoD0]

27:55 Some example numbers I found. Not bothering too much with significant figures, and there is a chemistry issue I'm not sure how to answer here, so we'll offer a range of answers. A tube of toothpaste: 170g Average toothpaste fluoride content by weight: 0.05%-0.15% 170g * 0.0005 = 0.085g = 85mg low end 170g * 0.0015 = 0.255g = 255mg high end Fluoride is usually added to toothpaste in the form of sodium fluoride salt (NaF). I don't know if the figure above includes the weight of the (heavier) sodium or not. NaF is ~42g/mol, F is ~19g/mol, meaning NaF is ~45.25% fluorine by weight. If this is the case, our estimate of actual fluoride per tube of toothpaste is ~38mg on the low end and ~115mg on the high end One estimate for the minimum human lethal dose of fluoride is 5mg/kg of bodyweight. I found this on a highly biased website, the Fluoride Action Network, which generally panders to pseudoscientific attacks on municipal water fluoridation, but it seems they directly quote a real scientific article: Whitford GM. (1990). The physiological and toxicological characteristics of fluoride. Journal of Dental Research 69(Spec Issue):539-49. If we suppose a body weight for Molly, one average offered for a 10 years old child is 32kg. That would make an estimated potentially lethal dose 5mg/kg * 32kg = 160mg. Our two dosage ranges for a single tube of toothpaste were 38mg-115mg and 85mg-255mg That means a lethal dose for a child who could potentially be the size of Molly is well within the range of what could be contained in a single tube of toothpaste. Even if the lower of the two ranges is correct, it is very disconcertingly close, close enough that a deviation from any of these estimates (lower bodyweight, larger tube of toothpaste, a higher sensitivity to fluoride) could still put the lower dosage into potentially lethal territory. And that's not even accounting for sub-lethal symptoms of poisoning, or the high toxicity of holly berries, assuming that Edith Finch's assumption of what type of berries Molly ate is correct. So I definitely learned something today. Of course, for a healthy adult, the amount of toothpaste you'd have to eat in order to be dangerous would likely need to be intentional (and a horrifically unpleasant experience) but nonetheless I had no idea that this posed such a realistic risk to a confused child. The unfortunate side effect of putting a poison control label on everything these days is that it's hard to tell what's seriously poisonous and what is just the State of California telling you that wood shavings will give you cancer. Great review, I really enjoyed your analysis.

[@MertKayKay]

This was absurdly interesting to read, thank you very much for sharing. I don't know when I'll ever need this information but it was very cool :D

[@DaimyoD0]

@@MertKayKay You'll use this information the next time you eat a few tubes of toothpaste, of course. You mean to tell me you don't consider your daily toothpaste consumption, and how much you can get away with? 🙃 Always happy to provide some useless, mildly interesting scientific analysis.

[@honeybea4845]

I thought I was overzealous and/or going insane when I realized how dire those children's situations were. like, I would NOT have my children wander alone in that Saw-trap of a house, and I don't even have any kids.

[@kingofallpie]

My favorite walking sim is the bit from Bioshock: Burial At Sea where you just wander around a parisian market. Only meant to take about five minutes of playtime but I can (and have) easily spend an hour taking in all the scenery until I'm ready to get into the game proper

[@unhingedunit562]

It was so fun to see Rapture before everything went to hell, I think I spent a bit over an hour just looking around and taking everything in.

[@thatonekarissa]

GOD IS GOOD AND HOLY AND I AM GAY AND MERT IS WONDERFUL

[@cresoma]

AMEN

[@MertKayKay]

HELL YEAH KARISSA

[@MBM1117727]

The unreliable narrator is also in System Shock 2 from 1999, which Bioshock is a spiritual successor to

[@MertKayKay]

I never played that one but I heard it's fantastic!

[@EannieMay]

I like the fact that you started showing your face in videos - I feel like it keeps me more engaged than when I'm just looking at gameplay footage and it allows more of your personality to shine through the screen :)

[@MertKayKay]

Aww Joanna thank you! I shall continue to do it, I think I like having an opportunity to just talk to the screen as well, feels more personalised. Glad you like the video!

[@ddjsoyenby]

yup it's a plus :D

[@pelicula6720]

First of all, great video! Second, I have this perception that the Finch family greatest issue is the difficult to talk about death; it lacks some emotional maturity in every generation that keeps the "curse" alive as a way to deal with the reality of death. I remember when a finished this game I was in tears (for personal connections it had with me) and also carrying this uneasy feeling that none of them, the younger Finch mainly, ever had a chance to leave a normal life because the older generation didn't break this cycle of fear. P.S: I wasn't expecting THAT soundtrack on the Barbara story, and oh god what a feeling, and I do think the Lewis story is told in a way that is so powerful

[@h3llhound209]

I’ve always called “walking simulators” “visual novels” just because i feel like their stories are less about the fact you are walking and interacting with things and more using what you are looking at to understand what’s happening in the story being told to you. I love EF it’s such a fun game and gorgeous art

[@divineeye147]

For me I would say that my favourite walking simulator is MOTHERED I love the story and slightly off atmosphere that really compelled me to go forward.

[@MertKayKay]

Oh my gosh I think I know that one! I might have seen Remothered? If they're the same series?

[@divineeye147]

The Remothered series and MOTHERED actually have nothing to do with each other despite similar names The first time I actually heard of Remothered was when I was trying to find reviews on MOTHERED😅

[@cassiuscrynight1692]

Mother 3 pls

[@MertKayKay]

@@divineeye147 LMAO that is so confusing!

[@MertKayKay]

@@cassiuscrynight1692 ;)

[@anonymouswind1]

WROEF is one of my favorite games! Even though it's a walking sim, I enjoyed exploring the house and seeing how each room perfectly personified each family member. It was the chapter with the infant that broke me though. I remember sitting there for almost 10 minutes refusing to make the water turn on, just hoping the mother would come back. It's such a beautiful game and I wish I could forget it just to experience it all again for the first time.

[@alchemistghost8329]

For me my favorite walking sim, even though it's a kind of basic choice, is Gone Home, I remember watching a ton of lets plays of it way back then and finally revsisted it and played through it about 2 weeks ago. And when it comes to walking sims as a whole I really enjoy the experience of exploring and how the game presents the story to me, playing walking simulators feel almost meditative to me

[@Turtlee.]

since you mentioned playing and enjoying many walking simulators, have you played The Beginner's Guide? it's one of my favorites, along with Edith Finch, the narrative is poignant and thoughtful and i enjoyed it a lot. i would love to hear your thoughts on it, your videos are so well-crafted and interesting

[@MertKayKay]

Thanks for the recommendation Turtle! I've actually never heard of it. It's going on the ever-growing list! :D

[@Turtlee.]

@@MertKayKay wow really! i was so close to not writing this comment cause i thought you probably would have heard of it or someone else would have recommended it already 😭, it's by the same creator that made The Stanley Parable. i don't want to spoil any plot but the story is very complex, relating to art, creation, audience, and criticism. it just resonated with me a lot :D

[@spookypaladin4667]

Aside from the absolute brilliance of WRoEF and my everlasting adoration for this game, walking simulators are some of my favorite games, even mechanically wise. I often play games where you have to keep track of a ton of things on your HUD and UI, as much as I love these games, it gets tiring, so taking a slow walk at the bottom of the ocean, a stroll through an abandoned city while interacting with people's memories, or walking around on campus, flexing your rewind powers is genuinely great. It's a breath of fresh air through all these overcomplicated gameplay filled experiences and I love it. It's a break, a place to rest after having to look at my health, mana, ap and ad, plus minion count, status effect, gold coins and item time. On that note, I've been having a tough week and your videos have kept me going through the worst of it. I'm so glad I found your channel, you're amazing. Thank you for the love and effort you put into each video, it always shows and always makes for a fantastic experience, no matter how many times I've seen it. Please, keep it up!

[@MertKayKay]

Aww Spooky your comments give me life, thank you always for checking out my videos and leaving these wonderful little nuggets of happiness in my comment section :D I know what you mean about game pacing! Sometimes you've just finished Crash 4 and maybe you'd like to just walk through the woods for a bit and listen to someone on a walkie talkie talk about trauma. Different games for different moods. I hope your week improves Spooky, have a great one :D

[@KittyScythe]

Yoko Taro was making games you couldn't trust all the way back in the Ps2 days. He was ahead of his time.

[@shama1239]

With all the secret passages throughout the house, I was actively scared any time Edith went through one, fearful she would find the decaying corpse of her brother, Milton, and the reveal he was playing back there and fell or something and nobody found him.

[@marljusweety]

I think a lot of these tropes is found in Amnesia as well. It was highly influential and set the tone for lots of games.

[@MertKayKay]

Amnesia walked so that so many games could run! :D

[@thespanishinquisition4078]

Amnesia: the Dark Descent wasn't just very influential but also just really great. Sadly it seems not even its creators have managed to reach that level since.

[@joshfennell2257]

It would be interesting to contrast replaying this game with rereading a book to gain more complete understanding of the story. It's strange to hear replaying a story-game with so many ambiguities is an exercise in "diminishing returns" when no one thinks of rewatching or rereading films or books that way. I think some folks have resentment towards other people who loved this game, which is not a flaw in the game. Also, Mert, there's no motivation for Edith Sr. to have built her home as a series of puzzle rooms, so your complaint there weren't enough puzzles is a very "gamer" complaint about a story game.

[@MertKayKay]

Josh if I can't have my g*mer needs filled then what's the point :(

[@FroggiePebbles]

This comment is made knowing that this is a commentary on the genre and not a review of the game. Even then it will focus more on my relationship with What Remains of Edith Finch. I'll admit I was half asleep listening to some portions so I may have completely missed something you may have said, but I'd like to begin this with something that I am believing you left out on purpose: Edith Finch isn't even the character we are necessarily playing as in WRoEF. We play as her son, reading her journal. Which is why Molly's death being the one we open up with is so important. You are the child of a dead woman imagining the journal of a dead ten year old after a fever dream fueled by food poisoning. As you said, the game never tries to pull one on you. It tells you from the beginning that you can't take anything at face value, and then it spits in your face and doesn't give you any more information than the bare minimum while also giving you so much more than is necessary to simply understand the tale it spins. One of the things that I have never understood is the hatred of walking simulators. A medium and genre is almost always done with the intent to enhance the story. Bioshock could never be a visual novel, Spec-Ops The Line could never be a JRPG, Everyone's Gone to the Rapture could never be a point and click because despite the fact you could always tell the same story you can't ever get the same vibes. The same care to what the game tells you that is enhanced by its chosen medium. A good walking simulator gives you something to think about that doesn't necessarily need to be solved. Everyone's Gone to the Rapture leaves the player asking about the nature of the rapture itself, recently talked about Tale of Tales' The Path leaves the player chewing on symbolism and the unique trauma of being a young woman, and WRoEF leaves the player in the wake of constant tragedy asking is it a curse, neglect or something more. WRoEF is a dear game to me. It explores a lot of things including relationships to death and processing grief. Edie refuses, idolizing the dead and never moving on, her kids can never be anything more than this curse. Dawn stands up to Edie in the end of the game 'My Children are dead because of your stories' being the only character to ever blatantly refer to the truth. They're not 'in a better place' they didn't fly, or celebrate or imagine impossible scenarios. They're dead. They died. And Dawn's children, the only one who truly could have died of Parental neglect is Milton, who we never find out the truth about. He could still live. Edith's other brother whose name I can't remember is in therapy supported by his family, loved and attended to but it's no one's fault he died. Edith herself died in childbirth, which was no one's fault. WRoEF felt like exactly what movies like Coco and Encanto would do later (I believe, I can't remember when Coco came out) healing from trauma one generation at a time. And in the end, I may not have understood what was going on, but I think I started to understand which Edith the games title was talking about.

[@arcaneengine6216]

Some people live for walking simulators. I live for KayKay's in-depth analyses if walkong simulators.

[@MertKayKay]

😭😭 what a beautiful comment to read on a Monday morning, thank you Arcane

[@evilminionnumber2]

Talking about post-modern games reminds me of Braid, and how it was so well received and discussed when it came out and now I've barely heard anything about it mentioned since.

[@PeaTearGames]

I always find it fascinating when you make videos about games I've played because I am honestly quite oblivious to a lot of these overarching themes and plot devices, so hearing your detailed breakdowns always gets me hooked! Personally I've always enjoyed Edith Finch due to the way it presents each family members specific story - playing through the comic book or making your way through the section at the cannery always stand out to me - but I can absolutely appreciate that if you've been through games of this nature before then it might not have the same impact. As you said, having that little bit of ignorance sometimes goes a long way. Awesome video as always Mert! 😁

[@Sharktankgaming]

Months later and still keenly latching onto every new video you make Mert. Love your perspective on almost all your videos 💪 as such, looking forward to the next video ☺️

[@MertKayKay]

Shark Tank you have been an ever-present source of happiness in my comment section, thank you so much for always being so supportive

[@ziggelito]

Speaking of walking sims, has anyone here played INFRA? You play as a finnish infrastructure enginner doing inspections for your company so that they can bill the city for maimtinace work/overhaul. Nice mix of puzzles and several plotlines that unfold along the way. Can reccomend

[@numptyjones3793]

Can confirm that the 5 minute reviews are worth forking out for the Patreon

[@triangulum_mori]

your brother forgot the time stamp for where to skip the groundwork lol

[@MertKayKay]

Oh shit, thanks for telling me lmao, I'll add it

[@triangulum_mori]

@@MertKayKay no problem

[@mcsmoothmilk]

Damn lmao

[@armaggedon390]

I too noticed the 'family neglect' thing immediately. Never bought the curse, but I think the game wanted that to be the case, a little too much personally. It didn't bother me, I didn't feel I had 'lost' something since it was there from the start, it didn't feel like a twist, just 'this is what the premise is'. As for walking simulators in general? I've definitely warmed up to them with time. Especially since I'm a big fan of Visual Novels, so games being 90% story isn't anything new to me. However the key thing with walking sims is exactly that, the walking. If the 'walking' part isn't fun, then it can detract from the story. A good example of this, I think, is Everybody's Gone to the Rapture, which has an interesting story but players will either hate the way its scattered around or appreciate the sense of loneliness. I personally don't think it did that good a job with the 'walking' bit. For a game I did enjoy a lot there's Oxenfree. The free dialogue system makes the game engaging even when you're 'in between pages' so to speak. And going around the island looking for secrets was fun for a good while.

[@definitelyhooman7939]

Ah, the perfect way to wind down after a long day, an in depth discussion on the effect of post modernism in video games and the cycle of parental neglect! All jokes aside, I think this was a really fascinating way to tackle What Remains of Edith Finch. Your observations around the fast tracked evolution of video game meta narratives are fascinating, and it makes me wonder what the next evolution will be. What Remains of Edith Finch sits weirdly in that unreliable narrator space for me. Going in I knew there was no curse, but still really enjoyed seeing the ways stories were fabricated and embellished - for me, the story was more of a tragic cautionary tail than an attempt to subvert your expectations. Also, in my interpretation of Edie's motivations, I think the reason she kept the curse "alive" was because she needed to. She felt such terrible guilt around Molly's death that she needed something, anything to explain it. Of course, she was fed stories of the curse by her father, so what more promting did she need? Anyway, thank you for the amazing video! I hope you have a lovely morning/day/night :)

[@MertKayKay]

Thanks as always for watching Hooman! I definitely think your interpretation flies; the game is so overt in wanting you to know that there's no curse that, like you said, it has to be an active decision on Edith's part to entertain the ideas at all Thanks for being here 🥺 ily

[@GuiltyKit]

I have to say that this has rapidly become my favorite video game analysis channel on the Internet. You've really gotten me to reconsider some games that I wrote off after playing them as not that interesting! Most specifically Soma, but every game you've talked about, I've seen in a new light afterward. I've had a lot of internal dialog thinking about them! Thanks for keeping me sane as I travel around the state doing my job!

[@MertKayKay]

Guilty it's my absolute pleasure and I'm so happy to hear it! 😍 Thank you for telling me, you've made my evening

[@JinjoJess]

First off, great video! Second, sorry for the long comment... You brought up a lot of things I wanted to respond to! I do think that when you're more media literate it can sometimes be a bit of a burden in that you don't get to have that "romanticized ignorance" period, but I guess I'm just used to it, so these days I instead get a unique experience out of it. (Also you get to draw fun parallels to other media, like how Spec Ops: The Line is a retelling of The Heart of Darkness, or how Edith Finch utilizes unreliable narration in a way similar to Rashomon/In the Grove--hence why I think there isn't any "definitive" answer as a reward for scouring the house.) When I played the game right after it was released, I too recognized immediately that this was a story about family trauma and parental neglect, and I also noticed that Edith was pregnant early on--but instead of that ruining the game, it gave the entire experience a sense of overwhelming dread and horror. I played this game like you played MADiSON: trudging through this eerie monument to terrible parenting, dreading the next horrible clue I'd unearth, soaking in the exquisitely crafted atmosphere, waiting to see if Edith would unintentionally perpetuate her generational trauma. To me it sounds like your experience was soured by hearing about other people's experiences, if that makes sense. Had you gone in blind, you might have just taken that as the intended response the game was going for, instead of expecting a huge twist you'd never see coming. I think also that perhaps the subversion at play here might be less about the game itself and more about how the house and the Finch family represent a certain demographic of U.S. families whose ancestors moved to the States from Europe and never faced or reconciled the toxic attitudes of those past generations, instead valorizing them as a point of pride. The narrative is pretty open about how the romantic but ignorant view of these events is a problem, and the point of it is to wake the player up so that they can recognize that their actions have consequences instead of believing in your own invincibility and/or fate. (Though I do agree that if you're a more media literate person, the reminders come across as very aggressive and unnecessary.) It's like that story about the military analyzing planes coming home in one of the World Wars with bullet holes and assuming that those areas needed more protection, instead of taking into account the planes that didn't come home and how they likely didn't have enough protection in different areas where it was really needed. The Finch family isn't meant to be a single family, but a stand-in for European-descended Americans who buy into survival bias as an excuse to not change their ways (hence keeping around the very things responsible for their loved ones' deaths and insisting it's actually a curse or fate or whatever--in the game they keep physical objects, but the objects represent cultural attitudes or behaviors). As for postmodernism in games and the idea of staying "fresh" or hitting that exact time right before a boom... I don't get why it gets so much attention? Like yeah, another game will be inspired by this one and do its own take on the metanarrative, perhaps for better or perhaps for worse. I guess I don't think that inspiring further art is a bad thing, or that it takes away from the original in any way. It's subjective, of course, but if you think about games the way you think about books or films, there are no new stories, only unique ways of telling them. I mentioned before that Spec Ops: The Line is heavily inspired by Heart of Darkness--does it devalue Heart of Darkness to have a more modern retelling? I don't think so, but other people might. Game narratives can always prey on the audience's expectations to disarm them, so I don't think these kinds of stories are going to go anywhere. That said, you had a great point about how different games prioritize different elements, and how depending on who you are and your experience with a game, that can affect its longevity or memorability to an individual. Anyway, awesome job on this video and I look forward to seeing more of your stuff!

[@MertKayKay]

Jess thanks so much for the comment! I think you're right; my experience was definitely affected by having my assumptions coloured by other peoples' experiences before I played it. I suppose it's unavoidable in this day and age - I had no interest in the game for a long time but it pops up everywhere and everyone was recommending it to me, so that's potentially where a lot of my personal experience came from. I absolutely love that Spec Ops is a Heart of Darkness retelling with a grimy grey FPS coat on; not only because Spec Ops was aiming itself directly at all the people who were playing grimy grey shooters, but also because HoD is such a perfect story of toxic masculinity and hierarchy and mental health and would resonate perfectly with that target audience. I love a retelling, especially when obscure!

[@LadyxSky]

Little Misfortune is another one of this style of game but it has a lot more choice and gameplay on your end. It's also in the same world as Stanly Parabola.

[@jaymer123]

It’s in the same world as Fran Bow not The Stanley Parable haha

[@AFoxInFlames]

I love your videos, they're soothing to fall asleep to and if I miss something it's nice to listen to during my morning coffee. Thanks for these videos, very appreciated :)

[@cozycramorant9017]

There was so much stuff, to be honest I can't even remember now all I wanted to comment on. When I watch video essays like these, I tend to get lost in the endless ocean of big complex questions and detailed commentary. Don't get me wrong, it's beautiful and I love it, but I'll probably have to rewatch this a couple more times to get the full effect. As always it was an amazing video and since I can't comment as much on the video as a whole, I'll see if I can answer your little questionnaire at the beginning. As for which walking simulators do it best or worst, I've never actually played one; my only experience of them is living vicariously through your videos. As for the main question of making my ideal perfect walking simulator, I think in large part they should reallly borrow common aspects of visual novels. Having the ability to look back through past dialogue is a must, in case you were distracted, the text went by too quick or you just need a refresher. Another VN aspect I think they could benefit from is a gallery; objects you've examined, letters you've read, characters or places you've seen and all that can be a great way to keep track and keep focused on what you are currently doing in the game. VN stuff aside, I think some degree of branching paths or at the very least, conditional dialogue, is a must. The ability to replay, to find things at the beginning you learned about at the end or discuss something only if triggered by a previous event or setting examination is important to me. Though maybe that's just my obsession with secrets in games. Speaking of replayability, I think having the option to sprint / run should only be available on a New Game+. Speaking as a game designer, I find for as many small details I add into projects, most players just rush past and don't appreciate the little moments. So slowing things down, making players go at your pace at the beginning and then letting them do as they please on their next try, I think is fairly reasonable. I think interacting with things also may need a bit of work. A simple "press the A button" is too boring and it would be nice to hold buttons, press different buttons, involve the analog stick or whatever else the controller is capable of. Just because it has to be simple, doesn't mean it has to be boring. What I look for in setting is much more basic; there's certain aesthetics which I like and when they are presented to me, I am less picky. For example, I love the autumn dreary days, maybe winter nights, things that glow or mundane life in a busy city. Before I forget, fully voiced is a must and as is excellent sound design- music is great and alll, but if I don't feel the experence from what I hear of SFX, music can't save it. For story, I want it to absolutely wreck me; not in gross trauma-porn or bent over crying kind of way though, but more in the quiet depressed, drowing in longing kind of way. There are a multitude of games that can make players happy, but I want intoxicating sadness that you just sink into. Everybody's Gone to the Rapture is an excellent example of this; the ups and downs of all the characters followed by their thought-provoking or tragic ends, that was beautiful to experience. Sorry for writing so much (assuming you see this), I kinda got absorbed into the moment; game creation is fun. As I save this to re-watch tomorrow, I also look forward to whatever you come up with next!

[@MertKayKay]

I really like your game designer considerations for NG+ - as a UX designer I absolutely love to hear you accommodating to returning players ;D Too many games don't consider QoL for people who a replaying an experience. Immediately springing to mind is Monster Hunter World, which doesn't allow you to skip the insanely long cutscenes on replays/later save slots! Accommodating people who are replaying is just as important (imo) as accommodating first time players. Also love your comments about conditional/branching paths. I don't think morality endings/two endings are great because they tend to split the game down the middle and water the story down, but, like you've said, conditional/branching paths offer a new realm of exploration.

[@cozycramorant9017]

@@MertKayKay QoL is one of those things to constantly improve on till you have the perfect balance. :D I think when I consider conditional branches in games, I'm less concerned with branching story paths as much as slight differences in flavor text or unimportant dialogue. Depending on the order you interact with things or maybe things you missed or even things you went out of your way to examine, little tweaks make every experience feel unique. Like lets say you enter a cellar and it's just bright enough to see. Maybe the player says something along the lines of "dark places give me the creeps". Say for example earlier in the game you come across an old dead flashlight, which then changes the text to "I really wish I had brought some batteries for that flashlight, I'd feel much safer down here". It's one of those mini attention to details I really love. But yes, I suppose more grand branching paths could offer an interesting experience.

[@garnon26]

I only watch the videos you make that interest me, so I never saw your face before. It's really nice to see a face to connect with the voice. Also don't get me wrong but you really have some beautiful eyes.

[@MertKayKay]

Your comment gave me the biggest smile, thank you so much Garnon

[@garnon26]

You're welcome. I'm happy I could make you smile. And please keep doing those Reviews / Opinion Videos. I really enjoy watching them.

[@kitkatsnicksnack1629]

Love watching your videos before work . Keep up the good work !! I’ll keep the notifications on !!

[@MertKayKay]

Aww thank you Kit Kat! :D

[@ddjsoyenby]

i never played a walking simulator, but i do enjoy these kind of "alt games" (visual novels, interactive movie games etc. etc.) so this game seems right up my alley, and great video as always

[@MertKayKay]

Aww thank you Derek! If you ever play this I really hope you enjoy it :D

[@cyanmanta]

Edith Finch hit me pretty hard, but no walking simulator affected me as deeply as The Beginner’s Guide. I actually learned things about myself and my personality by playing it. It made me realize that, despite my life experience and common sense, I still fail at times to understand that narrators are often unreliable.

[@peachiiieevee]

the earliest example of "the game is aware of you" i can think of is off, where (id say spoilers but its literally the first minute) the player is a minor character in the story. the batter and the judge are both aware of you from the start. the player also gets fairly involved story wise near the end, which is cool. and ive heard the term "walking simulator" used for yume nikki, which is one of my absolute favorite games. however, unlike all the games mentioned here, saying yume nikki has a story is a huge stretch. it's a wonderful surreal experience, i'd say the exploration is the big draw rather than the "story"

[@47beesinacrabshell55]

Loving the inclusion of the face cam! I always feel that LIS would have benefited from an emotional director or something because even though what happened to edith finch is straight forward, it still had more depth than Max in particular

[@thederrick770]

I actually put What Remains of Edith Finch in my top 10 games. I have always thought that a lack of mechanics has never been a problem in walking simulators, a lack of mechanics lets you get more immersed in the story, you have no distractions, you can simply focus on the story. This is done so well in Edith Finch due to the seemingly obsessive environmental details and the absolutely gut punching sections of Gregory and Lewis.

[@MertKayKay]

I don't think I've ever played anything so difficult to play as Gregory's scene! Absolutely awful little bit. Very effective!

[@ziodyne.]

haven't finished the video yet but i'm glad you're covering this game! it's one of those that stuck with me :] also i like the camera bits you've been including, it's nice to see the illustrous miss mertkaykay

[@MertKayKay]

Thank you so much Kii, I'm glad you like the camera bits :D

[@Realunmaker]

All of this commentary about what videogames do compared to their peers and even the games after them is a bit unfair, not to the creators, but to the players. Yes some of us have played absolutely every game mentioned in the video and have seen a lot of twists and develpments in narratives, philosophy and interaction with the player, but that is not the case for the majority of people. I still see from time to time people who have finally saved money for their first gaming PC and played Bioshock for the first time comment about it with the wonder most people talked about it back when it debuted. I encouraged an ex to play Hellblade and What Remains of Edith Finch just after she played her first game (Tomb Raider 2013) in years, actually her first game in a decade, and the conversation pieces and the twists hit hard. I know this is not a review of the game but this is something I see a lot with game reviewers and why I eventually stop watching game reviews of people who have played everything, they compare it to games they've already played and immediately start subtracting points if this or that game did this or that before, forgetting new people are being born everyday, not everyone has played 2008(?)'s The Witcher and not everyone bought Breath of the Wild despite the aggresive campaign the entire gaming community seemed to do to make it the most consumed media product of all history even trying to beat the bible or something. I'm glad I have a bit of a weak memory and everytime I start a game I selectively go in with the naivete of someone who has never played a game of that genre ever, so I can still enjoy a game like Days Gone, who does what every game has ever done since the invention of games. Mechanically that is impossible my hands move on their own and parry and reload on their own, but I try to immerse myself in each game as if it is my first. I would have abandoned the gaming hobby if I didn't.

[@llDbGll]

As the (metaphorically speaking) speed-junkie that I am, I suffer big time with walking sims (my latest addiction is Risk of Rain 2, so yeah.) The best W.S. I played and remember loving is The Witness. The atmosphere, aesthetics, puzzles, music and overall artsy vibe it has absolutely hooked me from the get go. Even though I never finished it (and never will,) waking everywhere never felt like a chore or a limitation. Because the entire map is basically filled to the brim with puzzles, gameplay twists, quirky perspective tricks and jaw-dropping visuals, it never _really_ grows stale, and the inventiveness of the puzzles is its greatest feature. Great upload, you always manage to make my day better with your videos :D

[@houyo]

Honestly, I would love a walking simulator that completely lacked a central plot and simply focused on making the walking enjoyable as you explore a very large open world. Like, you're creating a research catalogue of an small fantasy wilderness. Maybe throw in some old ruins or an abandoned town for some good old fashion anthropology. Would be awesome! Then again, I'm heavily biased as an anthropologist.

[@HappyLarry.]

Most walking simulators I've played have ended up being kinda dull in my mind, and I suppose it's because very often they misunderstand how we should be able to perceive and interact with the world they put us in. If I'm forced into a specific character, very often I feel like I might as well be watching a movie, because the game then consists of a lot of needless walking, backtracking, and interacting to keep me on the same forced path. I feel like my time is being wasted. On the other hand, if I'm simply the turtle on a cloud from Super Mario 64, silently waving the camera around and hearing other voices interact (Everybody's Gone to the Rapture), then I'm in the same situation. The best walking simulators are the ones where the creators understand the balance. Burning Daylight is a short story game where the majority of your movement is walking from left to right as this zombie-esque character. But every step contributes to moving the story along, you aren't backtracking or collecting things, you aren't being fed all these monologues or pointless conversations (in fact, it has no dialogue at all), you're left on your own to enjoy the story. On the flip side, there's games like The Stanley Parable or When the Darkness Comes, stories where you're essentially on a guided tour with your little portable player guide you rented for $15. While the narrator is giving you dialogue aplenty, it is very clear that the narrator is there *for you*. They aren't talking to 'John Hancock' or just talking for the sake of it, it's directed at the person playing. These games understand that your time is valuable, and have made a trail FOR YOU to follow. They understand how *you* should be perceived, and how the *world* should be perceived. Even for games where you're playing a game where you're a character in the story, there are games like Stories Untold, Amnesia: The Dark Descent, >Observer_, Jazzpunk, all of these games understand that a 'walking simulator' is just another word for an adventure game. They give you an adventure, an *experience*, like the video game equivalent of a haunted house or escape room, they know that what's most important is the game interacting with you and you responding, not the other way around. You're not there to pick up every scrap of paper or set off every invisible tripwire, you're there to explore, you're there for an *adventure*.