What's NEXT for 3D Sonic? (An Analysis)

Now that Mania and Forces have released, and one game did a lot better than the other, where could Sonic Team be taking the franchise next in terms of its main line 3D entries?
One thing I realised after wrapping up with this video is I didn't really address whether or not I think a new 3D game will be coming out in 2018. Personally, I don't think we'll be seeing another main 3D Sonic game until 2019 at least, but you never know, we might at least get some spin-off next year for the sake of it.
CREDITS:
Sonic JP font by StudioPEP on DeviantART - studiopep.deviantart.com/art/...
Sonic Forces non-trailer footage by BlueParadox -
/ thesonicgamer20ix
Sonic "thinking" render by my friend EpochPho3nix - pho3nixsfm.deviantart.com/
ShayMay's "Sonic Spitball" series - • Sonic Spitball
TheKazeBlade's "Essential Elements of Sonic" video - • Essential Elements of ...
TheKazeBlade's "Sonic Forces: The Problems We Are Ignoring" video - • Sonic Forces: The Prob...
Images, Video and Music from:
Sonic Forces (2017)
Sonic Mania (2017)
Sonic Adventure (1998-2017 with Dreamcast Conversion Mod)
Sonic Adventure 2 (2001)
Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles (1994)
Shadow the Hedgehog (2005)
Sonic Unleashed (2008-2013 via the Unleashed Project Mod for Sonic Generations)
Sonic and the Black Knight (2009)
Sonic Colours (2010)
Sonic Generations (2011)
Green Hill Paradise Act 2 (2016)
Sonic Utopia (2016)
Overwatch (2016)
Titanfall 2 (2016)
Spider-Man 2 (2004)
Sonic the Hedgehog Archie comic book series (1993-2017)
Twitter: / telekinesticman
Discord Group: / discord
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3DS: 1092-0129-7474 Caelum
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Steam: steamcommunity.com/id/telekine...
Tumblr: / telekinesticman
Instagram: / telekinesticman
DeviantART: telekinesticman.deviantart.com/

[@telekinesticman]

Hey everyone still watching this video! I just made a super long critique of Sonic Mania and I would love for you to give it a look. Thanks! kzbin.info/www/bejne/mXummqNobKaaf80

[@Sonic12Lexi]

Even though not all good sonic games are perfect, the critics gave some sonic games positive but not as perfect as you say. Sonic Adventure 2 is my favorite sonic game of all time, but it did receive well despite the game has only minor issues such as poor camera controls.

[@LilithLonelyHeart]

Well must admit that in 3D Sonic franchise lost itself but i think that maybe SEGA should take a look on other franchises on market for solutions for their problems, i mean if i think of any other franchise that gives a lot of not extremely fats paced but for sure dynamic platforming gameplay, Prince of Persia, and i'm not saying here to just rip off the whole parkour selling point of franchise but definitely think of better use of 3D space to make the stages feel as dynamic as long runs but with keeping them fairly shorter, just making our path filling the 3D space more. Well dunno i kinda had idea for a game but not really sure how this could work out, i got some feedback form some ppl and most of them say that idea itself is nice but needs to be done well and with proper thinking. Anyways speaking of the discussion about tone theme and esthetics, well i kinda feel it should be like old cartoons, like classic Powerpuff Girls or other cartoons from this times, on one hand something made definitely for kids to enjoy but written smart enough that even adults will enjoy watching it especially catching out jokes witch are not up to understand for kids but are hidden so well that kids just won't find out till they grow up, i mean there is a way to plot into such tone more serious topics, i mean Forces had great idea but it screwed it up, i mean they toned the entire "war" theme way too much showing us like only one serious battle in cut scene, when we actually should have bit more of them, as the dialogues indicate, or fact that Sonic was "tortured" for half a year but was perfectly fine after being found, we don't need blood or heavy wounds to indicate someone was trough heavy time SEGA, you could just put some bandages on him and make him bit weaker, and maybe not let him jump back to action so fast, as you also ruined idea of our Avatar becoming new hero, cuz saving sonic during 1st mission and actually ending up in mech ambush to get saved by him... not very heroic

[@firesniperbullet2]

If they pulled the sonic adventure 3 card modern sonic is guaranteed fucked

[@jonathans.2085]

I have a question, is there a way to purchase the old archie sonic comics? Or were they discontinued? Also, the Sonic Boom TV show, in my opinion, has great writing except maybe Knuckles

[@gamingwithdream2005]

My Sonic Wishlist/How I Would Picture The Franchise If Me Would Do It (im finna get so much backlash if this is read XD) 1. Have the people who worked on the Sonic Universe Comicline to work on the games, this was ian flynn and his team and them comics are pretty damn good I especially enjoyed Mobius 30 Years Later, the cast of characters was nearly perfect, the story was perfect, this is my favorite arc in the comics. I like how they weren't afraid to play around with the fact that the main cast was married with kids, I think they handled it great to where its still good and not cringe inducing like a sonamy fanfic or something. Also use the satam writers too. 2. Introduce the freedom fighters that are owned by Sega into the games (this one is a personal idea) I think sonic should have the cast from satam, they chemistry everyone had worked, well except for tails cuz in satam he was left behind so fix that. This group is like the justice league and i feel the game's cast doesnt mesh that well together. For Example, Sonic and amy dont work as a duo to me. Its literally how naruto and sasuke as one character and being partnered as a duo to fight in a nutshell. But if you add the cast of satam i feel the cast would mesh better. (look i really just dont wanna let go of the freedom fighters i grew up watching the cartoon on netflix and watching comic dubs of archie sonic.) 3. Merge The Gameplay Of Sonic Unleashed, The Infinity Engine, Sonic Utopia, And Sonic Generations Into One. I think these games have the best gameplay. The boost can work if executed and used properly. But add momentum to it as well like you said 4. Define who sonic is. Basically bring back sonic of the 90s into the modern world if he could talk. (personally opinion, I want Jason back!) 5. Dont be afraid to give the characters depth. This means allow loss like death or roboticized characters, allow characters to cry and show emotion, give the characters backstories. For example, Sonic & Sally's backstory is great in satam, They were friends since they were 5 and their families work clsoe together. When eggman took over the both ran away to knothole with the other kids and worked and train so they could one day take back the world. I like that, They agve characters families, Like sonic had parents and a dog. this gave characters depth, loss and tragedy help the characters grow. 6. Get rid of Amy Rose (personal opinion) I'm telling you Amy Rose is sakura from naruto but just isn't important, shes annoying and overly obssessive which influences one third of the damn fanbase which are amy rose/sonamy fanbrats, its literally one third of the franchise because amy and sonamy is everywhere like i swear i hate amy so much its not funny. She's the reason there are people like TrueLoveCunt94 (Actually trueloveheart94) who send death threats to the voice actors and writers about sonamy not being official or amy not going any attention or make fun of people with cancer or with fam who had cancer, and its annoying as hell it sometimes make me regret being a sonic fan because of cunts like these and others in different parts of the fanbase then people of the comics and satam like me get attacked and harrassed and bully because they are mad that sonic and sally is canon and its official while sonamy only exists in their perverted furry hentai wet dreams, not all amy fans are like this my brother and sister perfers amy over sally but they are not toxic like people who are damn 21 who throws temper tantrums with minds of sperm cells. 7. Get rid of characters that are just there (personal opinion). This includes characters like big, or cream they dont do anything for the story that impacts it and carries on into other games like for example shadow's carried over to heroes, and it carried over to 06 which brings me to my next point.... 8. have continuity, let the past games have some sort of effect on the next games big or small, for example in generations, sonic talked about saving aliens and rescuing genies thats a reference to the storybook games and colors, little references like that makes a big deal it shows that those events happen that there is continuity and there is a timeline. 9. allow relationships. If you get good writers, you can execute relationships well like ian flynn and the satam writers they did sonic and sally down to a tea. Relationships can be done correctly if you get good people to do it and execute it well Basically im just asking for the modern games and sonic utopia and my personal ideas and opinions as well as the post super genesis waves archie comics universe to mesh into one that's all i want and i think it could possibly be the best decision to help the franchise alot back to glory (minus my personal opinions except maybe the freedom fighters and amy rose/sonamy/fanbase opinions) But what do you think TelekinesticMan?

[@OfTheStars24]

Its Not Rushed, Its Forced.

[@telekinesticman]

Oh my gaaaaaaawd.

[@yolomationanimation9784]

Sonic forces Sega to make more edge! Jk, I don't really care.

[@skyblade7438]

Did you write the dialouge for Sonic Colours?

[@OfTheStars24]

Crap You Found Out! No CopyRight Law Is Going To Stop Me!!!!!!!

[@solstice003]

Edwin Villafana and yet it took about 4 or more years to make? Is that all they can do in that time?

[@RadicalSoda]

Very solid video. Some really, really good points were made here.

[@datdamnmegabusta5604]

Give me Poppy, daddy.

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you very much! Glad to see you enjoyed it.

[@yolomationanimation9784]

Hey! *IT'S BOWSAH!*

[@ThoughtBubbles909]

Wait a minute, this isn't Radical Soda at all. It's just..... Grand Metropolis again!

[@TheLu3]

RadicalSoda how's being haunted by Sayori?

[@tearlach47]

Wait, so, you're telling me that in 2017 MARIO can roll better than Sonic can? That Mario was able to get rolling physics and actually use momentum before 3D Sonic? What a time to be alive.

[@yourfriendlyneighbohoodpiz7683]

Sean Wilson Actually, 3D Sonic did the rolling physics and momentum first, it was with Sonic Adventure. He just hasn’t had momentum since then. It’s still fucking ridiculous, I know, but I’m just saying, 3D Mario definitely didn’t do rolling physics before 3D Sonic.

[@someoneyoudontknow3257]

Your Friendly Neighbohood Pizza Time That just makes it even more embarrassing that Mario can "roll around at the speed of sound" more authentically than Sonic.

[@Rex67Diego9]

he said better not first

[@yourfriendlyneighbohoodpiz7683]

Rex67Diego9 fandub I know that, but he also said that Mario was able to get slope and momentum physics correct before 3D Sonic did, which is wrong because like I said, Sonic Adventure exists.

[@someoneyoudontknow3257]

Your Friendly Neighbohood Pizza Time rolling physics weren't "right" in sonic adventure. Turn on your Dreamcast and check it out you must have forgotten.

[@SrslyFunny]

"I miss Ryan Drummond." We all do, good sir. We all do.

[@dayveed9494]

Me too. It's also a shame that since SEGA is cheap and lazy, Ryan will most likely never get to voice Sonic ever again.

[@skyblade7438]

Would have we been saying that before Sonic Colours, though? How fickle Sonic fans can be.

[@jeremyknight9980]

...I don't. would you really want Drummond to come back and be annoying and cringy due to the way Sonic is written these days?.

[@dayveed9494]

Jeremy Knight Personally, I'm just glad he wasn't in Sonic Boom. Also, Like TelekinesticMan said, Ian Flynn should write Sonic these days.

[@Kuzamer]

@@skyblade7438 I would. I've been saying it for years. Lol.

[@5persondude]

Its very depressing just how horribly mis-managed and blatantly disrespected Sonic is as a series by both Sega and Sonic Team. With great videos like these, its no secret that there are still tons of people who care about Sonic a great deal despite the flops over the past 25 years... and yet Sega *_still_* treats their flagship mascot like a worthless pawn by rushing out these terrible games made by people who don't have the understanding or confidence to make a good Sonic game I used to be the one who would try to stick up for Sonic, to an extent. I enjoyed most of the games for what they're worth, watched through both Sonic X and Sonic Boom, and I (used to) give Sonic Team the benefit of the doubt and keep an open mind about what was next for 3D Sonic. But Sonic Forces was a real eye-opener for me, and represents everything that is wrong with the series today. Not just based on the game itself, but the marketing, management, and development of Forces show the way to another dark age of bad Sonic games, unless something drastic is done. Like i said, I used to just enjoy most of the games for what they're worth despite criticisms, however after Sonic Forces turned out to be such a mediocre, uninspired, lazy cash-grab, i now realize that I need to be much more critical of the games, the way they're treated by developers and corporate higher-ups, and demand better, otherwise we'll just continue to get shit like Forces. These asswipes have clearly shown that they will give the minimal amount of effort possible if the fans are "Okay" with it or if its "Average", which is not what a franchise like Sonic deserves. Sonic deserves better

[@sonicthehedgehog2214]

You hit the nail on the head. I don't know what it is, whether because Sonic Team are unmotivated, overworked, on tight deadlines, corporate interference, ... but the stuff they've been putting out is so hit or miss. And I'm tired of the age-old cop-outs, "Sonic Generations was good", "Sonic Colors was good" ... look, these games in and of themselves may have been good, and definitely above average compared to the rest of the franchise as of late, but Sonic isn't someone that needs just an above average game once in a while. Sonic could be the gaming icon he once was, one that could back in the day actually take on the likes of Nintendo and Mario, one that could have his face plastered everywhere, where toys are made after him and kids _beg_ their parents to get them one. And there is so much passion, so much care, so much _love_ in the Sonic fandom and community; the people who made Sonic Mania proved this by making what is, according to many people, the best Sonic game ever. And look at Green Hill Paradise - Act II, look at Sonic 2 HD, look at Sonic Utopia, look at the countless ROM hackers out there who learn M68k ASM and get into the nitty-gritty of the Genesis/Mega Drive games and create mind-boggling things. Seriously, look at MarkeyJester's The Next Level when you can, it even runs perfectly well on real hardware. I'm telling you, if Sega know what's good for them, they'll do what they did for Mania, both for future 2D releases as well as 3D ... hire people that are actually passionate about Sonic: the fans. If they do that properly, Sonic can once again become what he deserves to be.

[@itachisusanoo3689]

One thing worth mentioning is that Aaron webber did say in the latest stream that they have been reading reviews on forces since day one, and are passing feedback to the dev team (iirc)

[@inklingmario5974]

Great comment right here this is spot on what I've been thinking

[@jeremyknight9980]

Has "being more critical" even worked though?. FOrces isn't even the first Mediocre/Average game we've had. Lost WOrld, Heroes, Shadow to name a few are like that IMO and I'd throw FOrces in with those games. Most of the time when I see fans being "critical". it's people always crying and moaning about wanting SA3, wanting the old voice actors back, calling the developers names and attacking people for not disliking a game enough or liking a game they hate. even liking it a little and saying they are part of the problem. for some reason people think they should all have a hive mind when it comes to SOnic and that's not possible. We all like and dislike different things.

[@connieraya9393]

OKAY this is a good speech yet remember the fandom is a bunch of whiners who enjoy when mania is hated and TBH none of the fan base fans should be named "fans because they hate every Sonic game and it is a great example of the way they treat Sega and Sonic team OKAY we get it they "suck" but it's something that we do because we pressure the developers into giving the type of game we hate that you guessed it we influenced so the whole series of Sonic games is being hated on because we want a "PERFECT" game yet nothing is perfect and they "suck" because the fan base is full of haters look at '06 it has good gameplay good storylines and a good way to introduce a new character yet we hate on it because it has LOTS OF GLITCHES because we rushed it because we WANTED it yet we made it suck when we call it the worst game in history yet it's only GLITCHES when what makes a bad game is a bad story bad gameplay and terrible visuals you know what I'm saying 😠😠😠😠😠😤😤😤😤😤

[@lightskinsora6410]

Here's what an make 3D sonic games better: 1. Have literally NO 2D AT ALL. Leave that with Classic Sonic games since I guess there are 2 timelines now. 2. No more wisps. 3. Parkour but something that doesn't make you lose momentum like in Sonic Lost World. 4. No more boosting, and bring back the spindash from sonic adventure. 5. Good story line. 6. Make Sonic stop talking so much with annoying jokes and puns. 7. Bring back multiple characters but make them play almost the same with only a little difference. 8. Momentum 9. Amazing level design with nothing TOO linear except maybe the first level for a tutorial. 10. Classic Sonic doesn't appear at all except for maybe once in a blue moon for maybe generations 2 in like 10 years or so.

[@telekinesticman]

Sounds good to me! I would really like to see the parkour come back from Sonic Lost World but actually done right this time, I think it could make Sonic feel even more fluid than ever.

[@TheHorns1996]

What exactly do you want the story to be? Good is subjective.

[@telekinesticman]

For me, I'd want something with some consistency for once. The tone should never be any darker than what SA2 reached (probably not even as high in some places), but it also shouldn't be Colours/Lost World nonsense slapstick. Obviously having some humour is super good, but not easy "cheap" humour like that, especially when it conflicts with the tone.

[@hypercumstone44]

ZA WARUDO younds good to me!

[@s.boundless3163]

Awesome list. I completely agree with 6 and 7. Number 7 is something that Mario has gotten right. Everyone is Mario, but different. Mario but he can float, Mario but he has a higher more floaty jump, etc.

[@tearlach47]

One thing I loved about the team-based gameplay that Heroes established was the fact that you could more times than not choose which character of the team you want to play as at any given moment without completely feeling like the game is telling you "Use the power character, then use the flying character, then the speed character" in a bottleneck fashion. There are plenty of times where you can simply take a slightly different path. I also think the amount of variability between how characters handled was a very good representation of that balance of 'different from Sonic', but still high speed platforming, other than the fact that the flying and power characters are not as momentum focused, or at least theoretically, they wouldn't be.

[@someoneyoudontknow3257]

Sean Wilson It, like basically all 3D Sonic games just needed some more polish to get the physics and gameplay down. Polish is the biggest thing holding Sonic games back.

[@jamainegardner4193]

One of the worst parts about that mechanic in Heroes was that you can't switch in Mid air though.

[@BillDozer]

We need more people like you in this fanbase.

[@telekinesticman]

Why thank you. We need more people like most of those here in the comments who are kind and understanding to each other, as well. It would make the Sonic community such a better place.

[@BillDozer]

Yeah that's very true.

[@electrosphere5581]

I personally kinda disagree on your views with how tonally Sonic should be. For me,Sonic having a more darker tone compared to other mascot plataformers is one of the things that made the series so unique in the first place. Of course,cheeseness is granted,but that's just a way to show that the story doesn't take itself too seriosuly. Never had a problem with guns,or humans,since they appared (or implied to exist) in the classics. Cursing also was never a problem to me (light cursing of course) because it already appeared in Sonic media in the 90's (Sonic giving the finger to Metal Robotnik in Sonic OVA). I've also never saw a problem with the alien invasion in Shadow,since the series is a Sci-Fi as well,and alien invasions are a common trope in this genre. I see Sonic as more of a 80's chessy action movie to some extent,with some sweet over-the-top action,cheesy one-liners and some dark moments here and there with meaningful moments and charismatic characters to carry the story (imagine a "Escape from New York"-esque type of story but set in Sonic's world XD). And by that train of thought,my favorite stories in the series are the Adventures,the Storybook games and Unleashed. Artstyle-wise,I always envisioned the world of Sonic as a twisted vision of our reality. Some realistic settings like Capital City and the continents in Unleashed (except the Pixar-like humans. The more anime-like humans from Adventure are better in my opinion) mashed together with some more "fantastical" locations (Angel Island,Green Hill,Hidden Palace,the Mystic Ruins). Technology and fantasy mixed to make a more intreasting world. It's not as abstract as Mario's World. That's why I hate the artstyle of Sonic Mania,Sonic Colors and Lost World,they are so abstract and bizarre that I feel more in a licensed game for a cartoon (Mania) or a Mario like game (Colors and Lost World). In the end,altrough I disagree with you at some points,your video is pretty solid. I enjoyed it a lot. Great work my friend.

[@The_Natsu.]

I agree, except I don't mind it being "Lost world style" from time to time.

[@austinreed7343]

A Lovely Day Agreed.

[@louiepikmin3184]

I don't think guns and cursing are good for the franchise, but I agree with the darker tone thing.

[@Sarbell111111]

Bring Back Chao Garden to add more Playability!!

[@telekinesticman]

Damn, I COMPLETELY forgot to mention the Chao Garden. Good point! I would love to see it return in a more fleshed out way, as I did use to enjoy SA2's Chao Garden a lot.

[@SuperSonic68]

Thanks for the spotlight! Couldn't have made a better analysis myself. Well done.

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you! It's still so weird to me seeing you comment on here, I remember watching your "Sonic in Real Life" video for Sonic 4 wayyyy back.

[@SuperSonic68]

TelekinesticMan I wish you didn't remember...

[@yourfriendlyneighbohoodpiz7683]

SuperSonic68 Sup, loved GHP Act 2 man, I wish SEGA would follow a formula similar to yours.

[@toni0681]

@@SuperSonic68 nice bumper engine.

[@HedgeThatDamn]

You bring up alot of good points, I agree with everything you say. However, my first Sonic game was Sonic Adventure, to me Sonic Adventure defines who and what Sonic and his friends and what they're about. And I feel pre 2010 is the best they were represented most of the time, not just being reduced to saturday morning esque jokes and terrible writing. Would I like to see the Adventure gameplay return? Yes, dear god yes. Is Sonic Team gonna do it? Not with Iizuka leading Sonic Team. Sonic Forces was just such a bad disappointment and I saw this coming from a mile away, they should've delayed Mania to 2018 not to fix the game, not to give it more time, but to avoid the shit that's happened now. Sonic finally had a consistently good game and people realised that Sonic Team has no idea what the fanbase wants. 3D Sonic has in it's concept been bad since 2008, they keep using 2D as a crutch and and they won't fix 3D. Generations got damn close, Rooftop Run modern and Sky Sanctuary modern have some of the finest 3D level design in recent games but that got thrown out with Lost World and Forces. I liked Lost World, if the parkour system was worked on it could work wonders for secret paths and other routes adding to the exploration of stages while also maintaining momentum. There's just such a disconnect between Sonic Team and the fans and I can't help but blame Iizuka, as he's the one constantly awnsering these questions. Iizuka seems so disinterested in what fans actually want and what he gets thrown at him, it's not fair to solely blame him but if he keeps saying stupid shit like "We don't wanna make another Adventure title because it's pandering and won't bring the franchise forward" I can't help but call out how much of a hypocrite he is and how disinterested he seems in the franchise. The big thing is though, I do think if they decided to work on the Adventure style it could work, so far the only people I've seen defending Forces and the boost formula as a whole have been childeren. Who honestly don't know any better cause in their mind "it has Sonic in it, therefore it is good." ( A bit of generalization I know, but most discussions about Forces have ended with BUT I LIKE IT SO THEREFORE I AM RIGHT. Which is just such a kids way of justifing why a game is good.). Which leads me to believe that they could literally just move away from the boost with the Adventure formula and these same people would still love it. TL;DR: Salty fan just wants his Sonic back.

[@jamainegardner4193]

Seaside Hill was the best Generations level

[@tired.4549]

I don't think sa3 is a good idea. Like maybe saga forgot how to make an other playstyle, thus delaying or rushing it.

[@darkool]

100% agree with you.

[@destinylord7194]

Damien Busker no offense but if you think its Iizuka fault why recent sonic games have been bad then you clearly have no idea how game development

[@s.boundless3163]

I like SA1 and SA2 and it SA1 was my first Sonic game, but every since I've gotten a chance to play the original games and truly see what Sonic is about, I see SA1&2 differently. Imo they are the best of modern Sonic, but a lot of the gameplay styles shouldn't be there (fishing, robots, etc). I think they should change the formula for 3D Sonic. Similar to how Nintendo changed there Linear approach when they created the first 3D Mario. I think they should take the mechanics of Utopia and expand on it and make a complete Sonic game and stick to that style (we've seen how changing styles effect the fanbase). Utopia truly is a translation from 2D to 3D

[@angelsegasaturn]

I want Chao back, feels like they pretty much replaced Chao with the Wisps. If at least they could replace the Red Rings with Chao, now that's something I wouldn't bother searching.

[@elijahtoombs3524]

Angel XCX no

[@tired.4549]

Yes

[@villager1839]

Agree with you cuz i want to raise a chao in 2018 of a new sonic game

[@LYB4]

I WISH THERE WAS A CHAO GARDEN IN SONIC MANIA and i wish they removed the DRM

[@Rex67Diego9]

with the shit movement that sonic has in this games, it doesn't matter if they are chaos, red rings, chaos emeralds or whatever it will suck get rid of the boost first and then implement chaos

[@Mudkip971]

They could always to do HD remakes of Adventure 1 and 2 together with new voice acting. Basically like what Crash Bandicoot did.

[@telekinesticman]

I would only take new voice acting if they got Ryan Drummond back as Sonic, Kate Higgins back as Tails, and all of the other SA1/2 voice actors (although Mike Pollock would obviously need to be Eggman since Bristow passed away). If I heard the old Adventure scripts with Roger Craig Smith I would probably shoot myself. I dunno, it would just seem so off to me.

[@Mudkip971]

I disagree I think the entire modern voice cast would voice theme. however they would voice em in a way to "imitate" the old voice actors.

[@ddsjgvk]

Mudkip971 that shits hard to do. change your voice and try to sound like someone else. The Simpsons VAs can't even do it

[@Mudkip971]

It doesn't have to be perfect. Just imitating as much as possible.

[@sonicthehedgehog2214]

Interesting idea. What about an HD remake of the classic 2D games? Sonic 2 HD's demos look amazing. Gotta love those animations.

[@cubicflan]

In all sincerity, I hope Sonic Adventure 3 never happens. With Forces, Sonic Team have proven that they're no longer capable of implementing more than one playstyle without each element as a whole suffering a dip in quality for it.

[@dayveed9494]

CubicFlan To me, Sonic Heroes will always be Sonic Adventure 3 (Especially cuz Ryan Drummond's in it), so Sonic 06 might as well be Sonic Adventure 4.

[@yourfriendlyneighbohoodpiz7683]

CubicFlan Well, most of the Team DID consist of new people...

[@cubicflan]

Your Friendly Neighbohood Pizza Time New people should never be an excuse. Goldeneye for N64 was created by mostly new people. Many well known, praised Indies were made entirely by new people. Why does Sonic Team get a pass here?

[@yourfriendlyneighbohoodpiz7683]

CubicFlan I never said that they get a pass. And it’s a REASON, not an excuse, for why Forces is a step down in almost every department. I’m not trying to defend them by any means, in fact, I think it was a stupid move letting newbies take over, cause they have no experience with Sonic whatsoever.

[@DarkLink1996.]

You misunderstand. We don't want Sonic Adventure 3, we want *Sonic* Adventure 3. As in, just Sonic's gameplay style.

[@dayveed9494]

I don't wanna start any voice actor drama either, but it might be interesting to know that Ryan Drummond is 44 years old, while Roger Craig Smith is 42. As for Japanese voice acting, Jun'ichi Kanemaru, Sonic's Japanese VA, is 55 years old! That's 13 years OLDER than Roger, and yet, Jun'Ichi still sounds like a 15-year-old hedgehog!

[@PieStudios]

oWo

[@obeyabe8613]

My problem isnt about roger but the writers. If you compare the japanese version to the english translation, you could easily say that japanese is much better in terms of explaining the origins (lost world as an example). In forces knuckles mentions that sonic was tortured for 6 months but on the japanese version on the other hand, he never said it which explains why sonic looks mentally stable in the zavok fight.

[@blazefa519]

Roger still stands as my favorite of the Sonic voice actors, mainly how his voice is portrayed in Boom. For whatever reason, in Boom, his voice sounds more natural and in my opinion fits Sonic very well. But when it comes to the main games, the directors always give him the more nasaly voice and it's grating. I'm not sure if it's the director, the terrible writing, or both, but the clear difference between his performance in Boom and in the games is jarring.

[@obeyabe8613]

blazefan519 its the writing of pontac and graff. They admitted that they barely know sonic the hedgehog and had to look for past games in order to get a small idea of the character. The results, well look what happened to colors's story.

[@blazefa519]

Pontac definitely need to go. They're best story was Fire & Ice but even then the actually writers of Boom helped them with that game, so in all honesty they haven't written a good Sonic story at all. So, I'll just say to hire Ian Flynn like everyone else does. He knows the characters and even did the writing for the prequel comics of Forces, which were pretty good. We're this close to him becoming an actual writer but Sega just doesn't want to take that leap for some reason.

[@mr.noonlight8048]

21:47 Number Seven Bring back the Chao garden.

[@telekinesticman]

For sure, I can't believe I forgot to mention it.

[@Luvumba]

On the homing attack complaint: I feel this is a bit invalid. Why would you retain momentum for it? That would cause an entirely different issue on the game if that were the case. Homing attack can be a problem when it comes to homing attack chains but it would cause players to fall into pits or have failings. Homing attack for the games like Sonic Unleashed didn't need them for how the level design was mapped out. If you've played more of the game, it's the balloons that give you momentum, not enemies(also it doesn't kill your momentum like the game comes to a grinding halt but I know what you entail. It's incredibly fast and you can easily boost right afterwards). Further more, there is plenty of experimentation with the homing attack because of the inherent range and versatility(Look at Chun Nan act 1 on the later half of the game when the platforming segement came about). At least, with Sonic Unleashed it's more open at times on the use of it. Unleashed in general is more open in terms of mechanics and physics. Generations nerfs everything about it that made it more interesting to play around with. The video is fine but neither of the youtubers you listed did a good job on the breakdown of the boost games, especially games like Unleashed. Granted, I have no problem with them disliking either games. All boost games follow a different philosophy in design. Sorry for a bit of a rant(not really against you) but this is a huge misplacement on the games and you can't look at them as the same game just because it has the same mechanics(they sorta don't). EDIT: Granted, homing attack should have two phases. One for stopping you in your place and another for keeping up your momentum. Both can be used for in-depth effect.

[@datdamnmegabusta5604]

I love you. Please, inform me of your most ideal Sonic experience.

[@telekinesticman]

I think that idea of having two different forms of homing attack is a good idea. My thing on the chains and stuff, I think that wouldn't be a problem if the game was designed with momentum in mind, because they wouldn't have designed the stages with that momentum-halting movement. The flow present in bouncing back up from an enemy or spring while retaining momentum (basically a badnik bounce from the classics) is so exhilarating and free that I would love to see it properly implemented. But yeah, having two different types of homing attack is actually a really good idea!

[@Luvumba]

I agree. It's satisfying to do that in the classics but they did end up bringing it back somewhat in Unleashed through Generations(more so Colors and Unleashed). It's just sorta sparse throughout the game compared tot he classics. I highly advise you to watch speed runs of Unleashed to see what I mean about how Homing Attack is actually quite creative in it's design.

[@telekinesticman]

Oh yeah look, I don't DESPISE the current form of the Homing Attack, but after playing GHP2 and Utopia, I realised how much more I enjoyed the fluid feeling of that type of movement system. Again, your idea of combining the two is a really good one, it could even be a "Homing Attack" or "Homing Kick" situation like with Lost World, which would be interesting.

[@jamainegardner4193]

Wait hold on, were you guys talking about having two different homing attacks? I personally would see that as the best solution as you can use both in different ways for different situations and not have to deal with the problems of either. Or you could do have there be a feature where while you're homing in on an enemy if you hold the jump button before you hit you change to momentum based or stop.

[@benbaez6044]

I really appreciate your input on Sonic's future. And those videos you pointed to were awesome too! Your definition of what Sonic means to you was absolutely perfect (imo). I just wish they gave Eggman more lines! Like, those PA announcements from Sonic Colors were purely spectacular. Thank you so much for this overview! And my personal opinion is that I wish there'd be ONE more boost formula game, but this time, they do it right. Sonic Team's biggest mistake was taking the platforming out of Forces, leaving all that to the 2D Modern sections, which didn't work. And Classic and OC kinda don't count (for this conversation at least). If Sonic team did something more like, oh, I don't know, Sonic Unleashed's Windmill Isle, I would consider it the perfect game. Plenty of hidden paths, shortcuts, and secrets to satisfy any explorers, while still having a flashy main route for the slower beginners. All that to say, though, that this video has got me thinking about the big questions that Sonic Team needs to answer in their own way, and that leaves us open to predict their next move. Holy paragraphs, Batman, this went on far too long. TL;DR This video's great, the other videos are great, blah blah personal opinion stuff, thanks for this video!

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you very much for the kind words! Very happy to see so many people enjoying this one.

[@victorhenriquedebritookaga2369]

Pretty good definitions of the sonic formula... guess we need to pass this ideas to the japanese fanbase in order to reach sega hahaha.

[@FengTheSlayer]

Why not the next sonic game have a mix of adventures and boost where it transitions the two back and forth when playing a certain level along with having a boss fight in every 2 or 3 acts. Also we can have tails and knuckles being optional to play as but have their gameplay styles slightly change so that the characters won’t be to OP when in a 3D level

[@ElizabethBathog]

Like in Sonic 06 where we had the speed sections but instead gets boost sections... If done right that can work!

[@telekinesticman]

Hm, thats an interesting idea. I think Sonic Team needs to stop relying on these split gameplay styles, though. Look at Day Sonic/Werehog, Modern/Classic, Modern/Classic/Avatar, it's just become too much of a crutch and is getting closer and closer to the problem with SA1 having too many different gameplay styles.

[@ElizabethBathog]

True. I admit that I didn't mind Amy in SA1. Find it funny to use her hammer at the robot that is casing her but Big the cat was boring. I been replaying that game resently ha ha XD

[@FengTheSlayer]

TelekinesticMan when I mean both adventures and boosts transitioning I mean in the middle of playing the level that by transition

[@The_Natsu.]

I think more people would like Modern/Adventure/Avatar more than Modern/Classic/Avatar/, especially if they can get it to flow as one rather than level to level. As they guy tries to put it.

[@thetruej7872]

Here's what I think of a good Modern Sonic game: *Good story *Good graphics *CGI cutscenes *Cool cutscenes & dialogue *Great soundtrack *Awesome Level Design *Multiple pathways *Good controls *Boost or Adventure gameplay *Multiple playable characters *No reused stages or bosses *ALL original stages *Hub worlds (Unleashed styled) *Hint Rings that doesn't stop you *Unlockables (Extra Stages, Artwork, Music, etc.) *Chaos Emeralds (plot device or unlockable) *Red Rings or Emblems *Chao Garden (optional)

[@DeeMaurice231]

Jalen Payton agreed 100%

[@thetruej7872]

D' Anthony Walker thanks

[@LucasMBoysOurRoy]

So pretty much Unleashed with a Chao Garden. I approve.

[@thetruej7872]

Lucas M Yeah. I just thought of something. It would be cool if Sonic Team made a type of system or mode to choose the different type of boost you want. Either the Boost 2 Win (Ring Energy) or Boost 2 Earn (Wisp Energy).

[@DeeMaurice231]

yea that need to happen

[@Invader9Productions]

I hated Forces with a burning passion, I seriously hope whatever is next is an improvement.

[@mbdg6810]

did you hate the game because of how medicore it was?

[@davilionnoilivad7274]

I actually liked it.

[@r3n3gad33]

Invader 9 Productions It wasn't THAT bad.

[@electrosphere5581]

It's worse than '06 in my opinion

[@r3n3gad33]

AI Colonel The Question of The Year: HOW?

[@doraeguyakaneddie6586]

Maybe sega can pull a mania and hire the developers of sonic utopia and get them to make a 3d classic sonic game

[@telekinesticman]

I have thought about that a lot. To at least talk with those devs and use them as support would be good enough for me, but seeing them help to make a new game would be awesome as well, but a lot riskier than something like Mania, which was working with an established formula.

[@obeyabe8613]

TelekinesticMan they should re hire naka as producer. At least he knows what is a sonic.

[@obeyabe8613]

Hollys Anaele Oops I meant that Naka should comeback for one last good sonic game

[@bluecorp8557]

Yes! I agree with every opinion you said. Ryan Drummond or Jason Griffith as Sonic with Ian Flynn's writing would be amazing.

[@telekinesticman]

Ryan Drummond is my MAN. I miss his voice so much. Can't stand constipated Roger Sonic.

[@tendofan]

Fun fact; I was introduced to Sonic through Sonic X, and my first Sonic game was actually Sonic Rush Adventure. Just a fun fact.

[@evinmcgowan300]

WOW! This video completely describes how I feel/ have felt about the design of Sonic games for so long. The biggest thing I've felt Sonic was truly missing was consistent "CONTINUITY" and proper "WORLD BUILDING". I feel like them not having a proper continuous world to fall back on has created a crazy domino effect that has led to so many other bad things, like poor writing and shabby characterization. One of the big reasons why I feel Mania's levels were so cool and fun was because they were fueled with really fun and cool ideas, like Press Garden. I mean c'mon, one glance and you can see the story of Press Garden through it's level design and background instantly, with the newspapers and trees and everything. You can also see it with the revamped ACT 2 parts in stages too like Chemical Plant with how the take the weird Chemical aesthetics and let it fuel the mechanics of the Stage for something even more incredible. That's one of the key missing pieces of the Sonic game puzzle that they need to fix. Thanks for the great video dude!

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you for the kind words! Glad you enjoyed it, and it's great to see this video has resonated with a lot of other fans.

[@pan_bacchanal]

Gosh, you nailed most of the points I've been thinking obsessively for such long time! Thank for good video

[@telekinesticman]

No problem! Thanks for the kind words!

[@LuisSanchez-yv4ct]

You pretty much nailed it with you description on what tonally and gameplay wise the franchise should be, holy shit

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you very much!

[@jamietaljaard]

your channel is MY critical darling

[@telekinesticman]

Further proof that you are the REAL Telekinestic Fan. Don't ever change.

[@theamazinggamers9914]

TelekinesticMan I thought I was :-(

[@telekinesticman]

Nah, Jamie's got the advantage, unfortunately. She quotes the cringiest lines of my videos back to me while she watches them so she's got everyone beat.

[@imageworks03]

TelekinesticMan I want to be in a Sonic Game!!!!!

[@telekinesticman]

Congratulations. Play Sonic Forces.

[@help9320]

Thank you so much for making this video! you earned a new subscriber.

[@patthemat7134]

Sega should hire the people who made sonic utopia

[@jamainegardner4193]

and also the people behind Green Hill paradise. Hopefully they would cooperate and use the strengths of each

[@TheDen-ec9xe]

With that ugly ass art design ? Noooo thank you. Also, there's a dire need of setpieces and stuff, being it Speed Shoes, Elemental Shields, boost pads (just cleverly placed, not spammed everywhere like Forces), springs, the directional cannon thingies from Unleashed and Generations (done in 3D), orange and Rainbow rings. Catch my drift ?

[@spankypants2793]

And then what? It's not like they would immediately be put in such power that they would make a sonic game similar to utopia. Besides, I don't think sega would publish a game with an engine as flawed as utopia's.

[@dayveed9494]

Speaking of Sonic Utopia, It would also be interesting if Utopia used pre-existing voice clips of Ryan Drummond from SA1, SA2, and Heroes.

[@theinkslicer]

Spanky Pants Sega hired fans for maina Utopia would be no different.

[@TheT3rr0rMask]

Can see where they feel pressured to try something new each time- it's a gaming community that hates yearly franchises they don't even play for being similar gameplay wise. Not saying I disagree though- I think the writing and art has been cringey as fuck and they're aiming way too much at kids. Sure it's a "kids" game, but look at the Mario games: a "kids" game but whenever a new one comes out EVERYONE plays them and loves them, even mainstream non-gamers who wouldn't be caught dead playing a kids game. You see the love, care and creativity that makes Mario games so appealing, but Sonic feels like an awful Cartoon Network show now. Compare a bad cartoon to a Miyazaki film and you have modern Sonic vs old Sonic or non-CDI Mario

[@telekinesticman]

Yeah, your comparison to Mario is very appropriate. There's a difference to being good for kids and just being lazy. I love cartoons like Gravity Falls and the early seasons of Spongebob because while they are "kids shows", they actually try to be entertaining to someone older with a critical mind. I don't think it's that hard for Sonic to do that, especially since it was accomplished in the comics under Ian Flynn's hand, and in a few of the games (Unleashed/Black Knight have fairly good writing and a nice tone, most of the time).

[@manuelalbertoromero9528]

I do have to wonder why they haven't simply hired Ian to write the stories though, given his reputation. Can anyone guess why they simply didn't do that long ago?

[@TheT3rr0rMask]

Spongebob is also a great comparison: Old Spongebob is old Sonic, modern Spongebob is modern Sonic. Good, smart and clever vs plain stupid

[@TerrorOfTalos]

Obscure Media But spongebob actually got good again though, can't say the same for sonic

[@NikkoThePerson]

I see the biggest problem with modern Sonic being that you JUST go fast. In the classic games, you went fast because of the momentum and the mastery of it.

[@telekinesticman]

Agreed!

[@Rythaze]

Really great video! I agree with a lot of your points, and like your idea of Sonic. Nice job!

[@thedoctordb5765]

I'm a newcomer but you said it all brilliantly (especially about Sonic 3&K being such a masterpiece). May give those other channels and the rest of yours a look, too. Interesting stuff to delve into and analyze. I played Forces for like an hour, just waiting for something to change. But the story was moving along at lightspeed when I hadn't actually done anything yet. I stopped, looked it up online, and was quite disappointed to learn that the entire game was like that, and I was already one-third of the way through it! I never did play Sonic '06 as I didn't have a compatible system, but I assume the whole "make SA3" thing is still going strong (though I agree 06 WAS SA3 from the looks of it) is because even if they don't understand why, people still recognize the fact that those games (the Adventure era) were still the closest we got to what 3-D Sonic should be. From SA2 to 06 and Generations, I always assumed the anniversary title would be Sonic Team's best effort. That's what gets me the most about Forces. It came out a year after the fact, but was meant to be the next 3-D Sonic anniversary installment. How could THAT be the final product? It played like an early storyboard for game that could've been. With the original trailer for this game, I thought we'd be getting Generations-style gameplay with a return to Sonic Team actually caring about the tone and story of the game. Just can't fathom what they were thinking, and really wish I knew. Seriously, though, did I miss something as far as a motive for that avatar thing? Why was that even implemented? Just crazy how "more of the same" with modern improvements is never a possibility for this franchise. I enjoyed playing almost every main franchise installment of Sonic, though until recently when I started watching similar videos I never really thought about what the newer ones (post-Gamecube) were missing. But even so, the Wii games were still fun. Maybe constantly changing the formula IS part of Sonic Team's agenda for this franchise, but when Nintendo consistently proves people can be happy with more of the same (i.e. Pokemon) it makes no sense why they never seem to want to even keep the GOOD aspects that they create. Well it's late and I'm not even sure what I'm saying anymore. Tl;dr Great video. Forces sucks. It's a shame.

[@jeremyknight9980]

They made the Avatar because Sonic Team is aware of the millions of SOnic OCs online and fans wanted to create fan characters in a Sonic game.

[@Itz_Jello]

Now I just feel bad cos Sonic Frontiers isn’t what you asked for WHATSOEVER besides the writing and wisps requests

[@rubinmuttoriginal7444]

Idk, looks like he got his other wish for getting new playable characters coming in 2023.

[@nunterhing]

nice mate im in the 3%

[@telekinesticman]

You must be one of the truly EPIC Telekinestic FANS!!!! Congratulations my friend.

[@samiral-tabatabaie164]

What struck me so well about Utopia was how homing attacking enemies was actually encouraged by how you DON’T lose momentum and can in fact gain it by striking them. It’s just one of the reasons why it’s so great. I really hope we get mechanics like this in future games...

[@WTSD850]

The thing tough is is that this just seems more like that experimentation you were talking about if sonic team want to make a proper sonic utopia game than they have to do by slowly improving they're own games, and adding a few of those sonic utopia concepts at time over the course of multiple games so they can learn to implement them properly and use them to make a good games that aren't a bunch of glitchy messes

[@ZechOfTheWest]

I think the Adventure Formula could work again, more explorative level design with more ground and less void, lock on for the homing attack, (because i like knowing who im attacking), momentum physics. And if we have multiple characters, let them play similarly to sonic, but with unique skills. Basically, Knuckles climbing, Tails flying, and they may as well add in optional collectables that can only be found depending on the character you use. Eg. Climb a wall with knuckles to find an Emblem or something. Dont make the levels different for each character, basically how Mania did it (With the exception of 2 Knuckles exclusive parts). Better writing. Yeah it could work.

[@telekinesticman]

Yeah, that's how I feel for sure, and I think that's similar to how I outlined it in the video. I think this design for Sonic could really go somewhere if they tried hard enough with it.

[@teriquesoldiew2054]

I agree. Sonic Speeding and Curling, Tails Flying, Knuckles Gliding and Climbing, Amy Speed and Hammer moves, Espio Speed, Ninja Moves, and Camouflage, Shadow Speed and Chaos Powers, Blaze Speed and Fire Powers. Plus they should use moves that animals use in real life, like with Sonic curling. Examples Spin Dash X (Standing Still) Everybody* Spin Attack X (While Running) Everybody* Sonic Drop Dash A + X Homing Attack/Jump Dash A + A Somersault B (Sonic Adventure 2) Flying Kick Y (Sonic Heroes) Tails Propeller Dash A + X (His equivalent to the Jump Dash) Propeller Flying A + A Cyclone B Tornado Attack (Sonic Advance 3 partner is Knuckles) Knuckles Spiral Upper A + X (Sonic Advance 2) Glide (Climb) A + A Dash Punch B (Sonic Heroes) Spiral Attack Y (Sonic Advance 2) Amy Mid Hammer Jump A + X Hammer Attack A + A Hammer Swing B Hammer Flip Y (Sonic Advance. Used to get higher in the air or gain more speed) Shadow Teleport A + X Chaos Snap A + A (Sonic 06) Chaos Attack B (Have him cloak himself with Chaos Energy while running) Chaos Spear Y Blaze Comet Dash A + X (Her equivalent to the Drop Dash) Fire Claw/Hover Burst A + A (Her equivalent to the Homing Attack/Jump Dash) Fire Attack B (Same like Shadow just with fire) Fire Ball Y Espio Camouflage A + X Kunai/Wall Dash A + A Shuriken B (Sonic Heroes) Shuriken Bombs Y Vector Hammer Down A + X (Sonic Heroes) Spin Roll A + A (The roll Crocodiles or Alligators use in the water after grabbing their prey) Crunch B Head Slide Y Charmie Bee Buzz Saw A + X (Similar to Insta-Shield but he uses his stinger while spinning to extend his range) Flight A + A Sting Attack B Dash Y (Knuckles Chaotix) Big Drop Roll A + X (Similar to a Spin Attack but from the air) Body Press A + A (Sonic Heroes) Palm Trust B (Like the pokemon from the 2nd gym in Hoenn) Belly Ram Y (Like a sumo wrestler rushing you with their belly) Silver Levitate Dash A + X Levitate A + A Smash B (Pushes the enemy or crushes them) Collide Y (Smash enemies into each other) Telekinesis Mode Z (Grabs with B, Tosses with Y) Tikal Intangible A + X Float up A + A (Sonic Runners) Palm Press B (Pushes her energy into robots and damages them) Phase Y (Passes through walls, obstacles, and robots while pushes her energy into them) Omega Boosters A + X Hover A + A Arm Hook B (Sonic Heroes) Scatter Shot Y (Sonic 06)

[@supasyndrogod1126]

i love Forces, its a great game with a great idea. what i think is next is another sonic rpg game only for switch and possibly 3ds, and i WOULD like to have another character creation, along with the rpg style mix of Dragon Ball Fusions and a Pokemon game. wouldn't that be AWESOME?

[@obeyabe8613]

Supersonic456 I wish the avatar comes back tbh. Its probably the best thing of forces

[@telekinesticman]

Honestly I would like to see another shot at a Sonic RPG. Chronicles was abysmal, but if they actually try for once, and get Ian Flynn, I think they could make a fun little spin-off game with the Sonic cast.

[@MrBoellemissen]

Finally someone who also loves forces!

[@supasyndrogod1126]

well, looks like im not the only who loves Forces :D

[@pablodelatorregalvez4260]

Really good video, the Sonic Team should watch this before starting to work on the next Sonic game.

[@GenEricStudios05]

You know, my first Sonic Game was Unleashed for the Wii, and even though I was 4, I felt like I completely understood what the Games’ main theme “Endless Possibilities” was all about, and it was touching

[@K0ldd3]

I prefer them update/advance the adventure formula instead of going with the utopia gameplay. I mean the controls and level design in the adventure games where fine, just the camera, physics and overusement of dash panels/automation where annoying and buggy. Also #BringRyanDrummondBack ^^

[@telekinesticman]

I think combining the SA1 + SA2 + Utopia styles of Sonic's controls and design could lead to a really great 3D game. And yes, Ryan Drummond is my boy.

[@TheGag96]

This might be one of the best opinions ever written.

[@originalgamer4002]

Sonic utopia is good, but sonic shouldn't be too open world. Even the classics had always a set path.

[@telekinesticman]

Utopia isn't what I would call "open world", but I know what you mean. The devs have mentioned that since it's just one stage for a beta "tech demo" sort of thing, the level is much more of an open playground. When the game becomes a full stage-to-stage experience, the levels will be built more for tailored paths and the like.

[@originalgamer4002]

TelekinesticMan If the next sonic game would be like SA1, but with just high speed platform like the sonic and tails stages and a coherent story then we got ourselves a pretty solid game. Sucks how sonic team will just find a way to fuck everything up...

[@ddsjgvk]

TelekinesticMan but they should keep that open playground, I get bored going to the gole ring all the time i want to explore as sonic

[@TheDen-ec9xe]

The biggest complaints I have with Utopia are the ugly art design and how barren and devoid of interesting setpieces it is.

[@blackpants7385]

MisfitOnTheStreets "Ugly"? Well, you do you.

[@screm2067]

This says everything about the Sonic franchise better than I ever could.

[@inklingmario5974]

I like this video alot good work on this man

[@LucasMBoysOurRoy]

I just want a good 3D Sonic game for once. I think it's best that they drop the boost formula for now. Unleashed was a masterpiece, but it got worse in Colors. Gens was okay, but Forces is just bad. I would like to see the adventure formula make a return. Another Lost World style game would be great if they could get good level designers. If they do make another boost game, I want no 2D sections, open level design, and NO CLASSIC SONIC. Also, #BringBackGriffith

[@robertwyatt3912]

I don't think bringing back the adventure formula is a good idea. Now Sonic's playstyle in the adventure formula on the other hand...

[@telekinesticman]

The Lost World style has potential provided they GREATLY overhaul it. I really would like to see the wall-running parkour stuff come back, there is SO much they could do with it.

[@TheHorns1996]

I'd love the Adventure formula but with Utopia's level design and momentum. It'd also be cool where instead of Wisps or Boost, the "gimmick" would be a mechanic similar to Chaos Control from Shadow the Hedgehog mixed with Batman Arkham Knight's Fear Takedowns, where when the gauge is full, you could "stop time" (which represents Sonic going so fast, that time feels slow around him) and kill dozens of enemies in a row in seconds with the right timing and coordination.

[@DarkfoX9001]

Flesh out the gameplay of Utopia, combine it with the general feel, mechanics, and style of Mania/3 and Knuckles, and sprinkle a little of Sonic's portions from Adventure 1/2 and i think we have a winner

[@telekinesticman]

Sounds like a good step in the right direction for me!

[@BigR505]

Once again, great job. I honestly agree with KZbinrs like SomecallmeJohnny in saying give the Adventure formula a try again (with some elements of Sonic Utopia). Again great job. You're probably my second favorite KZbinr right now. Keep it up

[@mbdg6810]

nice analysis dude i really didn't think i disagreed with anything except what you considered gimmicks like the custom hero but the comparisons of 3d sonic to utopia really shows you know how sonic should be and why sega needs to stick to one thing and make 3d sonic a bit better. great job !!!

[@paulwebb2078]

Come on, the Avatar was cool.

[@telekinesticman]

There are IDEAS about the avatar that are cool. But the execution is lacking, and I would have preferred if it wasn't a furry OC and more of a "build your own Metal Sonic" kind of thing, where you could attach different weapons or parts to him to give him different powers. It would fit more with the established tone and aesthetics of the series, and wouldn't clash against the Sonic designs like the Avatar and other generic NPCs do in Forces.

[@robertwyatt3912]

I wish it was in a better game ):

[@shyguyrocks1]

@@telekinesticman Hmm, now what if that was used in a potential villain story like Eggman if they DID make another installment to the Adventure series? While playing as his robots has been done before, I think that'd be the most universally loved way of handling another Egghead story, and given SEGA loves to rehash things, that just might happen. Of course, we can't get our hopes up. This will turn out to be the one thing they don't rehash that has potential.

[@s.boundless3163]

Not in a Sonic game.

[@ryanl6037]

I disagree with you on the wisps, I feel like they were used to expand the levels and we're also used to to make the levels have alternate ways to reach the goal. plus they were mostly optional and tied to the ranking system, which i think colors had best of.

[@telekinesticman]

They've become a bit too gimmicky for me. I think the concept is neat in some areas, but I think the Wisps would work more as add-ons to Sonic's moveset (like Fireflowers, Cape Feathers and Yoshi in Super Mario World) then outright transformations that heavily limit the player's control. Hover for example, would be so much cooler if you still had normal control with Sonic, and could fluidly combine a spindash jump with a boost into the air with Hover to reach a high place.

[@austinreed7343]

ayyitsryan I miss when Colors had you able to unlock Wisps for more exploration. And when they had a real reason to be there. As of TSR, their last redeeming quality, the environmental messages, is gone.

[@sirterry2444]

THANK YOU!! The second I heard no more wisps I literally started giving an applause.

[@geoffreyrichards6079]

The ideal gameplay I have in mind for a 3D Sonic game is sort of a blend of the Classic/Adventure-style gameplay with some additions from recent games. The core gameplay would be similar to the "Adventure" games but spruced up a bit and having modern movesets like the sidestep maneuver, the sharp drifting, the wall-jumping technique, the ground-stomp and maybe combining the spin-dash with the boost. And if properly adjusted, maybe the parkour maneuvers from "Lost World" as well to help explore the level and find alternate pathways. An alternative would be having the main characters replace the Wisp power-ups (i.e. Tails > Hover, Knuckles > Drill, Amy > Frenzy, Espio > Spikes, Blaze > Burst, etc.). Also, the developers need to start taking the stories more seriously. I don't mean adding stuff that's dark and edgy, I mean a genuine story that is engaging and fun. None of this shallow joking-around excuse for a plot, I want an interesting story with memorable characters that you can relate to and a conflict that raises the stakes for them to overcome.

[@telekinesticman]

I completely agree! That sounds great.

[@kw-wf9uf]

Did you ever think that the core elements of Classic Sonic might not have to be part of Modern Sonic? Modern Sonic is his own thing, we don't want him to be Classic Sonic. Y'know, I expected a prediction on the future of Sonic, not 20 minutes of an incredibly strict wishlist and Modern Sonic hate.

[@devynamana]

a 3d sonic game, featuring classic sonic (since they already did away with modern sonic using any classic abilities) using utopia's fundamentals would be amazing and if they realy needed a boost, do what green hill paradise did! that was a really innovative way to do it and tie it into momentum

[@skyblade7438]

I reckon the Wisps might be useful in the future for exploration, especially the Cyan one.

[@ishade]

If anyone working for Sonic Team comes across any breakdown on what makes Sonic who he is, I REALLY hope this video is the main (if not the only) one they pay the most attention to and take advice from

[@1996MarioSonic]

You should send ur video to SEGA by email or tag the official sonic twitter or Facebook for them to watch it to understand what they should do cuz I agree with ur 6 reasons on what they should do for the next 3D sonic game

[@telekinesticman]

Haha, I dunno about that. Maybe Aaron Webber or someone will see this but I don't think this video alone will change their minds on anything. Thank you, though!

[@yourfriendlyneighbohoodpiz7683]

I’m a little late here, but Aaron did say yesterday, that they were hearing our criticisms for this game.

[@AhmedAhmed-fc8gh]

i know this isnt a 3d sonic game, but sonic rush also has a homing attack that lets you maintain momentum. just throwing this out.

[@brettjohnathan.7022]

You loose any sense of speed or flow anytime you use the homing attack Sonic dash: am I a joke to you?

[@autismandgaming4532]

all i want is a game that's not secret rings, OK!

[@datdamnmegabusta5604]

*Hands you Black Knight* Enjoy, boi.

[@FireBomberBassist]

I dont blame you for not buying Forces. Dont support mediocre.

[@telekinesticman]

Yep, that's my mentality as well. Thank you!

[@FireBomberBassist]

It's a Mii! i never said it wasn’t. Buy whatever you want.

[@ALMOSTNKKD]

My friends and I are working on something, where boost doesn't give you instant speed. It gives you a boost, yes, but rolling down hills while boosting will give incredible speed. And instead of boosting up hills, you lose your momentum and speed a little slower than you would running up normally. I would also like to have the spindash too in our little project. So really it'd be like if the Adventure and Boost Series had a baby.

[@Zachbane]

Good video essay. Got my sub.

[@mziz4435]

Silver the hedgehog game

[@thephantomist7199]

I have a prediction for what's next, but I don't like it. I predict that after Manias critical acclaim and Forces mixed (?) reception, I honestly think might Forces is the nail in the coffin for 3D Sonic, firing all of Sonic Team and putting Taxman and Stealth in charge of the series. Don't get me wrong I respect Sonic 1-3&K and *adore* Mania, but as someone who grew up and loves 3D Sonic, this possibility absolutely terrifies me. I hope with all my heart that this isn't the case but with all the Classics pandering in the past 7 years, I can't believe that this is impossible. Let's try and have a civilized conversation here folks. As for what I want? I like to think of myself as not a very picky person, so good to great games are all I can really ask for.

[@electrosphere5581]

Hollys Anaele Because Whitehead has a pathetic small vision for the series. And Sonic only making 2D games would prove to be tiresome and stagnating,making everyone stop caring about it,like with Megaman. Sonic Mania's nostalgic selling point will not work in the future,hell it might not even work in the next Classic Sonic game.

[@electrosphere5581]

Hollys Anaele Its not even the fault of Sonic Team,actually I think Sonic Team doesn't even exist anymore. It's just a symbol. The problem is with the higher ups at Sega probably,with their terrible staff management.

[@electrosphere5581]

Rooflesoft Games I rather see the series die than Whitehead taking control of it.

[@electrosphere5581]

Rooflesoft Games Yes it can. Not releasing anymore games. And Mania is a terribly overrated game. It's basically Generations 1.5 but only with Classic characters. But since nostalgia is the norm,everyone gobbled it up. Its a downgraded Sonic 3 & Knuckles. I don't want Whitehead to take control of the series. The guy is so small minded that I'm pretty sure the sequel to Mania will be no different from this. For me,Sega should just stop with the series for at least 5 years like with Crash Bandicoot and really take a look at it. Because do you really think Sonic will be able to hold his own with only 2D games that looks like ROM hacks? Of course not. And if everyone's worries are correct,Mania sold poorly,and thats a bad sign. It's time to stop looking at the past and look for the future.

[@electrosphere5581]

Hollys Anaele And Unleashed is considereted as inferior to '06 by the same critics. Whats your point? Ok then. Mania being great is just your opinion. There,negated your argument as well. See how easy it is? The Sonic fanbase is one of the most relativist fanbases I've seen lol. Inferior artstyle,inferior soundtrack,inferior story,inferior presentation,barely any cutscenes or character interactions,shitty villians,being full of selfish and pointless nostalgic fanservice that lost its magic in 2011. Mania IS a big downgrade from Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[@blueblurmilesprowers1187]

YO YOU SO RIGHT!! I just now realize somthing thats been missing from 3d sonic i notice, THR MOMENTUM!. I take momentum or boost any day!

[@indigorose6527]

I really like this video. It actually gets me hopeful for sonic's future. I also like your idea about gameplay. I don't know if you have heard, but recently a sonic engine called Sonic Infinity was unfortunately released early due to the programmer not being a fan of sonic. It has some cool ideas and i think you should check it out.

[@dt8269]

sonic dead lol

[@gamejitzu]

Of course if they were to make an "SA3" they would have to remaster Adventure's iconic mechanics, fixing those fundamental flaws you mentioned

[@DBK_Productions]

I’d also recommend Em Bani’s “ Adventure vs Boost. A Sonic Diatribe” For understanding what makes a good sonic game and the differences between the two formulas as well as their pros and cons

[@telekinesticman]

Yep, I've watched the entire thing before, it's a great video! I'll link it here in this comment for those interested - kzbin.info/www/bejne/p5qYhaJ8aN-BoJI

[@jamescole2550]

Everything you said here sounds amazing. In fact, so amazing, it’s actually making me angry sega isn’t doing this rn.

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you very much!

[@Rex67Diego9]

honestly, i think your video is good and i would put all this critical stuff you said from forces into generations aswell, the boost formula as a whole doesn't offer any depth is just go forward really fast, the control doesn't allow you to do anything else, even in the very cool level design generations offered, is just, go really fast and honestly i don't know what do you see so different between the OC and modern sonic, its quite literally the same control scheme, the OC is just sonic but without a boost and with a whispun

[@mattbelcher7135]

3d sonic needs to go back to the Adventure style. The Sonic rule is that Speed is a Reward not a gimmick. And I'm not saying that the boost games are bad but I feel like the Adventure games capture what made sonic so good in his 2d classics

[@Neoventus500]

Alright im sold. Im downloading sonic utopia.

[@benbaez6044]

How to keep people around for the outtro: Metallic Madness Act 2 works every time

[@telekinesticman]

That sweet, sexy saxophone does wonders.

[@ykgcaramel6515]

went to subscribe at the end of the video but then realised I subbed at the start

[@deadmemes8958]

They should try SA1 & SA2 remake

[@Grizzexploder]

What's even worse about Forces is not that it just "copied" Generations, it's that it "copied" Generations...while actually making it worse. Like, how is that even possible?

[@telekinesticman]

Exactly. If the core of it was still just as good, I wouldn't be complaining as much.

[@BlueBlaze99]

Won't Sonic Games become super old super fast if at least * some * new gimmicks aren't introduced into the series every once in a while though?

[@mbdg6810]

i definitely think sega should hire people that worked on these fangames or know how the adventure games work well and hire the writers you mentioned if sonic is going to improve on the aspects of series main games

[@jonahabenhaim1223]

18:50 I do like Treasure hunting and Mech stages from SA1 though. It shouldn’t be forced down to one’s throat if you wanted super sonic for a Future refrence.

[@genesi544]

Well, since we got a total chaos with identifying the target audience (as well as what is Sonic about), i think that we need to separate games on: a) retro-like games (Sonic Mania, as an example) b) games, that focused more on gameplay you mentioned (momentum platforming, exploration, etc), than on script (but script still needs to be solid and well-written) c) games, focused more on storytelling, but keeping the core of Sonic gameplay you mentioned d) experimental (games, that are completely different at point of gameplay, setting and tone) And after that games should be marked with respective labels what direction this game belongs, in order to be informed what kind of stuff to expect and not to be confused/ What do you think?

[@Driff97]

I just want Blaze back. Just, I don't even care if the game is as shallow as forces, buggy as 06, or as unfocused as Lost World. I just want to play Blaze in 3d again.

[@teryliuhoo5989]

This entire video is just good point after good point after good point. After playing Generations, mania, and robo blast 2 for the past year and a half, I feel that Sega REALLY needs to figure out what they need to do with 3d sonic in order to make a stellar game, and I think going back to the momentum idea that worked for the classics and especially mania is a great idea. and it can be done. If there are tons of game developers in the community that understand how sonic controls in 2d and how the mechanics can be transitioned to 3d, in addition to doing it on engines that are not even BUILT for sonic in mind, can’t sega replicate this on much powerful hardware? Or do they not want to try? Great video man.

[@liamleeyum]

This video needs more attention

[@VanguardSupreme]

You know, it's hard to find any two Sonic fans that agree on much let alone everything, but my god, this guy. This f*cking guy! "Sonic...used to always be about momentum," "Sonic "I still think 3 and Knuckles is the best Sonic game ever," "Rolling into a ball - you know, the entire reason Sonic is a hedgehog and one of his most defining traits as a character..." Wonderful video.

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you very much! Glad to see this video has brought along a bunch of like-minded fans who just want to see Sonic done right again.

[@EnjoyArtwork]

Luv this video. Dead on👌🏻 What a nightmare Sonic Team has been shovelling out the past 20+ years. 🤕

[@brad6546]

Colors’ writing was super dope!!

[@nintendomain4956]

Sonic 06: we have the wrost gameplay experience ever made Sonic colors: we made power up’s

[@butidontlikepaint7700]

You know what i hate the most, when you go into 3D sections all they usally are is half circle/Full circled areas.

[@conzillahh8363]

I agree with you on just about every point. It’s almost as if you read my mind. But there’s no chance that I’m the only one thinking this, so many people agree. If sonic team listened to this video and made a game based on what you said I think so many people would be happy. With the mania team handling 2D sonic, sonic team can focus solely on modern sonic and might finally be able to give 3D sonic a true identity

[@telekinesticman]

Thank you! I mean, I don't exactly want them using every little thing I said word for word without their own critical analysis and input or anything, but yeah, I think the concepts here could lead to something better than what we have right now. Thanks for the comment!

[@conzillahh8363]

TelekinesticMan no worries! Great video btw!

[@AggressiveSushi]

Heroes still remains my favorite sonic game then unleashed and adventure dx

[@luthfakashem21]

Man wisp were my favourite thing in any sonic game that had wisps

[@Herozonex200]

I haven't played sonic forces yet so I'm not sure what story is next after sonic forces. We just have to wait and see. Sega will say something

[@quillquail]

19:53 oml I cannot agree with that more just hearing that sentence made me giddy