Don't Buy a Lithium Motorcycle Battery Before You Watch This Video!!!

[@cycletron]

I hope you all find this information helpful! I sure did not know what I was getting into after buying a lithium motorcycle battery.

[@noelsantiago3159]

I've had my lithium battery for 3 years now, and i love them. Those harley davidson batteries are garbage.

[@craige2574]

I bought three NOCO batteries for my three bikes, when they came out last year. I've had two trickle chargers from this company, very good products. The chargers have these three options: Lithium, AGM, and conventional. They batteries are good so far. They hold a charge, much better than the stock Deka battery that came in my Harley Road Glide. Also, went from 15 lbs down to 5 lbs. I don't believe they start the bikes any better than stock AGM batteries, even though they claim more power. Can't talk to the cold though. I live in Florida, we had our three day winter, didn't test them at that time.🥶

[@cycletron]

I think you'll be fine with lithium batteries in Florida; where I live not so much!

[@randymccalla9995]

Just curious about something I have found that some individuals try to torque their battery connections.. nope not good, lock washers better idea.

[@midlymdad1293]

I want Noco for all my bikes but many comment hold me back, some say the were bad out of the box some say battery went bad after a week! I live in similar weather as FL would love some input from you.

[@164procar4]

@@midlymdad1293 NOCO are SCAM batteries 2 out of 10 work out the box. I sent back to Amazon way to many to count

[@craigleeofficial]

I like the NOCO brand. That said. I just fit a Lithium NLP14 to my Nightster and almost immediately the speedometer started to drift and then stop working all together. And now it misfires slightly and tries to cut out when coming to a stop. Hopefully another new battery will rectify this issue. It didnt exist before the battery change.

[@stlchance]

I thought I needed a new battery last spring, when I started experiencing charging issues (turns out it was simply a broken battery connector on the pigtail, and the battery was OK). When I asked about a lithium battery at my Harley dealership (Doc's in St. Louis), they said that they'd stopped selling them, because of a number of issues, some of which you've mentioned here. One that you missed is that apparently if they drain completely down in cold weather, you can't recharge them (at least the Harley branded ones) - they' discovered this the first winter after Harley started selling them. I saw that H-D has a new version for sale, but I think that I'll stick with an AGM battery when I need to replace it in a couple of months.

[@cycletron]

Thanks very much. Yes, if they drain down past 10 volts and your charger doesn't have a BSM reset you then have a $300 doorstop!

[@dogphlap6749]

I replaced my 12V lead acid battery with a LiFe-PO4 battery 18 months ago and I'm very happy with this change. First off it never gets below 40F where I live. The battery came with a low current, voltage limited wall wart charger which has performed faultlessly (I've only needed to use it twice though). The battery has a built in BMS (surely any 12V Li-ion battery intended for motorcycle use would have its own built in BMS). The battery turns my 650cc RE motorcycle engine over with no hesitation or pronounced voltage drop, the engine starts easier than it did with the original lead acid battery plus the bike is that much lighter (my main concern has always been weight with this bike, the battery change like all the other mods I've made to this bike was weight motivated). Sounds to me like the problems you have been having are all down to Harley Davidson, they really need to own them and do right by their customers.

[@justinschwartz5863]

Never trust Harley for anything they warranty… Heard too many horror stories…

[@KiRiTO72987]

There is definitely a reason I'd never buy a new Harley I would consider used but never a new one they're basically the apple of motorcycle a decent product that has the price jacked up for the logo and horrible customer service

[@seymourscagnetti1413]

@@KiRiTO72987 I believe Harlie Davis motorcycle was bought out by "AMF"? A company that makes machines that rack bowling pins?

[@KiRiTO72987]

@@seymourscagnetti1413 that was a long time ago their no longer owned by them

[@scottyd980]

I have had a Lithium battery in my Suzuki 650 for 11 Years, Never been on a charger, still works like new. You Bought a Harley branded Lemon .

[@sifugrant4468]

My used Yamaha XSR 900 came with an Antigravity Lithium battery with "restart" feature. Bike sat 2 months in Texas garage over winter and would not start. All my kids ATV's and dirt bikes have either standard factory or cheap Walmart batteries and they all started right up. Only shows 2.8 volts and the "restart" feature is a button on the side of the battery that claims once you hit it, the battery auto saves enough power to get you started. Well, I hit the restart and it only powered the dash, but did not have enough cranking amps to turn over the engine. Put on trickle charger, but will not charge. I'm new to Lithium batteries, but my personal experience is save your $200 and buy a $50 traditional battery. I had no idea you needed a special charger, all of it seems like a BS marketing scheme to me. Appreciate you taking the time to explain all the details.

[@cycletron]

Thanks very much! Lithium batteries are a scam in my opinion.👍✌️

[@rent2ownnz]

Thanks for sharing your experience. Usually these Lithium BMS just needs to be disconnected and then rebooted again. I am building my own LIFE04 Battery and charging system for my Harley and will be running a 60Amp DC to DC adjustable Converter that will take all of the load from the Bikes charging system when the BMS shuts down. I will also be building in a reset/isolator button or switch that can be accessed from outside the battery case so that if there is a problem, My System will have variable Input and output voltage and current. This way I can isolate the BMS directly from the Life Battery completely and then reconnect it without putting the battery case apart. I will also have all independent voltages of each of the 8 cells displayed on the top (set in resin) so that at a glance, you can see if a cell is on its way out. I am building this battery so that I can get 10 years out of it at least. This will not need a special charger as it will all be built in. Just 2 more parts to come in and the project will be done. Cheers Westy.

[@cycletron]

Well you know your stuff! It is back to lead acid batteries for me though.

[@lemonadej.b.c.2077]

Thanks for the Lithium specific maintenance info. My 2003 Low Rider was purchased kinda new, 699 miles, in 2003, it was a dealership owners bike. The HD battery it came with was the original HD factory battery from when it rolled out new. I put a quick 7500 miles on that bike and it sat a lot too. I use Deltran trickle chargers, the 800 waterproof ones, that battery lasted just over 10yrs in both hot and cold environments. I just purchased a replacement Noco 20 battery for my 2008 Yamaha Big Bear, 5yr warranty. I topped it off with a Noco Genius Trickle charger that had previously purchased, similar size and cost as the Deltran 800. It took longer than I thought to top it off, 3-4hrs. Installed it in -3 degree weather into a quad that was sitting in the woods for over 24hrs at those temps. Windchill was probably colder, cable were frozen and had to be worked prior to functioning. Carb was sticky and fuel didn’t want to flow. Battery started strong while turning over for well over 8-10min with multiple attempts working choke, throttle and tapping on carb bowl. Fired up strong. Left outside when I got it home and fired up next day assisting with pulling down 100” tall tree. Temps still not above 15 degrees as a high, windchill less, says feels like -6 degrees, quad still outside, starts strong, LED headlights and two NiLight spotlights much stronger steadier beams then when the Yusa Lead Acid or Deka batteries were in the quad. Those were my previous favorite brands for recreational vehicles along with Interstate. I went with Noco because I purchased a Jumper Pack made by them a few years ago and have been impressed with its ability, look, size and price. Only been a few days with the Noco Lithiium 20 battery, $179 at AutoZone, but it’s been tortured tested right out of the gates and my original fear of Lithium not functioning in the cold has been dismissed, the 5yr exchange right at any AutoZone also helps with the $179 price tag but most AGM batteries are at a cost within $50-90 of that and come with a 60 day or 6mo warranty. It’s ridiculously light if that matters to your application?? I’ll most likely be putting these in my dual sport Motos when the next AGM needs replaced, my Harley as well. Thanks again for researching the specifics, I’m not a big fan of reading and my fingers are too frozen to turn pages currently anyway 👍🏾

[@cycletron]

Thank you. We definitely had a similar experience. The lithium battery weight savings make more sense on a sport bike than a Harley in my opinion.

[@djbobbylow270]

I live in Chicago and I love my lithium battery, with anything you have to do your homework there are cheaper ones and there are expensive ones you also have to know how you are using them, with that being said Harley just put there name on a cheap product to make money I’ve had my lithium for 6 years and it starts in very cold weather because here in Chicago you have to start your bike at least once a week or every other week. You can do as you want but agms don’t last here in this cold weather a lot of people have switched to lithium, and most of them come with there own chargers because each one takes different amps to charge them that’s why they go bad because people just put the wrong charger on them you can’t do that you have to go to a battery store to learn more about batteries, and I have 2 cvo road glides

[@cycletron]

Thanks for your information. There is a lot more to managing those lithium batteries than any other type of battery.

[@jeffestrada6857]

Thanks for the information much appreciated and have learnt a few extra things about lithium batteries. I was only aware of the need of a special charger for them and that they have poor performance in colder temperatures. On a side note as a new subscriber I notice you reply to each and every comment. You should be commended for this as it appears a lot of KZbin people that produce videos and information do not. It’s pretty frustrating when you comment and dont get an answer or at least appreciation for your input. So I say again - thank you! Cheers from “ down under” Australia 🇦🇺 😊

[@cycletron]

Thanks very much, I am glad you have subscribed and are adding your comments to the videos. I try to reply to most all the comments that people make. It is one of the more rewarding aspects of producing content and I learn a lot from folks.

[@lancmac]

I have had a lithium HD battery for 5 years now.... Still starts every time...... What can I say, I like it........... BTW for cold temps around freezing or below... just turn on the bike and wait 1 minute then start ....

[@jaycee1373]

Looking for a lithium charger led me to this video, a day after an online purchase of Harley’s newer 8ah Lithium. Watched, read comments, called Harley to cancel. Said order was in progress, and could send RMA as soon as was shipped. I got 10 years out of my 03 Fatboy battery, 2 years 13 Road Glide, and going on third battery on my 16 Road Glide Ultra. Batteries are a gamble. You get good ones, you get bad ones. In the end, the Lithium cost me $78 more than what I could purchase the Harley AGM, with only the 1 yr warranty. Since I live in a warm climate, got a $40 Harley promo card, and a 5 year warranty, think I’ll keep it and learn the hard way. Thanks for sharing your experience and thoughts. 👍🏻

[@cycletron]

Thank you for your comments. I hope you have success with your battery purchase. I think that the technology will continue to improve over time.

[@Stevel_]

Very informative video, thank you. Was pondering getting one to save some weight, but hardly seems worth the trouble with all you mentioned.

[@cycletron]

Thank you. I switched back to a lead acid battery and the bike fires on the first try. I won't be going back to lithium batteries again for a motorcycle plus they can be a real fire hazard if you get mixed up on chargers.

[@pedroc6823]

I purchased a used bike a few months ago and the previous owner told me he upgraded the battery to a lithium. I thought one less thing to do. I had the same starting issues you have , but had no clue about the difference in protocol compared to LAcid and AGM. I did run into some info a bit at a time but your information just confirms what I was discovering. I think as you pointed out I don’t want to kill my starter. Going back to AGM problem solved. I also assume my rectifier was not playing nice with the lithium battery either. Thanks fir the info

[@cycletron]

You had the same experience that I did. Those Harley lithium batteries are complete junk.

[@garretglascock6434]

Thank you so much for making this video. I sell Harley parts and you have confirmed every suspicion as to why I do not like these batteries.

[@cycletron]

Thank you, I appreciate it! I don't know why HD did not cut their losses with this battery awhile back already. Sounds like the new battery will be much better but I will be sticking with the lead-acid battery from now on.

[@ronaldstaley806]

Thank You. My Harley Davidson Dealer, Use To Be Nice, And Helpful, Now They Turned Into Jerks. I Just Replaced My Battery, In My 2016 TRI Glide Ultra. I Went To My Loco Auto Part's Store, And I Was Going To Buy A Lithium Battery. The Parts Lady, Said No. Not For My Motorcycle. I Known Her, For Over 20+ Years, And, I Did Not Question Her About It. So Bought, The Battery, She Recommended. Thank's To You, Now I Know Why. Be Safe, And Stay Healthy.

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much I appreciate it! Glad I could help.

[@bobkeller8383]

I bought a shorai lithium battery over 10 years ago and had worked flawlessly until today. In the beginning I had issues with it discharging while on the shorai brand battery tender. It would shut off then drain the battery. Opposite of what a battery maintainer should do. So I bought a $20 battery tender brand lithium battery maintainer and it's worked perfect since. If a lithium battery discharges too low you can use a standard battery charger to bring the voltage up then the lithium charger will take over. Easy as pie

[@cycletron]

Great tip, thank you.

[@brianhaenlein396]

Try double hitting the start button. When you first try and it acts dead immediately hit the start button again. This has worked for me

[@jmx7656]

Ran across your video and definitely great info. You did a great job explaining about the bms in batteries. I've sold many chargers at a place I worked and always had to explain this same scenario you explained. Sold many of the Optimate 4s models over Noco brand due to price. Noco price is $99 over Optimate 4s is $75.00 and also some have said the Noco Genius 10 does not have the bms feature and some say it does but I am having a hard time finding if it does have the bms feature. The 4s models and the Pro-1 offer this feature. For motorcycles, the 4s 0.8a is perfect.

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much and I appreciate your sharing your experience on these chargers.

[@a.c.e.7568]

Why would I when I get 8+ full years from a regular motorcycle battery for less than half the cost.

[@Jpb66]

I purchased a lithium battery for my Indian scout about a year ago. I have started the bike a few times around the freezing mark, and I have had zero problems with the battery.

[@cycletron]

You must not have bought a Harley battery then.😊

[@jackorear2536]

I just put one of the new Life Harley batteries on my 2011 Electra Glide. Best battery I've ever seen. Super fast cranking with no problems so far. I can't compare it to the old Harley lithium because I never had one. Just my opinion, but I love it so far.

[@michaelp9621]

I have had my hd lithium battery for almost 3 years and it works great. I also purchased the dual charger for it as well. Completely different experience than you.

[@cycletron]

Glad to hear that some of them are working properly. My first 2 HD lithium batteries were complete duds before I switched back to AGM.

[@alfonsothegreat4481]

Your absolutely right! I made the same mistake. I’m back to my heavy lead battery

[@alancrane4693]

Never had issues with lithium battery had them in my sportster 2004 softail 2011 onwards replaced every 3 year's use Harley Davidson top up charger and optimate. Never had issues with those batteries riding in the UK. Before lithium had the led acid batteries and terrible always issues. Britain is mostly cold and damp those lithium batteries are a God send over here for our motorcycles.

[@cycletron]

I am glad your have had a better experience with that type of battery. I was surprised at how many issues were involved with this topic but it has at least been interesting.

[@buckotte1414]

It helps to cold start like this : Crank till it stalls the starter, turn off switch, wait 20-30 seconds, try again . Should turn over quickly.

[@cycletron]

Good suggestion but that did not work for me on the Harley battery. I went back to AGM and have had no issues since.

[@buckotte1414]

@@cycletron I'll be dog-goned

[@surfernorm6360]

Well done video !!☑ I was doing research when I saw yours and you covered the part about battery warmup as did other knowlegble content I was ASE certified in 95 and this lithim ion battery info is new to me. Looks like your problem can be attibuted to Harley and the dealer not puttng thier customers first.

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much, that does seem to be the issue here.

[@NorCal-refrigeration]

Remember a good BMS will have a low temperature sensor, not letting the battery charge in lower temps, due to it being harmful to the cells. Some batteries actually have heaters built into them for this.

[@cycletron]

Thank you for that information it's pretty interesting! I did not know about those additional features.

[@NorCal-refrigeration]

@@cycletron learning curve on home made solar generators. A lot of cheap lipo batteries have terrible bms and no low temp protection.

[@frankmarkovcijr5459]

If motorcycle still had kickstarters you could kick start it with a low battery ever since they got rid of kickstarters you are dependent upon a battery and starters and starters for Harley-Davidsons range from $400 on up.

[@cycletron]

True.

[@LuisHernandez-cb7bp]

I've been buying firepower since 2017 and they are pretty good. When needed to change I have used a regular 1.5Amp charger and in 15 minutes it's good to go. 2015 softail slim sir. My respect for you and your audience.. 🙏🏼

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much I really appreciate it!

[@masbrowawan6537]

today is july 2023 and i bought from local hd dealer since march 2019 and still works !!!

[@cycletron]

You have had much better luck than I did with their battery.

[@switchback8160]

I bought the orange lithium battery in 2022 had no problems for a year. I bought the dual charger from Costco. In august the middle of summer and not on a charger in month. The battery shorted and caused a fire.

[@cycletron]

That is scary. These batteries are worse than junk.

[@raymonddowns6064]

I bought the Antigravity ATX12-HD for a 2014 Sportster 48. The website recommended a CTEK Lithium charger and recommended fully charging before the first use. My first start was in 43 degree weather and it started better than it ever has started even without warming it up (which I have yet to do). So far so good. This battery has smart start technology where if the the voltage gets below a certain point it will shutdown. Then all you have to do is hit the restart button and it should start the bike.

[@cycletron]

I am glad you are having better luck than I did with your lithium battery. The fact that Harley immediately changed the manufacturer from the one that made my battery I think is confirmation of their bad initial offering.

[@remyllebeau77]

Interesting, but why would you pay so much for a battery that isn't even LifePO4? Aside from the self "jump start" feature. I could buy my LifePO4 battery, plus a jump starter for $150, and it would still be less than that battery.

[@raymonddowns6064]

@@remyllebeau77 It is actually a LiFePO4 battery. Yes not cheap and the CTEK charger wasn’t either so probably not for everyone, however, after four months I am still very pleased with the performance. During startup it has never sounded like it needs a charge but I have put in on the charger maybe 3 times in 4 months since the initial charge out of the box just because I thought better safe than sorry. The original Harley AGM battery situation was a nightmare as the parasitic drain had me hooking up the charger constantly and never had much faith in its ability to start in the cold. This battery spins the engine over so fast it puts a smile on my face you know like that’s the way a bike should start. I could swear the bike even pulls harder, no data to prove that but I feel it does.

[@remyllebeau77]

@@raymonddowns6064 Oh my fault. I didn't notice that it was LifePO4 because it didn't say anything about it until further down the Amazon page. Still I agree that it seems pricey. Hope it remains good for you, and I hope my el cheapo will work well in the cold too. My new lifePO4 battery claims to have "max CCA 250A" whatever that means, while my old AGM battery only claims 105 CCA.

[@scotfield3950]

I have ten trouble free years with my Klr 650/shorai

[@TheBigBlueMarble]

The Amp ratings of Li batteries are NOT cold-cranking amps.

[@seymourscagnetti1413]

EXCELLENT VIDEO AND INFO!!! .....I own several generators. I run only GENUINE Yuasa Japanese (motorcyle) batteries. The newest genset, a 3 yr. old EF4500ise, with a 20ah Yuasa AGM. The oldest genset, a 12 yr. old Yamaha EF12000DE - 9,500 Watt Electric Start with a 30ah Yuasa AGM. Both gens purchased new. The batteries came with acid packs. After acid is installed, the glass mats absorb the acid and the batteries become non-spillable AGM's. I have yet to experience an issue (replace) any of my Yuasa batteries (including the 12 yr. old EF12000DE/Yuasa battery). I just bought a new "JNC950" jump start box for our vehicles. I was considering replacing the 23 lb. 35ah group U1 agm battery with a much lighter 35ah lifepo4 battery. I think i'll pass on that one! When you really, absolutely, positively need to start your car, motorcyle or truck, stick with lead acid (AGM). They are proven.

[@MoxyDave]

Your experience mimics my own. I tried one in my seldom-used KTM 450 dirt bike. It worked normally for one summer. Then I let it sit over the winter and much to my chagrin it was completely dead in the Spring. Because it was so depleted, it would not take a charge again and I had to replace it with a normal lead-acid unit. Unfortunately if you let Lithium batteries completely discharge, they can be permanently destroyed. The weight savings is not worth the hassle, risk and cost if you don't have a specialized need like racing. Lead-acid has been around for almost 2 centuries now and remains mostly unchanged since the beginning. It's a very reliable and hassle-free technology. Maybe in another hundred years there will be a better technology but probably not in my lifetime. There are some valid uses for Lithium, but the average motorcycle is not designed for this and consequently performs very poorly.

[@cycletron]

I don't know why the industry is pushing these batteries for motorcycles. You confirmed what I suspected has happened with others. I swapped this lithium battery back for a lead-acid battery today. The outside temperature was 45 degrees Fahrenheit, just as it was when I tested the lithium battery in the video. Instead of taking 6 minutes to start, the bike fired up on the first push of the starter button!

[@problemslayer3538]

If you had disconnected the negative over the winter period , when you went back to the bike to start it, it would have started as normal.

[@jamesjenkins7814]

I just had to replace my battery and after learning it would cost about 140 more between the battery and tender the choice was easy but thanks for the info that makes me even happier for my choice

[@cycletron]

I am glad it worked out for you and thanks for watching!👍

[@rodneybarcus2233]

Yes I knew all of what you talked about before I made my purchase. I also knew harleys problems with their lithium batteries. My battery research led me to the 2X power sport lithium ion battery from batteries + bulbs. I always hook my bike up to the tender after ride even if I know I will ride again the next day. This is a good video and hopefully will help others make an informed decision.

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much! Do you have any issues starting your bike in cold temperatures?

[@rodneybarcus2233]

@@cycletron no problems at all. No matter the temperature I have always waited around 5 or 6 seconds before pushing the starter button.

[@cycletron]

@@rodneybarcus2233 Your research paid off because the Harley branded battery I had couldn't do the job at all.

[@scottarmstrong1172]

Great info CJ. I'm riding an older model and have never considered using a lithium battery. After watching this video I doubt that I will. I'm not sure how that all makes any kind of sense. It's way more complicated and for no good reason that I can see. One would think that Harley would at least provide some detailed instruction.

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much. I really don't see the advantage of buying a battery that costs twice as much as a regular battery and is twice the hassle! Never again!

[@Tradeskilz1]

I agree Harley Davidson should offer a lot more information on EVERYTHING! They are the most overpriced unknowledgeable company I've ever experienced. I have replaced my batteries in both my bikes to lithium and the main thing to know is make sure the cca cold crank amps are at least the required amount or more! I went with more on both of mine I have the Featherlight lithium ion my Harley and the Noco lithium ion my Honda. Both work extremely well. They weigh half as much as the lead acid . Great upgrade! 👍🏻👍🏻

[@swordfish1120]

Most lithium iron sulphate batteries are far superior to a lead acid type and most quality Lithium batteries have a built-in BMS. True the charging is more critical in a very cold climate so you probably need to have your battery connected to the charger when not running the bike. Also, turning the ignition to the on position is not like activating something that draws low power from the battery like your lights. Thats why many times it is suggested that you turn your lights on and wait 30 before you start your bike. I suspect the HD battery you bought was a lower grade China made battery with no BMS. Companies like Shorai and Antigravity make lithium batteries here in the US and are made very well. Not all lithium batteries are created equal.

[@cycletron]

Those are great points. Having a lithium battery on a heavy bike like a Harley is counter productive in my opinion. Also as I pointed out in the video, the output voltage from the Sportsters charging system is too low to recharge a lithium battery. For riding in cold weather the start up procedure is a hassle for a lithium battery.

[@swordfish1120]

@@cycletron I agree with you. I'm looking to replace the Harley I sold five years ago and when I buy one I will not have a lithium battery because the advantages of a lithium don't apply to a big V-Twin.

[@cycletron]

@@swordfish1120 Thank you for your comments!

[@creativearmada8044]

Noco chargers and some others have a 12v "force mode" which I have used to "wake up" lifepo batteries with no issue. "bms reset" is a feature I have never actually seen but a clean 12v will indeed "wake up" a lofepo bms in an off the shelf "OR" a DIY battery made from 4x 3.2v cells configured for 12v (parallel). The lifepo mode on the charger will not do it because it doesn't see the correct voltage. You can also use a bench power supply set to 14.6v at around 10-15amps to charge a lifepo manually. Reason I found this is in the market for a new hatley battery for my dad and know nothing about harleys- whereas i know a metric shit-ton about lifepo batteries. I also read that the hot oil and engine can trigger auto shut off when the battery gets too hot- Considering a heat shield and perhaps some kind of low voltage heater for the battery box because you DO NOT want to try and charge one if the ambient temps are near freezing- the cells cannot expand with the charge because they are too cold and you can kill the battery. These are the reasons lithium titanate batteries will be THE lithium solution for starting batteries based on lothium chemistry. There are a handful available for cars and trucks but I have not looked for a motorcycle battery that is lithium titanate yet.

[@cycletron]

I will have to look into getting one of those chargers. Thank you.

[@cadummoraes]

i was think to buy a Life battery for my xl1200ns. I gave up after I saw your video . I'm gonna to buy the traditional one. It seems the Harley is learning about this new kind of battery. Maybe in the future it could be possible change the battery to Life without this troubles. thanks for your video.

[@cycletron]

Thank you I'm glad it was helpful!

[@EasyRiderGreg]

That's too long for me to wait to get the engine started. I have not bought one, thought they were way too expensive. I knew they needed different chargers and had to be warmed or wakened up. I felt that if you needed a different type of charger/tender then the charging system of a vehicle that was made with a lead acid battery probably wouldn't be right for the lithium battery. Thanks for the info CJ.

[@cycletron]

Thanks Greg. I am going to swap back for a lead-acid battery and get refunded the difference. These batteries make no sense for a Harley or for any bike in this climate as far as I am concerned but I did not know any better at the time.

[@johnjagodzinski9878]

Thanks for the information about lithium battery. I will stick to lead acid

[@brap17x]

The Antigravity brand makes a good brand for lithium.

[@cycletron]

I'm one and done on lithium batteries. They may make more sense for someone who lives in a warm climate but they are no good for low teperatures in my experience.

[@EZLivin-zk4gm]

You bought a Harley battery. Enough said.

[@danlove4270]

I found out the hard way that it’s also wrong to replace a lead acid battery with an AGM type battery ..... You are right.....few people seem to know different battery types are not always interchangeable especially with an older vehicle...Newer does not always mean better. I like your channel Cycletron. You speak of important issues folks need to be aware of. Thank you.

[@cycletron]

Thanks very much, I appreciate it!✌👍

[@randymccalla9995]

Just where did you find that out, because an AGM can be fully charged in about an hour versus a lead acid requiring 8 hours.

[@danlove4270]

@@randymccalla9995 AGM battereries require a voltage regulator that is programed for agm..AGM battereies charge differently

[@randymccalla9995]

@@danlove4270 Just a FYI friend, an AGM is a lead acid battery.

[@JazzLowrider]

I agree you really don’t need a lithium battery but if you want thats your choice, i think a quality agm led acid battery is good enough economically, and all you need in the winter months, or when not riding for a while, is a battery tender whis is very cheap under $20, lithium batteries could have problems in the northern parts of the us, also if you drain them by accident they could be damaged, and im not sure most older bikes charging system is good for lithium, so why bother, led acid agm are high quality tried and trure they will do the job perfectly, by the time they die, you by another one and still both cheaper than lithium.

[@cycletron]

I agree with you. Thanks for your comments.

[@zaks9919]

Built in Battery Management System ? when was the industry going to tell us this ? Already knew these batteries are not compatible with "some " charging systems on bikes , but I guess I'm just repeating what you found out the hard way . Very informative video !

[@cycletron]

Thank you very much! I appreciate it.👍✌

[@DiogenesOG]

Lithium batteries are great for laptops, phones and other applications where the battery is used as a primary power source but on a vehicle that has a constant charging system, AGMs or SLAs are better. Also I ride in sub-freezing temps which renders lithiums more trouble than they're worth. The weight savings is also a foolish concern since fuel weighs ~6lbs per gallon and people don't seem to get bent out of shape about the extra weight when they fill up at a gas station.

[@cycletron]

You make a great point that's right on!

[@DearMajesty]

It's true lithium batteries are more finicky, but it's very clear that the HD branded battery was junk. A high-quality lithium battery made to operate as a starter battery will not have this problem.

[@Coladudetje]

Should have used LTO batteries i use them without bms. Can last 60 years and doenst catch fire but it does pop and leak and smell like garlic if you misuse them.

[@cycletron]

Thank you. I will keep that in mind. I went back to AGM after this experience.

[@ktestable]

1. To reset your bms, simply connect your lithium battery to a 12v power supply just for a couple of seconds 2. Or connect it in parallel with a working 12v battery. 3. You can also connect the lithium battery to the charger and jump start it using another 12v battery.

[@cycletron]

Great tips. Thank you.

[@sathishrao7926]

The concept of having a charger at home and periodic recharging of motorcycle batteries is quite alien to me (and most of us in India).. On the occasions where my motorcycle wouldn’t start, I’d get the battery examined by a mechanic who’d either recharge it or replace it with a new one.. I don’t even know whether these batteries are Lead acid or Lithium ion ones.. On the other hand, I’ve experience with both the types of rechargeable batteries on Electric cars.. I had an EV running on Lead Acid battery in 2010 - It had a poor mileage, longer charging time and the requirement of Alkaline water to be filled periodically.. I couldn’t ‘upgrade’ only the battery to Lithium ion, so I had to upgrade the car itself in 2016.. This var with a Lithium ion battery has a better mileage, shorter charge time and no need to fill Alkaline water periodically..

[@cycletron]

I suspect people in India don't park their bikes for 3 months in the winter!😀 I think the best technology works in the back ground. Battery technology will likely advance greatly in a few years but leaves much to be desired right now.

[@sathishrao7926]

@@cycletron Yes.. We have all season riding here (except maybe in a very few areas where in snows)..

[@Sal834]

Another great video! One more thing to add. These batteries do not work well in high heat. I have had friends who are stuck in traffic and the batteries overheated and we're no longer good. That is why I only use AGM batteries now. None of these headaches. Thanks for all the hard work and creating these videos!

[@cycletron]

Thanks very much for your support! I am trying to up my game on the video production but it is always a work in progress! Are you still on track to get a Janus?

[@Sal834]

Wrote Janus sales yesterday to what orders #'s are currently for 450. From videos it should be about 60 orders pending. Asked about supply chain issues on engines. Waiting on response. Want to get one but risky if pay and can't get bike. Thinking April if possible.

[@cycletron]

@@Sal834 I wonder if you can negotiate a refund if you don't meet an agreed upon delivery date? A few years ago I put a deposit on a new model Yamaha that was supposed to be delivered in July that year. I think I put the deposit down in March with the agreement that it would be refundable if the delivery date was more than 1 month later than promised. Sure enough, the Yamaha factory had an issue and deliver was being pushed to December. Since there was not much point taking delivery of touring bike in the dead of winter, I got a refund on my deposit and canceled the order. It took 2 years for that dealer to unload that bike but that wasn't on me!

[@Sal834]

Great idea and a $3500 non refundable deposit is required. My concern is that they are a very small company and if they can't import the motors I could be out if they do not survive. $3500 is not much but also not insignificant amount either. Will risk it but may try to negotiate deposit down and like you mention have a firm date set for delivery.

[@cycletron]

@@Sal834 I think that is a good approach. I can see a non-refundable deposit if a would be buyer simply changes his mind. I didn't know the engine sourcing would be a potential problem and could be concerning. Do you know when the last time was they got deliveries of engines from their vendor? In March 2020, I order a replacement fairing for my 600R from what I thought was a U.S. based company. All they were doing was drop shipping fairings from a Chinese supplier. At that time, bulky items that required overseas shipping were going to the back of the line. I ended up only receiving half my fairing after a considerable delay and finally got a refund from them after 2 months of hassle. That is why that bike is blue (original) and black (part of what was delivered). I lucked out in the what did get delivered were the side panels which was the main thing I needed. Good luck!

[@franksaxton3583]

Something else that the "premium motorcycle company" sells at premium prices that is total junk. When ever ANYTHING needs to be replaced in my Harleys, I *NEVER* install a Harley part. Lightning Start batteries (lead acid) 600 CCA have given me excellent service recently. And the battery is always on a tender when parked in the garage.

[@cycletron]

My local dealer tells people that they will reduce the resale of their Harley if they use non-HD parts and accessories!😂

[@lakecrab]

About 4 or 5 years ago I purchased a Ryobi line trimmer that uses 40V Lithium batteries. Good in theory BAD, BAD, BAD, in practice.

[@cycletron]

I haven't had much luck with Ryobi for some reason.

[@lynskyrd]

Let me help you out... Don't buy ANYTHING with the Harley-Davidson name stamped on it... including the bikes. After 2006 -> Harley had officially lost their way.

[@p.b.7861]

Does not the “Reset” feature on your Lithium charger need to design for your Specific HD ?

[@cycletron]

I also think that Harley battery was totally incompatible for the bike they sold it to me for. The charging system of my Roadster didn't put out enough voltage to recharge the battery properly.

[@frankbowe4469]

Had the same problem with a new battery just went dead in 2019 harley replaced it free I've never had a problem with it starting when it's cold 30s 40s and the bike has set for a week or so I've always ran the charger I got at harley for about a hr or when it's ready and it starts right up I own a 17 flhrxs going on 4 yrs ,guess I'm lucky I have more of a concern of it blowing up in a fire ball with me on it you see that alot in china with there electric motor bikes but that's China alot of things are always blowing up there.

[@bobsch-gd6ze]

Why did you trailer your bike back? How hard was/is it to remove said battery for warranty? Yes, Lithium batteries are complicated , but they work when needed . Yes, they are pricey , but you can be the coolest biker in the pack if you own one.

[@cycletron]

I didn't trailer my bike back. I am not sure how you got that impression.

[@bobsch-gd6ze]

@@cycletron I dont have the time stamp, but I clearly heard you say you trailered it back...but I digress

[@miscprojects9662]

Same old story that a battery charger that is able to detect or have a setting for battery type is required to properly charge the battery meanwhile it’s the same old magneto or alternator charging it…..

[@zawzawaung6789]

I've used Odyssey batteries for 20+ years on my bigger bikes. Most of these batteries have lasted much longer than lead acid. But now I'm overseas and have a Royal Enfield Himalayan, for which I bought a lithium. Aside from the special charger, I did not know about the other problems associated. As the place I live gets 115ºF in the shade by mid-morning, I thought the lithium would last longer. I bought the Bikemaster lithium charger and the battery was an Ampxell. I can remember when the Army started issuing lithium sulfide batteries back in the mid80s for our radios; they were nice because they were half the size/weight of the old magnesium batteries, we got full voltage, and they delivered in low temperatures. Maybe those memories made me try a lithium for the bike. We'll see how this battery does here.

[@cycletron]

Hopefully you'll have good luck with your lithium battery. I'm sticking with lead acid though.

[@zawzawaung6789]

@@cycletron I might come to that finding as well. But as I had to pack it with me and declare as baggage on a flight, a lithium of this type was more acceptable to airline than leas acid. Currently Burma is short of all sorts of things since the military took over last year. Even tires for this bike need packed in.

[@cycletron]

@@zawzawaung6789 Sounds like quite an adventure if I may call it that.

[@my.motorrad]

I have heard comments on either side. Some swear by them, some swear at them. The only lithium I've heard fairly consistent good reviews is Shorai. I got 5.5 years out of an AGM on my RT for the last battery. That's pretty good in AZ and the heat kills lead acid batteries in cars in 2-4 years. I think I'll stick with an AGM.

[@cycletron]

I got the dealer to agree to let me trade the lithium battery for an AGM. I think that is definitely the way to go. I will avoid lithium batteries like the plague now.

[@randymccalla9995]

Lithium is the one that will just "stay dead". If you let It go half a year, and It won't charge without extra long activity to "start" It charging.

[@randymccalla9995]

@@cycletron I have had a An AGM last, and start the bike, for 10 years. The charging system actually went out before the battery did.

[@remyllebeau77]

This is very disappointing for me because I had hoped that LifePO4 would be a much better battery for cold starting and leaving it out in the cold. I was tired of batteries dying every winter or every other winter (unfortunately I don't have a power outlet for a charger where I garage my ride), so I even went as far as to buy and fit on a disconnect for the battery so it would not have to sit in the cold and I could take it inside and use a trickle charger.

[@cycletron]

These batteries are a total hassle in cold weather. You found a good work around.

[@zaireine2336]

I would plan to buy that kind of battery, but i am curious since I had bought my Harley my battery were used is YUASA but no worked longer.

[@cycletron]

I have generally had good luck with Yuasa batteries.

[@FunAllDayLong4353]

I had a couple of different problems with mine. Firstly the battery comes with a charge indicator function. Press it and it showed fully charged. But it wasn't. So I installed it in the bike at the beginning of Winter in early Dec. After a few days it seemed to struggle with cold starts. I left it for two weeks and it was almost dead and refused to wake up. The charge indicator still said "fully charged". Anyway I put it on the special Optimate charger. The instructions say it requires a 6 min charge. Yes that's right 6 min!!!!! I'm thinking there's been a problem with the translation from the Chinese, because it took 3 hours on the Optimate to give me all the green lights. Hopefully its a mixture of slightly different technology within the batteries, but I think eventually we'll all get to know the ins and outs of them and then they'll become all of what they promised to be. 👍

[@cycletron]

Thank you. Yes, I agree these batteries have a way to go and the people selling them should offer more guidance on their care and use. I do believe lithium batteries will improve over time.

[@streetsean]

Thanks for the info, I was looking at getting one when I need a new battery but not anymore as I live in Ontario and don't need those headaches

[@cycletron]

People that seem to have the most luck with these type of batteries seem to live in Florida!

[@mumirluu3865]

Thanks you so much for the info, I almost bought a darn Litium battery that would not be good for cold start,since I live in a very cold place,even do I dont use it in winter,itsco'd here,I will buy a gell battery instead. Thanks for your video. I will not buy a lithium.

[@cycletron]

@@mumirluu3865 Thank you. Glad I could help!

[@RobynMaples]

I use a NOCO with NO tender. No problems whatsoever and my 113 has never started so good.

[@emersongraves5869]

Appreciate that information, I definitely don't want that headache. I'll stick to the old-fashioned acid battery and buy as powerful one as I can to operate my stereo upgrade.

[@cycletron]

I went back to AGM too. Works way better and it's not like a needed the weight savings of a lithium battery.

[@steveoconnor1527]

I had the same experience with the lithium ion battery. Dealer did not have an appropriate charger. Bought a NOCO charger and was still unable to revive the battery.

[@cycletron]

There is a lot more to these batteries than the retailers are telling their customers for sure.

[@rickellithorpe7428]

I live in Michigan. So not sure that kind of battery will be good for me.

[@cycletron]

My advice would be to get an AGM.

[@geneclarke2205]

I only buy gel lead acid batteries since the acid won't leak out in the event of damaged. Do you know who manufactured the battery for Harley? Shorai, Antigravity, and Full Spectrum appear to have good reputations. I can see the advantage in weight savings for sport bikes and off road bikes or long term storage is an issue but generally a gel battery works fine. Is this a case of Harley buying cheap off brand batteries and selling them at top dollar? I'm really surprised the Harley dealer didn't provide instructions and Harley gave you a hard time with the warranty.

[@cycletron]

I did a lot of research but still could not figure out the company that made the HD branded batteries. It is not East Penn manufacturing though as some websites have suggested (I actually called them and they said they only make lead-acid type batteries for HD and even they did not know who made the lithium batteries). Who ever it was, it is apparently a different company making them for HD now.

[@dieseltech139]

Great content👍 I bought a Fire Power Featherweight Lithium Battery HJTX20HQ-FP For a total of $200.20 with tax in PA from RevZilla and it is 6 months old and I don't like it, I don't trust it. My Victory Vision starts slower even though battery is supposed to be more powerful. It seems to discharge easier sitting at idle with accessories on including heated gear and seems to over charge when driving for long time non stop. I replaced the regulator because I thought it was the problem but after hearing from others, I think this lithium battery is not suitable for my cycle and only thing it has going for it is it IS VERY light and easy to handle but that is all. I am going back to the best AGM sealed lead acid maintenance free battery like the Duracell Ultra 20HL-BS 12V 310CCA AGM Battery The Advanced AGM design provides superior vibration resistance and temperature tolerance and will be better suited for my 2013 Victory motorcycle as this is battery bike was designed to use. Screw the new unreliable lithium batteries. They might be good for new bikes but not mine. ✌️ 🇺🇸

[@cycletron]

Thank you! I am with you on this topic and am done with lithium batteries.

[@CCP600]

The only thing that made me consider paying so much for the Harley lithium battery is the 5 year warranty. Warranty seems to be worthless if there will be so many problems

[@cycletron]

I agree with you. This battery was nothing but trouble.

[@JosephBocchino-xs9hs]

Wait a few minutes thats.junk Just like to hit button and go thank you for advice.

[@Magicinstalls]

I really can’t speak for the Harley Davidson line of lithium batteries. But it looks like anti-gravity has what you need. You’re supposed to upsize your battery if you live in extremely cold weather, specifically if you have a large V-twin you’re supposed to upsize the battery. Harley Davidson possibly dropped the ball by under sizing that battery. I have a lith in my BMW XR and I’ve never had a problem with it.

[@cycletron]

Waiting several minutes for my battery to warm up before I could start it is too much of a hassle for me. Plus cranking it should put enough load to warm up the battery and it still took 6 minutes to start. When I bought the battery there was no guidance from the dealer about what charger I needed for it. I learned a lot from this bad experience with a lithium battery. For a heavy cruiser like a Sportster (or other model) there is simply no benefit to a lithium battery since weight savings is not an issue for such a heavy bike.

[@rcmoot]

I tried a company's battery and warmed them up to start, and went dead. First one blew out spot welds on caps. Second one was less copper plates on caps and blew out spot welds again. Went back to lead acid and much happier.

[@cycletron]

I went back to lead acid too. No issues since then.

[@garypinkney5463]

Had One I got from BikeMaster , BMS Circuit Failed Battery went up!!! Fire,, Did not work in the Cold anyway Just a Summer Battery,,

[@cycletron]

Wow a fire. I am lucky mine didn't catch fire. I am back to AGM batteries.

[@garypinkney5463]

@@cycletron I did Fix the Cold Issue ,,By Using A Halogen Headlight Bulb , And A Timer to Burn 2 Min, Had Programed Timer to Do a 2Minute Burn 3 times 12Am -12:02, Again at 3AM - 3:02 Again at 5:28am - 5:30 Am, Cranks on 1 or 2 cranks after 2Min Burn... But Worked for 2 Months ti'll Spring Switch Off Timer Was warm enough. Spring Mornings... But forgot to fix BMS Circuit, Which Failed when i was Trying to Speed Cranking , Battery charger and Jumper at the same time ,Burnt out the Chip.. Adding more Power won't work Anyway...Cold Mornings.... Still took 6Min to Crank even Longer when Days are Coldest,

[@peterbarrett5496]

What temperature cold do u need to wearGloves

[@cycletron]

I always wear glove no matter the temp just for slide protection. I have ridden my bike when it was only 15 degrees F outside. It was a short trip.

[@jimmydavis5055]

Thanks for the info. I'm very much a layman on this issue, but I've always heard lithium batteries aren't great for vehicles unless they're fully electric. The reason for lithium for electric cars and bikes is to make them lighter and charge faster. For ICE vehicles, there's really not a point. Is weird. It seems like HD innovates in weird ways. I love their bikes, but there are plenty of other ways to make the cruiser more modern.

[@cycletron]

Thanks for your comments. I honestly have no idea why they would even bother to sell these batteries for a cruiser except apparently there is a market niche consisting of people who run massive stereo systems on their motorcycles which is a pretty small market indeed. There are also significant safety issues associated with lithium batteries. I agree with you, there have got to be better upgrades that HD should be focusing on!

[@bnplaza]

It was a Harley-Davidson lithium battery

[@yourboyltwiggs]

Lithium batteries from Harley are garbage. I have a biker's choice lithium battery and love it I've had it for going on 9 years now in my fxr And come to think of it I've never even had to charge it So in my experience with them they're great you just have to buy the right one. Same old Harley Mo always late to the show.

[@dinot71]

Wow you paid $300 for a battery that's worth $100 at least if you bought a YUASA. Every at Harley is Junk, bikes and all.

[@cycletron]

Actually the battery was worth zero since it didn't work. I traded it back for a $100 lead acid battery.

[@williamstidham2163]

I bought a Walmart battery for 65.00 and it last all year but my last one lasted 30 days, they give me a new one no charge and the new one died in the winter so I will have to buy another but hay. 65.00 not that bad for a hot battery when I’m on my bike

[@danielcarroll5667]

Thanks for the information...

[@johnhammered3321]

Purchased a NOCO Lith batt for my 2016 rdkg 3 months ago. Also got a lith trcklchg. Rated at 700 cca 5 yr warranty for $167. So far it works great. My alarm system use to run acid batt down if i didn't put it on chrg in a week. My pan america AGM batt fail after 5 months with agm chrg. Only has 225 cca. At this point harley corporate has not done anything. Apparently they are aware of this issue and do not have a replacement available at the moment. No one makes a lithium that will fit. It's only been 2 weeks! Hopefully they will come up with a solution soon. They have a recall on this starting issue when temps drop below 32 degrees the infotainment fails. I live in florida and temps rarely get there. They did for few days when i started having a starting issue.🏍😑✌

[@cycletron]

Thanks for the info. I heard about the recall. It apparentley affected Pan America and Sportster S. I didn't know that there was a wait for the fix.✌️

[@rickgartner7900]

I purchased one of the HD batteries mentioned here on surplus. I opened the battery and found the battery is half empty the cells occupied about half of the case. What is more interesting is the so called BMS is not a BMS, it’s a battery balancer The battery balancer will to charge each of the cells to a specific voltage, but it will not prevent over charging or over discharge. This could have been a good battery if the spent a few extra dollars on a real BMS. A true BMS will stop at over charging at around 14.6 volts and discharging below a specific voltage to prevent under voltage. A good BMS could have prevented this. Shame on Harley Davidson for releasing such a poor product at a super premium price. They should be embarrassed.

[@cycletron]

Thanks for sharing your experience. I think that battery was complete junk.

[@remyllebeau77]

Or perhaps their customers should be embarrassed for not realizing what a scam the whole company is. Just because you pay a lot for a brand name, doesn't mean you will get a quality product to match.

[@impaledface7694]

I knew about most of these issues, but the main reason is justification. I can't justify the cost for the 10lbs loss. The new charger added on is bad enough, but having to let the battery warm up, then letting the bike warm up really slows down the riding process. I have had great luck with my 7 bikes charging their battery once a month if not ridden much. Maybe in a couple years lithium batteries will be optimized for bikes, but until then I am going to keep my good ole lead acid batteries.

[@cycletron]

I am with you there. I am switching back too on the Roadster. The lithium batteries are not sufficiently developed yet.

[@thaomypham5216]

lithium battery can't never use for bikes ..........they gonna need at least 50 years to make that happen ...

[@jimwilson946]

I think your problem with Lithium Batteries is the name on the casing " Harley Davidson" just everything else with the "Harley" name on, over priced and under performing.

[@cycletron]

That probably has a lot to do with it but I'd still never buy another lithium battery for my climate.

[@jimwilson946]

The thing is I personally know a lot of people who have switched to Lithium Batteries and have not experienced any problems, infact most are full of praise to the extent they could be described as getting boring. I'm sure there are parts of the world that get more extreme weather conditions than here in the UK, but then does battery acid freeze or boil?

[@DivergentDroid]

IMO a lead acid battery used with a Battery Tender Jr. is the way to go. Also do everything you can to lessen the draw on the battery such as preplacing all your lights with LED's.

[@cycletron]

That tip about the LED lighting is a good one, especially if someone does mostly in town riding.

[@DivergentDroid]

@@cycletron I think it helps. I cannot turn off the headlight of my scooter, it's designed to be on all the time. Add to the system a 12v charger and USB chargers to power phones or GPS and you'll need all the extra power you can get.

[@DivergentDroid]

@@cycletron Btw, did you hear that all new cars made after 2026 will be required by law not only be able to track you in real time, the car will have a remote kill switch. It doesn't apply to motorcycles yet but it's interesting and scary as hell. You'll want to see S.1331 - RIDE Act of 2021 and H.R.3684 - Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act, look in SEC. 24220.

[@cycletron]

@@DivergentDroid Big brother for sure. Wait until self driving takes over. I imagine the feds can set up exclusion zones so that no cars, or certain cars, can't have access to a given location like an area of a city during an emergency (or any other reason they come up with). I used to read a lot of science fiction when I was a kid and those 60's and 70's era authors saw this kind of thing coming.

[@johney4484]

What a great video. And also, what a bunch of crap these lithium batteries don’t seem to hold up. The good old AGM stock battery is the only way to go. I saw your multimeter dropped to 5 V one time when you hit the starter. And you’re also correct when you say your heart on the starter because it won’t start. Low-voltage will ruin the starter. Keep that in mind. Ditch the lithium battery. Stick with the AGM. Keep it on a battery tender when you’re not riding the bike. You’ll love yourself for it.

[@cycletron]

Thank you! I went back to AGM for good and no more problems.

[@mojarra0815]

Excellent Info. Thank you.

[@cycletron]

Thanks for watching and commenting!👍

[@nzseagull]

Thank you 🙏

[@cycletron]

Thanks for checking it out.

[@cancelchannel3394]

I only use lead acid batteries

[@jerryweiser1145]

Bought a HD battery June 2020 it lasted 13 months, dealer said hed give me 20% off another battery. No batteries in stock ,probably on a ship from China. Why would I buy another HD battery knowing it's junk.

[@cycletron]

I didn't realize that this battery had so many issues until after I bought it. It us a complete ripoff!

[@ericfarley1475]

nope, I think I'll just put these batteries in the same category as smart garage door openers and refrigerators. life is too short to complicate the small things. just my $.02.

[@robcip6133]

You should be able to reset your BMS by jumping it with another battery.

[@cycletron]

That is an interesting suggestion that I dud not try. I am going to stick with AGM batteries from niw on I think!