What's the deal with Hydro?

[@celebalert5616]

Our friends used to hate this map due to our fearful memories of an incident called the 'hydro gremlins' incident

[@Cushla-np4pt]

this is probably the best comment

[@machomannco.4569]

Easy solution; equip beggar's bazooka, learn how to use it. Profit.

[@Pvinini]

@@machomannco.4569 AAAAA REFERENCE

[@luigiboi4244]

I would like to know the context behind these “Hydro-Gremlins”, please.

[@smoogs1841]

Please elaborate, I'm shaking.

[@WiiWarrior933]

I personally like hydro due to the fact that it's one of the few tf2 maps with a decent amount of water. Obviously, it's in the name but it's kinda suprising how little maps have water. especially since the Neon Annihilator exists.

[@Sypitz]

The mercs fight in the middle badlands of New Mexico. Makes sense why you don’t see much water

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

pier has more

[@WiiWarrior933]

@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 In total volume? yeah, however I'd say Hydro has more than or an equal amount of water in surface area. Plus no one goes into the water on pier, but on hydro it surrounds some control points, forcing players to go in it. Quality over quantity. Also The video is called "What's the deal with Hydro" not "What's the deal with Pier"

[@WiiWarrior933]

@@Sypitz Tf2 hasn't been set purely in Mexico for years, also just of the top of my head Snowycoast exists. "Snowy" coast. you know, the weather that usually doesn't happen in Mexico. Plus you can find water in the middle of Mexico, it doesn't have to be natural.

[@WiiWarrior933]

@Damsen Idk why you're talking about map viability I just like Hydro. I never said anything about balance.

[@greenoftreeblackofblue6625]

I really loved Hydro as a map for how strange it is. It's like they tried to make the Blu side generic because they don't know which side of the map will open up and want it balance. However when you get to red side it gets really specific with crawling through vents and into a underground part. It feels like they didn't know if they wanted to make the map balance or unique though I still love the map for these very same reasons.

[@asteroidrules]

Hydro has really strong visual design for such an early TF2 map. It's really nice looking, especially for something so old, which is why it appears with some frequency in TF2 animations both official and unofficial.

[@TinyDeskEngineer]

Hydro isn't the best map, but we need more maps based on hydroelectric power plants. _There isn't enough._

[@icewelder8117]

Powerhouse?

[@Syamfprch]

Phoenix is kinda hydroelectric powerplant based, on the last point

[@jblazerndrowzy]

@@icewelder8117He said more maps, as in more than just Hydro or Powerhouse

[@Helperbot-2000]

as a norwegian i officially approve this message 👍😎👍

[@yourmother-og7tr]

give us the Black Mesa Hydroelectric Dam map‼️

[@jcrosenkreuz5213]

So many parts of this map give me HL1 vibes. The vents and dam, the vertical sections, the rock faces, the narrow corridors, the security shed, the dish.

[@Whomobile]

Now that you mentioned it I can see it!

[@snackermantm105]

I think Hydro should have his halloween map version, but with a different gamemode, and it would probably be more playable, just like the rest of the player destructions maps in SF.

[@godusopp1797]

plr_hydro_event when?

[@mr.banana2370]

Actually hydro in slender fortress is one of the best maps for the custom slender fortress 2

[@00_TF2]

I always liked Hydro because of how expansive and detailed it was. Not for the TF2 gameplay itself, but rather SFM. There’s so many places on this map that you could imagine into cool little stories (the Dam entrance on RED, the tight corridors and vents on BLU, even THAT railing on the side of the map.) So much love and detail into a map, to me it represents what the TF2 art style and environment the story takes place in.

[@scantyer]

Conclusion, Hydro is god tier for movies but shit tier for gameplay

[@heavenandhello6629]

The newer maps have spoiled both of you. Hydro is full of wacky weirdness mainly because it was the very first map to exist in the game along with 2Fort, Dustbowl, Gravel Pit, CP_Well, and Granary

[@DuneJumper]

@@scantyer Yeah now that you mention it I remember when I was a little kid I'd load up Hydro just to explore it.

[@maestrofeli4259]

@@scantyer there's a reason why expiration date takes place on hydro lol

[@eltiolavara9]

i once waited 5 full hours to play hydro with like 2 people. every match was won in like five seconds and the map got flooded with bots in minutes, it was magical honestly i really like hydro, it feels like more interesting players join there and also the maps look and feel is one of my favorites in the game

[@eltiolavara9]

what i mean by "more interesting players" is that the only video i saw of one of the TF2 devs playing was in hydro and i also found one guy with a saxxy and another with some super rare weapon there

[@aboveaveragebayleaf9216]

Just had a full match of real players last night. It's actually been possible lately with the lack of bots.

[@eltiolavara9]

@@aboveaveragebayleaf9216 :D thats awesome, seeing how hydro was always flooded (pun not intended i swear pinky promise) with bots

[@101Volts]

I had a few matches in Late November - Early December 2022. I often look for a Hydro match if I'm queueing up, unless I don't have much time.

[@Xx_SuperPenis_xX]

Literally no one plays this map i que for such a long time just trying to get this one achievement and never play it again

[@Remoga2Sanctum]

I'm surprised you haven't dived into TF2 Classic's take on Hydro, where they revamped the map for the mod's Domination mode by opening up all 4 main control points, making for chaotic matches. Plus, it never ends in stalemates, making for quick & fluid matches for all players. EDIT: They also changed the skybox texture & the map's lighting to match the atmosphere of the "Meet the Engineer" class video.

[@PauperoftheFishies]

Never ends in stalemates, always ends in RED winning lmao Not to hate on the map, it's one of my favorites, RED's point is just ridiculously difficult to attack

[@BIGGS1]

Reds point on that map is so OP

[@thewisenoodle1116]

let's all agree that blu, grn and ylw should gang up on red so they don't win every time

[@BComet]

I really love TF2C Hydro too. But god RED Team's point can suck a d.

[@BIGGS1]

@Damsen 4 player domination could theoretically work. If the server max was set to 32 or 40 and if spy just appears to be on whatever team the person looking at him is on. And of course on maps that are balanced around the game mode. Especially considering that Tf2c is a much less complex game than tf2 a more complex game mode seems like it does well.

[@wolfcl0ck]

I love hydro but the concept of it being "fast paced" was actually its downfall. Cradle-to-powerplant is a for-sure stalemate because there is literally only one way to go, and I'm not sure I've EVER seen a successful defense on last for either team. A setup timer and a few new flanks in some areas would really help the map out, I think.

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

territorial control as a whole would be way better if there was no "final" point where a team gets pushed back to, and if there was 1 center control point for both teams to fight over, because with the current 2, the losing team always goes into defense mode and causes stalemates i guess 3 points would work as well, with the middle one being neutral, like in powerhouse (fitting since they both take place in the same area aswell). 3 points would kinda solve the issue of final defense causing stalemates, because the losing team could theoretically push back into mid, or flank and distract the winning team, letting them get to mid. right now, if youre pushed back to your point, you basically cant push out also bring back sudden death pls pls pls

[@somerandomguyintheinternet]

Ngl, i kinda agree on that.

[@Reilers]

The thing with Hydro is that it just got the worst part of playing control points, once you're attacking a point in Hydro it's like you're playing 5cp and the enemy team is on their last point, their spawn is right next to it, and so it becomes a stalemate. It isn't a problem with hydro, it's a problem of playing control points in general. Also the time to capture a point being basically non existent is the final nail because, again, it brings the bad side of playing control points which is back cap, all it takes is a scout to completely ignore the enemy team and go throw himself on the point for 2 seconds and thats it, that one scout just won the round on his own.

[@101Volts]

I've seen successful defenses on both BLU and RED end caps. Point is, they exist. Engineers have very little time to work, though.

[@GilliganTF2]

Hydro is like a time machine, it was made for all the new players that started the game but when the players started to get good at it, Hydro started to feel like a bad map, all closed at some areas and making it imposible to players who are good at the game to even win or lose

[@Snivy_Films]

I think Territorial Control is a fundamentally flawed, especially in todays TF2 Landscape. It's basically 5cp with a twist, but I believe it could work. Having a giant map that dynamically changes depending who has each capture point, and to win you have to cap all of them. Have a time limit like 15 minutes or something like that, and if it runs out which team has the most points is rewarded with the win. The entire map is available at all times as well, with respawn locations dynamically shifting depending on who owns each capture point, maybe getting an option to pick where you can respawn would be nice. The game mode is honestly neglected and I would love to see more official maps to be added to TC, I think it would be nice to see TC, along with Player Destruction maps to be added, since they are genuine in their own ways and I would love to see the concept expanded and improved on

[@Dribbleondo]

Hydro is an odd duck. I appreciate the gimmick it was trying to achieve, but I think Valve over-estimated how much map replayability matters. New maps tend to be better than one that tries to change each round, which, as Hydro veterans can attest to, just cuts off options and makes you feel boxed in and just detracts from the experience.

[@scantyer]

Valve thought that people would love a map if it kept changing heavily every time. But in truth, people play their favorite map over and over because they know what to expect and they can master the map each playthrough. There's a reason why people love to play on maps like upward, badwater, 2fort, etc over and over

[@101Volts]

@@scantyer Except, as a 360 version veteran, I got used to Hydro well enough to know what to expect. A lot of it is probably just newcomer shock if you're not used to it.

[@Jazzalinco]

I've had this idea for a while that Hydro is a good map, and TC is a great gamemode, but the two just don't mesh well. It's hard to pin down what issues come from the gamemode of TC itself when there's only one map, so it could be interesting to see TC versions of 3-stage maps (such as Dustbowl or even Thunder Mountain). Or even bring Hydro into other gamemodes such as CP, CTF, or even Payload? It would be great to be able to separate the issues caused by TC and the issues cause by hydro, to see how to improve both.

[@DrCranberry]

TC is one of those mods that is "too complex" for source. On paper, it works and is fun. But the reason why Valve never made another isn't because it doesnt work. It's because all the game logic that goes INTO Hydro not only makes the game lag, but the map being huge and varied makes it lag as well due to the insane amount of entities that exist. It's a good gamemode, and maybe if Source was a better engine at the time it could have worked honestly.

[@Agustinp-sd5ii]

The only difference between CP and it's variations (attack-deffense, whatever it's going on on Steel) and TC is that it has: both stages and free capture points for both teams. It's interesting how when you separate these mechanics it works pretty well but putting them all togheter doesn't appear to work (at least on Hydro). It would be an interesting experiment to try TC on other maps and apply CP to Hydro. Although I think the problem of adding TC to existing maps ( example: Badwater ) is to balance the atack and defense teams so now they can do both.

[@savant4646]

i remember entering the map for the first time at around 2016, and i was genuienly shocked when i found out that it was released at the games release, it felt so new and invigorating in terms of map design, verticality and setting, shame that it was so hated

[@MegapiemanPHD]

There have only been a few attempts from custom maps when it comes to TC. Some of them work pretty well as they are more suited for TF2's modern gameplay opposed to the cramped spaces of Hydro.

[@plasticold2167]

Not much to say about Hydro but the Age of Mythology music in the 3rd section, chef's kiss, impeccable taste.

[@darkranger116]

"tell them how old you are, without actually saying your age" back in my day, Hydro made up 80% of your playtime.

[@YakiAttaki]

I always have Hydro in my map queue selection just in case I get into a match of it with queuing. Barely happens, but I'm always hopeful. Same with Snowplow, actually, cause I really liked Snowplow when I played it.

[@ConroNorock]

I love Hydro, and would definitely play a version with some tweaks to help balance out the gameplay. I think I saw a version with an extra CP between points, turning it into a 3CP map, which was an interesting take. I never cared for people complaining that it was "too confusing," like, my friend, there are literally giant flashing arrows telling you where to go like a bad guy's secret base in a cartoon. I don't think the problem is the map here.

[@GrizonII]

I think it’s somewhat confusing in the sense that you actually have to pay attention a bit to know what areas and such are currently available, unlike most maps where once you’ve played them enough it’s much easier to just have an instinctive understanding of the space (since they don’t vary like TC does). I think that’s a more minor issue compared to just the 2 control point setup not working very well as an objective though.

[@oiytd5wugho]

I loved walking around hydro offline, it's the essence of TF2's early art style before it all got muddied. I especially love the road with the railing

[@Artersa]

Totally agree. I’m seeing this sentiment around these comments generally. Hydro is a fantastic visual snapshot of what made TF2 striking visually on the first place.

[@corneliuscornwallis]

I think a fully open hydro, functioning similarly to Standin, without a time limit, on a 100-player server would be a very, very interesting experience. It would be longer, require greater strategy, and be a whole lot more chaotic.

[@gavinbob5697]

I like your videos, they are very calm. I get a very warm feeling from them, its nice and relaxing.

[@NightmareLyra]

I always liked this one and never got the hate, not even a nostalgia thing as I started playing on PC in 2009 and I like this one way more than Dustbowl and 2Fort

[@sgas]

Thanks for including captions!! Love that you went out of your way to document the map like this the music is perfect too

[@Whomobile]

Thank you! I need to tidy up a few spots with the captions but youtube actually does a good job of automating text to captions which makes the process easier

[@purplehaze2358]

I genuinely don’t think I’ve ever played this map, and can only recall a single instance of seeing someone else do it.

[@ministerofpropagandaindoct4966]

I genuinely enjoy Hydro. It plays pretty well despite its slightly confusing nature. Just wish it wasn't in the Alternative Gamemode purgatory.

[@charleschamp9826]

Imagine if the next small update, like update localization files kind of small, fixed that water cooler.

[@KraffyBagel]

This was the first TF2 map I loaded into in 2008 when I got the orange box

[@jamesstutts1681]

Your videos are so nostalgic… I haven’t been magnetically attracted to videos in a long time. I can’t look away. Thinking about all the memories, the friendships and people that are no more. It’s like looking at a map full of ghosts. Imagine if you could go back in time. Imagine all the people who were here…

[@broisyougobbling]

If I know TF2, the only reason that yen symbol is in the wall is cause the map stops working when they take it out

[@Whomobile]

It's actually used as a lighting source for some props in the area (aka, when a prop looks weird in the local lights you can set another object to be the reference) so it does have a practical use!

[@broisyougobbling]

Haha I figured there had to be an actual reason for it!

[@DudeTheNinja]

Actually, I played a game of Hydro today whilst hopping Casual servers with a friend. It was alright, but definitely a bit hectic compared to the A/D and Control Point gamemodes that it is very similar to. Probably because it has a *lot* of bottlenecks. I've played more Hydro in custom forms, such as TF2C (where it's a Domination-style map), Zombie Survival (where all the doors are opened), and the layout is just fine, but I think it's better played when all four central points are available at once, as it's huge. Maybe if it was a case of "if you own all four points you can cap last but you only have a brief moment of time for it", kinda like a mix of Gravel Pit and I also think Hydro is honestly one of the best-looking Team Fortress maps in permanent rotation, mostly for its varied environments (one moment you're in a cave, the next in a giant telescope, then overlooked by a dam). Plus it's very big, could be fun for a custom server where all the doors are opened, spawns are in random locations, and everyone just goes ham with weapons (kinda like a CSGO deathmatch round).

[@BComet]

The Sudden Death "mode", actually fixes most problems with Stalemate'y matches. It's absurdly rare to still tie between both teams with it enabled. I have been playing TF2 for 10 years and just once I remember a Sudden Death ending in a tie.

[@doktorkritzisch]

Ayo thanks for the comment feature! At this point I play the map so infrequently that anytime it comes up in the map rotation I get excited purely from the novelty.

[@shadokwastaken]

i laughed like an idiot when among us flashed on screen for a sec when your were in the vents

[@crosskoyamayandaytugay3508]

it was fun to listen to the developer messages on this map

[@Berg2woo]

I've been playing for years and only now did I realize I haven't gotten the world tour achievment and have been trying for days because nobody will play hydro.

[@Eplayer82]

Honestly hydro is one of my favourite maps but its a shame its the only tc map making it the gamemode with the least amount of maps

[@Doom_State]

Hydro was my absolute favorite map but now it’s gotta be 2 fort

[@snakebreak230]

the song you made for the exploring bit sounds offputting but somehow peaceful and surreal, i like

[@timprimetal5380]

Wow, Age of Mythology music over TF2 makes me feel some sort of way. I actually developed a custom AOM map based on Hydro. The most fun I had playing this map was when it was set up as a 4-point koth map like they do/did in TF2C.

[@AnStupidIdot]

Amazing map, thanks for making a video on it! Great work as always

[@LtWret]

man really put the age of mythology music as the background

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

Love the Age of Mythology music in the background of this video! What a great soundtrack. You have good taste :D

[@Whomobile]

ye

[@alexwasherefirst]

Thanks for this I love this map and there aren't enough videos about it.

[@sirlagsalot1050]

This kinda felt like a long form version of all your little map facts videos which is super neat. I'd love to see more like this on other maps, but I have no idea how much there even is to discuss about them. I bet all the maps from TFC have a lot of history to them

[@channingcheese2]

I really appreciate that you use your own music in your videos. I love when youtubers draw attention to their other hobbies and artistic endevaours

[@HighCommand1]

Your idea about making Hydro Domination is a actually done in Team Fortress 2 Classic but with 4teams it was done great maybe too chaotic but fun, Speaking of Team Fortress 2 Classic normal Hydro plays pretty well in Team Fortress 2 Classic, Maybe its because TF2C balance is more like original balance of TF2

[@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413]

dom_hydro sucks because: 24 players spread across 4 teams makes for 6 player teams. only 6 players on a huge map means most of the time your team is gonna be spread out, and trying to do anything on your own is a death wish. the map isnt symmetrical, so some teams have an advantage over others. for example, 1 good sniper can completely lock down red point, while blu point is just really easy to spam out and approach the maps size, as previously mentioned, causes lack of coordination, but also makes scout meta

[@legdig]

What if we made it a payload race map. randomly chosen paths that both carts take.

[@AndrewTaylorNintyuk]

there's many different game modes that might work better than the current TC like I said on Twitter but I Think Whomobile wanted to save the game mode and not just the structure of the map.

[@machomannco.4569]

Unironically a really cool idea.

[@godofacorns]

Just played Hydro on a 100player server, either skial or shounic's. It was terrible. There are only ever 2 or 3 chokes leading to the enemy point, and it becomes imppssible to cross them. A good experience to have though.

[@anthony-fw6cg]

The third battle of Hover Dam

[@dr.ludwig8189]

Age of Mythology music? Based.

[@hawksquadron7302]

Malista, prostagma

[@SerinitySack]

I love wacky, gimmick maps and I feel like Hydro fits in with that perfectly well. The layout and terrain feels so unique compared to most of the other maps in TF2. It actually feels like it could be a real place. Most people seem to be in agreement that territory control is the problem. I like the idea, but I don’t think it can ever work in this simple form. I’ve seen that there’s a Domination variant of Control Points on the TF2 wiki, I’ve never played standin surprisingly. I think something like this could work on Hydro, but instead of having to control all points for a clear win without being stuffed into sudden death or stalemating, the team with the most points captured at the end of a time limit wins the round. They can end the round instantly if they manage to capture all points. If the amount of points captured is even at the end of the round, then the game goes into sudden death, and acts as regular TC, choosing two random territories and making the teams fight it out with no respawns. I believe Hydro could also work as a two-sided centralized-style attack/defend map. Just imagine cp_steel but both teams have a base that the other has to capture to win. Hell, a two-sided pyramid-style (gravel pit, junction) mode could work too. There are lots of game mode options Hydro could have instead of TC.

[@QuintessentialWalrus]

I love your ideas for the most part but as far as scoring goes I'd like it more if it was similar to Territories scoring in Halo. There's an odd number of control points -- for an example, let's say 5 -- and whoever controls a majority of the points will increase their score. 1 per second if you own 3 control points, 2 per second if you own 4, and I like your idea of an instant win if one team controls every point. Come to think of it, this is really similar to how KOTH scoring works in TF2.

[@yoosperson9753]

hydro is at least my top 3 map and im tired of not being able to play on it

[@cartog_rafa]

i really like your videos style and approach to the subject

[@unity6926]

Nice AoM chill mix, peak taste my friend

[@hawksquadron7302]

Prostagma

[@Dog-999i]

It’s kind of strange seeing playing on Hydro as a rare occurrence, because I used to play the Xbox 360 version all the time, and Hydro was one of the most common maps. I definitely have a soft spot for it.

[@randomguy019]

Same. Played like 1000 hours of TF2 on Xbox 360, and I am intimately aware of most of Hydros layouts. It's a fun experience, and sudden death is actually an exhilarating experience.

[@michaelo4476]

i don't think i ever knew this map was so big, half of what you were walking around with all the secret passages i'd never seen before

[@ArchangelTirael]

People: We're don't like Hydro because of constant stalemates! Also people: * Playing Powerhouse *

[@erncolin]

While I haven't played the map in a long time and the last time I played I was too confused, I gotta say I rly like the map's visuals. Like the caves are rly cool and that dam in the background is a rly cool backdrop.

[@Couriday]

I remember when I installed in 2015, Hydro was a map that was long gone from the Valve ordained quickplay servers. Back when you had the choice of 7 gamemodes, only Doomsday stood out as the odd duck of game modes, since the "alternative game modes" section wasn't a thing yet. But it sat there, in the world traveler achievement. An achievement unobtainable without finding some server of it the old fashioned way or booting up alone, sitting in the corner of the achievements menu, forgotten. It was so genuinely bizzare to me when I learned about it along with arena in the early days

[@thebigboyyay]

I always have Hydro on my queue as that one goofy ah map I ironically liked it now it's unironic

[@serioussponge6416]

A major thing that drags Hydro down is Valve's decision to completely remove Sudden Death mode from the game, relegating it to some backroom option that can be only enabled manually server-side or on custom maps. For those who don't remember or didn't start playing the game when it first came out, Stalemates for many game modes didn't used to end with just a reset of the match, it would put you into Sudden Death mode where the match was reset but with one major difference: No respawn. This was an objectively effective way to avoid having long and dragged out stalemates just by itself in most cases as at that point, the win conditions were changed to include just killing everyone on the enemy team. Unless the server turned friendly, it was inevitable that one side would win just from fighting even if the objective was too well guarded.

[@HEWHOTAWNS]

Thanks for being one of the few tf2 youtubers who don't have their head up their ass and just makes good content

[@flare6255]

I got this game in the Orange Box and I remember really liking Hydro just because it was so different from the other maps. I think that's a good point to bring up, which you do; when the game was relatively new, this map, which was unique amongst the maps, was unique and curious. Now there's so many maps that all have their own gimmicks and tricks that it's not as unique anymore

[@Dog-999i]

One time I played on Hydro and the red team spawned in blu’s spawn for 5 seconds.

[@LinkiePup]

Bro you vented in TF2? Pretty Sus not gonna lie.. In general I think of Hydro as the base line/ style guide on how to develop the look for a standard TF2 Map. It also being the style I tend to fall back on as it looks good no matter what! Building are blocky, but not flat. The caves are plane but always have some good lighting. It’s honestly the quintessential TF2 map for graphical design.

[@salsamancer]

Playing hydro always takes me back to the days of playing launch TF2. There was no meta yet, everybody was confused and noob as hell, but we had fun

[@RevolverRez]

Another 360 player here. Hydro wasn't even played that much on console either, but the few times I got to play it I had fun.

[@heavenandhello6629]

The 360 version of tf2 is the same exact thing as what the pc version used to be like in 2007. It was also released on the same day as the pc version which was on October 10 2007. And the ps3 version was released in December 2007

[@ChristianTheChicken]

I did not expect to hear Age of Mythology music in this video. Or any video for that matter lol. Damn good soundtrack, though.

[@ZaccoOfficial]

9:19 As a mapper, I can confirm, you are entirely correct.

[@asteroidrules]

A thought about fixing TC: what if you make it so every point works like the final: one attacker, one defender, with the twist being that the role of attacker/defender is determined by who won the previous stage of the map, if an attacking team wins a stage they go on to attack the next, if the defending team wins they attack a different stage after that. This would essentially turn it into the "momentum" gamemode of Verdun, where the attacking team has to continuously sustain a push or else be knocked back, and the defending team can counter attack if they hold off the attacking wave.

[@TheMag1cWalrus]

Funny thing at around 20:00 you came up with the same Idea I did. I made a map in hammer where there is a single control point in the center and teams play Koth around that point. But with each round the two spawn points rotate randomly around the center control point (which never changes). I gave up because I was just learning and I didn't understand how to actually make that work. Plus the final capture point was weird to work around.

[@Oncomishere]

Pyro's long lost aquatic brother

[@ye_wonker]

never played hydro, but the badly hidden secret bases just take me back to the first time i played 2fort in 2010. i guess hydro is like a time capsule of experiencing tf2 map design for the first time

[@Ruija27]

Regarding the idea of sealing off of areas in TC. You mentioned damaging players stuck in those areas. I don't know if it would be fun, but assuming it's a viable solution, I think it could be justified by using a space theme (like Asteroid and Bread Space). You could vent parts of the base to space and use that to explain trigger_hurt damage, respawning players in the active parts of the map.

[@Fatsaver]

Hydro is the TF2 Backrooms

[@gungancrab]

4:43 Tom Francis???? He made Heat Signature which is in my top 3 videogames of all time. absolutely crazy to see him mentioned. what a small world

[@Kerma7]

the age of mythology music distracted me and made me have to go and listen to the soundtrack again... insane nostalgia bomb

[@Gemarald]

Hydro is an acquired taste, but most importantly people just need to try it out! It's concept is good, the execution could definitely be better, but all and all it's pretty damn fun! I think the biggest thing about it is the fact it's in alternative game modes, and not many players ever get a chance, if territorial control was a bigger thing i genuinely think it could be a blast!

[@zaxbit]

Thanks for reminding me that Hydro was a map. Lots of good times Engie-camping in the early days here. I agree this map was a bit too ambitious and probably would have been less overwhelming split up into smaller maps (despite R Walker's idea). Overall I wonder if the game speed being a bit slower/less chaotic/less vertical back in the day may have aged it out. Brilliant art direction and delights baked in, can really see a beloved v2 of this map happening.

[@belkaberserk]

5:30 Nope, round timers are still broken on this map, I recently played on Hydro and despite the timer at the top saying that we had about 2:30 minutes the announcer said that there were only 30 seconds left, not only that, but at the same time it said that RED was capturing a control point, while that was not the case, there were nobody at the point, and ~30 seconds later BLU team lost.

[@Whomobile]

Haha wow, must of been lucky on my end

[@Dr_Dan_]

17:10 3kliksphilip but tf2

[@An_Ian]

Hydro is a perfect example of devs predicting a vert different community than what actually became of tf2

[@Kabutoes]

hydro feels like you're in a 60s spy movie or james bond

[@lfty7345]

watching this video made me realize ive never seen 85% of hydro even after playing for 10 years

[@jumpinghunter9152]

For me the hydro is a map that came before it's time has come. It is very interesting concept, and it is one of my favourite maps in both Live TF2 and TF2 Classic, but this map's concept was too complex to be made well at the time it was made. Also, hydro and probably powerhouse is the only 2 maps that still have this very old "Power plant" art style. And for me, this exact power plant-ish look of these 2 maps is what a TF2's true art style is. I love how they look, especially the hydro. Hydro is like a museum of an old times, it really does feel like you are playing a 2007-2008 version of TF2 when you play original hydro, and i really love it for that.

[@ootoot2152]

the Team Fortress 2 Classic version of Hydro where the whole map is open and it's four teams competing for four active control points is PERFECT its like thats how they wanted the map to be from the start but the limitations of the original game held it back

[@Buglin_Burger7878]

If you change the last section to defend and attack you take the TC out of the TC. It is a push/pull to get into the enemy's base and run them out. It makes sense if you travel far from your own base your supplies are limited compared to the other team so they can just defend you out. It helps keep the push/pull feeling till the very end. The final push. It is climatic.

[@bobbied3]

That water cooler on the sniper deck used to be on the playable area. I remember sitting on it and camping a sentry and dispenser there. It would block the entire hallway.

[@LL-kz7ge]

When I got the game in 2007, Hydro was literally the most played map. Oh how things have changed.

[@redstonewarrior0152]

3 active points per round. The two capture points that are usually active and a third "micro point" that acts as an intermediary between the two areas. That way, each round ends up being a mini powerhouse untill either the round timer expires or one team captures the other team's point. Now of course, the mini points will reset between each round, but if a game ends in a stalemate, whoever held the mini control point last has their respawn room pushed forward slightly, while the opposing team has their spawn room pulled back slightly. Oh, and capping the mini control point will shift spawn rooms around a bit as well.

[@Tumbolisu]

Don't forget that 2fort, dustbowl and well are from previous TF games. 2fort even goes all the way back to a quake map. Also, on the topic of suggestions, Blade x64 once made a koth tc map. It was pretty alright.

[@mmmy4282]

A list of maps that I think would be interesting to see you cover (Added #13 - #18) 1 - Growing Map (Started off tiny but the author kept adding in new rooms suggested by comments on the workshop page.) 2 - gm_gmall (Really well made map full of fun little secrets.) 3 - de_apehouse (Absolute classic map. There is also a Christmas version that's quite nice.) 4 - GMod13_Hotels (My absolute favorite, just so interesting to explore. Would really love to see a longer video looking over this one.) 5 - gm_novenka (Has a similar feeling to gm_mobenix_v3. Really big sandbox map sorta deal.) 6 - supersizeroom_v2 (Another classic map, just a wonderful relic of Source.) 7 - HomeTown 1999 (Really comfy map of a small town, has a bunch of shops and stuff like that to explore.) 8 - sb_omen_v2 (Spacebuild map where you can explore each planet in our solar system, plus there's an end goal to go for. Can't forget that there's a few secrets around the map as well.) 9 - gm_liminal_hotel (A map that's a recreation of a real hotel that's gotten posted around a lot because of the whole "Liminal spaces" thing. Outside of the liminal aspect it's definitely an interesting map.) 10 - gm_goldencity_v2 (Similar to something like gm_bigcity, just a very large city map to explore except with a pretty rad look to it all.) 11 - Not a single map, more an idea for a whole video. A video looking over every version of gm_construct would definitely be interesting. A pack of every version called gm_construct history was uploaded to the workshop a little while back. 12 - gm_maze (The name says it's a maze, but it's more like a LOT of rooms that each lead into different ones. And every room has a completely different design to it.) 13 - Aurora Mansion, the file name is koth_aurora_mansion_v5finalest (A map made for redsun.tf and of course its packed with lovely little details and a lot of random fun stuff around. And outside of that it's just an overall beautiful tf2 map.) 14 - Slave of GMod (Not really a map but more of a custom gamemode based on the game Hotline Miami. It was originally made as a response to Valve allowing people to charge for workshop mods.) 15 - Growing Map 2 (A sequel to the original Growing Map, though this time there's a story in it apparently.) 16 - gm_MountainResort (A pretty damn huge map of exactly what it sounds like. Loads to explore and interact with. Though there is a few issues with it. FIrst off it's VERY resource intensive, plus it may be a bit too refined for the weird maps series.) 17 - gm_lonegrass (An edit of gm_flatgrass but with a bunch of changes. Definitely gives off a classic source mapping feeling) 18 - phys_dmm_house (A total classic map. A small house with a living room, a kitchen, an office, and a little balcony. And it's all also completely destructible. Every single part of the house can be destroyed however you want. It's definitely not big enough for a whole video but it would definitely be good if you're looking at multiple in one upload.)

[@hmmmblyat]

I have played Tf2 for only about 520 hours, yet i have never heard, played or seen the map "Hydro". Not even in any KZbin video. I was NOT aware of it existence.

[@ahbraveconscript997]

trivia 1 - player respawn times vary during the round. at the start it's pretty long, up to 20 seconds. at the end it drops to 3-5 seconds. trivia 2 - in team fortress classic there was a "territotial control" map, called calanzone 2, along a few community maps for the mode. there you had to deliver flags from your base to the CPs scattered on the map. you were also slowed by about half of your speed when carrying the flag so it was a good idea to grenade/conc grenage/rocket/pipebomb jump instead of walking.

[@maxis_scott_engie_maximov_jr]

I found Hydro by accident actually while looking through map files, but honestly wasn't dissapointed, it's the best fun with normal TF2 gameplay I've ever had

[@Siger5019]

Hydro taps a very specific part of my soul.

[@XradicalD]

5:54 Eyyy As mentioned before I played TF2 a lot in the early days on 360 and Hydro really was a new experience every time. Probably was due the early nature of the game where it was a bit harder to stale mate due to players still learning the game. But I do remember being times where I knew a match would stale mate, (like being a defending engineer and your team never capping the enemy point, but if you switch to help the offensive the enemy WOULD cap the point as there would not be an engineer defending). I love Hydro and the core idea, but maybe nowadays with the high skill ceiling the core game mode is prone to stale mate. Maybe the core game mode needs a rework to help avoid playing Hydro for over an hour (as it's easy to push back and forth on the territories) but easier said than done. Maybe what can be done now is just rescue the map itself and not the game mode: Hydro is a fantastic map that holds that classic TF2 feel. Maybe turning it into a different game mode could work for Hydro itself, and then do a player test to see how it works out. Who knows, maybe give it a Halloween theme or Winter theme could give it a fresh breathe of air.