Stranger Things 4 is NOT the Redemption You Think it is

[@trinaq]

I liked that they gave Jonathan that touching moment with Will, in that he assures him that he still loves him, which made up for them barely interacting in Season 3.

[@Liluchipuchi]

I honestly really liked that moment and then I found out that they literally only wrote it in after filming the car scene where Jonathan is looking at Will through the rearview mirror and now I'm a little :/ On one hand, the moment is still lovely and I'm glad it exists, on the other... I really don't like how something I found so important was such a last-minute thought because the actors did a good performance... It really does feel like the Duffers kicked the whole Byers family to the curb

[@love-ip7sz]

I said this in another video I think, but that scene should be a guide to how to gently nudge a loved one of the closet and show them you support them. Sometimes you really need a nudge.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Yeah because they remembered Jonathan was a character for five minutes. They’ve disrespected Jonathan so many times and it’s a waste of Charlie’s talent. Remember how good he is in season 1? Because I do and I hate the fact they left out to be a glorified extra.

[@stopmotionartist4987]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 iirc, they only wrote that scene because of Heaton’s acting in another scene, so it wasn’t originally in the script lmao

[@robbiesmith8055]

@@Liluchipuchi I'm with you there in that I'm glad the scene is there, but the fact that it was literally an after thought is annoying. At least Will *sort of* had a storyline this season without it, but it shows how little they cared for Jonathan this season. Take out that scene, and his only arc is being a stoner who doesn't know how to break up with his girlfriend, and they don't even resolve that arc by the end of the season. The kitchen scene with Will is his best moment in the entire season, but they care so little for his character that they didn't even add it until Charlie reminded them that he's a good actor who should be given interesting material.

[@SabH27]

Agree with 99% of this video, the only thing I disagree with is the return of the love triangle, it felt so unnecessary as an additional conflict to characters who already have their own conflicts that the show just didn't wanna deal with this season. Nancy's is her relationship with Jonathan and the change in their dynamic which leads into Jonathan's being rooted in him being caught between his family and his girlfriend. Steve's, at least to me, has been about finding his own path because he spends most of the series just bouncing between things, whether it be work or relationships he just doesn't have any clear direction whereas Nancy and Jonathan do, they want to go to college, they want to be a journalist or photographer, they have direction. It was especially weird as even pointed out in the season 3 scene where Steve seemingly got over Nancy when falling for Robin but then when he found out she was a lesbian instantly shut down his feelings and what, just returned to loving Nancy as a backup option? It just didn't feel like it worked and the season even ends with Nancy not giving him a second glance once Jonathan returned. All they really need to do is talk through their issues which aren't even that highly complex to begin with.

[@chandrawagner4061]

Agreed. I rolled my eyes when they brought that back. Like the scene between Nancy and Steve where he tells her about the rv and the kids was cute but does that really sound like nancy? This strong willed, career minded, ambitious character that's had multiple seasons of development on her journalism ambitions is drawn to the idea of marrying steve (which would mean staying in hawkins) and having 6 kids? Not to say you can't have kids and a successful career, it just doesn't mesh for the character to me. And it's a regression for Steve's character like you mentioned. And they can have the nancy jonathan tension without having to pull steve into it. It really just seemed like it was there because they wanted it to feel like Steve could die. Everyone needs to have their emotional, foreshadowing, we'll plan a date/revealing their feelings/when we get back from all this moment so we feel like anyone could die then no one except Eddie dies haha.

[@robbiesmith8055]

@@evita.v At the very least if they're going to bring back Stancy, I wish they'd resolved it this season. I really don't vibe with them as a couple, but if this is where the Duffers want to go, I wish they'd just finished it off in S04. Their relationship takes up *so much room* this season, and the love triangle is just going to continue to do that next season. Maybe they're bringing it back so Jonathan has more to do next season, but he doesn't need Nancy to be an interesting character. His best scenes in the entire show are the ones he has with Will. He's at his best when he's looking out for his family, so if they're planning on spotlighting Will next season, here's there chance to give Jonathan a bigger role. Don't relegate him to a vanilla love interest for Nancy again; put him where he shines most.

[@darkknightshaun]

Thank you someone finally said it bro

[@TRKJSR]

I agree 100%

[@hazardsigns]

I also didn't want the love triangle, but I really appreciated the scene where Steve thanked Nancy for kick starting his self awareness and subsequent "finding" of himself (ongoing as it may be). Would've been great if that was it, without the unrequited love thing. Though I will say, I felt in season 3 Steve was forcing himself to have feeling for Robin, beyond friendship, as people kept bringing it up to him. At that point he wasn't over Nancy. He broke things off because he could tell she was into Jonathan and he wanted her to be happy. So it makes sense if he still feels that way deep down. Nancy had been feeling Jonathan pull away (hate hate hate his "I want to break up to be noble, but I just can't bring myself" thing this season. yuk). So I can also see her observe the changes in Steve and feel a pull for what could have been. The actors themselves are doing a good job with the material they have been given. I'm just a little unsatisfied the material itself feels so clichéd 🤔

[@ryan_uwu]

Mike just infuriates me. He doesn't feel like a person, and every compliment Will gives Mike feels underserved

[@beepboop756]

yeah i have no idea why they would do that to his character. Basically did nothing this season and then has Will telling him that he's the heart of the group. I honestly feel like he's the opposite now. And no real reason was shown for him being so reserved either. Seems like they lost all their Super 8 sparkle

[@misterbobby8913]

@@beepboop756 super 8? As im the 2011 film?

[@annie-pants]

calling him the heart of the group felt so forced. dustin is probably the real heart of the group at this point

[@Nightman221k]

I feel like it's laughable how little Will interacts with his other friends compared to Mike. Do any of his other friends interact with him anymore? It's kind of weird how in season 1 they all seem like each boy cares about Will then in 2 onward it's only Mike.

[@FBI049]

@@beepboop756 his character started to suck in s3 he kept on simping for that bitches el also he’s rude to will basically mc

[@ris1111]

the thing im most upset about is the lack of will byers. he has SO MUCH potential it seems obvious that he’d be an essential role within the story, so its just shocking he has hardly any screentime. he has a fuck ton of trauma, was the huge target in seasons 1 and 2, grew up with an abusive dad, was bullied horribly, is gay in the 80s, is “hopelessly” in love with his best friend, and just so much more. its insane how much pain they’ve thrown onto him, and yet they’ve shown basically nothing about how that all is affecting him? yeah, in s4 half of his screentime is filled with him crying, but there just needs to be more in my opinion. ptsd results in much more than people just being emotional, will is the perfect character to just… build off of, so why haven’t they shown him more? i guess it’s all being saved for season 5, which makes me relieved that he’s finally going to get the attention he deserves, but still doesn’t make me feel any better about the lack of focus he has now. he definitely could have had more involvement in the plot in season 4, ignoring/not expanding on him now just seems like a waste

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

He was outside of Hawkins. It wouldn’t make sense for Henry to be able to contact him. And besides, his little monologue at the end of the finale hints that he might have a much greater role.

[@YelløwKing666]

He will have a huge role in s5. Confirmed by duffer bros

[@spiderman4207]

I hope he gets less screen time. He’s annoying af

[@SaiScribbles]

I enjoyed Season 4, and feel it’s leagues better than 2 and 3, but it is a completely different show than season 1. And I still consider Season 1 a nearly perfect self contained mini series.

[@safcjoe7062]

Season 4 was my favourite season but the finale blew it for me. Everything after Murray using the flamethrower I didn't like(bar the acting/emotion of Eddie/Red deaths)

[@RedDawnReadiness]

They should have used Mike instead of Nancy as the one Vecna shows everything to and the reason he messed with him was that he trys to find his guilt somewhere of not being there for his friends because of EL and trying to turn him on her going into the next season.

[@Sm0k3turt]

Yes

[@kdizzle901]

I disagree my favorite was 4 then 1 then 3 then 2……

[@kdizzle901]

@@safcjoe7062 I was pissed they killed Eddie and not Steve or Jonathan

[@townstar.leveon569]

Season 4 was decent, but I heavily disliked how they keep butchering will and mike. I also felt like these kids were superhero’s going through the motions. They’ve gone through these crazy experiences a lot and I guess it’s okay that they fear nothing and are pretty much invincible, but I atleast wish they addressed this in the normal parts of the show like school to see how it has affected them.

[@robbiesmith8055]

It especially boggles me how little they've addressed the toll this has taken on Will. They devoted an entire series spanning arc to Max dealing with her feelings towards Billy, an awful character, but they've never given that same attention to Will, who's been through more than anyone besides El. They dip their toes in a little in the beginning of season 2 with his episodes, but they turn out not to be PTSD related anyway; he's literally back in the Upside Down. Then he gets possessed, and any attempt to examine his psyche is gone. Then in season 3 his arc is just about feeling neglected by his friends. The last time he saw him he was forced to lay a trap that killed dozens of people, including someone he had a personal relationship with, but the show never really checks in with how he feels about what happened to him. This kid has been through some *shit*, and examining how it's all affected him could make for an interesting arc. But instead they keep half-assing his storylines and completely squandering his potential (which is even weirder considering how great Noah Schnapp was in season 2, which you'd think they'd wanna capitalise on moving forward). So anyway if you couldn't tell, I'm a big fan of Will Byers.

[@youarestillatraitor2684]

​@@robbiesmith8055 literally, I agree with everything that you said except about Max. Imo she wasn't a terrible character, she was an interesting one tbh, I liked that they showed her dealing with trauma. Sady Sink was freaking phenomenal. But despite all of that, she isn't my favorite, I will always love my boy Will the most. It's a shame that the Byers family moved out of Hawkins cause if they didn't, Will would have definitely been cursed by Vecna. Because Will would go to the same school, he would most likely be in Eddie's group with the rest of the party and he would see that Mike, Dustin and Lucas would join the D&D group. Will would feel betrayed because he wanted for them to play D&D all summer and they had only made fun of him (except for Dustin). Yet they still join the D&D group in school. Will would finally snap and despite his 'friends' encouragements to join the group and their apologies for their behavior, he would detach himself from them. We could see his 'emo phase' - seeing how his trauma finally catches up with him. Max's storyline could still happen and they could bond over the trauma and become friends. He would still small talk with Dustin, maybe with Lucas too, but completely ignore Mike. Damn, this needs to be a fanfic.

[@eggstronauts69]

@@youarestillatraitor2684 i think they were saying that billy was an awful character, not max

[@kdizzle901]

Mike has always sucked nut this season as a whole was my favorite but Will better play a huge part in season 5

[@youarestillatraitor2684]

@@eggstronauts69 oh, okay, that makes sense 😅

[@drwasup]

sucks that mikes entire personality is just being El's boyfriend

[@pink_011]

right? he deserves much more in my opinion, he’s my favorite character. he was amazing and held so much potential in the first two seasons

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Like you could cut Michael out of the past two seasons and basically nothing would change.

[@ethanb4ughan]

​@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343same for will

[@Jdudec367]

No he is well....mike too.

[@Jdudec367]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 Not really, he did help with the Vecna stuff too.

[@nikisepehrinejad9080]

For me, I will always love s1-2 but s3-4 don't feel nearly as good. I think because the show shifted from focusing on familial relationships and friendships to romance. For example we never see Joyce with her kids anymore because they always have to have all her scenes be with Hopper. Also s3-4 the groups basically never interact with each other anymore until the final episode which I hate. For example in s1 Jonathan was a love interest for Nancy and was in the teenager group, but he was also Will's brother and Joyce's son so he had a storyline in all 3 of these peoples lives. But in s3 he is just Nancy's boyfriend and doesn't interact with the others barely. Same with how Nancy and Mike don't even feel like siblings anymore but in s1-2 they shared a lot of scenes

[@td811]

I agree with everything you have said and I would add before all of that the first problem I have with season 3 and 4 is that while season 1 and 2 seemed like a show straight out of the 80s. Season 3 and 4 seem like a show made in the late 2010s and set in the 80s with lots of little things to say see it’s the 80s or a bunch of member berries.

[@nikisepehrinejad9080]

@@td811 I hadn't even thought of that but it's so true now that you say it. The whole vibe of the show became very different and like less intimate

[@robbiesmith8055]

I share your frustration with the lack of focus on families lately. I adore the Byers, and they shine brightest when they have scenes together... but that never seems to happen anymore. And El's inclusion in their family was the biggest missed opportunity this season. Building up her relationships with them could have been really special (especially considering they're the characters she's interacted the least with so far). But in those few early episodes when they're together, the story is more concerned with the cartoonish school bullies than El's relationship with her surrogate family. Then Joyce buggers off to Russia and El goes to get her powers back by episode 3, and the chance to develop those bonds is gone. Her teary hug with Will and reunion with Joyce at the end just doesn't feel earned as a result; the show didn't bother to show that these people care about each other, so why should we be remotely interested that they've reunited?

[@areeba7045]

wow you put it into words !! :D this is the main source of frustration for me in the recent seasons but i couldn't describe it lol

[@anafrost7192]

THANK YOU! I’ve always thought this, which is why I get extremely frustrated when (mainly) all I see regarding the show online is about the ships or “who’s going to end up with who” dynamic. There are quite a few characters whose main arcs and purposes (imo) are overshadowed by them being paralleled to their romantic relations - this I see mostly with Nancy, who I think has grown a lot in finding her self, her voice, her struggles with loss and her ambition and goals, but bc they tie a lot of that growth into her relationships, it goes relatively unnoticed. (Which is why, imo, the love triangle itself isn’t bad - bc I think those 3 characters can and do learn a lot from each other - but bc the Duffers seem to relate every arc to romance, it’s seen as annoying or repetitive)

[@trinaq]

While I still enjoy this show, and plan to watch the final season, it's become obvious that the Duffers are reluctant to kill any major characters, so settle on the side characters who've been introduced that season, or in Benny the diner owner's case, that episode. Even when it looks like Hopper, Steve or Max will die, the tension is ultimately lost, and the stakes don't seem that high.

[@carnuatus]

It also made Robin being suddenly SO ANNOYING moot, the weird tension with Steve/nancy/Jonathan pointless and made them relegate Jonathan to loser stoner because... Why???

[@theswagman1263]

@@carnuatus because it's just fast food television

[@BallinBunBun]

Personally, constantly worrying a main character is going to die takes the enjoyment out of a show for me.

[@imitationkrabbe3268]

It's disappointing how much they telegraphed Steve's death only to chicken out/have been baiting fans the entire time. I'm also reminded of the way they killed off Joyce's lovely boyfriend in season 2 to facilitate her relationship with Hopper down the line. Makes me think I need to worry for Jonathan because they seem to to kill people off as a way to avoid dealing with complicated conflict.

[@carnuatus]

@@BallinBunBun that's the thing, though. We got all the worry with none of the payoff.

[@pinkpink-kb6dl]

I'm still grieving over what I saw as the lost golden scene in this season, that I thought I saw coming from the graveyard scene. Max's whole arc is about finding strength in the ones she loves. so when her music is broken and she's facing certain death, I was expecting Lucas to start singing her song to her. it seemed like an obvious solution and a touching manifestation of the idea of loved ones reaching out to save you. even the lyrics of the song really only work as one person singing to another. the specific song doesn't add anything narratively, but it would in this scenario. because Lucas would want to make a deal with God to switch their places, and I can just see him holding her and singing "it's you and me" over and over. I think that would be so emotional. maybe this sort of scene is planned for season 5 since I assume max is trapped in a vecna mind prison. but I was just totally shocked that something I thought was an obvious progression that would be so cool never ended up happening.

[@madisonestes9381]

Yeah that would have been really good. Shame they didn't do that!

[@Aster_Risk]

Man, I would have loved that. Max and Lucas were the thing keeping me invested in this season.

[@garfieldfan77]

That would have been a great addition- it would be so emotional too, I'm almost tearing up imagining it 😭 love Lucas and Max, both as individual characters and their relationship. I hope they get justice in the next season aghhh

[@majpeaches]

Yeah, but they instead did that to Eleven with Mike(about the I loce you stuff) because Eleven is more important, unfortunately

[@biancapineros4287]

especially cause he “started to become a kate bush” fan because of the graveyard scene

[@krati.]

I am so salty about Eddie's death. He legit died for no reason whatsoever. They killed him off in the most stupidest way ever. The most frustrating part of it all is that duffer brothers killed him just because they didn't know how to resolve his conflict of him being the serial killer and instead of creating an arc space for resolution in next season they decided...eh let's just kill him. And as if it wasn't enough, NO ONE except Dustin mourned him. Like, I bet if Dustin wasn't there, they wouldn't have even noticed he was gone. Such a disservice to such a great characters. So many OG characters are dead weight at this point and writers don't know what to do with them, they could have killed them off instead of killing every new character they bring every season.

[@moon4553]

Maybe if they use Victor Creel (Vecna/Henry/001's father) and he puts himself in the position of assassin, that would be an interesting ending for the character, since he would finally die and have an ending to his arc (since he only disappeared after Nancy and Robin's visit). So Eddie could be in Season 5.

[@ashpense6408]

@@moon4553 I thought Victor was none the wiser about who Vecna is though

[@enzobuso5933]

Just like they kill off a random character every fucking season. Remember that russsian? No? Yup. Remember joyces old love interest? No? Cycle repeats. In 2 months you wont remember who eddie is

[@klsit3528]

@Demon Slayer yhhh

[@klsit3528]

@@enzobuso5933 alexei was my favvv n if it weren’t for bob will would be dead, i hate how they do thy

[@escalatingbarbarism5096]

The only reason this season was split is because they wouldn't have been able to finish the digital effects on the final two episodes in time for the Emmy nomination cutoff, so they released the episodes with finished post-production to meet that deadline. That's why there's no real narrative reason for a sudden break in the season, and of course why "Part 2" of the season was only two episodes.

[@lumiscince]

OHHHH honestly that makes SO much sense. thank you!!!!!

[@kurtacus3581]

I think Arcane has the one of the better solutions to binge watching. It released three episode at a time each week. Treating each week as a different act of the story. We can binge a section of the story while still feeling narratively satisfied with where we end each week. I think its much superior to what Stranger things did which is block off the last two episode until the next month so that people kept their subscriptions longer. If netflix wanted to milk the arcane formula they could either make more episode in a season or perhaps put two weeks between acts of the story. that way enough hype and build up can happen while also keeping subscriptions for longer. And the viewer still gets a better "episode to week" ratio with 3 episode every two weeks.

[@xfreja]

nobody’s saying it was split up so that people kept their subscriptions for longer, netflix sucks anyways. it was because it was taking a long time to finish editing the last 2 episodes and they felt that people had already waited long enough for the 4th season so they just released the first 7 earlier.

[@uajrh1]

It wasn’t for the subs. It was because they weren’t finished with the last two.

[@tatehildyard5332]

Twin Peaks season 3 actually did a similar release model on Showtime back in 2017. Sometimes they’d release 2 episodes a week, sometimes just 1. It gives that gratification of the binge model but still leaves enough to sustain the anticipation of week to week. It also let the parts that played better alongside another have that opportunity and the ones that work better on their own have that as well. They even did this cheeky thing where they played parts 1 and 2 on tv but also put 3 and 4 on Showtime streaming without publicizing it so if you wanted to dive in and watch all 4 hours, you could, but it meant you had to wait even longer for newer Twin Peaks because 3 and 4 had to play on tv.

[@opheliebell22]

@@xfreja Still Netflix have the greatest show on his catalogue so..

[@crunchgirl6787]

“The ‘Running Up That Hill’ thing is a new idea not a repurpose” Well not exactly. Remember back in seasons 1 and 2 with Will they had to play ‘Should I stay or should I go’ in order to communicate with him. But still, that doesn’t reduce the quality of the scenes at all.

[@iovemerls]

i think it’s even better this similarity between these two seasons because then we can -vaguely- connect vecna and this music thing with season 1 which helps give a sense of solidity to the show !

[@spookyho5994]

@@iovemerls thiss!

[@suto5704]

I think the whole max arc works even if you don't care about Billy. I wasn't sad about his death since I think the writers wasted his potential but I totally bought into the complexities of max hating him while also wanting a normal sibling relationship on top of everything else in Max's arc.

[@carolinefeagin6273]

i hope that they develop the relationship between will and el more in s5, i just think it’s really interesting that the two most supernaturally connected and the two who really made the show being siblings is so cool to me. i’d love to see them work together more

[@DLxxx]

The irony is that after season 3, literally EVERYONE was saying how excited they were for Will and El to finally get a meaningful relationship in the show (since they had this unique dynamic in the first two seasons where one only appeared when the other was absent, in a kind of yin and yang effect), only for season 4 to come around and do absolutely nothing with it. And because I know people are gonna bring it up: NO, Will hugging Eleven and calling himself her family at one point doesn't show us anything about their actual relationship. We're just _told_ that they're close now, even though they barely even have much screentime interacting with eachother.

[@misterbobby8913]

Which is a complete waste seeing how Noah Schnapp and Millie bobby brown have such great chemistry off screen. If I was the show's developers, I would have made some possible love triangle with Will, Eleven and Mike rather than make will gay. But that's just my opinion.

[@misterbobby8913]

@@LukeFiore *I COMPLETELY Agree* so much I am so Glad somebody else felt the same exact way. Such a shame and missed opportunity indeed. Especially seeing as how Noah and Millie already have such great real life chemistry. Duffer brothers are newbies and messed up and sold out big time smh.

[@ketokeko]

​@@misterbobby8913 I mean, the chemistry irl you're talking about is just friends chemistry, because Will's actor is also gay, and it would just feel wrong considering Will and El have a sibling relationship, it's as icky as Dan and Serena from gossip girl dating

[@Stellamarie_7]

@@misterbobby8913but they are siblings. I’d rather Mike and El together because Mike will treat her better than him. It could just be a crush and he could move on from it it could symbolize him finally growing up and letting go of his childhood crush. Whether they end up giving him a partner or not it will show his growth and make it so Mike and will can still have a friendship. Kids have crushes on each other all the time but eventually move on

[@BradsPitts.]

Regarding Will, I think it’s clear that he’s going to be the key character next season, and I’m majorly looking forward to that

[@robbiesmith8055]

Same, I love Will and have been frustrated by his treatment for the last two seasons. I also just hope they use the opportunity to give some love to neglected characters - namely Jonathan and Mike. They're his closest relationships in the show (besides Joyce), and this is their chance to fix them; use Mike's proximity to Will and El, the two main players of next season, so show why he deserves to be called the heart of the group. As for Jonathan, for the love of god don't let his storyline just be about Nancy again. All his best scenes in the show are the ones he's had with his family, so if Will's going to be a major player, give their relationship the attention it deserves.

[@Jackson-jd1um]

People have been saying that before every season post 1 and here we are

[@robbiesmith8055]

@@Jackson-jd1um The Duffers have said that he will be a major player next season though, so we might actually be right for once.

[@cynicalperson161]

I've seen a lot of people wanting Will to have a villain arc and I wholeheartedly agree. He basically deserves it.

[@xfreja]

well we already know that though 💀 the duffer brothers confirmed it already

[@solracfrrod126]

Something that I really disliked this season is how they handled Robin's character. She was reduced to just the "best gay friend" role which I feel it's really weird... her character totally changed to support this role: outside of the first episode, that one scene with Vecna's father and the last minutes of the last episode, her only purpose was to talk Steve and Nancy into being in a relationship... She had so much potential but I guess she's just your average lesbian bestie with no other thoughts than boobs and wanting her friend to fuck

[@jennydunn340]

i wish she had more of a backstory - she has potential to be an interesting character

[@soap4451]

@@jennydunn340 she does have a backstory in the companion novel "rebel robin"! she was best friends with barb before nancy interesting enough,, sadly they never acknowledge or even reference it or any of her backstory AT ALL. it could be such a good bonding moment between her and nancy and allow nancy to deal with her grief over barb more. robin has so much potential with how smart she is and her personality in comparison to the rest of the group, since she's kind of the "straight man" ironically. her and steve's relationship too,, i wish they showed more than just them bonding over wanting to fuck women and wanting each other to fuck women. huge missed opportunities on all fronts with robin.

[@ashpense6408]

She also names autistic traits about herself through out her life from the current DSM-5 itself and I think that was on purpose. She feels autistic in the 80's, so that was nice imo. I felt connected to her because of it.

[@soap4451]

@@ashpense6408 i know,, i really wish they handled her character so much better . the shift in her personality from 3 to 4 was really jarring to me and i feel it would have been really interesting to see the writers put any effort or heart into depicting her autistic traits instead of her just being the clumsy best friend ,, it’s such a sad thing to see them waste such a great character in terms of both representation and overall potential

[@mr.perezident9381]

I didn’t see her as a “gay best friend” trope at all, and honestly that’s kinda unfair cause the straight comedic relief side characters wouldn’t be reduced to just a sidekick in that way. She always was very straightforward, smart, and goofy, and I think they used that well this season by having her bounce off Nancy’s more serious and polite demeanor. I think if it comes across that they reduced her character, it’s I guess cause she’s less mean, and has less screen time due to the show having an already bloated cast and now not being at the center of a possible major love pairing (steve x robin)

[@raeannetan3203]

The writers completely forgot about jonathan and will. Basically the whole california team. I mean in season 1, jonathan was a pretty important character, he was part of joyce, will and nancy's story. He was a good brother and very protective of his family. But now he is just reduced to being nancy's love interest, and their also bringing back steve and nancy, which doesnt make sense, since in s3 steve said he didnt love her anymore. And for mike, he used to be a leader, and had great ideas etc, but hes also now kind of just elevn's boyfriend. Since the duffer brothers say they want to bring back the teams from season 1 and that will will play a more important role, i hope to see will, mike and jonathan having more screentime and having scenes that are more important, like in season 1, where i would say they were main characters. Also i hope they have main character deaths, and maybe explore more about the trauma of jonathan since i think thats often overlooked.

[@niblofilm132]

I totally agree with you and I'm sure they puts them in the background this season because they will be important in the final season.

[@ethanb4ughan]

Every single character in the california team were shite so they can stay out of the way 😂

[@anjalik1136]

I fast forwarded a lot of the California team’s scene. I just couldn’t bring myself to care about them

[@prestoopnik]

I agree with everything you said, and I think that the Duffers kind of botched Eddie's arc, like his whole character and life being parsed down to "running away" and "not running away" was incredibly lazy, and the Duffer's habit of introducing new characters who are written to be lovable just to kill them off so they can avoid losing a main character while still reaping the emotional response from the audience seems lazy to me. He was really the only reason I started watching again because the previous seasons were boring and formulaic, and I was hoping they would use him effectively, but I don't think they did. So I'm probably done with Stranger Things for now haha.

[@lilac.mascara]

I mean yea, but like there is no way eddie would be sticking around tbh, he either had to be killed off, go to jail or leave hawkings and go on the run.

[@Jorlaxe]

Pretty sure everyone is done for now. Til 5 comes out.

[@koboldmaki6014]

Yeah, I do agree. I really thought Eddie was one of the best things of season 4 and yet you still knew while watching he would not make it. I think it would have been a cool twist to make him survive and become an actual part of the group and instead letting one of the core team go. It would have raised the stakes and still give the audience hope and engage with the story more.

[@Jorlaxe]

Well kinda put him in an impossible win situation. The town thinks he’s a murderer.

[@koboldmaki6014]

@@Jorlaxe Yeah, that’s true. But even if there will be a reconning with that (which I doubt), it won‘t have any real implications. Just waisted potential 🤷‍♀️

[@Saturn_Rising]

I hate Eddie's writing so much. His dialogue felt so formulaic and they kept forcing the "I'm no hero" thing down our throats. It felt so robotic.

[@anono1432]

Thank you! Lol he felt like he was written by a computer to be meet every stereotypical “bad boy with a heart of gold” criteria. Also he looked 29 and we’re supposed to believe his ass is in high school? Lmao

[@Saturn_Rising]

@@anono1432 The actor said that Eddie is 20. I think he's just failed a bunch? lol

[@thirdhandlv4231]

Nah he is great.

[@samlosco8441]

@@Saturn_Rising Yeah it's mentioned in the cafeteria that he failed senior year twice, so he would be 20

[@samlosco8441]

"We are NOT heroes" felt formulaic, but aside from that I liked Eddie. I know it's a bandwagon right now, but I did think he was one of the best parts of the season when he appeared. Sadly we didn't get to see much of him before Chrissy died

[@eabha6121]

robin’s appalling one-liners really took me out of it. “we’ve got company”/“uh… guys you might wanna see this 🤪” vibes. just so cringe.

[@anono1432]

I’m gonna get attacked by his crazy fans but Eddie made me want to die with cringy and obviously made to be liked by certain group of tumblr fan girls he is. At least Robin is genuinely charming.

[@davemac9563]

@@anono1432 It’s the exact opposite for me. Eddie was at least funny and had more charisma, and is a better actor. Robin is just a bumbling idiot

[@honeybabes2017]

@@anono1432 i mean that’s your opinion and you are entitled to it, people have to learn to be understanding of differing opinions

[@robbiesmith8055]

I didn't hate her this season like some people, but she officially delivered my least favourite line in any show ever this season: 'Dustin, your compass has officially gone from wonky to wonky with a capital aaaah'. Rip to Maya for having to try an deliver that line with any dignity.

[@shrisiva4016]

@@anono1432 Wow I have the complete opposite opinion, I loved Eddie, and I think Robin was incredibly cringy

[@PatirroHenry]

I gotta admit, Argyle's "this risotto is smacking, dude" line is gold

[@renee989]

They did explain why the runnin up that hill song protected them from vecna. Because his power lies in getting into peoples minds and terrorizing them, the victim has to figure out a way to escape the dark images / memories vecna makes them experience. Their whole argument is that music helps them escape vecna because music is a mentally / emotionally healing thing. They’re able to control their own minds better and keep vecna out when they are listening to music.

[@JasonToddsThighs]

Whoever thinks this is stupid seems to just have completely glossed over that scene with Robin and Nancy, where they deliberately go out of their way to say, and I quote: "Music can reach parts of the brain that words can't."

[@violetlavi2207]

@@JasonToddsThighs also must've watched the Max scene with their eyes closed...they literally SHOW the song unlocking Max's good memories and showing her the path out of Vecna's lair and giving her the strength and will to run

[@anthonybernardi4929]

This must be a consequence of binging. I rewatched S4 spaced out, and for me, the plot flowed pretty coherently. Music accessing parts of the brain was one of Nancy & Robin's major discoveries at Notre Dame, along with the Creel family information we got. Dustin knows this once he calls Nancy/Robin, and Max has had her Walkman with her literally the entire season.

[@iusedtowrite6667]

While i do enjoyed the season a lot, I understand why some might not. The growing roster of characters and them not actually killing any of the mains just feels boring at this point. Like you know your favs would live and the new ones will be the only ones killed. It just kills the tension tbh. And the whole arc of Will, Jonathan and all making a trip back was the worse aspect of the season Their scenes literally would bring the story to a halt. They could have just been written out this season. And have the main focus on vecna arc and eleven's arc

[@ellanaa9464]

My main issues with it were the drawn out plots and at times unorganic set ups to get the plot moving. I'm also in the camp that they shouldn't be scared to kill off important characters. They brought back Hopper and didn't quite kill Max, just so they can kill a beloved side character almost every season. First Bob, then Alexei and now Eddie. It has gotten repetitive quickly. It honestly wouldn't be as jarring if ST felt like Umbrella Academy, because UA doesn't take itself that seriously. But ST tries to achieve high stakes, yet refuses to follow those through.

[@robbiesmith8055]

Hopper should have stayed dead. It would have made the stakes feel more genuine (which is desperately needed at this point), and it would have freed up a lot of screen time the California cast desperately needed to actually have a meaningful contribution this season.

[@anafrost7192]

Thank you for that last paragraph. I’m always in the boat of: “don’t be afraid to kill of your main characters” - granted, I might be pulling from the GoT effect of high stakes. But some people do get defensive and say a show doesn’t need to kill it’s characters to have stakes, and u put it perfectly in that, if they didn’t try to advertise and always strive to achieve high stakes without actually showing it, it would be better ❤️‍🩹

[@Carl-ld5jy]

There was almost tension when Max was bout to "die," but they decided to pull some 'the power of friendship' bullshit. Eddie's death was just retarded.

[@GabesEdtiz]

I’m sure some characters will die next season. After all it is the final chapter, so they can basically kill whoever the hell they want. And if you ask me, Umbrella Academy this season just felt bland compared to the previous 2 seasons.

[@vilivette]

I will never not be mad about the way they handled Alexei

[@anono1432]

It’s so weird, I really enjoy the later seasons (mainly 2 & 4) and this season felt so much more enjoyable but I still can see clearly how season 1 is in its own league. One thing that keeps bothering me is how unwilling they are to kill off characters. Instead going for the cheap introducing red shirts every season story. (Spoilers ahead) I mean I naturally adore both hopper and max, but bringing them felt so unbelievably cheap that I don’t know why they even “killed” them off in the first place. Cmon duffer brothers, be brave or don’t cheat your audience at all. I can’t help but feel like seasons 2-4 feels like fan fiction.

[@chandrawagner4061]

I think with max they want to tie it into how they're going to defeat vecna. Like have her be an integral role, at least that's what they've hinted at. For hopper, ya, I got nothing there. Especially since the Russia storyline really had no impact.

[@Benn847]

@@chandrawagner4061 building off that killing max would have greatly degraded episode 4 and how she no longer wants to kill herself. There is so many reasons why the coma was the better option for max. Hopper….yeah could of died

[@xfreja]

exactly, i’d much rather they kill them off. unlike the creator of attack on titan, they’re too scared to kill of characters which just makes the show less enjoyable

[@uajrh1]

Personally season 4 was my favorite season

[@soulsurfer7702]

will would probably the one they will kill of next season cause the writers don’t know what to do with him. They even had to announce that he is gay and in love with Mike on twitter cause they didn’t know how to incorporate it into the story so it was a cheap tactic.

[@goodtaste2185]

The writers forgot about Will Byers.

[@MrBrezelwurst]

They forgot about him so much they couldnt even remember his birthday... the only character who had a canon date of birth, if Im not mistaken...

[@misterbobby8913]

And they just added on the lgbt stamp on him, rather than focus on his Ptsd and I wish they would have made him go on an angry route after the fight with mike in season 3 when will tore up his castle byers fort

[@happyhour5392]

it's so upsetting !! especially bc he's my fav character.

[@amiera1233]

Yeah, when I kept hearing people say this is the best season yet I was like… what? Ironically I wish that they had gone harder into the satanic panic theme like they did with the mall thing in 3, but my main thing was everything was way too convenient, and I feel like having the whole hive mind of the Hawkins group is one of the manifestations of that. I don’t mind Jason being pure evil because I don’t believe that every character needs to be redeemed. I think knowing that he’s out of the loop is already enough insight into why he’s doing all that. My biggest unpopular opinion is that finding out that everything that has happened has been controlled by a MAN is so… boring. A man could probably be defeated. There’s a clear source. This entity with several separate parts though? That’s different and a little more mysterious. At the same time, I wish it was as character driven as previous seasons

[@madisonestes9381]

Yeah I hope we find out that Vecna is actually being manipulated by the mind flayer or that he is defeated but they still have to deal with the mind flayer after Vecna is defeated because the idea of a semi sentient monster you have to destroy is so much cooler than a person. I think they created Vecna because they wanted to do a Nightmare on Elm Street movie and this was their chance to use those ideas. It was kind of cool at first but it was definitely less scary than s1 and 2 when you had this mysterious unknown world with unthinking monsters.

[@madisonestes9381]

I also wish they'd focused on satanic panic storyline more or at least gave the storyline a good wrap up. They could have had Eddie save Jason and made Jason realize he was wrong and clear Eddie's name with or without killing Eddie as well. Would have made Jason feel like a real person too instead of an unthinking puppet just there to increase the stakes. I was never more let down on this show than when they killed Jason without him realizing he was wrong or when they killed Eddie so senselessly. Or killing him at all when he had so much chemistry with the cast and they killed a new character yet again instead of killing one of the mains.

[@FifoTheItalian]

agreed, the upside down works better as its own entity instead of it being controlled by vecna

[@sahasraveda4505]

dont forget, the mild flayer's still there

[@GabesEdtiz]

Vecna isn’t controlling the Upside Down. The Upside Down clearly can work just fine without Vecna, as it spread across Hawkins after Vecna was presumably killed. And I’m 95% sure Vecna has already been working to transcend himself into a form stronger than his original body. It’s why characters like Will can feel he’s still alive by the end of the season. And if you ask me it’s kind of scary to think one of the biggest threats of this alternate dark dimension was once a human.

[@octangula7914]

the writers forgot about will so much they forgot his birthday lol

[@byler_endgayme]

there is a theory that they 'forgot' his birthday on purpose, that the characters forgot will's birthday and later vecna will taunt him about it

[@steviesteviticusstevert]

nah, eddie was great in regards to what quinn did with him, but the constant dialogue of "I am no hero" and "I just run away" is like... it's not even foreshadowing at that point it's just bashing me over the head it. "guess the character that's going to not run away anymore and die because he doesn't have the plot armour the rest of the hawkins crew has. can you guess? I bet you can't guess who it is." the duffers need to stop assuming the audience that over-analyzes every single frame of their show won't get it the first time. they refuse to kill the main cast, so they just throw in side characters every season. after season one, they lost the art of showing, not telling, hence vecna telling the entire damn plot to Nancy for no reason other than to write up a monologue. vecna could have killed her and gotten his fourth gate, but released her for... the drama? the logistics of the gates connecting the way they did just doesn't make sense tbqf

[@Nightman221k]

Vecna could have gotten ANYONE to open the gates, making it a character connected with the central cast was delaying it needlessly. He didn't even have to choose high school students we see him searching and he sees old people and adults. I feel like if an upstart writer wrote that people would hate on it as a plot hole but people ignore it in ST.

[@sidhe830]

not killing Nancy is legitimately my biggest pet peeve with the entire season. Like bro, you know what ELSE would be dramatic? murdering someone 'close' to her and opening a fucking hellgate and putting all her friends in danger where she's too far away to do anything about it I say 'close' because I'm not sure if Nancy and El have actually had any scenes together or even interacted, so even the dramatics and taunts or whatever the fuck he was going for with that scene is tenuous at best

[@anjalik1136]

Yes the telling whole plot to Nancy was just…..weird? Also the way Eddie dies it felt like he just died for nothing

[@walternelson9950]

It’s really crazy thinking about the way I felt watching Season 1 versus now. Season 1 had me going crazy waiting to see what happened and now I’m just watching it to see what happens. The suspension of disbelief just went off the charts in addition to just knowing too much about what’s going on the story has lost much of its mystery.

[@erauprcwa]

This is the problem with continued stories. You already know the main plot, so it's no longer new. That's the reality of storytelling. It's still an original story, but because you know about the world, it's not gonna be as exciting or mysterious as volume 1.

[@unknownateentity]

exactly! the show worked well when the 'scary evil bad thing' was this eldritch abomination that was toying with them all. there was no singular bad guy to hate and defeat. there was no big backstory and explanation.

[@reigen8320]

S1 always has me on the edge of my seat, even when i KNOW what happens. On a rewatch I'm always 100% alert and I usually watch it in one go because it's that good. S3 and S4 I was shifting around my couch so much, distracted and bored because the story was just so repetitive and scenes were too long and i didn't really care about the monsters

[@LnRit02]

to offer some context on your idea that the distance between the california and hawkins plot lines was referential to covid: a big part of the reason that those groups remained seperate for basically the whole season came down to covid related filming constraints. according to the creators that wasn’t how they originally had planned to write things. so i don’t think it was meant to be an intentional commentary, so much as an unintended byproduct they had to work around.

[@lambadie2696]

That would be so interesting and funny to notice if you for some reason watched it again

[@whatisupbruh2738]

I think another thing is that the characters look less like kids and more like adults, which I can’t blame them because well they are. It’s why the Mike being obtuse about Will and Els feelings thing is more frustrating bc I can believe a 12 year old wouldn’t see that but they all look too old to make the naivety believable at this point

[@robbiesmith8055]

It's also bonkers that Mike is so obtuse all of a sudden, because he was so emotionally intelligent early on. He had his blunders for sure, like his fight with Lucas in season 1. But the way he looked after El when she had absolutely no one to turn to was really moving. And he was always the one who noticed when something was wrong with Will, and even helped him find a positive spin for his possession when Will was clearly freaking out ('this could actually be a good thing, now you can be an awesome super spy'). So not only is it odd for a young adult to be this stupid, but it's out of character for Mike.

[@queenwednesdayart]

@@robbiesmith8055 Yeah it really annoys me that he never noticed Will's obvious and cliché declarations of love. It's very clear to me that they just wanted to queerbait the audience with that one.

[@robbiesmith8055]

@@queenwednesdayart I don't consider it queerbait to introduce Will's sexuality this season, but not be done wrapping up that story yet. It makes total sense for Will not to be ready yet, but that he's going to get there next season, so I think it's unfair to judge his arc so harshly when it's not finished yet. I'll eat my words if they never mention it again, but I don't think they'd do that. So while I'm pissed that the main use of his arc this season was to prop up a straight relationship, I think it's important to remember there's one season left before declaring this queerbait. They're obviously not afraid to commit to queer characters (hello Robin), so I think they're taking their time on purpose because it makes the most sense for Will.

[@godnotavailable2094]

I noticed this too. The characters' maturity levels haven't caught up with the actors' real ages.

[@xfreja]

aren’t they 15 in season 4 💀

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

When Robin, Steve and Nancy were being strangled: Well they cut away so I’m sure they’re fine. They’re then fine: See? Told you. And that in itself is the problem. I feel absolutely no sense of danger for anyone in the main cast in the slightest. Max gets physically slaughtered by Vecna? No problem. El is now Rey from Rise of Skywalker. Hopper almost gets vaporized? No problem. He’ll just run down the stairs that weren’t mentioned before as a solution to avoid dying. Robin, Nancy, and Steve get strangled for several minutes by a demon? Nah. They’ll be fine. Joyce and Murray almost get killed by Russians and demogorgons? No. They’re too smart and they’ll get out of it. It’s the same problem as always. The cast is too crowded and all the characters are never in danger. Even though I was sad to see Hopper go, his death was impactful…until they decided to retcon it. Max’s death was sad but of course they couldn’t let her go and made a cop out. They’re all fine in the face of danger and it’s so frustrating because I honestly struggle to care about any of them when the Duffers have made it clear through the writing that they’re always going to be fine. They will stubbornly hold onto characters no matter what. And yes they do kill people in the show but it’s not the people who we know the longest. Yes Eddie’s death is sad but it’s not as sad when you remember they’ve done this before with characters like Barb, Bob, and Alexei. It’s the same thing. I called that in volume 2 we’d lose no one except Eddie and the basketball kid whose name I don’t remember and honestly never cared enough to remember because of how really not interesting he sadly is. And guess what? They went and did it again. This season is buried under old problems as well as recycled stuff like bringing back the love triangle for God knows what reason. Even though Steve projecting his feelings and dreams onto someone in a relationship goes against everything he has learned up to this point. It’s selfish. Steve is not selfish anymore. Even if they break up Nancy and Jonathan which I would be fine with, they should not put her back with a guy who wants her to have six kids with him, and not even considering what she wants. And after them not speaking for an entire season, them being together with “sexual tension” makes no sense. I’m sorry. I’m just not as happy with this season as everyone else. It does a lot of things correctly like Vecna, Eddie, fixing Max, returning to dark tones and horror and turning up the stakes within those things… But otherwise? I don’t see why everyone is so excited. It was okay at best, frustrating at worst.

[@di9749]

Completely agree, i am not worrying abt anyone in s5, due to how scared the duffers are to kill anyone off

[@johnthomas5314]

GOT killed off main characters all the time, and ended in a jumbled, rushed, shittily written mess. Maybe Stranger Things is the opposite...

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

Not in the beginning. Death actually served a purpose then on that show. And at least Game Of Thrones actually had stakes and conscequences for its characters before they ran out of books. Stranger Things however does not and as a result, we have too many characters and no story for most of them like Jonathan, Will and Mike. What stakes exist for our characters against horrific and violent monsters? None apparently. So therefore there is no tension for them.

[@colinlynch7749]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 Its strange to think that killing off Jonathan, Mike, and Will within the the last 2 seasons would have helped fix the lack of tension in this one. It would have also allowed these characters the luxury of dying while they were still impactful to the story instead of lurking around in the background. It would also impact the more relevant characters like El and Nancy in more interesting ways, making the Steve/Nancy rekindling make more sense as the characters would be trying to deal with the emotional trauma of loss (like Max in this season).

[@matthewsimonds3346]

@@di9749 they could have easily saved max but why didn’t they? They WANTED her to be blind and paralyzed. El could have saved her at the last minute but they chose to do it differently.

[@ayubnor0]

Stranger Things is just a victim of its own success.

[@stephaniewilliams6756]

It's own bad writing

[@tamaritiel9909]

I have many many questions and this feels like the appropriate place to vent. Why did El need the whole salt water mess in order to reach the Hawkins team? She used to be able to do it with just a blindfold and some white noise. After being introduced to all the other numbered kids, how come Eight is the only one who has a different skill? What the FUCK is this pixie dust that you can use to WRITE in the Upside Down? No way this pure looking thing can exist in the Upside Down, Just doesn't fit the whole cursed dimension vibe at all. Is this how Will did it? no way. I still don't get why Vecna chose to show Nancy his entire backstory.. I really hate the trope of the villain getting chatty with his victims just so he can conveniently reveal his whole plan. I also really hate that all El needed to hear is Mike saying 'I love you' to remember "oh yeah- I have super powers" and then kick Vecna's ass. That's DUMB. And also it was the only purpose Mike served this season... but that is just an opinion. Also how did the know Suzy's address? The whole Steve and Nancy restarting the love triangle felt kinda forced and like.. calculated. They have the other characters all of a sudden supporting it and pushing them together just as Nancy and Jonathan conveniently start pulling away from each other. Considering the fact they didn't interact once during last season, it doesn't feel natural. With that said, I'm rooting for them like a basic bitch. Another question, they are never clear on how exactly does one kill a Demogorgon. I mean this season they had an entire firing squad in front of one and it didn't even flinch. And then a scene and a half later, when they enter this creepy Soviet lab, one bullet from Hopper killed it instantly.

[@amiera1233]

I think it died so easily because Eleven defeated Vecna

[@xx_3m0j1n_xx]

i think the pixie dust stuff is something you have to suspend your disbelief about. i'd also love an explanation but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ really just something you've gotta accept. and with the whole mike's love confession thing, i don't think him saying "i love you" is what saved el. during mike's monologue you can see the vines continue to tighten around her neck, showing that mike's monologue is insincere and just him saying what he thinks el wants to hear. i think what saved el is seeing max get hurt, because of how much el cares for max. also also, both methods work for el's sensory deprivation. they may not have had a radio outside of the car to create white noise, and also el floating in a tank is just kinda cool lol

[@andrews5733]

He was trying to goad eleven into coming to him thats why he chose to reveal to Nancy especially since she had the info about him and his family history already. So I interpreted the I love you scene differently than you. Vecna attempts to enter the persons mind and break their will and then consuming them. It seems like Eleven for whatever reason had her will easily broken by Vecna and it was only through the inspiration of Mike telling her he loves her that she finds the strength to break the psychological hold that Vecna had on her at that point. A song or words that provoke a strong emotional feeling seem to be the way to break Vecna's hold on them. I agree that it is cheesy but not inconsistent writing. Y'aint gonna get an argument from me on the rest of this though. Mike sucks and they did that whole storyline horribly.

[@arianagarcia732]

they need to put you on the writing staff asap and make it rocky

[@adriankatzz]

Bc eight is black😵‍💫🫢

[@gor764]

Man, I felt like I was one of the only people with these same complaints. Every review and reaction online is overwhelmingly positive. I felt like the writing was bad this season. A big reason for the faults has to do with ST escaping its small town goonies mystery framing and delving into Cold War international + interdimensional conflict. ST worked best when things were kept small, when we were given at most a couple of storylines to follow all in one location. Not sure why it's turned into an international scavenger hunt.

[@acciomegapint2373]

the "friends don't lie" is just annoying at this point. and quite cringey.

[@angla3383]

Yeah it’s corny as hell like y’all are 15 u need to drop it. 😭

[@TheVagabond627]

Especially when Eleven blatantly lies to Mike about her experience in Lenora

[@casper3105]

hoppers rescue plot was downright atrocious , i dreaded it everytime it cut back to it you can remove this entire plotline and nothing would change its so pointless and feels like a completely different series, actually it literally felt like a fanfiction written by a jopper shipper who wanted to write a dramatic plot where joyce and hopper reunite and kiss. i literally cannot describe how much i despise this cartoonish sub plot and how much space and time it wasted Also i am very tired how Els traumas are so ignored, and how flat of a character she is even though we are already 4th season in. she was dehumanized and trained as a weapon since she was a baby, and the show glamorizes her powers so much that they keep ignoring how it would damage her psychologically and when the show tries to address it they either do it in very cartoonish way or handwave it because they are too scared that the audience wont be interested unless El screams and bleeds from her nose. In this season, after loosing her powers and feeling worthless she is forced to relive her old Memories, that were so traumatic that her brain blocked it out entirely, because its the 'only' way she can get her powers back which i personally think is not only distasteful concept in general but also its very disrespectful to El as a character, but again it doesn't matter because she is a "superhero" again, her trauma means shit because she is nothing but a brand of the series that has to do her gimmicky shtick for every season no matter what, and thats just sad man

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

The hopper rescue plot line was necessary. A lot of people actually anticipated the fourth season only to see Hopper get rescued, and I’ll admit to being one of them. Yes, it was a little cheesy, and could have been better if they actually finished it off, but I think it was good as a side-plot. And Yuri was literally the only good comic relief in the season, Argyle and Robin were horrible compared to him in that regard. Besides, the Russian sub-plot was the only one that actually had enemies from the previous seasons. The others were focused on Vecna. It was refreshing to see the Demogorgon return in its grotesque and diabolical glory, along with its little doggy companions and its ancient overlord, the mind Flayer. You have to agree, the scene where Murray torched down the Gorgon legion was one of the most iconic scenes in the whole show. It saved the NSR trio, and saved Eddie before he got mutilated beyond recognition.

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

And Eleven didn’t lose her memories because of the “trauma.” The sheer blood-loss from Henry’s attack and the stress out on her brain during the disintegration caused her to collapse and suffer a stroke, which caused her to not only lose the memories of her fellow companions, but of her time with 008 and her mother.

[@casper3105]

@@juanjoyaborja.3054 mate, very happy for you that you loved this plot very dearly and consider it iconic but its still shit

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

@@casper3105 Look, the fact that you can't even put an apostrophe in your "it's" tells me that you can't even read properly, which is evident

[@niblofilm132]

I don't think it's bad if Eleven gets her powers' back, like she was born with them, it's a part of her and not something that the lab gave her with experiments. Turning her back on her powers would mean that she is denying herself and trying to forget her past, and I think accepting it is the best way to heal from trauma, I guess. So, Eleven gets her power back but refuses to forgive Brenner, the head of the lab that traumatised her. So I think they keep the trauma caused to her in mind. I think her whole arc is to accept herself for who she is, and that's why Mike had to do his monologue. I don't know if what I say is too far-fetched, but that's what I think the Duffers wanted to do. Also I agree for the Russian plot, just useless, I think they should have killed Hopper in season 3 because I think that Eleven has to die in the final, it would be a drawback to season 1 and it's just impossible for her to live a normal life, even if I would love that she stays alive and live a long life with Mike. For the Californian plot, it could have been good without Argyle and the need they have to dedramatize the situation every time something bad happens. Will's arc was interesting but it would have been better if Will, Mike and Jonathan did something more meaningful. The Hawkins' plot was incredible, but I just don't like Steve and Nancy going back together, they have nothing in common except for being both fucking badass. Nancy wants to be journalist and Jonathan is a photographer, and they just made him dirty because Steve is more popular, hence better for a big romance. I guess they are preparing us and correcting the flaws of the show in this season for the big finale, and I just can't wait because I'm sure it will be grandiose, or at least I hope it will be. Also they don't have so much time to write the script between each season, so I guess it explains the plot holes.

[@ianfleischer3532]

What prevented me from fully connecting with Max's grief for Billy wasn't so much her conflict, but rather that Billy's death was so over the top and dramatic (much like Season 3 as a whole) that every time she had this flashbacks I couldn't help but laugh because nothing of that original sequence was in any way quiet or subtle or left anything to the imagination

[@breezus3928]

Honestly, they should have kept the anthology idea and had each season revolve around different kids in Hawkins dealing with the Upside-Down. Then "main characters" could die and stay dead, and everyone left at the end of each season could came back in a finale season set at the end of the 80s, a big blow out with the Upside Down that brings together everything the different casts have learned to fight back. *sigh*

[@sahasraveda4505]

thats.. eh too much everyones gonna be like "i love these people but i miss the old characters" or sum

[@Carl-ld5jy]

They struck gold with their casting, so that would have been a huge mistake.

[@breezus3928]

@@Carl-ld5jy They struck gold with their casting of new characters every season anyway, so would it really?

[@Carl-ld5jy]

@@breezus3928 Yes, it would've killed the series quickly. The premise isn't all that interesting and the original cast and characters are the only reason people care. Plus, there would have been no room for long-term development, rendering most of the original characters pretty redundant.

[@breezus3928]

@@Carl-ld5jy No, not true when some biggest complaints of the fandom are ABOUT the main characters: that there are too many of them, that some are useless now, that others are one-trick ponies; that some should have stayed dead, and new characters should have become mains. People came and keep coming back to ST for the premise of a throwback YA 80s adventure/horror, and the dissatisfaction after each season usy centers around how the story and/or the characters are mucking the enjoyment of that premise.

[@bluehornet632]

Gonna have to hard disagree about season 3 not feeling fresh. It has a huge tonal shift with the whole "there's an entire Soviet base underneath the mall that no one knew about that has soldiers that bother dressing in Soviet attire and would need an ungodly amount of energy and time to exist" The show went from Steven King into cartoon territory.

[@jaimeerindy4573]

I agree with your takes, and S4 certainly isn't a masterpiece, but I was thankful it at least refocused the plot, which in S3 was just flying off the hinges. I mean, let's be honest, S1 isn't without its flaws so really at this point I just accept Stranger Things for what it is -- a fun, mass pop retro conglomerate to escape to sometimes.

[@anafrost7192]

@ambassador Fr, I hated the entire Russian storyline they did. I loved the scoops troop last season but hated the purpose of it. Hopper magically being alive by SOMEHOW not being disintegrated by the explosion and being held captive was probably the only thing keeping it from feeling like a half-assed “new antagonist party”

[@DBryan-vu6ec]

@@anafrost7192 tbh it’s always been about the Russians, Brenner & his team were using 11 powers to spy on the Russians, Murray in season 2 thought 11 was a Russian spy, Season 3 we got to see what the Russians were up to & why they entered Hawkins (because it was necessary to open the gates and capture the demogorgans). And we all know America & Russia we’re at it during the 80s. So it was somewhat necessary to the plot.

[@GabesEdtiz]

@@anafrost7192 Hopper was out of the blast zone when the machine exploded. The shockwave wasn’t strong enough to break the ground itself.

[@Sunday265.]

I know a lot of people love Robin and I enjoyed her in season 3 but for some reason this season she just kept annoying me. Especially the scenes where Nancy was trying to do research. I also don't get how Eddie died to some bats when Max literally had the most brutal thing happen to her that killed every other character but because of El's random powers she survives.

[@soap4451]

they made her a caricature of what she once was, imo. despite s3 sucking, she was one of the bright spots, as she had a unique personality and really helped build on steve's arc. she even had a companion novel that explained that she was best friends with barb before nancy! she had so much potential, but she ended up being forced to fit the mold of "anxious comedy relief lesbian best friend" instead of how she was in s3, where she was her own character. she never had the sort of anxious and bumbling personality she has now,,, it's so disappointing to see her reduced to just the funny girl that tries to get steve to hook up with nancy and likes some random girl in school

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

Max survived because the process was halted midway. Had Vecna finished it, Max would have had her eyes pop out, which didn’t happen. Yes, her revival was ridiculous, but you could explain it away by saying that Eleven’s electromagnetic powers induced an electromotive force inside Max’s body, which caused a current to flow through her heart, allowing it to beat again

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

@@soap4451 Tbh Yuri alone would have been enough comic relief. He was actually funny, even till the finale. Argyle and Robin just felt really forced

[@Nightman221k]

I feel like El's forcing Max to live was almost like El put Max in a state of living death since her mind is shown to be empty. Like El inadvertently ended up doing something like what Brenner did to her mother. I kind of dread what will happen to Max, you know it'd going to be incredibly dark whatever happens.

[@anjalik1136]

@@Nightman221k I hope that’s the direction they take, it sounds interesting

[@NawiTheCore]

Out of the three big plots, only ONE worked for me (everything that was going on in Hawkins). The whole Russia plot and the convoluted way in which Eleven got her powers back didn't work for me at all and felt like filler. Not to mention Mike and Will who were more useless than ever.

[@madisonestes9381]

Yeah I agree completely. I was frustrated when I realized they were going to milk the Russian storyline and we wouldn't see an El/Hopper reunion until the finale. And even that felt anticlimatic considering the long wait. I didn't like how they were all separated this season and I'm glad they will all be in Hawkins for the last season.

[@uajrh1]

Imo, the eleven plot line was the second best (after hawkins, ofc).

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

Eleven’s way of getting her powers back wasn’t convoluted at all. Brenner literally explained the whole process, you’d find it complicated if you didn’t pay attention.

[@uajrh1]

@@juanjoyaborja.3054 this

[@syra1541]

@@uajrh1 I think it was really engaging on a first watch, but kind of a drag upon rewatch ngl

[@nobodygoodfr9556]

I don’t know man, that scene where Eddie looked straight at the camera and said “it’s Chrissy time” before Chrissing all over the Upside Down was Oscar worthy.

[@syra1541]

lmfaooooooo

[@MrBrezelwurst]

I'm just pissed they killed Eddie off, and it's not just because I like the character a lot. They've been introducing and killing the new 'main' character for 3 seasons in a row now (4 if you count barb) and it's getting really stale. It's like they wanted to kill Steve but realized that half of the audience would stop watching since he and dustin have been the only characters with an actual personality for a while now, so they killed the next best thing, which was Eddie, so they can make dustin miserable without touching steve. I hate that the old cast basically has plot armor invincibility, it makes you not care about tense moments because they're just gonna survive anyway, and makes it harder to connect with the newly introduced ones cause you know they're just gonna be fodder

[@breezus3928]

At least Argyle contributed to the plot. Jonathan, Mike, and Will could have just stayed home and let Susie, Argyle, and Eleven handle it.

[@jossecoupe446]

I felt like such a goddamn outcast not really liking this season.

[@morganf1968]

Me too…

[@UriosEditz]

@ambassador no

[@UriosEditz]

@@morganf1968 me too

[@opheliebell22]

same

[@bennybop7184]

I agree with everything you said, but it didn’t ruin it for me. I just kinda noticed it and then moved on. Wish it was better but I still enjoyed what I got, cause after season 3 my expectations were so low

[@comealsolito804]

Season 4 had many flaws but it definitely revived the series. But I'm gonna be honest: the more I rewatch it, the more I think Season 1 was just something else. Season 2 was good at the time but in retrospective they could have done whatever they wanted after ST1 in terms of world building, characters development and El's backstory, all of this while keeping that mistery vibe, but the way they did it was just too average. The Mind Flayer was okay, but they could have come up with something way more cool and engaging than the Demodogs, and I'm not even commeting on El's garbage sister. I think season 2 morphed Stranger Things into something not so "stranger", and Season 3 followed that mood. ST4 definitely revived those mystery/horror vibes as it should be, but here's too many plot holes due the fact that Season 2 and 3 went straight to a completely different direction.

[@chattycatty3336]

Idk if it was mentioned, but the whole "vecna cant kill you if your listening to music" thing was actually teased in season one. The reason Will survived in the upside down is because he was singing his favorite song ( "should I stay or should i go" if i remember correctly)

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

Will sung the song to keep his sanity together. It didn’t actually have any effect on his direct survival. The reason it works against Vecna is because it brings out the good memories in a person, when Vecna would use the traumatic ones instead. But the Demogorgon is simply a mindless eating machine, and uses sound just like any other predator, to hunt. Will was taken to the Gorgon nest because the Demogorgon heard him singing, so it actually worsened his condition.

[@obara7366]

I agree with your overall feelings and critique of the season, but almost 10 minutes in I have to disagree with you saying that ST4 doesn't explain why music saves you from Vecna. They explicitly mention how music can reach a part in your memory even when nothing else is getting through. Psychiatrists have even confirmed that this is true.

[@kidkaden5139]

How was Jason pure evil he was a teen in the 80s who saw something insane and believed what someone in the 80s would think if they saw some crazy shit like that. The way he died was probably the worst one in the show like bruh

[@angla3383]

Bruh he could literally see that Eddie wasn’t doing shit but of course his white evangelical ass thought it was satanism and of course his first reaction is to kill. OH not to mention chasing down and harassing a little girl

[@Nightman221k]

I feel like Jason's POV makes his actions seem... understandably misguided at worst. Jason was friends with Lucas even though Lucas was in Hellfire. He never was mean to Chrissy and felt devastated that she was murdered and wanted justice for her death. When he confronted Lucas he only attacked Lucas cause he incorrectly thought Lucas was going to sacrifice Max. The situation looked pretty bad. Max was in a trance in a murder house. The same kind of trance his friend went into before Vecna killed him. Jason was actually leagues better as a person than Billy who verbally abused Max and beat up Steve and was racist against Lucas over being friends with Max (yet season 3 wanted to soften up Billy). Even Season 1 Steve's actions were less justifiable than Jason's, since he slut-shamed Nancy and attacked Jonathan whose brother went missing.

[@matcha9250]

nitpicking but i cant stand the fact that robin and her crush literally look like sisters. feels like incest when they’re in the same frame together 💀

[@balabanasireti]

Yeah, it's really unnecessary nitpicking

[@carnuatus]

They look like cousins... At best, lmao.

[@LnRit02]

their dialogue is badly written and they have no chemistry either, it’s such a force. especially in comparison to her chemistry with nancy which isn’t even intentional lol. their plot line feels so out of place

[@matcha9250]

@@LnRit02 exactly. they’re like awkward cousins being forced to play together.

[@JD-jz5gu]

@@matcha9250 I mean, they only interact in like 2 or 3 scenes together. Chemistry needs to be built up, you just can’t force it

[@Mpiewizard]

I still do not understand the logic behind Vecna showing Nancy his backstory. Also, I actually really liked Argyle lol

[@anjalik1136]

Same was that really the best they could come up with

[@aldutroix3944]

My main problem with the series is that The Duffer Brothers are too afraid to kill anyone in the main cast and that takes away almost all the tension from the series. They rely too much on their fans for their writing. There's too many characters and I'd rather have seen Steve die than Eddie. Eddie would have been a great replacement for Steve, who could try his best to follow in Steve's footsteps and learn to be a real man. Instead the Duffer brothers chicken out and kill him off to cater to Steve's popularity as a character and now they're pushing him in to be with Nancy while turning Jonathan into a drug addict for zero apparent reason.

[@greendoritoman2464]

I think a lot of people's frustrations with the California and Russia stuff, plus Eddie and Jason's deaths, is that this season is essentially 8 hours of set up for most of the main characters established in season 1 to have their character arcs end. The reason why the Hawkins stuff feels a lot more compelling is that the writers are capitalizing on their last chance to essentially develop and conclude the arcs of the side characters established in later seasons, or haven't been in the spotlight for a while particularly Max and her dynamic with Lucas. The Duffers offer her a character arc that explores her survivor's guilt and grief in an extremely nuanced way, at the same time playing with themes of conformity with Lucas, who has both been an outlier as one of the few characters of colour in Hawkins and has been trying to transition from being perceived as part of the "nerds" vs being associated with the "cool" kids. Eddie and Jason both work as proxy characters to further reinforce this theme of conformity vs being an outsider. Jason is a pure evil cartoon jock psychopath because he's representative of the hysteria that swept America during the Satanic panic, as well as the clique culture expressed in John Hughes films, whereas Eddie is supposed to work as the foil to this, being a proud geek and metalhead while being stereotyped as a "weirdo" and a villain throughout the whole season. Eddie being given a heroic death not only allows the writers to avoid thinking about how they have to justify the town recognizing his innocence, but also celebrates the motif of "weirdos" and "outsiders" triumphing against conformist attitudes and battling their own personal demons. Steve and his dynamic with Dustin is contrasted with the latter's new dynamic with Eddie, and consequently Steve is written in a way that constantly reaffirms how far he's come since season 1, which is precisely why the show brings back his dynamic with Nancy. The rest of the show, aside from serving a practical purpose in trying to bring everyone back into Hawkins, is set up for every character that hasn't been mentioned previously to have their character arcs end. The California stuff only hints at something deeper with Will and Mike, as well as Jonathan's own angst about college, which is apparent by how much of it is delivered only at the end of the season. The Russia stuff, aside from trying to make hopper assess his own past, and revealing his guilt over his daughter's death, again, only serves as the beginning of his relationship with Joyce, as well as his relationship with Eleven, being rekindled. As for the eleven stuff, the arc exists solely for the purposes of dropping lore and establishing a new main antagonist. Large parts of ST4 were explicitly written with season 5 in mind, and while I don't intend for this to be a justification, I think it's inherently unfair to treat stranger things 4 as it's own complete season, or as suffering from the "miniseries problem" which has plagued previous seasons, as well as many of the Disney plus tv shows.

[@robbiesmith8055]

I desperately hope you're right about this, but I guess we'll just have to see. They outlined much of 5 before even filming 4, which is something they've never had the chance to do before, so that bodes well. Plus if Will is going to be a huge focus next season, that bodes well for Mike and Jonathan, since his relationships with them will probably take up more room as a side effect of his foregrounding. But at the same time, the characters most neglected this season have been neglected for a while now. The news about Will makes me hopeful, but the Cali guys have been increasingly sidelined for multiple seasons now, so this felt more like a continuation of that trend than a deliberate shelving so they could be brought forward later on.

[@sophiamascara]

These are exactly my thoughts about the season. Though it’s not an excuse for some of its flaws, the Duffers had their work cut out for them trying to work towards an ending for the show (season 5) and had to do so much to establish meaningful arcs for each character. I think once season 5 eventually does come out, we will look back on season 4 with more appreciation for what was being established. I have high hopes, so we’ll see how the story plays out!

[@Nightman221k]

It makes me wish during the drafting stage that Jason and Eddie didn't die for sake of just finishing off their plotline. Jason's misjudging Eddie was spurred on by the unresolved questions/trauma of the town (the school was mourning Barb, Heather, and the other people lost to the Mind Flayer) and the moronic cop dup spilling the beans that they were looking into Eddie as a suspect, and the media spreading Satanic Panic narratives. Jason was very nice to Lucas despite Lucas being a nerd and in Hellfire, so Jason wouldn't have cared about the school D&D group before Chrissy was killed. I sort of wish that the season was resolved with Eddie's being explicitly shown to Jason to NOT be the killer. Jason's arc represented the frustrations of the normal, decent people in Hawkins who don't understand what's going on and attempt to make sense of it. Having both die in pointless ways is just a way to squash the story. If Jason realized he'd blamed an innocent man, it would be interesting cause maybe he'd have to help Eddie evade arrest and try to figure out how to help Eddie clear his name or maybe in doing so Eddie and Jason would both be accused of killing Chrissy. I see more potential there than just both of them died... making their purpose in the plot minor and tangential.

[@uhuhuh1966]

I haven’t watched this yet but I’m really happy you’re making a video on the topic, because I thought the first couple of episodes were a bit cringe and then when the plot finally kicked into gear I was really enjoying it culminating in that great episode 4 moment…all for it to come crashing down in the disappointment that was Part 2. The Duffer Bros. really seem to have an issue beginning and especially ending their stories but I pretty much always enjoy their middles

[@Sm0k3turt]

Over there is much worse out there

[@solracfrrod126]

I feel the same, I've seen people super positive about this season but I felt so disappointed... it's nice to see other people feeling the same

[@rileythomas5887]

Crashing down? What more did u want? U know damn well that you loved everything until 11 restarted max’s heart. U probably wanted 5 main characters to die like the rumor going around established. They set up an intriguing endgame but for some reason everyone wants to dissect every little detail about the show to make it something’s it’s not. Just enjoy the show and stop agreeing with this nobody.

[@uhuhuh1966]

@@rileythomas5887 people don’t say that about other things, like food for example 😂 “don’t criticize it just eat it! Be grateful for the slop!” Lmao you don’t know me you have no idea how I analyze media or what I wanted or what I did/didn’t like, so no I didn’t actually like any of Part 2, and the real nobody here is you who thinks your word is the gospel. Thanks for the laugh.

[@itsjamesoh]

Wish you covered Max's "death" in greater detail, but great video nonetheless. If I had to rank the seasons (so far), it'd probably be: Season 1, Season 4, Season 2, and Season 3.

[@opheliebell22]

She's not dead

[@lauramarlandphoto3546]

Season 4 was agonizing. When I started to watch, what carried me along was, in part, Harbour's performance. He seemed to sleepwalk through the last episode. Also, the series became progressively more violent. And I had to wonder how Hopper could walk by the end of the show.

[@duggy1710]

Stranger Things often comes so close to being so good but I find every season since the first has just failed to reach its potential, I was confused at all the reactions saying it’s back to its best because I think this season was closer to the quality of seasons 2/3 if anything

[@rileyc4993]

I was really optimistic about this season before vol 2 came out. But tbh it was just slightly below season 2 in quality for me. Season 2 was definitely the closest they've come to re-creating the magic of season 1 and they just haven't gotten back to it since.

[@studionine4587]

I wasn't a big fan of Stranger Things before this season. It literally sucked me in. Mike has always been my favorite and I pray they give him more to do, better yet, an actual arch.

[@giiavvana]

arc*

[@Carl-ld5jy]

@@giiavvana No they're talking about his back

[@syra1541]

i think they might actually go for the will and mike thing next season, it would flesh out both of their characters more fs

[@dansegelov305]

As much as I still love the show, I'm getting more and more disappointed that the characters no longer act reasonably or react to situations naturally, like they did in the first season. There are so many actions taken in this series that make no sense at all. Characters are behaving in ways that make no sense for their characters. It feels to me like the plot was written first, with no consideration for the characters, and then they just tried to fit the characters around it.

[@seeelko]

I guess Vecna is a good villain but I feel like part of the reason the show was entertaining was because the Upside Down was relatively unknown and the Mind Flayer and Demogorgans were attacking Hawkins for reasons other than "I used to live there and now I'm gonna take it over". Vecna's motivation for attacking Hawkins is practically the same justification that Dr. Doom had in the Fantastic Four (2015) for attacking the world. Basically I think the show would've been better if the villain was less human. Even if it was like Vecna is being controlled by something else or is the second in command but they just straight up made the main villain a human.

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

It was that way before season 4. The main “villain” we knew of was this gigantic, mysterious, monolithic entity that was otherworldly in appearance, and was speechless, so its intentions remained unknown and ominous.

[@mukke9728]

Without having seen the video: Joyce, Will and Mike have been completely squandered, they returned to the trope to introduce a lovable character and killing him off in the same season. The Russia subplot is useless, but that is a problem that season 3 opened up, so I don´t think it is too bad as Hopper is definitely a more rounded character after this. Apart from these problems (and they are in my opinion on the larger scale not as relevant) the season slaps. Hard. Acting is as good as never before (Sadie Sink really outdid herself this season), the splitting up of stories made it overall more entertaining to watch, the editing is amazing and the story in and of itself is really the best of any season since season 1. Season 1 is probably still the best season since it didn´t feel like it had the weight of a greater scheme that was planned, but season 4 did this greater overarching story justice contrary to season 2 and 3. The "Running up that hill" scene is for me the best scene in any Stranger Things season closely followed by the Vecna reveal. Stranger Things 1 is for me a 9.5/10 and Stranger Things 4 a 9/10.

[@giorgia.m]

I didn’t enjoy parts where it felt like the season was very long but also somehow lacking any real plot or character development. Also, my least favourite part is the constant flashbacks (barring Max’s running up that hill scene because that felt like it made sense) which just feels a cheap way of trying to remind the audience of the reason we care about characters without actually adding to the majority of characters arc progression.

[@Nightman221k]

I noticed that too. The season would have a significant chunk of time cut out if they relied more on showing the characters contemplating rather than having a flashback every time.

[@lucan_nn]

i love eddie, his relationship with dustin was great 😪 i feel like dustin started to like and care more about eddie than he did with steve tbh…the fact that dustin knew eddie was innocent, him wanting to help clear eddie’s name, keep him safe, him worrying about eddie, him looking up to eddie, also him going back into the upside down, breaking his leg in order to save eddie 💔 he really cared for him, im sad eddie died and dustin lost someone he loved. i wish we got more moments of them two.

[@epb222]

Steve went to Jonathan’s house to say sorry, he didn’t *bring* a weapon. Also, Jason isn’t actually evil, just very arrogant and blind to new information that doesn’t fit his preconceived ideas about Chrissy and the world.

[@radhiadeedou8286]

I was very confused when he said that, Jason wasn't evil, he lost the girl he loved and everyone keeps telling him that she was buying drugs which seems to him like they're insulting her memory, he's devastated and ignorant, and looking for justice in the worst way possible

[@GeminiBabe1996]

One critique I have is the episodes were about 1.5 hours, but didn’t use that time to let mysteries unfold. I felt lots of questions were answered quickly by the characters instead of allowing the audience to figure them out as they do. Same with the dialogue… not much subtext.

[@syra1541]

except for a lot of will's scenes, the dialogue was SO heavyhanded, and even the direction is so in-your-face, which can be charming and engaging but it feels so odd when applied in what used to be a mystery show?

[@MintyCow101]

My main issue is how they kill off great characters that dont get more screen time. Especially right now with Eddie, he was so great and made a huge impact on my life when he showed up, the actor is so genuine and kind. His character deserved better and more screen time but again, they just killed him off instead of adding someone new. Robin and Max managed to stay why cant others?

[@lucan_nn]

exactlyyy

[@sozi6451]

i heard a theory that he will return (which seeing as how popular his character has gotten, probably the most loved sideish character of the whole show) because since he got bitten by those bats, then died. he’ll return as some sort of vampire because apparently in dnd there’s a vampire character if they did that it wouldn’t feel like what they did with hopper and max because there’s an actual reason for him coming back to life instead of just the duffer brothers being afraid to kill off their mains

[@austinwitham109]

@@sozi6451 also the choice to use Master of Puppets implying Vecna will use Eddie as a puppet, likely to mess with and hurt Dustin. There's also the Iron Maiden character Eddie the Head who happens to be a bizarre mesh of zombie, vampire, and robot.

[@Nightman221k]

​@@sozi6451 That's a pretty goofy theory, so Steve would become a vampire too? The show has enough characters without always bringing back dead ones after killing them in a season finale like last time with Hopper.

[@ShadowKaiserin]

Just a note, they do actually explain why listening to your favorite song allows you to escape Vecna's attack. Nancy specifically mentions as they're running back to the car that music touches parts of the brain that other things can't reach, which is real science. It disrupts his illusion which seems to be based on drowning in your own despair.

[@BradsPitts.]

Everyone’s just become so Flanderized that it just feels like a horror sitcom

[@marinakliueva9634]

Hi Taylor! Completely unrelated to the topic of the video, but: as a non-native English speaker, I am in awe of your eloquence and what a great speaker/narrator you are. Just watching your videos helps me to enhance my own vocabulary and become a better speaker myself, so thank you for that :)

[@youdonthavetolikemeiloveme3621]

9:54 in earlier seasons(1+2) the song Should I stay or Should I go was used in a similar way, with Will blasting it through Jonathan’s room from the UD, or humming it through the walkie-talkie, and then it’s played again in the interrogation scene from s2 But it’s less explicit than season 4

[@dianab2428]

After many years i finally decided to watch st, and i binged it all in one week, only because i wanted to get to the vecna monologue scene. I have to say, for a show that was apparently planned from the start (edit: it actually wasn’t) it barely feels like it, s01 being the best, s02 feeling like a kind of cheap follow-up of s01 but still kind of making sense, s03 being just... no. the moment they started giving romantic relationships more attention was when it absolutely hit rock bottom. I understand the kids are growing up but having to watch two supposed 13 y/o having make out sessions was uncomfortable, and on top of that eleven is just now getting to experience the real world, she doesn't even know how romantic relationships work??? let her character develop for god's sake. She's been considered a part of the party this whole time and yet she almost doesn't even get any scenes with the rest of the group unless they're trying to figure stuff out or it's a reunion after the big final battle. Hopper was absolutely right about her spending too much time with mike, and honestly it wouldn't have bothered me if they were just friends and mike felt overly protective of her because he was the one who basically cared for her in s01 (hiding her in his basement and all that) and he has to learn that she is growing and he can't protect her from everything or something idk. Also it would have been great to have scenes between her and Hopper that aren't them just arguing all the time, because i rarely ever get the sense of them being father and daughter if it weren't for Hopper talking so much about her, and that's too much telling and not showing. The only moment we got any sense of the relationship they had was in their hug scene before everything goes south and his heart to heart letter, and i was like?? just having one scene where they're having fun together would've been enough. Anyway, the focus on stupid teenage romance (and romance in general, the joyce-hopper thing too) really takes away from so many interesting family and friends dynamic, the Duffer brothers really think they're doing something with all the romace drama and it's literally the exact thing that hinders the show from being great, there's so much wasted potential, and there's still a lot of things i didn't like that i didn't touch on xD TL;DR: it's the poor handling of eleven's character that really bothers me, especially how she and Mike have been glued at the hip and aren't allowed to develop and grow outside their relationship, letting Mike's character abslutely flop and dragging the whole dynamic of the party down with him. S04 was a solid 6.5/10, and nothing will ever come close to s01, sadly. I apologize for this essay but god does some of the writing on this show make me want to bash my head into a wall.

[@GabesEdtiz]

The series was never fully planned from the start. Where did you hear that?

[@dianab2428]

@@GabesEdtiz I honestly don’t know, I subconsciously assumed it, and after commenting I went and checked and apparently they wanted to do a twilight zone type of show? But the cast was so well liked that they scratched that idea, which although I think it’s a good show even with all its faults, it’s still a pity because that idea sounds quite fun and different. Anyway, then I forgot to edit my comment xD

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

I agree. Eleven mingling with the rest of the group that quickly was pretty unrealistic, considering how she was used as a weapon and brutally abused prior to that. And I’m pretty sure Eleven is supposed to be 14 by the time of season 3, not 13, but that doesn’t make it any less disturbing.

[@jackaylward-williams9064]

I think that the younger actors ageing more than their characters due to the COVID hiatus was actually somewhat beneficial. If you do the maths, Mike, Eleven, and co are supposed to be the same age as Steve, Jonathan, and Nancy were in the first season, but the actors were all a good 2 or 3 years younger when the fourth season was made, an age gap which would have been even larger if they’d made the season when they initially intended to. On the other hand, Erica is supposed to be a year younger than the other kids were in season 1, but Priah Ferguson is several years older than any of the other actors were thanks to the hiatus.

[@deadpoolvega]

Season 1 it's basically a masterpiece. My favorite season and one of the best experiences I've had this year! But the other seasons just felt sooo empty. People are over hyping but tbh season 1 is iconic

[@adeadchannel870]

Your video is literally just the argument I've been telling my ST obsessed friends, like beat for beat

[@CredibleCommenter]

You sound really fun and like your ST fan friends love you

[@Aster_Risk]

@@CredibleCommenter Their friends probably do love them, because it's possible to have differing opinions on TV shows.

[@CredibleCommenter]

@@Aster_Risk yeah, and the “friend” who constantly bashes something when we’re all enjoying it is the friend we stop inviting to hang out with us. Having differing opinions is fine, continually bashing something all your friends like but you don’t is a way to lose a couple friends.

[@howardmctroy3303]

I was never a Stranger Things fan, but after watching the bare minimum of this season I now dislike it.

[@dorkydoodle3573]

I’m kinda torn on this season. On one hand, I like a lot of the concepts, pairings, dynamics, and new characters they introduced, and I think Dear Billy in particular was one of the show’s best eps since Season 1. But at the same time it felt like they were trying to do too much and started to lean into that more “Marvel-y” feel. There were a lot of things I liked about this season, especially with how they left off on Vol 1 and let the fans go wild for a month with series about how it would continue, there was so much mystery and suspense with how everything would turn out, but I was kind of disappointed and felt like there were a lot of other smaller problems that weighed the whole season down. They did a lot of the characters dirty like Will and Steve and the writing wasn’t as air-tight as it was in s1, but with the promise of s5 going back to that original vision I hope they’ll be able to tie everything together in the end. I really liked the concept of this season, introducing a larger villain than the Mind Flayer and having the group grow apart and be split, but I agree that the scope was wayyy too bloated and it didn’t really feel like the same show that season 1 was.

[@dancortes180]

I would've liked seeing at least Max die. They crafted the perfect opportunity to make it look less gory by stopping the gruesome kill process and it would've helped pushing the group's growth along with Eddie's death. I also think that Eleven "remembering" her powers was the cheapest device to push flashbacks and it could've been handled so much better.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

That’s my biggest problem with this season. There is no danger for our characters AT ALL. Steve, Robin and Nancy get strangled by Vecna? Nah they cut away from them so they’ll be fine. Max gets horrifically mutated to the point of being blind? No problem. El will just use the force to save her. Hopper gets vaporized by a large weapon? Not a problem. He’ll just run down stairs that weren’t established before and escape. Eleven heals Max across space and time? Nah she’s not physically affected by that at all. It’s the same shit. I knew everyone was going to be fine and it’s boring. If your characters aren’t in any danger, why should you be invested in whether or not they’re going to be okay?

[@somebody2659]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 I mostly agree, but tbh quite a lot of people dont understand that Eleven only jumpstarted Max's heart again with her powers, she doesn't have any 'mystical healing' powers, she pretty much used her powers as defibrillators.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

@@somebody2659 Even though she's never used her powers to heal anyone prior to Max. It's just a cop out.

[@somebody2659]

@@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343 Because her powers have never been this powerful since she was at the lab and sent 001 to the upside down. Since then and before now her powers have been much weaker than usual so it makes sense. And dont tell me if they did kill her half the fanbase wouldnt be screaming in protest.

[@sophieamandaleitontoomey9343]

@@somebody2659 Oh come on. Eleven has never had the ability to heal before. Now her powers can just basically do anything.

[@jaimeerindy4573]

"The Mini Series...Unless" is the greatest name I've ever heard for this concept, excuse me while I use it everywhere now

[@beths876]

Thank you for not shitting on Eddie Munson. Would have lost my mind otherwise.

[@Aster_Risk]

I don't know how anyone could possibly not like Eddie.

[@DreamsUnending]

Flashbacks during this season we're pretty annoying, same as will grabbing his neck in the previous one's

[@blurryperson2685]

What stranger things made me realize is anything without any originality and thats super mediocre can be praised to high heavens if it's trending on Netflix lmfao

[@chrisg2214]

Argyle was hilarious. How dare you! You’re lucky you don’t get schmacked! My biggest gripe is that all the main characters are safe and they keep faking the deaths. It’s annoying! No one’s truly at risk from the main cast.

[@jstarASMR3103]

Plainly put, I thought this season was cheesy, cringe, and just plain dumb. And as you said, because this is stranger things, people ate it uppp

[@Xanegoh]

I still want to know how Brenner was alive after season 1. And unscathed too.

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

You could visibly see a scar on his face in S4, despite the event canonically happening 3 years prior, don’t know what you’re talking about when you call him “unscathed”

[@devin7043]

They never really showed him dying they just showed a demogorgon pouncing on top of him. For all we know he could’ve been fighting it off and one of his goons distracted it

[@harleydill5854]

I don’t think it’s a favorite song but more like a song that means a lot on an emotional level.

[@sasha-dt5vk]

it felt like everything that wasn’t happening in Hawkins this season could have been cut with a few rewrites

[@robbiesmith8055]

Hopper should have just stayed dead. It services the plot because it gives us a reason to actually feel like the main characters are in danger, not just the loveable newbies, and it would have freed up a hell of a lot of screen time for other characters. If they hadn't spent so much time dicking around in Russia, there might have been enough time for the California characters to actually have a meaningful contribution to the series, instead of just going on a side mission to Suzie's and kneeling around a bathtub in the finale..

[@sasha-dt5vk]

@@robbiesmith8055 right!! or, get this, ditch the entire russia subplot starting with season 3. way too wacky and wild and i felt like it distracted from the actual story. it could have been a smaller subplot but it wasn’t strong enough to be the finale, and since it was in the finale it ended up needing a big climactic ending. i really hate the russia stuff which sucks because hopper and joyce were some of my favourite characters in seasons 1 and 2, but they’re just pointless now.

[@robbiesmith8055]

@@sasha-dt5vk Completely agree with you there. I don't *hate* the Russia stuff in 3, but it rubs me the wrong way how explicitly anti-Russian the show became all of a sudden. Like don't get me wrong, I'm not the biggest fan of those guys at the moment given what's going on in Europe. But out of the army of random Russian characters and extras we've seen for 2 seasons, only 2 of them have any redeemable qualities. All the Russians feel like cartoon villains instead of real people (and one of the only ones who doesn't is a sweet Russian scientist who just loves good ol' American capitalism ya know), and their subplots just drag.

[@comealsolito804]

I've got an unusual kind of affection for this show and I will always love it, but nonetheless I think the writers just can't make something good as the first season. Season 4 is the most enjoyable of the latest seasons, but the butchering of dialogues and characters keeps going and when you rewatch the first season it almost feels like it's done by different writers, everything was so tightly written while now they just don't care about some characters and other shit.

[@a.l.p.h.a.6094]

I find this analysis very well put together, but honestly, I still can’t help but be conflicted about Vecna. On the one hand, from the moment we knew that Eleven was … well, Eleven, that implied the existence of a One, which I think we all knew would be important later. And a human connection *does* make the story feel more impactful, in some ways, but on the other hand….. Vecna’s just a mass shooter with a god complex. That’s it. He’s like a textbook slasher villain. And faceless forces of nature have their *own* appeal to them, that’s why so many people like cosmic horror. I was kinda disappointed to see it strongly implied that Vecna full on *was* the consciousness behind the Mind Flayer and the Upside Down, and I hope a soft retcon in season 5 makes it more like he found some unfathomable intelligence and pointed it in the direction of Earth.

[@coolbeans5911]

Thnx the hype really was overblown on this one. I was really hoping the show would redeem itself but it's lost its initial charm long ago. Damn shame

[@eoghanclark165]

Personally I loved every season of strange things. Never understood why people want s1 on repeat. Sure the series has problems, but so did s1, and overall it works excellently. So yeah, they didn't fix it. It never needed to be fixed.

[@promienodrzutowysamuel790]

They killed off the ONE character who listens to Iron Maiden (The band was never namedropped, but in the "THIS IS MUSIC" scene Eddie is holding an Iron Maiden cassete, I believe Piece of Mind) after one season of screentime, in the dumbest way possible, and I will never forgive them for it.

[@connerdearing]

This show has become such an enigma because despite all we dislike about it, we all still tune in. I still enjoy the show, but as with most people, the first season is my absolute favorite. It’s just fantastic. I think when season 2 came out I could see that something was changing. By season 3 I was feeling a little burned out. I think it all lands on how successful the first season was. This show would’ve worked so well as an anthology. An actually good one not American horror story type shit. But the problem is that the first season and it’s characters were just too lovable. So the duffers couldn’t scrap them because they were clearly afraid people wouldn’t keep watching. Now we get new characters who are interesting in their first appearance and then completely butchered going onward. Robin is basically a completely different person and just a cringe character. We just have too much going on in this show. There’s no room to give anyone any development at all. I enjoy the show while I watch but when I turn it off all I can think about is how good it might’ve been if we could’ve gotten seasons as good as 1 over and over.

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

The 008 arch was reminiscent of the anthology stranger things would have been. Of course, it didn’t fit well into the actual story, but an anthology could definitely have worked

[@radhiadeedou8286]

It's not that enigmatic, compared to everything else, even a bad season of stranger things is still good TV

[@carnuatus]

It started out so strong and then they bungled it with part two. 🤦🏻‍♀️ ALSO why did they extend to season 5?? I thought they were only doing 4 seasons. 🙄

[@OceanIgs]

It really felt like we're finally reaching a finale but no...

[@juanjoyaborja.3054]

They told that they were planning to do 5 seasons even before season 4 released, you just didn’t pay attention

[@FridaAvosetta]

I do hate that the only brown (let’s face it, Native-coded) character they have as part of the main crew is basically a caricature of dumb, substance-abusing reactivity and is made to also seem like he’s dragging down the sweet pure white boy. And the white boy, who’s also participating in that behavior, is somehow leagues more capable and has to manage Argyle constantly. They couldn’t even throw in a moment of him having actual nuance to his character, and the only time he has any intentional impact is to act as an ambassador (“speak the language” in all its racially motivated glory) to the only other brown character, equally dumb and drug-motivated. I’m so happy we have excellent black representation in this show, but the way they treat brown characters is appalling.

[@judithfurmston3731]

You see Argyle as "Dumb"? He's High all the time and is coded as having some sort of anxiety. Arglye is an emotional, empathetic character and he's really open minded. I really warmed to him.

[@mr.smith45]

Where in the fuck do you come up with this shit

[@FridaAvosetta]

@UCsi2KjjD5VWpZ_wjyVhM34A it’s almost like brown people and black people aren’t the same and get discriminated against in different ways 🤔 Also Jonathan was not treated the same way. Sure he was chastised but he was still given plenty of nuance and moments to be an intentionally helpful part of the team, going so far as to actually take care of and chastise Argyle himself on multiple occasions.