What's Up With Superhero Movies?

Scott, Nick, and Stephan discuss the state of superheroes in 2024 and probably make a few folks angry.
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[@FourStarBento]

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[@gr8powerfuloz86]

Nick, wwe lives on Peacock. That’s essentially their big cash cow

[@mesektet5776]

I do not have superhero fatigue; I do however have franchise management fatigue.

[@armandotorres8962]

I have lazy movie fatigue

[@Madara8989]

​@@Actile1 Sure, but being reductive about the problem isn't helpful. By calling it genre fatigue, it sends the wrong message; that the genre itself is the problem and inherently can't be saved without practically dying off like musicals and westerns did.

[@user-qn4xu4tq7n]

Yeah I think most people probably still would get hyped for superhero stuff. Invincible is a good example of this.me personally though I am tired of superhero stories

[@mesektet5776]

@@user-qn4xu4tq7n I play City of Heroes everyday, and have been ever since the relaunch, no fatigue there. So yeah stuff like that and Invincible, no issues but oh another interconnected problem in the same verse we never heard of before, that wreaks of focus groups? Yeah that’s getting old.

[@Just_Some_Guy_with_a_Mustache]

Did we reboot this episode without realizing? Man, it really is like reading a comic book the last few decades, now.

[@ZiroZenStudios]

Smhmyhead they shoulda released the cut with the broken audio alongside this one. #ReleaseTheAudioCut

[@connorwood9211]

Avengers Earth's Mightiest Heroes did Secret Invasion fantastic. Highly recommended checking out the series

[@vullord666]

I miss Earth's Mightiest so much and I hate that it was canceled after the Disney purchase so everything could suit Disney's agenda (at the time the MCU)

[@Future_Vantas]

Seconded. From the Season 1 finale to the climatic finale battle it was really gripping seeing our favorite characters getting played by the Skrulls until they turned the tide. The battle in Wakanda was a highlight, love how infectious Ms. Marvel's panic was. Also, I like how they used Kang to tease Secret Invasion. He was adamant that Captain America was a traitor that would doom the future. It sounded ridiculous... up until the Season 1 finale.

[@bearerofbadnews1375]

Ironically the Hulk and the agents of S.m.a.s.h cartoon had a better she-hulk.

[@dantedoomsday]

WandaVision was always supposed to come before Dr Strange in the Multiverse of Madness ever since they were announced at Comic-Con. At that panel, Kevin Feige even said WandaVision would lead into Dr Strange 2. The only thing that changed because of COVID was the gap between the release dates. Instead of a few months, it became over a year.

[@vullord666]

I'd argue the fact that non sequel movies need a strict release schedule just to follow and make sense of them is part of the problem.

[@Zacman1123]

Still doesn't help that Doctor Strange 2 undid all of Wanda's development in WandaVision.

[@dantedoomsday]

​@@Zacman1123 What development did she have in WandaVision that was undone in Dr Strange 2?

[@ch2010ize]

​@@dantedoomsdayDid you watch the show or? She learned not to escape from reality to avoid grief.

[@dantedoomsday]

@@ch2010ize I watched WandaVision. I'm not sure what your other option was. She did learn not to escape from reality to avoid grief in WandaVision. You're right. BUT the show also ended with Wanda reading from the Darkhold and her hearing Tommy and Billy's voices. Her mind was already becoming corrupted which was continued in Dr Strange 2. So I would say it's more accurate to claim the Darkhold undid Wanda's development which was the whole point in introducing the Darkhold so that the plot in Dr Strange 2 could happen.

[@GreayWorks]

I love that when people describe Ezra, they talk about them like a bear going on a rampage

[@Ironcorgi2]

They did do a ton of fucked up shit with zero consequences lol

[@IanTho1]

I said this earlier and I shall say it again I'VE NEVER SEEN SCOTT WITHOUT A HAT

[@LNGT]

You didn't watch the first few episodes of DBZA commentary?

[@IanTho1]

@@LNGT I did...but that was over a year ago so I guess I forgot, either way you ruined this for me 😭

[@kyuubinaruto17]

@@IanTho1 Also that episode of DBZA, I think the Garlic Junior or Episode of Bardock special, which ended with Mr. Popo taking over Scott's computer at the end.

[@emanuelemonastra2790]

​@@kyuubinaruto17 I think It was episode... 12 maybe? I don't remember the number, but It was the one focused on fake Namek

[@chrishall5570]

He truly is the Double D of Team Four Star

[@MrMario-tc8sl]

Oh, so you think just because you upload a corrected audio version of this video, I'm just going to watch the entire thing again? Well your goddamn right, I'm going to watch it again!!

[@23mustang32]

Renegade for life!

[@HOLDXSTEEL]

You’re

[@MrMario-tc8sl]

@@HOLDXSTEEL fare 😁

[@hectortheinspector6838]

Honestly I feel the fatigue is less about superheroes but more of the concept of cinematic universes. Like these characters are decades old and have able to output so many great stories. Most which I would attribute to all the different creatives that had their own takes on these characters and were able to expand them. But forcing these characters with very different tones under one umbrella just takes away the strengths that made them engaging.

[@RacingStripeAV]

Another problem when it comes to cinematic universes (at least, to me) is that you risk shutting out potential newer fans. Like, I missed the boat when the first MCU movies came out, and by the time Infinity War/Endgame dropped, there were already about 20 movies in the series at that point - As someone who hasn't watched an MCU movie (outside of Iron Man 2 and Hulk '08, neither of which I can remember much of), I don't want to have to watch all of those, _and_ the ten or so that have come out since then, _and_ all of the connected TV shows on top of that, just so I know why a certain thing happens in whatever one is coming up next (but that's just how my brain works, I just like having the full context of things). There's a reason series used to do hard reboots/retellings, or just stuck to standalone stories, because they're far more accessible. It's been 15 years since the MCU started, and we've gone through at least a couple nostalgia cycles in that time, with general audience's tastes changing. From what I can tell, it seems like Endgame wrapped everything up in a neat little bow, and the MCU as a whole probably should have just finished there at what was esentially "the end of Season 3"... something I feel TFS can relate to all too well (there's a reason DBZA S4 never became a thing).

[@johnadams8385]

Blade Trinity is the source of one of my favorite 'trick' questions. "What was the first R rated Marvel Movie with Ryan Reynolds?" Everyone defaults to Deadpool.

[@RiderOmega]

On the subject of Scarlet Witch, I haven't liked the way she's been written since Civil War. At the beginning of that movie she doesn't just randomly throw Crossbones at that building, she threw him out of a crowd of civilians. Steve later acknowledges he should've noticed Crossbones' vest, but outside of that the event is often referenced as some horrible mistake she made that set her on some dark path when in reality, she made the right call and very understandably struggled with the execution under extreme pressure. It's understandable she be troubled by what happened, but I'd at least expect the other heroes around her to be on her side about it, and they just weren't.

[@Zacman1123]

I think there was some sexism involved when writing Civil War.

[@Axetwin]

I never understood that as well. She was CLEARLY getting him away from the crowd of people and she was trying to contain the explosive in her bubble. So I agree, everything about her character starting with that and since has been handled so poorly. I thought for a moment Wandavision was going to course correct, but nope just an immediate 180 to undo her character progression so they can force her into a villain role.

[@denverarnold6210]

Not to mention getting scolded by the government. The same one that just a few movies and years ago TRIED TO NUKE NYC.

[@JohnnyFish971]

​@@Axetwinshe was always a villain for must part Although tragic one

[@Rubymagicalgirl88]

58:30 I've never really been a fan of Superman but when I've seen moments of Superman being the most human and compastionate character I see what we should see. Which is a shame because Henry Cavil deserved to get to play that Superman. Continuing to listen to this. I would love to see a Batman Beyond film while we have Keaton as oldman Bruce.. I doubt it sadly.

[@SageVallant]

Oh, for MCEU? The reason Phase 1 worked so well, imo, is that all the guys were working in their own setting. Like, First Avenger was a WW2 movie. Thor 1 was a Fantasy film. Ironman was your modern snarky antihero flick. They were all practically different movies. Even Winter Soldier is subtly just a really good Spy Thriller. At some point, they're just all dumb action popcorn flicks. They're the same, now. The problem with DCEU is that they all fit together from the start. They all feel like they're the same. So then, the question of "what happens when they come together" in the DCU is just "any other DCU movie" while in the MCU it was a bunch of characters that felt like they were from different worlds. How can they coexist?

[@Shift_Salt]

DCEU/Snyderverse had that issue with some exceptions (Basically only Shazam) but DCU seems to be acknowledging the issue with rushing that, Blue Beetle got his own movie to set him up, Superman and Batman of DCU will be getting their own movies, other projects not DCU will be clearly established as independent.

[@jodinsan]

The DCEU really looked at The Avengers and saw that it worked, it was really popular, and made a lot of money. So the DC movie execs decided, _"What if _*_every_*_ movie was like the Avengers?"_ And it doesn't work because not every damn movie needs an ensemble cast.

[@jodinsan]

That's also why The Arrowverse fell apart. They tried to make _every_ show into The Justice League with an ensemble cast of heroes.

[@Spink_Prime]

I think it's fascinating that you say Ant Man Quantumania is "fine", but you say the writing in Shang Chi was "SO bad" and "makes no sense". Especially as writers, I'd have thought you would be a little more attuned to bad writing

[@DenBlackwolf]

Watch Thor 2 again. It is put together in a way that is wildly bad. But their Mother's death is powerful. Loki accidentally causing it is HUGE and leads to so much development down the line. And the scene between Loki and Thor in the prison, after her death, is one of the best they ever share. It isn't a great movie by any means. But I think people forget that it somehow pulled some magic out of its hat.

[@amirgarcia547]

I’ll at least give it that it led to one of the best scenes in Avengers Endgame involving Thor, where he confronts his mom again for the first time after her death.

[@RK-gy9tc]

Thor2 isn't the bad movie ppl make it out to be.

[@hosvet_animation]

I watched it for the first time recently and I think it's actually good for the first halfish, gets boring, then has one my favorite end battles of any marvel movie with all the shifting gravity and portal shenanigans. Baddish movie.

[@Future_Vantas]

Sucks how they handled Malekith, especially since he was such a force in the comics at the time. But Frigga's death and its aftermath is a strong highlight. Loki trashing his cell and hiding his grief via illusion is so good.

[@magneto9210]

It's a mediocre movie but some parts of it are tragically under appreciated.

[@jameskingman1227]

Lol wow you weren’t kidding with your disclaimer. You do have some unpopular opinions. Personally I absolutely love the first Superman Movie. I think it really holds up, however I understand that if you aren’t invested in the origin and Clark Kent as a person I can see why you would think it’s boring. There’s quite a lot of character stuff in it. I also view it as the template every super hero movie should follow to a point. Take your time, flesh out the main character. Not everything has to be a massive battle, and in Superman’s case while as a kid I also found this lame, I love how the final act is just him saving lives, no fighting, no grandstanding, just saving people, that is so rare now.

[@leithaziz2716]

Wait, the OG Superman film in the 80s? Wow, it is surprising he wasn't a fan of it. It's probably the closest film to get Clark right and make him likeable. I think what caught me off-guard is what he thought of The Batman. I thought Bruce's arc and growth in that film was a highlight. It might not be as influential as The Dark Knight, but there are some things I like better in the new film.

[@jameskingman1227]

@@leithaziz2716 I feel he’s just not really paying attention to these movies, both have flaws but it feels like he’s just had them on in the background, watched them once and just wants a hot take, it’s okay not to care, but I just find it hard to believe he missed all the depth and subtlety of the stories,. Then again I’ve watched Superman way too much and the Batman at least 3 times.

[@user-qn4xu4tq7n]

Ehh I don't really think that's an popular opinion now the og superman movie is really corny with pretty I'd say poorly aged affects. I don't think modern audiences who didn't grow up with it will like it.

[@TorchlightCinema80]

Stephen and kaiser gave the most poorly thought out critiques of The Batman that I've ever heard, "The script needed help." Like... are you joking?

[@Moonsong227]

My prior comment was a worthy blood sacrifice for the audio quality I guess lmao

[@MykiiMescal]

same but ill recreate mine

[@Steamtostay]

Suggestion for future videos like this one that are intended to be left running in the background - add a note in the corner, or maybe chapters, to divide by which movie is being discussed at any time.

[@migii820]

I feel like that’d be too complicated. This isn’t really scripted and they bounce around several movies/time periods

[@amirgarcia547]

I’m just glad that the only MCU movie we’re getting this year is Deadpool 3, and the only DC movie isn’t even from the DCU, but an Elseworld project with Joker 2. Being that both Disney and WB need to take a long, hard look at their superhero films if they want to dispel this whole “superhero fatigue” narrative that’s cropped up for the past few years. Which might be done by actually spreading out each project instead of trying to pump out three films a year, actually giving the creators the freedom to tell interesting, insightful stories instead of just studio overseen slop, and of course, have much better and less messy production cycles where the VFX don’t look like garbage. I doubt these problems are gonna go away anytime soon, but I just hope these companies actually see the writing on the wall and realize these movies are gonna keep making less and less money if something doesn’t change soon. And this’s coming from someone who loves Marvel and DC, but knows they can be capable of far better, and have in fact done better in the past. And DC’s already having its huge reboot in 2025, so Marvel just needs to figure out whatever the hell they need to do due to Phase 4 and 5 just feeling like a directionless mess so far. And losing the actor who played their next major villain that this new saga was gonna revolve around is like rubbing salt on a gaping wound.

[@RychuAlolan]

"Hey guys im sorry im gonna say something negative about the batman" *immediately gives a much bigger shit take about Superman*

[@Azure_Fire]

I really wanna see a Star Wars version of this video. I'm really curious what Nick and Stephan's experiences with the franchise have been beyond the Disney era.

[@justinpatton6996]

14:26 MCU talk starts 40:02 Spider Man 57:00 MCU talk end.

[@brandondodge6040]

After rewatching Justice League Unlimited I realize that I don't have superhero fatigue. I have bad writing fatigue.

[@mr.perfectcell7106]

Those DCAU shows are good tier I'm also rewatching teen titans for the 30th time

[@LegendsP137]

My most positive yet toxic opinion on "Superhero movies are bad, dying, and cringe" If the Clone Saga, Death of Superman, and One More Day didn't stop DC and Marvel from publishing more Superman and Spiderman. Why would a few mid movies and tv shows stop the DCU and MCU. You don't stop drawing because one piece is bad you just get your brushes, wipe them off, and work on the next one.

[@noahkarpinski1824]

The thing is that movies are a LOT more expensive then comics can ever be, and Hollywood is the most bloated industry imaginable

[@LegendsP137]

@@noahkarpinski1824 True that's why said both positive and toxic. The toxic being working with the studio system and them not being willing to give these projects more time cook and overworking VFX studios.

[@incrediblecaptain]

From left to right positivity goes down. It’s at it’s highest with Lani, most pessimistic with Stephan. Scott’s in the middle.

[@darwinism8181]

DCEU was more offensive in a nerd way because of how generally well the DCAMU did with basically the exact same material the DCEU cribbed from

[@legomaniac213]

Agreed. The MCU worked so well because it was largely the first time some of the B-list heroes had gotten widespread exposure, so there weren't any preconceived notions for a lot of the characters. Meanwhile, DC had the lofty heights that the Timmverse set for a lot of fans that the movies didn't even come close to.

[@sammyauroraloves]

My only critique of this video is the glaring omission of the pioneering masterpiece that is Batman: The Movie (1966) 😤 (yes this joke is worth bringing over from the last upload)

[@MykiiMescal]

ah yes perfect background sound for level grinding in Persona 3 Reload

[@MykiiMescal]

strange. i feel this comment too is a remake… it’s more the FES than the reload

[@egg_234]

​@MykiiMescal right lmao, but still same

[@denmark1226]

​@@MykiiMescalI'm watching this on my phone. I'm calling it the Portable

[@diegosuarez3856]

Overly Sarcastic Productions said it best, regarding multiverses stories to work: either nothing matters anymore (Crisis On Infinite Earths, and current comic/MCU), or everything matters (Everything, Everywhere, All At Once). Also! If you want a good comic Thor story, The Immortal Thor run so far is absolutely amazing.

[@XenithflareGaming]

I'd like to talk about how a giant celestial head and arm coming out of the Earth's crust hasn't been referenced one time in any movie. That's all.

[@hosvet_animation]

If I had to put out one reason I don't care about Marvel anymore it's that shit like that happens and it doesn't change the setting. Wakanda basically pushes the entire Earth into a space age with its level of tech and nothing changes in the setting.

[@FrankenSteinsGate]

With Marvel, Endgame felt like the end of when they made movies, and all of Phase 4 has just been them making Content™. And I'm really excited to see what James Gunn does with DC, but cautiously so since I imagine he'll have less direct control over everything and just be more of a guiding hand. Still looking forward to it either way though

[@StarTrekReference]

The main problem with the MCU (and Disney franchises in general) seems to be the top level management treats their movies and tv shows as products. They aren't making movies because they have a good idea for one, they're making them because they want to fill a release window. The scripts are shaved down to be as mass market friendly as possible and don't have a unique voice. You could splice most marvel movies together and not notice they had different writers since they all voice the characters as irreverent and "witty".

[@IanTho1]

1:41:35 THE ASMONGOLD SHADE 😭

[@aivalera]

Lani: "How am I going to do that, right?" Well, first we need to get Lani to be president. LANIPATOR 2028 YA'LL!!!

[@FortressWolf97]

About your argument about Kane, yes, he CAN be interesting with the multiverse concept because Funny Valentine from Jojo's Bizarre Adventures made the concept interesting. It's an opportunity to give a villain the sense that it doesn't matter how many times you beat him, another takes his place. It's a multidimensional hydra.

[@JacksonJinn]

THANK YOU FOR FIXING THE AUDIO! Now I can actually put this on in the background and watch it a second time!

[@calebmoeller8854]

Them complaining about fast ten being three parts so they could keep it at "ten" instead of 12, like they themselves didn't do it for all three seasons of dbza

[@o0bookwyrmknight0o]

It’s weird how possibly the biggest worry MonsterVerse has with its movies, is not if it can get a big name actor again, but if they will be able to get the rights to Godzilla in the next movie.

[@The_Muted93]

Its quite ironic to me that in my early 20s this enormous cinematic universe, w/separate shit occurring all over the place and even at the same time as other big events. Was exactly what I wanted from superhero movies. Mostly because the of how much more chaotic the universe would be than our own. Only made sense to me that yea maybe it could happen where godzilla is getting into a fight and wrecking shit in japan while power rangers are busy beating the shit outta zordon or whomsteverthefuck as the ghost busters are cleaning up after a big ghostly hoe down. Its a big dynamic universe makes sense that multiple story events could occur at the same time either exactly or barely overlapping. But then i ended up burning out around the time infinity war was out. Only bothering to keep w/spiderman, shame the mceu didn't get constructed any better than what it is.

[@thedailylifeofthings]

Starting with a Matt McMuscles quote? Always a good start!!

[@kurokiji4729]

About No Way Home; probably my favorite thing was having Willem Dafoe back, he's such a great villan and also actually giving closure to Andrew's spider-man and the reunion between Doc Oc and Toby's Peter was wholesome. Other than that, the plot was meh at best

[@Shukuyou]

As I commented on the previous upload, there are some movies missing: The Punisher (1989 and 2004) The Phantom (1996) The Crow (1994) Judge Dredd (1995) The last two might not technically count as 'superhero' movies, but they still fit in this discussion.

[@noahkarpinski1824]

I thought The Phantom was a surprisingly good superhero movie Also, the costume was TERRIBLE

[@edgemaverik]

Did they mention spawn and hellboy?

[@roxtechs]

Steel, Deadpool, original suicide squad movie,

[@Kekkersboy]

Doctor strange wasn't supposed to lead up to wandsvision. It was supposed to be the lead up to No way home. It was actually supposed to come out the week wandsvision ended

[@leithaziz2716]

39:25 Yes, you can do this well, because Funny Valentine from JoJo Part 7 is a really cool villain with a similar concept.

[@roxtechs]

Well Valentine’s an actual character while Kang is just a concept (Ant-Man) or plot muffin (Loki)

[@mviouscosplay]

Depsite The Flash being a complete train wreck, I'm just glad my dad and I got to bond over our love for Michael Keaton's Batman.

[@willodelljr.4909]

In reference Kaiser's comments at the 49 minute mark, this seems to be the second time studio interference has prevented Sam Raimi from making a potentially phenomenal follow-up for a Marvel Superhero

[@hosvet_animation]

Big art industries have a "small startup with many small projects->build up and exclusion by budget->huge projects->crash because the art has left" cycle. Happened with the old Hollywood studio system, happened again in the 90s with that dark age where most hollywood movies sucked for a decade. It's not about making a bunch of smaller movies, it's just what part of the cycle we're at.

[@2centschange]

See, this is one of the reasons I tend to take issue with these. I get you have your opinions and stuff, and that's fine. But you're the ones that decided to set up a round table on a topic and did very little, if any, prep for it. Lani "Dark world didn't relate to anything!" he says, about the movie that had the unfortunate job of introducing the infinity stones. Most of the movies that people tend to find 'boring' are the ones that actually had to cover the greater exposition of things. Up till darkworld, it was still up in the air on if the tesseract was going to be an infinity stone or a cosmic cube, for example. It was darkworld that had to intro that stuff. 'But they're just going off of memory!' Yeah, but that's their fault. They're the ones that decided to do this video in the first place. That was just one example. It's like why I stopped watching a lot of the anime reviews. "And then X does Y completely pulled out of their ass" about an anime where X was explained, in its own scene specifically about it two scene's ago. It happens so consistently that its hilarious, but not the kind where you feel like subjecting yourself to it for very long.

[@stryke-jn3kv]

I must admit I did raise an eyebrow about how much stuff that they just hadn't watched at all, and would just say some variation of 'I heard (insert other's opinion here)' and the like. I mean I haven't watched Echo either but I also don't make money by talking about issues relating to it on the internet.

[@ShardSpyder]

You have someone there who gleefully admits that he doesn’t watch any superhero stuff anymore, yet still wants to give informed opinions on all the stuff he hasn’t watched.

[@DBZpower198]

If you do want the boy-scout Superman, I'd really recommend you watch Superman&Lois. It's way on the opposite end of Man of Steel, and it feels like one of the better shows to come out of the CW (When it comes to the DC stuff).

[@Strykerclass242]

Oh good! They fixed the audio!

[@oddyevil]

Oh snap y'all fixed the audio quality hell yeah

[@stargazer3424]

All in favor of a Star Wars discussion like this?

[@paulscott2037]

The biggest pity about DC movies is just how passionately some attached to their projects feel about their work only for it to fall apart. Like Ben Afleck LOVED being Batman, and regardless of how you feel about him as Batman I think it's obvious to see that he is having a blast when he gets to be in the suit. Same with Cavill and Momoa. So their movies may be middling at best or outright suck at worst but i can't help but feel bad for them because they clearly love being those characters it's just that something somewhere along the line whether it's executives or the script or the editing or the PR or even just public burnout (or more often a combination of all of the above.) is screwing them over.

[@Influx27]

The crux of Wanda's story as we go into _Multiverse of Madness_ has nothing to do with curses, it has to do with loss, sacrifice, and reality being unfair. Wanda lost her parents to some psychotic war waged with weapons (everyone's hero) Tony Stark made, she lost her brother to the super robot Tony Stark made, she lost both of the only two men who took the time to empathize with her to the infinity war, and she lost her husband and children to protect this town. The only real curse the Darkhold puts on her is the knowledge that there are realities upon realities upon realities where she didn't have to lose anything, where, at bare minimum, everything that led up to her creating her children with Chaos magic never happened. No outpouring of grief, no horrible losses, no terrible sacrifices. Instead, if events had been different, she could have been a simple mom at home with her kids. It's a point of her making terrible sacrifices, and them turning out to mean nothing. It's a point not only of reality being unfair, but also rather malicious; and, just to rub it in, a lot of her problems are ones steming from a man everyone is dead set on praising (Tony Stark).

[@Fatalbeast22]

Im realizing that aside from metal gear, i almost dont agree with stephen on anything

[@rboss5919]

I started Echo. I kind of enjoyed what I watched but I had trouble sticking with it because they started giving her Mystic powers that weren't even hinted at in Hawkeye. I kind of was just more interested in her character when she was a B.A. normal with a disability.

[@jameskingman1227]

1:11:00. I will see I slightly disagree with Scott here, the Snyder cut was never going to be the original product, it was never going to be 4 hours. In terms of the movie he was very lucky he got to make it this way at all, as a director I bet it’s kind of a dream to make something with nothing left on the cutting room floor. I’d be interested to see what his theatrical release version would have been.

[@benjamincook8479]

I believe the original plan was that the Snyder cut was going to be two movies

[@jackforrest6748]

Does the guy on the right like anything? Feel like ive just listened to him complain for nearly 2 hours

[@ericwingate124]

1:13:17 Hey hang on Batman’s entire character arc is realizing that he needs to change. Why would you say that the moment where he changes shouldn’t have come after the consequences of his mistakes? Of course he should have been the one to lead the people out of the flood. I don’t think that writing is muddy at all in that aspect.

[@austinsetser6081]

43:36 I saw echo and it was surprisingly pretty good! Alaqua Cox is real good as a lead and kingpin is kingpin

[@StrawberryBatman]

America Chavez’ backstory is the funniest thing in the entire MCU.

[@amirgarcia547]

For real, it would’ve been so much better if they were attacked by like…idk, a robber or criminal or something, and while Chavez’s powers save them, but in the process she makes her parents disappear as well due to not being able to control it. But nope, she randomly gets scared by a bee instead!🙂

[@Nightwing1933]

You can argue the death of Modern Comic Book Movies If not cinema as a whole different way to look at it, can be traced back to the Batman Returns, it's McDonalds promotion, and controversy around that and the film it's promoting. Then Warner Bros got more hands on with their movies and micromanage more, eventually led to a long string of mostly poor creative decisions, heading to DC to fumble the bag during the MCU's rise to power in the 2010s, and giving marvel no real competition. Leading to DC (and other studios) trying and failing to be like marvel, and the eventual bloat, oversaturation, and quantity over quality that the MCU has been suffering from as of recent and DC rebooting Again with James Gunn at the helm. And this domino effect All started with some Batman Returns Happy meal toys.

[@overtherenowaitthere]

I wish the critiques would go beyond, it’s bad, it didn’t make sense, it’s good, it’s flawed, it’s bloated. They messed up this character, this character wasn’t used to their potential, this movie is good, but not good enough that I care about the main character or want to see that character in anything ever again. like maybe some examples or scenes that bring those thoughts out. Saying the criticism only goes so far when it can’t be nailed down and shown why it evoked that feeling. Like how can you call a film good, not meh, not average, you enjoyed the film. A film that failed to make you care about the protagonist and failed to create a compelling enough narrative to interest you as to what happens next for the character. Good movie though 😂

[@R.-.W]

Well to be fair they have gone deeper into a lot of these movies in the Talkcast Podshows and mentioned why exactly they didn’t like this or liked that, I guess this was just a general overview so that’s why they didn’t dive too deep into a movie.

[@Nelsito99]

48:32 Isn't the last scene of wandaivision show that she's still trying to get her kids, which would be set up for multiverse of madness

[@saychaysarchive7065]

I'm going to organize my thoughts in a list for the sake of... organization: 1. Earth's Mightiest Heroes pulled of Secret Invasion perfectly. You find out it is happening, deal with the suspense, pay it off, and then you have to deal with the consequences and its great. The show is just retconning stuff and thats boring. 2. Earths Mightiest Heroes also did Kang right, and he didn't overstay his welcome. He's teased at the beginning, has an arc, cameos a few times, and comes back for one episode later on. 3. I don't know how I feel about their chances of fixing the Multiverse saga. I like the concept, I like Kang, I like a lot of the characters they set up in this phase (at least in the comics). But it just doesn't have the same soul that the first three phases did. So much of it feels corporate as hell. 4. Yeah, definitely MOM's biggest problem is that they didn't let Raimi be Raimi. I like it a lot (I'm very easy to please), but it's so not perfect. 5. Love and Thunder totally botched Gorr by not letting the God-Butcher butcher gods and wasted Christian Bale, and I agree with Scott about the Realm of the Gods. I think Taika nailed Ragnarok but Love and Thunder just... god damn. 6. I was an angsty edgey teen and I thought Superman was boring and lame, so when Man of Steel came out I was all in. Then I grew up and I fell in love with actual Superman and I realized I was so wrong as a kid. 7. I have seen four Snyder movies. I think I'd gave the best of those four, BvS Ultimate Edition, a 6/10. 8. Aquaman was fantastic. Costuming was incredible, action was great, loved the plot, performances were good, the locations were fantastic. 9. The Suicide Squad is so good, but also I wish DC would stop trying to make it their Guardians of the Galaxy. It failed. You needed to stick it the first time and you didn't so quit it! 10. The first time I saw The Batman, I rated it like an 7 but after sitting on it, it went up to like a 9. 11. Because of the brand confusion point, I think the only actor/character combination that should carry into the Gunnverse is Xolo as Jaime. I would like Margot and Jason to come back but I don't think they should return as Harley and Aquaman. 12. The VFX debacle is horrible. I've not had an issue with any of the effects in anything but my god thats not something anyone should have gone through. 13. Did not know the Watchmen show was a sequel to the comic. I assumed it was a sequel to the movie. 14. James Gunn Superman is the most exciting upcoming movie for me right now. 15. Yeah, as time goes on I find Filoni to not be doing it for me. I love Clone Wars and Rebels, and Mando seasons 1 and 2. Season 3 was meh, TBoBF was meh, Rogue One was fine, Solo is fine, I refuse to commemt on the trilogy. I didn't see Andor or Ahsoka because I'm burned out. Everything coming up has me cautious at best. 16. Honestly yeah, they need to stop spending so much money on these damn movies. So frustrating cause some of these Marvel movies would have been successful if they weren't hundreds of millions of dollars to make.

[@denverarnold6210]

Almost two hours about super hero movies, and i don't recal even a reference to Spiderverse. This needs a part 2.

[@eilonitis]

Can you please upload videos like that as podcast to different apps like spotify?? You called it a podcast and this is not the first video on this channel that is pretty much a podcast. This is something that I would love to listen to when for example I am driving and I can't be the only one who think that.

[@JoseRuiz-yh2eh]

Tfs question: why do superhero movies suck now? Tfs answer: - because they all do. Tim Burton is boring, Forever is better because of how bad it is. Superman is boring - old or new one? - old, the new one plain sucks.. what else?.. oh! Watchmen, which sucks just as much as the source material, like Sin City…

[@ShardSpyder]

“Because . . . reasons!”

[@jinchu9999]

Honestly, my hot take is that they lost me after Civil War, because that story focused way too much on the conflict between the leading men, not on questioning how much value these guys actually add to the world, something the original comic course corrected at the very last minute. The opportunity was there for the taking. Most of these characters can barely be described as heroic, because they rarely get to help people as it is, let alone connect with them in any way. Instead, they are usually out for themselves or the ones very close to them, making their sacrifices seem to just add more drama to their relationships. The moment that film ended, I got so taken out of the experience, I had a very good idea of how the rest of the overall story was likely to play out.

[@TheAllSeeingEye2468]

Wasn't this already uploaded?

[@preparegto213]

This version got clearer audio apparently

[@Primal_Smoke]

Yes it was

[@Cassner]

It was taken down while I was watching. It was super awkward.

[@TheAllSeeingEye2468]

@@Cassner that can happen? I never had that happen to me. I mean I did have a video not let me comment but that was due to the coppa turning on. If s video I was watching got taken down I was still able to watch it all the way through

[@aiwash2766]

This video has proved something to me, I had no idea who these guys where as people I only saw em as the characters they played but now seeing them as the people they are I can safely say Nick is the only one i vibe with cause he’s more chill more nice meanwhile the other two are condescending and straight up narcissistic, Scott specifically calling almost everything trash like his opinion is the one that matters the most is so damn off putting, gonna stick to just watching DBZA and not further taint the characters image by watching these type of videos

[@ShardSpyder]

Scott had unfortunately always been like that. The way he talks to people online wreaks of condescension and smugness that would instantly get your ass beat if you talked to someone in real life like that. Everything from him feels like a lecture he is giving that is a round about way of just letting you know how stupid he thinks you are. It was especially evident in the commentary tracks, where it felt like he was stopping every other minute to go “Hey idiots in the comments, that thing you thought it was, it actually wasn’t and fuck you for trying to call me out on it” Someone in that friend group really ought to check him on that shit.

[@brendantoungate8287]

Thor Love and Thunder's music choices ticked me off. Guns n' Roses makes no damn sense for a movie about space vikings, especially when you had Dio for the credits (which would've fit the movie much better). Just a shocking lack of attention to detail.

[@PitBoss_90]

Suprised you didn’t touch the Spider-Verse movies in this discussion. You could make an argument it does Spider-Man better than the MCU(and I don’t have any real complaints about MCU Spidey)

[@FinalBossTV]

Kaiser, in those last few minutes, respect.

[@CasualKing21]

Peacemaker was a better Secret Invasion than Secret Invasion lol

[@-PVL93-]

Shit writing is what happened to both Marvel and DC cinematic universes. The sooner both companies realise this is where all their issues stem from, the sooner they can start fixing and repairing. Until then their attempts at creating blockbusters can all crash and burn for all I care

[@SunMoon6426]

Anime already has the over saturation problem

[@DokkyDok]

1:34:25 This doesn't happen as often now due to the increased conglomeration of media & entertainment companies. Studios used to make money by financing movies and hoping the movie profits. That was the basic business model. Obviously that model still exists, but the people in charge of companies (that are in charge of other companies) don't really care *how* money gets made, only that it does get made. You can make a one-off successful movie and that's all fine and good. Or you can establish a franchise that sells merchandise, brings people to your streaming service, establishes spin-offs, sets up TV shows & video games, creates content for ad tie-ins from other companies within your conglomerate, makes sequels a safer bet, and so on. The people making decisions are more detached from the movie-making part of movie-making than ever before. This determines what movies get made & even impacts the creative decisions in them.

[@goblinsrevenge]

29:32 - Unfortunately that constant event problem has now affected the Star Wars comics too with four events back to back. With all these stories basically being crammed into the small time gap between Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Originally with the MCU I would say it was ok with the films becoming somewhat more connected as time went on, as they were three phases in and in my eyes the films were more like an episodes of a series at that point. But then the Disney+ shows came flowing in and now they really are expecting people watch a lot of content just to keep up with that's happening but at the same time not really having a direction in where it's all going. Even with Echo they say it's ment to focus on more "grounded, character-driven stories" and are less about impacting the larger MCU narrative, but it still a spin-off from Hawkeye and creates set up for the next Daredevil series.

[@TheRozenKnight]

Multiverse Stories can be entertaining if put in some proper thoughts and they actualy are different outside of superficial stuff.

[@mindwipe8788]

Darkman (1990) by Sam Raimi, is not to be over looked as part of the early Superhero movie boom which continued through the 90’s until the second Superhero movie boom of the 2000’s The “Werewolf By Night” special was also really good and the way it payed tribute to the vibe of a classic Universal monster movie made me so happy.

[@keinchi]

I’m pretty sure James Gunn Suicide Squad was a loss because of when it was released

[@noomloom535]

I wont lie, ever since that episode of the commentarys where you guys talked about stuff while waiting for the video to load, i been craving one of these type of videos from you guys and would love a revival to the podshowtalkcast

[@matthewrichards4078]

18:30 Ike Permutter n his 'crew' were a BIG reason why phase 2 was so down compared to 1. he almost got the cast to quit from thor 2, avengers 2, iron man 2/3. Feige was put in for head of marvel, Ike Perlmutter was moved to comics- where he almost killed the mutants and made them into inhumans, AND was the spearhead for that show, and agents of shield. when he was let go, his protege bob Chapek took over for iger. And put back in ALL the hurdles that were removed for Feige's promotion, and the main mcu writers could ONLY do loki, wanda vision, Multiverse of madness, hawkeye, guardians of the galaxy 3, Shang chi. the writers from the shows NOT those listed were teamed with writers from captain marvel/Black Widow. They did echo, ant man 3, marvels, she hulk, ms marvel, secret invasion. Their last work before being let go was the attempt at dare devil : born again- that killed off all the side characters from netflix shows and none from the netflix villain gallery outside of king pin.

[@Loonkleclip]

This should have been a "super hero movies/tv shows" ranked

[@themothreborn]

Lani's some kinda wizard who can get me to actually watch the ad read

[@jamesrosengrant8675]

Secrete invasion is such a hard thing to do without a huge overseeing team for all the projects. There would need to be a list of the people decided to be skrulls before any project starts. And the audience would need to be made aware of at least some before the in universe other characters are aware. Otherwise Scott is 100% correct in saying it would feel like we lost character development

[@AmericanBrit9834]

Combination of declining quality/higher standards from movie-goers (an ok film isn't really passable anymore), over-inflated budgets, over-saturation from DC and Marvel (mostly Marvel), very difficult to jump in without doing lots of homework, lack of original/good ideas, heavy-handed/clunky style of addressing social issues, seemingly little care for the source material/questionable handling of some characters (Hulk is a big offender of this), and the general passage of time/fads.

[@Feedback72]

1:12:08 I thought I was the only one who was bothered by that lmaoo how did 2 detectives miss that 😂

[@ashdalbey4700]

Since I wanna share my thoughts. I think in the 2000s marvel started putting down snow balls to make it so as one got rolling, they would get something big, and grand, and interesting. However, as these movies have built off one another without being amazing, there is now a massive snowball that takes 20 years of movies of varying quality to fully understand. Endgame should have been a soft reset where they returned to character centric movies for a few years, with each being as spot on as possible, so that when they threw their action figures together the audience could have a fair bit of investment. Instead, there is aimless world building with minimal character work and unneeded continuations of stories that were either done, or were fine in stasis.

[@animegamer262447]

Okay, now can someone fix the Taka Cut Commentary playlist 28-29 is missing. Please and Thank You.

[@adblue8955]

The DCEU is probably the biggest missed opportunity in the history of film from a financial perspective. It could have been just as big as the MCU but they weren't patient and they meddled with it too much. They should have realized superheroes were gonna be the hotness for a while and made a bunch of standalone films like marvel did early on. Now it's too late

[@DampWetstew]

The DCEU was just *so* plainly thirsty for a massive cinematic universe. It was a real turn off.

[@Kentrc11]

Not really since they tried Green Lantern as a standalone movie with Ryan Reynolds & it flopped. Viewership fatigue for their standalones then are what MCU is experiencing for some of their standalones now.

[@Shift_Salt]

​​@@Kentrc11 their first mistake was thinking Green Lantern could be their jumping off point. Ironman wasn't the biggest heavy hitter of Marvel, and Green Lantern isn't a total nobody for DC, but Ironman is an easier character to adapt as a grounded start for general audiences while Green Lantern very much is not and isn't as easily recognizable as Batman or Superman. Then when they did make a Superman movie they got a guy that doesn't understand Superman to make it.

[@Kentrc11]

@Shift_Salt Nah GL had no catchphrases, references or memes outside of trolls trashing the CGI mask. GL was shiny & forgettable as a result. Deadpool by comparison is full of those. GL also did not jump to any world building outside of GL Corp. It was very Christopher Reeve standalone having GL as the only hero on Earth. GL was grounded in that GL was military & GL was known through Superfriends & JLU.

[@adblue8955]

Green lantern just wasn't very good. Iron Man was. It's simple as that

[@fat1fared]

My take away from this is that people have been made really bitter towards what Marvel achieved at the start by how fall it has now fallen.

[@SaucerheadTharp]

Stephan comes out with the hottest of hot takes that 1970s Superman and 1980s Batman were boring and bad.

[@matthewrichards4078]

49:55 Jane Foster's Thor run in the comics, AND Gorr the God Butcher, and his sword, Knull- King in Black. 3 entire incredible arcs, WASTED in 2.15 hours. Trying to combine 4.5 years of comics into a 2 hour film was GOING to fail HARD.

[@matthewrichards4078]

58:35 Shoving the best new batman villain into EVERY arc for 3 years-Batman who Laughs made me sick to DEATH of him and hopefully he's kept away for a bit so we can, 'forget' to be reminded! Shit he's a awesome villain o-0

[@joshnunya324]

Dr Strange is my favorite First Solo Film 39:05 He wasnt at Full Power

[@IanTho1]

weird audio click sound at 25:30, headphone users beware

[@Kentrc11]

Social media is up with superhero movies. Every comment section now has a flood of hatewatchers, bots, & trolls to sway potential viewers away from a production, even when the production is good.