What Retro Games Do You Want To See At Evo?

[@TheXiahouDun]

I want to see Soul Calibur 2.

[@janematthews9087]

You have to find soil calibur players first. And then you have to find someone in the Evo office that cares about SC2 competitive to bring it up for discussion. Then maybe.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

@@janematthews9087 Yeah. Retro 3d tournaments at Evo are out of question to me, because the the early face of that early tournament scene that turned into Evo is strictly Capcom 2d fgs. It was Capcom fanboys growing only their own stuff at first, then the event was too good and they opened it to different franchises... still being Capcom focused for a long time. So i can only imagine realistically a choice among SF3, SF2, MvC2 or CvS2... the same classic quartet from the 00s Evos. And if it was 2 retro slots i'm sure it would be 2 Capcom games.

[@Ryusuta]

What retro fighting games do I want to see at Evo? My answer is... yes.

[@vodkagobalsky]

We're doing surprise retro games at CAX every year now. We got some surprises in store for 2025. Get ready!

[@littleakibagames]

A couple notes... I would LOVE to see the VSav community get that spotlight. When I was working on the World Warriors project (that I still can't decide whether to pick back up or finally shutter), I absolutely fell in love with the VSav community and all the hype they brought to all their events. The game and the community both deserve more exposure, an Evo main stage appearance is more than warranted. I'm going to do a video on this myself at some point, but the performance of classic fighting games in the Evo lineup really feels like an indictment of how some of the so-called "new hotness" is performing. I'd say it's time to put the MKs and (as much as it pains me to say it) KOFs on notice, and see about acknowledging that some games (like 3S, MvC2, CvS2) are just intrinsically foundational to Evo as an institution and should never be rotated out.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

If there is another retro tournament and it's 1 "retro slot", no doubt it will be given to a Capcom fg. And if there are 2 slots, it's probably going to 2 Capcom fgs anyway. Because like you said, Capcom fgs have "foundational" value as they built the whole culture, and Evo even started being Capcom only. Now speaking but the Capcom fgs, DS for some reason doesn't have solid roots in the arcade scene, though it looks like a game that should have made a bigger impact in the u.s, so it never appeared at Evo. That way it's an "exotic" game, more or less like SNK games, that never appeared in the 00s Evos. So giving that retro slot to DS would feel forced.

[@DevilBatKick]

Fatal Fury Real Bout 2 would be so hype to see on the main stage.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

Ok, i'm not against that personally, but it has nothing to do with the american fgc culture, Evo history, etc... And that's what this "retro slot" at Evo seems to be all about. Btw not only RBFF2 has no chances but any FF at all, or any SNK fg at all. After all Evo never had any SNK fg before KOF 13, only when the event became more "commercial" 10 years later, and that gives a good idea of the fgc interests and their feelings for SNK in the 00s.

[@miguelangelsanchezrojas5972]

Now that city of the wolves put fatal fury on the public sight I'd like to see Real Bout special, of course MOTW have more possibilities but yeah I love RBS it's the best imo even better than RB2 If I can add any game I'd like to see a DOA even as a little exhibition matches. DOA deserves more love but I know that's never happening

[@Robstafarian]

Blue Mary is so wonderfully broken in RBS.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

Ok, i'm not against that personally, but it has nothing to do with the american fgc culture, Evo history, etc... And that's what this "retro slot" at Evo seems to be all about. Btw not only RBFFS or even MOTW has no chances but any FF at all, or any SNK fg at all. After all Evo never had any SNK fg before KOF 13, only when the event became more "commercial" 10 years later, and that gives a good idea of the fgc interests and their feelings for SNK in the 00s. So giving a limited slot to a SNK game would feel forced. Also even if bias and favoritism was a factor, the Evo staff is surely not biased for SNK at all.

[@Robstafarian]

@@carlosaugusto9821 Excluding SNK is forced because this venue, among limited venues of its type, should reflect the history of fighting games rather than the history of marketing corrupting the culture.

[@BrassMountainLion]

I'd love to see more retro games show up on the Evo mainstage. VSav, Martial Masters, Last Blade, or even something like Daraku Tenshi TFA could be hype. There's room in the Evo lineup for games important to EVO's legacy and also those that never got much exposure, imo.

[@아이스크림-u3x]

I wanna see USF4 at evo main stage

[@ThaPremiere1]

EVERY YEAR!! I WILL PAY TO SEE IT!!!

[@FireTrainer92]

Umk3 would be very interesting

[@Skkra]

Could be. There is a lot of high level footage from east coast tournaments from about a decade ago. The level of play is sick, but not sure how interesting it is for casual spectators? It is amazing to watch, especially if you know what is happening.

[@TonyTheTGR]

Sub-Zero, Kabal, Cyber-Smoke, and Stryker would dominate; but I'd tune in for it.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

@@Skkra I have no strong bias for MK at all (if anything i'm a bit biased to Capcom and SNK) but i still say that UMK3 has higher watching potential than SF2... and i'm not even focusing on Vega play and gimmick plays like O. Hawk grabs. It's just that UMK3 advanced gameplay mechanics to a point of offering a high watching potential and having more chances of looking fine for the outside viewer, even who has no nostalgia about it... meanwhile i believe that choosing SF2 for the retro tournament and the viewer experience needs to be heavily carried by nostalgia. SF2 probably looks too rough for the total outsider, more than games from the mid-late 90s and 00s.

[@Skkra]

@@carlosaugusto9821 valid points. Though years ago, they did do the Super Turbo "tournament of legends" on Evo main stage, commentated by James and David, and the crowd was going ballistic for it. If you havent seen it, its worth checking it out. I was there for it and it was absolutely awesome.

[@LoaRicardo]

I would love to see any Real Bout

[@vodkagobalsky]

We would get rolled by the Japanese in ST. Hokuto would be our only hope.

[@condescending28]

I'm 43, I don't want to see Super Street Fighter II Turbo on stage. I'm one of the few old heads who does not like any version of Street Fighter II. I loved it as a kid, but we didn't have that much to compare it to the first few years of it. I don't care to watch it or play it. I mean I rather play it than any Mortal Kombat game, but that's about it.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

I grew with SF2 but i think it's not good enough for a retro tournament in this current context. If it was years ago i would think differently, but it became more important to focus on viewership... because the fg scene nowadays actually got to a point where it has more growth potential than ever before, so it's important to take any opportunity. And there are other retro games from that classic generation with much higher viewership potential, so it's not a good idea to choose SF2, except for an over nostalgic fanboy in the Evo staff.

[@Magus12000BC]

Ranma 1/2: Chougi Ranbu Hen just got a patch that stabilizes the frame rate. Let's put that beast up on the main stage.

[@Getdown8319]

Straight up I love watching a high level chun yun match in 3S.

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah, if you know the game really well, it's always a blessing to watch top players regardless of the matchup. The problem is more like I said when UMvC3 was back at Evo and a lot of newer viewers were actually confused why we love the game so much because of the long combos etc. But if you know UMvC3, the Neutral is SO GOOD. Hahaha. Even when it is Zero May Cry. But it's hard to see without having that depth of knowledge.

[@Getdown8319]

@@UltraChenTV 100% agree.

[@Albert-lj5jb]

I think one year we need a double header of both ST and Alpha 2 since those two were the original tournaments back in the very first battle by the bay

[@TonyTheTGR]

The King of Fighters XI Soul Calibur II or III Garou MotW Tekken 5 Marvel Super Heroes ...and honestly, I think DOA 2 Ultimate or Virtua Fighter 4 Evolution would be a nice, unexpected drop for the underrepresented series.

[@TonyTheTGR]

I was actually specing out a whole series of retro tournament ideas - taking a selection of years and doing a "what if..." version of how those would play out with the more diverse game selections. I'm not entirely sure if this was just a KZbin/Twitch show idea, some kind of tutorial/breakdown thing, or maybe a minimalist fangame/demake thing; but I'd like some feedback on it if you're game. Granted, with all the Capcom Collections dropping now, it might be a moot point, or just something only I think would be cool? But the timing of this makes me wonder if I'm wrong about second-guessing that.

[@UltraChenTV]

KOFXI would be so cool!!

[@666slateran666]

Bloody roar is my personal answer but realistically CvS2 with the capcom fighting collection 2 makes sense

[@hermawanho6962]

Samurai Shodown 4, King of Fighters 94

[@kholdkhaos64ray11]

So many good games that should get the spotlight; not enough slots or time 😔

[@carlosaugusto9821]

More good options than an entire Evo lineup can handle. After all there were more fgs in the 90s actually, and many good ones.

[@Robstafarian]

I want to see Virtua Fighter in the retro slot: 3TB if it has to be that old, 4Evo if we can go newer and a domestic US release is required, or 4FT if we can go newer and a domestic US release is not required. I feel like Virtua Fighter 5 Ultimate Showdown probably would put Virtua Fighter 5 too far from the "retro" category for the organizers to consider it. If this ever happens, then Itazan and the rest need special scheduling accommodations such that the pro points do not prevent them from playing VF.

[@UltraChenTV]

I personally would let VF5 rock as a retro game! I think it would be awesome to have VF5 at Evo!

[@ElAzulVGM]

VSAV would be perfect, it’s got everything you want in a retro event for a mainstream audience. Low barrier to entry but a high skill ceiling. Good balance for a game of that era so you actually see a lot of matchups. High enough damage and speed for super hype comebacks to happen without any extra meters or anything that would be confusing to new players/viewers (yeah tech hits are a bit obtuse to perform but they’re easy and intuitive to understand for the viewer) and of course an amazing community with some great commentators. It’s so dynamic and scramble-y you never really know what’s gonna happen so it’s always hype, almost the antithesis of MVC2 lol

[@UltraChenTV]

And full 2/3 matches last 2 minutes. Hahaha!

[@ElAzulVGM]

@@UltraChenTVOh come oooon we clearly just need to sell everyone on a FT5 format! Okay maybe I’m actually being delusional now lol

[@UltraChenTV]

It's funny. I'm often assigned by TOs to do commentary for Vampire Savior at events. And fortunately, most of the VS community have been okay with me commentating on the game. But every time I'm there, I always ask: why haven't you guys moves to first to 3 (aka best of 5) yet? And they said it's just tradition. They're more used to it this way. Hahaha. So I dunno. I think this game, IF ANY FIGHTING GAME COULD, should be at least first to 3. Even if that's only top 8, but having it that way the ENTIRE tournament would be great, IMO.

[@ElAzulVGM]

@@UltraChenTV Yeah totally agree the matches should be longer. Like if I’m playing casuals online or local with friends I’m never doing FT2! But then again I’ve never been to a major hah. I guess the FGC is just kinda weird like that sometimes with tradition. Like look at MK too right? On what planet does MK need to be FT3?? Those games have never moved particularly fast but especially in the later ones it’s just too damn slow! Because of that a full match of MK1 ends up lasting what, five or six times longer than a full match of vsav? Kind of nuts!

[@DumpsterM0nkey6]

The only concern I have with MVC2 NEXT YEAR is at some point they're gonna have to do a non Capcom game for the Throwback game. I think next year is the time for one of the non Capcom games, MK9 or X, KI, Soul Calibur 2, Melee (if nintendo plays ball) Or even Mario Kart DS.....

[@UltraChenTV]

Mario Kart DS, eh? Maybe can get top 8 at Evo again then. Hahaha!

[@d4cheartbeam]

Mortal Kombat X and evo can have my soul

[@UltraChenTV]

Honestly, it's still TOO recent, IMO, to be a retro game. But it's only two years older than Killer Instinct, which I think could qualify. I mean... 2015. That was almost a decade ago. Holy crap time flies. LOLOL! Okay, nevermind. MKX totally qualifies. And I think that would be an EXCELLENT choice. That game still has legs, for sure.

[@Skkra]

Eternal Champions would be fun. I'd personally love to see MK2. Clayfighter I think is too busted to be interesting?... Original Tekken Tag would be A++++++

[@bobhoskins-kl6ue]

NES Pro Wrestling, it's a no brainer

[@UltraChenTV]

Especially after your brain gets a good swift Back Brain Kick from Fighter Hayabusa!!!

[@preplocc]

Hi Chen Question: why were some main characters like 'Chun Li' for example, nerfed, and others buffed?

[@UltraChenTV]

In which game? Street Fighter 6? I mean, Chun was BARELY nerfed in that game. Also, in Season 1, many had her in top 3, especially Japan. I still think she's super good. The hardest part about Street Fighter 6 balance right now is that because Drive Rush and Drive Rush Cancels are so strong, the unique aspect of characters are a bit more muted than previous Street Fighters. SF6 definitely has the strongest presence of System Mechanics, and with an actual esports circuit, if a character has ever so slight advantages over Chun, a lot of people will move off of her like we've seen. I think she's still good, but I wouldn't mind buffing her a little more. We may even see that in Terry's Patch. Fingers crossed!

[@digitalrex5]

I'd love to see Alpha 2 or 3 back. Another idea I had was to do a random neo geo KOF game that isn't 98 or 02.

[@TonyTheTGR]

That would be KoF 2000 and it will be nothing but Joe Higashi assist TODs.

[@UltraChenTV]

KOFXI. KOFXI free. It could spawn a whole resurgence when people see how chaotic and broken that game is!

[@digitalrex5]

@@UltraChenTV playing these old games I get the impression that they were designed more for munching quarters than balance. XI would would great on modern systems and if MVC2 is anything to go by Dreamcast based hardware emulation has gotten pretty good

[@UltraChenTV]

I also just honestly think that... they didn't know what they were doing as much. I mean, the stories of SNK around that time, man, they were going bankrupt and getting new owners and we were shifting hardware all over the place and arcades were dying... These days, they can focus a lot more on a solid product as opposed to just trying to make sure they got a new KOF out in time for the new year. Hahaha.

[@DANCERcow]

Clay fighters 63 1/3 would be the best and only correct choice!

[@AdversaryOne]

Let's not waste too much stage time and resources on old games at EVO. All featured main stage games should be something current and active that was made within the last decade. Let's keep it pushing.

[@Counselor-yj8hk]

How about no.

[@UltraChenTV]

Right. That’s why I said only top 4 for those games and we rattle through them quickly if we did the idea of multiple retro games. We definitely don’t want them taking up too much time, but getting a chance to showcase our history is awesome, IMO.

[@L3X3CUTION3R]

Weaponlord would be great to see at Evo.

[@HRinc]

Pit Fighter 🐐

[@castries]

EX2/Alpha 3!

[@TonyTheTGR]

SFEX 2 would be fantastic.

[@Felipera_]

I havent watched it yet, but let me take a guess at what James wants: starts with dark and ends with stalkers

[@Felipera_]

Vampire savior, close enough 😂

[@UltraChenTV]

The nice thing about Vampire Savior is that is HAS a dedicated scene. And if we want to see high level VS, it’s there. So while I’d like it one year for sure, I almost kinda wanna lean more towards the more obscure stuff that isn’t completely niche. Obviously we could include games no one plays, but I’d rather include really small scenes that HAVE a player base. Like I know SFEX2 and UMK3 have some hardcore players out there, still.

[@Lot665musicalbox]

ST! Or Hyper Fighting!

[@ardidsonriente2223]

Killer Instinct. The last one. It is already retro.

[@UltraChenTV]

I agree. If MvC2 didn’t come out in this collection, I totally would have thought the recent KI would be the next one.

[@SomniaCE]

It makes me sad that Capcom is probably gonna unintentionally have a pretty big monopoly on the classic game slot. I'd love for Soul Calibur 2, Tekkem 5 DR or an old KoF to get the spot at some point. While I'd love for unpopular/niche games to get picked I'm sure the EVO team want the retro game to get meaningful entry counts to justify it having a slot over any other contemporary game on main stage. Waku Waku 7 or VF4 would be such a fucking treat and would lowkey get me to spend the money on EVO.

[@UltraChenTV]

That’s why I always had the idea for the 4 retro games concept, to open the door for more games from other companies. 1 a year is probably a good number, but it means we’ll never see a bunch of really fascinating games that I’d LOVE to see get a chance to show off their stuff.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

OK, but that choice is still what probably corresponds to the idea of a retro tournament in first place. It's something that has to do with the early Evo history, the early competitive scene even before Evo, etc. The fact is that everything in the scene was build by Capcom fgs, and the first Evo was even Capcom only. Those Evos in the 00s never had a single SNK game for example, and the company was not part of the scene at all. So if any SNK game took the slot it would feel forced. Not much different from when certain games are removed in favor of certain new releases, in the more commercial phase of Evo after the 2010s. But in this case it's obvious that there is a strong bias from the staff in the lineup decisions.

[@SomniaCE]

@carlosaugusto9821 This is an incredibly silly way at looking at the retro game imo. Revisionist history, very USA-focused when viewing what games deserve it, the list goes on. It makes sense for a Capcom bias to exist because of their general influence on the scene, but lets not pretend that outside of SF and MvC they don't really have a lot of retro games that much more deserving of slots than your Namco or SNK classics. The Capcom bias has nothing to do with celebrating EVO's history because clearly EVO has cared more about celebrating as much of the scene as possible for far longer than it existed to celebrate its own regional ecosystem. The fact the event is expanding to be hosted globally is a giant testament to that. Outside of SF2, SF3, MvC2 and MvC3 I wouldn't say any Capcom game has so much more influence over SNK or Namco's catalogue to deserve a spot more. I love Darkstalkers, SF Alpha and CvS2 but I certainly wouldn't put them above games like SC2, T5DR, VF or any number of other retro games.

[@Rei_Tatekei]

KOF 02 UM

[@AceBadguy]

I would like to see Shaq Fu at Evo.

[@SquattingxBear]

Marvel 2 and Melee

[@nocandoslurms433]

Alpha 2!

[@mikep4957]

MvC2 for sure.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

ST is not good for a retro tournament in the current age, when it's a bit more complicated than in the time of Tournament of Legends and there must be a more serious consideration about optimal viewership. Also the new wave of audience probably means more outsiders without nostalgia for SF2. And the thing is that it's very likely that other retro games, with a little more elaborate mechanics, can work better than ST in viewership potential even for an outsider who didn't grow with it. Especially CvS2. Then types like MvC2 are confusing for outsider eyes, but i believe it might still look more interesting than the typical ST high level match (not even picking on extreme examples like Vega play).

[@unrulydgj9589]

I’d love to see KOF 98 but I fear that I’d have to wait years until all the capcom games are done first

[@carlosaugusto9821]

Almost impossible because KOF (or any SNK game) has nothing to do with the american fgc and Evo history. These retro tournaments have a whole natural idea of throwback, so it makes little sense to pick anything besides games from the oldest Evos. Also i doubt the current Evo staff is biased towards SNK or KOF, and that makes the chances even lower.

[@carlosaugusto9821]

Can't even bother waste my time dreaming of something unrealistic in this case, because this is not the context of a retro tournament pulled off in the early 2010s Evo or something. So i think realistically that the choices for future retro tournaments will be focused on SF and Capcom crossovers. The point is that it makes more sense to me to think that a retro tournament is meant to remind of the old times, so the game choice will probably follow the logic of historical importance for the american arcade scene, early Evo history, etc. So Jojo for example, it also seems out of question. And i believe Darkstalkers has kind of low chances too... but still some chances. The way i see it, that's complicated because DS has this particular status of being very influential to the genre, having a few huge popular chars who made a strong reputation for their crossover appearances, but the own franchise didn't do well and wasn't even taken to the competitive scene in the 2000s, when Evo was more receptive to old 2d Capcom fgs (than the 2010s Evos). Honestly I never understood that part of the 2000s fgc history... Like, the "DS" that got in an Evo lineup was only Mario Kart DS.

[@AnnCatsanndra]

Get Bloody Roar on the streams at Evo on the regular and the furries will show up in droves.

[@gr33nl4nt3rn]

A part of me thinks for some old school games it would be better to get team matches where teams can't duplicate characters. This will fix a lot of the old games with bad balance, but then of course we get less entrants either unable to or not wanting to join up as a team. Also team matches are tough to run, especially for events with tight schedules like EVO

[@LAST1GGK]

Can melee count as a retro game yet 😭😭

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah. But Nintendo won’t let Evo run Smash. Otherwise it would be there 100%.

[@LAST1GGK]

@@UltraChenTV ARE YOU KIDDING GODDANG BRO SOMETHING HAS GO TO GIVE 😭😭😭😭😭

[@UltraChenTV]

Yeah. Absolutely. After Evo got bought out by RTS, which is owned by Sony, Nintendo hasn't allowed Smash to be at Evo. At least, that's the VERY heavily implied reason. There was a video where Rick basically said "Nintendo has other ideas" and that they'd actually love to have Smash back in the future. x.com/AdrianRadio93/status/1554834958606159878

[@giantdinoboy8264]

Super Turbo would be great. Everyone in the game is viable because the high stun damage is the great equalizer. Edit: Guilty Gear AC+r would also be great as well because for some reason, in spite of the game's BS character strengths, the worst match up is like a 7-3.

[@UltraChenTV]

Super Turbo is preeeeeetty unbalanced, actually. At the highest levels, many characters are basically useless (Cammy, Blanka unless Komoda, etc.).

[@prodigy10690]

I want to see SF2 rainbow edition at EVO or major tournament. I want to see the top players cook with the most busted version of a 30 year old game 😂😂

[@TheManCaveYTChannel]

TMNT x Justice League Turbo

[@destinationskyline07]

I like AI art James.

[@UltraChenTV]

You shouldn’t. AI art is soulless. Don’t support it.

[@SlaserX]

Xmvsf for sure

[@ForestTekkenVideos]

Sorry just another thought I had about the FGC: people were so different in a good way (nicer) in the sf4 days. I remember back in the arcade days, I'd want to just sit down to play marvel 2, and people were literally like "You think you can beat me? you FUCK! $200 moneymatch." Basically I think because of how complicated and dedicated people need to be, the FGC has, or HAD, a culture of trying really really hard. Like there is room for casual people, but they often got laughed out of the room, or in the cases I'm thinking of way back, out of the arcades. Maybe a future topic can be elitism in the FGC. Big fan 👍

[@wearegeeks]

Kof 2002 og or um

[@Not_cee]

Bleach blade of fate justin wong likes it amd ill beat him at it

[@XNSever]

There is a 0% chance that MvC2 will NOT the retro game for Evo 2025

[@TonyTheTGR]

But hear me out: MARVEL SUPER HEROES Perfectly balanced as all games should be

[@UltraChenTV]

I don’t agree. I think there’s a .000000001% chance. Come on. SHEESH.

[@MYB2424]

Soulcalibur 2 Tekken 3

[@rugalthreesixteen6812]

Kof 98