What’s Inside a Lithium Motorcycle Battery

[@ridemfast7625]

Im tempted to buy one for my bike. Costs 30% less than the Yuasa agm battery and has a two year warranty. The Yuasa has a 1 yr. The retailer is very good with returns and has a good reputation. After seeing whats inside, or not inside, gives me serious pause... Thanks for the vid!

[@shanewalker2257]

Please make music same volume as voice, its annoying loud.

[@Duby4life]

Thanks Shane! That’s something I’ve changed in recent videos. I appreciate the feedback!

[@vevenaneathna]

its lead acid you dont want to fully discharge because it damages the terminals since its literally powdered lead and lead oxide that has been shoved into fiberglass cut grids. if the battery is inside the car and if it is able to heat itself i think it will work just fine as long as you dont try to use some bms meant for another purpose. especially with active balancers now, you dont need to run a bms coz most car alitnators will only float lifepo4 at most at like 80-90% state of charge before their 4x diode bridge in the back of them blows up

[@BrainHurricanes]

You can use 8 32650 cells (4+4 in parrallel). I'm in the process of building a new one for a light 125cc motorcycle. My current battery is working for about 3 years now. Never needs recharging, disconnecting, maintaining. After winter starts right up and allways stays at about 50% SOC. I did add a powerdiode with a parrallel powerresistor, in series so the battery can cranc at full power, but can only charge at a few amps max. I'm going to test if that is even nessesary because if the charged voltage is almost the same as the bike's charging circuit voltage, there will only be a small charging current naturally.

[@Duby4life]

@BrainHurricanes it sounds like you’re in deeper than I am. I would love to see your build sometime, somehow!

[@broderp]

Some how I expected more inside given how much they charge for them.

[@Duby4life]

Exactly! And that was my main reason making this video. I wanted to see if you could buy cells and rebuild it yourself rather than having to buy another full-priced battery like this.

[@user-ev1we2mo9f]

I had a similar lithium battery, '4 cell' it performed well for 2 years. After not using the bike for a few months, the battery failed and is bloated. I suspect it was either 1) kick starting the bike with 14v read on the terminals, the flat cells couldn't handle it and a cell failed because it is not properly regulated to charge a battery from that state? or 2) i connected a 1.5a lead acid/ agm battery charger to it at some point to 'trickle charge' it but this may also be enough to have cause the damage to the battery? The bike is in question is only 200cc, I will get fairly inexpensive small agm battery that claims 85cca and see how that goes.

[@Duby4life]

If the charger was automatic (meaning it decreased in amperage as the battery became more fully charged) I would think 1.5A would be fine. Even though the charging patterns would differ somewhat, that shouldn’t be enough to overwhelm the battery. One way or another, it took too great a charge from the sounds of it.

[@user-ev1we2mo9f]

@@Duby4life so today I got a battery and the it has enough cranking amps 'SSB POWERSPORT VT4B-4 12V V-SPEC HIGH PERFORMANCE AGM BATTERY' and the it has enough cranking amps. I'll try strip it down the lithium, see what cells are in it and maybe I can repair it, if I go back to lithium I'll probably get a lithium rectifier, 'Ricks' type, and only use proper lithium chargers, never let it discharge fully, lithium really doesnt have a great advantage in this application.

[@andrewvoigt1133]

That is a scooter battery probably 150cc or less I have had them last more than 2 years The crank amp is not all that demanding at 60cca But if you're worried about it add another 4 cells there is definitely room That particular battery could probably start a 650 if you stuffed some more cells Personally I'd like 4×3.7v cells as my scooter runs at 14.5

[@Duby4life]

Nice! Two years sounds like a good life for something this small.

[@brutusmaximus5380]

wow there's enough space to add a capacitor bank.

[@Duby4life]

Yep! Lots of empty space in there. If you knew what you were doing, there’s probably a few mods you could make!

[@shogun3773]

Thanks 👍

[@Duby4life]

No problem!

[@rlmillr]

would love to see the bms inside these batteries. Running lifepo4 batteries below 2.5 volts per cell will damage them at best and most likely destroy them. the same is true at more than 3.7 volts per cell. I cannot see these tiny bms's handling the current needed to start the bike but have never seen one. If the battery does not disconnect if you run it down it is just stupid. I have also not seen 18650 batteries able to safely output more than 30 amps so the 200+ cca is destroying the cell every time you start it. Don't know the rating on the pouch cells but I doubt it is 200 amp.

[@Duby4life]

Hey Rick, I appreciate the comment. I don’t know how they make them so they hold up as long as they do, but you more right. These little lithium’s are really not made for this. That’s probably why I see so many brought in the be “recycled”.

[@mohgujai]

I have been told you can't charge Li Ion batteries directly because of low internal resistance, and will kill your alternator? But I don't see any special charging circuitry within these batteries that you've shown.

[@Duby4life]

I wasn’t aware of that. In my experience, I have a lot of trouble trying to charge lithium batteries (that have been deeply discharged) when I hook my charger leads up to the terminals on the outside of a lithium ion battery pack. Many times I have to disassemble a pack and hook up directly to the lithium cells, bypassing the circuitry, in order to get it to charge.

[@rickrodrigues2219]

What's your opinion of the batteries in electric vehicles which are subjected to high discharge? Are EV manufacturers ripping off buyers with the high prices?

[@Duby4life]

Hey Rick, I appreciate your comment. I don’t know enough about their innards to give you more than my opinion. The Tesla’s were made with a very similar battery to this one, just LOTS of them. I’m not sure if the current EV’s are still made with 18650 cells or not. I would think the lithium polymer would tolerate the high discharge better than typical lithium ion cells. Perhaps Li-Po’s aren’t used due to being more volatile though. Personally, I think the EV’s are unsustainable and impractical for many applications. With the power grid already having issues, why overload it with cars needing to be charged? I think the electric bikes, scooters and other such devices are excellent for individuals who have short commutes and financial limitations. If my commute were shorter, I’d be able to justify getting a one-wheel for myself and would very much enjoy using one!

[@diylithiumguy]

1.1Ah? lol... I'm surprised that was able to start anything at all. What was it's application?

[@Duby4life]

I’m not certain, but it may have been a low CC dirt bike. But you’re right, this isn’t a great application for lithium.

[@HappyHands.]

I just made the mistake of buying a NOCO npl5 12v Lithium Ion battery from walmart and guess what.. its a Non-refundable, non-returnable item. And according to NOCO's website they will ONLY accept returns of batteries bought on THEIR website. So im out 79 dollars for the battery and 12 dollars for NC recycling fee without an exchange. Not only that but NOCO's website says you can only use THEIR charger or it voids the warranty! Lithium powersport batteries are such a scam. IF ONLY I HAD RESEARCHED IT FIRST but its like the merchants dont want you to know. NOWHERE on walmarts battery shelf does it say "Non-returnable" or "Non-refundable"

[@Duby4life]

Man! I feel for ya. Just the fact that every lithium battery manufacturer mandates that you use their specific charger shows you how temperamental and sensitive these batteries are. They only hold up well under the most ideal circumstances it seems. Sorry you had such a bad experience! Lithium had it’s uses. I’m not convinced that motorcycles and scooters are one of them.

[@andrewhaselblad2676]

The big one, Is it lithium polymer or lithium Lifepo4?

[@Duby4life]

Lithium Polymer

[@andrewhaselblad2676]

@@Duby4life nope. I think it is lithium phosphate/lifepo4. If lithium polymer, the voltage is to big. Per cell is 3.7v, but the lifepo4 is 3.3v per cell

[@Duby4life]

@@andrewhaselblad2676 Unless I’m mistaken, it’s definitely a Lithium Polymer. You can see the gray polymer bricks stacked on top of each other. It could be that is a lithium phosphate polymer battery.

[@benkanobe7500]

I'm confused by the end of this YT (around 4:50 on). You say that LIFEPO4 batteries are not supposed to be discharged very much. Yet the very reason they are used in Solar applications is they can take repeated and regular deep discharging without degradation unlike Lead Acid Batteries (flooded or otherwise) which lose life when discharged beyond 25% on a regular basis. Your information is exactly the opposite of what the world of solar has been saying and all the science behind it. What am I missing here?

[@Duby4life]

Perhaps I misspoke! What I meant was, a bike starting-even a small bike-requires a good bit of energy to get going. While LIFEPO4 batteries are excellent at being discharged and charged repeatedly and not wearing down as quickly, the RAPID discharge of a bike starting is much more demanding for the battery. With a rapid discharge, there is much more heat, gassing, and overall wear on the cells. So what I meant to say was that LIFEPO4 batteries are not designed to be so quickly discharged, especially on the regular.

[@stevenjohn350]

@@Duby4life thank you for the clarification, that helps me lots.

[@douggardner9175]

Please lose the damn annoying music

[@Duby4life]

Thanks for the feedback Doug. This was one of my earlier uploads. Since this one I’ve been more mindful of my background music.

[@douggardner9175]

Great