What Romans Really Tells Us About the Cross and How it Saves

[@savedbygrace745]

Hi, I have listened to your videos for 2 yrs. Thank you. I was DEVOUT mormon and so very very blinded to the cross and what it means. 3 yrs. ago I denounced 35 yrs of false gospel and gave my life to Jesus Christ, removed my temple garments and put on a small cross necklace that has never comes off. Praise God for salvation and opening my eyes to the truth. Thank you for all the teaching that I need so desperately.

[@mspolicecall]

Same! My conversion to Christianity happened while my shelf was falling. I wasn't ready to ask God if tscc was true. while asking God to take all my sin, nearly audibly, I received the message,"You wont find me in a church".

[@sacredcowtipper1378]

Praise God. I love hearing people coming out of the false. I personally came out of Roman Catholicism/agnosticism.

[@IBenZik]

@@sacredcowtipper1378 So true, only a born again RC can explain the lies in the RCC.

[@sacredcowtipper1378]

@@IBenZik I have so many relatives still holding onto it. Most don't go to church anymore. A large amount of modern Catholics don't even now what a sacrament is or that is a part of salvation by works and just go through the motions. All we can do is try to reach them. that isn't the Pope's triple crown (tiara) in your picture is it?

[@sacredcowtipper1378]

@@IBenZik BUZ, do you need salvation explained? I see that catholic picture as your icon.

[@Ant794]

One of the best Christian channels I’ve found yet, he takes it straight from scripture and doesn’t try to stretch anything

[@regener8td449]

I was raised in a cult. Read through the book of romans with an open mind to just read it for what it said and it blew the doors off of my prison cell! I can justified freely by His grace apart from works of the law? So the guilt that I was carrying rolled from my back and I was born again to live for Him, loving Him because He first loved me... On the cross! Praise God for Jesus and thank God for you Mike. God bless!

[@onlyoldnavy]

Justin Mitchell What cult?

[@regener8td449]

@@onlyoldnavy oneness pentecostal ism. Trying to be "holy" enough and wear the right clothes and hopefully you will please God. Some of them may not be as bad but mine was definitely a cult.

[@jamesb6818]

Justin Mitchell praise God... the peace of Christ is amazing...

[@philiplewandowski2469]

Praise the lord for leading you to the truth and His grace! Prayers to you and your family/friends!

[@peterwelch4665]

You're just in a different cult now

[@EofBrokenSilence]

I used to be lazy and just listen to pastors and teachers to understand scripture. But two years ago I started reading scripture on my own, asking for wisdom and understanding each day before I starting reading. And you are right, without having someone's preconceived understanding imbedded in my mind and by guidance of the Holy Spirit, His word is so easy to understand. I'm on my third time through the new testament and do not understand how these ideas come about unless people are trying to take scripture out of context to justify their beliefs or actions. Scripture confirms scripture. God bless

[@twiceborn_by_grace]

I couldn’t sleep one night awhile back, so I decided to listen to one of your videos on the app. I thought if I just listened and didn’t watch, I wouldn’t pay attention as closely. But I was wrong. As I listened, I felt myself waking up even more. It was a sleepless, but awesome night for me.

[@grizzled_yinzer]

Thank you so much for the work that you do Pastor Winger. It means a lot that you earnestly bring the truth of Christ to those who diligently seek Him. May the Lord bless you and keep you. May the Lord's face shine upon you and give you peace.

[@soneejohn3703]

It's so funny we tend to want God to "let us off the hook" for our sins but will always want him the punish the evil in the world. You can't have it both ways folks 🙂

[@djebellawz]

Re 19:2 For true and righteous are his judgments: for he has judged the great whore, which did corrupt the earth with her fornication, and has avenged the blood of his servants at her hand. Re 16:6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and you have given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. Rejoice over her, you heaven, and you holy apostles and prophets; for God has avenged you on her. REV 18:20 2Th 1:6 Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you;

[@JFT5523]

For the saved, it is our moral compass, the connection we share through the Holy Spirit with God that allows us to recognize our sins. That recognition brings with it guilt, that feeling when we know we are not glorifying God. It is the teachings of Christ that provide us with this "moral compass". It is our sinful nature that desires to judge and punish each other. However, it is the same sinful nature that desires to be unaccountable for our own sins to God. Salvation does not remove sin. Repentance and acceptance does change the heart in recognition, but not in deed. No one seeks good, but telling ourselves that we do makes us temporarily feel better about ourselves.

[@lindajohnson4204]

But God is going to punish the evil in the world. Each person who rejects God's grace toward them, in Jesus bearing their sin, will be punished for their own sins. Even Jesus bearing our siin on the coss instead of just shrugging sins off, is God seeung to it that justice gets done, although it is our sin He bore, not His own.

[@soneejohn3703]

Linda Johnson that is true. I’m more talking about when we want God punish people that have wronged us.

[@lindajohnson4204]

@@soneejohn3703 That's true! We want God, in His righteousness, to smite our enemies, and we fail to recognize that we are offenders against the same righteousness. That has to be part of what Jesus meant when He said that we have to forgive our enemies. The more we reaize that we're offenders who have received of His grace, the more we will be willing that others receive of His grace, too. Thanks for replying, Soneé John.

[@jennasink8743]

Thank you for this study, Mike. I have always believed in penal substitution without knowing the term for it, but I got into a couple of videos recently that were really tearing it to shreds, and not having previous knowledge about theories of atonement, I found them really destabilizing. I knew what they were saying didn’t sound right, but I didn’t know how to refute what I was hearing. I didn’t realize until I started listening to this series that the videos I watched barely used Scripture, and when they did, they didn’t use it in context. To use an analogy, I feel like I got a bad case of spiritual food poisoning, and your videos are helping to settle me again. So thank you, thank you, thank you.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Were any of the videos by Warren McGrew?

[@Ironsharpensiron89]

Thank you so much for putting this series out, my small group and I are going through Romans chapter by chapter and I have been watching your sermons on each chapter beforehand. We are on chapter 3 and I started on your Roman’s 3 sermon and you mentioned this playlist and one of the couples that go (especially the husband) reject penal substitution, and I unfortunately wasn’t ready to articulate a good argument against it. I knew/know he is wrong but I didn’t know how to have a good discussion about it. So this series and your chapter by chapter sermon have and will make for some great tools. Thank you for listening to God when he causes you to do a topic.

[@shizlegizmgar]

Bless you brother! Thank you for your labor in the lord to deliver sound teachings. You’re excitement about the word has led me to enjoy how truly exciting God’s word is. You’ve helped me to learn to think biblically

[@s.hylton6884]

Amen about praying for wisdom concerning the direction that THE LORD would want you to take the ministry/channel. I'm in agreement with that and just blessed to hear you ask for it. I'd love to hear more ministers make it about what the Lord wants and not what will make them famous. I'm an "up and coming" writer of sorts, and the Lord has been dealing with me on this issue. He keeps cautioning me to make sure I don't produce content for my glory, but to seek His heart and write for His glory alone. I've been watching your videos for a month or more and am constantly impressed by your knowledge and very blessed by your obvious heart for God. Keep up the good and honest work, brother! God bless! 🙏💙

[@justkenzie]

Mike... SO SO much appreciation for what you're doing and how God is using you! It's not often I come across a teaching that comes together with such a similar kind of message as to my pastor's. We're a tiny 'fellowship' because most who come to check it out are hoping for a more "seeker sensitive" place to have their emotions cranked up lol.

[@fnjesusfreak]

Such is the nature of the beast, though... people go where they hear what's comfortable, and not what's real.

[@PaulSHelms]

Romans 6:23 “For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.” ‭‭🤷🏼‍♂️

[@JonathanGrandt]

Paul Helms Yeah?

[@onlyoldnavy]

Paul Helms What version are you quoting from?

[@jayg3857]

Psalms 49:7 & 8 No man can possibly redeem his brother or pay his ransom to God. For the redemption of his soul is costly, and never can payment suffice,

[@colton7373]

MrJlsiii amen to that, trusting in anything other than Christ’s finished work (death, burial, and resurrection to take away our sins) is blasphemous and an insult to God. Praise His holy name that no one can add to the finished work of Jesus Christ.

[@lesliebee8918]

"I think in our current generation, that many of the audience will be really resistant to the idea that God righteously punishes sinners. Like just that very idea is going to sort of really bother them ... this is part of the moral degradation of our culture We think we're thinking MORALLY but we're really just thinking SELF-RIGHTEOUSLY." // This from Pastor Mike was a good thought provoking quote (starting at 15:55 minute mark) . It reminded me of when the men of Sodom came to Lot's door in Genesis 19:9 saying “Stand back! This one came in to stay here, and he keeps acting as a judge; now we will deal worse with you than with them.” Like us, Lot lived in a very immoral culture, and we see that too, especially now where right and wrong are so often confused.

[@hallboy5]

For the Q&A, I'd love to see skeptics ask questions, because often the questions they ask rattle around in Christian's brains too from time to time!

[@colton7373]

“If people would study, with no commentaries, and just read the book of Romans, and really try to follow the flow of thought, you would never get caught up in a cult...” so true!!! I love this comment you made.

[@riapresley5446]

wow!!! I finally " get"... receive ...so much on sooo many things in all your presentations...and so many things that might be little ...or insignificant points to others. You have the ability to make it "all" so clear ..understandable. PERFECT ..for me because i have been so debilitated by having to start completely over in all things ' bible'... 'God'... 'Jesus'... and particularly this here main event. I finally understand why ( born into and raised jehovahs witness...then married into and 15 yrs mormonism) I research and listen to many teachers... You are very easy to listen to...one teaching from you is so enriching...i can easily listen to one of your topics over...several times. I so appreciate everything about how you present. when you teach...you say so much and do not run in circles..nor avoid or have a lot of distractions. I really appreciate your quiet .. subtile..enthusiasm ...joy...genuiness...respect boldness

[@trebmaster]

28:35 - really agreed with this sentiment about just reading through Romans and getting the flow of the book. Not just cults, but entire theologies have been created from cherrypicking or soundbite-reading rather than paying attention to the flow of thoughts. I'm going to get pushback for saying this, but it's the most obvious thing in the world to me that the Calvinist interpretation of Romans 8 to mean individualized predestination rather than "God's people as a whole" predestination is achieved only by ignoring the flow of the book from the first 7 chapters. The Holy Spirit doesn't spend 7 chapters primarily arguing about God adding in the Gentile people (which is a group) to then saying from left field "oh, by the way, none of you Christians have had free will" and then continue talking about God's choice to include Gentiles among His people. Looking at passages in a vacuum can support statements like that, but not holistic readings of a whole book, start to finish. Not ever, and yes, I've studied arguments, objections, and counterobjections between Calvinists and non for close to 10 years, so I'm not interested in responding to things I've already heard before. Romans 8 needs to stay in the flow of the book, and an inserted individualist view will disrupt the flow.

[@timkennonjr.2079]

I can’t thank you enough for this series!!!

[@daviddufty9759]

Hey Mike, You commented that if we have objections to put them in the comments and you may address them in a future video. This is an objection which is quite important to me. Initially I wanted to ask the question in the Live Feed because I thought you would be more likely to answer it if I asked it live. But to get it down to 200 characters I had to be very brief. I had written: “Q: One of the struggles I have with PSA is its concept of God’s justice vs how God’s justice is portrayed in Prov 17:15, Exod 23:7, Deut 24:16, etc. How should we understand these & similar passages?” I don’t like the question in this form, as it feels like a trick question - the kind of thing the Scribes and Pharisees would ask Jesus to try and trick Him. As such, I’m putting this question in the comments so that you have time to consider it and provide a fruitful response for building up the body - and hopefully also to hear my heart. There are several passages throughout the bible where God states that He abhors the innocent being condemned and the wicked being justified. In Penal Substitution, Jesus - though innocent - is condemned and punished for sins He did not commit. We are justified - though guilty - in part because the crime has been punished. As an analogy - if I steal a cookie from the cookie jar and my sister is punished for what I did, no one sees this as an example of justice being done; it is a miscarriage of justice unless the guilty party receives the punishment. It doesn't seem to resolve if I say that I wronged my dad by stealing the cookie and my dad takes the punishment for me - justice has not been served because an innocent party is punished and the guilty party is not dealt with. I realize this can be said to be the ‘legal fiction’ argument, but it seems inconsistent with what God has revealed of the nature of His justice in scripture: "Keep yourself far from a false matter; *do* *not* *kill* *the* *innocent* *and* *righteous* . *For* *I* *will* *not* *justify* *the* *wicked* . (Exo 23:7 NKJ) "Fathers shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall the children be put to death for their fathers; a person shall be put to death for his own sin. (Deu 24:16 NKJ) `Cursed is the one who takes a bribe to slay an innocent person.' And all the people shall say, `Amen!' (Deu 27:25 NKJ) They gather together against the life of the righteous, And *condemn* *innocent* *blood* . *But* *the* *LORD* *has* *been* *my* *defense* , And my God the rock of my refuge. He has brought on them their own iniquity, And *shall* *cut* *them* *off* *in* *their* *own* *wickedness* ; The LORD our God shall cut them off. (Psa 94:21-23 NKJ) *He* *who* *justifies* *the* *wicked* , *and* *he* *who* *condemns* *the* *just* , *Both* *of* *them* *alike* *are* *an* *abomination* *to* *the* *LORD* . (Pro 17:15 NKJ) Woe to those who call evil good, and good evil; Who put darkness for light, and light for darkness; Who put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter! (Isa 5:20) "Yet you say, `Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?' Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live. " *The* *soul* *who* *sins* *shall* *die* . *The* *son* *shall* *not* *bear* *the* *guilt* *of* *the* *father* , *nor* *the* *father* *bear* *the* *guilt* *of* *the* *son* . *The* *righteousness* *of* *the* *righteous* *shall* *be* *upon* *himself* , *and* *the* *wickedness* *of* *the* *wicked* *shall* *be* *upon* *himself* . "The soul who sins shall die. The son shall not bear the guilt of the father, nor the father bear the guilt of the son. The righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself. (Eze 18:19-20 NKJ) "In those days they shall say no more: `The fathers have eaten sour grapes, And the children's teeth are set on edge.' "But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man who eats the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge. (Jer 31:29-30 NKJ) You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you. (Jam 5:6 NKJ) If you could respond to this objection, I would appreciate it (please take the scriptural references seriously and not merely respond as a philosophical objection - though I realize it is that too). God bless, I appreciate you doing this :-)

[@93556108]

Your teachings are truly edifying and I must say I am a keen follower of your videos. Thank you.

[@jimamberg9467]

Really good stuff, Mike! To be honest I don't run into this debate much in my day to day but even just as a study, it is good to go through the scripture like this. Also (like yous said) this controversy may reach my neck of the woods at some point and it won't catch me by surprise now. Thank you for making this video!

[@bobbyadkins6983]

I didn't know there was anyone who called themselves a Christian that rejected it and refuted it until yesterday when I saw a video by Warren McGrew debunking Mike on this issue. It was very disturbing to say the least.

[@lukegaier9490]

Have you done, or will you do, a video on Annihilationism vs. Eternal Torment?

[@4womanonly319]

1 John 13:7 )Little children, let no man deceive you: he that DOETH righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

[@AnHebrewChild]

4woman only YES. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him. If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. - Jesus It was the Roman Church which first taught otherwise: a fact which lies in plain sight.

[@bradley4211]

Such a beautiful passage of scripture you read from Romans bro, good stuff man God is too good

[@tleigh4008]

Hi Pastor Mike! Could you address how to do a fast in regard to prayer? Also, I want to thank you for the loving and kind way you teach and share the gospel while still remaining steadfast to the WORD! 24 The LORD bless thee, and keep thee: 25 The LORD make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee: 26 The LORD lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace. Numbers 6:24-26

[@mishaanton5436]

t leigh ... amen and shalom 🕊

[@soneejohn3703]

This is absolutely beautiful Pastor Mike 🙂. God is the righteous judge. It's the same if a human judge lets a person go free that is guilty of murder. The person who is guilty might view the judge as merciful but that judge isn't being merciful or righteous to the family of the victim. God doesn't "let us off the hook" because he is merciful, the reason we receive mercy is because of the finished work of Jesus on the cross.

[@emf49]

Mike, you have such an open cheerful face that I feel uplifted before you even begin the teaching!! 😊 God not only uses your excellent mind, but your entire countenance!! 👍

[@joshuaparoubek3640]

17 minutes in .. "according to my Gospel" comment. THANK YOU MIKE. heavy truth.

[@raymott6933]

Thanks Pastor Mike. Listening to you will make me a better preacher of God’s word.

[@jasonlochary9656]

Romans 3 is pretty powerful. Paul gets right to the point. I love how you broke it down.

[@jeffreyneis4604]

Thank you, Mike. Excellent teaching. If you haven’t already decided on next week’s topic, consider - Why do some churches avoid whole sections, or topics, in the Bible? I know people whose churches avoid “End Times”, “Gifts of the Spirit”, “How the Old Testament is still important for us to learn about”, and so on. Your talk about The Cross, reveals that the “wrath” of God is not only in the Word, but needs to be understood by those of us who follow Jesus. 🙂 Again, Thanks

[@Lam321ThisIRecall]

That was awesome ! Thanks so much Mike ! Hearing such a powerful presentation of the gospel was convicting and compelling ! I hope to listen to the other presentation about the Mercy Seat. Here's another powerful verse that came to mind during the presentation, that I have studied recently: [Heb 2:9 NKJV] 9 "But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels, for the suffering of death crowned with glory and honor, that He, by the grace of God, might taste death for everyone."

[@conferenceroom910]

I am here for the first time, and i absolutely love your teachings. I got to know you through David Wood during the apologetic conference introduction of apologetic session. GBY

[@ryanquin2290]

This was amazing Mike. Thank you so much for your thorough and diligent work in defending the faith of the gospel, and, in this case, the specific doctrine of atonement and penal substitution, which, with a full and correct understanding of it, is such a glorious light that magnifies the righteousness and grace of our God and Savior, and increases even more our knowledge of Him. God bless you for your work and faithfulness!

[@McMahonSplainer]

This is a truly great video, don't have the words to describe how good it is!!!

[@DeplorableNeanderthal]

This is the most certainty I've seen Mike deliver a concept with. Rightly so. And how about predicting that someone would end up looking this series up, years later, after seeing this argument arise. Three years later and I'm here because of a Twitter feud. I didn't know there were "serious" Christians who denied this.

[@AhFahted]

There are unique claims made by PSA adherents that many Christians denounce as unbiblical, and for good reason. Go listen to some of the quotes made by those who hold strongly to PSA (RC Sproul, John MacArthur, and many others). If you’re not shocked by what PSA actually teaches about the death of Jesus and the pleasure that the Father took in punishing Him, I’d be very surprised. There is certainly truth to be found in PSA but there is also quite a bit that is far from what scripture actually teaches. Nowhere in scripture do we find that God poured his wrath out on Jesus, or that the Son was separated from the Father at any time. God has always freely forgiven those who are repentant without requiring some kind of payment first. Punishing the innocent in place of the guilty is expressly forbidden in scripture (Ezekiel 18:19-24). I agree with Mike about most of what he teaches but, about this, he is in error. Glory be to God.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

@@AhFahted //Nowhere in scripture do we find that God poured his wrath out on Jesus// Yes we do. Matt. 26:39. Many others allude to it as well. Expiation is defined as the removal of sin or guilt. Propitiation, on the other hand, has to do with the appeasement of God’s anger. Several verses state that Jesus is the propitiation for our sin. You are in error.

[@AhFahted]

@@RoyceVanBlaricome How does Matthew 26:39 point to the wrath of God being poured out on Jesus?

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

@@AhFahted - Time & space doesn't allow for a detailed, thorough answer and I'm reluctant to do so because most of the time folks ask a question like that they've showed they really had no intention of listening to or consider the answer. I don't know if you're intentions are sincere or not so I"ll just say that you should do a study on the verse and in particular what was Jesus talking about when He said "cup".

[@AhFahted]

@@RoyceVanBlaricome It’s an honest question and my intention is sincere. I don’t need an exhaustive reply, I’m quite happy with a sentence or two. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I will make the assumption that you hold to the belief that contained within the cup of suffering is the wrath of the Father. If this is your belief, I contend that this is just an interpretation and not one that is held by everyone. Again, I’m just searching for the truth and my question is sincere.

[@GannVA]

I needed this today! Thanks so much!

[@williammcguire5685]

You know Mike you know a whole lot more than I do about the Bible Way more. You have a great work to do and you're doing it. I think everybody makes this way too complicated either believe Jesus died for you on that cross to pay for your sins or you don't. I'm amazed at the different angles people have. Seems like you can sin, and believe, with no judgment in the end. It's a win-win feel good.

[@SusanMorales]

Thanks for answering my question! I never thought about it like that.. sin as an act of not loving God. A skeptical q&a would be interesting and educational for us to know how to respond to those questions as well. It’s nice to be able to have heard about skeptics’ arguments and a biblical response for it from a pastor. That information in your videos is very helpful!

[@nvdxn]

What really helped e understand sin was finding that the NT clearly defines for us what sin is, and that defintion is confirmed by three NT authors (three witnesses) and the OT; 1Jn 3:4 "Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law."Rom 7:7 "What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, "YOU SHALL NOT COVET." Jas 2:9 "but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors." Dan 9:4-5 And I prayed to the LORD my God, and made confession, and said, "O Lord, great and awesome God, who keeps His covenant and mercy with those who love Him, and with those who keep His commandments, we have sinned and committed iniquity, we have done wickedly and rebelled, even by departing from Your precepts and Your judgments."

[@elizabethryan2217]

@@skippy675, with respect, I think you're missing the point. 🙏 You say that loving God is about accepting the framework. I'd say loving God is about loving God. Yes, there are ts&cs within which that works, but love is showing love: acting in deference, respect, honour and consideration. Secondly, you say that in the OT, sin landed on the sinner. To an extent it did, but only when the sinner wasn't acknowledging God. God *specifically* made a way for the sin of humans to fall on sacrificial animals - namely firstborn, flawless, properly prepared lambs. Thirdly, this was *exactly* in line with the crucifixion of Jesus. The crucifixion was actually a fulfillment of what was done *in faith* with the sacrificing of lambs. The sacrificing of lambs was in place as an act of faith for, and a represention of, the future crucifixion of Jesus, who was and is, ultimately, the Lamb of God.

[@elizabethryan2217]

Hi@@skippy675 🙂 I can certainly acknowledge that I don't understand God's reasons/logic for many things, or spiritual requirements for certain truths or difficulties in the Universe - neither do I expect to - because if I or any other human could, God would not be terribly profound. However, I do believe that historical explanations have been written re: the spiritual obligations/requirements presented by the effects and consequences of sin. I can't remember them off the top of my head. But you're perfectly right: I don't necessarily understand them and I certainly wouldn't have come up with them: I'm not God 🤷‍♀️ But inasmuch as I understand of him, his message and the story of Christianity, I trust the solution he presents. Accept and trust in Christ's attoning sacrifice. Turn from sin, and yolk yourself to God. It seems we may not agree. That's ok, in as far as it is both of our own responsibility as to what our eternal future holds. Take care and stay safe.

[@kidkratoski3778]

Awesome podcast brother Mike, keep up the good work..wishy washy weak as well water theology needs to be challenged by truth.

[@sovereigngodlisaloves9525]

This might be one of the best ever. Very blessed 🙌, and pausing often to take notes!

[@mrstaleycl]

This is fantastic exposition of Romans 3 and a strong defense of PSA. even when I disagree with your conclusions, I really appreciate and still learn from the way you share your thought process/ how you get to your conclusions exegetically. In this video I agreed with your conclusion as well as enjoyed hearing your exegetical process. I have question regarding Romans...I listened to your teaching on Romans 9. You discussed how that passage is NOT talking about how salvation is being worked out between Jews and gentiles in history. Can you explain how you get to your position- namely Romans 9-11 is not discussing how God is saving people in the present age? I understand your position that he is discussing people groups, etc. But I don’t recall you showing exegetically how Paul changes gears away from salvation in the text. it seems to me that Paul is explaining how Gods plan of salvation is now being worked out by first saving gentiles en mass, to the temporary exclusion of Jews en mass. While this causes Paul anguish to see his brothers cut off from Christ (salvation?) , he believes God will cause a large scale repentance of Jewish people in the future (Romans 11). I am a Calvinist so there may be some Mental blocks and I might be applying some Unilateral criticism of your position. That said I don’t understand how you come to the conclusion that Paul is stepping away from salvation on that section (ch 9-11) of romans.

[@servantofmessiah1071]

Thank you, Mike, for this video. Great topic. So important.

[@lightlover33]

The primary issue is what constitutes "penal." It is the question of whether "penal" goes beyond the curse of the sins of the world laid upon Jesus. It is a question of whether the suffering is "wrath" in the sense of God pouring out anger beyond the implications of the full curse of sin laid upon Him. The entire first chapter of Romans establishes the premise from which Paul addresses the issue of wrath. GOD GAVE THEM OVER TO THE DESIRES OF THEIR HEARTS. Attempting to isolate "due penalty" as a single phrase in contrast to Paul's other statements would be a misrepresentation. This first chapter is the filter through which "inflict wrath" in Chapter 3 is to be considered.

[@alejandrotrujillo6110]

Hi Mike Winger, I’m newly founds Christian and I’ve been in a church for about 10 months now and they are the International Christian Church(ICC). I’ve learned a lot from this church but I’ve also learned how much they focus on their leadership will help guide us to going to heaven. I know that through Jesus’ sacrifice I will be able to go to heaven in believe that he was the Lamb of the lord and through seeking his kingdom and his righteousness daily. But what is you view of the ICC and how they deal with the church?

[@shelvinsglaslough]

Alejandro, I did a little reading on the Portland ICC website(first thorough one I found) and while they sound mostly biblical, there are a number of things that are red flags, including legalistic attendance at meetings and an elevation of Central leadership and a very specific way that faith is to be lived. I would strongly recommend you keep watching Mike's teaching, and check out a few other biblical churches. That will take some research on your part-but key is Bible based teaching that encourages you to check the Word yourself, and a leadership that recognizes that other churches (denominations) are also part of the body of Christ. I am personally Baptist by association. There are lots of solid denominations/associations that are biblical in their theology(for many of us, our differences are actually very small)

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Atonement: Someone explained it like this -- At-one-ment. We are reconciled to God being at one with Him.

[@WalksTalksThoughts]

And John 3 points to this by Jesus explaining the life from above. Atonement is Jesus himself not just something he did. It includes forgiveness of sins and his death and resurrection etc but it's not just his death on the cross. It's his whole life.

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

At the 16min mark Mike makes a really good point! He makes a very astute observation when he says the efforts to dismiss PSA is part of the moral degradation of Society. One thinks they are thinking morally when in fact it's only self-righteousness and putting themselves above God believing they can sit in judgment over God and telling Him what's right or wrong. It's also Idolatry.

[@zachhall5061]

Hey! I seen a video by Hal Chaffee recently talking about the Governmental Theory of the Atonement. Seems to make more sense to me than Penal Substitution. Curious if you had any thoughts on it! Thank you for the work you are doing for the Lord.

[@freakylocz14]

I hold to the satisfaction theory of atonement, but opponents of penal substitution do often sensationalise it.

[@shellymessina6733]

Thank you for bringing clarity...thank you times 100000000000000!!!

[@TheEichie]

thank you for blessing me, I've turned my husband and friends onto your site as well. we love what you doooooooooooooooo!!

[@waynehampson9569]

For people who reject penal substitution how do they deal with Mark 10:45 For even the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give his life as a ransom for many.”// A ransom for what and to whom?

[@zachbedwell2016]

Mike, can you do a video on evangelism. I am finding that a lot of Christians believe that evangelism is a spiritual gift and not something that is commanded to all Christians. And when I confront them with it being a command, they then say that acts of service can be considered a form of evangelism. While I believe acts of service can lead to evangelism and it should, evangelism by its very definition, both biblically and secularly involves the preaching or proclaiming of the Gospel using words. I think so many Christians believe that if they do good works, people will see that and want to know about their faith because their works are so good. While that can happen, the likelihood of it happening is quite low.

[@ikemeitz5287]

I know I'm years late, but I'd be really interested to hear what you make of the word "excuse" in Romans 2:15.

[@barbaracimini1447]

This is a very important reminder for me!

[@myrajackson-rain5483]

My brothers and sisters, some people come here to attack and deceive, to try to draw us away from our precious Lord and Savior, or to offend us into engaging them in defending Him with our righteous indignation and anger at their attack. Please, my beloveds, do not engage them. Jesus knows all our hearts. If we attack and slander or name-call or get all uppity and self-righteous, we are not serving our Lord, pleasing God nor supporting Pastor Mike. If it cannot be said in love and true humility, please pray before commenting and let Jesus guide your words... much love from Arizona...

[@Brandaniron]

I never thought I would see the day when the professing church would question and redefine what took place on the cross. What was the “cup” that Jesus prayed to let pass from Him in the garden of Gesthemane? Was it not the cup of God’s wrath that He was about to drink? “Awake, awake, stand up, O Jerusalem, which hast drunk at the hand of the LORD the cup of his fury; thou hast drunken the dregs of the cup of trembling, and wrung them out.” Isaiah 51:17 In John 3:36 He that believes on the Son hath everlasting life, and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life but the wrath of God abideth on him. Why is the wrath of God abiding on unbelievers ? Because they do not believe what took place on the cross. i.e. that Jesus was their substitute to take that wrath away… It’s sad that we are even questioning this.

[@jackjones3657]

On an elementary level I think it could be said God disciplines those He loves so as to impress upon us the significance of our fallen state and the harm sin inflicts upon us and others. To not punish us would be unloving, like not trying to create a stopgap to the consequences of our sin.

[@degierguitarsbasses]

I struggle to understand how payment and forgiveness can go together. If a dept is paid, there’s nothing left to forgive. If it is forgiven, there’s nothing left to pay off. How can both of these be true at the same time? This question has been hurting me for years.

[@MikeWinger]

Stick around and I will address this in a future video in this series. For now I’m just establishing the Biblical teaching and then I’ll cover objections.

[@bobbyadkins6983]

Jesus paid for our sins on the cross so that we could be forgiven.

[@shellymessina6733]

This has been very important for me to listen to

[@erikamoreno8720]

I am so grateful you are walking in the ministry God gave you. You have taught me so much and I love listening to you! I have a question. The “prosperity gospel”, in your opinion, would you say those who follow this gospel and are all in are believing a totally different gospel and are lost? I know so many who believe this “gospel” and it’s been a big question that I have. Thank you!

[@SusanMorales]

Erika Viquelia I was listening to prosperity gospel teachers for some time but I knew the gospel still. When I started hearing real Bible teaching I understood the gospel better. :)

[@xaindsleena8090]

Hi Mike, regarding your upcoming Q&A session on 4 Dec, can we submit questions in advance or are you going to take and answer them live?

[@markkenney5802]

Skeptics. By the way, I love your stuff! Thanks!

[@DestDest84]

Romans 6 King James Version (KJV) 6 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? 2 God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? 3 Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? 4 Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. 5 For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: 6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. 7 For he that is dead is freed from sin. 8 Now if we be dead with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with him: 9 Knowing that Christ being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him. 10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto God. 11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto God through Jesus Christ our Lord. 12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof. 13 Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin: but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God. 14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. 15 What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid. 16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?

[@DarkArtDave]

How do you approach studying Revelations or would you recommend someone else's teaching on it. I find the book hard to understand in some parts. I want to dig in. Cheers God bless you mike

[@brich2542]

John MacArthur has an amazing series on Revelation

[@StraitGateApologetics]

1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 ESV 9 For God has not destined us for jwrath, but kto obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, 10 lwho died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.

[@craigbennett8053]

Do a Q&A on how to overcome sin

[@GodChessBible]

Can you explain what you disagreed with in American Gospel: Christ Crucified? You said you disagreed with some parts of it. Thanks, Jim

[@MikeWinger]

Just the particular parts which taught limited atonement and total inability. That’s what comes to mind off the top of my head. I am in substantial agreement with it though.

[@Hoodilydaddle]

Very related to this and q n a on the book / movie "The Shack and more importantly the book that followed (thankfully) Lies We Belive about God? I feel like P Young has done so much damage with this and few addressed it to the point required.

[@secretvandergalien7629]

Can you please review N.T. Wright’s book “The Day The Revolution Began” on this subject? He makes a lot of good points but he is also pretty confusing in it. I’m not sure if he totally affirms Jesus bearing our punishment.

[@shellymessina6733]

I listened to Malcolm Smith alot...He influenced William Paul Young and there is alot of good in his speaking about the unconditional love of God. His ministry is Unconditional Love...however..i attended his school ...where he started teaching the very things you speak of...and it felt "not right" and it was confusing...saying the cross is different and there is no hell or second coming . When I was at the school and asked a question using scripture...he said he didnt know...but there was a great deal of uncomfortableness and questions were not welcome the next section of the school. after understanding more of the beliefs in his theology..even though it is all very mushed up and vague and confusing ..I came away hearing him say even that satan would be just put out by God's love..just poofed away.,..he claims he isnt a universalist on one side..but then confuses everything about the cross and it's meaning..just like what you are talking of..he has "special insight to what scripture really means..is often the kind of talk and if questioned ..the saying is that ...the scripture doesnt really mean that...i really was in the weeds for awhile ... i dont think he would ever discuss it with you , though he says he is open to zoom calls. im grateful for your talking about this. i have felt alone trying to make sense. i also am grateful that you elevate scripture back to it's place and our repsonsability to know it. No dishonor to that teachers I really loved..but the teaching kinda grieves me..saddens me...

[@rebeccap4611]

I'm confused. In another video, you said that when salvation occurs, our sin has been forgiven. Past and future. Now it seems you're saying that's not the case. Which is it?

[@WalksTalksThoughts]

John 3:16 isn't about forgiveness of sins. Within the context of John chapter 3, it is about life from above.

[@lauratevelde7295]

Excellent teaching! Thank you!!💖👍

[@NessaNZ]

Found out the pastor of the church we go to, listens to Zhnd. And he agrees with the way Zhnd interprets the Bible...sigh How do you spell your cat's name?

[@emilesturt3377]

39:00: ... "it's as if He were sin".... Well, it's also "as if He were receiving wrath from God" too. Predetermined by God, He, as God, died our death via us and the demons killing Him (thus demonstrating / revealing His righteousness - holiness / order). He exhausted all darkness within Himself and dispelled it by His Light X And was raised for our justification.

[@NessaNZ]

Paul talked about Jesus dying for him (indicates a personal individual experience I think) Galatians 2:20

[@ryanquin2290]

This is going in my Favorites folder.

[@lovelychaos6409]

@Mike Winger - you cannot say that you believe in once saved always saved if you think that future sin is a sign that you were never saved cause we will never be rid of sin, so why do you think some sins are worse than others and that is a sign of not having salvation - sorry this hurts me so bad as someone who fights daily with trying to stay sober and I mess up from time to time but I love the Lord so so much and I know he is my Saviour and I will be in Heaven despite my battle with drugs... I am just as saved as you!

[@karricompton]

Lovely Chaos yes you are and God bless you. My son was a Christian since he was 7 and later was a heroin addict for 2 1/2 years. He has been clean for 3 years now, but it was a hard road and he still deals with consequences from those years. I’m rooting for you.

[@lovelychaos6409]

@@karricompton That is so wonderful that your son has 3 years! It is so very tough and I too am battling an opioid addiction, it was my fix it all to drown traumas from my past so it's a fight every day to keep my mind on sobriety but Jesus is really doing work on me and through Him i been staying clean so far, daily study of the Bible and time with the Lord is so very helpful plus I am in a recovery program :) - God bless you sister! Thank you for your kind and loving words of encouragement!

[@GARINGER]

Thank you for this. God bless.

[@truthseeker7005]

There are many narratives when it comes to biblical doctrine yet the one truth that no one can prove is if the Gospel is true at all.

[@christopherwalls4337]

No one can prove if the Gospel is true at all? What do you mean by that?

[@truthseeker7005]

@@christopherwalls4337 I don't doubt the narrative of the Bible because thats what it says but I'm saying is it reality?

[@nick7977]

I don’t know is it?

[@bobbyadkins6983]

We have people who always want to bring up what the "church fathers" believed. As though you can possibly find out what all of them believed. The church fathers I trust are the ones who were inspired by God to write the Bible.

[@deannaliles5976]

Great message

[@adamtippett4702]

I hope you feel better soon, Mike! I wanted to comment here on the word δικαιοσυνη and δικαιοω in Romans 3:26. The BDAG says that it means to be found in the right or to be free of charges. Of persons it means to be acquitted, or be pronounced and treated as righteous in the effect of receiving the divine gift of δικαιοσυνη through faith in Christ Jesus. The BDAG however, does point out that no clear distinction exists between the justifying action of acquittal and the gift of new life through the Holy Spirit as God's activity in promoting uprightness in believers which include Romans 3:26, 30, and 4:5. Sounds like PSA to me in my book too....just saying!

[@pauluskim2028]

Hi, have you checked out the channel "digital hammurabi"? Hes mainly attacking biblical prophecies. He also did a response vid on your Tyre Video. Would be cool if you two could do a debate at some point:) Thanks for all the videos youre making Mike, they help me a lot!

[@mishaanton5436]

Great presentation. Lots of actual Word used is necessary, praise God. A great amount of redefining in Christendom. Tearing away The Truth. The cross and the need for "it" cant be separated. Nor the substitution of Christ for Sin. Or the efficacy and need for the life (blood) ofsubstitu-tion. This is why we need to read the Old Testament. Stories of God and His nature (Glory, Holy, Faithful, Gracious, Loving, Patient, True, Holy ... Holy😊)expectations, and promises(prophsies, eschatology). There are threads if understanding only gained in Hebrew Scriptures. To apply to life as His child. We are the grafted in. Into Israel. (Jacob) The blinders as to the substitutionary sacrifice are not seen by Israel (as a whole). Yet. Many subjects being undermined today. Stand on the Word and do not waver from any of the shading and renaming. Hard as culture in US goes to heresy and PC now Intersectionality, and relevance (as defined by progressive ideas like social justice) is in many of the churches and because church leaders & body don't adhere to the Word, are caving to or being deceived by new ideas. Much of which will lead many off the narrow way to the narrow gate. Have to know whole Word and accept it ALL. Alpha to Omega. It seems quite popular in churches today and teachers to play with these ideas of intersectionality. To play with ideas by questioning if the Word quite had a lot of things right or not. Not cute or clever. Discernment is applying free gift of Wisdom. Very lacking. One reason Bible not being read w Holy Spirit. One also I believe is being educated. Who reads literature any more? The more closed ppl are imo, the more susceptible to a closed view and easily persuaded by errant ideas that take you captive. The basic foundation never changes. Thank 💜 you !! I will find and watc.more. Live is cool to know your there in the now, as I am homebound. Shalom🕊 Exodus 34:6

[@mlrich1]

Will someone please tell me which Bible mike teaches from? I would like to purchase the same bible and follow along.

[@crystalthomas1937]

I believe he is using the ESV

[@MrSeephas]

Have you heard of Covenant Atonement Theory? A pastor I know recently taught this and it set off a few warning bells in my head.

[@OckertvdW]

Id love to hear what you have to say to NT Wright's New Perspective on Paul and Covenantal Nomianism

[@techtiptricks]

Thanks

[@SaintJohntheSaint]

hey, i just watched this video and i think its great, thank you! i agree that we deserved death as sinners and that jesus paid the price and made us holy because i can see it in the bible. but what doesnt make sense to me is how can i be guilty if i was born in adam and destined to sin? i have been born under a curse of sin and never had a choice so how can i be made responsible for sinning? i still believe what the bible says and agree with it, love the gospel and am grateful that jesus paid for me but this is something i dont understand. i dont know if there even is an answer for this and am also ok with just trusting that god is good and did the right things but if there is an answer id like to know...

[@ancientflames]

Does Mike have anything on the end times? Specifically the different beliefs about the millennium?

[@sketchbook1]

Have you seen Idol Killer's video series on your PSA video series? I don't understand why he so vehemently denies PSA -- it seems that he sees it as a product of Calvinist theology, and so he rejects it. But I feel like several of these Post-Calvinist KZbin content creators seem to be throwing the PSA baby out with the Calvinistic bathwater. I am no Calvinist, but I see PSA (as well as Ransom and Christus Victor) all throughout the Scripture.

[@IdolKiller]

If you watched the series, you should know all the Biblical, Historical, Theological and Philosophical reasons why we oppose PSA. Did you watch the series?

[@sketchbook1]

​@@IdolKiller How does one actually answer such a question? What if I disagree Biblically, Historically, Theologically or Philosophically with several of your points AFTER having watched several of your videos? Why can't you just try to answer my assertion with one or two paragraphs, instead of demanding that I see a whole series of your videos? So please, all I would like to know is: How are you not throwing the proverbial penal and substitution baby out with the transactional limited atonement unconditional election monergistic calvinistic bathwater?!

[@sketchbook1]

All that one has to show from Scripture to keep at least a primitive form of PSA is that 1) there was some sort of wrath in God, 2) Jesus in some way took our place, 3) God punished Him in some way, and 4) Jesus' death was in some way propitiatory...

[@C3KNG]

Thank you for this

[@theunknownpreacher9833]

Have you seen the Glory of Jesus on the cross? Its right there. Jesus was given all power and authority on the cross. Why can't anybody see it? Has the devil so blinded us that all we see is the wrath of G-D and not the love displayed in a moment? The mercy, the grace. What was in the cup? It wasn't the wrath of G-D. The cup was filled with that which we drink so freely, without blinking or thinking twice. That cup of disobedience and sin. We have missed the message that the cross gives.

[@HectorMartinez-gy8kp]

Mike, you didn't go to red alert?

[@mrshmanckles1463]

There can be no remission of sin without the shedding of blood

[@ginaidoma4368]

MrShmanckles We believe the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross for the forgiveness of sins...not the remission of sins. The Gospel of the Kingdom teaches to believe in the name of Jesus and be baptized for the remission of sins for Israel. The Gospel of Grace teaches the death, burial, and resurrection for the forgiveness of all sins.

[@matthewsouthwell3500]

​@@ginaidoma4368The word "remission" and the word "forgiveness" are both translated from the same koine greek word in the New Testament (Strong's Greek 859, if you want to look it up). There is only one gospel, and all the apostles (including Paul) preached it. Peter said they believed they (ethnic Israelites) would be saved in the same manner as the Gentiles in Acts 15, which agrees with Paul's rebuke (of him) in Galatians 2. There are not two peoples of God, rather there is one people of God, one flock. One cornerstone, one spiritual house being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit. The seed of Abraham properly is Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:26-29 26For you are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[@BHIPHOP91]

Christ did die FOR YOU! (: I have a question though regarding Acts where Ananias and his wife dropped dead after 'lying to the Holy Spirit'. I understand God was saving the birth of His church from pride, I just want to know your thought concerning this!

[@FRN2013]

1:01:38 Hmm... Is that cross jewelry lovely or glittery? We must not lose sight of what the cross was. It was an instrument of torture and death. Yes, of course it was also the means of redemption, available for all humanity. But without the torture & death, there would be no redemption. The cross was not lovely or glittery. It was _ugly_ and brutal. I preach the cross every week to our church. This is the main reason why we do communion every week, because the Lord’s Supper reminds us of Jesus’ suffering, if it’s done right. If you choose not to observe that sacrament every week, that’s fine with me, but I think the cross should be preached every week in every church. Not just the benefits of the cross we obtain, but especially what it cost our Lord. For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. (1 Corinthians 1:18) And I, when I came to you, brothers, did not come proclaiming to you the testimony of God with lofty speech or wisdom. For I decided to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. (1 Corinthians 2:1, 2) That I may know him and the power of his resurrection, and may share his sufferings, becoming like him in his death, that by any means possible I may attain the resurrection from the dead. (Philippians 3:10-11)

[@RoyceVanBlaricome]

Anyone who doesn't think that God punishes people to appease his wrath has never read the OT or is blind to what it says. Just look at what God says to the prophets about His own Chosen People! He tells at least two of the prophets to not even pray for the People because He won't hear their prayers.